Daily reminder that this is how it works

Time travel or not, it's obvious the Loki thing is wrong, else there wouldn't be such a a point of emphasis.

>this, my headcanon, is how everyone should think about it

And you took the time to make a chart too.
You dumb fuck the Ancient One want the gems back because he doesn't want her new reality to be defenseless (see Doctor Strange couldn't win at the end of his movie without the time gem), they travel in different timelines, they say it multiple times for dumb fucks like you.

There is no need to over-complicate it with your autistic head-canon.

Here your kinglyship i fixed it so your retarded brick smooth brain can understand it. I added arrows!

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user. Use your fucking brain for a second here. If just going back in time splinters time, how is it possible in any fucking way for Cap to return the stones?

The explanation was fucking explicit. Removing a stone splinters time. THATS IT. THATS WHAT DOES IT. NOTHING ELSE. Putting it back fixes it. THATS IT.

Theres nothing more to it.

loki's going to show up in GOTG3 in a couple of years and blow you ephemeral timeline morons out

You really need to let go. You're wrong, just stop. You cannot go back into your own past and alter the future.

>And secondly, time doesn't work that way. Changing the past doesn't change the future.
And..
>I don't know why everyone believes that, but that isn't true. Think about it: If you travel to the past - that past becomes *your* future - and your former present becomes the past - which can't now be changed by your new future!

You misunderstood what the Ancient One said about HER reality (hers specifically) being split when you take the stone away from it. She goes on to elaborate that what she means is that it creates a branch of HER reality where they don't have the time stone to use as a weapon against the forces of darkness. The branch that's erased by returning the time stone is that, not "any alternate timelines" but THAT sequence of events in particular. When interpreted this way both the Ancient One and Banner can both be correct about the effects of time travel WITHOUT having to come up with bullshit charts and new terms and rules like time loops and erasing existences and displaced paradox duplicates that the movie didn't explicitly lay out. That's all you. The movie did NOT say it, YOU did. And you're wrong. Accept it.

You have been doing this for some days now, aren't you tired of people telling you to fuck off with your retarded headcanon?

Oh right, don't forget to reply by offending everyone and ofc ALWAYS USE THE CAPS-LOCK, just in case someone was in doubt if you were an idiot or not.

And it is different timelines, get over your idiotic loop theory you are trying so hard to push since it was probably your speculation before the movie came out and you want to feel smart for once.

>>You misunderstood what the Ancient One said about HER reality (hers specifically) being split when you take the stone away from it. She goes on to elaborate that what she means is that it creates a branch of HER reality where they don't have the time stone to use as a weapon against the forces of darkness. The branch that's erased by returning the time stone is that, not "any alternate timelines" but THAT sequence of events in particular. When interpreted this way both the Ancient One and Banner can both be correct about the effects of time travel WITHOUT having to come up with bullshit charts and new terms and rules like time loops and erasing existences and displaced paradox duplicates that the movie didn't explicitly lay out. That's all you. The movie did NOT say it, YOU did. And you're wrong. Accept it.
No you fucking idiot, she says by removing a stone, her "NEW BRANCH REALITY", which is CAUSED by taking the stone, would be defenseless in the event of their failure.

You fucking morons, how is this so hard to get. Captain America would not be physically able to return the stones if they were inherently split timelines because of time travel, he would just keep splitting the timelines.

It's both funny and sad to watch someone so willfully ignorant call someone else stupid.

>>You have been doing this for some days now, aren't you tired of people telling you to fuck off with your retarded headcanon?
user every time someone tries to refute me all they fucking go on about is headcanon

>BUH MUH CAP ACKSHUALLY WAS IN ANOTHER TIMELINE AND SECRETLY TELEPORTE DBACK
>BUH MUH ANCIENT ONE ACKSHUALLY MEANT THIS EVEN THOUGH IT CONTRADICTS WHAT SHE SAID
>*completely ignores the massive flaming logical problem with Cap being unable to actually return the stones if the timelines were split just by time travelling*

Im relaying to you exactly what the movie said was happening. Thats it. Thats all there is to it. Notice how im not trying to explain how the fucking Cap thing worked, im just pointing out what it was and that it happened.

You misunderstand, I understood your scribbles just fine. I'm saying it's pathetically done.

>time travel is the label of one portion of a fucking timeline
>main heading for the timeline is centered directly over and in-between the explaination of the splinter timeline
I couldn't get a child to do a worse job.

>No you fucking idiot, she says by removing a stone, her "NEW BRANCH REALITY"
The Ancient One can see the future. She can see the possibilities that her current reality can take, up to her own death. Is it really that hard to understand that what she meant by a new branch was in regards to her reality in particular, and what would happen to her own reality without the time stone? Of course it is, for you, because you made your mind up and you've dug in to your own stupidity.

>arguing about time travel

look don't think about it, you'll just get a headache, it worked

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But it's fucking simply explained by the movie and this fucking retard is the one trying to complicate it unnecessarily. Alternate timelines that don't effect each other is the baby-proof version of fucking time travel as it is.

>>The Ancient One can see the future. She can see the possibilities that her current reality can take, up to her own death. Is it really that hard to understand that what she meant by a new branch was in regards to her reality in particular, and what would happen to her own reality without the time stone? Of course it is, for you, because you made your mind up and you've dug in to your own stupidity.
Yes thats exactly what she means but that doesnt fucking contradict how the mechanics of it work.

IF they failed, then her reality would REMAIN SPLINTERED, and if it was still splintered thats because the stones werent returned, meaning no defense. But if they're returned, they conjoin back into one timestream, and they'll defeat Dormammu in the future. Thats how it works.

IF TIME THE FUCKING TRAVELLING SPLINTERED TIME THEN CAP WOULD NOT BE FUCKING ABLE TO RETURN THE STONES WHY DO YOU REFUSE TO ACKNOWLEDGE THIS GLARING FUCKING HOLE IN YOUR LOGIC.

>infinity stones and fuckin pym particles involved
>trying to explain shit instead of just rolling with it

Im only trying to visually establish what the movie showed and said wa shappening because these dipshits keep coming up with retarded explanations that are full of holes and dont make any sense.

You're absolutely right, its time travel and pym and space magic rocks, you shouldnt question it because its all bullshit anyway.

Here we go again with the allcaps sperging. This is getting old. I know you're never going to even entertain the possibility that you might have misinterpreted anything, ever, because that's the kind of person you are. That's what makes you dumb. But I'm also not about to let your stupidity go unchallenged and infect others with your ass backwards bullshit about loops and paradox displacement.

ANSWER THE QUESTION RETARD.

IF GOING BACK IN TIME INHERENTLY SPLINTERED TIME HOW THE FUCK WOULD CAPTAIN AMERICA EVER BE ABLE TO RETURN THE FUCKING STONES?

YOUR GOD DAMN HEADCANON BULLSHIT DOESNT FUCKING HOLD UP BECAUSE OF THIS, SO EXPLAIN IT.

So my interpretation:

1. People who travel back in time can bring things or people from the time they went back to with them. This would be the same as going into the future and bringing something back to the past. However in the logic of the film people / objects (that aren't the infinity stones) do not alter the flow of time in any substantial way.

2. But if you take out the Infinity Stones you will do this, since doing so proves a very real threat to the existence of the universe. This is quite troubling considering the current MCU now no longer has Infinity Stones as a means of protecting its universe from greater threats, unless time travel is used again, which will always result is chaos and peril for those who attempt it.

3. Steve Rogers going back to the past is a constant mindfuck for him, since anything he does will not change the future. There may be reality rewriting itself in ways we don't see in Endgame for time constraint reasons. For instance Steve Rogers could find himself in a subtle Groundhog Day situation where if he does anything to change the timeline too much, he'll simply find reality has undone/subverted these changes back to the utmost minimal degree to maintain the future timeline.

OR, you can forget all of the above and use this method for how time travel works instead, not by using in-universe logic, but outer universe logic.

>Audience sees events and understands the basic chronological history of events
>Just as the movies in the MCU are set in stone and can't be undone, so is the audience's perception of those events
>So when Steve Rogers goes back in time and lives out that whole life, it works because it does not contradict any events seen in the films
>Any argument about events that logically should happen, but we don't see, don't matter, because what 'matters' in the timeline is only what the audience sees.
>Literally equating matter of existence = audience perception

the quantum realm was clearly established as being more general than just "time travel"

originally they just wanted any timeline at all that's basically the same but after that they specifically re-rigged the machine to put them in the same timeline they were in before, simple as that

>THEN CAP WOULD NOT BE FUCKING ABLE TO RETURN THE STONES
Of course he can. They're travelling between different realities that are at different points in time. They can travel to that reality, change whatever they want and it sticks, and then they can travel back to that same reality and fix it. The only thing they can't change is what's already happened from their own perspective, i.e. Banner couldn't stop his past self from having gotten the time stone at all after using it to undo the snap. He can only go back to right after he took it and give it back.

Which is what they did, and that erased the branch of that reality that leads to losing to Dormammu.

Exactly. Thank you.

If Thanos traveled into the present and was defeated, how was he able to carry out his initial attack that killed half the worlds population?

Time bubble blah blah I'm a retard

I don't know why i felt compelled to post that.

That Thanos comes from a split timeline, the one that they eventually returned the stones to.

In that timeline, there was never a snap, and their Avengers will never need to time travel or anything.

NO THEY FUCKING ARENT.

>answering with headcanon

Alternate timeline created by removing the stone that isnt the original thanos and that timeline ceased to exist at the end of the movie.

This isnt hard to understand.

But if the stone is returned (which they all were) then there never could even be an alternate timeline. The stones were always returned and always have been. It already happened in the past.

The easier explanation is that it's a weak time travel plot from a silly comic book movie and you're not supposed to think about it this much.

>>But if the stone is returned (which they all were) then there never could even be an alternate timeline. The stones were always returned and always have been. It already happened in the past.
Yeah but he wasnt in that timeline anymore so it doesnt matter.

>The easier explanation is that it's a weak time travel plot from a silly comic book movie and you're not supposed to think about it this much.
This is the correct answer.

Who was the kid behind Bucky at the funeral?

Kid from Iron Man 3.

I'd be fine with you making things needlessly complicated for yourself if you weren't working so hard to lead others astray with your twisting of quotes and made-up bullshit.

What's hard to understand is the part where we see Captain America dancing with Peggy Carter in the past, which means that your post and Banner's dialogue can't both be right. Either all alternate timelines cease to exist, which isn't explicitly stated, or else Cap's actions can change the present as we know it, which is explicitly stated to be impossible.

Trimming the branches never referred to destroying or fusing timelines, it instead referred to repairing timelines that had been deprived of their rightful elements (i.e. the infinity stones), which they could eventually need in order to deal with dark forces down the line (i.e. Dormammu, Shuma, etc.) Cap's mission was to save them, not destroy them.

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I don't think taking the stones dooms a universe because they're needed to stop Dormammu. I think it's more like they're necessary on a metaphysical level for that universe to exist. Saving the universe from Dormammu is just a convenient side effect.

Destroying the stones doesn't get rid of their 'essence', it just prevents anyone from tapping into that essence, so the universe is still ok.

>which isn't explicitly stated
Yes it fucking is. Banner literally says you can erase them by putting the stones back.

>r else Cap's actions can change the present as we know it, which is explicitly stated to be impossible.
Its predestination, a causal loop.

>Trimming the branches never referred to destroying or fusing timelines, it instead referred to repairing timelines that had been deprived of their rightful elements (i.e. the infinity stones), which they could eventually need in order to deal with dark forces down the line (i.e. Dormammu, Shuma, etc.) Cap's mission was to save them, not destroy them.
Is english your third language cheng?

Trimming the branches means you cut the fucking branches off.

He says you can erase the branch [that leads to the forces of darkness winning].

That causal loop is coming out of your ass and looping back into it.

And the Ancient One elaborated on what she meant by "new branch" and was painfully specific. But you're an idiot so you'd rather substitute your own dipshit logic to fill in holes that were never there.

>He says you can erase the branch [that leads to the forces of darkness winning].
Fucking how? Erasing the branch means the timeline is the one you see at the end of the movie where the good guys win.

>That causal loop is coming out of your ass and looping back into it.
The causal loop is what Cap does at the end of the movie, you see him do it.

>And the Ancient One elaborated on what she meant by "new branch" and was painfully specific.
Yes, she was. The infinity stones create the flow of time and removing one causes the flow to split at point of removal. So if she gave Hulk the stone, her new split reality (CAUSED BY TAKING THE STONE), would be left without a means of defending against Dormammu if Hulk never returns it and time remains splintered.

Requestion a version of angry King Crimson but it's an angry Ant Man who doesn't understand how this shit works

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>Erasing the branch means
This is your main problem right here. Erasing the branch means erasing *the specific branch* the Ancient One was going on about. The one she described in her dialogue.

Not just ANY branch. THAT branch. The one with no time stone against the dark forces. Just that.

The branch where a version of reality doesn't have an infinity stone when they otherwise should have had. It's stealing and it leaves that reality vulnerable. The entire conversation in question was about this one precise issue but you're trying to twist the context to suit your theory.

Here's the conversation in context. Remember, none of this need contradict what Banner says about not being able to alter your collective past.
Banner: Please, PLEASE!
Ancient: I'm sorry, I cannot help you. If I give up the Time Stone to help your reality, I'm dooming my own.
Banner: With all due respect I'm not sure the science really supports that.
Ancient: [orange line woosh] The Infinity Stones create what you experience as the flow of time. Remove one of the Stones, and that flow splits. Now this may benefit your reality - but my new one, not so much. In this new branch reality, without our chief weapon against the forces of darkness, our world will be overrun; millions will suffer. So tell me, doctor: Can your science prevent all of that?
Banner. No...But we can erase it. Because once we're done with the Stones, we can return each one to its own timeline, at the moment it was taken. So, chronologically, in *that* reality...it never left.
Ancient: Yes but you're leaving out the most important part: In order to return the Stones you have to survive.
Banner: We will, I will, I promise.
Ancient: I can't risk this reality on a promise.

Notice the way she emphasizes the difference between her reality as opposed to Banner's reality. That's a constant throughout the exchange. When she talks about removing the stone and splitting the flow, she immediately clarifies that she means it creates a branch in her own reality where the forces of darkness win. She doesn't talk about alternate realities being unnatural or fusing timelines, she focuses on what losing the stone will do to her own reality. When Banner reassures her, he says he can erase "it." Which refers to the new branch where Dormammu wins. That alteration is negated by returning a second after that conversation took place and giving her time stone back.

It isn't just ANY split. It's that split in particular that leads to an end of the world branch.

user. You’ve been sperging in all caps for four days. Seek help.

>>This is your main problem right here. Erasing the branch means erasing *the specific branch* the Ancient One was going on about. The one she described in her dialogue.
No, not it doesnt. She was very clearly speaking generally, not specifically.

>She was very clearly speaking generally, not specifically
Good fucking God there is no helping you.

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>but my new one, not so much. In this new branch reality
And that specific line is where your argument falls apart.

New reality. Caused by taking the stones out, and KEEPING it out.

She's speaking generally on how the mechanics work, then gets specific as to why she wont do it.

Fucking the first thing out of her bald ass mouth after she finishes that line is "Now,", as in she's transitioning the topic of conversation over as to WHY she wont give it to him. For fucks sake dude.

If the Ancient One's timeline is the same as Endgame Banner's timeline why didn't she call it "our reality"?

>there are people who can't understand fucking cape movies

What the fuck, people did understand Aquaman and people didn't understand Infinity War, this is going fucking silly.

Because when you take the stone out, they become separate realities. She makes that abundantly clear when she refers to said action being beneficial for his reality, then refers to hers as "new", immediately after explaining how time splits.

Time travel will always cause confusion no matter how well it is explained

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>>What the fuck, people did understand Aquaman and people didn't understand Infinity War, this is going fucking silly.
Yea Forums has been steadily getting more and more stupid.

And giving it back erases the Dormammu wins branch.

Work with me here. Throughout the whole conversation she keeps talking about her reality as if it's always been separate from Banner's. Plus, that moron's theory basically means Banner's wrong about this:

>And secondly, time doesn't work that way. Changing the past doesn't change the future.

>I don't know why everyone believes that, but that isn't true. Think about it: If you travel to the past - that past becomes *your* future - and your former present becomes the past - which can't now be changed by your new future!

When you have to start inserting bullshit about causal loops and predetermined fate when it's been established very clearly otherwise, maybe, just maybe, you misunderstood something. That oaf may not be willing to admit it, but I'm hoping some people can see past their own noses and understand how easy it is to reconcile this by simply admitting that there are always multiple timelines, and taking a stone especially messes them up.

>>And giving it back erases the Dormammu wins branch.
No, christ, dude come the fuck on.

Its one timeline, it splits if you take a stone out, it becomes one timeline again once you put it back.

>Work with me here. Throughout the whole conversation she keeps talking about her reality as if it's always been separate from Banner's. Plus, that moron's theory basically means Banner's wrong about this:
She specifically refers to hers in the hypothetical as new when in reference to him taking the stone out, immediately after explaining what would happen (time splitting) if he did.

>When you have to start inserting bullshit about causal loops and predetermined fate when it's been established very clearly otherwise, maybe, just maybe, you misunderstood something.
Its not inserting anything you fucking dullard. Thats what Captain America does at the end, a closed loop. A causal loop. A time loop. He goes back in time because he was predestined to go back in time.

Nothing about any of this contradicts banner saying you cant change the past, because the past doesnt fucking change. The stones correct the timeline into one, meaning the past doesnt change, and Cap was predestined to go back in time, so he already went back in time, meaning the past didnt change.

You're hung up over that one line even though it doesnt fucking contradict a god damn thing about this, and if anything SUPPORTS it.

>If I give up the Time Stone to help your reality, I'm dooming my own.
>Now this may benefit your reality - but my new one, not so much.
>So, chronologically, in *that* reality...it never left.
>I can't risk this reality on a promise.
They always refer to the realities as separate, including making a distinction between AO's current reality and a new one with no time stone, and Banner promises to fix her reality, to which she says she has to protect her own reality.

How is anyone concluding there's a single one true timeline from this?

>She specifically refers to hers in the hypothetical as new when in reference to him taking the stone out
Except that she differentiated it earlier at the start of the conversation as well.

>How is anyone concluding there's a single one true timeline from this?
Probably from the fact Ancient One uses a single line to represent time instead of two. Strongly implying the only new reality shit happens when you fuck with the past.

Yeah because he's from the future and wants her stone, which would make a split timeline.

Because she explains it as being one timeline that gets split if you take a stone out of its place in time.

They refer to their sas separate because he wants the stone, which would cause their realities to split and become distinct.

Stop using 'time mark' to defend your theory. It's a completely meaningless term.

Yes it's inserting something. No one ever mentioned time loops in the movie. You're inferring that based on fucked up bogus reasoning. A time loop would imply that Captain America has to hide in order to prevent having any impact on history after going to the past, which Banner's explanation says is impossible. You're trying to make an exception that the movie never makes. You just assume it must have because you're confused.

And when she talks about reality splitting into a branch, she just means Dormammu wins branch, as opposed to the Dormammu loses branch she's predicting. That is the split and branch that she's talking about; separate potential versions of HER OWN reality with and without the time stone. I can't say that enough, even if it'll never sink into that dense skull of yours.

>No one ever mentioned time loops in the movie
Obviously not but thats what he fucking does. Thats what what he did is called.

Going back in time because you already went back in time and are going to go back in time is called a causal loop. Thats what he did. Thats why im using the term, because thats exactly what he did. It doesnt matter that they dont say those words, because thats still what he fucking did.

>which Banner's explanation says is impossible
No it doesnt. Cap going back doesnt change anything because he was always there.

>she just means Dormammu wins branch, as opposed to the Dormammu loses branch she's predicting
No she doesnt.

Why would she need two lines when she's only talking about her own timeline? Why would she need to display Banner's when only the change to her timeline is relevant to her explanation?

>Obviously not but thats what he fucking does.
And this is what I mean by inserting silly bullshit to fill holes that never existed.

>Cap going back doesnt change anything because he was always there.
That's the most retarded part. How can he exist in the past before he time travels back for the first time? He can't always be there, it has to start somewhere, and if it starts somewhere than there was a point where it hadn't happened yet, and if that's the case then it contradicts Banner's explanation of not being able to change the future you traveled from.

>>And this is what I mean by inserting silly bullshit to fill holes that never existed.
Im not inserting anything dipshit i'm using the term that describes what was shown.

>That's the most retarded part. How can he exist in the past before he time travels back for the first time? He
Because he always did. Thats why its called a loop. This isnt a new thing and its been considered before as a plausible way time travel could work in the real world were it ever possible, in that you were always going to go back in time because you already did.

It doesnt have to start anywhere, its a fucking loop.

Why would no timestone create a different branch if her timeline is separate? Wouldn't that just be one of the possibilities within her timeline?

Loki taking the Tesseract created a parallel timeline.

>Why would no timestone create a different branch if her timeline is separate?
For the reasons she elaborated on. No weapon, forces of darkness win. Have weapon, forces of darkness lose. A normal path and a branch with no time stone.
>Wouldn't that just be one of the possibilities within her timeline?
Exactly. It is a possibility within her own timeline. The worst possible possibility that must be avoided, otherwise she's failed her duty as Sorcerer Supreme.

She can see the future to an extent so she understands these things. Why is it so difficult to imagine she's speaking in the context of the potential paths her own reality alone can take?

It wouldnt be a fucking branch then retard it'd just be HER separate reality then.

A timeline branches if it starts as one and becomes two.

But then it doesn't make sense to be a branch, it'd be her reality taking one of its natural courses.

The timeline in which Loki stole the Tesseract was already created, there was no changing it.

Original timeline
No Thanos timeline
Tesseract Loki timeline

It looks like this.

It's a branch of her reality, moron. She can see the paths diverge because she's always been able to see the future.
It's unnatural because it's removing something from one reality to benefit another. It's stealing, and in this case the consequences are dire as it places her entire reality on a path to certain doom. And therefore something she must prevent at all costs. Until she finds out Strange is involved in which case, seems legit.

Why do you fucking idiots keep bringing this up?

Did Loki time travel with the stone? Did he? Did he time travel with the fucking space stone?

Did Loki time travel?

Did he?

Did he? Loki? Time Travel?

The answer is no he didnt so it doesnt fucking matter because once the other two are put back, none of that happened. Same with the Thanos shit, that reality never happened, yeah he left it, but once he left it, he stopped being affected by what happens to it.

I was surprised at how much she trusted Dr. Strange. Even Strange himself was still a bit unsure of he managed to go down the one winning timeline.

>It's unnatural because it's removing something from one reality to benefit another.
But that doesn't make sense, if her reality is truly separate, another reality stealing the stone should just be one of the possibilities in her timeline, not a branch.

He can't be on the same timeline though because changing the past doesn't change the future. If he stayed in the past he wouldn't grow old in the original timeline. The ending makes no sense.

user if he travelled back to the 1940s and didnt time travel back, what happened.

Do you think he aged? Like a human being does?

Pretty sure Loki escaping was meant to have him be alive for a later movie.

It's a possibility and a branch. It's a possibility that creates a bad branch, the worst branch.

Why can't separate possibilities create different branching paths that a fortune teller can see? This isn't a matter of fate and destiny and natural order; it's a matter of what can happen and what will happen as a result. I think we're getting too hung up on natural vs. unnatural when the question is between doomed vs. not doomed.

No, because that never happened once the stones were put back. He is still dead.

His Disney+ show is a prequel.

>once the stones were put back

Where do you think Cap went to put the stone back? He didn't go to 2010 New York, he went to that old Shield Lab.

how does putting the stones back before/right after they were stolen reset anything? they'd still arrive from traveling back in time to steal them again. that would only work with the time stone because she willingly gave it to them.

the answer is don't worry about it

He lived for a long time in an alternate history and came back near the end of his natural lifespan to report his success and say his goodbyes to his old comrades. He just didn't appear on the platform because the director thought it'd be more dramatic for him to appear on a bench (and thus fucking confuse the shit out of everyone)

"For us, about five seconds. For him, all the time he needs."

Yeah, and?

Once the time and mind stones were put back, reality corrected itself. Loki didnt time travel with the space stone.

They just put them back where they found them. Like a time heist in reverse, taking place a minute after they stole them in the first place.

Antman still messed with Tony's heart, and the cube still got knocked down and Loki still grabbed it in the confusion.

Ancient One explains it as the stones control the flow (continuity) of time, so putting them back reverts it to how it originally was.

And i think its all the stones because all the stones work off of eachother in a loop, its why the combined gauntlet makes you god even though having 5 just makes you a really strong guy.

Again, once the stones were put back, that never occurred.

These mechanics are fucking weird but thats what they are.

Why does it CREATE a branch though? That makes no actual sense, for a separate reality, it would just be flowing normally, fucked, but normally. A way that makes sense and also conveying it being doomed would just the whole line turning black instead of making a branch.

Did Cap stop Tony and Antman from doing their failed plan in the first place? He might have, I guess.

You make a lot of assumptions about it.

It's a flaw of the movie if it's not clear, consider no country for old men it's 100% clear without doubt that he does murder her off-screen because it's built up well any lack of clarity here is the movies fualt.

no but what about like stiwell and co thinking cap is hydra, loki teleporting, everything with thanos et al.

No, no user you're not getting this.Once the stones were back and he left, reality fixed itself. Their entire time travel excursion never happened.

Because once you put the stones back, none of that happens. Reality becomes one timeline again, so it just becomes what it used to be.

>Why does it CREATE a branch though?
Because that's the premise, dumb shit. I swear, suffering existential crises because fictional rules trigger you should be an automatic ban.

You didn't pay attention to Banner's explanation.

Yeah, all the time travel mechanics are pretty easy to understand. It's just that final scene that muddles everything and confuses everyone.

You mean how he says you cant change the past which im literally saying is whats happening and what the stones are responsible for enforcing when you put them back into their intended points in time, they fix history and prevent the past from being changed?

Are you retarded? Are you a fucking sperg?

It doesn’t matter what side of the argument you’re on, there’s no way that’s true.

>alternate history
It was the main MCU, it was a predestination loop.

But that doesn't make sense, retard, saying it's a whole new separate reality as soon as they travel is pure headcanon.

Dumbfuck, they explain this in the movie: you don't go back into your own past, the effects ripple out into a new set of futures, not into your own past. She mentions the stone because it's a big change to her own future if they don't have it.

Loki didn't, but they did. Loki needs to steal the Tesseract so they travel to the 70's for it.

Then how come they didn’t show him zap out again? Wasn’t wearing a suit either.

Why do you retards keep focusing on that Banner line as if what im saying contradicts it?

You cant change the past. The stones prevent you from changing the past. Take a stone out? Time splits into two timelines. Put it back? Then you cant change the past, so its just one timeline again.

Cap doesnt change the past either, he was always there, its a loop.

Time travelling doesn't make you go back into your "own" past. Banner explains this in the movie. This isn't back to the future or a time loop like Terminator. He explicitly says so, you incoherent mess of a shitposter.

All of that is negligible in the grand scheme of those individual realities. The major change they're concerned with correcting is the Stones existing at all in their proper timelines, so that they're available in case they're needed in that reality. Primarily regarding the Time Stone, but there's no telling what course the other Stones may take down the line, and for better or worse they should be there to fill whatever role they are to play.

So Hydra thinking Captain America has joined them? That's just a quirk of that reality that the natives will have to deal with. Loki running around with the Tesseract? That's a problem for that version of Thor to deal with. Thanos? In at least one reality he's dead before even collecting the stones, and in others he's going on about his business. But none of that is our Avengers' job to fix: They just have to return what they borrowed before it can be missed, and those realities become doomed by one thing or another. e.g. Dormammu.

Yes okay and?

Who gives a shit what Loki did, it doesnt matter and wont change anything. The tesseract is still in 2012, so it didnt cause a splinter.

Banners explanation was moreso in perspective terms than actual literal terms, but even then, no you're still wrong. Because it was always his past that future him would go back in time. Its a fucking loop, dipshit. He's not changing anything. Nothing changes.

It does contradict it. You can't create loops because you can't move into your own past. When everyone who watches but one retarded cunt on Yea Forums say it works just like DBZ time travel, they fucking mean it, because they explicitly say so.

user.

THEY DONT EXIST ANYMORE.

Then take it up with the fucking writers, asshole, because thats what fucking happens.

ANYTHING else. Saying ANYTHING else is just fan fiction headcanon.

>Why does it CREATE a branch though?
She calls it a branch in relation to what she predicted would happen otherwise. That's the distinction she's trying to make here. Branch isn't the grandiose term you think it is.

You're wrong. I said you were wrong before, you're no less wrong now, and your allcaps sperging is embarrassing to watch.

Except he's returning the stones to pasts which differ from how things went down in his own timeline, so they can't really fit into the MCU line at all, you brainlet fuck.
He can't go into his own past, he can't create loops, they eliminated these paradoxes by utilizing these rules for timetravel.
The only way he could go back is if there is always a set of identical realities where a Cap goes back to another identical reality, which is a recursive mess, but still requires branching timelines for each permutation created.

Attached: 848.png (659x525, 205K)

user, saying im wrong is saying the movie is wrong, because all i'm doing is explaining what the movie is telling you.

I'm not adding anything. I'm not filling in gaps. I'm telling you exactly what the movie presented.

Why would it be though? If her reality is separate as you say, the timestone theft should be one of her predictions for her reality. It makes no sense to actually split of like that if her shit is its own thing.

Holy christ you fucking retards why do you keep saying this shit, yeah who gives a fuck that changes happened? The stones are all that matter, the past will correct itself back into one timestream.

They explain this in a scene dedicated to telling you how it works. Fucking frogposter retard.

I love how an autistic manchild typing on all caps misinterprets a movie and keeps yelling at everyone. When the entire world says "buddy, you're being stupid", it might be time to sit down and take a chill pill.

Attached: 1554648163995.jpg (403x394, 34K)

You're misunderstanding the movie. The movie is fine. I'm calling you fucking stupid, which you are. Because you're so up your own ass you can't fathom a different interpretation of dialogue that doesn't require extra bullshit on your part to prop it up.

user, all i'm doing is telling you what the movie said was happening. Thats it. Nothing more, nothing less.

I can fathom it, its just the shit you retards are saying doesnt work.

Split timelines just from travelling back means he cant return the stones and some dialogue just outright makes no sense. Old cap secretly for realsies ackshually being in an alternate past then overshooting his time travel to the future and thats why he didnt land on the platform is fanfic retard bullshit. Banners dialogue is consistent with the things ive told you. I've been saying exactly what the Ancient One said was happening.

The irony in you saying that last part is palpable.

>a scene
Oh, that scene you made up in your head?
She was talking about Dormamu, which would've been a major change and was stopped with the stone she was protecting. She wanted to prevent a major negative in the flow of events.
The stones going back into 2014 aren't gonna fix Thanos and his goons going to mainline 2023 are they? Or Loki escaping in 2012? Hmm, I wonder.
Nowhere, I repeat, nowhere do they say that returning the stones erases all their actions in these timelines.

>>Oh, that scene you made up in your head?
Im talking about the scene where she makes a giant orange glowing line and tells you explicitly "the stones make time flow like this, you take one out it fucks it up and makes two timelines"

The Dormammu shit comes after when she explains WHY thats a bad thing. If her timeline was already separate, then it wouldnt be a fucking branch, it would just make her timeline a bad timeline.

Banner says changes made won't affect your timeline. Changes can be made. Guess what happens to those changes? New timelines.
Baby thanos dialogue bit, it's not hard. Engage your neurons.

>Why would it be though?
Why wouldn't it?
>If her reality is separate as you say, the timestone theft should be one of her predictions for her reality.
It is. And she sees the results of that prediction and what it means for her reality. In this case it creates a particular split where there's no time stone to stop Dormammu later, as opposed to the other prediction where they still have the time stone.

Remember that it is the duty of the Sorcerer Supreme to protect their reality. To her, Banner trying to screw with it for his own gain is just like any other extra-dimensional entity trying to do the same, so she has to stop him to prevent disaster and keep things going in a good way, as opposed to a bad one. Ergo, the new (bad) branch.

Yet they both refer to their realities as being separate, she explicitly says it helps his reality, not hers. And we have the baby Thanos dialogue, where Hulk explains that alterations don't impact the "original" timeline. And we know the Ancient One has explicitly acknowledged a multiverse in her previous appearance.
And...
You are a retarded piece of shit.

>Why wouldn't it?
It shouldn't be a split in that case, it should still be the singular path of her reality.
>It is. And she sees the results of that prediction and what it means for her reality. In this case it creates a particular split where there's no time stone to stop Dormammu later, as opposed to the other prediction where they still have the time stone.
The split implies it's the same reality though.

And you keep taking shit out of context to justify your broken fucking logic that doesnt actually work with what the movie showed was happening.

CAP

DID NOT

ALTER

THE TIMELINE

He would age in an alternate timeline. He wouldn't be in the original timeline.

Am I? Am I really? I guess we'll find out soon.

>It shouldn't be a split in that case, it should still be the singular path of her reality.
It's a split because she can see the future with and the future without. This is the point where it diverges, at the loss of the time stone to a separate reality.

The split implies that her reality has an expected path that she must defend at all costs, and an alternate path that she must prevent at all costs.

Of course Cap altered the timeline. They all altered the timeline in just one day. What makes you think him staying for the remainder of his life wouldn't?

But then shouldn't every prediction be a branch? It makes no sense otherwise.

For fucks sake I hope so. At this point it would be like God descending from heaven to have someone in an official capacity elaborate on the setting's time travel and put even some of this bullshit to rest.

Wrong, the prime timeline remains intact

Okay so why doesn't Strange just see the outcome of every battle

Yet he was. To say otherwise is headcanon.

user you keep pointing out snippets of different shit and going "well that means"

No, i sourced all instances of them referencing how it works and showing how it to figure out it out. Im not adding anything to it like you, i'm just retelling it so people understand it better.

What im saying sound stupid? Well dont blame me, blame the fucking writers, i didnt come up with this shit.

>Wrong, the prime timeline remains intact
Nah. The entire movie wouldn't make sense if it did like Nebula killing her past self would erase her from the original timeline. Original timeline theory is stupid.

in NetHack, each floor is only generated when you reach it for the first time, but once you do reach it if you leave and return you get the same floor you generated earlier

this is how timelines in the MCU work

Other lesser quirks in the flow of history don't matter to her. She was only focused on one aspect, the time stone, because of its singular importance to her reality and its continued existence.

She wasn't being as general in her explanation as many think she was. Even her specific mention of the Infinity Stones creating what you experience as the flow of time refers to a specific event at the end of the Doctor Strange movie, where the time stone is used to introduce what we experience as the flow of time into Dormammu's realm in order to defeat him.

We need to stop thinking in broad terms and remove the concept of "meant to be" as in predetermined destiny from our minds. Her concerns were much more narrowed down, focused only on the difference between time stone and no time stone.

Its not a theory, you idiot, thats what the movie says is happening. That nebula was from a temporary reality that stopped existing once the stones were put back.

>She was only focused on one aspect, the time stone, because of its singular importance to her reality and its continued existence.
>
>She wasn't being as general in her explanation as many think she was
She literally said "The infinity stones", not the time stone, she was referring to all of the infinity stones acting in unison to create the flow of time.

So the past is fixed, the present is being made and the future is in flux?

Hilariously enough, even articles About the time travel take different sides of this argument.

thewrap.com/the-time-travel-rules-of-avengers-endgame-quantum-realm/

This article takes the position that the time travel creates branch realities, and the only reason the infinity Stones need to be replaced is to protect branch realities that will still be there if the stones are returned.

>polygon.com/2019/4/26/18518923/avengers-endgame-time-travel-loki-alive-captain-america-old

This article says that only the taking of a stone can create a branch reality, and that returning the stone to where it was taken undoes the branch reality.

So not even the people whose job it is to explain stuff like this have a clear picture of what’s going on.

Nah, you're stupid. Just kill yourself.

That doesn't change what I said at all. All of them play a role in timespace, and introducing the flow of time into Dormammu's realm is literally what happened in the movie. Are you implying that's a plot hole in Doctor Strange because he didn't have all the stones when he went into Dormammu's realm?

The point is, the stones are required as a weapon for a reason. There are particular threats they counter. Not because losing any of the stones would inherently break reality.

The first article is correct, the second article is wrong and probably written by the ignoramus that made this thread.

>i cant prove him wrong so i'll tell him to kill himself.

Well done.

>>That doesn't change what I said at all. All of them play a role in timespace, and introducing the flow of time into Dormammu's realm is literally what happened in the movie. Are you implying that's a plot hole in Doctor Strange because he didn't have all the stones when he went into Dormammu's realm?
user.

All i said was what the character in the movie said was how it worked. She said all the stones together create the flow of time, and removing any one of them will fuck that up. She didnt specify just the time stone.

You’re saying caps lock autist is a writer for Polygon?

I know what the character said. I posted it myself earlier. And she said removing any Stone causes a split, and then elaborates on what that means specifically in regards to losing the time stone, which as we both know amounts to "forces of darkness win."

Our disagreement is whether she was concerned with a split in her own reality, leading to an alternate bad end path different than what she foresees otherwise, or if there's only one true fated timeline and the stones prevent any divergence in it (e.g. killing baby Thanos would cause a paradox which would then have to be corrected by the infinity stones). The latter of those requires far more assumption and added explanation outside what the movie directly states, and therefore I believe it is incorrect.

I'm saying it wouldn't surprise me. He certainly has the passion and dedication. This is the third day he's made threads to this effect.

How did Cap return the Soul stone? Like, I get that maybe Red Skull found no issue on taking it back, but how did he get to that foreign planet on his own?

How does past Thanos turning into ashes in the future not fuck the timeline, again? Or does it mean that taking the stones through time is the only thing that causes alternate timelines, so Thanos disappearing in the past doesn't make a difference in the 2014 timeline? Or do they just don't care because if Thanos is dead it just means that 2014 timeline avengers would have an easier time, and future avengers just think it's better that way?

How did Nebula shrank Thanos' ship and also return to the future?

I don't intend to be smartsy, I'm legit curious.

>incapable off even hypothetically considering he's wrong
>automatically assumes its the same person because they both disagree with you

Seems about right. You got issues.

Oh i see.

QR in addition to time travel is also capable of space travel. They have the Pym now, they can figure something out.
I'm still confuse about this so no comment.
Past Nebula gave the Pym Particles and the quantum band taken from present Nebula to Thanos. I'm sure he has some scientists reverse-engineer those.

That means so much coming from this thread.

Attached: 247.gif (360x270, 1.63M)

I saw Captain America in the 1950s in New York yesterday. I told him how cool it was to meet him in person, but I didn’t want to be a douche and bother him and ask him what the implications to the timeline were for him staying in the past to vigorously fuck Agent Carter.

He said "Oh, like you're doing now?”

I was taken aback, and all I could say was “Huh?” but he kept cutting me off and going "I can do this all day" and explaining to me that he couldn't interfere with 9/11 or the Kennedy assassination in front of my face. I walked away and continued to go about my business, and I heard him chuckle patriotically as I walked off. When I tried to cross the street I saw him talking to Hank Pym with like 15 Pym particles in his hand without any need for them.

Hank was very nice about it and professional, and was like “Steve, you need to use these to return the Infinity Gems.” At first he kept pretending to not be a man out of time and not hear him, but eventually turned back around and started handing the particles back to Pym.

When Hank refused one of the particles and started blocking Steve's hand multiple times, he stopped him and told Hank that he had already returned the stones “to prevent any chrono-spatial anomalies,” and then turned around and winked at me. I don’t even think that’s how time travel works. After Hank took each particle and put them in his pockets and started to explain time travel, Cap kept interrupting him by motorboating Peggy's choice titties really loudly.

Attached: 1556430671820.jpg (1536x2048, 392K)

I suppose the first one make sense, just give cap some tubes and the cordinates and he should be able to get to all of the Stone locations and times.
I'm on a bit of disbelief about the reverse engineering bit because if that's the case it'd be silly for Tony and Bruce to not make a bunch of Pym particles themselves. But I suppose that's as good of an explanation as we're getting.

I'm not normally into 3D women, or even 2D breasts, but god damn.

Attached: Want05.jpg (422x691, 66K)

>How does past Thanos turning into ashes in the future not fuck the timeline, again?
If caps lock autist is right, only removing the stones can actually cause a branch reality, meaning when Cap returned the Power Stone and the Soul Stone, he undid that reality 2014 Thanos was from.

If the other autist is right, and the act of time travel itself causes a new timeline with its own chain of events that the Avengers caused, and returning the power stone and souls stone to the point they were taken would possibly go unnoticed by that Thanos, as he’s waiting for Nebula to beam him to the future. As long as that still happens, that means there’s a version of events with the power and Soul stones returned, but no Thanos.

Well, Rocket did say to Bruce (or Tony, I don't remember) that he's only a genius on Earth. So there might be people out in space more capable than them. But yeah, good point. Hank is always going on about not giving any particles to Stark so I thought Tony would be capable of understanding them himself. Guess I was wrong.

lmfao

Going back in time doesn't change anything in your present since the past cannot be changed. It creates a split timeline(days of future pass) or temporal timeline( think Donnie Darko). Why is it so hard to understand that the ancient one didn't wanna give the stone because her timeline says doormamuuu will come since she understands its an event that will come as it came for doctor Strangelove and she needs it so her timeline doesn't become a losing(days of future pass bad end) timeline
is it so hard to understand

It's the final scene with old Cap that convinces everyone it's the same timeline. That scene mucks everything up.

What? Nebula not disappearing means the prime timeline is intact, you dumb fucker. Cap experienced his life in an alternate reality.

maybe its another timeline, the main timeline being part of the timeline that has an old cap in it or who gives a fuck. the last scene doesn't invalidate everything else explained in it.

So, bald sorcerer supreme said that without infinity stones, their timeline is fucked, right? What does that mean for the main timeline, whose stones were btfo by thanos? Is reality gonna fall apart or something?

Except he wasnt. And Nebula doesnt if you follow the logic of a sort of pretzel shaped lifetime for the splinters.

>everyone talking about how the movie timeline doesn't work.
>is explainable.
>nobody looking at the fact you can alt universe hop and take alt infinity stone and use it in another world when canon is this is impossible

Doctor Strange 2 will probably deal with that question.

For the last time, comics canon is not movie canon. You can’t use comic book rules to explain or complain about how a different continuity with different established rules works.

Maybe they are only destroyed physically ("reduced to atoms"), but their energies are released into the universe in doing so. In order words, they still technically exist, just not in concentrated forms.

Its not even the time travel, you have morons who don't understand why Thanos switched plans and why Black Widow jumping off the cliff by choice gave the soul stone.

Aquaman
>Why did Oceanmaster need to fight the other kingdoms to attack the surface?
>Why was the sub needed for Oceanmaster's plan?
>Who are the seven kingdoms in Aquaman?

Endgame
>Why did Thanos switch plans?
>Why did Black Widow killing herself net a stone when it wasn't Hawkeye throwing her off?
>Why did Captain America return all the stones with one time jump?
>Why didn't they get more pym particles from Hank?

All of these are explained with only one viewing of the movie and you don't even need a triple digit iq to get it. The last one is understandable if you watched any of the Antman movies.

>>>Why did Thanos switch plans?
I feel this is especially egregious because he straight up just tells the audience why he's switching plans and yet somehow theres still people who are so fucking dumb they dont get it.

Yes it fucking does. The only way Nebula killing Nebula works is if 2014 Nebula was not in 2023 Nebula’s past.

None of these questions are difficult and none of them require major thought and yet people don't understand them despite being told them in movie. Thanos straight up says why he has changed the plan. Red Skull keeps saying "a soul for a soul". Cap and Ironman straight up jump from past New York to further past military base. Hank straight up says he doesn't like other people especially Tony Stark. He also states he wouldn't give pym particles to anyone else.

>it's a lamp
So "Endgame" is just viral/subliminal marketing for the upcoming "Aladdin" film?

Yeah, because she was an alternate Nebula from a temporary timeline.

I still think Loki fucks off with the Tessarect for some alternate reality, the emphasis on it is too much for it to not be the case. Yeah technically Cap returning the Time/Mind Stones should make it so the Space Stone never gets knocked out to the ground for Loki to take it, but come on.

>It creates a split timeline(days of future pass) or temporal timeline( think Donnie Darko).

Except the movie doesn't explicitly say that. Hulk just says that changing the past won't change the future - which suggests that they're travelling back to an alternate timeline/reality, but doesn't explicitly say it.

Then the Ancient One says that alternate timelines are created by removing the stones from their correct place in time - which suggests that time travel by itself doesn't create or involve alternate timelines, but again she doesn't explicitly say this.

It seems pretty clear though from the conversation between Banner and the Ancient One that she understands the mechanics of time travel better than he does, so I think we're meant to treat her explanation as being more accurate than his non-explanation.

It’s crucial to your film that in your formulation of time travel, changes to the past don’t alter our present. How did you decide this?
MARKUS We looked at a lot of time-travel stories and went, it doesn’t work that way.
McFEELY It was by necessity. If you have six MacGuffins and every time you go back it changes something, you’ve got Biff’s casino, exponentially. So we just couldn’t do that. We had physicists come in — more than one — who said, basically, “Back to the Future” is [wrong].
MARKUS Basically said what the Hulk says in that scene, which is, if you go to the past, then the present becomes your past and the past becomes your future. So there’s absolutely no reason it would change.

Original timeline theory DEBUNKED. Stop trying to push it, it's stupid.

Wdym by plan?

Because it's still a sacrifice

He didn't remember when they went back to the 70's you can time jump with just particles and a suit

Hank hates stark and was snapped

So basically, it's exactly how Hulk explained it with zero caveats. Not that main timeline guy will give a shit, but still it's better than nothing. Thanks, user.

Thor recovers his hammer, Mjolnir, by taking it from an earlier timeline. So that raises the question —
McFEELY Does that screw that other Thor?
MARKUS Is he killed by Dark Elves?
McFEELY I think we’re leaning on, when you just take a baseball mitt, you didn’t ruin that kid’s life. When you took Mjolnir, we accept that that movie happened. Because time is irrefutable.
MARKUS You can make any number of what ifs. The Dark Elves would have arrived, intending to get the Aether. It’s what they came for and it was no longer there.
McFEELY So they build a paradise together.
MARKUS They all got married. [laughter]

The movie is about the Avengers destroying other timelines to save their own timeline. The Loki show could be about the time he escaped with the Tesseract in New York.

How do they explain old Cap?

It's a plot hole. He had to have come back from an alternate timeline where he married Peggy and came back to the original timeline. It's the only way to keep it consistent with the rest of the movie.

I'm really interested in that too. Could wind up putting this to bed harder than anything else. God I hope they don't give some cop out shit about how it's ambiguous or a mystery

>Original timeline theory DEBUNKED. Stop trying to push it, it's stupid.

That quote doesn't debunk anything. They're just reiterating what the Hulk says in the movie. They haven't explained the mechanics of how it works, which is what the argument is about.

His reappearing not on the platform and without his suit would be a minor plot hole, and I could forgive them for doing it purely for the sake of the shot.

But the other option would be a plot grand canyon. So hopefully its addressed in an interview soon with a definitive, unambiguous response.

are you stupid? How do you not undersand something so simple?
You cannot change the past. Trying to will create a new timeline, but in the original eerything happened the same way.
So they never attempted to change the past.
Did you even watch the film? They only changed the future, so they did not create any new timelines.

HE MARRIED PEGGY CARTER YOU FUCKING IDIOT.

>They're just reiterating what the Hulk says in the movie.
>between Banner and the Ancient One that she understands the mechanics of time travel better
So better than the writers too, then? I knew it wouldn't make a dent.

>They haven't explained the mechanics of how it works
What do you think entire post is about if not how time travel works?

exactly, which is exactly what the OP tried to explain using an image, but you still do't understand, somehow.

Oh look, it's retarded.

and that didn't change his past you fucking idiot, so he did not create a new timeline.
None of the events of the past movies have been altered by cap remaining in the past, everything happened the same, so no new timeline.

I made an image in paint to show how cap's timeline works along with the main one

Attached: timetravelamerica.png (1196x442, 26K)

>and that didn't change his past you fucking idiot
Are you retarded? Lol.

It's the part where he tacks on a bunch of bullshit which complicates the simple explanation of there being multiple timelines by default, each of which need to be saved by returning their Stones before disaster strikes

>authors: you cannot change the past, any attempt will create new timelines
>OP: this is how they never altered the past so never created new timelines
>you: blrhhagh ghhbkll i'm fucking retarded bgh

>marrying someone in the past doesn't change the past
Dumbass.

But they explicitly state (the writers and the movie that they do create new timelines. Derp.

That's not what they said, shit for brains. There was nothing about avoiding creating timelines. They said it's impossible to alter your former present because the past becomes your new future.

no but you are. What part of his past changed by marrying peggy?
Think hard about this and explain it to me
there are no multiple timelines by default, they're only in the ain one, and prevent the creation of new ones by returning the stones at their original point

Kill yourself, moron.

Don't make him go back to MS paint and draw another kindergarten picture that agrees with what he says! He will, so you better watch it!

but it didn't. Future cap did nothing to alter the events that had already happaned to him by living in the past.
which is what will cause a new timeline to be created shitforbrains. In timeline A there is the powerstone an things happen in a certain way. You travel back in time and remove the powerstone. Now things happen differently without the stone. But you cannot change what already happened, so removing the stone will give birth to the split timeline A2.
They returned the stones, so everything happens the same way, so there are no split timelines.

No. Even the writers ignore your single main timeline theory when discussing how time travel works in interviews. How deluded are you?

nice argument.

but they don't. The whole point of the return trips is avoiding creating new timelines. The film spens a lot of time hammering dowwn how they must return everything how it was to not create split timelines.
How the fuck do you get confused about something that they repeated so often?

Remember that bit where Banner says 'Don't worry about your interactions in the past, though - you can cause things to happen, as long as they're things we know already happened.' ?
Yeah, me neither.

I sure as hell don't

>but it didn't. Future cap did nothing to alter the events that had already happaned to him by living in the past.
It's not just about what happens to him, you idiot. It's what happens to everyone else around him while living in the past for 80 years.

What if he lived in Carter's basement the whole time, and she kept him a secret, like E.T?

Did I just blow your mind?

The baby thanos bit completely tanks your argument though. They don't even mention the past being an "alternate past" they just say that nothing you do in the past will effect the present you came from. The only way the timeline creates branches is when the infinity stones are removed, and putting them back fixes that. The dilemma that the AO presented to Banner was a moral one, can he risk all these timelines they would create by taking the stones to be doomed if he fails to complete the mission and out the stones back.

The only alternate timelines are the ones that take place immediately after an infinity stone is stolen, which cease to exist once they replace them

>Steve is hiding down in Peggy's basement
>Keeps a diary like Anne Frank
>Sometimes goes weeks without sunlight
>Skulks in the dark like Gollum from LotR
> "Daance, daaaance preciousssss"

Fuck your charts, Tony.

Hey, that's a low blow. Tony's smart.

>Even the writers ignore your single main timeline theory when discussing how time travel works in interviews.
Source?

It's extremely obvious we're meant to think Steve lived out his life in an alternate timeline since he had an intact duplicate of the shield to hand over to Sam that they pointed out was so hard to make another version of/just repair a few scratches only Tony could do it.

So you repeat what they said and then tack on your own explanation as though it logically follows when it doesn't. Half assed doublespeak aside, they meant what they said and nothing more. Which is, if you go back to the past, that becomes your new future. As in a version of events that is new, that doesn't alter the of version you came from. Stop trying to taxi your theory onto the back of that. It's not fooling anyone.

See . They're questioned about their formulation of time travel, and just reiterate what Hulk explained, with zero (0) mention of a single main timeline, or special rules or exceptions or any of the other junk he's trying to add in.

>Peggy buys Steve the last particular type of pizza or something from a deli
>The woman who would have bought it goes home and hasn't got the pizza her husband wanted
>He's an abusive bastard who beats her up and breaks her arm
>Police intervene, she goes to a shelter, they divorce and don't have the kids they were going to have
>One of those kids was somebody like Timothy McVeigh
>Now a major terrorist incident doesn't happen, and dozens of people are alive when they wouldn't have been
And that's just from buying a pizza!

>The only way the timeline creates branches is when the infinity stones are removed,
NO. Nobody ever says this. Ancient One shows how missing stones would be very bad, but that doesn't mean other things won't cause branched timelines as well. Baby Thanos being one obvious thing.

Ancient One literally says this and demonstrates this with the neon timeline graphic. There's one timeline, then the branch that comes off of it by removing the stone, which goes away when the stone is put back.

Baby Thanos getting crib murdered by Don Cheadle wouldn't effect IW Thanos because IW already happened in the present our heroes left.

The only one inserting more than the plain words that were said and insinuating is you my friend.

Nothing they do in the past effects their future, UNLESS they remove a stone from it's intended place in time. First fact, killing Baby Thanos doesn't stop the snap. Second fact, removing stone creates a new timeline that would have it's own devastation that Banner and the rest would be responsible for main happen if they were to fail in returning the stones.

Plain fucking English, said on screen, very nearly ver batim.

But Rhodey could continue to live in that dead baby Thanos timeline if he wanted. Everything after that is his new future. Hulks explanation does not disallow this, and clearly that's the explanation we're meant to follow since it's even backed up by outside interviews.

Spare me. The writers could appear right in this very thread and disagree with your suggestions and further insinuations and you'd still try to be right at any cost.

>Nothing they do in the past effects their future, UNLESS they remove a stone from it's intended place in time.
Grabbing Thor's hammer from the past benefited them plenty.

The timeline would correct itself apparently. They don't explain in fine detail what happens when you just STAY in the past and keep living, because otherwise we wouldn't all be confused about Cap. But thats the only thing we CAN insinuate about, which IMO means that you're still essentially in the midst of your time traveling, and depending on if you do attempt to change the past and live with it, you'd end up in a new future, but the people you know are still waiting for you to come back, meaning if Don Cheadle just lives in the Baby Thanos dead timeline he'd still have to come back at some point and when he did his present would be the same and if he attempted to hop back into time to where Thanos was dead he'd have to do it all over again. Cap as far as we know didn't change anything and therefore was able to live into our present day. .

Otherwise the rules are plainly stated in my previous post. There are no existing alternate timelines unless created by the removal of an infinity stone. It's not perfect but it's a working rule until we get a definite answer from the writers about Cap's ending and it's repercussions.

So did taking the stones, but the snap still happened.

Whatever you say dude. I'm not the one contradicting the literal dialogue. If the Russos say it works your weird way then so be it, they're even more hacks then for failing to explain it correctly.

That's rather convoluted, isn't it?

>Thor recovers his hammer, Mjolnir, by taking it from an earlier timeline. So that raises the question —
>McFEELY Does that screw that other Thor?
>MARKUS Is he killed by Dark Elves?
>McFEELY I think we’re leaning on, when you just take a baseball mitt, you didn’t ruin that kid’s life. When you took Mjolnir, we accept that that movie happened. Because time is irrefutable.
>MARKUS You can make any number of what ifs. The Dark Elves would have arrived, intending to get the Aether. It’s what they came for and it was no longer there.
>McFEELY So they build a paradise together.
>MARKUS They all got married. [laughter]

They explained it fine. I and plenty of others understood it and it's quite simple. Multiple timelines exist. Boom, done. You're just bizarrely resistant to it, because you think the ancient one was speaking much more generally than she was about the importance of the stones in protecting her reality, or the others they visited.

Isn't all of it ?

That's the thing, no. Not really.

No. they didn't explain it the way you're telling everyone it "is"

They never mentioned multiple timelines until the AO said they would be created by taking the stones. That's how they wrote their explanation and it's not my fault you decided to come up with your own reasoning for how it all works because you can only comprehend that theory.

>They never mentioned multiple timelines
Banner. "Your new future."

>Using a magic particle to shrink down to a secret realm smaller than atoms that allows you to traverse time as long as you use a reverse Mobius strip pattern, and a "time gps".
>Not convoluted to begin with.

Come on man now you're just being a douche.

If one explanation is a little hokey, a follow up explanation can be just as. Maybe it shouldn't be, but it is what it is

Was about to ask for the same thing, thank you.

Because it's not a past you can effect, it's just events happening in your present for you. That does not say "it makes a new timeline"

again man, you're the one insinuating.

Tonny Starko

It doesn’t matter how capt got back, what matters is the capt he replaced by going back. He stole his past selfs (or an alternate timelines) past in order to live it.

He is no longer innocent.

>He stole his past selfs (or an alternate timelines) past in order to live it.
That guy wasn’t using it, he’s stuck in the ice.

The script reeks entirely of some teenage Rick and Morty fan writing an Avengers fan-fiction.

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If you or someone you love wrote this, well done

The way they explained it was straightforward enough for being a kids' movie. Quantum realm is time travel, changing the past doesn't change the future because it's new and separate. Taking stones places realities on a vulnerable branched path, giving them back fixes it and erases the branch. All literally stated with no further explanation needed. No loops, no displacement, no magically erased events. No need to insinuate or add anything.

>because you think the ancient one was speaking much more generally than she was about the importance of the stones in protecting her reality, or the others they visited.
To be fair to that user, it seems like the majority of posters I've been reading over the last few days took AO's 'diagram' to mean that only the stones made new timelines (as if somehow it would just be magically impossible to kill baby Thanos, instead of that also creating a new timeline).

But how did Cap get out to outer space? Also how could it possibly gone smoothly with meeting Red Skull when returning the soul gem.

So you agree with the fact no alternate timelines exists except for the ones created by removing infinity stones from their intended place? Because that's what the simple explanation implies, and what I've been arguing for.

I don't think it's all that convoluted. My point was that if you think my explanation here : is too convoluted, but everything else is perfectly peachy then your standards are wack and inconsistent. It's all based on a mess of a premise.

>First fact, killing Baby Thanos doesn't stop the snap.
Remember when Banner said it would SOMEHOW, mystically, be impossible to kill baby Thanos? No, because he didn't. He just said it wouldn't change the present. This is because it would create a new timeline.

What if he made another time travel machine in the timeline he went, then used it to return to the main timeline before the end of the movie?

She demonstrates, yes, that removing the stone(s) would create a new timeline. She DOES NOT say that nothing else could do it. She uses the stones in the diagram because she has a stone and that's the (big) change they're debating at that moment.

It doesn't create a new timeline, and it's not magically impossible. If you kill baby thanks and then go home, nothing will have changed. If you kill baby Thanos and stay, you'll still be in the middle of a time travel visit, and anything you've done won't matter when you eventually hop back. If you travel to the past and change nothing, you'll just live to the present day even though you'd still be technical traveling time and could do a superfluous "hop" back through the quantum realm and onto the platform.

So you actually think that, what, travelling to baby Thanos is just impossible because he isn't an infinity stone?

Except theres no new timeline, it doesn't exist when you go back through the quantum realm. That's why it doesn't effect the future.

I figured the only way it fits is if she was just talking about her own timeline, which based on her wording leading up to and after that diagram seemed extremely likely. From there it all clicks real simple.

I can see how someone might have missed it but I feel like OP is going so far in attempts to justify it that it becomes ridiculous.

>If you kill baby thanks and then go home, nothing will have changed. If you kill baby Thanos and stay, you'll still be in the middle of a time travel visit, and anything you've done won't matter when you eventually hop back.
So you'll be living in a timeline that DOESN'T EXIST???

When the fuck did I say you cant travel to baby Thanos ? I said if you kill him and stay, you still have to go home eventually and when you do that "future" doesn't exist and you're right back in the present you left.

>it doesn't exist when you go back through the quantum realm. That's why it doesn't effect the future.
See? Shit like that.

As soon as you leave it, yes, it doesn't exist and for all intents and purposes never did. It's inconsequential.

So this is a new rule you just came up with on the spot?

Exactly. Thank you.

/thread

I don't agree with you, no.

Then the stoneless timelines, lacking the big cosmic significance of the stones, should be astronomically insignificant!
But ignore that debate, your 'timelines that do exist, but then just collapse to nothing only because you left' theory is just silly.

...shit like that ...what... Exactly?

We've been over this, what exactly happens when you do fuck with the past and just try to stay hasn't been fully explained in detail unlike the other rules of the time traveling. This is the only thing I'm willing to insinuate on and it's with logic based directly off the dialogue of the movie and the facts stated. It's the only way the 2 separate and equally important statements (1. no changes in past effect future, 2. removing stone creates branch timeline) work together when faced with the question of what happens in the scenario we are discussing where Don Cheadle crib murders Thanks and sticks around.

It's literally the only time words like "alternate reality" and "timelines" are thrown around, so it sound like she was being pretty specific to that situation especially when she explains that the infinity stones literally CREATE the FLOW of TIME.

They do matter because they would be the only time that timelines would exist even after leaving. They would be independent timelines, split because the stones have been removed. The stones create the flow of time.

>which complicates the simple explanation of there being multiple timelines by default

The only problem with this 'simple explanation' is that there isn't a single line of dialogue in the film to support it.

>When the time travelers leave, the entire alternate universe never happened
How convenient. Basically they're stealing stuff from single-use alternate universes.
>Cap lived his entire life in an alternate universe that was destroyed the moment he returned.
Also fucking convenient.

Basically this is not time travel, it's just people going to disposable alternate universes that cease to exist when they leave, as long as the infinity stones are restored.

Why even call it "time travel"? Just call it "alternate universes that get fucked up if you take their infinity stones, and cease to exist if you let them keep their infinity stones".

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Fucking thank you

Oh and "their timeline was erased but they still exist because they're not in it" so where are they from? If their timeline NEVER existed, they're from nowhere. If their timeline exited but was destroyed, then the "heroes" are much worse villains than Thanos for destroying entire universes.

The plothole is that they can't be returned properly

>a cube
>a staff
>a sludge

Hulk on how time travel works.
>If you travel to the past - that past becomes *your* future - and your former present becomes the past - which can't now be changed by your new future!
What else can he mean by the past becomes your new future? Sure as heck not that nothing you do matters because it'll be magically erased. There is no way to reasonably infer that from his statement.

AO obviously thinks her version of reality will remain and needs its time stone for a reason.

>It's time travel, it's either all a joke or it isn't.
He's right. This whole movie was a joke.

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>How convenient. Basically they're stealing stuff from single-use alternate universes.

Yep, that's why it's the winning plan. Because it works, because it was written that way.

>Cap lived his entire life in an alternate universe that was destroyed the moment he returned.

As long he truly changed nothing he didn't have to leave the timeline, and arrived in our present day, meaning his loop works for him without breaking the rules. IF the writers acknowledge he was always Sharon's husband in secret (IF). Otherwise, yes it is convenient that he got to love the life he always wanted and didn't have any consequences for it, and the wife and life that got erased was already over.
And call it what you want, it's what we got. People bitch if you use time travel and then bitch more when you try to tweak classic time travel to have less plot holes because you don't write out a fucking PowerPoint to go alongside the movie for you called "my movie's plot: for fucking retards"

Nah, the attempts to eliminate and trying to correct timelines is more akin to Stein;s Gate than anything.

>See . They're questioned about their formulation of time travel, and just reiterate what Hulk explained, with zero (0) mention of a single main timeline, or special rules or exceptions or any of the other junk he's trying to add in.

They also don't mention how alternate timelines are created everytime you travel to the past, or say anything that supports this 'default multiple timeline' explanation which some of you keep pushing regardless of the fact that there's nothing in the film to support it.

Yup. That's why OP's "timeline ceases to exist when stone is returned" is retarded.
And "2014 Thanos came from a timeline that ceased to exist" is equally dumb.

Just keep ignoring literal facts from the movie user, it doesn't make you less retarded. If Thanos 2014 wasn't from a reality that doesn't exist anymore upon returning the stones, then IW wouldn't have happened. Which it clearly did.

See: As an added bonus, see how the AO opens her discussion with Banner by treating their realities as separate from the get go
>I'm sorry, I cannot help you. If I give up the Time Stone to help your reality, I'm dooming my own.

>And call it what you want, it's what we got
But it's not. It WOULD have been, if that's what the movie said. But the movie said that timelines keep existing and the stones are required not to make them cease to exist, but to "keep them on the right track."

So it's not time travel at all, because you can't go back to your own history, just the history of some other universe that may or may not be identical to yours.

That's not what the movie said you are making up your own interpretation dude.

I'm not ignoring facts from the movie. I'm saying that the line "2014 Thanos's reality ceased to exist" is retarded. Because 2014 Thanos came from SOMEWHERE. So either the heroes destroyed an entire universe and they're way worse than Thanos, or that universe continues to exist and OP is wrong.

Or maybe his altered timeline just continues from that point without him since he died earlier, and it doesn't affect IW happening in our reality because of what Banner explained.

>That's not what the movie said
Magic orange sparks lady clearly tells Hulk that her universe keeps existing with or without the stones, it just turns bad (black) without the stones or continues to be orange (good) with the stones.

It's exactly what the movie said.

Because she's from fucking 2012 and he's from 2024. The second she gives him the Time Stone her future is a new reality than Banner's and won't cease to be a separate reality until she gets it back at the same time she gave it to him.

Until she outright sent him away without the Stone she was staring in the face of being in a new branch reality.

Yup, that's what I said but user misinterpreted.

No she says hers becomes a new branch timeline. The orange is the WHOLE flow of Time created by the stones.

"Clip the branches"

>The second she gives him the Time Stone her future is a new reality
She said that before giving him the stone, right at the beginning of their conversation. Different realities. Not different points in the same reality. Can you not read what is clear as day?

It stops existing because they return the Stones. Just like the Ancient One said they need to do to all the branches they create by removing stones. Ver fucking batim.

>The orange is the WHOLE flow of Time
Nope, the orange is her flow of time and it turns black if the stones are taken away. "I'm not gonna sacrifice my universe for yours" or whatever. I'll download the movie and give you an exact quote so we can settle this.

Because she's EXPLAINING what will HAPPEN. she does not say, "you are here in X timeline, where I am aware that it is distinct from yours at this very moment"

The branches in that particular timeline being a path to destruction without the stones to combat forces of darkness. Give stone back, that branch is erased because that timeline is no longer defenseless, and is back to an unsplit path where they always had the stone.

>Remember when Banner said it would SOMEHOW, mystically, be impossible to kill baby Thanos? No, because he didn't. He just said it wouldn't change the present.

I remember Banner saying all this.

>This is because it would create a new timeline.

I don't remember Banner saying this because he didn't. There's no dialogue in the film that states this. This is just your explanation.

She literally says the infinity stones create the flow of time and indicates the orange line flowing from the stones as one timeline that splits when a stone is taken

It is impossible to do a time travel plot well. It is impossible to include time travel and time manipulation in a story that is not simultaneously autistic and destructive to the health of the narrative. The mere mention of time travel permanently taints a narrative. It cannot be fixed. Merely breathing a word of it is a point of no return.

You cannot prove otherwise. You cannot convince me of otherwise.

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Reaching so fucking hard

That's subjective. I think it was done just fine.

>It is impossible to do a time travel plot well.
Back to the future did it.

That's not whats up for debate. We know the timeline where she doesn't have a stone to goes to Strange to defeat Dormammu doesn't exist anymore. The debate is whether the AO Banner is talking to is from another "universe"/timeline to begin with. Which is fucking stupid because we have no dialogue supporting that.

>It is impossible to do a time travel plot well
The only logically correct time travel plot is a causal loop.
Another approach is alternate universes, but then is it really time travel if you just go to an alternate universe? I think not.

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>I remember Banner saying all this.
Fucking where?!

Because she goes into this conversation immediately assuming there can only be that negative outcome, a stance she herself revokes once Banner mentions Strange. She herself assumes this can only result in splitting the timeline in nasty ways UNTIL she hears of Strange's gamble. She even says Strange wasn't in the wrong, she with all her preconceived assumptions is in the wrong.
No alternate realities, just their own past they almost diverted into new timelines. Cap isn't even on the platform at the end of the movie people come on.

No wonder OP is campaigning so artistically hard for it. Even though it makes no sense here.

I think it can work in comedy form, In anything serious, like this movie, it sucks complete ass just about always. Characters getting stuck in time loops however make for great stories and you can't change my mind.

Gonna keep waiting on this

>and Banner promises to fix her reality, to which she says she has to protect her own reality.
Remember what he said:
>>With all due respect I'm not sure the science really supports that
He's just playing along with her logic so she can give her the stone.

>Implying you're fucking not

I'm not the one literally inserting meaning into the AO's words that ISN'T there.

I'm telling you she means the exact words she said with no "implications" that she meant more.

>Implying you're fucking not
>He's just playing along
Ahahahaha

When he literally tells Don Cheadle that killing Baby Thanos won't do anything

Did it though?

It was not.

A comedy does not require cohesive plot or consistent rules about time travel or avoidance of paradoxes.

Alternate realities is the version of time travel I loathe the most, and it's becoming way too common to include in stories because every hack on the planet wants to do something cool with time travel but can't be bothered to think it through. So just make it traveling to alternate worlds. Oh and please ignore that you aren't fixing anything just abandoning your failure of a world and telling everyone in it they can fuck themselves while you have fun with their dopplegangers. Shh shh shh please to not point out inconvenient things please.

For one thing,

: is not me

And for two,

You're still the one inserting more meaning into AO's and Banners words than what were actually spoken and shown.

Explain this:

I know that wasn't you, I just think it's funny the people arguing with me say I'm the one reaching, and literally the same second someone's implying characters don't mean what they say.

Yes.
>A comedy does not require cohesive plot
But BTTF had a cohesive plot nevertheless, even if it wasn't needed.

>I figured the only way it fits is if she was just talking about her own timeline, which based on her wording leading up to and after that diagram seemed extremely likely.

But if she's just talking about her own timeline there was no need to draw the picture or explain the effects of removing the stone. She could simply have said "If you take the stone, this timeline will be left without it" rather than "If you take the stone you will create a new branched timeline, in which there will no longer be a time stone".

No.

There's too many uncomfortable questions about the particulars. The rules of time travel itself don't work within their own logic. Changing the timeline only seems to effect either of them when it's convenient to present it as a dramatic threat. It doesn't matter cause it's just stage play. It's supposed to be entertaining and dramatic. Not gritty and real

If you put it back, the timeline does not restore itself retard, you then create a whole new timeline where the stone was taken then brought back.

>The rules of time travel itself don't work within their own logic.
But it does.
> Changing the timeline only seems to effect either of them when it's convenient to present it as a dramatic threat.
The alteration of the timeline always work in the same way.

>What else can he mean by the past becomes your new future? Sure as heck not that nothing you do matters because it'll be magically erased. There is no way to reasonably infer that from his statement.

The only inference you can reasonably malke from what Hulk says is that any paradox you create when you time travel - such as killing Thanos as a baby - would have no bearing on the future you just left. He doesn't attempt to explain why this should be the case and he certainly doesn't infer that parallel realities or alternate timelines are involved.

I have explained that before. She mentions that also in regards to the Stones being a powerful weapon. Have you forgotten that Dormammu was defeated when Strange used the time stone to introduce the flow of time to Dormammu's realm? Do you think it a coincidence that she happens to describe EXACTLY what Strange will eventually do with the time stone, right before going on to characterize the stone as their greatest weapon?

It's a reference by the writers to how it was used in DS, and the preface of her overall argument on why any reality needs any of the stones to defend against dark forces due to their enormous power.

no

But those two statements are the same, the only difference being one is stated with dramatic flair and references the character's ability to peer into multiple possible futures.

You provide no examples.

Becomes your new future

>As an added bonus, see how the AO opens her discussion with Banner by treating their realities as separate from the get go
>>I'm sorry, I cannot help you. If I give up the Time Stone to help your reality, I'm dooming my own.

Because - as she goes on to explain - if she gives up the time stone, a branched time line will be created which she won't be able to protect. It's only the act of giving up the stone that creates that alternate reality.

Well let's see. Every time that:

>DOC I'M STARTING TO VANISH WHAT THE FUCK
>But all my memories of my life remain utterly unchanged even when it's clear the entire lives of everyone in my life went completely different

You're either effected by the change to your own timeline or you're not. You can't have it both ways.

Again you're insinuating more by her words than what she is actually fucking saying. Take a stone, create a timeline. Die with stone before taking it back like she assumed would happen, and her timeline sustains and is bad. Banner offers to return the stone and clip the branch, but she doesn't trust just his promise until she hears that Strange out this whole thing in motion. There is no inherit multiple timelines.

Banner thought that he could interfere with the past and then restore it by going back. The Ancient One though said that if you take the stone, you then create a timeline where the stone isn't there. If you go back and put the stones back, you then again create another timeline where you have 3 captain america's one normal, one from the past to steal the stone and one from the present to put the stone back.

Also let's not even get started on the timeline where Gamora and Thanos don't even exist, and the Starlords never become a thing which results to the complete dominance of the Golden Race and Pirate lords.

This movie was the most retarded thing that ever existed.

Which doesn't mean anything regarding "new timelines" it just means that's those events you experience in the past are your present and future.

Yes, and getting the stone back puts her reality back on track, erasing the bad path by returning to the good. She also ends the conversation by saying she can't risk her reality as well, before Strange is brought up.

But she says that it creates a new timeline, it is fucking oxymoron to say that thing. Oh and don't give me that bullshit that Strange from the future set this thing in motion, because the Ancient One sees everything, so she couldn't have not seen this.

>becomes your new future
>doesn't mean anything regarding "new timelines"
That's just dumb.

Yea Forums it is your job to rewrite the rules of time travel all narratives will use from now on. Writers cannot disobey even if they wanted to. If you simply refuse the task you will be shot and granted an instant death. If you try to ban time travel as a plot device, you will be shot in the stomach and treated to a slow agonizing death as your bowls infect your bloodstream. However, your decree will stand. No story can ever contain time travel again, and they can't use workarounds like traveling to suspiciously similar alternate universes either.

The gun is already pointed at you. What do you do?

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>Take a stone, create a timeline
Then she goes on to explain why, and why that's a bad thing in this case. Pay attention to the whole conversation.

She literally didn't see that that had happened in IW. Banner telling her that Strange surrendered the Time Stone to Thanos was new information to her. That information is what made her confident that Banner and the Avengers could in fact win and get the stones back, thereby beating Thanos and clipping the branched timeline she would be forced to live in if Banner failed. Watch the goddamn movie again and pay attention to it this time.

Take the gun and fire.

Alright here's the dialogue between orange bald lady and green naked man:
Orange: I'm sorry. I can't help you. If I give up the time stone to help your reality, I'm dooming my own.
Green: With all due respect, I'm not sure the science really supports that.
Orange: [makes a sparkly orange line in the air] The infinity stones create what you experience as the flow of time. Remove one of the stones, and that flow splits. [evil black smoke line diverges from the sparkly orange line where the stone was removed] Now this may benefit your reality, but my new one--not so much. In this new branch reality, without our chief weapon against the forces of darkness, our world would be overrun. Millions will suffer. So tell me doctor, can your science prevent all that?
Green: No, but we can erase it, 'cause once we're done with the stones, we can return each one to its own timeline at the moment it was taken, so, chronologically, in that reality, it never left.

From this we learn:
1) Different realities exist whether or not you time-travel to them.
2) Different realities CONTINUE to exist whether or not you return the infinity stone you took from them
3) Things get turn to black smoke if you take an infinity stone, but if you return it it they keep being sparkly orange.

The term Green uses, "erase it", is inaccurate. The black smoke reality never exists IF they return the stone. But the rest of the orange reality, that's not "every timeline", that's just the timeline that would have been if they didn't take the stones, and continues to be if they return the stones.

So really, this movie's version of time travel is alternate-universe-travel that has no effect on the past of the original universe.

It also means that nothing ceases to exist, and the universe that 2014 Thanos came from still exists, and it continues to exist from 2014 onward without Thanos.

Attached: bald orange woman.jpg (953x1300, 110K)

Take the gun and shoot OP

This is correct.

How? He is saying that you are that going to the past would be your future, because you're experiencing it in your present. Anything that happens to you just ahead of your present is your future. Therefore if you plan to go to the past and are actually gonna do it, the past will become your future.

No fucking other timelines mentioned.

HOW is that new information to her, she has already seen that in her future until death. So the momment the went back in time and "infltrated" said timeline she knew everything that would happen. Instead of cutting off Banner in his every fucking breath, she seemed all amazed and in awe after she heard that Strange gave the stone. That is complete and utter bullshit, not only that but the time loop that Banner created by saying that he would come back and bring the stone back.

New future where you killed baby Thanos isn't a new timeline.
War is peace.
Freedom is slavery.

Except that's all wrong, and you've misunderstood yet another comic book movie plot.
It's like you are the smartest dumb motherfucker on Yea Forums.

She explains how it'd be different, and how it'd be an actual existing timeline with the removal of the stone. She does not say that she's in an already existing alternate timeline that will be screwed, she shows herself diverging from the main timeline who's flow is CREATED by the STONES

So essentially they didn't went back in time. They literally created a whole new fucking reality as if they are gods. You are making it sound way more retarded than it should.

Dude don't ask me how, the movie showed it being legit. I didn't write this shit I'm just telling you what happened and that your headcannon doesn't matter.

In a momentary lapse of judgement, you forgot to spend several decades training at the secret ninja academy to gain your naruto powers before this critical moment. You find yourself unable to summon the inhuman speed needed to snatch a gun from someone already poised to fire. You see a flash and hear the gun go off and feel yourself slump to the floor. You barely manage to utter your last words before you die.

>B-Believe it..

Your task is passed to another.

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That's not a contradiction. Quite on the contrary, it firmly establish that time change doesn't take effect immediately. As long as he hasn't vanished, there is no reason his memories should be affected.

And nothing in the movie establish he has a full grasp of his memories while he is vanishing.

That's how I understood it, too.

This. At the MOST, the destruction of the Stones might allow the spawning of alternate timelines past that event, since they no longer exist to keep the timeline integrity intact.

>But those two statements are the same,

They're not the same.

The Ancient One didn't say "We are already in a parallel timeline and I can't let you take the stone because this timeline will need it."

What she said was "If I let you take the stone a parallel timeline will be created and I will be unable to defend it." The clear implication here is that a parallel timeline has not yet been created - but it will be if she gives Hulk the stone. If they were already in an alternate timeline there would have been no need for her to say this.

>Except that's all wrong
Except it's literally what the movie says. Everybody's confused by the word "erased". It's not erased. It just never happens. Like if I kill myself as a baby in an alternate universe, my alternate self is not erased, he just never existed.
They don't create any realities. There are infinite realities and you can just go to them and take what you want, and if you're nice enough you can return what you took, but you don't have to.
There are realities where Thanos snapped, and there are realities where Thanos went to another reality and died before he could snap.

He wakes up in his changed timeline and blatantly acts unaware of the events that lead to his parents being not shitty wastes of space. Much less their old bully being their servant. His memory clearly does not reflect the changed history.

the point of this fucking thread isn't to repeat the fucking words from the movie, but to discuss how wrong it is you fucking imbecile, get off that high horse you are riding on r*dditor.

Yeah, they're going to different timelines. They didn't create them, but they can affect them. They just can't affect their own past. It's not as confusing as you think, just use your head.

Its as if it never existed when you step back through the quantum realm to present day, so it might as well not have existed, it's incosequencil and therefore the only timelines that were stated to be ones that would DEFINITELY exist are things that do due to the removal of the infinity stones from their places, and those ones CEASE existing ones the stones are replaced.

Why is a snap the prerequisite to activating all 5 stones?

but having a reality to go in, grab a stone "grief" it the way you want and get the fuck out is some Japanese Isekai poor as fuck story telling.

>Its as if it never existed
That's fucking wrong, faggot

>If I let you take the stone a parallel timeline will be created
No. She says, and I quote:
>If I give up the time stone to help your reality, I'm dooming my own.
The problem is that the writers chose some really bad phrases, like "that flow splits" and "erase it" which lead you to believe something is being created and destroyed. But the rest of the conversation makes it clear that nothing is created or destroyed, just that bad things happen if you take the stones, and bad things don't happen if you return the stones.

nah dude. You either go back in time, or you create a new reality. You can't have both. Banner and Tony made a machine that goes back in certain timelines and the Ancient One started talking about realities. Make up your mind

No the point of the thread is to get retards to stop saying they "know" the movie works different than how it was written because they like the idea that there are inherently multiple timelines better.

The point is that they are NOT reality hopping, they are time traveling.

I mean 6

>It's a plot hole.
Old Cap is not a plot hole.

>poor as fuck story telling.
Yes. It really diminishes the impact of the story if you consider that some Avengers from some other universe COULD HAVE came to our universe and lured Thanos away and killed him. And the possibility that there are infinite universes out there, some with Thanos, some without Thanos, some where he succeeds, some where he fails. Just makes everything pretty insignificant on the grand scheme of things, like Captain Marvel fucking off to other plants because Earth is just not THAT important.

Nah. Not mutually exclusive.

Banner literally says killing baby Thanos does nothing to the future.

So if you go back and kill baby thanos and go home, the instance where you crib-murdered never really existsed anyways except in your memory. You can't go back to that event unless you do that event again.

>Like if I kill myself as a baby in an alternate universe, my alternate self is not erased, he just never existed.
Endgame time travel makes it impossible to make things not exist by altering time. Because you aren't creating a new chain of cause and effect in the past, you are basically moving your "present" to the "past", and doing shit while there. But the stuff that has happened in your past never changes, you just dick around with your own future, with experiences in a "past" time. So in effect Gamora has all her experiences with the Guardians, is killed, then she's also removed from the past at a point, but still goes through all of that stuff, except there's also a Gamora who didn't. You can go back further and further in time and kill as many Thanos(es?)(i?) as you like, and even have one pursue you back to your time, but this doesn't change the battle in Wakanda or the snap or anything else, because it has always happened, always will happen, it is inevitable because it happened.

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I think they succeeded where it mattered, so as long as those infinite Thanos stay outta their back yard there's plenty to smile about. We can only protect what's in front of us.

No, he says it does nothing to the future you remember which is your past. People sure love trying to cherry pick parts of dialogue while ignoring the rest.

>the instance where you crib-murdered never really existsed anyways except in your memory.
Not exactly true. It did exist in your future-become-your-past. If the tyke bit you, you'd have the scar. In essence you are just adding to your own timeline, you aren't damaging or changing or creating new past. He always grows up and does his evil shit.

>Yes, and getting the stone back puts her reality back on track, erasing the bad path by returning to the good.

The whole divergent timeline would be erased, meaning that once again there would only be one timeline.

> She also ends the conversation by saying she can't risk her reality as well, before Strange is brought up.

Again, she's talking about the timeline that would be created if she gives up the time stone.

>He always grows up and does his evil shit.
In your past he does, but not in the version of the past you traveled back to and killed him.

THERE IS NO SHAPIFANNY!

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Please let this be brought up again in an interview and perhaps ask them straight out if there's normally only a single timeline or many realities they travel between and affect individually.

It is technically ",your past," that it would have happened in yes, BUT, once you're back on the other side of the quantum realm in present day, that's no longer an event that actually happened to the existing timeline.

Which doesn't truly exist once you leave it

>In your past he does, but not in the version of the past you traveled back to and killed him.
Nope, he still does. All you've done is added a moment to your past where you've killed him onto the end of his diabolical deeds. The one version of him that always did that diabolical stuff always does it.
In a weird quantum way, they are both time traveling and not time traveling. They are really just synchronizing with a different part of non-linear time and experiencing it.
It's weirdly paradoxical and doesn't completely make sense, exactly like every other time travel movie. The idea of just endlessly splintering off entirely new realities with Time Travel makes even less sense. Like reality is just this endless resource you can spawn MORE infinite universes with by the simple act of turning on a device.

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Still waiting for the part where he says "it makes a new timeline" cause that's a bigger implication than me taking the dialogue very batim.

>But the rest of the orange reality, that's not "every timeline", that's just the timeline that would have been if they didn't take the stones, and continues to be if they return the stones.

There is no dialogue in the film to support this claim though. All the Ancient One says is "This is the flow of time, the stones control it and if you remove a stone from the timeline you create a branching timeline".

There's nothing in the film to support the idea that there are multiple other timelines that the Ancient One didn't mention.

>The whole divergent timeline would be erased
Literally contradicted by what Green Naked Man says:
>we can return each one to its own timeline at the moment it was taken, so, chronologically, in that reality, it never left.
The reality continues to exist after they return the stones.

Pretty sure he never specifically says "return each stone to their own timeline"

Pretty sure it's closer to "return each stone to the moment it was taken"

So, no.

>There is no dialogue in the film to support this claim though
>If I give up the time stone to help your reality, I'm dooming my own.
This explicitly states that the realities exist whether or not they have all the infinity stones.
>once we're done with the stones, we can return each one to its own timeline at the moment it was taken, so, chronologically, in that reality, it never left.
The reality continues to exist after the stone is returned.

I can see the problem here. Like I said, the writers chose some really poor phrases: "that flow splits", "In this new branch reality", "we can erase it"

Out-of-context, that sounds like they're creating and destroying worlds. But if you listen to the whole conversation, they're talking about realities that exist and persist whether or not you take or return the stones.

>There are infinite realities

Where did you get this from? This is never stated in the film.

The real question here is: What happens post-destruction of the Stones by Thanos?
Is the MCU reality now vulnerable to alternate timeline splintering? Or is the opposite true and there'll be other outside timelines/realities that the Stones shielded them from making incursions? Could this lead to the X-Men and FF universes combining with the MCU?

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How can the stone be returned if it wasn't taken?
Of course it's returned to where it was taken from, otherwise it'll still be there...

>Pretty sure he never specifically says "return each stone to their own timeline"
I can't read the subtitles but he literally says "we can return each one to its own timeline"

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This. The Ancient One shows Strange that there are shit-tons of dimensions, but she never portrays any of them as "alternate MCUs".

Not that guy but he never mentions timelines as I remember. I'll pay very close attention when I see it again tonight.

>The real question here is: What happens post-destruction of the Stones by Thanos?
>Is the MCU reality now vulnerable to alternate timeline splintering?
Yes, according to the conversation between bald woman and green man. But that's okay because you can just jump to a different universe, take their infinity stones, use them for ten billion years or so, and then return them.

I gotcha buddy. >once we're done with the Stones, we can return each one to its own timeline, at the moment it was taken. So, chronologically, in *that* reality...it never left.

Ok, I take that back, she definitely talks about a Multiverse
>The Ancient One : [as Doctor Strange is being moved through various dimensions of the Multiverse] You think you know how the world works? You think that this material universe is all there is? What is real? What mysteries lie beyond the reach of your senses? At the root of existence, mind and matter meet. Thoughts shape reality. This universe is only one of an infinite number. Worlds without end. Some benevolent and life giving. Others filled with malice and hunger. Dark places where powers older than time lie ravenous... and waiting. Who are you in this vast multiverse, Mr. Strange?

Niggas, just watch Dragon Ball Z. It's the same kind of time travel

Of course, this could also just be implying an infinite number of weird non-Earth dimensions.

This

It's infinite so it implies both

That's the point, the timeline is repaired. The branch is clipped and time flow is normal again. It erases the events of the stones being taken.

Literally

There are no events of the stone being taken to be erased because the stone is returned the moment it's taken.
Jesus Christ.

I think that's just poor wording, seeing as Banner is just flipping Ancient Ones terms back at her. The demonstration still showed one timeline being split into branches. "Clip the branches"

The difference between our statements being?

>The problem is that the writers chose some really bad phrases, like "that flow splits" and "erase it" which lead you to believe something is being created and destroyed. But the rest of the conversation makes it clear that nothing is created or destroyed, just that bad things happen if you take the stones, and bad things don't happen if you return the stones.

If this interpretation was correct, there would have been absolutely no reason for the Ancient One to draw her diagram to illustrate the problem. If the issue was just that she needs the stone herself to protect the world, she wouldn't have needed to draw a picture to explain that.

She makes it clear that the issue is that taking the stone will create a "new branched reality" in which there will be no stone.

And I think that timeline was her reality specifically, and the branch is losing to the forces of darkness

The demonstration is not consistent with what she's actually saying. She's saying things turn bad if the stone is taken. She uses the word "splits" and shows a black thing splitting from the main orange thing, but the rest of the conversation is about ONE reality turning bad unless the stone is returned.

It's just bad writing. When she ask "can your science prevent all that?" Banner should have just said "Yes, by returning the stone to the moment it was taken." Instead he says "No, but we can erase it" but there's nothing to erase because the events that happen after the stone is taken never actually get to happen because the stone is immediately returned.

1) Thing happens, then thing is erased
2) Thing never happened.

1) "If you harvest my lungs, I'll die." *harvest their lungs* *person dies* *go back in time and return their lungs* *person lives* - self contradiction.
2) "If you harvest my lungs, I'll die" *harvest their lungs* *go away* *come back five seconds later, put their lungs back* *person doesn't die* - no contradiction.

This
She explains that the stones create the flow of what BANNER perceives as the flow of time. ALL time. That everyone is experiencing. In the same timeline. She says the flow is split upon removal of a stone. Her NEW branched reality will fall to darkness without the stone.

Hence she's not from an AU

Yeah, the ONE REALITY that is the sole timeline of their universe. Not just the one that you're implying she may be in.

One reality because she's only discussing her own and the consequences for it

>>The whole divergent timeline would be erased
>Literally contradicted by what Green Naked Man says:
>>we can return each one to its own timeline at the moment it was taken, so, chronologically, in that reality, it never left.
>The reality continues to exist after they return the stones.

Did you even watch the film? Banner outright states that they can "erase" the divergent timeline by returning the stones, and then interacts with the Ancient One's graphic to illustrate what he means: he returns the green stone to it's rightful place around the orange timeline and the dark offshoot dissolves. Of course the offshoot reality doesn't continue to exist - that's why he tells Cap to 'snip all the branches' at the end of the film.

That was a terrible explanation. And there's only a difference between the two to an OBSERVER.

>If this interpretation was correct, there would have been absolutely no reason for the Ancient One to draw her diagram to illustrate the problem
Yes. The writers are hacks.

>She makes it clear that the issue is that taking the stone will create a "new branched reality" in which there will be no stone.
Yes but no. This is the bad writing. She says "the flow splits" when the rest of the conversation makes it more logical that she should have said "the flow diverts". Same way Banner says "no but we can erase it" when it makes logical sense to say "yes, we can prevent it."
If you follow the entire conversation, those two sentences do not fit with the rest of the explanation, and the floaty diagram doesn't fit with the explanation either.

So it's clear why there's confusion - because the on-screen explanation is one correct explanation with two wrong half-sentences mixed into it.

Think: does returning the stone "erase" anything the way Banner says, or does it just prevent any changes from happening in the first place?

That's reaching m8

>there's only a difference between the two to an OBSERVER.
Nope. One is globally self-consistent, and the other is self-contradictory.

The grandfather paradox: You kill your grandfather before he has any children and then you don't exist and then you can't kill your grandfather. This is self-contradictory for all "observers".
Alternate universe: You go to an alternate universe, take your grandfather away, then return him to the very moment you took him from. This is self-consistent for all "observers".

This is not a semantic difference, this is a material difference.

You're saying what YOU THINK they SHOULD have said and not just understanding what they actually meant by what they actually SAID, because your interpretation makes more sense to you. But it's still wrong.

>Out-of-context, that sounds like they're creating and destroying worlds. But if you listen to the whole conversation, they're talking about realities that exist and persist whether or not you take or return the stones.

Or alternately they're talking about exactly what they say they're talking about - offshoot realities that are created when a stone is removed from time, and erased when the stone is returned to the right place.

I appreciate that you would have prefered it if the writers had written the scene differently, so that it clearly supported your interpretation - but I'm afraid they didn't.

>He wakes up in his changed timeline and blatantly acts unaware of the events that lead to his parents being not shitty wastes of space.
So time travel doesn't affect memories.

They're still commiting an action that results in the branch timeline events never happening. They erase the event. Specifically Cap does. To him, it's something erased, to the rest of the universe it never happened.

It's down to the observer.

Not if you pay attention to everything she says and not just the words split and branch

No, I'm saying other than those two bad word choices, the rest of the explanation supports the correct, non-contradictory explanation.
Those two bad phrases and the diagram do not fit with the rest of the explanation.

>offshoot realities that are created when a stone is removed from time, and erased when the stone is returned to the right place.
But other than the diagram and those two phrases, the rest of the things they say don't supports that, and the rest of the movie doesn't support that either. I know that the diagram and those two phrases seem like a lot if we only look at that one scene, but there are other scenes in the movie where they explain time travel, and it doesn't involve creating and erasing timelines.

Not it's still reaching because you're adding facts that were never stated.

Yes it fucking does dude. Not once do they explain things your way, you are taking simply bad wording from a mystic character in the middle of the explanation that I've been reiterating. There's a fucking diagram for the way I'm explaining it to you. That's all that should be necessary but youre being absolutely autistic.

I'm not sure if you're the same person but do try to read more carefully and note that one explanation is self-contradictory and the other explanation is self-consistent, not just "down to the observer" or whatever.

Despite Banner saying "erasing" and despite magic lady saying "split" and "branch" and despite the diagram, there is no erasing of branch realities.

I know it sounds like I'm going against what the movie is saying, but those are three words and one diagram, and there's a whole rest of the movie that contradicts the "erase the split branch" explanation. It's just a bit of bad word choices.

Someone just harass them on Twitter or whatever about this. I would but I don't touch offsite social media shit. If enough people ask maybe we can get a clear answer about whether multiple timelines are possible when the stones are put back

>I know that the diagram and those two phrases seem like a lot if we only look at that one scene, but there are other scenes in the movie where they explain time travel, and it doesn't involve creating and erasing timelines.

This is one of two scenes in the movie where time travel is explained, and they're both vital to understanding what's going on. If the Ancient One's explanation and diagram don't fit with your interpretation, then it just means your interpretation is wrong.

>Not once do they explain things your way
Ho ho ho... Are you the same user that said ? Either way:
>Why don't we just find Baby Thanos, you know, and...
>Time doesn't work that way. Changing the past doesn't change the future.
>That's not how it works.
>Think about it: if you travel to the past, that past becomes your future, and your former present becomes the past, which can't now be changed by your new future.
You can't "erase" timelines in this movie. Whatever happened, happened. Returning the stones doesn't "erase the split branch", the split branch simply doesn't split because the stones are returned before it splits.
Further direct quotes from the movie incoming.

stop posting this and do it yourself you cunt

Dude I understand your interpretation, and still believe it's wrong because it's implying more from the dialogue then what is actually there. There are no alternate realities that FIRMLY exist, until an infinity stone is taken, which go back to never having existed by the end of the film. AO was in our timeline, in the past. She may remember talking to Banner, she may not, and if she does then she always did, and is another example of a casual loop like Cap's.

He says put the stones back in their timelines, because until the stones are back in their places, the branches STILL EXIST.

It's all one timeline at the start, and end

What's the contradiction that's everywhere else in the film? Why are we supposed not listen to the very specific and simple explanation of time travel that's given to us ?

You are reaching and adding your own interpretations to support your theory.

I'm using the raw dialogue and events that happened on screen

>If the Ancient One's explanation and diagram don't fit with your interpretation, then it just means your interpretation is wrong.
Nope. The diagram is wrong as it doesn't fit with the rest of the explanation and the rest of the movie. It's more likely that the writers made a couple of mistakes in that one scene rather than that everything else in the movie being a mistake. One: Two:
>We can't get her back. It can't be undone. It can't be.

So that's two and a half explanations that say time travel can't be undone, and a half explanation with a diagram that says "split branches can be erased".

Final explanation incoming. Think about the lung example again.

I'd have to make an account and figure out who's who and, ehh, no. Guess we'll settle for this then.

Glad you still have the energy, user. My patience for countering their misinterpretation is running low.

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Riddle me this, fat man

Loki escaped into a portal with the tesseract, and while it was in a different timeline technically, that was never resolved. How will this model work if he comes back in a future movie?

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>It just works

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According to the tard, it wouldn't. The stones retroactively erase him and all the events leading up to him taking the Tesseract from existence to preserve destiny and actions in the past can affect events that happened in the future. Banner's wrong apparently.

If Cap can return to the past and live there he fucking changed the present.

Movie says you can't do this but the fact they meet him at the end means he fucking did. It's not a different timeline, it's the one he left.

This shit completely ruins the setting. Everything ever can now be solved with time travel.

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But they put the Tesseract right back where and when they found it.

They can't save Nat cause she already FUCKING DIED. Just like they couldn't just SAVE Tony.

The diagram isn't wrong fucktard, how autistic do you have to be to tell everyone they're wrong for believing the movie, because the movie ITSELF is wrong.

Banner saying you can't kill baby thanos still doesn't say you create a new universe. That's still an implication you are ADDING.

Not if he didn't change anything. Dude fucked his grand-step-niece.

He didn't become Captain America. That changes most of the fucking series.

You guys are both autistic, holy shit.

In 1970. In 2012 Loki jets off to who knows where.

His past self is still in the goddamn ice at the same time he's dancing with Peggy. 2 Caps dude.

That timeline no longer exists, the tesarract never left 2012 and the scepter was put back. The branch was clipped.

Explanation for children.

Based on the description given and the plan working as intended there woild be no branches because everything is the same as when they left it. Problem is they are all fuckups and they changed something in every time they travelled to so returning the Gem at the moment in time they took it doesn't loop it back into the main timeline.

Loki still has the stone in one timeline that also has Hydra believing that Loki found then out. In another Thanos's entire army is gone meaning Ronan continued to fuck shit up and the Civil war never cleanly ended. Last timeline has suspected Russian agents break into a SHIELD facility to steal Pym particles making them more important to SHIELD going forwards because there must be a reason why the ruskies want them.

daily reminder OP's forced faggotry isn't official and can't be proven

Not him, but it still exists. They went back in time from that timeline and took the Tesseract from then, and then put it back right when and where they found it so that the timeline could play out like normal. The problem is that Loki escaping *is* the normal for that timeline now because they didn't fix it.

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Nice. Also, gotta love how both sides are going "holy shit how can you be so stupid that you don't understand something this simple".
I love stories that involve traveling in time or visiting alternate universes, but time-travel can often be so convoluted that I tend to just give up and try not to think too hard how it works. It's impossible so you can't make sense out of it, anyway.
I hope the creators of the movie will touch this debate soon in some interview or behind-the-scenes material, so we can at least know what their intention with the whole thing was. I'd be curious to know.

Think there's a chris evans interview that also goes an explains what he was doing at the end.

go back to Yea Forums

welcome to four days ago, user

>It's the only way the 2 separate and equally important statements
No, no it isn't.

There isn't a single line of dialogue to support alternate timelines that spontaneously collapse just because 'the trip is finished' - which is also a really stupid.idea.

>treating their realities as separate from the get go
No, she calls them separate because if he takes the stone, THEN it WILL be separate.

>This is just your explanation.
It's a completely logical explanation which doesn't contradict anything the movie says, and doesn't depend on the magic erasing of timelines.

And why is that a bad thing? A world where Thanos can never get the Gauntlet together sounds fine to me.

Causal loops are fucking stupid, because they mean the universe was just created with them built in.

You're replying to a discussion where somebody's saying Banner said it CAN'T HAPPEN, not that it won't change anything.

>The only inference you can reasonably malk
No. It's perfectly reasonable to infer it WOULD have a bearing on the new timeline.

>It's only the act of giving up the stone that creates that alternate reality.
Supposition.

How could you remember the events you experienced if the timeline just disappeared when you left it?

nytimes.com/2019/04/29/movies/avengers-endgame-questions-and-answers.html

Writers confirm parallel timeline theory. They created a new timeline every travel they made.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
OP BTFO

>Anything that happens to you just ahead of your present is your future.
Which absolutely requires a new timeline, since it's stated the original/main timeline won't be affected.

One of quantum theory's theories is that EVERY random event literally creates a new universe.

You could reasonably infer, from her stating that the stones create the flow of time, that destroying them would stop time completely. Yet Thanos destroys them and time carries on just fine.

Giant dwarf must have designed the gauntlet that way.

Maybe we're all wrong.Maybe Cap did change the past when he went back
Maybe 9/11 didn't happen on Earth Prime. Maybe Hydra and Bucky were dealt with immediately.

Banner never says anything to support the idea that the timeline will just un-exist.

>Which doesn't truly exist once you leave it
The movie is establishing a form of time travel in which a paradox can't happen. So why would it make it possible that you can be bitten by a baby from a timeline that doesn't exist?

>There isn't a single line of dialogue to support alternate timelines that spontaneously collapse just because 'the trip is finished'

>It's a completely logical explanation which doesn't contradict anything the movie says, and doesn't depend on the magic erasing of timelines.

I'm not sure how you can read these two posts - both of which refute the idea that there are multiple timelines in the film - and conclude that I'm claiming the film depicts 'alternate timelines' which are 'magically erased'.

>It's perfectly reasonable to infer it WOULD have a bearing on the new timeline.

This assumes that there would be a new timeline - which is something Hulk never says or implies. That's my point - you're making an assumption which doesn't follow from what Hulk actually said.

>nytimes.com/2019/04/29/movies/avengers-endgame-questions-and-answers.html

This was already discussed several hundred posts upthread. The writers don't confirm or deny anything.

That interview's bit on time travel is weird - it says Dark World could play out entirely differently because of the reality stone and mjolnir disappearing, but Steve put them both back.

The Tesseract never left 2012, and timelines are created/fully exist when you remove the stones.

The scepter was put back, and time will correct itself on the cube. Loki will still end up in Prison with the Cube in Asgard

One of those posts included "I remember Banner saying all this", when he absolutely didn't.

I already said, I'm making a logical assumption which the movie DOES NOT contradict, through ANY of its dialogue.

>time will correct itself on the cube
Completely unsupported by the movie.

"No but we can erase it"

Yes he does.

>Banner's wrong apparently
>Banner: you cant change the past
>OP: you cant change the past but they also didnt create any new permanent realities, heres how
>You: "BUH UNGA BUNGA"

So you missed the scene where Ancient One and Bruce fucking play with a bright orange visual aid, take a stone out, the visualized timeline splits, put a stone back, and it becomes one timeline again?

And Bruce says doing this "Erases" timelines?

Because it's still your personal past, even if the events are visitable anymore

Not unless they say it does. You're inserting your idea of how time travel and physics work, over what was described in the film

>ITT: retards are too fucking stupid to understand the basic concept of "Schrodingers Cat"

Yea Forums is truly the dumbest board.

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Yes it does restore itself they fucking say thats what it does.

>Everybody's confused by the word "erased".
>actively ignoring the movie to promote your headcanon.

When he said erased, he fucking meant erased.

>One of those posts included "I remember Banner saying all this", when he absolutely didn't.

You've misunderstood what I was trying to say in that post (although admittedly I worded it badly, so that's my fault). I was responding to someone who'd written that Banner said that killing Thanos in the past wouldn't change the future (which I agreed with - Hulk clearly said that). That poster then suggested that this was because killing Thanos in the past would create a new timeline (which is not in any way what Hulk said - he didn't mention alternate timelines).

Again, I don't see how this suggests I'm arguing in favour of the existence of alternate timelines when I'm actually pointing out that there's nothing in the film to support their existence.

>I already said, I'm making a logical assumption which the movie DOES NOT contradict, through ANY of its dialogue.

It's also an assumption which the film DOES NOT support in any way, through ANY of its dialogue. And given that complete lack of corroboration it's open to question just how logical an assumption it is.

>, I'm making a logical assumption
Headcanon

feels good man