Anime, AT, and SU

I actually know some people like that, tho. Normally they just watch the garbage battle shonen that is mainstream at the time and are scared to watch anything else by fear of exposing their shit taste.

nah man just go watch flapjack or regular show

i've seen like 2 or three episodes of each... are they actually good? I wasn't really impressed by what I saw

The second fin took his hat off AT went crashing down hill. God this noodle arm pigshit is had to stomach

hard*

wait so are you saying steven universe is better, or just that AT is bad? also can someone tell me what exactly made AT bad? Everyone's saying "oh dude it just got super shitty halfway through" but there aren't any legitimate reasons

AT is the best cartoon of this decade. People here don't really tend to like the later seasons but I think they're great for the most part.

The issues that crop up come that at a point, the show stopped being about Adventures and focused more on either weird philosophical ideas, and Finns love life.

Finns love life sucked super fucking hard because it turned him into a little bitch that kept fucking things up with almost any girl he actually got into a relationship with.

Twice, is there an episode where a past love interest tries to get his help, and he spends the whole episode trying to get back with them; he literally does nothing to help and infact seemed like more of a distraction at best, and an annoying pest a worst.

Then more issues keep cropping up as they keep on introducing more characters, their arcs, more plots threads, building and building as we slowly loose sight of Finn and Jake, who become more and more like side characters in their own show.

All building up to one of the worst done finales ever, that messily tries to tie all the plot threads introduced in the last season, but fails at this when Finn and Jake are so worthless in it, they might as well not even had been there at all.

>Here's the first question: if I enjoy most anime, will these two shows be enjoyable, too?
The makers of those show (especially SU) are massive weaboos and it show in their work, so most likely, yes.
>Second, which do y'all think is better?
I would say SU, as its tones remain more cohesive throughout seasons.
AT has several Shifts as it keep going. Some say that it turns bad, but I disagree. IMO, it's all good from start to finish with what I consider only two bad episodes where Finn act out of character for the sake of plot progression. Other than thos two episode,, I consider all of them good. But it switch toward direction some fan of the earlier seasons didn't like, so it will be up to your tastes.

I see. Those aspects of the show do sound pretty fucking aggravating, especially the whole retarded love life stuff. However, the issue detailed in your second post actually sound like good aspects of the show, not bad. While it sucks that Finn and Jake become less of a focus, it seems kinda cool that the creators try to flesh out other important characters rather than just develop 2. I suppose it comes down to whether or not the other characters are written well.

Would I be wasting my time if I just watched them both?

Not really, I wouldn't say either of them are bad, and even if you end up disliking them, forming your own opinion is important.

>The issues that crop up come that at a point, the show stopped being about Adventures
But that's not true.

>it turned him into a little bitch that kept fucking things up with almost any girl he actually got into a relationship with.
It happens in season 5 and he get over it rather early in season 6. and no. it's only with one girl things turn bad he he ended up reconciliating with her after some time.

his ability to fight still gets fucked and he loses most of his charm. he's "average"

>mature developmentfags
S1-4 >>>>>>> all other seasons. It's a mediocre story that's shit at being Adventure Time

Good post

Yes because if you can accept the wide gaps of filler in anime then that's both show's biggest problems fulfilled for you

>his ability to fight still gets fucked
Not really. quite the opposite, he become a better fighter and even get teaching from Ratttleball.
>>>>>>>> all other seasons.
Disagreeing. Especially with episode like Is that you or Hall of Egress, or Infinity Train.

The problem is that AT went bad for like 6 different reasons that all take a while to explain.

Notably:
-reasons related to both Rebecca Sugar and Pendolton Ward leaving the show
-reasons related to the show shifting from slice of life to lore heavy to full on ongoing story
-romantic plot tumor for everyone involved (people meme about marceline and PB but they had the least bad relationship stuff over everyone

And each of those points can have multiple things attached like:

-for the first one, Sugar and Ward leaving led to a general quality dip
-it also led to a lot of the other writers trying to write their own emotional/philosophical episode as a breakout episode like Sugar did to end up in SU

AT is such a weird show and is so just....odd that I remember that I dropped it, went back to marathon S6 out of curiosity, enjoyed it and still decided to never engage with the show again.

SU also has problems (which I could go into as well) but it at least has a more engaging story and focuses on many different characters consistently and I did enjoy it more, even if I still have those last 4 or so episodes to watch. Also Lapis sucks so prepare for that

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>animes

They’re better than whatever AT or SU want to be

>Pendolton Ward leaving the show
Pen never left the show and kept voicing LSP and was deeply involved in the writing of the Islands arc. He just stopped being the showrunner to leave the job to Muto because it was too stressful and exhausting to him, bit he was still part of the writing team.

>went back to marathon S6 out of curiosity, enjoyed it and still decided to never engage with the show again.
You should. To be honest, looking at your tastes, you might be disappointed by the Show's final, but I am certain you would thoroughly enjoy the Islands arc.

Both shows are shit.

I keep hearing that I left right as it got better and I may check it out someday, but the individual episodes I enjoyed (Jermaine is now my fav episode of the series) doesnt stop how completely empty I felt after every single plot point amounted to nothing, all the setup was wasted, and all the characters just start acting differently to be deep in the end. Like its not that it was bad, it just completely drained my ability to be invested in anything it does which made continuing completely futile

I did see part of the final with no context (the further future stuff) which was kinda interesting though I get the feeling that with context its gonna be a "in the end nothing mattered and the world is falling to ruin anyways" which is the kind of unsatisfying conclusion that sounds super AT if its true.

Im probably gonna give the miniseries stuff a shot once Im done catching up on all my other shit

Oh, my bad.

If Rebecca Sugar was as good as a showrunner as she was an idea woman and designer, SU would be far better than it is - But she has admitted she more or less just lets her crew do what they want. They want to write about the townies being cute rather than Steven going on Adventures, so we get a ton of townie episodes. Staff all have different ideas of who to ship characters with, so we get different episodes about that - all rewriting character development.

The only time I recall her putting her foot down, at least to public knowledge, was the Zuke disaster, because Zuke personally derailed Lapis's whole arc that Sugar had been planning since the show began - among other things.

I think Sugar knows she's part of the problem, but knows it's too late to buckle down and change things. She is talented, but she's messed up what could have been great.

Adventure Time on the other hand... Well, when you have new staff brought on board who admit they don't like the main character and want him to suffer because they have to write for him, well, I think you can see why the show took a nose dive.

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>"in the end nothing mattered and the world is falling to ruin anyways"
IT doesn't end this way actually, though I could see people interpretating that way.

Personally, I see it closer to the ending of the Justice League Unlimited cartoon (if you have seen it): "We have won an important battle, but the adventure goes on.", but this time we also get to see a glimpse of the far future.

>and want him to suffer because they have to write for him
Admittedly, the writing crew grew on him rather quickly and ended up giving up good resolution. Even in Stacked, that people tend to posture as the the evidence that they hated Finn end with Finn being the voice of reason and the only one to keep an heroic soul, keeping Marceline from committing something really wrong.

Marcy and PB is the most cancerous as bright on by your own reasoning of SoL to ongoing. Not to mention caving to fans, changing character dynamics and interactions, refusing to have Marcy with Finn etc

Name one fight he won outright. I’ll wait.

Holy shit what if Finn and Steven fused

What Zuke disaster? I know some SU behind the scenes stuff but not specifics. But this all sounds right. Townie stuff is like a black hole of who gives a shit, and whenever an episode name has Onion or Ronoldo in the title I know Im in for 11 minutes of pure misery. I think calling her a better ideas person than executor is the most succinct way to describe the show's issues. Because in the end so much of the good gets bogged down by how it's done. Like Im like 5 or 6 seasons in the show and Stevonnie has had maybe one episode where the training has mattered, like so much of the show feels like filler.

Marcy and PB having a thing felt like such an early tease that I could hardly care when it happened. The PB/Finn/FP/Cinnamon Bun shit was the real hell.

Ive seen it but I dont remember the end at all actually. I need to see that too.

>Name one fight he won outright

-Davey
Finn defeat a dragon at the start of the episode

-A Glitch is a Glitch
Defeat the glitch

-Puhoy
The Blanket Dragon

-Dungeon Train
Many, many monsters

-We Fixed a Truck
The lizard

-The Pit
Kee-Oth

-Blade of Grass
Many Grass enemies

-Escape from the Citadel
The Lich (definitely)

-Something Big
The witch and Darren

-The Comet
Orgalorg

-Crossover
Alternate Lich

-Three Buckets
Fern

-The Wild Hunt
the Grumbo

>What Zuke disaster?
It honestly didn't transpire in the show as much as people pretend it does (in the end, Sugar make it a point to make sure all character remain true to her vision), but the way Zuke wanted to make some characters progress contradicted Sugar's vision and Zuke left. Zuke complained about it in a private blog, but it got leaked.

Sums up my feelings pretty well. Thanks user, you saved my fingers some work.

what were some of the changes that he wanted to make? Curious now

Yes. Don't listen to Yea Forums they just don't like gay people

Honestly Steven universe was my favorite, I just wish that they'd have made all the seasons as long as season 1. Season 2 and 3 are basically 1 season split into two, same with 4 and 5. The airing schedule really didn't help the pacing, especially considering that the overaching plots for these are the same.

Shipping two characters.

and Where is this "private blog leak" thing?

I still can't find anything about it, the times I've searched.

The Marcy/PB shit is what led into the Finn/PB split and in turn the Finn/FP/CB bullshit
If things can so easily be changed around for lesbians, why not for Finn? Because pandering.

Don’t get me wrong. Early Finn was great and didn’t need to be tarnished the way he was later one.

>The Comet
>Blade of Grass
Actually was the cursed squid which would later evolve into Fern. Blade of grass proves that it was the cursed sword doing the work especially in Blade of Grass. Finn couldn’t do quick and precise cuts like that even with Rattleballs’ help. It would take years of hard training for him to become the Samurai Jack of Ooo. Training that was forgotten in order to push stupid philosophical bullshit about morality when he already had screws in place as a kid. Also didn’t Both Finn and Rattleballs get absolutely fucked by Roid Susan? C’mon user.

>Crossover
>Citadel
Would’ve gotten his ass handed to him if not for special circumstances (the maid and the goop on the ground)

>Wild Hunt
Wasn’t that with baiting from HW?

>Fern
And he got demolished by Fern in Seventeen. It’s obvious that if Fern was prepared for Finn’s sneak attack, he would’ve eaten his cake.

SU is the American Bleach; it starts absolutely amazing, but turns into the very definition of mediocrity starting with season 2 and just keeps getting worse from there, thanks to a combination of budget cuts and a lack of ambition

AT in its prime is one of the best shows CN's ever put out, and even though it does decline eventually it still stays good longer than SU and doesn't get anywhere near as bad. Most of the issues with later AT are simply a byproduct of the type of show it is. A story light show with strong continuity can only stay good so long before it collapses under its own weight

Both shows are definitely worth watching at their peaks, but you shouldn't really watch past said peaks

>Actually was the cursed squid which would later evolve into Fern
Nope, that was still Finn. Cursed only come out later in Is that You where it become a sword. Before that Finn is the holder of the Grass Sword. He is to be fully credited for those victory

>Would’ve gotten his ass handed to him if not for special circumstances
Taking advantage of what you got is part of what make you a good fighter. It's still fight he won

>>Wild Hunt
The grumbo is a beast he hunt with Hunter, but he is the one to kill it, rescuing Huntress in the process.

>And he got demolished by Fern in Seventeen
Hence why I didn't mention Seventeen. He still won against Fern in Three Bucket and foiled his plan. Also, Fern cheated his way in Seventeen.

Yeah but what I mean is I dont hate the original pandering in the first place, or Finn and PB splitting. Both of those could have happened and things turn out fine. I can definitely call the Marcy/PB romance a source of issues in that case but that concept itself means nothing to me. I dont care about the romances on principle, but because they got in the way. Maybe Mrcy/PB got in the way later on but I stopped watching by then.

Its like, I hate what the romance in Regular Show became, but dont hate the initial Mordecai whatshername breakup.

Romance in Adventure time didn't really get in the way except for the break up of Finn with FP. Other than that, even with Marcie and PB, it kept being complementary to the story.

>I'm a pretty big fan of anime in general. I've enjoyed every anime that I have seen, and they span several different genres, from shonen stuff (mostly) to a couple odyssey shows to "slice of life" stuff.
>I've enjoyed every anime that I have seen
>shonen stuff (mostly)

Clearly you don't have good taste, so I don't know why you doubt about enjoy those shows.

The concept is fine, the execution and reasoning for it existing in the first place is shit. All you need to do is go back in PB’s history alone and issues spring up that get in the way of canon.

>Maybe Mrcy/PB got in the way later on but I stopped watching by then.
Getting in the way of flourishing on their own? Yes. But you stopped watching.

>complementary
Meshing two characters together for the sake of diversity doesn’t seem like that. What’s complementary about their relationship? Give me reasons to support it.

Whoops wrong posts linked.

>Finn gets credit
Blade of Grass, motherfucker. From day one it was established the CURSED grass sword had a mind of its own.

Finn never had and never would tame the grass sword, otherwise it would have not fused with the Finn sword in order to take over its body. It pulled a con on him. Finn tamed Billy’s gauntlet in Mortal Folly, never the grass sword so any “accomplishments” he had with it is null and void. Muto apparently was adverse to giving Finn “power ups” throughout the show’s run and that would play right into their way of writing things.

>Taking advantage of what you got is part of what make you a good fighter
So him getting his ass handed to him fair and square by AMO and Bandit Princess is fair game too. And don’t forget hulk Susan (which you left out refuting) and the Stakes Vampires.

>Hence why I didn't mention Seventeen
5 years worth of “development” and he’s a considerably worse fighter than he was before. But hey! He went through an unnecessarily long “maturity” arc filled with a deadbeat dad, a rich snake oil salesman and romantic feels! That’s about evens things out right.

He didn’t rescue Huntress. If Finn pussied out again, she’d be sharp enough to get out of the way in the nick of time. Hardly an accomplishment when he had to be goaded into doing the deed instead of just slicing the fuck outta it like earlyFinn would.

>the execution and reasoning for it existing in the first place is shit
Not really.
>All you need to do is go back in PB’s history alone and issues spring up that get in the way of canon.
Except that's false. There is no contradiction.

>for the sake of diversity doesn’t seem like that
"For the sake of diversity" is never a valid complain, either the ship work or i doesn't. And in this case, it does.

> What’s complementary about their relationship?
It's complementary tot he rest of the story. It doesn't get in the way and add to the rest of it.

>Blade of Grass, motherfucker. From day one it was established the CURSED grass sword had a mind of its own.
Up until it merge with Finn's sword, it is under Finn's control. What it does is what Finn want it to do.

>So him getting his ass handed to him fair and square by AMO and Bandit Princess is fair game too
I never mentioned those episode, You are not making a point.

>5 years worth of “development” and he’s a considerably worse fighter than he was before.
He is a far better fighter, he just met stronger opponent. Fern is literally a version of himself with grass power. He also greatly improved in wising up and finding other ways than violence to win.

>He didn’t rescue Huntress
He did. the Grumbo was about to get her.

Piling a metric ton of shit over the initial contradiction, no matter how sweet it is to you and it’s shippers, is still a contradiction.

There’s the obvious one of the paintings in The Duke depicting a young PB with tiara and outfit before the candy kingdom was ever conceived. Nobody in the candy kingdom asking about Marceline when she shows up again. Nobody shipping Pb and Marceline like they did Finn and PB in Pajama War, Marceline apparently not telling Finn about Pb’s ‘real age’ when he was pining for her, no other rulers apparently knowing about PB’s long age despite her being around at Ooo’s conception and running politics since, PB and Marceline being arguably the only same sex couple around in Ooo, and no couples created in PB’s kingdom. There’s also the mentality and mood whiplash of S1PB and flashback PB. S1PB is insanely less competent and straightforward as nuPB. If nuPB was S1 PB she’d tell Finn he has no chance with her whatsoever.

>Up until it merge with Finn's sword, it is under Finn's control. What it does is what Finn want it to do.
Did you forget all the characters exclaiming that the sword is cursed? Do you not remember Finn saying “is that you, or...me?” when shocked at the sudden increase in accuracy and deadliness in his strikes? Finn did not get that better on his own.

>>So him getting his ass handed to him fair and square by AMO and Bandit Princess is fair game too
I never mentioned those episode, You are not making a point
I am making the same point I always was. Finn’s ability to be successful in fighting fell off a cliff after Frost and Fire. Dude got his ass beat by a point blank shot to the face by AMO and stomped by Susan and the Vampires. This lack of growth is obscured by the romance and “what is right” bullshit he went through in the later seasons with Gumbald, King of Ooo and Fern.

>He is a far better fighter,
No. Fight King Finn was a better warrior.

>over the initial contradiction
There is no intial contradiction, user.
>depicting a young PB with tiara and outfit before the candy kingdom was ever conceived.
And ?
>Nobody in the candy kingdom asking about Marceline when she shows up again. >Nobody shipping Pb and Marceline like they did Finn and PB in Pajama War,
Those aren't contradiction.

>Marceline apparently not telling Finn about Pb’s ‘real age’ when he was pining for her, no other rulers apparently knowing about PB’s long age despite her being around at Ooo’s conception and running politics since,
Everyone already know about PB's age and Marceline has no reason to tell Finn either. Even Finn has know PB as an adult all of his life.
>PB and Marceline being arguably the only same sex couple around in Ooo,
Again, that's not a contradiction.
>There’s also the mentality and mood whiplash of S1PB and flashback PB. S1PB is insanely less competent and straightforward as nuPB. If nuPB was S1 PB she’d tell Finn he has no chance with her whatsoever.
Not true, already a rule of a powerful kingdom and good with science. Also, Finn doesn't confess to PB up until season 3.

>Did you forget all the characters exclaiming that the sword is cursed?
The sword being cursed doesn't mean Finn wasn't in control.

>I am making the same point I always was. Finn’s ability to be successful in fighting fell off a cliff after Frost and Fire.
Except it didn't and I jut showed you episde where he does. alll you did was say "no it doens't count" without providing a vlid argument for it. It didn't fell in a cliff, he showed proficeincy numerous time after it and also encountered stronger ennemies. Not only that, but he also got trained by Rattleball.

>No. Fight King Finn was a better warrior.
Nope. He get better after his training with Rattleball.

>And.
The candy kingdom was only in its early stages while PB was an ADULT, YEARS after the events of Bonnibel Bubblegum (where she did NOT have a kingdom.) The picture of her in The Duke contradicts everything presented after The Vault and it’s a pretty significant one considering it allowed for PBM shippers and fans to bulldoze their way into canon (that is if her age wasn’t changed to make room for it in the first place) while also leaving FinnFP fans in the cold to get fucked over. Pretty sad when your whole lesson about “accepting romance can’t happen” is contradicted by shippers.

>Those aren't contradiction.
If BG82 doesn’t even bring Marceline up despite their hundreds of years of friendship and being around the CK, I can safely assume it was crammed in.

>Marceline has no reason to tell Finn either.
No reason to tell the last human after protecting them in Stakes and Finn repairing the hatchet between her, Hunson and PB. Right.

> Also, Finn doesn't confess to PB up until season 3.
What show are you watching you nut? She knew as early as Richardio and capitalized on it when she turned 13 again.

>Again, that's not a contradiction.
In terms of there being no other same sex couples except the special immortal lesbians? Don’t you believe there’s more than 1 same sex couple around in real life? And why wouldn’t she give same sex couples a stab? She made a Root Beer Guy and Cherry Cream Soda husband and wife, though no representation on the other side. Hmmm. Could it be that you are just falling for pandering?

>Not true, already a rule of a powerful kingdom and good with science
The candy kingdom was NOT powerful in season 1-2. Ice King slipped in effortlessly and she constantly had to rely on Finn and Jake to carry out tasks on her behalf.

Your English is also shaky, and it might be a blind guess but I think you’re also the person who legit thought Betty was PB from that creepypasta vid.

>Except it didn't and I jut showed you episde where he does
You haven’t shown a damn thing. The episodes you “have” I’m disputing with the cursed grass sword and I believe I make a more convincing case than you. Why isn’t Finn as good with the rapier sword? The only time I can recall him thrashing someone was the ghosts in Marcy and Hunson, and that didn’t even take any effort, just one swipe and it was over. So strong! Early Ice King put up more of a fight.

>He get better after his training with Rattleball.
The only useful thing he learned was a downward thrust he only used once in elements. Need I remind you of Rattleballs AND Finn getting the tar beaten out of them by Susan?

>The sword being cursed doesn't mean Finn wasn't in control
You nut. It already was capable of moving on its own without Finn’s consent. It was evil all along and fooling Finn into trying to not harm it further was apart of its plan. Using the Finn sword as a vessel was only a bonus.

>Even Finn has know PB as an adult all of his life.
16 to 18? Sure. Not a millennia old. The writers didn’t even have her that old early on. The entire point of the ending of Mortal Recoil was a MORTAL Bubblegum aging down

>Those aren't contradiction.
Not one citizen going “Hey, Marceline! Where have you been?” when she’s been around for centuries is grounds for suspicion.

This is exactly the opinion I've heard the most, and actually the one I myself held before i stopped watching both shows. Not really sure why I stopped, maybe I picked something else up and never came back to them.

You would 100 percent like Steven universe. I was in a similar situation as you and SU clicked with me big time

You know, anime are just cartoons that are made in Japan.

>AT are simply a byproduct of the type of show it is. A story light show with strong continuity can only stay good so long before it collapses under its own weight
Probably because the continuity and writing itself is written on the fly? Seriously. Only so much shit you can pile in before the novelty wears off. Ooo could’ve still been a fantastic place with stories to still tell under decent direction.

Ok cool! Thanks man
Yeah you're completely right, but saying that the ONLY difference is JUST that they were made in Japan is actually a pretty big difference, simply because of the different art styles, cultural values, and other shit like that

I like anime and I like them both. Just watch them and make up your own mind.

Well I mean if you are looking for over-arching and serious stories, some cartoons are like that, and if you are looking for silly episodic adventures, anime has those too, and both feature and array of artstyles.

>I've always enjoyed anime
Weeaboo

nani the fuck?

>weeb who hasn't even had his first shitfest experience
>AT and SU are NOSTALGIC
Oh, wow. It's been a while since I saw literal kids post on here. Most are at least edgy teens by the time they find this place. What are the mods doing?

Wtf Yea Forums why is this bait thread still up?

because you touch yourself at night