Memes aside, what are some legitimate differences between manga and comics

Manga generally has more freedom, easier to get into

Comics are dominated by capeshit, needs friends in high places to break in

>Comics:
>Directionless storys with multiple reboots and reimaginings that make it hard to keep track off.

Only applies to the big cape universes. Outside cape comics you still get single creator/teams for a single story.

Other than the general cultural differences, the biggest one between comics and manga is distribution. Every series is sold in single issues, then collected in trade paperback, while manga have every company produce magazines with that week/month's issue's for all their series sold as one big magazine, and then the individual series are collected in volumes.

Also, you can pick up manga magazines from pretty must any convenience store in Japan, while comics are only sold in specialty stores.

There's also the matter of color paper quality.
Comics are (more often than not) in full color and printed on higher quality paper, while manga is usually black and white with special color pages for the more popular series and on cheaper paper. While this makes comics look and feel better, manga is far more time and cost effective.

Yes, if they're published in a weekly like Shounen Jump, but lots of manga are published less frequently. They often have higher page counts but not 4 times higher.

>direct control
Depends on the publisher. A lot of mangaka have been fucked over.

>Capeshit comics

Manga is very related to oriental way of thinking (death isn't a big deal) which is seen in stories like Arabian Nights. I like to name these kind of stories as Tragicomedies.

Comics has occidental values (death is a big deal) which we can see in things like The Iliad. When they are honest, we have Tragedies... when they're kind of dis-honest, we have Melodramas.

However, East has bring us Tragedies like Grave of the Fireflies and Wesr has bring us Tragicomedies like Better Call Saul.

Yeah but more time between publishing also means more detail work, like that comparison from when Vinland saga moved from weekly to monthly. I imagine the work rate is still similar.

Story direction is basically all up to them. They have about as much control over their series as an author has to their book.

Editors and publishers can only really make suggestions and don't directly OWN the story.

As for Shounen Jump, mangakas are also given a team of assistants to help them with the infernal schedule. I don't think they are ever credited but I may be wrong.

>-Original creator has direct control
Are you guys still sticking to this lie? Editors have massive sway over a manga.

None, they're all shit.

That is not true. editors are known to shred their work if it’s not to their liking. Editors have as much weight on the story as the mangaka.

>Yeah but more time between publishing also means more detail work
No, not necessarily.

only in Jump

They get mentioned in the tankoubons I think. Assistants usually go on to make their own series.

This is only if you're starting out a new series or aren't an established author. Once you've gotten some traction you're basically allowed to do whatever the fuck you want.

>Comics are made like TV shows:
>-They're owned by the company/channel
>-Though sometimes originally created by one person the single person typically doesn't have direct control over the whole thing
>-Multiple writers and artists that change depending on the issue/episode
>-Can effectively go on forever if need be
How did you find this place and what are you doing here if you know nothing about comics

Read Established authors are constantly ripped into by the editors. Just look at what happened to Tite Kubo. Editors really do have as much weight on the story as mangaka sand this is more so for a bigger series.

Only if their work is successful or if author is a marginal or a big name, if not, the editor is very much in power to mandate anything that may boost sales.

>only in Jump
>Just look at what happened to Tite Kubo
Are you retarded? THAT'S JUMP YOU FUCKING IMBECILE

Shounen Jump Editors are pretty much there to remind the artists to not stray from the "mainstream" formula

Naruto and Bleach and even Dragon Ball in the Cell saga had editors interfere everytime things got too different

Only exceptions are One Piece and HxH where the writers are trusted enough to do whatever they want

>Just look at what happened to Tite Kubo

Yes, a guy with so much editor oversight he'd leave 1/3rd of his comic panels blank and negative spaces just black ink.
Kubo ended his series on his own terms.

>This is only if you're starting out a new series or aren't an established author
Oh bullshit. This faggot only exists because of editor meddling and Dragon Ball was the biggest manga of the day

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My post was in reply to I only told (you) to read so you understood others agree this happens with smaller mangakas that aren’t in jump.

This, if anything Jump needs to tighten the screws a little more on some of these guys.

Not really, mangaka usually bounce ideas off editors since... that's the job of an editor "so I've reached this point and I know that I want to do this but how do I get there?".
Jump is the only one with editors meddling heavily in the story because JUMP is a soulless corporations that farms IPs, the damn thing has become such parody that series are shitcanned in like 15 chapters.
Usually other publishers don't cancel series left and right, doesn't mean they'll pick up any pitch though.

Having an editor doing what editors are paid to do is not the same thing as the publisher owning all the rights to your work.

This only happened because he had so many problems with his editors messing with his story. He even said it himself in interviews. The only reason why they allowed him to push out such low quality chapters was because they already told him to end it.They wanted nothing to do with Bleach (nor did they care what happened to it because it did so poorly) once his health started to decline and he started having bad relations with his editors.

Or maybe Bleach was just extremely mediocre and Naruto and One piece were both already way more popular?

Did Toriyama really care about DBZ story, or was he just doing it as a job/for the money?

One has manly super men fighting each other. The other is a buncha girly stories about relationships drawn with huge eyes.

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Clearly he's read all the comics out there. The Batman ones AND the Superman ones.

No, I’ve even seen small shojou mangakas whining about editor meddling. It’s not unique to Jump.

Ask Hellboy fans how they feel about “one direction”

The Dragon Ball dude wanted to stop at Frieza but was led around by the nose by his corporate masters.

bump

>Comics has occidental values (death is a big deal) which we can see in things like The Iliad. When they are honest, we have Tragedies... when they're kind of dis-honest, we have Melodramas.
what makes a non-tragic story dishonest?

It's all just comics.
I read both kinds.

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The only based answer

The biggest Manga at any time are typically self contained settings that started out no more than 5-6 years ago*
The biggest comics are typically consistently set in a shared universe with other characters with decades of history behind them
*one piece notwithstanding

I definitely do this, but I do admit my manga does clearly overshadow my comics collection. All for comics I read are Hellboy, Usagi Yojimbo, TMNT, and Judge Dredd.

>Arabian Nights
You are fucking retarded if you think that Middle Easterners aren't closer culturally to Europeans than they are to East Asians

Read, but what about OWN?
You busting out the coin to actually collect at $13-17 a pop that 30+ volumes some manga end up with?
I mean I love and read plenty of manga, but physically I hesitate to buy an 80 chapter series of will-they won't-they romance.

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From the 2 manga I've read (dragonball z and battle angel alita) the pacing is faster and action shots are more focused on movement and dynamic action more than superhero comics.

>Manga
Pros: One story with a definitive beginning and end. Greater opportunity for character development.

Cons: If the story goes to shit, there’s a very small chance of course correction.

>Comics
Pros: Large collection of ideas to work with. If a writer is bad, they will eventually be replaced with a good one. Massive continuity can lead to creative plots. If a character isn’t working, it takes one writer to make them work.

Cons: Massive continuity makes it confusing to find a place to start. When comics are bad, they’re baaaaaad. Constant resetting of status quo makes true character development hard.

>and dynamic action more than superhero comics.
Other than Spider-man, pretty much yeah.

Kinda the opposite seeing as series like Neverland and attack on Titan are popular because they go against the grain and kill characters where as other shounen just don't do that. You completely ignore books like the X-Men and the 90's era edge which writters like to harken back to when they kill a bus load of children.

I'd argue that very few manga go to shit and then stay shit for an extended period. Generally they're fucking canceled quickly. I'd also argue that good manga go to shit very rarely because you don't hate to deal with conflicting artistic visions or writer Russian roulette. You just have to have the author not crawl up their own asshole or the artist not get carpel tunnel from jacking it too much to Idolm@ster.

Comics never let anything die. Any character that hangs around long enough is going to have a continuity full of cancer that you're just expected to ignore if you want a good story. Taken as a cohesive narrative, a comic character's story is generally going to look like a dumpster fire compared to a manga character's of equal length.

I'm sure the author of this was a great guy, but this is a pleb take. Page flow takes care of some of this. Backgrounds help keep action in context, instead of seeming like they could just be happening anywhere. The dialogue's just a bit of fun or keeps some kinda plot progression going. With the hyper-condensed (compared to now) nature of Silver Age comics, these were both necessary for engagement. Also lead to fun stuff with capes using the environment in some cases.
See Bleach for a manga that became dull and lifeless whilst following both of the ideas this author brings up. It's more possible in a country's comics where a single fight can take like 6 chapters to resolve as well.

Manga are comics, so no differences.
Now between western comics and japanese comics. That's a discussion.
I think generally longer running series are more likely to keep the same writer over the course of their production, but in Japan and the West those comics are a minority and not really evident of a widespread difference, more just the way the big 2 run things.
Read better comics and manga
>Massive continuity makes it confusing to find a place to start
This is really only a problem with some big cape characters, and still a bit exaggerated considering how easy it is to pick up a run and just understand things through context
>When comics are bad, they’re baaaaaad
Read more manga

TONY STARK KILLS THANOS BY GOING BACK IN TIME AND USING THE INFINITY GAUNTLET THEN DIES.
BANNER IS NOW PERMANENTLY FUSED WITH THE HULK
CAP USES MJOLNIR AND ALLOWS 9/11 TO HAPPEN

>where as other shounen just don't do that.
That completely depends on the shounen. I'd also argue that Attack on Titan is only called shounen as a fucking marketing ploy. It's fucking seinen.

If something is tagged as both "shounen" or "shoujo" and "mature" on mangaupdates you know a company's just fucking around.

speedline wanking in manga is far worse than retarded fight speeches, though but are ridiculous and should be avoided by any competent cartoonist

as for op's question: there is very little, but retarded neckbeards uncapable of reading anything but Big Two and Jump shit will split hairs to feel superior to each other. The same goes for BD, fumetti, manhwa and whatever other names are out there.

Not him but a few titles per month isn't so tough. Most of the stuff I've bought finished under 40 volumes.

That said I quit One Piece when they decided to catch up with Japan by putting out 4 volumes per month.

>You busting out the coin to actually collect at $13-17 a pop that 30+ volumes some manga end up with?
I tend to wait until collections of manga come out, like the DBZ 3 in 1

>Comics never let anything die. Any character that hangs around long enough is going to have a continuity full of cancer that you're just expected to ignore if you want a good story. Taken as a cohesive narrative, a comic character's story is generally going to look like a dumpster fire compared to a manga character's of equal length.
No one is forcing (or expects you) to read 70 years worth of every single big two character, and your criticism applies exclusively to the big two, which isn't the same thing as "comics".
Hellboy has a single continuity and people are gladly ignoring the Devil You Know even though it's a single narrative from start to finish, if you can't do the same with Superman or the Flash maybe stick to sitcoms or whatever.
I like Toriyama's work even though everything past Frieza is very lackluster, and he's an AUTHOR. I don't see why you can't see the same with a character which had thousands of authors and not even on the same series (or continuity, a lot of times).

Amazon tends to have manga going from $7-10

>Directionless storys
yet Yea Forums is full of complaints how x has gone off the rails and needs to be cancelled.

You know outside of Naruto should have ended with Pein and Death Note should have ended with L, I rarely think manga should end early.

But it probably helps most manga I read are pretty short like Franken Fran's 8 volume.

>generally they’re cancelled quickly
Name three popular Shonen series that actually ended when they should have.

>western characters are iconic and adaptable enough to be used by generations of writers to mean different things in different stories.

>weeb thinks this is bad because he can only find value in meta narratives connecting several self contained narratives

I don’t know what damaged this generation. Was it video games? The internet?

>backgrounds and words are bad
2 nukes weren’t enough.

We'll never know how much Kishimoto's editors interfered towards the end of the manga. Naruto could have ended with 1 or 2 arcs after Pain. Just something dealing with the remaining Akatsuki and Sasuke. Honestly, the series didn't go downhill for me until the Five Kage Summit.

>comics never let anything die
>meanwhile Dragon Ball is the alpha dog of manga

Nips cant do endings like they can’t do cgi and comedy.

Imagine if people on Yea Forums had asinine discussions about the pros and cons of swing music vs enka.

Bleach should have ended at the end of Soul Society, with a mini arc tying up Grand Fisher.
HnK should have ended at Raoh. Jojo shouldn't be on part 8, arguably.

Blame f/a/gs for *constantly* starting East v West threads. It's almost daily. They should fuck off and die on their own board

Jojo has its ups and downs. Unfortunately we’re on a down that just won’t fucking end.

In their hearts they know who the alpha nerds are, it’s why they leave their board to come start shit here.

Why is anime generally higher quality than western cartoons but it's the complete opposite when it comes to paper? They don't even color it...

EVery mu thread is asinine

anime isn't competing with cartoons. anime is competing with anime. you go all out or be forgotten.

seriously, anime craps out so much stuff that you actually forget what you've actually watched once it's done.

>jojo has a natural conclusion at the end of part 3
>gets artificially extended
>it's fine because part 4 and 5 are pretty good
>Part 6 kinda blows, but ends Jojo on a definitive note
>Gets artificially extended to an alternate universe
>but it's fine because part 7 is really good
>but part 8 is a rambling mess

It's a wild journey

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Keep it in the the capeshit flick threads, guy.

>Using the Naruto manga as the example
Why though, the art became progressively worse as it went on and was never especially good to start with.

Comics are a cornucopia of modestly immoral business practices and are by and large creatively defunct.
Most comicbooks are cape comics and of those most are officially sanctioned fanfiction.
The difference between you or me writing a Batman story and the people DC is actually paying to write perhaps several concurrent Batman comics is far too often just a rubber stamp.
It is done purely out of the fact that a comicbook with name recognition will sell better than one without.
Comicbooks are littered with advertisements that destroy immersion.
Comicbooks have needlessly large crossover events to drive up the sale of multiple comics.
Comicbook companies have diversity hires to make their companies look more liberally pleasing.
They will actively go to great lengths to generate good liberal PR in the name of trying to expand their readership to people who do not read comics as the companies now view their consumer base with the same vitriol as many of the IP they own: problematic and homogeneous looking.
A really core problem of comics is that there are no stakes, their fanfiction quality removes any.
Characters defying death and trying to protect their loved ones is rendered pointless because if anyone is ever actually dealt a mortal blow any other writer can just write them as no longer dead thus removing any meaning in the death of that character in the scope of the canon.
The events in one story can actively just be erased from canon and even the erasure of those events can be erased.
It doesn't really matter.
Nothing in comicbooks matter.

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>Name three popular Shonen series that actually ended when they should have.
Angel Densetsu, Kyou kara Ore wa!!, and GTO.

>western characters are iconic and adaptable enough to be used by generations of writers to mean different things in different stories.
In other words, western characters soulless shells that can be whatever a hack wants them to be, with no attached meaning to them. They're faces and nothing more.

Manga isn't as developed a medium as comics, but what truly prolific characters there are have meaning.

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>what are some legitimate differences between manga and comics

People like and buy manga all over the world while comics are dying because nobody wants to read that ugly shit.

the thing about comics is that i can't get into most comics, and be invested in it as much as i do with manga, and even then with manga i feel the same way.
it's kinda like this so i tend to go for comics with really short runs somewhere around 60 to 80 issues and with manga like 180 to 200 or so volumes while skipping some but still pretty big in comparison.
so for comics i go for the old school stuff like Vigilante, wild dog, lobo or just random issues of punisher, groo, and conan. soon i'm planning on reading the kassandra cain batgirl comics from 2000.
as for manga i don't care much for shonen jump type of shit, but i do love baki the grappler.

>Dragon Ball is the alpha dog of manga
It really really is not. That'd be like Doraemon or something.

Didn't Go Nagai work on 5 ongoing manga for like 5 different magazines at the same time?

So you're saying western characters are meaningless? I don't care about shit that doesn't have a meaning, that's why I've never bought western comics and always spent my money on manga.

most commercial art is meaningless, manga included

Your life is meaningless you mean, manga actually brings joy to people while you are useless

Yes, mine and everyone's life is also meaningless, objectively. It is only subjectively that meaning arises, in both life and art, commercial or not. I bring joy to people as well, not as much as manga, but my friends and family like me, and all their lives are equally as meaningless as mine or ours.

>I bring joy to people as well
I doubt that

I'm not an expert in both comics and manga, but here:
Comics:
>American comics' diversity is overshadowed by the superhero genre
>European comics are high quality, but they hardly ever get translated.
>They have full color and high quality pages
>but they are expensive and hard to get into
>US comic market is fucked by the old distribution methods on a daily basis
>plus comics in the US are being sold in Local Comic Book Stores (Luckily, for us Europoors, they have them sold in normal bookstores), where they can't get new clients without them being interested in the comic medium first.
Manga:
>Literally just "japanese comics", but weeaboos wanted to be more exotic so they separated from us.
>Because of that Korean and Chinese comics somehow landed in the gray area, because they have more in common with manga, but they aren't from Japan.
>Many fan translations
>You need to read them in the opposite way
>Shonen Jump is just the Big Two of Japan
>More choices in genres, but if you read them long enough you'll find that the most popular stories are practically the same but with X replaced by Y just like in the western comics.
>They are cheap and easy to read, but they are also B&W, printed on a bad quality paper and many times they have too many volumes to collect them physically.

Well mate, I can say I doubt manga brings joy to people as well, it won't really change a thing or give meaning to my life, your life, manga, art, human existence or the universe itself.
That's just how it goes you know.

>I can say I doubt manga brings joy to people as well
And you'd be objectively wrong because manga is beloved by millions while you are just a shitposter on Yea Forums

this

You are also objectively wrong because I do bring joy to people, whether you believe it or not.
And whether you believe it or not, my life, everone that either brings me joy or gets joy from me, manga, comics and everything else is objectively meaningless so you're objectively wrong twice.

>I do bring joy to people
The way you desperately keep saying says otherwise. Why are you so upset that you're stupid and meaningless and people like manga better than you?

>Did Toriyama really care about DBZ story, or was he just doing it as a job/for the money?
Toriyama explicitly stated that he hated drawing, and the whole style change in DBZ towards fighting manga was purely a market thing. He clearly put more love and effort in the comedy stuff like early DB and Dr. Slump. I was reading Arale again just today, it's so charming.

I mean, being stupid and meaningless isn't antithetical to bringing joy. My dog is meanignless and very very stupid and few things in this world bring me more joy than hanging out with him.
I just think you're not thinking about what those words mean.

I swear that if DC published a saddle-stitched blank comic, with blank pages, a blank cover except "Batman #1" written in comic sans people would still buy it

>My dog is meaningless
what a cruel thing to say about your pet, user. Thanks for proving not only you're stupid and meaningless, you're a bad person too.

I'm pretty sure this is a thing that exists (or something that I've seen people on Yea Forums ask for), it's supposed to be a sketchbook for a specific character you bring to cons, like blank cover comics
It's not that I'm bad, it's that you're dumb and think something needs to have meaning to be loved and cherished.

Except for manga like JoJo and even parts have huge retcons like D4C's powers or Anasui's gender.

Most people love and cherish things that have a meaning to them, any meaning.

Which is why comics are in the shitter because western characters have no meaning to anyone.

We've been through that you nincompoop. Meaning can only be subjective. Objectively, nothing has meaning, and art has double so less meaning, and commercial art has thrice less meaning than no meaning at all. Function and meaning are different things, and I'm tempted to say that most art doesn't even have a function (at least, none that's exclusive to it).

>didn't even read the post
Kek keep being a butthurt retard

Manga typically end
Comics don’t

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>Manga typically end

In the grand scheme of things this probably isn't true; obviously the popular ones do or will, but much of the stuff that never gets translated is cancelled without ending, or are just abandoned.

You said most people love and cherish things that have meaning to them. This supports my point that every meaning, specially in art, is subjective and will only rise if there's a spectator.
I doubt you will but you should probably read Balzac's The Unknown Masterpiece, it's a great debate on the subject and barely 30 pages long, if that many.

Could you give an example of where the editors interfered in Naruto because alot of stuff in Naruto was foreshadowed from the start

Honestly manga are just better. I'm not a weeb and I read just as many eurocomics as I read manga.
The format is superior. It's cheaper, the magazine format is great and allows minor publications to become popular thanks to the lure of larger titles. Very no nonsense editing standards make sure that shit reads well and is well paced instead of retarded paneling experiments, no diversity/feminism/lgbt/other retarded shit I don't care for, no politics, there is actual escapism instead of just modern settings and real world shit, no force feeding 80 year old characters wearing underpants over their tights to your audience, way more genres and subjects like sports or food, original titles can thrive and find an audience on merit alone, meritocracy, artists are respectable hard working professionals instead of imbecile tumblrinas who sperg on Twitter all day, art quality at this point is superior even if you don't like the style, medium is taken seriously in its country, focus on linework instead of rendering which I personally prefer, way more motion thanks to the use of speedlines and animation-friendly attitude.
If only they could remove the edginess and the idiotic manga tropes they repeat over and over and over in every comic, manga would be just perfect. Eurocomics fill that need for high quality but graphic novels are expensive and take forever to come out, but it won't be for long since SJWs are infesting eurocomics as well.

I think an even better point is that for the most part, a single character/story does not change hands often. It sticks with the creator and either ends or dies off. Whereas comics have every character passed off to someone else, stories and timelines constantly brought back.

DESU JoJo works a lot better as a longrunning series than most because each part has a clear beginning and end, with the next one having a different cast and feel.

like cape comics you mean?
Jojo's success only goes to show how weebs are just clinging to any sort of elitism they can get, there is nothing separating it from creator owned capes like Hellboy or Nexus.

The art in creator owned western comics is ugly shit and the story is shit too

as a unbiased fan of both i can say with all honesty manga can be the most gripping story telling experience the "sequential art" medium has to offer

that said, it does have alot of doughy eyed non-sense with characters that only look different thanks to their strange hairstyle

american comics are great
but manga has actually made me cry

you gotta look for the good stuff
its out there
>pro tip
its not dbz/naruto/bleach/one piece

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I picked Mignola and Steve Rude specifically because very much like the Jojo guy, they were very exciting artists at first who kinda ended up as charicatures of themselves, but of course a faggot like you doesn't know shit outside of the big two and whatever Yea Forumss flavor of the month is.
There is literally everything happening in creator owned comics, from people using risograph to people using oils to people xeroxing themselves over and over until the art looks like shit, but you gotta look for your shit.
I'm not even in the US, I'm very isolated from whatever's happening, but a quick glance at D&Q or Fantagraphics websites should show you how much cool and different shit is coming out.
Also, explain to me why this is ugly shit or worse than Marvel / DC or manga.
I don't think you really know either that much if you're ready to give swathing generalizations of both like that.
Most manga is decompressed as fuck, and not in a good way (though to be honest, most decompressed comics aren't done so in a good way)

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If the echivalent to capeshit in manga terms is shonenshit then this logic doesnt apply since shonen is endless garbage that gets milked to death just like cape comics

>being this mad that people don't care for your shit
lmao die poor fag

Nice argumment faggot. I care about both comics and manga, if you don't, you should probably go to Yea Forums or /o/ or whatever suits your tastes.

Women read and love manga, women don't care for western comics.

I dont get why people enjoy to have this pointless discussion. Every kind of media has good shit and bad shit, there is not a “better option”. You just need to stop being a faggot and choose the stuff you find interesting based on your own taste and not keep patronizing works based on their medias.

I'm the opposite, I remember fondly crying while reading All-Star Superman when I was younger, if we're talking about the Big 2 specifically my most recent memory would be I Kill Giants
Manga hasn't really made me cry but behave more like "flicks" if we're drawing parallels to it with movies, then again so do some comics but you get what I mean.

I care

The vast majority of women doesn't.

>Meaning can only be subjective.
what's the fucking meaning of batman or superman or whatever retarded capeshit hero?! from great power comes great responsibility? did we really need a fucking century of it?

capeshit characters were created to appeal on the most basic level to little children so you could have them pitch a candy bar and some American propaganda at the end of the comic, and be as easy as possible to draw with no complex drapery and a default loomis face. their stories are absolutely braindead on the levels of the dumbest shonen manga for 8 year olds. What the fuck is it with superheroes that you find so meaningful apart from marketing being drilled into kids heads more than fucking Jesus himself?

Guess you could say it's been a bizarre adventure.

Source? I always have a soft spot for McCloud-esque content.

what color is your hair?

Narrative, public and production. There are manga to literally almost every possible theme (I just found a manga about fucking bedminton, of all things, weeks ago), the production follows an unhuman work pace and it's very difficult find a manga that isn't very formulaic or doesn't sound as a self help book. Very feel can actually be enough of a boom to keep running for more than 5 years.

Big 2 aside, comics are more esporadic, and while they have their own formula, there's more time involved to put qualilty into the work ("quality" is relative). Sadly, there's also too much target audience and tastes to please and the final product couldn't please everyone.

>Angel Densetsu
This is a solid shounen, but I felt it dragged a bit at the end. That might have been more of my fault for binge-reading a series that was meant to be weekly episodic in nature so that people have time to breathe and wait for the next chapter of wacky misunderstanding hijinks. Still ended on a solid note, so I'm not complaining.

>speedline wanking in manga is far worse than retarded fight speeches
I have never seen speedlines or any format related stuff being used improperly in big published manga. The paneling and this kind of choices are always impeccable.
On the other hand I could pick a random capeshit comic from the top 10 of this year and it's probably full of retarded fight speeches - or more realistically, no action at all and just characters standing there with balloons taking up half the page filled with cringe inane dialogue about stupid sjw shit

the meaning of Batman to me is how being defined by your traumas is very damaging to the psyche of a person, no matter how good they are, if they don't work on overcoming it they'll become slaves to it
the meaning of Superman is that you always gotta run that extra mile, even God has to deal with his failures, and the failures of a God are far bigger than ours, but both us and gods still gotta keep on running and doing our best in making the world a better place

But this is all subjective. I'm not saying you should read these books (nor the entirety of their runs will cover these themes), but these are the ones that appeal to me whenever they are brought up by good writers who can work them. Stop being so angry because a work doesn't cater to you, I bet you enjoy some stuff I think it's shit as well, and reading ONLY indie comics or ONLY manga or ONLY capes is dumb, read what you like regardless of genre. Slice of life shit or formal wankery can be just as dull and self centered as any cape book, to mention the two most common genres outside of capes.
Try to engage with a work before disliking it, I'm sure you'll become a better person if you do.
Speedlines, very much like gradients, cross hatching and digital texturing can be done right and still look like shit.

>please like what I like waaaaaaah
Oh fuck off, I don't like your shit, shut the fuck up and stop trying to peddle it when I told you I'm not interested you whiner.

I should also add, before you completely misunderstand the first part of my post, that these are the themes I like seeing the most in these characters, but I don't particularly care about neither as itself (the two big two characters I will read no matter how shit they are are Daredevil and Doctor Strange), I care about whoever's writing them at the point.
I'm not the one whining. I'm presenting my earnest opinion of these subjects while you just lash out at something you don't know because it's easier for you to just dismiss 75 years of narrative done by some very competent creators every now and then because it makes your comfort zone even more comfortable.

>I'm not the one whining
>keeps making shitty whiny posts trying to peddle his shit
I'll dismiss whatever I want. Your narrative is shit and ugly, 75 years of shit is still shit. If your creators were competent they wouldn't have created shit. Deal with it.

God, you lasted through Jason Aaron’s Strange run? I dropped it pretty quick and I love the character. I’m so glad Waid fixed him

Black

>Literally just "japanese comics", but weeaboos wanted to be more exotic so they separated from us.
I don't know about that. I think at least the catagoring of it works especially from an outsiders perspective it helps to at least seperate the left-to-right vs right-to-left reading style of both mediums,

If they have a dis-honest happy ending or a dis-honest unhappy ending (that's to say, appeling to some cultural ideas), we call it a Melodrama, because it shows us the world not as it is, but as we would like to see it.

I'm not saying that Melodramas are bad... they are very funny... but reality behind Tragedies is chatartic.

>One has ONLY ONE Universe with a solid story and one direction from start to finish.
You must be new to the world of manga and anime.

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Actually, that's exactly where I stopped and started reevaluating my own standards, even his Thor everyone seemed to love was carried by the fantastic art.
Whatever bud, you're still the retard depriving yourself of literally more than half of mankind's sequential art production because of SJWs or shit art you can't even explain why it's shit or whatever.

Luckily only certain manga gets the "expansion treatment." and most of the times that the original creator will be at least in talks with who ever is writing it.

So far I think Hero academia has it worst
>Main series
>Light novels
>Prequel spin-off
>gag strip

but it seems like these four are probably the worst series will get.

I see. thank you for your reply, I find this topic very interesting. If there are any books/articles on this you could rec, that would be great.

It's shit because it's shit to me. What more explanation do you want? It's ugly. It's not to my taste. I don't care for shit that's ugly and not to my taste. I am more than happy to deprive myself of shit that I don't like. Go hang yourself if you don't like it.

>Arabian Nights, The Ramayana, The Tale of Genji

What these histories have in common are the parts of the journey. These books tend to talk about different elements of the journey of life... like little steps.

In contrast, Occidental works tend to talk about just one chapter of life, like The Iliad, Aesquilus and Sophocles plays or Shakespearian teather.

But, like I just said, there are exceptions.
The Odyssey has a Tragicomic approach and things like Attack on Titan have Melodramatic approach.

I don't reach to see to point here. What this approach to death has to do with these theme?

However, to many deaths is a Melodramatic approach to life... West point of view in my perspective. Tragedies are chatartic (like Grave of the Fireflies) because they show us the death of a single person... that's more powerful.

>None, they're all ok.
FTFY

>Aristotle's Poetics
>Greek Theatre by H. D. F. Kitto
>The One Thousand Face Hero by Joseph Campbell
>Morphology of Folk Tales by Vladimir Propp
>Bakuman by Obha and Obata.

This is one of the best ficcion works from East with West approach (specifically, Shakespearean theatre).

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That’s his story. The editors themselves has said that he was George Lucas tier when it came to holding himself to deadlines and having coherent and planned out plot points.

In any case, Kubo is on record of stating that storyline was never as important to him as character design. His work totally reflects that.

But remember, the industries behind comics or cartoons came from an specific vision of life, earned by geografical elements, history, culture and character.

Who is Araki
Who is Togashi

I just like Watchmen in Western comics.
I prefer manga, maybe because I'm mexican and we have a very similar mistical point of view just like japanese fiction. We mexicans don't like american wat of life except when it is critiziced (like Arthur Miller's theatre). Or at least that's my case.

This is a good post.

Are you using those two as counterexamples? Because i can point to multiple instances where they both got screwed over by corporate.

Comics
>Different writers guaranteeing a diverse plot and characters
>More consistent and better art
>Colored and not rushed
>Popular series are allowed to continue growing instead of leaving them dead when they finish

Comic cons
>Not enough competition on the market

That's it really.

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Since comic writers don’t work themselves half to death, we’ll never get things like this.

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Phantom Blood - Good villain, 4/10.
Battle Tendency - Coherent shit, 6/10.
Stardust Crusaders - Jotaro is as cool as Hamlet in another way, 7/10.
Diamond is Unbreakable - Good characters through their Stands, 7.5/10.
Vento Aureo - Some fights are as good as Iliad fights, 6.5/10.

I would say:
Cartoons > Anime
Manga > Comics

>Part 4
>Good

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Comics:
>Planned from start to finish
>You get to see several different writers take on the same characters and have different takes on them
>Stories can grab from lore decades past and from other material within the same universe
>Color is nice
>Usually only planned out as far as the current writer has planned it, unless it's an event comic.

Manga:
>Normally planned to a definite end, with a variable journey
>Single writer so it can get more personal and you get to see them develop
>Single universe, but that makes the lore and content more original (unless the author is a hackjob)
>More likely to get you a qt nerdy girl date by association

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>Comfy 90's aesthetic
>Cast of idiotic but likable teenage losers
>Much more creative fights than part 3, relying on strategy instead of brute strength
>Arguably the best main villain in the series

Other than some boring filler (no more than any other jojo part past 2) whats not to love?

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>Much more creative fights than part 3, relying on strategy instead of brute strength
Every fight in Part 4 was retarded, in part 2/3 everything had an explanation, on part 4 everything came out of their ass.

The only bad thing about Part 4 is the lack of main motivation at the beggining of it. The rest of this slice of life part is excellent.

> in part 2/3 everything had an explanation
> Dude our stands look similar so i can also stop time lol

Even if 2/3 had some explanations behind asspulls in fights, those explanations weren't funny.
Part 4 and Part 5 fights are, if not logical, very creative and funny.

Maybe that's not a very good example.
Dio's Stand has every other Joestar Stand habilities, that's to say, Hermit Purple's premonition, Star Platinum's being ultra fast to make the ilusion of stopping time, the flesh shit as Giorno's Golden Experience and his hair like Jolyne's Srone Ocean. I'm sure there's an example of Crazy Diamond, but I don't remember it right now.

There are substantial differences in the way their industries are organized and run. The way they're marketed to consumers. And of course stylistic differences in both art style and storytelling conventions. But ultimately they're far more similar than they are different as they're fundamentally the same for of art.

Manga sucks because it's backwards and has no color.

But you don't see the characters passed on like the town bike to new creators who don't give a fuck about what anyone before them did.

>b&w
YIKES
Try some REAL comics art you fucking weeaboo shithead

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You're suppose to color it in yourself lazy-bones.

>since shonen is endless garbage that gets milked to death just like cape comics
Most if not all recent limited and monthly series end after 12 issues, though. Did One Piece cross the 1000 chapter threshold already? How many of those are 15 pages of straight-up fights?

>Did One Piece cross the 1000 chapter
No, 941 comes out this week.

BW and color are both good.

And those are what, 10 years worth of One Piece, sans a few months of hiatus in total?

>10 years worth
Yes user, 1997 was just ten years ago.

>1997
No wonder it's so dated now.

Anyway, show me a 19 year comic book run that is just crossing its 941st issue. You will find me not buying that shit.

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I have no idea what you're even talking about, western comics are monthly so it's impossible for them to get to numbers like that in such a short time-span.

Westerners see manga through rose-colored glasses.
Manga is made by large teams of uncredited "assistants" who do most of the work.
Manga isn't censored towards Western sensibilities but IS heavily censored towards Japanese sensibilities.
Remember it wasn't that long ago Japan was a hyper-jingoistic fascist society that literally worshipped a God-Emperor.
Japan's formality and politeness cultures hide a seriously fucked up place.
Come to think of it "kawaii" and hi-tech stuff also are kind of a projection.

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This. Manga is literally propaganda from a fascist dictatorship. Stop reading it.

You sound like a clueless moron. Assistants usually handle backgrounds and shit because they're time consuming, basically they do grunt work. And most of the time they do assistant work for experience and then they graduate to mangaka.

lol they're literally slave labor
In American comics everyone gets credit
In Japan you work bu don't get paid or any credit

Which assistants did backgrounds for DB? I'd sure love to check a tankobon and find out. Western comics at least enforce credit instead of making people think it's one person slaving over four chapters a week

*a month

>lol they're literally slave labor
Clearly you speak from experience, right? Oh no wait, you're the typical amerifat shouting your stupid and wrong opinions and pretending like they're fact.

Correct them then. What are the conditions like in terms of working hours, pay and credit? I know myself pay's usually a split off the mangana's pay, and credit's nil except internally. You aren't bringing an argument other than
>nuh uh my mangos are pure

>weeb actually defending actual slave labor
Can't make this shit up

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*mangaka
Goddammit

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Like I said, most of them do it for experience and when they start out as mangaka they get recommendations from the mangaka or editors they worked for. You can whine all you want about slave labor but it's an objectively better model than getting hired at a publisher because you have friends in high places.
Obsessing about "credit" is, again, just a dumb americanism, these people dont give a shit about having their names plasted somewhere in the credits pages for drawing a building or a parked car or some shit, they want to learn and then create on their own. Comic book collections are full of names of editors and publishers and artists and inkers and the average comic book reader barely even remembers the writer and maybe penciller.

>Comic book collections are full of names of editors and publishers and artists and inkers and the average comic book reader barely even remembers the writer and maybe penciller
He thinks the point is to have the reader play a memorisation game instead of acknowledging the people who were instrumental in making the work. Yikes
Both happen in American comics. They have their acknowledgement, and other publishers and creative teams will see if they're open for work. It's an ethical thing. How many assistants out of the last five decades have made it that big? 2%? 20%? The audience won't know who they are or what experience they have. Besides, assistants aren't like colourists. It's splitting the work of the inker and penciller, so this is a strange comparison.

A lot of Manga writers aren't really "typical Japanese" though, a lot use Manga to project their frustrations toward Japanese Society

It's like saying Tupac is a typical american

There's some differences in pacing and paneling that are too complex to get into, but the biggest difference that matters beyond culture is in how they're published, which is where manga absolutely demolishes cape comics.

>Nips can't do comedy
youtube.com/watch?v=yPmF_2etYrA

>Obsessing about "credit" is, again, just a dumb americanism
They don't have resumes in Japan or something?

>you can't put something on your resume unless it's also printed in a collected edition
user...

This happens on long run mangas too. Just look at Dragon Ball today.
>b-but not canon
Heroes and GT are still official products and could be implemented as "canon" anytime they want to. They actually didn't care about this stupid term. They just want to sell and since the fans are dumb as doors it works no matter how badly the quality is. The Dragon Ball Hero is the complete ruination of the franchise. They will not stop while it's selling, just like Marvel and DC didn't on the time comics was extremely popular.

Typical weeaboo ignorance.

You just don't understand the manga industry and you're applying what little you know of the comic book industry to it. Just stop.

It's like you didn't even read the whole post...

This. There's literally no difference between manga and capeshit. At least some western comics are independent and don't get milked, but with manga there's no outsider art at all, it's all corporate products.