Are you ready for the ultimate red pill?

There is some weird psy op from the mainstream comic press that convinced retards that ya boi zak is the comic critic version of Hitler. It's creepy how coordinated and organized he revealed comics book media to be.

youtube.com/watch?v=Iwuy4hHO3YQ

i remember years ago seeing a thing about how manga is always written a certain way to make it easier to read. the layouts and such. and comics don't follow a standard form.

i don't think it's that big a problem i mean everyone's read the newspaper comics before

it's true tho.

>sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/03/100301151927.htm

Atrazine is in fact going further than "turning the freaking frogs gay." The frogs are actually turning transgender.

Go back to /pol/

Yeah, western comics have the "legacy" problem. A bunch of rebooted characters that can't grow nor be replaced or just be there like mentors or something else. Add bad writers and you have the actual state of the industry. (Add that capes are seen like the only genre in the medium)

That site is great for stats, shitty for analysis.

For example this post quotes the oft-cited "comics are like movies" fallacy. Comics are not like movies; they have qualities in common, but they are not the same thing, and they are consumed as media for different reasons. Dark Knight Returns is not cinematic; it is not even particularly useful as a storyboard or animatic. Comics do not work that way.

Then this post quotes Tom Brevoort, noted neurologist, talking about left-right distinctions in the brain, half-assing an answer based on ill-understood concepts from some pop-sci book or more likely magazine article that was already out of date and/or inaccurate when he read it 25 years ago.

And then this guy bases his own argument on Brevoort and states, unequivocally, that everything he has quoted Brevoort saying "is true".

But both arguments rely on the idea that these people don't read, or that reading comics (which if you recall in the first post he argued were simplistic and self-expository before becoming even more simplified) is a special skill that can only be acquired in childhood (the idea that we can only learn new skills while young is an old wives' tale and has no particular scientific basis for general learning).

And because he's a colossal faggot who should stick to collating datasets on sales instead of blogging his every garbage train of thought.

>the mainstream comic press

At this point with the long dead Wizard but a distant memory I'm pretty sure "the mainstream comic press" is just Rich Johnston, who a) basically has to make it all up since his green card expired and he's not allowed back in the states to work and b) has a day job gophering for Paul "Horse Porn" Staines, definitively a member of the far-right press by his own admission.

What I'm getting at here is this is all in your head.

Nobody has ever been able to reproduce Hayes' results except Hayes.

His issue by issue analysis of FF is unparalleled.

When it comes to the FF, people usually recommend to read Lee/Kirby's run and skip ahead to Byrne's run, zak articles convinced me to keep reading the issues after Kirby left

He has a point on decompression and the "realistic" dialogue of modern comics, though

I ended up getting a new appreciation for the non-Kirby, non-Byrne stuff even in spite of the stories' flaws.

And while I like a lot of the stuff after the cutoff point, I can definitely see his point on Reed:

zak-site.com/Great-American-Novel/ff-different.html

>For example this post quotes the oft-cited "comics are like movies" fallacy. Comics are not like movies; they have qualities in common, but they are not the same thing, and they are consumed as media for different reasons

Wait, did you read all that and thought he was arguing that comics should be cinematic?

>but instead, terrified of losing the traditional market, the comics decided to copy video instead: with more pictures and less reading.

>This is a battle comics cannot win!

So what you're saying is Bendis saved comics?

Did you read the page? He said that it was a bad thing.

There exists critically acclaimed manga with horrible panelling.
Such as Akira or Nausicaä.
Literally painful to read.

Generally its a lot easier to weeb into manga because a lot of popular manga have really good panel layouts. Left to Right or Right to Left isn't a big issue.
Standardized Paneling standards only help that, since it means if you don't follow the standard you need to have better visual acuity than the standard to get any readers.
If your entryway gateway drug of Choice turned out to be Bleach, Naruto or Dragon Ball? Well, the panel and flow of action and narrative is so much higher than western comics. It just makes them really easy to read, to the point where a 200 page tome(minimum size) isn't daunting, you just consume in rapid escalation.

Even on the girls side the more popular manga is written/draw by talentful who do good panelling. Anything produced by CLAMP, Rumiko Takahashi or a bunch of other really popular authors is really easy to read.
Hardness to read != density of information on page

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zak-site.com/Great-American-Novel/realtime_marvel_universe.html

I really love this one

>Here are examples of how Marvel stories no longer connect to the past or each other in any meaningful way (my apologies to the original author, I copied the text and missed your name):

>"For instance, one of the most long-running mysteries of the Marvel universe has been Wolverine’s mysterious past, and how he himself has never been able to figure it all out, due to various false memory implants and blocks and whatnot. Now, thanks to House of M, for the first time he remembers his entire life. You would expect this to be a rather big deal, wouldn’t you? But no, outside of his ongoing title, it has not been mentioned again since House of M. Not in the New Avengers, where he appears in every issue, nor in the X-titles, where he also appears. "There are also such fun things as Warren Ellis’ new run of Iron Man, who seems to have only the artificial trappings of the normal Tony Stark, and could easily be considered a What If? story itself if not for how it’s supposedly meant to be in continuity. Then there’s just general madness like Grant Morrison’s run on X-Men, where he threw everything he could think up into the story lines just to see what could work there (examples: Beast suddenly being gay, then not, or Colossus dying heroically, then Morrison realizing he needed Colossus for an upcoming story so he invents “secondary mutations” in all mutants so that he can give the White Queen Colossus-like powers, and then Joss Whedon coming along later and deciding to bring Colossus back to life anyway)."

>"Again, as said before: confusing the audience is not the best way to keep the company going. Indeed, if anything, all this manages to do is convince us to stop caring about any of the characters or stories, because we know that in another year or so, the character will be completely changed or the story will have suddenly happened differently than it did, or may not have happened at all."

>Contradictions are often blatant. For example, the Marvel Knights Fantastic Four takes place in the Marvel Universe, yet contradict each other. One has a five year old Franklin, another has an nine year old, one is poor, another is rich. As CyberCoyote said on the comicboards forum,

>"I very much enjoyed the pot shots they took at one another. Reed made a speech in a RAS [Roberto Aguirre Sacasa, Marvel Knights] issue explaining that he didn't have some 'Magic Eraser' to fix everything: referring to the Afterlife story with Kirby as God. Waid [Mark Waid, regular FF] ridiculed the whole 'FF are broke' story line by showing that Reed could recoup massive losses by spending 4 minutes of his time to whip up commercial hot cakes like cures for acne."

>Consistency is dead, and contradictions are everywhere. For example, as of 2010, Spider-Man was officially never married, despite decades of stories that said he was (and despite a newspaper strip where he still is). Peter and Mary Jane had a baby, and what happened to her? Nobody cares. But once again I am racing ahead. Let's go back to 1991 and see how the Marvel Universe finally died:

>Tim Hansen, long time Hulk fan, wrote to describe how old green skin changed:

>Original Hulk
>The original Bruce Banner a happy childhood. The Hulk was not a part of Banner's personality at all, but a separate being. We know this because the psychiatrist Doc Samson analysed banner and the Hulk at great length, even spending some time literally inside the Hulk's mind."

>There was only one Hulk, who loved animals and nature, and only used his strength out of confusion and frustration. But that changed in the mid and late 1980s .

>"In Hulk #226 [1978], Hulk gets a flashback from Banner's school days, where he and his old girlfriend Sally is on love. Not something you would expect from the shy bookworm Banner is portrayed as later. The therapy with Samson happened in Hulk #226. This is when Samson actually entered Hulk's mind, seeing and remembering what Hulk saw and remembered, and there were no parent issues. Another flashback show us the genius Bruce making a mistake in the chemistry lab at highschool. It's in that issue where Samson says 'Banner and Hulk are not just two sides of the same mind, they are actually two different beings.' In Hulk #247 [1980], Hulk has a flashback about Banner standing at his parents' grave, saying "Farewell, mom, dad. I miss you dearly." - Tim Hansen

>New Hulk
>The new Banner had an abused childhood, there are many Hulks, generally on a theme of mindless violence (and most are physically much larger), and are all part of Banner's split personality.
>"Starting with Hulk #292 [1984]. Banner starts having nightmares about a dark Hulk appearing in his dreams. The demon Nightmare has created a new Hulk based on Banner's fears, a Hulk that has nothing to do with previous incarnations. From then we gradually see more and more Hulks: yellow demon Hulk, red Hulk, gray Hulk, old Hulk, young Hulk, professor Hulk, mindless Hulk, Hulking, you name it. At this point I pretty much stopped reading Hulk. Partly because of the constant changes, new Hulks that had only the name and skin color in common with the old character"

This one's a good one.

zak-site.com/Great-American-Novel/ff-different.html

I may like a bunch of post-1989 FF but I can definitely see his reasoning here.

Bump

> Kids these days don't have the skills I had when I was a kid
> Kids these days don't put in the effort

I've heard it all before, old man. And you heard it too, during your golden age when you were a kid and old men were telling you that you weren't putting in the effort to read the literature they liked.

Off is the direction I want you to fuck.

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It's true. The death of captions, thought bubbles and narration ruined comics and the need to actually READ them. No, we didn't need characters describing everything they did, but not everyone wrote like that. Comics rejected their own language, and for all their supposed modern sophistication, now really have achieved Wertham's accusation of being illiterate.

bump

>thought bubbles

i only like that being used when a character literally can read minds

I fucking love this guy's website. He knows his shit.
I love his review on what made Spider-Man great. I 100% agree with him.

>from then we gradually see more and more Hulks: yellow demon Hulk, red Hulk, gray Hulk, old Hulk, young Hulk, professor Hulk, mindless Hulk, Hulking, you name it
This sounds like an interesting idea about a guy with emotional problems turning into monsters that represent those emotions to fight crime and over come his problems.

What's hard about reading Akira?

video killed the comic book star?

Except it contradicts what was established with the character before

Pleb

I hope you get shot trying to do a Christchurch,piece of shit channer

Its very dense and detailed artwork with Hunter X Hunter words words words over it

>Comics rejected their own language, and for all their supposed modern sophistication, now really have achieved Wertham's accusation of being illiterate.
This

Edgy

I mean the idea sounds interesting on it's own. You shouldn't just shoehorn it onto some other character.

Panelling isn't that great.
Meaning for each page, you can't just follow the flow of panel/character/speech movement and read it. You need to manually move your eyes over to try to grasp what is there.
Which means limit consumption, and also mean its harder for lesser readers to grasp everything thats going on.

And no, panelling quality isn't the same as denseness of art/dialogue. Hunter X Hunter and Berserk both has a lot of extremely detail, but its easy to read because the presentation flows when being read.
A lot of Tezuka manga also has extreme denseness, but its easy to read.

Honestly, in the manga medium its easier to spot this if you read a more ambitious manga that isn't popular. Its not popular because the empathy it presents is lesser, but also because panel layout and flow of movement is lesser.
Text isn't thought out well either, so you occasionally get pages thats unreadable because the author needs to have a few characters say a lot that isn't meaningful.
When you combine this, and you go somewhere like Yea Forumsnime to blogpost about what you have read, a lot of people will get accused of being 'speedreaders'. This is because they are not good readers, and they increase tempo to componsate for the fact its hard to read. The end result is that they miss so much, they often ask questions about clearly stated details or actions.
Of course you get speedreaders for manga that is easy to read as well. Where the reader is yet incapable of grasping, like kids often are.

Its harder to read than something like The Legend of Mother Sarah.
Which is made by the same author, a decade later, with denser panels with more fluid action.

In my general opinion a lot of wester comics is harder to read more than 40 pages, because panelling and fluid motion is terrible.
I.E something like Black Summer is readable, but only because it uses a predefined consistent 2x3 grid for panels.

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It's almost as if the character is owned by a corporation that doesn't give a shit about it and totally misses what made the character so iconic in the first place. It's almost as if they just hire any Johnny come lately asshole off the street to write the character even if they have a misfit take on them.

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Sad, but true

Enjoying the measels, bud?

>"This isn't something specific to women, but to all people beyond a certain age. it seems that reading comic books is a learned skill, like any other, and if somebody doesn't learn the language at an early enough age, it can be difficult for them to decode it later

That's bullshit, I started readig comics at like 16-17, and then manga later. It's like reading a book, left and right and down, it's not some amazing skill. You may develop critical skills like recognizing good vs bad panneling, flow, etc... but that's not what he's talking about.

kek

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He's right tho

Bump this good thread

bait or crossie, go away

Dumbass

>horrible panelling
>Akira
This is a first. Panelling is one of the factors that helped it achieve its acclaim. Nausicaä, I do understand, is a mess of panels, but saying that Akira has horrible panelling is retarded.
>Literally painful to read.
Get your brain checked, dude.
>you can't just follow the flow of panel/character/speech movement and read it
Yes, you can. I did. You don't know what you're talking about.

is there another good comic book analysis site like OP posted but for other titles, maybe something like the Avengers?

Bump

I miss narration in comics, i think by the 70s the writers got better at using it to set up the mood and not just write things like "Superman punched Lex Luthor" like they did in the silver age

Manga volumes marketed for new or younger readers, as well as publications like Shonen Jump, often come with a tutorial at both ends of the book showing how the panels are ordered, which I assume helps.
I think back when english manga first entered the mass market, through Tokyopop and the like, everything had those instructions regardless of what age group it was for.

I prefer this one
youtu.be/9JRLCBb7qK8

>decompression killed modern comics
Duh. But it's not video's fault these days, it's manga. Manga is considerably more decompressed than comics, but manga also works completely different.

Okay, but manga does extremely well with showing and not telling. They take longer to develop their stories (meaning more panels have to be drawn for the same amount of dialogue), but they are easier to understand because they dole out information at a slower and more complete rate and segregate much of the exposition and art. This is partly why adults who don't like comics often discover manga and become enamored with it, especially working creatives.

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If manga is doing so great, how come most of the time when american comics try to do the same thing they fall flat most of the time

>Comics are capeshit
God I hate this board
Anyway it's not a video problem, it's a digital platforms and speed of consumption problem. You buy a comic issue it costs 4$ and it's 25 fucking pages, you read that in 5 minutes and then what? A graphic novel costs like 20$ and they come out once a year if they're lucky.
It's just not economically feasible now that it's such a niche market and you can't mass distribute it on toilet paper, so publishers are desperate to appeal to whatever audience they can find in hopes that "the fandom" will support the industry out of zealotry. You're also wrong about the amount of reading because one of the worst aspects of modern capeshit is egomaniacal writers who think they're writing a novel and have characters spout speech balloons that take half a page.
Manga doesn't have these problems because it's still massively distributed and it has an economic model that keeps it cheap.
Also it helps that they're entertaining to read (compared to capeshit even smashing your nuts with a hammer while you jump on hot coals is more entertaining) instead of the absolute lowest quality trash imaginable. Capeshit publishers have the gift of absolutely retarded customers who will not move to other comics out of loyalty to the franchisees, so they feel comfortable putting out complete trash for minimum effort while the boat slowly sinks. Outside of capeshit, comics are mostly an alternative culture thing and both the artists and the buyers within this public will make sure that they will remain a niche thing until they go extinct.

>God I hate this board

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>You're also wrong about the amount of reading because one of the worst aspects of modern capeshit is egomaniacal writers who think they're writing a novel and have characters spout speech balloons that take half a page.
Pretty sure Zak article criticized that aspect of modern comics, the issue with the dialogue is not how much text there is on the page but rather how it's used, expository dialogue has a purpose (whatever is really neccesary or not is arguable) unlike having the characters talk a lot without saying anything

>You're also wrong about the amount of reading because one of the worst aspects of modern capeshit is egomaniacal writers who think they're writing a novel and have characters spout speech balloons that take half a page.
Pretty sure Zak also criticized that, the issue with the dialogue is not how much text there is on the page but rather how it's used, expository dialogue has a purpose (wherever is really necessary or not is arguable) unlike having the characters talk a lot without saying anything

ahaha I was wondering when "Zak" (he's actually an ex-Mormon/anti-Mormon activist named Chris Tolworthy) would show up on Yea Forums again

years back, there was a thread on /pol/ about his other site, which was this half-baked "answers to everything" website that went on about pantheism (without actually calling it that because he apparently just came to the same conclusions on his own without realize it was already a thing), the mathematical nature of God and the universe, and how geolibertarianism was the solution to all political problems

I feel like for all the talk about using decompression back in the 00's, I don't think many comics that use decompression pace themselves as well as manga.

If you think that reading comics actually means having words written down, you're the one who's rejecting comics own language. There are many great comics with long stretches of little to no words on it that make full use of the medium. You don't need more words for a comic to be more complex. The problem is that you and the American industry think of comics as a genre rather than a medium. It's as if you'd think films were only superhero movies and no other stories could be told in that medium.

>waaaahhhhh stop using wrongbadwords
You have to go back

>redpill
this is an interesting article, it has nothing to do with your dumb pol memes, you fucking retard

>make full use of the medium.
You're thinking of a picture book rather than a comic

This isn't a red pill. Red pill is meant to be truthful knowledge of a dark secret, or the answer to some conspiracy theory.
This is just informative theories. Not some conspiracy to keep comics down.

It’s even more hilarious when most of the problems that plague the industry have been known for decades at this point, yet no one does a thing about it.

Which is sad, really

Fixing the industry would involve having to let DC and Marvel let go of their death grip on it, and both are backed by entertainment megacorps.

There’s a reason why there seems to be an uptick in “weebs” in recent years.

16-17 is still relatively young, user, brain is still developing.
We should talk 25+ years old

Manga has a DIFFERENT compression.
Every chapter by itself must be "interesting" enough to have the readers bother voting it to continue.
In general, most manga chapters have a single mini-story in them. Many comic writers fail to have every issue be a complete mini-story as part of a larger story, they end up often as "only a fragment"

Most important, manga is, in the USA, sold almost exclusively as volumes.
One manga volume costs less, has more pages and in it USUALLY(there are exceptions) happens more than in a comic book TP.

They should just market their comics to families again instead of canon obsessed whales.

I didn't read manga until I was an adult and I didn't need any instructions.

Yeah, decompression in the 00's in US comics tends to feel like it drags out.

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And so the classics win again.

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you should have posted King's Mister Miracle

I am assuming in good faith that this is a serious text, but damn if it isn't difficult for me to do so.

King's Mister Miracle was from the 10's, though.

You know what I want to do? I wanna compare the adaptations of the OT Star Wars trilogy: Marvel version, Dark Horse version of Special Edition, the Star Wars manga, and whatever other comic redo they did in this decade.

they could have done the same page half space, with Wolvie's reaction being in a single panel row

>>A small number of cinematic comics sold well. E.g. Dark Knight Returns
This person has absolutely no idea what he's talking about, does he?

So you think the numerous silent sequences on Watchmen make it a picture book rather than a comic?

Honestly DKR is kind of cinematic yet doesn't fall into the same category as widescreen comics. If you published DKR in monthly comics, 22-page chunks instead of the longer prestige format, the first issue would only get to the part where news reports are coming in about Batman possibly returning, so I agree and disagree with Tolworthy on it.

Keep in mind, Steranko considers some of his own comics cinematic and that's also a different kind of cinematic than widescreen comics, so Tolworthy might be going on that.

>the first issue would only get to the part where news reports are coming in about Batman possibly returning, so I agree and disagree with Tolworthy on it.
But that has absolutely nothing to do with it being cinematic. If anything, it makes it more novelistic. Decompression is not cinematic at all, considering that movies tend to condense things more than decompress them, so they can tell a whole story in a single 2 hour piece.

What's so difficult about it?

Decompression by itself isn't cinematic, but it's associated with it only because that's what people--Fans and creators alike--consider widescreen/cinematic comics.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decompression_(comics)

storytellersjournal.wordpress.com/2008/08/08/decompression-writing-comics-like-movies/

If it is overdone then yes. Comics is a double medium, it contains art AND text, thinking that by focusing solely on the visual is "making full use of the medium" is retarded

Every time I've seen actual creators talking about cinematic techniques in their comics, they actually talk about letting the image and the panneling lead the action and the timing, rather than using written words for it. The relationship with decompression tends to come from people who like to put all the stuff together and tie it with a nice little bow.
This quote, for instance:
>Recently, comic book writers have allowed art and visuals to tell more story than dialogue or narration. This technique is called decompression.
couldn't be more wrong. Telling stories without words has absolutely nothing to do with decompression. Comic strips do it all the time in 3 or 4 panels, would you call that decompressed?

Okay, here's different interpretations of the Death Star Battle. The first here is from the 70's Marvel comic by Roy Thomas and Howard Chaykin. Chaykin really, really hates the art that he drew on this.

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As long as those canon obsessed whales are willing to hand out money, they will always be more relevant than any other comic book fan.
After all, in the end, it's all about making money.

I never said that focusing solely on the visuals is "making full use of the medium", I said that there are comics that do that and still make full use of the medium.
Excess of words is also detrimental to the comic medium and I would even dare to say that it's even more so than overreliance on art because it tends to take over and relegate art to a mere illustration.

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It's not just comics that are dropping in sales, it's all printed media. Families don't read anymore other than headlines and social media.

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>using doublespeak unironically

Remove yourself, doublefast.

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>Video has 24 frames a second

cgi is the ultimate killer of animations. It's fucking insane shit like Isle of Dogs are still being produced when CGI is nearing a point of being realistic enough to not see a difference. It's going to cost less and require less man hours as time goes on. Animation is going to be dead, especially when cgi will replicate 2D animation easier and cheaper than having Koreans do the heavy work.

This next part is from Dark Horse's adaptation for the Star Wars Special Edition. I'm starting with some pages from #3 because the Death Star sequence is split between #3 and #4. This time around Bruce Jones adapted the script while Eduardo Barreto illustrated it. You may know Barreto from his work on things like The Shadow Strikes, Batman: Master of the Future, Superman: Speeding Bullets, and a lot of other stuff.

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Why are comics so insistent on using color? It costs so much money and usually doesn't help the visuals much since capeshit uses awful coloring techniques
Why complain about the expenses of comics when there's so many cost-saving measures they refuse to use

Families don't spend as much money on hobby obsessed whales.
Well, besides kids Free To Play games that kids can buy shit for with a single click without realizing it's costing mommy and daddy thousands.

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CUTE

Because people are willing to buy manga in black-and-white and not enough want to buy US comics in black-and-white unless they're newspaper strip collections. If comics worked the way you think it should, Batman Black And White would be a successful anthology.

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>>Video has 24 frames a second Comics can never equal that. Video has no thing to read. Comics can never equal that - video can compensate with sound, but comics can't. Chasing video is economic suicide.

Oh please, mangas compete with anime, that's not an excuse man, some people even consider some manga better than their own animes.

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uh ohz
someone used words user didnt like so he shit his diapee and threw a shitter tantrum. back to plebbit you'll fit in better with the other pussies

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>people are just getting stupider and IQ is lowering as years go by. This is due to vaccines causing brain damage, fluoride, and diets consisting of sugar water and processed junk food.
Anti-vaxxers are wankers, but flouride has been shown to cause problems in the long term, and America is largely obese thanks to their obsession with soda and snacks.

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your using words wrongly

>your
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
any weebs know where to buy sudokuswords?

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my fault.
meant to say was CGI will be cheaper and more realistic than ever. the whole process will be easier to use and push out those koreans as soon there will be a way to make those cgis into being faster 2d animation. comics are too dead to be threatened by this since it is dead from evolving mediums like video.

edgy but not wrong

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My mom didn't pick up a comic book until she was in at least her 40s, but she's fluent or nearly fluent with them now.

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>visible rivets on the x-wing
I like this more than I should

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I dont care much for superman... never really got into his comics that much but I will say this.. ive been going back and reading alot of his golden age and silver age stuff and while it's very outdated at times i've been enjoying it quite a bit.
I'm hoping 80s superman is decent since that was such a wierd decade for comics. But so far the golden age has been my favorite stuff of his.
Also got goldenage batman in queue.. cant wait to enjoy a few issues of fat alfred

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The sound effect ruins the panel

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I really like the colors and art of the 70s star wars comics. I might have to go give them a read later

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And this version here is the Star Wars A New Hope manga, illustrated by Hisao Tamaki. Only here to compare with the other takes on the sequences.

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Why does he hate the art? I also enjoyed this a lot more than I thought I would. The narration kept me engaged, and it sounded like a 1940's radio announcer in my head.

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>Video killed comics
Yeah, no, Japan exists as one big refutation to such an idiotic notion.
Comics get killed when you have:
>Kikeburgs around every corner willing to sue anyone if a character has the same powerset as another character
>Finkstines who don't give creators ownership of their IP and instead generate an industry built almost entirely around glorified fanfiction
>Shylocks creating an industry with no real standard of quality that does not simply publish the works of others like it should, and instead employs people to make works that they have not yet created.
Comics as exemplified by the practices of the Big 2 are a creatively defunct venture.
All of those things create bad content.
That is what kills comics.
The structure of the industry itself.
Not
>"people who don't know the reading order of panels"
That is a disgustingly naive statement.
Anyone who can read a book can read a comic.
>"people who can't read and look at a pictures at the same time"
Those people do exist and it is a pretty big problem when trying to get people to watch anything in subtitles.
A comic however moves at the pace the reader sets so that too is complete and total bullshit.

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Oh my goodness, Luke is kawaii.
It's amazing how easily this one page conveys a sense of emergency and direness using only imagery.

>Jews suing other Jews and stealing characters from Jews
Damn Jews, they ruined Judaism

But OP says it's decompression and it needs more words to be a true comic

Chaykin views his own work back in the 70's as amateurish (don't forget that what you see on the page there is also the inking done by Rick Hoberg and Bill Wray, so Chaykin may be aware of mistakes he himself made; since I'm not aware of him saying anything bad about the inkers, I think he may be okay with them fixing things that he believes he fucked up). It also doesn't help that he doesn't think fondly of Star Wars.

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A lot of the time, Chaykin comes off as an absolute genius with terrible taste. His contemporary inking is absolutely disgusting, specially compared to the elegance of his earlier work, either at Marvel or in Flagg.

i liked his article on the sliding timescale. it really has created way more problems than it has "solved" as far as continuity goes, for both marvel and dc.

zak-site.com/Great-American-Novel/marvel_time.html

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I think Chaykin's taste in illustrators is pretty damn good. If you're talking about his judgment of his own work, then that's a believable argument.

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I'm not on my computer right now so I can't post it but just look for Hey Kids! Comics and tell me with a straight face that a man who approved the inking and collouring in those pages isn't at least a bit of a dullard.
And I say this as a huge fan of his who was very close to importing those floppies but (thankfully) I was too broke so I ended up pirating them.

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Yeah, that does sound more like a "judgment of his own work" issue. He's got good taste in early 20th century illustrators, but sometimes his comics have really weird decision-making.

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But comic art IS illustration, why do people try to pretend is anything but that?

cool page

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No, it isn't. It's narration using both images and words, and not just images to illustrate what the words say. Those are illustrated books.

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There's only one pill you need. Take one daily.

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the 90s bubble and shift to the direct market was the biggest thing. Manga is sold in convenience stores, but you'd be hard pressed to find a comic anywhere but some thinkgeek hellhole now. They cut out the casual readers for collectors who jumped ship and then never went back.

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I gotta say, the ANH manga was the strongest of the manga adaptations of the OT. The other two felt like a step down illustration-wise.

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Finally here's the version of IDW's adaptation of ANH, but to be fair this was intended for a younger audience. The script adaptation was by Alessandro Ferrari and according to the credits:
Igor Chimisso did character studies
Matteo Piana did layout and clean-up, and inks
Alessandro Pastrovicchio also did inks
Davide Turotti did paint for background/settings
Kawaii Creative Studio did paint for characters

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The artist draw what the writer writes, it's his job to illustrate the story that was handed to him (unless he does both the art and the writing, or in the case of 60s Marvel when Stan Lee give the artists leeway on how to handle the stories)

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That's wrong, it should be a collaboration. The best comics out there are.
>Stan Lee give the artists leeway on how to handle the stories
Ha, that's a way to put it. It was more like the artists did the whole thing and Stan Lee gave the thumbs up or down and wrote the words later.

Manga paneling strictly follows the T-Rule which makes it easier to read that comics.

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I don't know if there were any other comic adaptations of ANH aside from all of these. Anyone else know?

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Bonus round: The remastering of the Marvel Star Wars pages in With more "realistic" coloring.

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>Enjoying the measels, bud?
Statistically, he is more likely to give you measles due to failing herd immunity. There are miniature microcosms of out breaks in locations where affluent white women don't get their kids vaccinated, its great because they might have the money for long term treatment but most the people they git sick don't. It's just a way to get rid of the poor instead of paying them for the demeaning and frankly more physically demanding shit jobs they do.

Me I just want to see the world die, and fast if all possible, so I let stupid people do their stupid thing.

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I was expecting more arguments in defense of the dialogue and paneling layout of old comics, i'm dissapointed Yea Forums

well, of course. They killed the messiah.

Most dialogue in old comics is garbage, and panelling and layout suffered a lot from being so text-heavy. It's one of the main reasons why American comics were so much behind comics from anywhere else for about 40 years.

>wrote the words later.
which is, in my opinion, a very underestimated contribute

>underestimated
If there's something Stan Lee is not, is underestimated.

So you hold the art above everything else, gotcha

No, I don't. All comics are written first, just like movies. You just don't need them there on the page all the time, in the same way you don't need dialogue all the time.
You can have both comics and movies without words, but not without images. That's just how those mediums work, whether you like it or not.
And just in case you want to go reach for some more conclusions, I love books and own and read much more literature than comics.

Then how come people didn't have a problem with that back in the day?

Because the medium was in its infancy. By the 50s it was already seen as a minor and disposable medium and taken less and less seriously while elsewhere its reputation was only increasing as time went by. Only by the late 70s and mostly during the 80s is when American comics started to catch up with the rest of the world, and it was also when they started having less reliance on written word and started to have more confidence in themselves as a worthy cultural product.

The Silver Age was looked down by people not because there was a lot of text on the page, but because the stories were poor, when 60s Marvel hit the stands it didn't took long to get teenagers and young adults attention to them even though it was filled with dialogue.
We can argue how much of the expository dialogue was really necessary or not, but i do believe that when comics try to rely the most on the visual they usually end up having less content, one of the reasons i tend to prefer old comics from the mid 60s to the early 80s over current is because a single issue feels worthwhile compared to now

actually they call meme words