The Fate of the Industry

>The industry is ruled by doughey nu males and the like who have an adverse reaction to anything edgy or violent, hence why we have so many safe and stale SOL shows.
I'm the guy you're saying is right and I have to disagree with this statement. The Avatar series is rare not because the people in the industry don't like the violence commonly found in the anime that inspire them, but because networks see ratings and target demographics and budgets and say "let's make everything easier to animate focus on kids as that's what the ad marketers want." It's fun to blame the numales, but it's completely misguided considering their referencing the violent weeb shit they wish they could make instead.

>I'm the guy you're saying is right and I have to disagree with this statement. The Avatar series is rare not because the people in the industry don't like the violence commonly found in the anime that inspire them, but because networks see ratings and target demographics and budgets and say "let's make everything easier to animate focus on kids as that's what the ad marketers want." It's fun to blame the numales, but it's completely misguided considering their referencing the violent weeb shit they wish they could make instead.
Pic related is what consists mostly of the current industry, and seeing the extreme defense of TCR and other similar cutesy “action-comedys”, its safe to say that this is the type of content they want to produce, non threatening characters with milquetoast humor thats inoffensive and connects to no one but the californian hipsters who think its relatable and therefore good. The reason why their wad such a violent push back towards criticsm of thundercats roar and the calarts meme is because they know that the type of show being vocally decried by the majority is what the majority of them want to produce exclusively, hence why so many took it so personally even when not working with the show directly.

Also, most of the weeb shit that gets referenced is either sailor moon or pokemon so nothing really violent or edgy even by nips standards.

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You're fixating on TCR as if it's the standard as if palm tree head there is an exec calling the shots. The pitches that come the way of the execs come with consideration to the success of Adventure Time and TTG as well as the failures of the last Thundercats show, Generator Rex, and Young Justice. You can try to pitch something that's risky, but they're risk averse and have the TTG to appease.

And I think most of the latest shows reference Evangelion, they don't shy away from violence themselves.

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We bare bears is the epitome of the stale cartoon genre i was talking about, so no it does shy very very far away from violence. TTG gets spammed all day on CN but it isnt doing them any favors in popularity, why are you so reluctant to put any of the blame on the animators themselves? Not saying execs are guilt free, but the animators own personalities seem to indicate a general disgust for more mature shows, or in their minds being more mature is moral grandstanding and trying to be an activist with your show as the soap box.

not him but ttg is one of the most viewed cartoons on the network me and you not liking it doesn't mean anything when the numbers come in.

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Of all the 15 cartoons on this list, which would you consider actually good?

personally unikitty, ok k.o., cotc, sci, su.
ive yet too watch total drama rama, we bare bears, ben 10 16, any new lego ninjago, and mighty magiswords, i'm also not completely caught up on at but don't really feel the need too such as ppg 16, ttg, mega man fc, and apple and onion.
i also like non listed cn titles like transformers cyberverse,villanos, and clarence.
many of them are flawed in different ways.

Only because they wont stop playing it, not because its more popular then other shows.

you realize this is for turner broadcasts of new episodes yeah?

We Bare Bears was originally more violent, Grizz even killing a girl and them exchanging her rotting body for pizza. Sugar is one of the weebest of the new guard and her show has been referencing several anime people would say is more adult, even Junji Ito. You're going with the huge leap in logic that the show runners are most at fault when the case has been for decades that shows exist because of execs. They haven't taken their hands off the wheel.

They won't stop playing it because of the ratings. Networks often overplay their most popular shows.

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What if you just promoted stuff you actually liked instead of bitching about stuff you don't like 24/7?

But it isnt that popular, in fact spamming the show has drastically reduced CNs pressence and has greatly hurt the channel

And yes, WBB problem with its nonexsistent humor and the like is entirely the showrunners/writers fault. I understand working in boundrys set up by producers but if you cant even do that and instead make a stale product that doesn't even produce a chuckle because you want to play it ridiculously safe then thats fron their lack of an ability to be good writers.

What if you read this paragraph?

>With streaming services, there's more of an avenue for riskier shows not constrained by network standards and advertising demographics, so there is more hope still. It feels that shows that are less conventional like Hilda, Bojack, Castlevania Voltron, and Love, Death, and Robots will become more common. For all its flaws, Korra being a rarity is a real shame, but there may come a time where comprehensive, narrative heavy works like it are more common. The move to streaming is the best way for cartoons to continue to improve.

Korra kicked half of these shit shows shoving relationship drama into a mediocre cartoon to try and trick a secondary fanbase into thinking the show was better than it actually is.

It only reduced it's presence with people outside their target advertising demographic. They made a successful movie after spamming it due to the high ratings. With a budget of $10 million they made back $52 million.

And WBB isn't ridiculously safe. Just this season there's been professor's chasing student tail after being seduced by strippers, beta uprising homicidal mania, and an intense assisted suicide scene. On top of that, scenes are toned down at the behest of execs, standard in the industry. Using the show to and the show runner to highlight your point only shows that the point is non-existent. There are no action shows because execs aren't buying action shows.

>Indie comic becoming mainstream through Scott Pilgrim
I may remember shit wrong, but didn't that happen with Image comics in the 90s (and Dark Horse earlier iirc) ? Spawn & co. where moving literal millions of floppies per month, not to mention cartoons, video games and movies. And those were created by comic book superstars, but those were still indie comics gone mainstream by definition.

Very true. They pretty much made the big two the big two and a half.

There's been the occasional mold-breaking animation made in the US for a long time, and it's never resulted in any lasting change in direction. In Japan the ball started rolling immediately and hasn't stopped since. Maybe things could improve now that Netflix is a thing, but there's a reason why during all these decades American animation has barely set foot outside the same old children's ghetto. Conversely there was no Netflix or late night anime or OVAs in 1960s and 1970s Japan.

LDaR apparently plays into the old dichotomy between children's and adult animation by being super edgy. That's been done before, and it shows an immature understanding of what adult animation is.

>another Eva in Japan
It already came out and was called Kemono Friends. Something that permanently alters the entire industry like Eva did is probably not coming again, at least I don't see how.

CNs tatget audience isnt preschoolers, yet thats what they want. It only made back its budget because it was so dirt cheap to make, even then thats fucking poor for an animated film and on top of that ratings are at an all time low. And yes, WBB is ridiculously safe, the show is run by a faggot whos too scared to even put good humor in it because hes more concerned at trying to be comfy then actually entertaining. Go fuck yourself, you're nothing but an apologist for the people who keep lowering the bar for cartoons year after year.

>WBB is ridiculously safe
>too scared to put good humor in it
lol

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Execs are definitely the most at fault, but I do also think it's close between them and the showrunners.
Truth is, I wouldn't expect these people to make good content even without restraints. As an example, people talk about Pott's shorts that have a very interesting and unsettling bend to them when compared to Summer Camp Island, but they're also meaningless and a little incoherent.
A lot of faults in SU have to do with the logic the show uses and can be blamed more on Sugar's sheltered, west coast, upper-middle class upbringing than executive meddling.
A good showrunner should recognize the restraints they're under and work within AND around them. A good example is the thread brought up a few days ago that wound up comparing the OK KO gun violence episode with a similar episode from Static Shock.
Hell some adult shows get by fine without leaning on risque behavior and subject matter. The Bob Ross Boondocks ep. works perfectly fine if you take out the cursing and the chase scene. But that's because the visual style, voice acting, and writing allow for a more mature tone. Switch the art style to cal arts and give the cast goofy cartoon voices and suddenly the heart isn't there.
The current situation is so rotten that it can't be just one thing. Showrunners and execs are at fault here, and we can only hope streaming services allow competent people on both sides to start pushing the medium again.

Thats what i meant, julia potts is untalented even without exec meddling, sugars problem is that she lets her underlings walk over her at the expense of the story.

WBB makes Princess Sofia look like King Star King

Showrunners are selling shows to execs. Their competence varies as they plan on a show never ending. They don't make shows like Avatar because that is more intensive for everyone involved and more expensive to animate, this the easy episodic comedy format with a facilitated house style means a lower quality product is produced faster. The CN execs are getting what they pay for.

I'm not saying she's untalented. She can draw and animate. But assuming that she can make interesting content if interference were taken away is presumptuous, as you said.
I think we only need to remember the clusterfuck that was the SCI pilot to come to the conclusion that she really shouldn't be a showrunner. It wasn't a poorly done pilot, in the technical aspect it was actually pretty good. It seems a lot of effort went into it because it shows that in the visial department. But the characters and story were utterly alien and disconnected from the human experience on a fundamental level.
Pott and Sugar are fine at certain things, but they shouldn't be running shows. Compelling characters and narratives require life experiences that I don't think either of them have. They're fine artists, but artistic skill isn't what makes their shows so juvenile. It's their perspectives, and that's something that isn't changed easily.

>CNs tatget audience isnt preschoolers, yet thats what they want.
TTG is currently one of the only network's TV-PG shows.

>Go fuck yourself, you're nothing but an apologist for the people who keep lowering the bar for cartoons year after year.
It's obvious that you want to be upset so you're going to find a reason to be upset.

I thoroughly enjoy watching Xavier: Renegade Angel and the show isn't what I would call good looking. Cal arts is cheap, but if the showrunners cared about quality it wouldn't be the only style they use. Good writing doesn't have much to do with how a show looks either, though they do affect each other as I wrote with the Boondocks.
Nu-tmnt looks different yes, and is animated well, yes, but if their idea is to switch up the leaders then I'm not particularly interested.
As for execs going with what sells, adults will buy home versions of shows that are good enough to merit actually watching again. Cheapest isn't always best, but that doesn't mean shows need to be heinously expensive. The middle ground has merits execs aren't recognizing, but even if they do, I'm not confident in how much things will change.

To add to my post, I don't own any DVDs of recent cartoons. But I have DVDs for Baccano, Ping Pong, and plan on getting Jojo and IBO later. And when you consider how many copies Cowboy Bebop or FLCL have probably sold, I'm pretty sure they did well financially even with the high production cost.

The calarts style is how you pitch something to execs. Assure them their product can made cheaply. Remember the SU pilot? That cheapening of style wasn't Sugar's initial plan.

>As for execs going with what sells, adults will buy home versions of shows that are good enough to merit actually watching again
Right, but to even stand a chance of getting to this point, they need to be on a network that is targeting 6-13 year olds first. That's what's great about netflix.

Few American networks would take a risk on shows like that.

Yeah, no. The reason of why anime is so diverse is because the companies dont own most of the IP's and can't milk them like in the west. Just research about any original franchise owned by a animation studio and you will see how they ruined that works.

>TTG is currently one of the only network's TV-PG shows.
And it sure goes out of its way to not use that rating for its advantage to make better content

They made a movie.

It's diverse because there's no limitations on what can be done with animation, because the audience is more than children + sitcoms, and because it's a big and open industry where anyone can make an anime about anything. Whether a property is owned by an artist or a company is irrelevant when it comes to milking things.

No, ANY work that is milked to death will be a piece of shit when theres nothing more to milk dont matter the demography or constraints of the work.

Many manga have billions of episodes and movies, while many original anime are conservative about making sequels. Or don't get sequels at all, even though they were successful.

And it was just as shit as the show, your point?

Also the movie only got made because certain execs seem intent to push it and not out of actual popular demand.

>f-fun things are fun

*kek

What? Just the most popular manga get more than 100 issues of manga and just the most popular shonen get more than 400, most works had luck if manage to break 60. On the point of anime orriginals just see the old seasons in myanimelist, almost everyone of the original IP's had a sequel, spin-off or movie and most of them underperformed killing it's future.

Obviously unpopular manga and novels don't get tons of volumes. The point is that whether or not a series is "milked" doesn't depend on whether it's owned by an artist or a company. Making a sequel and having it underperform has nothing to do with milking a series.

That's the main diference. Western companies deal with it's underperforning IP's because there's nothing to replace it. Japanese companies can't take that burden and let them die or use them like two decades later, meanwhile there work on other IP's being original ones or adaptatoons of original works.

*popular works

Underperforming IPs are dumped all the time in the US, like TV shows that get cancelled after or during one season. There's nothing preventing American companies from making new IPs as much as Japan does.

Yep, TV live action shows that are produced to become the next Friends or CSI, the philosophy is the same make a product that can be milked for years if not decades.

And that's why AT had such a shitty ending: Writing like you're never ending, aimlessly stacking up arcs with no proper ending planned is one of the reasons why western cartoons can't be like anime.

It's been a general problem with US TV, but few cartoons even try to have any ovearching story.

huh, that's pretty true, most american cartoons are pretty much made to go on forever because that's how TV works, tho that does mean that streaming services are a potential cure to that mentality

Voltron says otherwise and the streaming wars are going to make self-contained narrative less likely to be made

Meh that show loved koreans more if anything they made liking japanese cringy

Those are overrated crap praised by people who never read or watch them and misinterpret their meaning

Evangelion wasn't just some 2deep4u story, it was one of the biggest hits of all time and changed the industry.

capeshit is far overshilled and comics needs to branch out as a medium more. Imagine if most books or movies (talking 70%-80%) of them were superheros stories it would be hard to earn those mediums respect outside of people who like superman and shit.

We need comics that are also made for regular folks to enjoy like our parents and shit. Shakespeare wrote for commoners after all. Those sorts of comics exist I guess but they get little to no exposure.

DC and Marvel need to be like Gundam and Pretty cure they dominate a genre but not represent the entire medium

To normies they do or might as well. Its about what people get exposed to. When you think about "comic con" your pretty much thinking of superheros exclusively for example and as the biggest convention of the year for the medium that is a bit strange don't you think?

The only non capeshit normies would see would be like newspaper strips or meme comics on facebook really. Thats probably what 90% of people consume comics wise.

Get a load of this butthurt pol-tard. We Bare Bears is one of the funniest shows on CN in recent years. Stay mad and stroke it to your Cheeto overlord some more.

Yeah it's easy to overrate, but it's important to otaku culture. It hit all the right marks and almost kicked off the waifu wars, turning fanserice into commentary and gave us Rei.

How is this show Y7? TTG is PG and I haven't seen them getting overtly sexual beyond the standard crushing on people jokes.

What little i've seen on ttg, they actually do sexual shit, see lady legasus, i'd have too watch the full thing but i've seen stuffing and other fetish material.

Of course it's the most viewed cartoon it's literally the only thing they show when kids are watching cartoons.

What part of Turner fucking broadcast numbers for new episodes doesn't your dumb ass understand?

The part where they actually aired or advertised any of their other shows.

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... and they do that because TTG is the highest rated.

>the week ending in 8/6/17
>know the key for cn schedule archive where bold equals a new release
>why is cn heavily advertising a upcoming special of one of there most successful properties

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>But the characters and story were utterly alien and disconnected from the human experience on a fundamental level.
>Compelling characters and narratives require life experiences that I don't think either of them have.
That's kinda why I'm hesitant to make anything with my own characters.
I don't have enough life experience (or consume enough media) to give them any depth beyond a couple of traits I picked off of TV or something.
If the characters are shit nobody's gonna want to follow them.

That's why people go to tv tropes, unfortunately.