HiC was supposed to be about why Wally did it

No bullshit, will story time it later tonight

>>BleedingCool

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Low quality comics built on some manchild crying about how Watchmen for ed him to make pointlessly violent comics, sll while hiding behind relaunch hype, they've tried to valiantly publish $2.99 comics in the past but this time they overshipped over half their line to compensate.

>overshipped

I don't think you understand what that word means.

Doubleshipped*

After midnight, when it's officially released, right? It's not a leak then. Coward.

And I suppose you think the New 52 with it's edge and discarding of characters and history was the best thing ever?

No. Rebirth is just worse.

Rebirth let me down in a lot of ways. It's clear that Didio and his people didn't want it and were working against it from the beginning. But there still managed to be some good stuff and ideas out of rebirth if they had people who actually wanted to get behind them. I'd still consider Rebirth better than either the new 52 or the current shitshow.

Tell us, how would you run DC? What do you want emulate?

Rebirth was dishonest shit full of dogshit writers, writers still there at DC right now. No creativity, just recycled plots, boring shit and overall low quality. Geoff Johns is a retard and his cult fanbase is a cancer. By far the worst period in the history of DC.

>How would you run DC
By hiring actually good writers, and not bottom of the barrel shit like Tynion, Tomasi, Percy, Venditti and other shitty writers who were at the forefront of Rebirth.

>dishonest buzzword response

Johns actually seems to have been where a lot of rebirth's good ideas came from and everything really started to go to shit when he gave up what control he had(though Didio and his ilk were already sabotaging things). I've had problems with him in the past, but it's clear most of the shit is Didio's fault. And yeah I had fears that Rebirth was just same old management just pretending to have learned it's lesson. I don't even think rebirth was a great success and dropped a lot of balls.

And you've fail to say what kind of DCU you actually want.

Like who?

Rebirth was set to fail from the beginning with shitty writers they had. Then Johns had to go ahead and bring back Cucka and Robinson. Rebirthtards would've praised Austen too if Johns would've brought him back.

Dan DiDio, don't you have glaring continuity errors to ignore?

Why are rebirthtards so brain-dead to repeat the same meme a million times and never being able to defend their favorite titles? They literally prove the opposite viewpoint to be objectively true.

Buzzwords, nothing of substance. This is why we should defund public education, your kind shouldn't be allowed to read.
And you continue with your sophistry

Yeah Rucka and Robinson's WW was crap. One of the failures of Rebirth as Rucka ultimately accomplished nothing but getting rid the 52 version of the Amazons despite teasing us with the possibility Wonder Woman getting her post crisis history back only not to follow through. And Robinson was clearly just doing an assignment job with the long lost brother plot that nobody wanted.

You aren't actually answering the questions.

>rebirth
>good ideas

Substance for what? For proving that an era with no good comics at all wasn't the highest point of DC? An era that was so bad that Jurgens was seen as a saviour?

Did New 52 Teen Titans happen? Yes or no.

>nothing of substance
Just like rebirth

Morrison, Ellis, Ennis, Russell, Way, Watters, Spurrier, Parker are or have written recently for DC. Johns couldn't tap any of them.

I liked The Superman family, Jon Kent, Supersons( al, ruined by Bendis aging up jon), the idea of a silverage titans reunion(they dropped the ball by not fixing Donna's origin and having wally completely derailed with flash war and this shit), the Dark Trinity outlaws(ruined by Lobdell dumping Bizarro and Artemis in hell first chance got because apparently he didn't actually want to write them even though he was doing great job for something he didn't like. What the fuck?)

You people aren't actually able to convey what kind of DC universe you want.

People bought into Rebirth purely off that first special. It really sold a positive change that DC did not deliver on

That's not a leak, dude

Percy’s Green Arrow delivered. Seeley’s Night wing run was great. Tomasi’s Superman was good also

Rebirth sold well consistently. Compare Tomsai's Superman to Bendis'

Superman went from Tomasi and Jurgens to Bendis. You could argue it got worse but to me both "eras" are unreadable trash that I just didn't read. Lobdell is and always has been a hack. If you dislike the recent issues that's your fault for sucking this hack's cock for two years. And the fact that you actually want recycled Titans comics says a lot.

It sold because it was a line wide relaunch. Guess what, those always sell. Hell, Rebirth was so scummy that it didn't launch with a brand new #1 for every title, it launched with two #1's for each title.

Titans was good until they broke the team, Green Lanterns and HJ&TGLC were solid, and Super Son's is still great.

>Didioshills are attacking any thread with even a single positive mention of Rebirth
I love how absolutely ass-ravaged Rebirth has made these fat fucks.

Rebirth was a return to post crisis continuity undoing the actual company wide relaunch.

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I admit I've been back stabbed by Lobdell. But he must have actually taken a professional attitude when it came to rebirth if he was writing a set up didn't want if only he'd been equally professional and respectful when writing the characters out. I've been feeling betrayed.

Something tell's me we hate Bendis for different reasons. You have grude against him from things he did over at marvel, while I'm angry over him trashing the superman family dynamic, which you hate just as much as black spiderman or gay iceman, don't you?

I suppose you in Didio's camp of feeling the Titans age the JL and are a "threat" to them, don't you?

You supposedly hate both the New 52 edge and no history, as well as Rebirth's intended pre-New-52 nostalgia and hopefullness. What kind of universe do you actually want?

>Super Son's is still great
Not for much longer, unless Jon can be deaged.

Delivered what? Mediocre writing?

Be honest, is there a day in your life when you don't start sperging out shouting about DIDIOMAN BAD ?

>What kind of universe do you actually want?
He doesn't want a universe. He just wants meaningless lines and scribbles on a blank, colorless page. No depth, no characters, no setting. Just scribbles.

Or maybe he wants good comics instead of writing linewide fanfic and throwing a temper tantrum when the reality doesnt meet his headcanon.

This story wouldn’t irritate me nearly as much as it does if it wasn’t canon. Exploring the psychological ramifications of a hero’s actions is fascinating as fuck. Seeing it through the prism of someone as abused as Booster Gold is a great idea! Making this canon is a fucking terrible idea, especially when you consider the wider ramifications. They bring in DR. FUCKING MANHATTAN just to bring back Wally, and to signal that DC is going to return to lighter stories as a direct consequence of Doomsday Clock (which is what that narrative seems to be implying through its criticism of addressing real world politics in comics, by showing how incredibly complicated such things would get), but then we get this shit, Jason Todd losing his mind and DCeased. Like, I just don’t get this shit.

That is the point, yes. People had high expectations because of how invested the special got them

If new 52 was so good, why did it get canned for Rebirth?

I want a DC Universe with more good comics than fan service. Say whatever you want about DC post Infinite crisis, DC still managed to put out some all time stand out runs like Gotham Central, Bat epic, Manhunter, Dial H, Soule's Swamp Thing, Morrison's Action Comics. Rebirth was completely devoid of that. Nothing from Rebirth was even half as good as the stuff I mentioned.

You don't want shit other than something so nebulous no writer can ever meet your 'standards' for what you REALLY want. Shut the fuck up unless you're going to actually tell us what kind of DCU you want.

>Originally heroes in crisis was going to be a special exploring Wally’s life asking “Why” he killed everyone instead of “who” killed everyone
Yeah, I doubt that.
King backpedaled on shit before and having everyone shit of HiC makes me really doubtful about the truth of those words

Because dc you flopped and Geoff Johns was getting more control at the time

The only reason those runs are praised is because the rest of the New52 was so shit. People have pointed out great Rebirth runs and you just dismissed them because you consider it can service.

I'm hoping Doomsday Clock will end with Manhattan rebooting the DCverse again because clearly this current one is going down the shitter.

JSA will be back, Wally won't be a fucking dead psycho, Jon's a kid again, Jason back on decent terms with the Bat. Dick isn't some retard. The works.

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My problem with Rebirth was that it was a pussboi of a relaunch.
They should have just fired 60% of the staff, replace them and start over

Man, I hope you’re never in charge of a company or ever allowed to make HR decisions.

Wouldn't matter everyone is ignoring Doomsday Clock as is. Bendis is doing a Legion story where Superman creates the United Planets in July.

Justice League and Young Justice are currently telling the same story yet they're contradicting each other

And of course Heroes in Crisis is a mess, even the Three Jokers has been ignored by the Batman writers, John's is done at DC, he needs to do some indie stuff or go back to Marvel and get a fresh start

I’ve always wanted editors to have less control at DC, and now I’m wondering where that monkey’s paw went.

Doomsday Clock is the latest story in the time-line I believe

>Wouldn't matter everyone is ignoring Doomsday Clock as is.
Morrison is noticing it and incorporating its elements into his GL run. That's literally all that matters. Bendis and King can get bent.

Projecting much?

I'm sorry you can't see that the biggest problem of DC are the people and stories they refuse to get rid of.
It's like using a snowplow to push the snow left

>Johns deliberately delaying DClock so when the comics are at their lowest, things get reverted to a better time.
BASED JOHNS DOES IT AGAIN!!!

DC is fucked.

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>Gotham Central,
Pre-Infinite Crisis
> Bat epic,
Which Bat Epic? Every writer tries to go for epic whenever they have bats these days. Morrison I assume. Yeah it's good
> Manhunter,
The Kate Spencer version is great
> Dial H,
New 52. And the most notable thing I remember about this being the Shocking Suzie stuff
> Soule's Swamp Thing,
New 52, but have no problem with it.
> Morrison's Action Comics.
Once again, New 52 , though I have no problem with it.

So we have two Bat family examples one Pre IC, one post. Three minor characters/franchises, one post IC, two New 52, and one New 52 era superman run.

If you let go of the legacy that DC has you end up with current Harley. I know which I prefer.

Blame Bendis. The man is never held back by editorial

I’m currently getting caught up on DC, and so far I’m liking Tomasi’s Detective Comics, Super Sons, Young Justice, Green Arrow, Teen Titans, Justice League: Odyssey and the Green Lantern. Strongly considering disregarding all of Bendis’ run because of how he’s handling Jon, and fell off from King’s Batman because he cannot keep my attention for more than five minutes at a time.

What else should I be reading right now?

King is a hack and Bendis is jerking off to black lolis and Superman getting cucked by Lois.

>P-Projecting!
Go back to Yea Forums, child.

Just because you aren't recycling ideas doesn't mean you give up on legacy, you loon.

Guess I hit a little too close to home there.

Firing sixty percent of your creative work force, in a publishing company, would be a decision you would never recover from. Good fucking lord. Who would ever work for you, knowing that’s a part of your recent history? I dream of writing for DC, but if they did that, i’d go creator owned with Dark Horse or Image.

And that's why you should just ignore them and not give them neither you attention nor your money. Most likely DClock will completely shit upon whatever they're doing when it finally finishes.

I'd say you've got the right ideas, user.

>creative work force
>creative

The only thing that may happen is the JSA coming back, though there's good reason to believe they want to find a way to back out of that commitment. And if they do they'll be dumped into the hands of either Robinson or Johns because they're the only people who care about the JSA as a whole(Palmiotti cares about Power Girl, but probably not the rest) and its clear that Robinson has been out of creative juices for a while and Johns is to busy.

King and Michael Brian Bendis the comicbook writer won't get a penny from me.

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Most of the creative staff isn't even full time under DC user, that's really only King and Bendis.
You get rid of editors and retards like Didio

They did sign a lot of hacks under exclusive, moron, or did you forget? Humphries, John Timms, Williamson...

I'd consider Wonder Woman. Its not anything spectacular but they're not doing anything offensive and are working towards getting Themyscira and the Amazons out of the dimensional lockdown they've been under since Rucka. Wilson also expressed an interest in possibly cleaning up Donna's origin in a twitter post. If she could also rescue Artemis after what ever Lobdell does with her in the annual I'd be pretty happy.

Is Wilson still on Wondy?

Been saying this theory for a while. Might at least be his intention. Maybe even with an okay from DilDio in case sales have tanked due to this bullshit.
If it will be done, or if it will be done right and they'll pull it off, that's another story.

Hahahahahaha. Are you fucking retarded? Only three of those are from new 52. Rebirthtards confirmed to never read a comic before rebirth. You've got to be a brainlet to think somebody like Tomasi or Percy is even fit enough to be in the same sentence as Morrison or Mieville. Name a Rebirth comic which was even one fourth as good as any issue from Multiversity.

This guy is unirocally right.

Do we seriously have to pretend shit like Tom King's Batman is good now?

Flash Rebirth was good.

No, no, it wasn't.

I want to believe it, I truly do, but DC seems to be doing everything within their power to mess with things.
Been burnt too many times before.

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People actually like King's Batman? Those poor souls. #50 should've been the wakeup call for the Stockholm sufferers.

Williamson wanted to have Wally, Bart, and Jay appear in the series more but clearly editorial struck that down. Not calling him a great writer but he's not shit like Bendis or King, even if that's a low bar to jump.

Fuck no

'K. Nobody's been comparing anyone to Morrison or others like him. You're just an autist obsessed with shitting on people who like Rebirth for no discernible reason.

See the thing that gets me about REBIRTH is that the writing was on the wall. While Geoff Johns, Dan Jurgen, and Greg Rucka might have been genuine about their desire to bring some pre-Flashpoint elements that worked back, most of the other editors and writers weren't.

So what they did to game the readers was push for classic pairings - Clark and Lois, Ollie and Dinah, Bruce and... Selina, and so on -, but they did so in such a contrived, forced, and lazy way possible. This is most apparent in the Percy's Green Arrow book. Black Canary just shows up and a few pages later she and Green Arrow are a couple. It was obvious that Percy also didn't knew why people like the couple. He just had Black Canary constantly belittling and putting Green Arrow down.
The other thing was bring the classic teams back, but once again in the most contrived, forced and lazy way. There was no "why" to any of it.
Then the last point was the most lazy one yet. They just started to redo classic stories again. Like the Teen Titans and Titans book redoing the classic Judas Contract storyline, but redoing it in such a way that the classic one never happened so they could do this new one as if it was a new thing. Or redoing some classic couples just because when none of it makes sense like Raven dating Kid Flash, but this time it is the New 52 version of Raven and the black Wallace West. Or redoing the old Wally, Donna, and Roy love triangle, and honestly, who asked for that?

But the most important they never touched outside of throwing some empty references that doesn't mean anything in the grand scheme of things: which is to bring back the pre-Flashpoint canon back.

You're proving him right retard. He's making you his bitch, give some actual arguments.

Fabian and Lobdell should be writing DC events

>But the most important they never touched outside of throwing some empty references that doesn't mean anything in the grand scheme of things: which is to bring back the pre-Flashpoint canon back.

They technically brought a lot of pre-flashpoint canon back in Superman Reborn. We see the post-crisis justice league for example years before the New 52 one. That quickly was ignored by many writers though, likely because like you say there many people didn't really care about the idea of bringing back past-continuity.

I am just browsing and uninformed and curious. Who has Wally killed? What's the general plot?

Tons of D listers. The one relevant one is Roy, I guess.

>it launched with two #1's for each title.
Is such a thing even possible?!

As a past Kingfag, this was weirdly the straw that broke the camel's back for me. I know I'm not the only butthurt loser who was mad at the wedding fiasco, but you've got to admit it pushed a lot of people over the edge, ESPECIALLY considering the filler we have now. So having an event where somewhat fan-favorite characters, especially one that was held up as the "Herald of Hope" like Wally was, killed off in an OOC moment in an ultimately OOC event due to King's inability to analyze previously established versions of them and just butcher them with his dialogue and piss-poor pacing/plotting doesn't sit well with me. I'm obviously not alone in this opinion and I'm not hiding my Wally/Royfaggery, but this is it? THIS is the death of Wally West after editorial just dropped the ball on Doomsday Clock? What a waste, what an absolute waste.

It's about some retarded PTSD clinic for heroes and Wally snapped.

>*after editorial just dropped the ball on Rebirth
I assume?

He should team up with Hal Parallax, Hawk Extant, Obsidian, and Captain Atom Monarch and make a League of evil 90s characters.