How did this pretentious shit win any awards?

What is this? A bait thread for ants?

Because it's still better than the massive sea of crap that is the average cape-comic, and plays around with the formula enough to at least stand out from the small pack of decent to good cape-comics.

It's pretty pretentious to criticize stylistic choices of the storytelling just to reach the conclusion that it should be simpler because you don't personally like them.

With the sheer volume of dialogue thrown at me you'd think King could get his point across. Give me some foreshadowing, give me a hint of his unease. Give me something with all those words words words instead of filling up half your panels with banality so you can keep the other half clear to what? Bounce me around to Darkseid's un-signed beat poetry? I've seen better authors and better artists do more with less and more with more.
At no point did I ever stop to ponder the meaning, enjoy the subtlety or revel in the excess. I just slogged through two steps forward and one step back all the way to the end.

Me and other people appreciate it for reasons you don't. For what I value in a story King and Gerards did an excellent job. Let's just agree to disagree.

King is of the same mind that bendis is. They don't believe that comics are a visual meduim, they believe the art is secondary to their writing, that the art is only there to highlight there story telling when its supposed to be the other way around. The storytelling is suuposed to highlight the art. This is evident by how much of there writing takes up space on every panel. You aren't supposed to tell, you're supposed to show.

Bullshit. You can see from issue 1 of Mister Miracle that the art is doing most of the work in establishing tone. Scott is even being characterized through the way the panels are composed.

What are you on about? Have you actually read the comic in question?

>King is the same as bendis

This meme never stops being stupid.

>give me a hint of his unease.
The comic opens with Scott opening his veins. The guy struggles during the whole thing. His moments of joy are always followed by darker times. And Scott is clearly having a hard time.
What kind of a hint do you want?

How is Mister Miracle not straightforward or linear? And inefficient means filler which leads to decompression. This story could've efficiently been told in 6 issues without for example wasting 2 whole pages/18 panels showing a box falling from the sky to the ground.

They both have a problem with 'signature' dialogue. Their style is different (if you want to call whatever Bendis does a style) but both hurt characterization and pacing by adhering to a unique approach to script.

>They don't believe that comics are a visual meduim, they believe the art is secondary to their writing,
This is kind of most writers of cape comics. Most page are just people talking. Nobody read cape for the action because it's always background noise for dialogue. And none dialogue exposition are even more uncommon than clear action.

Ironically, Mr. Miracle builds a lot of its atmosphere through its art. You could have chosen almost any other cape comics and you chose the wrong one.

Dcfags are angry he made kino at Marvel with Vision and are trying to pretend this crap is anywhere near that level. Dcfags in general are very insecure which is why you see a lot of retards saying Immortal Hulk isn't good, they can't stand the fact that Marvel still makes kino even if half their line is full of shit and events, DC on the other hand is just shit and reboots.

>King
>big words
BAT
CAT
BAT
CAT

BAT
CAT

>but both hurt characterization and pacing by adhering to a unique approach to script.

I don't really agree that King's style hurts pacing. Or characterization. If anything King has a very conscious approach to how he wants to pace things. He might not always write characters exactly as they're represented elsewhere due to what he's going for in the story, which I see as he prerogative but I can I see it make some people grind their teeth, but Bendis just ignores shit, even what he himself has written, and makes everyone sound the same.

In the case of MM the appeal is the journey itself, not reaching the conclusion. Twelve issues reflecting different aspects of Scott's life makes it as a more wholesome story than cutting it in half.

>How is Mister Miracle not straightforward or linear?
Jumps in time and plotwise a lot of issues don't lead straight into the next.

>And inefficient means filler which leads to decompression. This story could've efficiently been told in 6 issues without for example wasting 2 whole pages/18 panels showing a box falling from the sky to the ground.
Decompression. Is. Not. Bad. It's not good either. It's just a description of how pace is controlled. Fast and efficient isn't necessarily the best way to tell a story and would not have been in this case because the slow pacing lent itself to the atmosphere it was trying to build.

>and makes everyone sound the same.
Applies to King. Every speech bubble is same sounding as fuck with the same tone. If you blank out the characters you wouldn't know who's saying what.

>if you didn't like it you didn't get it
I got it, the repetition was definitely done purposely and the themes being expressed weren't particularly opaque but he hits a lot of nails with the same three hammers over and over and over.
Here's some dialogue about mundane shit while I crap lasers
>BAM
Here's six empty panels making a mosaic of how unhappy scot is
>BAM
Here's a shot of family life punctuated with 'Darkseid Is'
>BAM
over and over and over. Maybe masochistic masturbation about the inevitability of life irreparably damaging one's psyche is just 2 deep 4 me. Maybe I'm just too fucking stupid to see the post-nihilism message about finding happiness in the face of entropy. Or maybe king's a pretentious hack.

If you really feel that way, although I don't see how this "journey" was the point since it's about making the best out of your situation instead of escaping towards something new in the hope that will be better. This is the exact opposite of a "journey si more important than the end" type of story and you still haven't' addressed how showing 2 pages/18 panels of a crate falling from the sky isn't filler. Or are you trying to say it's art?
Also
>How is Mister Miracle not straightforward or linear?

>Here's some dialogue about mundane shit while I crap lasers

Part of the appeal of New Gods is the contrast between the divine sci-fi elements and mundane ground level personal stuff.

Gerards art is so bad

>story has themes it wants to get across and uses several distinct methods to deliver it
>this is somehow bad

Are you trying to imply a timeskip is not a straightforward plot device? Mister Miracle does not jump forward and backward through time, it just jump ahead after every issue, something common in cape comics.

No.

It's an entirely valid way to make an otherwise dull talking heads scene be more visually interesting with the art.

Fine it's linear. I do not care. The definition of linearity was never the point of my post. Call it what you want. I don't care.

What?

>Why does storytelling have to be linear, straightforward and efficient?
You start out by asking this. It was definitely your point but now when you got caught with your pants down you're backtracking. You thought you were going to look real smart when you were criticizing the guy because he can't understand something with a non linear plot.

Tom King is pure kino in human form.

Attached: Tom Kino King.jpg (2004x1998, 1.08M)

I was used that as a starting point as quick way to contrast the guys ideas of MM's storytelling I didn't think some pedant would show up arguing semantics.
My ACTUAL point was the stylistic choices in Mister Miracle were used well and effectively told the story the particular why it set out to.

I'm pretty sure the ones shitting on Immortal Hulk are just butthurt morrisonfags because everyone agrees it's better than his Green lantern. Before he started work on it everyone agreed Immortal Hulk was a modern masterpiece and Yea Forums was in agreement that Ewing was one of the best writers in the business save for that one troll that always just posted his retard alert picture.

>Yea Forums - comics, cartoons & contrarians

How is it semantics you fucking retard? You literally built your argument on the stupid comics being too deep for that guy because he can't into unconventional storytelling, implying he can only enjoy straightforward and linear storylines. Now you're backtracking like a massive fucking faggot not realizing that you're destroying your own fucking initial argument with this clown shit.

Well, I definitely didn't call him dumb but I'm sorry if I was unclear before.

>I'm pretty sure the ones shitting on Immortal Hulk are just butthurt morrisonfags because everyone agrees it's better than his Green lantern

Pretty sure most of the bitching comes from Hulk now being a slow paced horror comic and the deliberate right wing outrage baiting.

Morrisonfags should just be gassed.

While GL started slow I'd argue the last three issues have easily elevated it into being the best ongoing book on the market.

It's not even top 5 at DC much less the market. Hulk is far better and morrisonfags can't stand that fact.

Can't believe you're defending shit writing for the sake of being contrarian, but it is 2019.

How am I a contrarian you shit?

What's your top 5 DC? I got (in no particular order)
>Deathstroke
>WonderTwins
>GL
You know what? GL already made top three for me, what do you got?

>"Darkseid Is"? What's that supposed to mean.
>If he's reading Mr. Miracle, I know what Darkseid Is -- bored!
>OHOHOHOHOHO!

Attached: statler and waldorf.jpg (1024x768, 86K)

I felt like slitting my wrists while reading it. King is one note

Surely you can justify that claim with actual arguments?

Super Sons, Shazam, Hawkman, Wonder Twins, Young Justice. Morrison sucks.

This is why comics aren't seen as a serious medium. Scripting, storytelling and visuals have no value at all. Go and read your shitty Scott Snyder word vomit or Aaron lolsrumb splash pages with no attention given to the storytelling or execution. Most works of other mediums would've been seen as pretentious by comic fans.

Wonder Twins is the only readable book in there. The rest are completely shit. No wonder you like Immortal Cuck. Ewing is just Marvel's Geoff Johns.

What a nothing post. Comics aren't seen as a serious medium because hacks like King are considered geniuses by idiots such as yourself.

Nice shit taste, retard
>Immortal Cuck
You are pathetic

No, it's because fans want "fun" comics. It's the only place where anything outside of two superpowered beings beating the shit would be seen as pretentious in favor of Snyder, Ewing and Johns.

Sorry, dumbass, but Tomasi, Bendis, Johns and Ewing are some of the worst writers to have ever written for Marvel and DC.

because it breaks toxic masculine and sexist female role models or some other sjw buzzword.
I feel like all you have to do to get a writing award these days is have a black female character be a scientist clapping back against the white male patriarchy, write some story about a female marie sue beating up 500 white men at once or feature emasculated white guy realizing how much better women are while he decided to stay at home an race her boyfriends son

King is the same, he also writes le fun comix xD like Double Date.

Bendis is shit but Tomasi and Cereal Lord are great and Ewing is probably the best writer right now. Gain taste, take a shower, get a clue.

Pick up a good comic sometimes. Reddit has rotten your mind. I bet you think MCU is watchable too. Both cereal fraud and Tomasi combined have less good books than Bendis. This is how shit they are.

Do you feel like a big boy? Do you think being contrarian makes you interesting?

Do you feel better after that pointless diatribe, baby?

> multiple time skips are pretentious

hahaha oh wow

>user mindlessly proves right

Shit taste

Are you okay?

It's pretentious because it thinks it has something to say, but it doesn't. It's just a 12 issue slog.

What are you asking for?

That's a statement, not a fact.

Hating Johns and MCU on Yea Forums is contrarian now?

Yes.

This is not reddit, faggot. You need to go back.

>hating something popular is contrarian
Literally the definition dumbass

>I don't really agree that King's style hurts pacing. Or characterization
Vision, Kyle Rayner, Scott Free, Batman. They all behave and talk the same way. Oh, let me add Booster Gold and Wally West.

Popular = Pandering to least common denominator. Johns is only liked by kids with double digit IQs who find explosions and epic splash pages cool.

>They all behave and talk the same way.
No they don't.

Yes, they do.

I can just discard your opinion now because you don't have intelligence to prove your point.

Oh look the Ant-Johns sperg is here. Usually he’s in the Shazam threads

>There's only one person who hates Johns on this entire board
>Admitting to visiting "Shazam" threads
How to out yourself as a newfag from Rebland.

Shut up dumb contrarian.

Get out of Yea Forums Didio, your not welcome here.

No but there is one particular autist who foams at the mouth every time his name is uttered

The comic ends where it began, and most of the issues is just a random bunch of characters telling Scott the same thing but in different ways. The only thing that really advanced the story a bit was the war because it served to showcase the fact that reality was a fake, but even that it's just something that gives the illusion that the plot is advancing when it really isn't. Because the reader is already beat on the head since the beginning that something funky was going on.

Basically you could have done this as a one-shot, but it was stretched to 12 issues full of talking heads.

>Johnstard can't form a coherent sentence why reddit's favorite writer is good.

so is scottdead

pls explain ending to a brainlet

Cereal Lord is /ourguy/ tourist.

>what is atmosphere
Writing is not about getting to point A to point B in the quickest way possible.

>what is atmosphere
Feel free to answer yourself.

It's a rhetorical question user.

Still, feel free to elaborate.

In that 80s/90s sense of thw word where it means "exceptional", "good" and "above-average"? If xes, then I agree. Good artists are the only thing about King's writing that I look forward to. Except Mikel Janin. Fuck that tracer.

Yea Forums loved this half a year ago

Yea Forums never loved it. Half of the storytime threads where people shitting on it and the other half were idiots saying it's kino and if you don't like it you just don't get it but I won't elaborate on why it's good.

Bullshit

Decompression isn't bad user, a benefit of a slower paced book is a more immersive setting where story beats can last longer and make a stronger impression on the reader.

Too bad this comic didn't manage that.

It's good because of the layered character study of in feelings of hopelessness. Anti-life is depression so how does the greatest escape artist escape anti-life?

Well that's where you're flatout wrong.

Yea Forums always had shit taste. They voted forever evil and Spider island for GN of the year. If your tastes are the opposite of Yea Forums, consider yourself to have good taste.

Shut the fuck up with your hivemind bullshit. Yea Forums is not a person with a single opinion.

>the layered character study of in feelings of hopelessness
Feel free to elaborate.

>It's good because of the layered character
KEK. What's the difference between Scott and every other King's protagonist? Hell, Batman is currently the same as Mister Miracle, but in reverse with everyone telling him to give up on being Batman and he feeling he can't because reasons.

The comic felt like a wet fart.

Scott is an escape artist but how do you escape Anti-life aka Depression?
You can try suicide or you can try throwing yourself into a fight or you can try domestic bliss or even try the impossible and Kill God. You can even have a sense of cosmic awareness where you realized this life is just one of many and there are simultaneously a world where you're trapped in anti-life aka depressed.
But Scott chooses to accept it and that's a form of escape too.

You do know that the comic was about this, right? The whole comic is about Darkseid building a comfy prison for Mister Miracle that he chose in the end to not escape from.

>What's the difference between Scott and every other King's protagonist?
The answer will require a lot of nuance that will basically go over your head.
Kyle is an idealist, Vision is tragic, Batman is indomitable and Scott is coping.

>But Scott chooses to accept it and that's a form of escape too.
It's only a prison if you let it be.

No, they're all copying and they're idealistic in some form, which is what makes them tragic, because their idealism is often a measure of cope.

The comic is about Scott learning to become a normie.

That's reaching. Scott just gave up on life and decided to live in a made up fantasy. Anti Life is supposed to be a horrible life and then you die and it gets worse over and over again. Scott was strong enough to manipulate his horrible life into a good and comfy one but he's still depressed and yet he'll prefer staying depressed in his made up world that he can manipulate over being depressed in the real world.
Scott doesnt learn how to live with depression, he let's the depression win and kills himself. And I guess that's a form of escape too.

The whole comic is about Tom King self-inserting into Mister Miracle and telling himself it is okay to live a normal life with a wife and kid, instead of being out there making his parents and community proud by doing his patriotic duty or anything else that could make his life feel important.

That's it. the rest are just readers grasping at straws.

Hmmm

Pretty much all of Tom King's comics have been about him self-inserting hard and writing about his neurosis. That's why his protagonists all feel the same despite being different character with distinct established personalities.

Take Omega Man. That's pretty much him self-inserting into Kyle and telling about his view on the Middle East conflict. How he felt that what he thought was something that was to improve those people's lives ended up being nothing but a generational conflict with no end in sight where everyone is out for their own interests. Including the US of A that placed him there.

Or his Batman run where is him telling about how he couldn't feel any sort of fulfillment in what he did, even if he felt strongly about doing it because that's where he found any shred of purpose in life, and how eventually he left himself open to the possibility of a married life, but was still caught between people pushing or to give up on his duty and marry, or focus on his life of duty, with his own girlfriend/wife sort of being resigned to the idea of aways sharing him with his duty.
That's why Batman became a cutter and a suicidal enthusiast because that's why King himself enlisted himself in the army. He thought about killing himself for not being popular with the cool kids and girls, but then thought better and decided to dedicate his life to making the world a better place by enlisting. He just never managed to find any happiness in it.

Honestly, i'm tired of reading about King's shitty life. He's running pretty thin of ways to complain about his life as well.

What we got wasn't horrible, but I just wanted a fun Mister Miracle story with a thicc Barda. Why can't we have simple stories anymore?

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Thankfully Doomsday clock did something right and showed Scott out of the omega sanction and back with the real version of his wife. So lets just assume Barda came along and busted Scott out of the Omega sanction and slapped a good sense of reality into him.

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