The rumors posted last night were mostly true
>Wally killing everyone is an accident.
> He hijacks some of Booster's VR tech and uses it to convince both Booster and Harley that one-another is the killer. Then used Booster's time travel tech to go forward five days in to the future, kill his future self, and bring him back and frame up the crime scene.
> He did this to distract everyone and give himself five days to leak everything to Lois Lane.
op of the thread yesterday, I didn't get anything wrong so don't know why you felt the need to make the same thread
"5 days" and Flash shouldn't be in the same fucking sentence.
This doesn't even make sense.
Why go through all that trouble if he's just going to confess? Why not just turn himself in?
Your mistake is thinking King is a competent writer
Why doesn't he just go back and kill himself?
this is what I was saying yesterday, it's just bad writing. You wouldn't expect half the shit he writes in batman to be true if someone told you unless you saw it on page
Wally needs to be self-destructive and kill himself in order for King’s message on depression to be fully conveyed
Why didn’t Wally just go back in time and kill him self before he could kill anyone?
How did he kill everyone by accident?
He didn't. He killed everyone with intent.
God that is a fantastic cover though. I haven't read the book but kept up with the talkback threads and the story doesn't really seem to make any sense, especially the OPs spoilers. Worth the download or should I just wait until the Storytime of Pain rolls around?
Why didn't he just go back in time to stop himself from killing everyone?
Storytime of pain.
What exactly does King suffer from? Depression or PTSD or something from a paper cut while pushing paper in the CIA?
King has officially reached Bendis level hackery for me.
No, he did not. He blames himself for losing control, but he didn't intend to kill anyone.
>> He did this to distract everyone and give himself five days to leak everything to Lois Lane.
Ok but why this?
>>Wally killing everyone is an accident.
How do you accidently kill a bunch of people in a clearly premeditated way? Like, Steel was killed in a way that specifically got around his invulnerability.
>accidentally kills them all
So he has an out, just like every other hero that accidentally killed someone from mind-control or whatever. And he'll repent on the Suicide Squad. I was expecting worse after all your meltdowns Yea Forums
How many good things are still left from Rebirth?
Yes.
The threads yesterday made out wally to be an actual killer instead being the focal point of an of some energy explosion on accident.
He's dead already though user, he can't join anything.
OP is dumb. Wally didn't accidentally kill anyone. He's confusing Wally saying he lost control, with Wally meaning he did it by accident. Wally is saying that he lost control in that he went bugfuck retarded with murder-rage. There was no accident.
I suppose our next best hope is that when/if doomsday clock finishes wally and his family is reset and given a happy ending. Wally and his kids can be depowered for all i care just give him a happy ending.
The panels clearly show energy exploding out of him. If they wanted to show murdering everyone you think they wouldn't relish in it?
Right and he screamed 'NO' as it was happening because he clearly intended for it to happen.
Doomsday clock reveals that Manhattan was actually Wally with a shaved head and a can of paint. It's all his fault.
Explain Steel being killed with a clattering teeth getting inside his throat.
That is just a visual representation of him losing his marbles.
As far as characters go:
Bane
Thomas Wayne
Riddler
Selina
Harley
The Titans
Wonder Woman
Nightwing
Deathstroke
Terry
Do you have any actual proof of this or...?
Where is any of that good?
> He hijacks some of Booster's VR tech and uses it to convince both Booster and Harley that one-another is the killer
Why though?
The actual comic where Batman is doing an optesy on Steel?
So no
>Bane
>Thomas Wayne
>Selina
>Harley
>Nightwing
None of this is good, what are you smoking?
>Explain Steel being killed with a clattering teeth getting inside his throat.
The later part of the issue where he explicitly stated that he set up the crime scene to deliberately throw Batman off his trail so he'd have time to leak everything to Lois?
Based early storytimer? Lets find out once and for all what's going on so we can be rightly pissed off / relieved
it's not explained, just bad writing
as you can see I wasn't bullshitting you guys
>I'm the fastest man alive
>by the time you're viewing this, I'll be dead
I'd have to try to write this badly.
Hopefully Wallyfags commit mass suicide lmao
>The Titans
>Nightwing
Roy and Wally are dead, Dick has brain damage, Donna's origin is still messed up and their series has been cancelled.
The only thing I'd say that's hasn't been messed up completely on this list is Wonder Woman. And even then theres been some stumbling.
>here's a vague and generic guess about a tom king comic
Okay so, king wanted to write about characters with mental issues because "ME SAD I WANT TO WRITE ABOUT THE SAD CHARACTERS", so he kills them all off in this awful book?
I'm genuinely struggling to see his logic in this shit
>That is just a visual representation of him losing his marbles.
No, it was a visual representation of him losing control and accidentally killing everyone who was unlucky enough to be near him.
I thought Booster's time travel system allows for changing the past. How in the fuck does Wally time loop with it? You can't go to a future with you in it with forward time travel of the nonloop variety.
Boy, sure is great to read an uplifting story about heroes protecting and saving the day. Seriously though, what in the fuck is wrong with these people. Everyone thinks their Alan fucking Moore and have to deconstruct superheroes into severely damaged people who are lucky to be able to tie their own shoes much less have a positive effect on their worlds
He's saying he wants to kill himself. It's literally a cry for help.
Here's the page if you need evidence.
>sure is great to read an uplifting story about heroes protecting and saving the day
It was called Heroes in crisis, not every book has to coddle you emotionally.
Why in the fuck was literally everyone in Sanctuary near him at that exact moment? Did he detonate during the saddest orgy ever?
Alan Moore is a hack.
Oh so it was a legit accident that he just made look like murder cause...? I mean that's still stupid but it could have been worse
Fucking send King and Bendis back to Marvel.
And didn't they all have a "wear this mask when in public areas for privacy" rule?
>Why in the fuck was literally everyone in Sanctuary near him at that exact moment?
They all went outside when the Sanctuary alarms went off in response to him trying to hack Sanctuary to prove all the other basket cases alongside him were actually real. It was literally just bad timing.
>I mean that's still stupid but it could have been worse
Tricking your friends by framing your friends so you can confess to someone else and then kill yourself is not bad enough?
No, that's way fucking better then literally and happily murdering everyone on purpose you retard
When compared to that literally any other explanation does sound better.
Okay so, he decided to bring poison ivy back to life just because. But he fucked with his friends corpses just because?
Here's the pages leading up to it
Sorry for the potato quality pictures, I'm taking these from my phone.
>Barry the greatest crime scene investigator of all time
Has Barry ever been described as this before?
>Okay so, he decided to bring poison ivy back to life just because.
I think that was because she was the only one he could bring back because of her unique biology?
Which is what that one guy kept trying to say happened, yeah.
It's not really. One's crazy. The other's stupid. I'd genuinely rather see dissociated Wally shred everyone else at sanctuary apart to try and prove he's trapped in some sort of evil simulation and his family is still alive and well.
The world's most convoluted suicide plot is just shitty.
Which one guy?
If he accidentally killed everyone, why did he decide to make everyone think it was a mass murder?
Wally could have just explained himself to the JL.Or did he stage everything because he's broken and damaged?
>I'm going to revive this murderer just because but i'm going to use my buddy roys body as a playing piece in a game of clue
see
Maybe this overly complex suicide plot was because he felt like they wouldn't let him kill himself?
Someone is literally posting the pages, user. Your game is up
Who can stop the fastest man alive from killing himself if he wanted to?
Does this feel like it went through a rewrite to anyone else? Maybe the original was worse and they turned it into an accident just to try to salvage Wally's character. It's not working though.
Supes obviously
I wouldn't be surprised at all, it does feel super retconning.
Not that i'm complaining.
>everyone walks up to a guy that can fling lighting and move fast enough to atomize them while he's collapsed in the middle of a field covered in volatile energy
Are we sure this wasn't a group suicide?
Moore is limited in range and a bit overrated, but compared to most comic book writers, and even most fantasy and YA writers, he looks like fucking Dostoevsky.
>If he accidentally killed everyone, why did he decide to make everyone think it was a mass murder?
Because he wanted to throw them off so he'd have time to leak everything to Lois, and because he wants to kill himself.
>Be fastest man alive
>Need five days to kill self
That doesn't add up.
Ah, but can he do it without killing him? Checkmate.
>Because he wanted to throw them off so he'd have time to leak everything to Lois
He's THE FUCKING FLASH. Beyond that HE HAD A FUCKING TIME MACHINE.
WAIT A FUCKING SECOND
So does this mean that Lois and Clark knew it was him all along??? What the shit
Sure was worth bringing Wally back screaming from the speedforce just so he could have a sad and kill himself because writers don't know what to do with him
So he accidentally killed everyone, somehow, and then mutilated their corpses in an attempt to make it look like someone else killed them so he could confess to accidentally killing them? And it took the motherfucking Flash FIVE FUCKING DAYS to do this?
This is fucking retarded and I don't care that it's better than Wally just murdering everyone.
But if Supes is not there and he doesn't know that Wally wants to kill himself how is he going to stop him? He can kill himself faster than anyone else can blink.
>Does this feel like it went through a rewrite to anyone else?
According to BC, the original draft of the story was a lot closer to their original leak: It would've started with the open reveal that Wally has killed everyone, and the focus would've been on finding out why he did it.. This was retooled a lot later to instead make it a whodunnit murder mystery.
Beyond that, I'm pretty sure Ivy coming back to life was a last-minute revision.
Last year, even before Heroes in Crisis came out, some user who worked on DC editorial spoiled that the killer was going to be Wally, but that DC was demanding rewrites (the user even said that it would be Wally from a different timeline).
King sees comic as therapy because he’s a fucked up person who can’t handle the PTSD he’s got from being a pencil pusher killing people for the cia in the Middle East
I mean...at this point I wouldn't be surprised if SUPES killed everyone and the tape is actually a fake generated by Sanctuary to conceal the murders.
Supes and Lois have been written so shit lately and this nonsense hasn't helped.
>This is fucking retarded
It's a king written event, are you really shocked?
The good news is that it hasn't completely poisoned the well that is Wally so he could easily have a redemption arc and come back under a non-shit writer
I expected something bad, but not to this level of bullshit.
Why Wally West though? They brought him back intentionally to hype people because he's symbolic of an older DCU and one of the best connective tissues in the larger meta story of DC. What is the purpose behind taking Wally down a peg? What does it serve other than to drag a good character through the mud?
Man Wally is such a fag
Why did he brag about making this comic for people with ptsd if it's just him self inserting his desire to do a columbining at his psychiatrists office?
Since Johns left Barry, nobody knew what to do with him so they used crime scene inspector things and ramped it up.
>What does it serve other than to drag a good character through the mud?
One less stupidly broken character that has to job in literally every story he's in? One less Flash cluttering up the brand?
>I knew what assumptions Barry would miss
>And that Batman would make
He was talking about Batman
In that case it should have been Barry - milquetoast bland character
what redemption arc are you expecting? seriously, lets say he doesn't kill himself. Do you think he will just get off scott free because he didn't mean to kill everyone at sanctuary, his next logical plot progression is suicide squad or death
I would have been ok with a comic about a superhero commiting suicide. Maybe even Wally commiting suicide. Maybe even a mystery about Wally being found dead and the Justice League investigating the murder and learning about the trauma all the other heroes face.
The issue is making Wally guilty of mass murder/manslaughter. That is just ruining the character and sacrificing a ton of other characters to do it.
Don't know, maybe Barry and him have some kinda heart to heart or he sticks around to tell the next retarded event, sacfices himself to save everyone and then comes back in a few years.
Honestly if you think what happened is ANYWHERE near as damming as him straight up breaking and purposefully murdering everyone then you're straight up retarded.
Also we get it, you don't like the character and are pissed your edgy fan fic didn't happen after all
What's the stupidest hero breakdown? Supes after killing pocket dimension Zod, Hal Jordan after Coast City, or this?
Wally is just that big of a piece of shit.
>Supes after killing pocket dimension Zod
This one I think.
Hal's sorta makes sense + retcon and Wally has a legit reason to be fucked about it.
Superman literally did nothing wrong at all
Having Wally kill himself was one thing, having a bunch of other heroes as collateral damage for his suicide story is definitely the worst part of this shit. Well that and the horribly designed therapy center the JL cooked up, holy fuck that was retarded.
Wally has never been a piece of shit until king decided to project himself onto him.
I think starting from when Wally fought Barry and got kicked out of being Flash up to now has been the ultimate character downfall in a short time.
>Wally has a legit reason to be fucked about it.
No, he doesn't.
If they were going to get rid of Wally, why not have him deliberately retcon himself so he can be with his family and then show them together in Limbo?
>accidentally murdering a bunch of your friends because your powers went insane while you were having a panic attack isn't a reason to be upset
Okay autismo
>Hal Jordan after Coast City
It made perfect sense if you actually bothered to read Reign of the Supermen, Return of Superman, and all of the issues of Volume 3 leading up to Emerald Twilight.
Yeah, but can you show mental illness and how it causes you to murder a bunch of people in that story?
You're going to hang on the ACCIDENTALLY as a form to defend Tom King, won't you? I was wondering what the Kingshills would hold onto. I guess i know now.
What in my post makes you think I don't like Wally West? Admittedly, I only know him from Johns run on the Flash, so I wouldn't consider myself a fan (but then again, I prefer him over Barry) but making him a killer is far worse to me than just killing the character and is incompatible with theWally I did know.
I just said that because I imagined this as "King tries to do a story about PTSD with a Flash".
At least Ivy survived
>accidentally killing someone is the same as hunting someone down and murdering them for fun.
Whatever you say, user.
And i'm not a kingfag, retard. This event has been fucking garbage, i'm just glad that it's not as bad for Wally's character as we were led to believe.
Has anyone ever BTFO fans harder than King? He might be worse than Bendis.
>i'm just glad that it's not as bad for Wally's character as we were led to believe.
But it is, you fuck-head.
No, it's really really not and the fact that you can't understand the difference just shows that you're a fucking idiot
Hal Jordan's fall makes sense and makes even more sense after Green Lantern: Rebirth. It's pretty easy to understand
I don't know, aging up John and making Louis cuck Clark with Supes makes me angrier than this stupid bullshit.
Wally still killed them, still tempered with their bodies to throw Barry and Bruce off, still tried to shift the blame to Booster and Harley. This is bad no matter what way you slice it. Fuck off, shill.
Has Scanbro leaked the divorce yet?
But at what cost?
Yeah that's probably still worse than making Wally have a meltdown and shelve the character due to some company infighting over what direction to take the universe.
Explain, and no he hasn't.
>intent doesn't matter at all bro
Dumbass
>still tried to shift the blame to Booster and Harley.
How thick do you have to be to not realize that was never suppose to be a long term thing. He's literally recording a video where he confesses to doing it and giving it to Superman's wife to leak out.
I mean...nothing? She basically just comes back through an asspull that had no bearing on anything else.
>to go forward five days in to the future, kill his future self
wut?
>He's literally recording a video where he confesses to doing it and giving it to Superman's wife to leak out.
He could have confessed to doing it in a letter in an attosecond.
I doubt Sanctuary was about this murder shit originally. King had talked about how he wanted to build a better superhero community or some shit with Sanctuary.
Didio wanted the rape of Sue Dibney 2.0, and King was like, "that sounds edgy as shit. Fantastic!" and shit out this turd instead.
I fucking hope that DClock is just the New 52 2: Electirc Boogaloo and all of this goes away.
Bendis, Johns, and King are all rushing to take the title of "worst writer" from Jurgens in a knock-down, drag-out fight that will fuck over the continuity of many beloved franchises.
Everyone in charge of their respective books are doing their best to prevent the collateral damage from making it into their work.
She looks like a gross artichoke person for now. Hopefully that goes away soon.
Me too
But DC needs to get rid of all the legacies
Now I know how H.E.A.T. feels. Not so funny when the shoe's on the other foot.
Yeah and? It's still nowhere near the same thing as trying to completely pass the blame off, I mean fuck do you actually expect Booster to be upset enough about it that he wouldn't forgive him?
King has some stupid five day plan shit that i'm guess we'll find out in the next issue, or was forced to rewrite it because DC told him to fuck off. Either way it could have been a lot worse and there's nothing wrong with being grateful that it wasn't
They are gonna have to reboot the universe again after this.
But will Harley still love her?
At least Hal was trying to do some good despite his fucking awfulness. He figured he could just undo everything once he got enough power (and he was kind of right).
Wally literally just went insane and became a horrible monster. He's like a generic ass Batman villain.
>I don't care that it's better than Wally just murdering everyone.
How is this better? Its literally just Wally murdering everyone, and then coming up with a retarded excuse.
>Its literally just Wally murdering everyone, and then coming up with a retarded excuse.
Do you know what the word intent means?
If they fired King and replaced him with Morrison, could Morrison save this?
I'm not defending this garbage, it's just that the idea of Wally being a mass murderer because reasons is worse than all of this bullshit being an accident.
Fuck this event is probably the worst shit DC has put out.
>RAAAAARGH
>MUST KILLLLL
>it's just that the idea of Wally being a mass murderer because reasons is worse than all of this bullshit being an accident.
>character assassination is worse than slightly less severe character assassination and a bunch of convoluted nonsensical behavior that drag out a single issue event for months
>character assassination is worse than slightly less severe character assassination and a bunch of convoluted nonsensical behavior that drag out a single issue event for months
Yes, glad you understand now
You are making me choose between wet shit and regular shit and trying to make me defend one, both options are terrible and shouldn't have even been options in the first place.
>one can lead to a character coming back from
>one would basically be a dead end
How are you not understanding it. Yes both are bad but one is worse then the other
I don't mind when a big name hero dies to be replaced. On the other hand when an underused hero dies for no reason it's bullshit.
Ngl, I thought Hal become pretty interesting with Parallax. I thought he was just some standard hero pre-Parallax. After Parallax, he became pretty interesting to me. That even lead me to some stuff with Hal thats pre-Return of Superman. Emerald Twilight even made future runs good like Geoff John's. All and all, Emerald Twilight made me like Hal more, Heroes in Crisis will not make anyone like Wally more.
Lol what is this bullshit
"I can EASILY outsmart Batman AND Barry because I worked with them!"
motherfucker that makes no sense, Wally is not some fucking ubermind master planner
This leads me to believe that Wally isn't coming back to YJ because DC hates him now
No, he separates the two. He says Crime Scene Inspector, you know, CSI? Barry? The guy he spent a lot of his life with?
To his defense, it wouldn't be hard to outsmart Barry
But The Speed Force doesn't just fucking murder zap people who get close to you. What the fuck?
Why does he say that Barry would miss things and then Batman would find them if he thinks Barry is the greatest of all time?
He would say Batman would miss things and Barry would find them if he thought Barry was a better investigator than Batman.
Maybe their hearts are just moving really really slow and he doesn't realize their alive.
Barry never went speedforce insane and murdered everyone.
Jurgens was never the worst writer. He's very bland and typical with an okay idea here or there.
I don't get how anyone calls Johns a bad writer. I get not liking some of his work or his style but he's made a good number of legitimately good comics.
And neither did Wally, that would be manslaughter at worst.
Barry is apparently the world's second best detective these days (lol get fucked Chimp and Tim Drake) so who knows.
>One less Flash cluttering up the brand
What is so wrong with an extra super speed character?
Barry is the best CSI. Batman is the best overall detective. There's more to detective work than CSI work.
He's saying he knows Barry very well and that, even if he's the best CSI in the world, he can fool Barry by setting things up in a way that Barry would be lead down a particular conclusion.
With Batman he just says "Yeah and I can fool him too" or something.
Barry has never been an amazing detective. He has been a good detective but never best in the world tier. Barry isn't that fucking smart.
No, manslaughter is killing people by mistake or accident, manslaughter is not covering up the murders and trying to frame someone else while you spend five days confessing how the murders were an accident.
>Cut out the best flash
>Leave a million other shitty speedsters
Makes so much sense faggot.
So is ANYTHING going to change after tomorrow's backlash?
Then get rid of Godspeed, you fucking faggot
>Cluttering up the brand
He's like one of the very, very few characters in DC who is marketable and can sell a comic, dude. That's not clutter, that's throwing away an asset. Even from a purely corporate perspective this is throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
>manslaughter is killing people by mistake
That's literally what happened, why are you playing dumb? That other shit he did afterwards doesn't suddenly and magically make it not an accident.
That doesn't help with shit like Lagoon Boy being impaled or Steel being suffocated.
That said I wonder what that scene with Lagoon Boy was even about. If this is what happened, if everyone ran out during an alarm and got zapped by Wally, what's the deal with Lagoon Boy's death?
DC has explicitly called Barry the second best detective in the world during both of the recent Flash and Batman crossovers. They're just making Barry knockoff Batman.
Read the pages that have literally been posted in this thread. Wally faked them dying that way cause...idk King's shit writing. Point is they weren't murdered in the way everyone though
Yeah wally covering up a total accident with desecrating the bodies is stupid. But it's still what happened.
Dear lord let doomsday clock erase this.
We saw, in issue three, from Lagoon Boy's perspective, him walking out and dying ironically the same way he was killing himself in the simulations. Where did that come from? How did Wally even fucking know Lagoon Boy's weird murder reliving scenarios?
Same with Gnark. If everyone was instantly fried to death by Speed Force lightning (THIS MAKES NO SENSE) then how was Gnark crawling around, bloodily, holding onto other dying heroes and philosophizing?
No he was basically saying that Batman would eventually figure out what happened but he could trick Barry for awhile.
>That doesn't help with shit like Lagoon Boy being impaled
If you see the page of the actual deaths, the explosion is a bunch of thunder bolts exploding out of Wally and impaling everyone around him.
It also makes no sense that Wally would use time travel to try to fix it because Wally is deathly afraid of time travelling.
Jesus, user. Literally just look at
My point is that covering up the murders and blaming someone else was completely intentional so it doesn't fucking matter that the killing was accidental.
If you accidentally killed someone but then chopped up the body and tried to blame someone else would it still be manslaughter?
It wasn't an accident it was rage murder. Even Zoom never went mad with rage and murdered people he didn't want to.
Yes. I get that Wally framed Booster and Harley and put all the bodies where he put them.
This does not explain the literal things that happened in issue 3 and 6. The things I'm talking about. Lagoon Boy was alive, walked out into a pile of corpses, and got impaled to death like his simulations. Did Wally also kill him to cover things up? What was the deal with that scene? Same thing with Gnark.
Explain Issue 3 or 6 for me with the context that those two images are showing. They don't add up.
>If you accidentally killed someone but then chopped up the body and tried to blame someone else would it still be manslaughter?
Yes? You didn't suddenly murder them on purpose retroactively. I mean you'll get stuck with more jail time / have committed other crimes but the crime doesn't magically get bumped up
The pages are literally in this thread, user. Nice try but you're too late to bait people
Retcon maybe? Point is that this is what they're going with
Well at least we got this gem out of this shitheap, which perfectly sums up this entire event.
So is this worse than Cry For Justice? Ultimatum?
You can't fucking retcon things that happen in the same story arc. Things that happened literally two issues ago.
Look dude this thing is stupid no matter how you slice it. I guess if you're one of those people who anted him to murder everybody or expected them to make a mystery that actually made sense, you're fixating on this ass pull where wally accidentally cased an explosion.
While us wally fans breathing a small sigh of relief the worse thing he's done is desecrate corpses and tamper with evidence. We still think this is stupid and want to find a way to undo this crap.
Well unless it's going to turn out that Wally's memories / flashback was a lie then that's what happened
I mean, yes you can. Just look at Secret Empire.
Cry For Justice, yes. Ultimatum, no.
Secret Empire didn't make it so that scenes that happened just didn't actually happen because it's incongruous with the finish.
Can please can a storytime, my man. I don't even care about potato quality. This is Storytime of Pain tier
But it did a complete 180 on its own moral in an equally nonsensical way. If you want another literal example of what's happening here, look at Armageddon 2001.
user, the pages have literally been posted. The actual explosion isn't in here but it was in another thread and made it obvious what happened.
I mean you can bitch at King but unless there's gonna be some crazy ass twist in the last one where Wally didn't actually do anything at all, then there's not much room to really debate this
Sure, but that's not the same as this.
Yes it did. Its resolution was a direct contradiction to scenes that were shown prior.
>While us wally fans breathing a small sigh of relief the worse thing he's done is desecrate corpses and tamper with evidence
Fuck off, Kingshill. I AM A WALLY fan and there is no sigh of relief. He ruined the character.
> I AM A WALLY fan
Calling bullshit at that, honestly you're just coming off like a pissy anti-kingshill.
Literally no one is defending King here, everyone says this is retarded just not AS retarded as it could be
>anti-kingshill.
There's no such thing. Everyone with half a brain would dislike King.
>everyone says this is retarded just not AS retarded as it could be
You're the only one saying that because you want to placate people's anger at your favorite writer. If anything, this is more retarded than what we originally though.
Ah, so when a speedster gets really sad they instantly kill people who get near them now.
I guess just making some shit up is a way to "surprise" everyone.
>You're the only one saying that because you want to placate people's anger at your favorite writer.
It's time to get back on your meds
>If anything, this is more retarded than what we originally though
Writing wise? Correct but it's better for Wally's character, which is what us Wallyfags are happy about.
I guess they're setting Wally up to be the next leader of the Red Lanterns
>The speed force made me do it
In like 60 years the speed force never forced anyone to go postal like that. It was Wally who killed everyone on purpose because he was upset.
I think the only non shit Flashes left are Jay and Avery
>which is what us Wallyfags are happy about.
No one is happy about this.
>but it's better for Wally's character
Stop spouting this bullshit. There's nothing better for Wally in any of these scenarios. Even if he didn't directly murder all of them in intricate ways, he still murder them. Then went on to change their bodies so it'd look like they were murdered by other people. What the fuck is wrong with you?
I understand. I hate king and this just as much as you. I'm just glad wally wasn't deliberately killing people and other shit. For moths people have saying wally deliberately murdered everybody. This is only marginally better. This thing with him covering up an accident and faking evidence is completely stupid. And of course I unhappy about the mass death. But it's easier to find a way to fix this shit, than it would be if he was an actual murderer.
Dido needs to go. He's the real one behind this. And king needs to be blocked from doing anything mainstream superhero if not fired too.
>anyone to go postal like that.
He didn't go postal, he just sorta blew up.
>on purpose
No he didn;t
Sorry, I should say fell less shitty about.
It is. I mean obviously it would be better if it didn't happen at all but if you're too retarded to see the difference between Wally's powers going out of control and killing people and him doing it on purpose because he got a murder boner then I don't know what to say
Have not been reading, why didn't Wally go back in time and stop the murders and save everyone?
King sucks
Because time travel was not supposed to w-Hey, wait a minute.
King is retarded
So Wally murders and alternate timeline version of himself?
Still a fucking murderer, great.
No, he kills his future self.
I don't know why this is so hard to grasp. Most of the comic has been posted here, just go through the thread
Yes, his future self is an alternate timeline version of himself you fucking idiot.
No, it's the same timeline. It's just a closed loop.
There is, at one point, two Wallies and he kills the other one.
I'm still expecting this to be a really poorly executed attempted for Zoom to fuck with Wally. I have a hard time believing DC would shit all over a legacy character so much, Didio or not.
Both Wallies are the same person. He just killed himself in the third person basically.
Time travel is stupid
Don't Flashes have Speedforce clones / mirages to specifically get around this?
That's a show thing. Bart once had Speed Force Scouts or whatever but killing one put him in a coma.
August made a clone but Williamson is a hack so who knows.
You see this being treated as a complicated suicide plot. Still understandably morally objectionable. Nobody is saying this isn't stupid shit. Just slightly less shit than the worse case scenario.
That's not suicide. Suicide is killing yourself. At that time, at that moment, that Wally is another person who is thinking their own thoughts. They are two distinct entities. If they weren't, one could not kill the other.
He's fucking worse.
At least with Bendis, when he did the exact same thing with Wanda in Avengers Disassembled, he was so fucking lazy that he left MULTIPLE outs for later writers to absolve her of everything (in this case, Doom sticking a Lovecraftian horror he was trying to seduce to help him kill the Marquis of Death).
King isn't even giving us THAT, since he's explicitly killing Wally off so that no one can absolve him unless they further shit on Manhattan and have him have mind control powers and made Wally kill for him
GAY FOR JUSTICE was pretty entertaining with how garbage it got.
Ollies reveal as the green arrow was so shit it circled back to amazing
If you could perfectly clone yourself and said clone then killed you that's still fucking murder.
We don't see him blow up. When we saw the perspective of the victims they werent just blown up.
And none of the other speedsters exploded on everyone.
No, they're the same person. It's just that one is a little further along the timeline. They aren't clones of each other, they're literally the same person.
Time travel is stupid and usually poorly used for a reason
As I said, it's being treated as a complicated suicide plot and it's morally objectionable. I hate this and am hping either the last issue has them stop wally from dying or doomsday clock brings him back or something.
Nobody here is supporting this.
>We don't see him blow up
Yes you do, the page has been posted in another thread already.
>And none of the other speedsters exploded on everyone.
And now they do.
They are not literally the same person. The second you time travel to another point in time you are creating a divergence (not another timeline, mind you) where that different point in the timeline version of yourself is different purely by the act of interacting with a time travel. You become two distinct entities.
#3 and #6 were soulless cash grab issues designed to basically show the murders from BG and Harley's perspective to make you wonder who did the deed.
They got folded into the main series because DC realized they had a shit sandwich on their hands and selling them as part of the main mini would ensure they sold as opposed to being ignored once word leaked that they were filler.
>And now they do.
Ah yes, the old "I'll just make something new up and completely rewrite how a character functions to explain my murder mystery." Speed Force lightning is now real lightning and everyone there is killed by it even though literally every single other time anyone gets hit by speed force lightning the result is they gain super powers.
>We don't see him blow up
Here you go
No, they're the same person. It's being presented as a closed time loop, user.
That doesn't matter or explain anything. They are part of the comic, written by Tom King, specifically. This is something even the most idiotic editor should point out. Or Tom King should realize. It's like 20% of the entire event.
m8, I'm not defending this, I'm just confirming what's been shown in the comic. Apparently this is now a thing that all the other speedster characters have been keeping secret.
Saying "Closed time loop" doesn't diminish anything I'm saying. There are two Wallies, fundamentally, and one kills the other. If there aren't two Wallies then he can't kill him and put his body somewhere.
Wait is the actual factual fucking conclusion of this big ass murder mystery LITERALLY "Speed Force did it" ???
Are you fucking kidding me? FOR REAL? THE SPEED FORCE DID IT?
Tom King is actually the worst writer at DC.
>There are two Wallies, fundamentally, and one kills the other. If there aren't two Wallies then he can't kill him and put his body somewhere.
It's time travel, user. Why are you trying to apply logic to something that can and is being used to do whatever the fuck you want.
Look if it makes you feel better then yes, Wally killed a version of himself and then that version is killed by a version of himself forever and ever and ever
Roy actually wasn't there at the start of things. It was Dick and Garth. Roy didn't even show up in Teen Titans until like 10 issues in.
"I ain't gotta explain shit"
Tom King - 2019
Wait, I though time travel wasn't supposed to be possible at this time due to what happened in Flash?
I want you to stop and consider that souls are a canon thing in the DC universe. By your logic there are going to be an infinte number of Wally's soul wondering around in the afterlife.
He's going to literally flood heaven / hell / wherever with copies of himself if each one is actually different
This is why trying to apply too much logic to time travel is a retarded thing
Bad writing
Killer paper cuts.
Kek that's so shit.
He steals Booster's time travel tech.
Original Titans in the very first Titans comic (which ironically doesn't use the Titans name on the cover) was Garth, Wally, and Dick, with the issue promoted as a Robin/Kid Flash/Aqualad team-up. They do take the name Teen Titans though at the end of the story (Brave and the Bold #54).
The first "proper" Titans story has Donna part of the team as if she was always there. Roy doesn't show up until #4 and even that muddies the water by claiming it's a "flashback story" set before the main series.
Roy doesn't officially join until around #19, but when they finally do an "official" origin story for the Titans in the final issue of the original run (#53), they retcon that Speedy was a founding member ala Donna from day one.
As such, pretty much EVERY retelling of the Titans first published story (Brave and the Bold #54) showed both Donna and Roy present at the fight against Mr Twister. Along with handwaving Roy as being part of every Titans story prior to him "officially joining" as far as retroactive continuity goes.
Why is DC so bad at keeping continuity straight? I'll say that one thing I enjoy when reading Marvel is that you don't constantly have editorial going "nvm that didn't happen. We're redoing it." At this point I honestly have very little clue as to what is and isn't canon.
>Barry can't help a friend return to the future cause no time travel
>...unless he just asked Booster for a small favor but won't because...?
So anyone want to predict DC's reaction to this shit?
Also, anyone want to bet DiDio will explicitly have to come out and debunk the "Doomsday Clock is being delayed because Geoff is retconning HiC and has to wait until the story ends before the relevant issues come out telling you Wally's innocent after all"?
Or is DiDio going to ignore EVERYTHING and King's going to accuse ANYONE criticizing him for what he did to Wally, of threatening his life as far as criticism=death threat that the lunatic left loves to claim?
I think it's pretty obvious that this isn't what King intended to do with Wally and he basically got told to fuck off by the higher ups. I predict that (assuming Wally doesn't die here) he'll will join the S.S for a bit, have some stupid event where he redeems himself / they pull a parallax and then it will never be mentioned again.
That or Wally will be scared to use his powers from now on and that will make Barry the for sure strongest since he's the only one that can use the speedforce at it's full strength
To be fair, the early Titans stuff was written by Bob Haney, who was INFAMOUS for not giving a fuck and creating huge amounts of continuity fuck-ups (like creating a brother for Bruce Wayne, an Earth 1 Wildcat, characters from the past and future having adventures with Batman, even Donna Troy herself).
Also, most fans consider that the original Teen Titans didn't "get good" until Roy joined full time, so it was a big bit of fan service to retroactively add him to the team's lore.
honestly at this point it would be in DC's best interest just to hard reboot the entirety of the main DC continuity, it's pretty much the only way to salvage the mess they've made of things
Five SECONDS--sure, but days? What the hell was Wally doing?
The quads speak the truth.
He had to go catch Avenger's Endgame
No one really gives a shit about Wally and some randoms desu.
No need to reboot the whole universe. If that happened Babs might get paralyzed again.
Sooo what's his logic behind all this? why does he need to make it look like a mass murder? WHY DOES HE NEED 5 DAYS TO LEAK SOME VIDEOS?
>No one really gives a shit about Wally
Wrong!
But honestly I agree it's not worth rebooting the universe for. Now some of the shit going on with Batman and Superman right now? I could see it
I want a reboot, but not yet. Let'd wait a year or two until Bendis loses so.e credibility.
FUCKER'S GONNA DO A RUN-BY SPOILING AT EVERY THEATER!
Batman isn't beyond saving yet. But if a few more things happen like Selina banging that black guy then it will be reboot time.
At least Cry for justice... never mind both sucked, but at leas CJ felt like it was leading to something.
not like DC is really publishing anything worth a shit in the main continuity right now anyways
really do hope they give Bendis the boot from working on the main continuity sooner rather than later
So basically Wally was just so sad the Spped Force went nuts and zapped people to death? uhhh okay?
Going by the next page yes
I don't think a full reboot is needed, just a soft one to revert all the shit stains that have happened lately.
I'm predicting a reboot no sooner than 2021, after the 10th anniversary of the New 52.
If Didio isn't gone though it'll just be the The New 52 all over again unfortunately.
Let me guess, somehow Wally's "true death" will be averted and he'll have to do some shit to redeem himself (probably joining the Suicide Squad as has been rumored for months)
>I don't think a full reboot is needed, just a soft one to revert all the shit stains that have happened lately.
soft reboots cause too many problems, just look at the messes that both COIE and Flashpoint caused because they didn't want to reboot everything
a reboot is definitely inevitable, hope it'll be sooner than 2021 though
Doubtful. WB likely want's Barbara as batgirl for easy merchandisability, even though a disabled Babs is a better character with a unique role as the Birds and the Batfamily's computer expert and mission control, and also good for disabled representation.
>If that happened Babs might get paralyzed again.
You say that as if its a bad thing
>kill yourself five days later as repentence
This would almost be heroic if not for framing Harley and Booster first.
Okay Yea Forums, do we think Leviathan will be better, worse, or equal to this shitshow?
Never heard of it
Worse. Bendis is rumored to want to use Jason. Can't wait for tumblr to meet someone worse than Lobdell. Maybe he'll make Jason kill Miguel too.
Better, Bendis' AC has been pretty good so far and I have faith that he'll be able to pull this off satisfyingly.
She is too cute to be sexually invalid.
lol no, if it's better it won't be by much
Leviathan is more or less a straightforward Evil terrorist organization vs the DCU's heroes story. Depends how many characters get gratuitously killed off or if there's some some out of nowhere villain reveal. Even then it'll be hard to top this.
honestly it's not like we couldn't have multiple Batgirls, or even have Barbara take up the Oracle role again without having to get paralyzed
So, I wonder why King chose Commander Steel specifically, instead of Citizen Steel. Maybe Johns saved him for the JSA revival? God I hope so.
Nate's origin is definitely good wank material for King's depression and tragedy fetishes though.
I'd be okay with that, but they wouldn't even let Cassandra go back to calling herself Black Bat. And as long as Barbara's capable of field work they won't put her behind a desk.
Is anyone gunna actually storytime this shit (no fucking phone photos) or what?
Dude
this is my first taste of DC in years, and the last one was seeing people bitch about New52 years ago
this looks like SUCH garbage, like Identity Crisis without the charm
Can someone post some pages from this run?
>this run
It's an event, not a run
Between this, Mister Miracle and I believe Batman. Is Tom King.....doing ok? He seems to really like making these heroes suicidal. I heard Batman showed kid Bruce hurting himself in flashbacks after his parents died. It’s kinda worrying.
Anyway at least the killings were an accident. So it’s not as villifying as Emerald Twilight.
yeah that's what I mean
Jason Todd is a shit character, I don't give as shit if Bendis ruins him. In fact, I hope he does.
>Is Tom King.....doing ok?
Fuck no, and he's proud of it.
I've never been a huge Wally fan but this whole event has been ass. I don't know what the fuck is going on at DC. Rebirth wasn't terrible but ever since they announced Bendis was joining them everything has been going to shit. It's like they don't care anymore and want to drive away readers. I haven't bought a comic from DC in over a year now and don't really intend to anytime soon because there's nothing decent. Maybe I'll grab the Morrison GL trades but that would be it
But really, what the fuck is this whole thing about? Don't have the attention to read a long wiki article now.
Whole thing based on Wally killing someone? Does anything else crazy/shitty happen?
So has Bendis and King. They all have their good days and "some of their worst shit" days.
Johns made some painfully mediocre to outright terrible comics during his Green Lantern stint, holds onto legacy characters people really want until he feels good and ready, then goes at retcons a majority of their lore -- turning them into popcorn-munching, ready-for-theaters scripts because he doesn't like playing catch-up with previous runs. He's a lazy shithead and therefore a bad writer.
Got to love how DC wants to tear down Wally just to prop up Barry. Hey remember when Wally remembered that he lost his kids due to Flashpoint and was considered worse than Hitler for even thinking about trying to set things right? Because it's okay for Barry to fuck with time, and never get held responsible for the massive number of people who ceased to be. Batman is fully aware of this, but lets it slide because he got a note from his daddy out of it
The big issue with disabled Babs to me is with all the magic and SUPER SCIENCE running around the DCU something like that shouldn't be the most difficult thing for the heroes to fix.
Kek the Wallyfag rears it's head.
I think he's pretending to PTSD-like because he thinks its how he should. It also gives him cover on writing shitty stories.
Wally is upset about his wife and kids not existing so he murders some people, because that's what King thinks is a normal reaction because he refuses to go to therapy.
I'm not even that big on Wally, I just acknowledge that he had a great run with Geoff Johns and DC is trying to think of ways to make Barry appear as THE Flash. If anything, I want Jay to get solo spotlight. But not with modern writers whom are obsessed with Speed Force plots. And yeah, I'm going to call out the double standard
He's clearly got some serious issues that go beyond PTSD but he refuses to get help and thinks writing miserable stories about miserable people is going to help him.
At this point I think the whole reason King and Bendis were hired by DC is to make their brand as unappealing as possibly to Disney.
What characters has King not ruined yet?
I'm expecting him to be picked to revive Legion of Super-heroes so he has a roster of like 70 characters to use as fodder and die in the most horrific ways possible. King fucking loves killing children.
Welp, Wally is the new “Parallax” of DC
>DC is trying to think of ways to make Barry appear as THE Flash
He WAS the Flash. Jay is so far removed from the Speed Force and the usual Flash imagery that calling THE Flash nowadays would come off as forced. Same reason Alan isn't part of the Corps.
DC's making a really strong case for me to start reading Marvel again
Parallax was more sympathetic than Homicide Wally
The Speed Force wasn't a thing until nearly ten years after Barry fucking died, and only got connected to him because it was "speedster heaven"
Wally is still a mass murder whether it was accident or not. The fact that he even tried to blame someone else for it isn't helping his case either.
>>Jay is so far removed from the Speed Force and the usual Flash imagery
>The Speed Force wasn't a thing until nearly ten years after Barry fucking died
You just agreed with me.
Speedsters lost the ability to time-travel due to Flash War.
No, he literally said that he is aware what ASSUMPTIONS Batman would make. He pretty much stated that he knows how to trick both of them.
I know, I'm not defending this shit.
>Bane
>Thomas Wayne
>Riddler
>Selina
>Harley
>The Titans
>Wonder Woman
>Nightwing
>Deathstroke
>Terry
that is Cancer
It's funny how obsessed with Barry you are that you delusionally believe that everything done to Wally is because of him.
Who's ready for next month so this shitshow of a crisis will finally be behind us?
Same with Superboy Prime, but we all know how that ended.
to be fair, barry's the one being pushed for movies and tv
he's the carol danvers of male characters
No, he isn't. Barry is used because it's easier to do since his story doesn't depend on someone else like Wally's story depends on him.
I'm a huge Wallyfag but I'd love a Jay solo. Even without the speedforce he's still around the speed of sound.
I'll never understand Barry hype DC seems hellbent on throwing at us. I've got nothing against him personally but he's just... so bland. None of his stories are even that spectacular. The biggest things he has going for him are timeline memes, a waning CW show, and a psychotic villain who likes pushing him down stairs for the lulz.
He's a tabula rasa that runs fast. SOLD!
I'm looking forward to what absurd twist they'll pull in the final issue.
but why confess to lois?
why compromise the existence of sanctuary?
Flash had an energy explosion shit without him being in control at all similar to what happened to Xavier in Logan.
Superboy intentionally killed people, he aknowledge it on blackest night.
If it was an accident then he's not a mass murderer.
Imagine being The Flash for over 25 years only to be relegated to being King's bottom bitch for a throwaway event. I don't even read Flash more often than a few times a year and even I know Wally's done more shit for the DC universe than Barry, who's been getting pushed for the last decade because fuck you.