LET'S SETTLE THIS

He was there in hiding, dreading the realization that in a few hours his younger self would be swapping fluids with his niece.

the latter

he never traveled back through time afterwards.

Main difference between Marvel and DC Fans

DC fans like things explained
Marvel fans just want to look at the pretty pictures

i seriously unironically wanted him to point to the A on his helmet and ask thanos if the A stands for france

Anyone else hate that he went back to the past? It was contrived how he got to go back. Why would they send Cap of all people by himself to go put the stones back? Why not send Rhodey or Captain Marvel or Dr. Strange with him? I get why it was done for the sake of narrative, but it doesn't make rational sense.

>DC fans are pedantic nerds who care more about lore and minute details, where as Marvel fans know it's all made up fantasy just want a good story.

I do. It's actually the same problem with Samurai Jack. You can't spend an entire series going on about how the character needs to move on from the past then to send them back at the last minute for supposedly happy ending.

Peggy's husband was a soldier Steve saved in WWII, she says that in the recordings and when she has alzheimers she's glad "He came back" but that could be up to challenge.

>DC fans like things explained
Considering the movies make absolutely no sense lore-wise, of course they want everything explained. Marvel movies can be pieced together and it all makes sense in terms of the narrative.

Don't lie to yourself like that

Well I've actually watched every DCEU and MCU movie.

Eh, could all just be Peggy lying to cover up for Steve, who I would assume would tell her everything, and also to preserve the timeline.

we only want reboots to explained in-universe rather than random number 1s all the time

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She could be lying to protect Steve's cover.

Pic related is how it works. End of fucking discussion.

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Third option: The Russos are hacks and they didn't think this through and just put him with Peggy because it was the popular theory.

>was he always Peggy's never-before-seen husband in the main timeline as part of a semi-stable time loop and was simply in hiding in order to preserve the timeline?
Oh shit

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>Peggy lying to present Steve making her think she has alzeheimer, she probably fakes her death too.
>Endgame Steve most likely never told Peggy about Hydra and SHIELD
What a shitty relationship but I bet the fucking is good.

Fucks his own niece

You're both right.

Not really. Even before the Ancient One goes on about that bullshit, it has to be explained that they can't just go back in time and kill baby Thanos because it wouldn't change their future. The only real way this works is if Cap used the Time Stone for his own benefit.

Daily reminder.

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Also will hold her when she's a baby at one point. Old Steve might still be fucking her, who knows, Peggy is dead and maybe Steve's kids are angry at him.

>Fucks his niece

Cant change present established by Hulk.
Present has old capt not via the transporter.
Plot hole.
Off screen husband? So he fucks his own niece? Guys. Give it up.
Bad writing is bad.
Time travel should have not been an option.

This doesn't work though

Removing the stones creates dark splinters, but that's just trivia. They explicitly rule out going back in time to kill Baby Thanos - which has nothing to do with removing stones from a timeline - because time travel "doesn't work like Back to the Future". For the Cap thing to work, it has to work like Back to the Future instead of the way they establish. All of these justifications pointing to the Ancient One and the stones are just red herrings to distract from the basic time travel mechanic that is set up and explained elsewhere.

he met up with her sometime in the late 40s to mid 50s (based on the cars) after souza died somehow, and married her.

First one makes more sense. Steve travelling to the past which would lead to the primary MCU timeline without causing any changes to it that would branch itself into a separate, alternate timeline, even if he was avoiding drastically changing history, just seems impossible. How did Steve fool everyone in the 40s that Captain America is still dead and that the new persona he has taken to be with Peggy just happens to look like the First Avenger? Or the generation of characters Post-WW2 never noticing that Peggy's husband just happens to resemble the war hero super soldier? Or even the fact that Sharon has never commented on the fact that Steve’s heavily resembles her uncle?

Also, it contradicts the Agent Carter TV series. Steve in Endgame travels to the past in 1943 to live out the rest of his life with Peggy. While the TV series, which takes place in 1946, depicts Peggy never reuniting with Steve at all, let alone having them conceal the true nature of Steve’s time travelling or both trying to hide his true identity from the public. In fact, the TV series begins with Peggy coping with Steve’s apparent death and accepting his sacrifice is a major theme of the two seasons. She never really finds closure or accepts he is really gone.

Causal.

Loop.

It means he was always going to go back in time because he already went back in time.

CAUSAL LOOP. IT DOESNT CHANGE ANYTHING, HE ALREADY WENT BACK BECAUSE HE ALREADY WILL GO BACK.

>You can't spend an entire series going on about how the character needs to move on from the past
fucking wot mate, that has never been Captain America's deal.

He's ALWAYS had to carry the weight of being a man out of his time, and nobody ever fucking tells him to just "move on."

Does it really matter?
He finally got to live the life he wanted with the woman he loved, can’t you just be happy for him?

why do you think its 1943? he went in the ice in 1945

Thing is, there was no indication that Steve stayed with Peggy, yes he came to the past to dance with her, but it doesnt mean he stayed as her husband, captain america's whole thing is not letting anybody step over anyone, that includes him, he lived his life knowing that Peggy had a husband and eventually a family, he shouldnt cuck them out of existence, and steve knows this, best case scenario, Steve just lived in the past, not with Peggy, but with peace in his heart, knowing its the time and place where he belongs the most, and stayed, not preventing anything to not fuck the timeline up, and just, for once in his life, live.

movie should have ended with the dance, everything would have been 10x better had they cut old man steve

>You can't spend an entire series going on about how the character needs to move on from the past
Samurai Jack was never about that, at all

Peggy did get dementia and probably forgot about Old Steve. You could even go as far as theorize that shen she says "You came back" she was tripping after seeing young Steve rather than the old Steve she was used to, and was reminiscing about their reunion in the 40's.

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Banner: Clint now you're gonna feel a little discombobulated from the chronoshift, don't worry about it.
Rhodes: Hang on, lemme ask you something: If we can do this, yanno, go back in time? Why don't we just find baby Thanos, and yanno.. [murder him]
Banner: First of all, that's horrible.
Rhodes: It's Thanos...
Banner: And secondly, time doesn't work that way. Changing the past doesn't change the future.
Lang: We go back, we get the stones before Thanos gets them; Thanos doesn't have the stones. Problem solved!
Barton: Bingo.
Nebula: That's not how it works.
Barton: Well, that's what I heard.
Banner: What? By who? Who told you that?
Rhodes: Star Trek, Terminator, Time Cop, Time After Time-
Lang: Quantum Leap!
Rhodes: Wrinkle in Time, Somewhere in Time...
Lang: Hot Tub Time Machine.
Rhodes: Hot Tub Time Machine! Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure! Basically any movie that deals with time travel.
Lang: Die Hard! ...No, that's not one of 'em.
Rhodes: This is known!
Banner: I don't know why everyone believes that, but that isn't true. Think about it: If you travel to the past - that past becomes *your* future - and your former present becomes the past - which can't now be changed by your new future! [[THIS KILLS "TIME LOOP"]]
Nebula: Exactly.
Lang: ...So Back to the Future's a bunch of bullshit??

>Why would they send Cap of all people by himself to go put the stones back?
It was either Cap or Thor since they also had to return Mjolnir

Who cares the ending was beautiful

I think the former - having THAT big of an effect on Peggy would definitely smash into alternate timelines.

There's also the implication he did a LOT more to other timelines than drop off the stones and Hammer. I really think the only stable loop was Dark World.

Casual Loop.
Aka plot hole.
Fucks his own niece.
It establishes you cant effect the present.
Ala loops arent possible.

>he fucks his own niece
this is just sick

He didn't. That was a different timeline where she married someone else. Cap going underground for 70 years isn't what he meant when he said he decided to try some of that life Stark told him to get.

You save the world as many times as Cap, you're allowed to kiss your niece at least once.

>Sharon isn't his blood niece
>They just kissed
>He wouldn't realize they're related by marriage until long after that kiss
>This is the same Yea Forums that faps to MCU's Peter Parker and Aunt MILF.

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There was literally a close up scene of his hand with a ring on his finger.

>THIS KILLS "TIME LOOP"
It doesn't, a time loop precisely requires that things don't change

Either of you explain how that works with Loki dabbing on out with the Tesseract.

It isnt a plot hole, thats not what a plot hole is.

Loops dont effect the present because they've already occurred.

He isnt related to Sharon.

Because he didnt travel the fuck through time with it faggot so it doesnt matter because that timeline didnt fucking happen once the two stones were put back in place.

replacing the stolen time stone from the newyork scene deletes the whole opportunity of him dabbing out

That timeline is probably abandoned as a lost cause, which will let Loki have a tv show.

>Thanos kills the stone
>no more stones
>they had to go deep in the past to get the stones
>Loki steals the space stone
>they have to go even DEEPER in the past to get the space stone

Goddamn I fucking hate time travel, even when it’s simple like you can’t change the future by altering the past there’s elements to it that fucking make no sense.

The logic of time travel established in the film definitely rules out loops.

No it doesnt.

Avengers 1 timeline space stone is stolen by Loki and taken somewhere unknown. This version of Loki is not brought back to Asgard and so Thor 2 and Ragnarok will most likely happen very differently.
UNLESS his escape is reversed by the Loki tv show if it actually happens.

So when Tony loses that version of the time stone to Loki, they go back FURTHER in time to the 70's. The 70's version of the time stone is brought to the present for Endgame and then Cap returns it immediately back to the 70's instantly after it was originally stolen.

That's the theory.

So Loki is still unaccounted for in the Avengers 1 timeline with the tesseract. Which I can only assume is to set up the tv show premise because Endgame Loki is still dead and was probably not brought back by Tony's snap because Loki was not originally dusted.

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Was there ever a mention of 9/11 or JFK even happening on the MCU?

I mean, there seems to be a similar theme pre-reboot. He always improved the lives of people he helped. Him going back into the past erased all that.

Nope. Xmen tried to say that Magneto caused JFK but then he later claimed he tried to save JFK but somehow derped with stopping a single bullet.

>Probably because JFK was actually accidentally killed by a secret service man discharging his rifle after being surprised by the first actual shot from Lee Harvey Oswwald or whatever his name is.

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>So Loki is still unaccounted for in the Avengers 1 timeline with the tesseract.

No, when they stole the space stone in the 70s, there was no space stone for Loki to steal

both, once cap went back in time to put the stones back where they belonged to he basically coalesced the divergent timelines into one result which is the endgame finale. So, yes he was peggy's husband all along.

Than you should be able to say how the movies don't make sense

In a way that is worse than Endgame

Yeah, that's what I'm saying, that DCEU movies don't make much sense canonically among themselves
>In a way that is worse than Endgame
Endgame made plenty of sense, stop watching movies with your eyes closed.

>No, when they stole the space stone in the 70s, there was no space stone for Loki to steal

I don't think that's the implication. In that reality (in the 70's), the stone went missing for about 2 minutes before being replaced.

However, I will grant to you that the cube itself doesn't exist anymore and has been replaced by its stone counterpart. So technically Avengers 1 events could still have happened, but just with a stone instead of a cube?

I'm honestly not 100% with the way time travel worked. Maybe the 70's timeline was a different timeline from the Avengers 1 timeline where Loki escaped?

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He goes through the same timeline again and takes the place of Peggy's husband. The timelines come together at the end or the point when he initially left. He's only there because he didn't fuck up and get himself killed.

you are thinking about this wrong, the order of events is taking place "all at once", so they went back in time to 2012, loki managed to scape and they went to 1970 to steal the cube.
However since both events actually happened and the cube was returned to 1970 by steve at the end of the film, a version of loki might still be out there with a space stone / tesseract.

>"I'll give no examples just accept I'm right"

Oh, the Marvel way

Did you not watch the movie? Cap went to return the space stone in the 70s.

The only solution is that he gets transported back to that exact spot after the events of loki tv

>"I'll give no examples"
Aquaman's motivations and discussion with Mera in Justice League, versus the same things in his own movie
And Wonder Woman's alleged "inactivity since the 40's or more until the present in Justice League, also contradicting her own movie and the upcoming one.

What they wanted to happen
>Give cap a happy ending by removing all his "I can't move on from the past arc, 70 years went by blah blah blah-> This world ainst so bad" and just gives him a happy ending with Peggy

Wat happened
>Gives the implication that Cap went back to thepast and lived there, creating two caps, one deep in ice and one deep in ass, which basically means that Cap is stuck in a loop, where he wakes up in ice, everything happens until Endgame where he has to live in the past.

What they said in the beginning went with cap, how his past will become his future

Literally goes against what Banner said

That ought to be the way it happens.

But with Marvel's track record with tv shows, I wouldn't put it past them to make a total fucking debacle of affairs. I haven't been impressed with any of their shows. To be fair I haven't tried Daredevil yet though and only watched a couple episodes of Punisher.

AoS is dumpster fire garbage though. Tell me I'm wrong.

That's worse than Endgame?? Cmon

What exactly is wrong with Endgame, you autist?

I had thought the implication was that Hulk was wrong and the past really can be changed

Time travel, cap and Tony's ending
CM ex machina

Bunch of other things

So nothing, basically. Go troll elsewhere, John Campea.

He doesn't say they don't change. He says they can't change. Not that as long as you don't save someone's life or kill the wrong mosquito everything happens the same way. Not that it's self correcting and fate will conspire to eliminate a paradox. He says you live a new future that is its own reality separate from the sequence of events you left behind.
>Changing the past doesn't change the future.
Gets no clearer than that.

See, Marvel fans just want to look at the pretty pictures

>he actually believe this

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How so with Aquaman?

Wonder Woman could just have been exaggerating

nothing, dcucks just grapping to any straws they can

Bruce tells her she was basically doing squat during that time and she was quiet as if conceding the point. Exaggerating or not, that shit felt like confirmation.
Aquaman's main issue was that Mera shows up and tells him she has Atlantis at his disposition and that he should take the kingdom, but in his own movie it turns out he's a "mongrel pretender" so clearly things weren't as clear cut as they seemed. Plus they were in some literal ruins and Mera talks to him with an air bubble as if it was something the Atlanteans regularly did to speak underwater, when they could've done that from the start.

The problem is basically Justice League setting up a bunch of shit that wasn't acknowledged in the solo movies, simply put. And that's a glaring issue because it shows some lack of planning for that movie in particular (because I actually enjoyed those two and Shazam).

WW Just didn't want to be a public hero

And they do talk about how royalty can breathe air and water in AM and they had a plan for him to take the throne

>Time travel
Fair enough. It's always a tough element to tackle in films and more than often done poorly. I think it was reasonably well explained in-film but there's still questions. Namely:

>Cap's ending
Did he live out his days in his original universe? Does that mean he kissed his own niece? Or did he live out his days in an alternate universe and only came back after Peggy died? Does this mean he basically retired immediately and allowed all events to happen as we saw them in the movies?

>Tony's ending
I had no problems with this. Snapping clearly cooked his body from the inside out and I was just happy he didn't have any cliched final words. No one even closed his eyes for him which I liked.
Worked narratively and symbolically as Ironman started and ended this whole wave of the MCU. It's only going downhill from here except for maybe Spiderman and Asgardians of the Galaxy. I didn't even have a problem with him saying "I am Iron-Man". I didn't take it as a quip. But instead he was just taking time to get his thoughts clear for the wish he was going to make before snapping.

>CM ex machina
Absolutely. 100%. She shouldn't have been in the movie. She shouldn't have even got her own movie. She's terrible and insanely OP. It was like Superman showing up in Justice League. Except at least Superman was mostly humble about it. Carol is a smug asshole all the time.

All things considered. Batman V Superman and Justice League are still incredibly bad movies and I don't think you'll have much luck convincing people otherwise.

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>Cap's ending
The latter.

Yeah, no shit. Whedon created a completely different movie from whatever the original plan was.

How would they be able to beat Thanos's bombardment then? Also you could argue any of other heroes weren't that needed for the final fight and were there just to get some cool moments.

Former,
his new universe is sustained by the existence of their children and gradnchildren, by present time they should be 1000+

That's pretty funny

So it doesn't collapse even after his return. Based.

>DC fans like things explained
it's not just fans, everyone wants it explained because shit's so incoherent.

It has to be an alternate timeline and he went back. The whole premise of the movie is that changing the past doesn't change the future. It's why Nebula doesn't disappear when she kills her past self, for example.

Yes. Banner says as much, I don't see how anyone denies it just because they put him on a bench instead of the platform for dramatic effect

He was at her funeral. Had been.
No need to spook himself at a ceremony he had himself set up.

The first

But that was my point. People are very nitpicky with DC films, because the fans care about detail

Marvel fans just care about cool scenes

It's more like no one cares about DC movies so they endlessly nitpick it.

By the power of writing!
Seriously though, wasn't Ragnarok Thor capable of blowing up space ships?

Doesn't matter so much.
My bigger issue is how Thanos is so strong.
I assumed he was getting passive buffs from the glove in Infinity War but he tanked a LOT of shit in Endgame by just being himself.

Wanda could have killed him but to be fair she's capable of some scary shit so I was okay with that. Looked like Cap Marvel probably could have blasted a hole straight through him with the feats she showed off.

>I was so relieved when Thanos KO'd her with the power stone and she's pretty much not seen again in the rest of the movie :)

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They had to nerf Thor just to make Captain Marvel look more powerful, but I'm pretty sure Thor could still take down the big battle ship if he prioritized it first instead of fighting mooks on the ground.

>It's more like no one cares about DC movies
This.

You can't really say Thor was nerfed here. It's just that he goes close combat as a bruiser while Captain Marvel is more of a tank, that's all. Thor is STILL the one who was the closest to killing Thanos himself, and actually did so.

I agree that Thor was a little nerfed. Even with being out of shape.

At the end of Infinity War (right before Thanos arrived on Earth), Thor was cleaning up shop by blowing up the remaining drop pods and space ships. He's clearly capable of it.

I can only argue that in Endgame he was too preoccupied with slowing down Thanos personally. The whole point of the fight was to keep Thanos away from the glove.

Cap Marvel is a tank, yeah. She hasn't taken any actual damage while in her super form. It took the power stone just to KO her but presumably she's fine after waking up.

But I still feel like Thor was nerfed. He seemed much more destructive in Infinity War.

>implying Cap had children with Peggy
it's AUNT Peggy you dolts.

I wouldn't even say nerfed, because Stormbreaker was still the most powerful weapon ever. If anything, Carol had the advantage of having more stamina/energy due to showing up late

If it was the latter than he kissed his granddaughter all sexy on the mouth

It wasn't the first one because to go back to your own timeline you have to go back through the time machine

The former, I think.
I say the former because it's the only way to explain why The whole universe didn't reset when they killed past Thanos and his army, since it would prevent IW from happening and thefore prevent the entirety of Endgame from needing to happen

What a load of shit. There's loads of mystery in DC that I never want answered. Marvel are usually the guys that over explain shit

It's more Bill and Ted then Back to the Future to be honest

The biggest crime of Endgame is that we didn't see Steve return the Soul Stone
Red Skull! What the fuck are you doing here! ?

I'm not ready to say goodbye to Cap :(

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Some of it's ambiguous, I guess if Cap didn't make any major alterations he could've remained in the main timelines past with Peggy, and that supposed husband and kids we heard about in Winter Soldier was all a cover up.

Alternatively, he could've just remained in an alternate timeline and then found someone to build a machine to bring him back to the main timeline eventually.

That still doesn't explain what happened to the timeline where Loki stole the Tesseract and the one where Thanos no longer exists because the 2014 version was dusted. Did Cap hunt down Loki?

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>They just kissed
Confirmed by M&M to have fucked when an interviewer asked if Steve was a virgin.

The missing Loki timeline is the big question.
I can only guess it's because there's a Loki tv series coming up and "our" Loki is dead so top-mischievousness Loki from Avengers 1 is going to be TV Loki.

Hopefully it's just a 1 season mini-series that ends with Loki and the tesseract being returned to the same place and time as he escaped from.

But of course we all know Disney wants more money so that's unlikely. MILK IT ALL TILL IT'S AS DEAD AS STAR WARS

underrated post

I'm disappointed that Cap and Red Skull never interacted.

Maybe we can get a All Hail the King style short?

Do they explicitly state what year he goes back to?

The show could revolve around Loki and his adventures in the other timeline, or it could begin with a bang and show Cap tracking him down and bringing him back to the main timeline, then shenanigans ensue. But I wouldn't be surprised if we get a surprise Chris Evans cameo in Loki, since these Disney+ shows are supposed to be more relevant and tie into the movies.

But I agree they should be streamlined stories with a beginning and end that aren't just milked and dragged out for the sake of it like CWs Flash or the Netflix shows. 5-10 hour long movies would be ideal, then that's it.

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Chris Evans was absolutely perfect as Cap

no one can replace him

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Cap captured him again

He just recovered the tessaract and returned home taking his place as Captain America.

While the past Captain America still lay frozen, forever.

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Has to be an alternate timeline.
Otherwise, where did the duplicate shield come from that he gives to Sam?

Hey Yea Forums: If you were a WW2 veteran, got thrown into the modern day for a few years, then time traveled back to the 1940s, what would you try to change for the future?

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>because that timeline didnt fucking happen once the two stones were put back in place.

But Loki taking the tesseract didn't have anything to do with the stones being missing.

No, because Cap had to return the space stone to the 70's, remember?

On what side of the war are you a WW2 veteran? Because you've got some very different answers depending on that.

Same

Finnish side

Why did Loki liked turning into Cap so much? Was it a crush?

What the Ancient One was talking about:
removing the stones might fuck up the timeline. Banner suggests they get around this by returning the stones to back when they took it. Ancient One isn't yet aware that the others will fuck up the Ancient One's timeline with small changes like Loki taking the tesseract, Star Lord getting knocked out before the Power Stone is taken, past Nebula getting killed, Thanos and his army getting dusted.

Cap goes back to a time prior to taking any of the gems. If he hasn't made any changes to the timeline then he might have gotten back to his timeline the hard way. But then that raises the question of him not letting people know ahead of time of things.

I think he was jealous that Thor liked Cap more than Loki.

I hope would love that.

>I wanted out of character bullshit written by Mark Millar

Me neither I'll miss his luscious boobies

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It's a fucking joke.

Me neither ;——;

Where does the Ancient One say those very words again? "Causal loop"? Otherwise, you're pulling shit out of your ass.

I bet you even made that post you capped.

>DC fans like things explained
Explain why Batman v Superman was so awful, then.

My dick was diamonds when I saw Mjolnir being picked up. I KNEW it was cap.

Bingo.

The one thing Sam will never inherit

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twitter.com/CutonDime25/status/1121928904019673090

oh no Capbros what do we do?

Avengers-1 Era Thor did a number on the Chiaturi.

Ragnarok Thor could have dealt with the ship with the help of ANTS. You know. TEAMWORK. Something the Avengers are known for.

Fuck, Strange could do it.

Imagine a combined assault by Rhodey and Thor as a distraction.

The Wizards open portals to stop the bombardment, then open more portals above the ship so it ends up shooting itself. Wanda raises some of the landing ships to block the shots. Groot grows a shield over part of the battlefield to stabilize the impromptu shields being held aloft by Wanda, screams I AM GROOT.

Thor goes up and lightnings some of the turrets. Rhodey helps.

Sam flies up, Clint is grabbing onto him with his legs, and Scott is on Clint's arrow. They have one shot. Clint shoots Scott into the "control room" of the ship. There's silence except for the continuing bombardment.

And then slow-mo ANTS starts growing out of the ship. It starts breaking apart as ANTS keeps growing. It starts crashing, ANTS grows and grows ending up holding the ship up against the upper atmosphere like Atlas. Then hurls it back into space.

"NOW RABBIT!" Up in space, clear of everything, Rocket in a ship flies Thor. "You're clear, fatty!" Thor summons Mjolnir and Stormbreaker, Sailor Moon-esque semi transformation as each goes to a hand, something along the lines of I AM ASGARD. Hint at Odinforce. Hits both weapons together while facing the ship. BOOM. Odinforce blast. Complete destruction of the ship while Thanos stares upwards in anger.

The only explanation that wouldn't break any of the established time travel rules (changes in the past creates an alternate timeline and not changing the present time) is that Cap created an alternate timeline where he married Peggy until she died, and went back to the original timeline sometimes earlier before he left to do the old man Steve surprise to the team.

wait, where does the second shield come from that he gives sam at the end? if he lived through the normal timeline then that sheild was destroyed???

i feel stupid. what the fuck.

It's from another timeline. either that he got a new one from Wakanda before he went back and returned the stone, he just stashed the shield somewhere else for old man Steve to take and give to Sam.

so like wtf now?

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Me neither! I liked his happy ending but still...

THIS

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I bet it was after 1970.

based

kek

this tbqh

Your present can’t be changed jumping back to the past then to the present again.

Your past can change if you just to the past and stay there like cap did

>America's ass
>using Mjolnir and its lightning powers
>leading the huge teleported army against Thanos
>got his dance with Peggy as the last scene of the first MCU era
I couldn't care less about the characterization that supposedly goes against past movies. That gave me all I wanted from Cap's retirement.

This just makes less sense when you consider that he'd have to let Peggy in on him staying in the past, there's no way someone like her would be willing to be with Steve if it meant being knowledgeable about Howard dying/Shield/The invasion of New York/9-11 and doing nothing about it.

hulk discusses with sorceress supreme that putting the time stones back gets rid of the alternate time lines or makes them unreachable or something.

so retired cap was in the original timeline

>wanting more ooc ruining the character when the ending had enough.
Why

You don't have to do nothing about it, you just have to help in small ways the Avengers don't notice.

Harry Potter 3 works on the same system - the kids travel back in time and affect things, but they never actually change the timeline. All their actions happened the first time around, they just never realized.

Old Steve living in the past could actually explain the weirdly low death counts we saw during the major Avengers battles.

>"Hey Peggy, have you ever considered making sure these ten blocks in the middle of NYC are really sturdy and designed to easily evacuate civilians in case of, uh, I don't know, sudden alien invasion?"

This, really. They listened to plebbit and tumblrites

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>Madame B, but English
WHAT DID THE RUSSOS MEANT BY THIS??

Shit makes more sense if it's the former. Even if there isn't as much evidence for it, it makes the plot less messy if it's the former, so I'll go with that

This

The Confidence!

You just contradicted yourself. If killing baby Thanos wouldn't change anything why would living a new life in the past do?

so cap basically became a hikki so he could live with his waifu. that's even worse than thor's beergut wrenching bender. at least thor has the option of hitting the treadmill and going on keto

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but you know they're going to use that as an excuse to bring him back (for his own series) though

The best thing this movie has given me is watching people scream at each other over theoretical physics.

No, if that was true Bucky and Cap would suck face at the end.

Most Tumblr posts I've seen hate the Cap ending and claim is "disrespects Bucky".

>that shot where cap with his broken shield was fully prepared to take on an entire fucking alien army with tanks, carriers, and thanos

absolute kinography

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Banner mentions "he blew past his time.mark" when they freak out after he doesn't respawn on his plataform

So he did travel back, just to another time point, he probably went back a day earlier after his Peggy died, rested a bit and drove all the way there just to sit on a bench and quietly wait for Sam

INCEST TIME LOOP,LMAOO
It's funny how the Russos pushed so much for this scene, barely made sense,and now it became worse. What a way to shit in both characters

>deciding between bad and bad
the Russos shouldn't write Cap into that corner,then. That just proves even more that they don't care.

Bingo.

>f you travel to the past - that past becomes *your* future - and your former present becomes the past - which can't now be changed by your new future

This is just meaningless pseudo-intellectual nonsense.

Are you fucking retarded?

She Peggy's niece not daughter you dumb fuck,

Plus, if his plan was to ditch 2023 and live in the past, he'd probably have insisted he had to go.

Fuck I just realized that Old Steve must be over 100.

Super serum aging is slower.

/thread

>All these threads over this many days and no one has ever mentioned America's Ass

I did, but the thread got pruned.

Between that and bara-daddy Professor Hulk this film may have awakened something in me.

does this mean cap tried to bang his granddaughter?

can't be a time loop since they explicitly said several times they aren't a thing.

I'm just glad Steve was able to live most of his life in the 20th century, and not having to deal with all the bullshit we have right now. He's too pure for this.

he's alive in 2023 and still got a good decade or more of life left unless he bites a bullet or something. clearly he showed that his mind hasn't gone yet, so he not only lived through 2019 a second time, he had to deal with the stuff we have now and will have in the future.

Has to be stable time loop.

He doesn't have to do nothing at all. He's not bound by any time travel laws like not changing the future.

The only issue is his other self under the ice. I can't see him not going after Bucky immediately, but would he really leave himself in the ice for 65 years, knowing what it does to him? And if he did find himself, now there's two of them in love with Peggy. She get two husbands now or something? Living the dream, that lady.

Attached: americasass.jpg (540x538, 56K)

Sharon was Peggy's great-niece, and wouldn't have been related by blood to Steve anyway.

>cap and peggy as that nice young couple who don't have kids but still volunteer to be baseball coaches and give back to the community
cute

Dude, he has the bracelet and he's still in the quantum tunnel (given that he never showed back up on the platform). He can travel to any timeline or any place, assuming he has Pym particles. And he knows where to get Pym particles.

He could be 500 years old, for all we know.

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If it's a time loop/Steve just lived through the original timeline as Peggy's husband and didn't change anything, where'd he get the shield from? He didn't take it when he went back with the stones and the original would be in the ice with frozen Cap. Did he let Howard know he was alive and had him make another but just left out the getting killed by Bucky thing in order to preserve the timeline?

It's NOT a time loop.

He can do whatever he wants. Assuming he didn't just take the shield from the new timeline, he knew where there was more vibranium to get Howard to make another shield. The shield did look a little different/unfinished if you ask me.

sys.4channel.org/co/imgboard.php?mode=report&no=107222703
pestilen/tv/ermin are Yea Forums's greatest scourge. No matter the cost, they must be purged.
Report each and every single live action thread on sight.
If they aren't deleted, or if you get wrongfully banned, politely appeal to the mods by using the feedback function and speak to them directly on IRC explaining why the threads should be removed (they lead to gratuitous amounts of off topic shitposting, political bullcrap, psychotically belligerent brand fanaticism & false flagging for the sake of trolling, etc.). Furthermore, you can try to convince them that by consolidating discussion of all live action movies and TV shows to Yea Forums, their jobs will be made much easier since their attention to shitposting in those threads will be more focused if they're on one board instead of two.

>everyone and their mother calls Cap's fling with Peggy's niece creepy
>they double down on it in Endgame and make it borderline incestuous

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High in the Halls of the posts that are gone
Janny would dance with his trolls
The self worth he has lost and hot pockets he has made
The posts that upset him the most

The healthy weight thats been gone for so very long
He couldn't remember his face
They spun him around on the damp blue board
Spun away all his money and days

And he always does it for free
Always does it for free
He always does it for free
Always does it for free

Attached: cap disgust.png (469x456, 450K)

If Gamora can stick around despite originating from another timeline, younger Thanos can die before the point where his older version was originally supposed to die, and the older Nebula can live despite killing her alternate younger self, does that mean you can bring any people at all from any spot in the past to the present, and it doesn't cause a time paradox or create a branching timeline with a fucked-up future? Like, going back in time to meet someone who's supposed to be dead in the present, and bringing them to your own time would work without any problems? Or maybe even bringing multiple versions of the same person from different points in timeline? And as long as you don't do anything that involves Infinity Stones, you don't ever have to return them back to their original time?

Attached: Tentacle-army-day-of-the-tentacle-38444534-600-279.jpg (600x279, 126K)

>had no idea the army would come
>thought Tony and Thor were down for the count
>already had his ass beaten 3 ways from Sunday
>still gets up and marches forward to fight on
What a fucking guy

tony's dead now so they can't figure it out

As long as the realities have their stones it'll be ok. There'll be diverges but the universes will remain stable and liveable.

I liked the joke in the Cap v Cap fight, but I really wish they'd saved the "I can do this all day" callback until that moment.
It was pretty kino anyways.

>Banner mentions "he blew past his time.mark" when they freak out after he doesn't respawn on his plataform
This guy gets it

Peggy's niece had to know, right?

Attached: 1505173263083.jpg (234x216, 17K)

Yuh.

It's not the point of the scene. Don't ruin a good ending for yourself by getting hung up on time travel minutiae.

>I don't see what Obama has to do with anything.
Fixed that for you

>still angry about black man who hasn't been president for three years

Yeah, neither Captain America or Samurai Jack were about that.

Considering every Marvel-related iteration is connected thanks to the Multiverse concept:
The Avengers from Earth-199999 are basically stuck on a time loop. Are they unintentionally creating different Earths that are basically copies? Wouldn't the Living Tribunal or other entity intervene?

Yeah, now their lives were never ruined by Aku in the first place. What Jack did in the future was triage, and it was extremely clear that it wasn't fucking working. By going back, he cured the disease.

I get that season 5 was rushed and clunky but please think about the themes of the series on more than a completely surface level.

You do know that Jack's ONLY goal for the entire series was to get back to the past, right?

Newt Gingrich hasn't been in office for 20 years.
And Obama was a class A racist piece of shit. I don't care what color the guy was, he was scum and I hated all his policies

That's not what the screencap was arguing though. It claims that time-travel creates a temporary universe that will disappear into nonexistence after the time-traveler leaves it, unless if the traveler takes an infinity stone with them; only in that case a new permanent timeline branch will be created.
I didn't understand it that way while watching the movie and I'm still uncertain if that was the intention of the story, but I'm trying to make sense of that theory now.

Anyway, if that screencap's explanation is correct and messing with the past doesn't actually leave alternate timelines to exist, that sounds like a pretty big game-breaker. The characters could just travel into a moment that took place a short time before the death of some character or a historical person, and bring them to the present day without creating new timeline branches that have questionable futures. And since we saw two Nebulas existing at the same time, apparently you could bring multiple time-duplicates, which creates an opportunity for some massive time-travel abuse.

I don't think has it right. The dark realities that the Ancient One was describing are dark due to the loss of the Infinity Stones, not because the timeline itself changed. They needed to return the Stones to prevent that dark reality. The confusion stems from the fact that they used a fucking line to convey the branched off dark reality, which people seem to think means that ANY time travel changes they make are magically all undone. That's not what the Ancient One is describing.

Think about it - they can create new timelines without removing the Infinity Stone. Ergo, returning the Infinity Stone does not automatically remove the alternate timeline. It just means that it isn't bound by a dark fate.

Finnish? Let it happen like it did. Yeah they lost Karelia but now the country is pretty successful. Irrelevant, perhaps, but in a cosy and isolated way.

Some effects in the future MUST happen!! Remember, Thanos skip to the future from the first movie of "Guardians of the Galaxy", which means his actions from that point could never happen. Think of this:

- He wasn't there to attack and destroy Xandar and the Nova Corps.
- He wasn't there to kill half of the survival Asgardians, including Heimdall and Loki.
- He wasn't there to take Vision's gem, so Vision should still be alive.
- Thanos couldn't sacrifice Gamora to take the Soul Gem; and if Cap returned it to where it was, then "a soul for a soul" should bring us Natasha back.
- Thanos wasn't there either to destroy Knowhere and the Collector.
- Since Thanos wasn't there to gather the Gems ans then destroy them, the gems should be restored. Besides, energy can't be destroyed. You can destroy a vessel as the gems, but not the power they contain. That power has to go somewhere.

That's the way I understood it while watching the movie, too. But time-travel is often kinda complex so I wasn't sure.

If it works like that, it still opens up some awkward possibilities. Fetching multiple time-travel duplicates is still possible, such as bringing two hundred copies of Captain Marvel into a fight against Thanos; you just have to return them back afterwards because they're needed in their own times.
Also, if any action of time-travel will leave behind a new timeline with the changes you've made, you can't know for sure how your actions will change that world's future. You're gambling with the lives of everyone in an entire timeline. Like for example, there's now a timeline where Hydra thinks Cap is one of them. Presumably this might help Cap find out about the infiltration sooner, but there's no way to predict what other variables it will affect, and whether the overall change will turn out more positive or negative to that universe.

If changing the past has no effect on the future they could have just gone back and killed IW Thanos with stormbreaker

>Some effects in the future MUST happen!! Remember, Thanos skip to the future from the first movie of "Guardians of the Galaxy", which means his actions from that point could never happen.
That goes directly against what Banner said. And his actions from that point didn't happen in the reality he jumped from. Don't listen to wrong people talking about loops and time travel consistency, user. This is multiple timelines rules, movie made that abundantly clear.

So in the timeline that Thanos came from, none of that stuff ever happens. Gamora is alive, Nebula and Thanos are dead, and things change as a result of that. There is no absolute; only things that can happen and things that did happen. But what can happen cannot negate what did happen (in a different version of reality)

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if its B he fucked bucky over for no reason

HE was always

This is pointless arguing.

Even if it's multiple timelines or whatever, cap had the technology to hop between them, like they did from 2012 to 1970. The machine only helped them get back.

Plus, he could've literally gone to the future, get the de-aging machine, de-age peggy and bring her with him to the 50s to live in secret.

Plus, he could've just tried to fix everything that went wrong (911, JFK), but each day he woke up and he hadn't undone anything that wasn't immediately close to him a la groundhog day because the stones had rubber-banded reality back together, and then both Hulk and Ancient One are correct, and causal-loops aren't possible but it also doesn't violate the changes he did.

He could've talked to Odin/Strange/Hulk/Pym/Ancient One to jump him forward/back in time since it was always the universe at stake.

The bigger issue is how is reality going to keep together now that the stones are gone?

The timelines stuff was avoided after Cap returned the Gems and Mjolnir to their propers places in time. Still, Thanos disappeared from the past and skipped to the future. So, if reality is going to correct itself, it means soem stuff should happen; like the Gems being restored and Vision being resurrected.

In Marvel Comics, when reality is manipulated, there are consecuences, like "House of M" restored Hawkeye back to life.

>if any action of time-travel will leave behind a new timeline with the changes you've made, you can't know for sure how your actions will change that world's future.
So just like normal then? Time travel or not, we can never be certain exactly how our actions will change the future, for better or for worse. All we can do is the best we can in our present moment. Unless we're Strange with Time Stone shenanigans.

>yfw this happens

Forgot the spoiler

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But this isn't the comics. The movie setting explicitly established its own rules on time travel. The movie expects you to just accept Banner's explanation, which means there is nothing to correct, because it just created a new future separate from the one we're familiar with. Taking the stones is especially bad because it splits those alternate realities into disaster as they have less to defend themselves against dark forces, but in general there is no "fate" just infinite possibilities resulting from choices or in this case, time travel.

Taking the stones (possibly just the Time Stone) is what creates an Alternate Timeline.
Nothing else creates an alternate timeline. Going back and killing Hitler before WW2 does nothing, it just creates a dead Hitler in your "present", while in your past Hitler was still up to WW2 shenanigans. There was nothing they could do to prevent the snap, it was part of their history.

I know this is not comics, otherwise, Iron Man's resurrection would be assured. But still, there are things to correct. Like I said, leaving aside time travel, energy can't be destroyed, only the vessels that contain it (like the Gems). Therefore, the power of the Gems had to be sent somewhere, you can't destroy such power. Which means, the most logical thing is that the stones will eventually restore themselves. And when that happens, changes in reality will follow to stabilize it.

>he hadn't undone anything that wasn't immediately close to him a la groundhog day because the stones had rubber-banded reality back together,
Citation desperately needed
>both Hulk and Ancient One are correct,
They are in the movie. The implication that only taking a stone can alter the history we're familiar with is a misinterpretation of AO's dialogue and priorities. It's more that the stones are needed in any timeline so that reality doesn't get fucked up by cosmic threats. The branch she was talking about wasn't any branch in general, but a specific "no infinity stone" branch that's super ultra bad

Ancient One helps Cap

the moment cap did not return after 5 seconds, the the timeline split and what we see after that point is divergent from the main MCU

It's not exactly the same. When you're living your life, you don't have access to knowledge about the future or possible alternate realities, but a time-traveler does have that knowledge. So if they mess with the past and rewrite reality, they're directly responsible for the new changes and their potential unintended consequences.

Does Yea Forums know about this? They are all about that Wife Husbandry shit.

Interesting theory but I don't see why history would need to change for it. Banner makes it clear that history as we recall it is relative and not subject to time alteration or fate correction. So if the stones do restore themselves, the stuff that happened will still be the stuff that happened. Stones popping back up will just be another thing that happened, no need to change anything that happened before.

First bit is incorrect. Taking the stone just creates a specifically very bad alternate timeline, a severe split. Because taking the stone leaves a reality vulnerable to dark forces and creates a timeline where millions suffer. Putting it back erases that change and takes it off the path to destruction.

The rest of your statement is correct. Killing baby Hitler doesn't erase the version of history you're familiar with, it just creates a new future without Adolf Hitler. You can choose to stay and see how that plays out or go back to your original time that was shaped by Hitler having already lived and affected history.

Sounds like a moral issue more than an issue with time travel mechanics. Great power, great responsibility, et cetera. And anyway, since there is no destiny or fate that we must follow, whatever new future that arises is no less inherently right or wrong than the one we left. It's just another place where different things happened.

It was a shit ending for Cap which went against all of his character development from the previous movies that the very same writers and directors made

You are forgotting a very important detail. Remember, when the Mind Gem was attached to Vision, it was like there was a mind inside of it. Ultron, JARVIS, Vision himself and more became part of the Mind Stone. They were surely submmited by Thanos' gauntlet or something; but once the power of the Gems were freed because of the Gems' destruction, Vision's mind could have taken control of such energy.

how so?

Caps entire character is being a man out of time. This is him finally finding his place

I wish he didn't whisper it.

So you think in a future movie or series Vision might will himself back into existence with the ambient energies released by the destruction of the infinity stones? That sounds cool as fuck. Wanda deserves a break, anyway.

Not from Cap's point of view I think. In a manner of speaking he did move on. He was given an opportunity for happiness and instead of denying himself that to be the soldier he should be, he grasped that opportunity and lived the life he truly wanted to but had up until that point been an impossible dream.

Yeah, getting all serious and gravelly for the "assemble" took some oomph out of it. It's a battle cry, come on

They didn't create a single alternate timeline because Quantum Realm travel was only across 199999 timeline. If it was an alternate timeline, the gems wouldn't have worked as the rules says a set of infinity gems can only work on it's own universe.

Branching timelines or not, does this mean Cap lived through the creation of SHIELD and never once mentioned there might be Hydra agents in it?

Attached: a mind is a terrible organ to shovel.jpg (600x454, 41K)

Let's try to be more clear. Yes, Vision could bring himself back into existence with the power of the Gems, but before he does that, his connection with the Gems could reveal him "anomalities" in reality caused by both Thanos and the Avengers' use of their powers. So, he will first fix these "anomalities" before restore himself and the Gems back to normal.

Film series seems to march to its own drum on this one I'm afraid. But we could just say it's a bunch of different alternate realities in the same universe. Earth-199999-1, Earth-199999-2, etc. Infinities within infinities.

Or there's a timeline where he did do something about it. Or maybe something else he did made it so he never needed to. Any number of things. It's no longer the history we know because Cap's relative present is not bound by ours.

What specifically do you mean by anomalies?

like princess yue becoming the moon except it's vision becoming the soul stone?

I think that user meant more like Vision reforming himself back into Vision because his sentience was preserved within the mind stone, and he was somehow able to harness the cosmic energy dispersed by the stones' destruction to remake himself. But now he's talking about Vision taking some specific action which I don't really understand.

>Steve Rogers fucked his own niece.

Attached: Realization.jpg (381x235, 17K)

that could have been an interesting direction to take the finale, vision sabotaging thanos's plan from the inside somehow

There is no time loop. He didn't slip his grandkid the tongue, Peggy married someone else in that version of reality.

They kissed once and then apparently stopped seeing each other

Well, like I said, even if the gems are returned to their proper place, Thanos' absence from the past could cause consequences because he wasn't there to do several things. Some examples:

- Nidavellir could be restored and the dwarves resurrected, as Thanos wasn't there to kill or slave them.
- Xandar and the Nova Corps could be restored too because Thanos wasn't there to destroy them for the Power Stone.
- If Cap returned the Soul Gem to its place, the deal about "a soul for a soul" should be "inverted" and bring back Natasha.

Finally, Russos brothers confirmed that, after Thanos took the Soul Gem, we was freed from his curse, left Vormir and could start his own ambitions for the Infinity Gems. Which means, taking Thanos' place, we could now have the Red Skull to deal with him.

Yeah, I don't really understand what it's saying.

Nice!

>Citation desperately needed
I'm not saying it happened, only that the movie doesn't state it can't.

>The branch she was talking about wasn't any branch in general, but a specific "no infinity stone" branch that's super ultra bad
The branch they are on now doesn't have any stones.

steve being there might have butterfly effect changed events so that the exact sperm that would have become sharon didn't. maybe he doesn't have a niece in that timeline.

>Cap's face when returning the Soul Stone and seeing Red Skull

Attached: birb.jpg (576x1024, 56K)

Means you travel to a different version of the past, that then becomes your present and creates a new future. Different timelines.

Everything done in the past causes consequences. Time just goes on. No fate, no meant to be. Just what happened, and what can happen. Time doesn't need to be repaired, only protected from heading down fucked up bad wrong paths which is the Sorcerer Supreme's job.

>The branch they are on now doesn't have any stones.
I'm assuming that's gonna be a big deal especially in any Doctor Strange sequels. Excited to see what happens when, as AO puts it, they lack their "greatest weapons" against the cosmic forces of darkness.

>- Nidavellir could be restored and the dwarves resurrected, as Thanos wasn't there to kill or slave them.
So where's Vision?

>Banter
>Asks if he can get anything back for returning the stone
>"All sales are final, Herr Rogers."
>Cap hurls the gem off the cliff and leavesI
>Schmidt goes back to playing fortnite as noobmaster69

Attached: 1523787743566.png (112x112, 20K)

That time's version of Vision or our version?

would cap try to kill him? just for old times sake?

technically that scene that happens is a different timeline than the one he left from

My money is still on the first and he just appeared on the bench for dramatic effect, making the whole thing confusing

the second just doesn't seem to work with the rules laid out in the movie

Pointless innit?

Probably out there, somewhere. His body was still destroyed, but his mind may have become somekind of "ghost" because of the gems' powers.

I mean, we know of at least one of such beings, and now we have a bunch of them coming over from FOX.

Attached: 350px-Dormammu_in_Doctor_Strange_2016_film.png (349x144, 75K)

Forget about what Banner said and focus on Stark. He didn't want to time travel in the first place because he didn't want to lose his new found life (his wife and his daughter). By the way, never thought I would see a version of Tony Stark who will married and have a kid.

And since Stark seems to be smartest than Banner, as their time travel's experiments were disastruos until Stark perfectioned, it clearly proof that if you change the past, it CAN affect your present.

Which Sam also gestures to and verbally acknowledges. And Steve verbally acknowledges that acknowledgement. In short, the guy to whom you have responded is a moron.

>Forget about what Banner said
Right off, gonna have to say no. A lot of people are trying to do that, I can't become one of them. Not even for you, user.

First, that was before he figured out how to do it properly. Second, he never said he was worried about erasing them from the timeline, he just thought trying to do more cosmic superhero shit risked what he already had and spoilers it did, so it was never about accidentally erasing Morgan from the timeline, it was about Stark wanting to leave well enough alone for once after being let down time and again.

Morgan is such an awful name for a girl. Jesus, Tony.

Morgan, as "Morgan Le Fay". Something coming?

And Tony WAS worried about erasing them from the timeline, as he wanted to bring back all the dusted people to the present, while the Decimation could have been stopped the moment it happened and avoid the suffering for surviving people for 5 years.

>And Tony WAS worried about erasing them from the timeline,
No, he was worried about risking them. He never said anything about erasing them by altering the past. I promise I paid close attention. There are more ways they could have been put in danger by working with Steve and co. than just Back to the Future style altered history hogwash. And Banner's explanation came after he'd been working with Tony on the designs.

it's a callback to a line tony had in another film, where he said he dreamed him and pepper had a kid and they named it after pepper's weird uncle morgan

He fooled Peggy with a fake mustache the whole time

God damn it, Tony. Well at least she has cheeseburgers.

He got his ass whipped by a space god warlord, frankly it was a miracle he could muster that much.

You're a massive brainlet.

No, I'm not Steve Rogers! I'm his...cousin...Reeve Dodgers. Steve saved my life, and my mustache, in the war. Please stop asking questions.

That was Infinity War

[mustache half peels off]
[steve puts it back on all while maintaining eye contact]

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damn it, all the clues were there

Let me make this as clear as possible with laying out everything we know about time travel in the MCU.

1. When you go back in time you cannot change the future. This directly precludes the idea that what you do in the past has any effect on the future.
2. That means one of two things, either the time travel is a self contained causal loop or else it opens up a different reality.
3. The second option is actually specifically addressed in the film when the Ancient One and Bruce both talk about alternate realities.
4. Therefore time travel is actually just travelling between alternate realities.
5. This is doubly proved by the existence of Gamora - her soul stone sacrifice in Infinity War completely breaks any possible loop, likewise future Nebula killing past Nebula in the future also breaks the loop.
6. Therefore loop brainlets are utterly and conclusively BTFO and Cap did not kiss his own niece because he married Peggy in an alternate timeline and then came back to the original one to give Sam the alternate shield - where did you think he got that from after his old one was destroyed anyway?

The only issue is the Time stone, the other stone are useless, without the Time stone Dormammu invades

It's the ass, mainly

russos didn't have to do time travel. truly, they brought this on themselves.

This is how it works

Attached: Time Travel.png (2572x752, 174K)

>ywn have america's ass

Wrong, as proved by the death of past nebula and future gamora.

Why are you even pretending like you read the diagram when you clearly didnt.

I wish that guy had an open mind. Or a mind.

They wanted to homage the old movies, and managed to do it in a way that doesn't break canon, doesn't make time travel a crutch to fix every problem and doesn't get banned in China.

It is truly rather admirable.

The diagram doesn't actually explain it, just uses the classic brainlet defence of "I mentioned it therefore it doesn't hurt my argument."

Gamora and Nebula both utterly disprove ANY possible causal loop, because of the circumstances of their own respective deaths.

Okay explain it then.

Past Nebula dies in the future, how does she later show up in both Guardians movies and Infinity War and even Endgame itself?

No, retard. Cap performs a causal loop, the others dont, thats not what the fucking diagram is saying.

Not to mention Banner clearly states that is not how it works.

Hurrdurrrr time bubble splinterrr

Because its a Nebula from a temporary alternate timeline, for all intents and purposes a duplicate or clone.

That's exactly what it says you fucking dumbass. You can't even read your own diagram?

The argument it's proposing is that when you take an infinity stone out of a timeline that makes a divergent timeline, but that divergent timeline loops itself out of existence by the time the infinity stone is put back in, from the PoV of an observer in that timeline nothing ever happens and the loop occurs outside of it.

But the ability to take things in and out of that alternate reality permanently is therefore nonsensical. The picture doesn't explain itself, it just says "this is what happens" and asks you to believe it. so that it can hoodwink you with "cap is in a temporal loop because I want to rage at the fact he doesn't fix everything and tounges his own niece, isn't the MCU bad? XD"

>Cap performs a causal loop

>I decided to try some of that life Tony was always telling me to get.
>So I lived in hiding afraid to affect anything for 70 years while Peggy covered it up.
There are just no words.

Okay okay okay okay wait i think we have a misunderstanding here. I amended it to make it more clear.

The only one to perform a causal loop is Cap. The rest visit temporary realities created by their time travel, which only remain when they take a stone out. When they put it back, it is erased, and anything taken from the timeline while it exists now exists outside of it.

Attached: Time Travel.png (2572x752, 189K)

Take it up with the writers user.

I'm just thanking God you were never one of them.

Why? Im not fanficcing anything here, i'm just diagraming out how it works based on dialogue and mechanics shown. Blame them for making it like that, not me.

Wibbly wobbly timey wimey

Okay that makes slightly more sense however I still think it's wrong for one reason: the Avengers change events before they remove the stones and the best they can do is return the stone to exactly when it was taken. I.e. that still leaves - in at least some cases - massively changed events.

So what's your solution here? Are we assuming that when you return a stone it sort of 'smooths over' the mess you made?

It also fails to address Bruce telling us that changing the present through time travel can't be done - if Cap is part of a temporal loop then Bruce is utterly wrong about that.

We went over this enough yesterday, didn't we? Suffice to say I think you've grossly mischaracterized what the ancient one meant by her timeline splitting into a stoneless branch, which would leave her world defenseless. And then, what Banner says about erasing that branch by returning the Time Stone.

But you doggedly stick to your interpretation, making new rules about loops and bubbles and displaced time orphans. I really hate it, and the only reason I'm replying is so fewer people are bamboozled by your pure unwavering passion for your bogus explanation. Because these days you can apparently be right simply by being loud and unchallenged.

Both according to Polygon.

The visitation period is completely erased when they put the stones beack because the stones control how time works, so either that has to mean what happened when they were there, like Loki teleporting out, just ceased to occur, or it means the timeline is just bug fucked to shit.

It also cant be splintering timelines just from visting because if that were the case, Cap would never be able to return the stones, he'd just keep making more splintered timelines.

user i keep saying those things because theres no other way to word what the fuck is happening in the movie.

>>We went over this enough yesterday, didn't we? Suffice to say I think you've grossly mischaracterized what the ancient one meant by her timeline splitting into a stoneless branch, which would leave her world defenseless. And then, what Banner says about erasing that branch by returning the Time Stone.
user, one more time.

If time splintered just by travelling back, it would be fucking impossible for Cap to return the stones.

His solution is that those changes and experiences are erased by returning the stones, which contradicts Banner

As if this couldn't get dumber

How does it contradict Banner? Banner says you cant change the past, so that interpretation actually fits with what is shown.

This fails to explain Loki without making shit up

But it perfectly explains Loki.

Yes but the problem isn't splintered timelines, the problem is, as Bruce calls them, "Nasty alternate realities" where the infinity stones - which in the MCU seem to be fundamental controllers of reality. Removing a stone from a reality causes it to turn into one of the Ancient One's dark realities which is completely fucked because it's missing one of the six anchors it needs. Returning the stone means this doesn't happen but it doesn't completely loop the reality out of existence.

It still fails to properly explain how Cap can simultaneously be in a big timeloop and how Banner can be correct that you cannot change the present in the past.

Let's make this explicit, what Cap does in a hypothetical timeloop is change the present from the past, because in order to literally even exist in the present his actions in the past have to have changed the present. This is an action Banner specifically disallows.

At least you've outgrown allcapsing every other post. Progress.

Banner says you can't change your own past because the past becomes your new future. In essence, that by traveling to the past, you're making a new version of it. Returning the stones also does this. It puts it back on track to use them when needed, as opposed to dark forces winning.

No it doesn't, if they returned the Time stone to 2012 But did not give it back the the Ancient one, Earth is still fucked

Howcome Cap is in the main timeline when they specifically said going back in time doesn't affect the future?

His argument appears to be that when you return a stone reality is rewritten to be what it was meant to be. So simply dropping it off in that universe warps reality back to the correct path.

To me this is nonsensical and he can correct me I'm understanding him wrong.

That isnt at all what the Ancient One was saying. Once more, the reason she was apprehensive was in the event of them failing, THEN her reality would be left without a stone, because it would remain splintered.

And, once again, if simply going back in time creates splinter timelines, then it would be completely impossible for Cap to ever return the stones.

The stones control the flow of time, which means any changes made by time travel, so long as all are present, would simply not occur. So once they're put back, it would be as if Hulk never got it to begin with.

The best explanation is he emerged a few feet away from the platform for dramatic effect. Silly Russos.

Banner says you cant change the past because the present becomes your new past. Same happened with Cap. His future was living in the past he goes there and his new past is living in the present. Its a closed time loop.

New memetheory:

Cap holds on to one of the stones for 70 years, waits til peggy is dead and THEN returns the stone. So he lived in a 70 year long time branch which he then pruned after he was done with it.

The first one because otherwise they could have just killed baby Thanos but that was explicitly ruled out

Banner says you can't change the future, not the past. You can change the past all you like but it won't effect the future. This is why Rhodey can't just stop the whole thing by killing baby Thanos - Bruce explains that even if you kill baby Thanos the events of the future have already come to pass.

The point is that Cap's existence is a change, let alone whatever he did with Peggy.

>The stones control the flow of time
The stones create the flow of time as we experience it, eg the climax of the Doctor Strange movie. They don't govern different versions of history, much less.prevent them. You're assuming that via extrapolation of wording.

What the ancient one was saying, more than anything, is that without the Time Stone there would be no weapon to repel the forces of darkness. What Hulk was saying was he could give back the weapon thus erasing that particular change.

The Splintered black timeline is Dormammu and only him, that's all she cares about or she would be going after Tony and Antman as well

I still disagree but I guess we won't get any more info on what happened until GOTG3

It is nonsensical but thats the movies logic.

No it isn't

>The Splintered black timeline is Dormammu
No, it isnt. Well, yes it is but not how you think it is.

>and only him, that's all she cares about or she would be going after Tony and Antman as well
Which... She doesnt know about.

So she's clairvoyant but not THAT clairvoyant, eh?

Yes it is.

She knew Hulk was from the future, from her point of view, why would a time traveler need the time stone?

Banner tells her he's collecting the stones. She knows

She clearly seemed confused when Hulk showed up and obviously didnt fucking know what was going to happen in the conversation so clearly no she wasnt.

Stark, Cap, and Ant-Man arent with Hulk.

Why are you people so fucking dumb? Why? How do you survive your daily lives? It's so fucking simple and explained in your face several times. You cannot comprehend information in a comic book movie aimed at children, dwell on that, fucking brainlets.

>Did he live his life in an alternate timeline branched off by his decision to reunite with Peggy in the 1940's before ultimately returning home after her death

No, because he returned the stones a couple minutes after they were taken hence cutting off any alternate reality branching AS EXPLAINED A GORILLION TIMES IN THE MOVIE.

>or was he always Peggy's never-before-seen husband in the main timeline as part of a semi-stable time loop and was simply in hiding in order to preserve the timeline?

No! Because that's not time travel works in the MCU.... AS EXPLAIEND A GORILLION TIMES IN THE MOVIE. There are no casual loops, no grandfather paradoxes, no butterfly effect.

Here;s how it goes:

>Cap travels back in time and lives his life with Peggy
>this is the first time he has done it and the last one as well, since there are no casual loops in the MCU, you cannot change the past, if something happens it's always for the first and last time, it's unique
>Peggy did marry some other guy and lived her life with him
>then Cap traveled back and she married him, living her life with him
>both things happened, Cap traveling back does not erase the first marriage, it is happening sequentially

It is not hard guys, use your fucking brains, they are not there to just balance your ass. Sceencap this fucking post.

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>both things happened, Cap traveling back does not erase the first marriage, it is happening sequentially

If you say so.

My man i'd like to read what you're saying but im distracted by Scarletts heaving honkers.

And he's back to spergmode. You're wrong, user. All the capital letters in the universe won't change that.

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Do you think every user is the same gu? That aint me.

That was my first post ITT

Returning the stones to their proper places erases the branches that removing them created (Loki escaping, Hydra thinking Cap is on their side, etc.) but it doesn't prevent Cap from creating a new, less harmful branch.

I have a very large folder of these

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>Returning the stones to their proper places erases the branches that removing them created (Loki escaping, Hydra thinking Cap is on their side, etc.)

Those are not branches since the stones were not removed from their times.

>but it doesn't prevent Cap from creating a new, less harmful branch.

Only of he removes a stone from its timeline which as far as we know he did not.

You're right, my bad. But that's not quite right either. There is no "meant to be", no destiny. There is a version of Peggy that married Cap from the future and a version that never did. That does not mean Cap couldn't be Peggy's second husband, but it does mean he doesn't necessarily have to be. It doesn't matter, it's changed either way.

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Yeah I realize that now

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Can i say for as nice as her titties are, Scarjos ass is criminally underrated?

ScarJo seemed so much hotter and cooler and having fun in Endgame. makes me very sad

that would've been hilarious

When did Booker T start doing interviews for Marvel/Disney? You'd think the 5 Time WCW Champion could do better.

.

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Absolutely. That's America's ass(f)

Wait if Steve only went back to the 70s why the fuck is he so old?

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Serving at the behest of the Mouse isn't really 'above' anyone in entertainment, is it?

.

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He went back to the 40s. Didn't you see that new car driving by?

dat belly

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..

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That is probably the single most encapsulating example of bewilderment ive ever seen.

I think he didn't live through the main timeline but regardless I felt it was a little cheap 2bh
I'd rather him have just died

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He went back to the 40s actually, but even if he did go back to 1970, that'd make him 92 years old.

Born 1918, aged 27 years, then another 12 years in the present, so he's 39 years old in Endgame.

So if he went back to 1970, he'd be 92, and back to 1945, he'd be 117.

>I think he didn't live through the main timeline

What an ignorant statement, of course did, it's the whole point they are making

Okay, here me out guys.

From what I think the Ancient One and Hulk were dabbing about was that if you take a stone, you create an alt branch universe. If you put the stone back fast enough, the branch filters back into the main line. Why I think so is that from the image they had, once the stone was taken the line split into a black line but once the stone was put back, the branch filtered back down into the yellow line.

What I am proposing is that Cap putting the stones back fixed all the weird shit like Loki dabbing with a stone into fuck you land. What if Steve before putting all the stones back in place, used a stone to keep himself fixated into reality without fucking shit up while allowing another Steve to come from the ice allowing two Steves to exist as long as one Steve didn't meet the other. He is now in a stable loop.

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There are no loops in the MCU per canon.

Your second paragraph is correct, the third is messed up totally.

Also, Loki stealing the stone DOES NOT branch a reality since the stone was not removed from its time, how is this hard to understand? There is branching only when a stone is removed from its time, you literally say this in the second paragraph.

>Also, Loki stealing the stone DOES NOT branch a reality since the stone was not removed from its time, how is this hard to understand?

This is correct and it blows y mind how many people don't get it. It was done to set up the Loki TV show.

They clearly state that killing baby Thanos creates a different timeline
So any change would affect the past

That is assuming he lived through his original past history (impossible according to Banner) and didn't travel back to his point of origin after some unspecified number of years in the past to report his mission and say goodbye to Sam and Bucky.

If it's the latter he could be any number of years old, whether he went back to the 40s or the 70s, because he didn't wait there for them to show up.

No they don't. They said killing baby Thanos would not change anything cuz you cannot change the past.Only removing a stone from its time creates branches.

I hope you are trolling, because otherwise this short attention span of yours is scary.

But it doesn't affect the future as you remember it happening prior to your time travelling

If any change affected the past it would be physically impossible for Cap to ever return the stones they took.

One change negates the effect of another change for that iteration of reality only. It's different, but only that it's returned to being closer to the course it was on before time travel

he tells the hulk to bring snapped people to the present, not 5 years in the past, for this reason user

Stop with the head canon, tard. there are no iterations in the MCU.

That is not how Banner explained it. He says the past becomes your new future, which does not alter events of your past.

I trust Banner more than your warped interpretation of a few lines.

Yes it is

Literally pot calling the kettle

Not that user, but I trust the glowing orange neon visual aid that children can understand and my own logical reasoning that Cap cant put the stones back if time splinters just by travelling through it, user.

They can't change the past because in doing so you create a DIFFERENT future
The people snapped in the original timeline are still dead because in that timeline Thanos didn't die and you've fixed
They said BTTF lied but BTTF was correct because there were 4 different 1985s Marty visited

The kettle's rusty and falling apart in this case.

Your logical reasoning contradicts dialogue. The Ancient One just didn't want to branch into a new reality where the time stone can't be used as a weapon against the forces of darkness. All this alternate realities are against the rules shit is a result of misunderstanding, or even purposefully ignoring her concerns.

Interesting theory

>Cap goes back to 1946
>Tells Howard Stark to dig frozen Cap out
>Now neither Cap will miss out on their lives
>Peggy gets hot supersoldier DP action

The only thing the Ancient One is really worried about is losing the Time Stone before Stephen Strange comes to bargain with Dormammu. The main timeline now has no Stones and it’s not doomed. Presumably.

Wait, if Steve returns to the 70s to meet Peggy, because that's where he goes to return the stone, how has she not moved on 25 years later?

Not to mention leaving Bucky as a brainwashed assassin for decades when Steve knows exactly where Bucky is being kept.

Does she know?
It is implied that she can't see past her own death

>Your logical reasoning contradicts dialogue. The Ancient One just didn't want to branch into a new reality where the time stone can't be used as a weapon against the forces of darkness. All this alternate realities are against the rules shit is a result of misunderstanding, or even purposefully ignoring her concerns.
And YOU are completely ignoring that Bruce says you can erase the split timelines by just putting the fucking stones back, which is later refered to as "clipping the branches"

I don't see what's the problem.
He's a red blooded american male he can do whatever he wants.

Has to be another time line but doesn't explain how he appears on the bench as the timelines are observer dependent kinda

>Banner: And secondly, time doesn't work that way. Changing the past doesn't change the future.

Basically how time travel works in Dragonball Z.

Who knew DBZ had it right?

Erase as in negate the previous change, which is specifically stated to be "without our greatest weapon" my reality is doomed.

She couldn’t but the Time Stone was their greatest weapon against Dormammu. That’s what she meant about dark forces.

Yup. This is Dragonball style time travel, NOT Chrono Trigger style time travel.

Dragon Ball time travel is cribbed from Marvel anyway. Trunks was inspired by Cable.

And Kyle Reese.
Although some fucking how time travel is not like Terminator in DBZ.

Dare Devil Season 1 Episode 2 is Kino.

In my opinion this diagram explains it really well.
It's reality hoping, they never change the past.

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You're an idiot.

The branches are fucking erased at the end of the movie, how many god damn times must this be said?

Continue being wrong, then.

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There HAS to be 2 braches at least. Prime whichis where the MCU has happened thus far and a completely separate one where there is no longer a Thanos to affect world events after the opening of GoTG 1.

The question is how Cap got back to Prime on the park bench without using the time machine to come back from No-Thanos-World after returning the stones to them.

I've got it guys.

Maybe Steve just lived for a couple of years with Peggy, enough to get married with her, then when he came back Hulk fucked up the time machine again and caused him to become old.

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Fookin hell shes meatier than I thought she would be, and my dick loves it.

THAT ISNT HOW IT FUCKING WORKS.

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You can post that wrong shit until the heat death of the universe and allcaps every you ever type and it'll still be wrong. It contradicts what banner said about the past becoming your new future.

No it fucking doesnt, and even supposing it did, that shit is how the time travel is explained later and represented later any fucking way.

The former. Its parrallel universes

No it isnt.

Maybe he lived in an alternate timeline until he got old and then came back

Dr strange made a loop. Loki's reality branch will generate a tv series

>Those are not branches since the stones were not removed from their times.
It is a branch though. Even though Loki escaped with the tesseract and therefore was still in the same time, Cap took the scepter away from that time period as well as Hulk getting the time stone, thus making that a branched reality.

Never has this image proved its worth

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Correct.

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Niece fucker!!!!

>Disney owns Star Wars
>Does their own incest retcon

I guess that offical Archivist thing was bullshit or he fell asleep at the wheel

>Don't ruin a good ending for yourself by getting hung up on time travel minutiae.
wait until the blu ray for that

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>he had to bury her twice

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>the entire movie
This, but unironically

So they married for decades and never had kids?

Yep.

Idk but Hail Hydra

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yes

Means things you experienced don't change on their own and you eventually end up where you came from.

>implying Hulk would be dabbing if it was set in 2023

Steve WAS the husband

The former is the only way that makes sense.

But they're not blood related at all. She's Peggy's niece, implying Peggy's sister or brother had her.

Sharon isn't even Peggy's daughter anyway. She's her niece. Steve has no blood relation to her

Yeah this is correct.
He divorced her and she found a nee husband.
When he said he lived a good life he was lying, he went through three divorces and has to pay two allimony checks.

In the last scene he tried to sell the shield to sam before going to take his shift in the wallmart

time in Avengers works only to change the past's timeline in a more alternate way right?

you can't change what already happened in one timeline by going back and altering the past. that just creates a split parallel reality.

AH DEAR GOD I DONT UNDERSTAND PLEASE EXPLAIN IT TO ME ITS CONFUSING

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The stones aren't gone. They're destroyed and might reform at a future point. Realities were fucked when they were suddenly without one of the building blocks of reality, not if those building blocks were rendered into a form no-one could control them in.

you can't change things that have provably happened in the past. like if you travel back in time to kill thanos as a baby, well, thanos PROVABLY grew into an adult and killed half the universe. killing baby thanos would create a splintered timeline and not affect what happened in the original timeline that drove you to go back in the past in the first place. HOWEVER, if you go back to the past and don't change anything pertaining to the events that brought you in the past in the first place, that means you being in the past was theoretically ALWAYS the way it was meant to be. a causal time loop is NOT a time paradox. it is precisely NOT changing anything at all in the timeline, it was always the way it was meant to be. for instance, if steve did live a happy life with peggy in the main MCU timeline, then that was canon in the past movies, we just didn't see them grow old together because it didn't change anything in the main plot. they probably lived in secret by wearing baseball caps and shades all the time

Yeah and Luke Skywalker got French kissed by his sister a couple of times, so what?

You can't alter your own history through time travel, you can only create a new future different from the one you left.

If you take away an infinity stone, it destabilizes the reality it's taken from and leaves it vulnerable to forces of darkness that will wreak havoc, such as Dormammu. The time stone was the only weapon capable of halting his incursion, and taking that stone to a different version of reality creates a branch of history where Dormammu wins. But returning the time stone before that can happen erases that branch and puts that version of reality back on track to not get fucked by forces of darkness.

Honestly, the latter is the only way they're going to be able to fix this without making it either horribly confusing and then writing themselves into a corner.
Also this.

Did you mean former? Because the latter invites a lot more confusing nonsense about Cap in permanent hiding and refusing to do anything at all for 70 years while the world goes to hell around him. Some life he got.