Was it significant, I personally think it was a product of the rebelling 90's...

That's one of the most insulting things you can say about a comic. You're right though.

Humans got a fascination with gross stuff, did you read the whole way through?

Where can I find it?

>Was it significant
No, watchmen is a better deconstruction of superheroes

>rebelling 90's

It was mostly a reaction to the reader poll death of Jason Todd packed in with the idea that exploiting children was at the heart of the comic industry

The Maximortal was more about how the industry views/treats the writers/artists

Was this design kino?

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But how do we get our hands on the sequels?!?

Best villain design in comics history. Prove me wrong

I think It's the best symbolic supervillain design

i liked it, i found out gay slurs which i didnt know existed

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Can someone post the alternate ending with convention?

Can't find it

Yeah, I feel grimey. I hate gross stuff

>It was mostly a reaction to the reader poll death of Jason Todd packed in with the idea that exploiting children was at the heart of the comic industry
This guy must have been a hell of Jason fan to be so pissed off to make this as a response.

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I don't think he cared about Jason. Veitch is a guy who was born in the early 50's. What bothered him was probably the idea of fans really relentless about calling a phone number to kill a character.

Its one of those stories made by disgruntled and jaded former Big 2 employees who hated how soulless and corporate comics had became, needless to say if it had come even a day after watchman it would not be as remembered as significant as it is today its only claim to fame is that its was doing what watchman was doing (deconstructing superhero tropes) before watchman was doing it.

For me its a 4/10 maybe if you're into more grimey/edgy its a comics 5-6/10 its a very mediocre story told very well (each of the "Evil Justice Leaghe" characters have backstories that detail their motivations but even there it seems more concerned with showing you how fucked up and evil these characters are than saying anything substantial about comics) and it holds itself back with its fascination with being grodey and edgy.

If your looking for a better deconstruction of comics tropes there are dozens of alternatives from watchman to the writers other comic in this "series" Maximortal (Much better than brat pack, its a strong 7-8/10.).
And if your looking for better gritty/edgy comics just look at Transmetropolitan(9/10) or Veitch's other comic the One(7-8/10).

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This came out after Watchman you zoomer faggot.

I love Rick Veitch, and i think this is a very good read but I don't see that it left too great an imprint on the scene. Watchmen is still relevant not just because so many writers and artists tried/were ordered to pay homage/ape it's style; but because its still highly commodotized.
We'll never have a Brat Pack flick or tv show. We'll never have Before Brat Pack spin-off comics unless Veitch does them himself. He just isn't a brand in the same way Alan Moore is, and that damns his works to relative obscurity as well.
Veitch also seems to write mostly in an over-the-top, outlandish, absurd, or downright surreal mode; look at his work in Abraxas and the Earthman to see this taken all the way. In Brat Pack we get kind of bludgeoned by the edginess in a similar manner; and for people who see deconstruction as a sort of injection of realism into the comic book dynamic, they might not be into it.

I think he wrote in the 2000AD style.

Who cares

I felt like Veitch was creating an overtly dark comic for the sake of creating an overtly dark comic with no real actual substance or meaning outside "Hey isn't that fucked up?" . Like there's no real reason for any of the """super heroes""" to be heroes except for the attention they receive, which I guess is the point. But the idea that pedo Batman is morally up righteous enough to stop crime but still diddle kids is weird. Don't get me wrong, there have been plenty examples of super heroes having darker stories, Iron Man's alcoholism as the one I usually think of, but there's a sense of trying to tell a compelling story rather than just "But what if wonder woman was a drag queen?" Veitch also acts like the death of Jason Todd didn't affect Batman when it's probably one of the most heartbreaking moments outside his parents. Sure there's the joke that he runs through Robin's like there's no tomorrow, but he still treats them like a human being and not just haphazardly throw them into danger all the time. Maybe it's just my autism acting up idk feel free to point out how I'm wrong.

It's not a deconstruction, it's just edginess for the sake of edginess. There's nothing behind the violence except more violence. Everything is just to how fucked up the story can get. It gets superheroes and makes them edgy for no reason. There's nothing to talk about, it's literally just "lets see how gross we can make this, lmao" This is the problem with most "deconstructions", they aren't even deconstruction, they're just gory and violent stories with a superhero filter. The edge is taken to extreme in which it feels like 15 year old is trying to be "dark and mature" Seeing this comic compared to Watchmen is a horrible insult to Watchmen

>Maybe it's just my autism acting up idk feel free to point out how I'm wrong.
This was all done just after Jason Todd was killed off and less than a couple years later Tim Drake was made as his replacement. Veitch, (rightfully) bitter about DC dropping his Swamp Thing Jesus arc, was in full "fuck capeshit" when he made Brat Pack -- sick of editorial shitting over his creative decisions while also forcing other writers and artists to deal with mandated characters and events.

It's not a deconstruction on the premise of sidekicks as much as it is Veitch's feelings on DC at the time. It's crass, hateful, and angry. Not that it isn't justified, but the reason it doesn't stand out as some amazing, revolutionary comic was because it wasn't and isn't. It's reads like a teenage schoolgirl writing in her diary about the bullies that were being mean to her. I think the book is a lot more enjoyable if people understood the context surrounding it.

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I think it has an edge over a lot of cape deconstructions due to how informed about the corporate business culture in the industry it is. It references a ton of specific events and it knows how damn trashy it wants to be.

>they're just gory and violent stories with a superhero filter
There is nothing wrong with this.

It's weirdly engaging. You want to know how far it will go, you want to know what's going on with the backstory, you want to know why this terrible book is happening, and the book tells you it's going to give you an explanation... And then the explanation sucks and the book calls you a dick for reading it.

What was the final of Maximortal again?

I've talked about it before, but it's using a language that is comics. It's using old EC Mad Magazine as influence. Once you become familiar with this, his comics are the ultimate satire of modern comics.

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no one said there was, it's just why Brat Pack isn't a classic while Watchmen and DKR are.

Veitch is a hardcore Jasonfag. This is his hissy fit over Batman: a Death in the Family.

>sick of editorial shitting over his creative decisions

It wasn't even editorial that fucked him over, it was Warner Brothers. He pitched the idea of Swamp Thing meets Jesus and everyone that saw it at DC was fine with it, only after the issue was penciled enough for inking to start did someone at WB catch wind and afraid of them getting the kind of Evangelical backlash that Last Temptation of Christ got Universal word was passed down that the issue could never be published and it was up to Veitch to rush out a new plot at the last minute. He walked off the project and because of the situation their first choices to replace him Neil Gaiman and Jamie DeLano refused

>Both editors Karen Berger and Dick Giordano read and tentatively OK'd the script, with the knowledge impressed upon Veitch that changes to the script might be necessary. However, upon her review of the script and artwork, DC President and Editor-in-Chief Jenette Kahn deemed the story too great a risk for publication. Given decreasing sales of comic books and major projects on the horizon for the company, a boycott or protest could hurt the company, and Kahn ordered that the story go unpublished. Though Veitch reportedly made efforts to change the script and argue the opposing side, editorial was determined, and he and Zulli resigned from the title
"DC President and Editor-in-Chief"

I know it's the hot new thing to blame the parent company for every little mistake, but revisionism and made-up facts are twice as ignorant as someone who admits they don't know anything.

You're right, it was Kahn. I knew that The Last Temptation of Christ was a factor and assumed that meant it was other movie people

Not really.
It's solid deconstruction for the time, but it didn't really make any noticeable change in the market.

I finally got to reading this and it's pretty enjoyable, granted I think Watchmen was better a the concept it was trying but overall it was pretty good. I think a lot of pages just try to be edgy for the sake of it without reason, while Watchmen always had a reason for it.My only gripe is that the comic was in black and while, the art feels like it should be in the same color as the promotional art and someone put the contrast down, if someone made a colored version that would be great.

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>deconstruction
Shut up. You clearly don't know what that word means.

Nobody does, do they?

The alternate ending is the only available ending as far as the fact that the original ending from the floppies got removed/replaced wit the TPB.

IIRC the IDW reprint even uses the TPB ending.

Just read this. Never saw his other works or is aware of anything in the series. Just got to say he shat the bed hard, especially near the end. This shouldn’t have been a 5 issue run, everything felt rushed, the characters aren’t explored, and really there isn’t much of a point to it. It points out that licenses and companies push the sidekick shtick, which hasn’t been a mystery since day 1. It takes great pain to show how repetitive the great events are, so maybe it’s more advanced than I give it credit for, but all I can think is that this didn’t need to be made. If veitch had given us an actual series on the sidekicks, or the gritty world he’s made, their fall and descent would have been more impactful.

Was Maximortal ever properly finished?

Well you can read that Maximortal TPB by itself. But if you want to go further, you read Maximortal, Brat Pack, and that Maximortal/Brat Pack comic that's an epilogue to Brat Pack and Maximortal, and is supposed to lead in to Boy Maximortal (which is only sold through Amazon).

>Boy Maximortal
What is this?

maximortal as a boy. Its only part 1 of the series though. Rick doesn't seem to be in a rush to get the rest of it out though. Seeing as he's just using Print on Demand on amazon...he should just write do the entire book at once (its not like he needs to do a monthly comic anymore)
first issue was good. Not as Over the Top as BratPack (if thats what you're into)

>maximortal as a boy
Is it the sequel of maximortal?

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I haven't read it yet, but I think it might be what happens after that scene.

Is it worth reading?

>major projects on the horizon for the company,
Burton's Batman

Sure.

>eh, readers?

>cake boy!

>Deconstruction:
>Everything you know is wrong, and here are how things really are.

Is there anything special about the "Live fast. Love hard. Die with your mask on" phrase?

Someone earlier in the thread said it was sort of a gay insult of some kind

>a method of critical analysis of philosophical and literary language which emphasizes the internal workings of language and conceptual systems, the relational quality of meaning, and the assumptions implicit in forms of expression.
Brat Pack doesn't dissect or analyze anything: it is a statement. An angry, misguided statement written by a bitter man.

It in essence is the meaning of the story since they kill of their sidekicks when they're too smart or when they're too old It's the whole meaning of what our main cast is used for in one sentence.

>Was it significant

Not really. You rarely see it get talked about beyond hardcore comic books fans, and even here its a footnote at best. Its pretty niche.

Though it does feel like the forerunner to edgy dark-comedy superhero deconstructions you'd later see Garth Ennis and Mark Millar expand upon. I know Watchman and Miracleman came first, but they took themselves seriously in a way Brat Pack, Wanted, or The Boys do not.

The version of it that I read on readcomiconline.com was decent enough. It had some interesting concepts that could have been developed more.

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It’s great

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Yes

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It really does have a mad magazine feel to it.

>Live Fast
>Love Hard
>Die With Your Mask On
This really hits me for some reason.

I like Bratpack a good amount. It helped that I knew some, not all, of the context to why it was created and why it turned out the way it did. I think that also worked into why I liked it a lot.

I think that Maximortal and The One are his best works. His 9/11 truther comic is batshit crazy and that one about a guy meeting an alien and it becoming a surreal, hallucination trip half-way through the story was fun.

Speaking of Rick, did any read Stephen R. Bissette's blog regularly? I remember reading some solid insider/how things were created stories from there. I loved reading creators experience with Joe Kubert and his school.

If y'all want a solid "deconstruction" or "dark" superhero, I recommend the pic (Marshal Law) and Engima.

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The fact it's a bunch of kids dying at the whim of rich super powers give me Salo vibes.

Whats Salo?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salò,_or_the_120_Days_of_Sodom

Marshal Law is pretty fun.

>Read the Page
EW!
I rarely say this word but its so “Degenrate”.
Who thought it was a good idea to make this?
Damn, Why are French artists so disgusting?

The director was actually murdered because this movie

It's also based off a book by Marquis de Sade. It was written during a time of Enlightenment or an era when the social, religious, and political hierarchy/structure of France (and Europe in general) was being questioned and broken.

Pornography literature was emerging out of this movement. Some of the novels were used to critique the monarchy and its corruption. Other novels were used to push boundaries. Marquis de Sade used Salo as the latter.

He was a HUGE libertine and believed that nothing should be sacred, fuck religion and morality.

Somehow I feel no sympathy for him.
>He was a HUGE libertine and believed that nothing should be sacred, fuck religion and morality.
You know what? I see more of these types of guys everyday.
What’s going on with the world today that makes guys want to do that?
Its just wrong man, being fucked up =/= Art.

Yeah, I feel like Millar just hastily tied shit together at the end. Half of the plot threads just happened and were never brought up again. That alligator one had no reason to be in the story except for just a little more edge in this terrible book.

I just read Bratpack and Maximortal because of this thread and now I feel really weird. I can't even describe the emotion. I haven't had an emotional response to a comic like this since I read "The One," by the same guy. It's strange because stories themselves don't really seem that unique or special, yet I've been thinking about it all day. Anyone else experience this?

you sound like fun

C’mon dude don’t you feel its just a little bad?
It seems kinda fucked up to do that to teenagers or am I wrong? I mean I know guys with weird fetishes but adapting Marquis de sade is a bit too much for me man.

I get displaying child rape as despicable, but the strange doctor reads like an anti-choice-extremists fever dream: "Just kill the kid, it's basically abortion!". Same doctor appears later for cancer treatment and is portrayed as a complete hack who chops of your dick on a whim. Meanwhile the female cat simply states "adopted kids are someone else's trash". Oh, and not to forget, it all started with porn from the internet. Sure reeks like conservatives here.

Marshal Law is great but I honestly feel like it's weak compared to Watchmen and Veitch's stuff. Don't get me wrong though, I still love a bunch of Law.

It's Italian.
>Marquis de Sade used Salo as the latter.
"Salo" is named after the last stage of the Italian fascist government. DeSade's novel was just 120 Days of Sodom.
>Its just wrong man, being fucked up =/= Art.
It's called the artistic temperament. Basically, every artist is a horrible human being with almost no exceptions.

I thought this but I realized that the other reading of The Unfunnies is that, it's a crazy guy on death row venting. Like for instance, one of the cops is named after the prison guard in the real world, or the stuff dealing with kids has to do with his attitude toward kids, being unable to reproduce, and the resentment toward his wife's desire for a kid.

I still wouldn't recommend the book though.

Ah, ok I get it now.
Thanks for clearing it out user.

I definitely agree. Towards the end it feels like Mills and O'Neill expelled all their angry over supes and you can see it in the writing and even the character too.

One comic I don't see talked much, maybe I've missed it, is pic related. I think it is one of the most criminally underrated supes comics out there. I was so happy when it got re-printed a few years ago.

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