Is it wrong that i like old marvel and dc comics from the 60s, 70s and early 80s way more than current comics?

No. I'd even go so far as to say it's right.

What is there to like about current comics?

No ,I agree with you 100%

I do and im 23, I even like the older style art and inking because it actually popped out and drew me in. Hell even the shit story of those time(Like Speedball, which I actually like) is far better than a lot of the comics we get now from the big 2. Im currently reading the original Daredevil run and that shit is amazing.

Also RIP Mike you were the best Murdock...

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Wasn't that the one where Spidey was down with the flu and had do use some sort of power enhancing thing made by Dr. Octopus to even be able to stand up, much less fight Superman?

We all do OP .....WE ALL DO!

It'd be weirder if you didn't. They were fun back then, instead of focusing on virtue signalling and shit.

>that time Matt pretended to be his own brother (who doesn't exist) so he could hide his secret identity as Daredevil
This would never fly today.

i like marvel comics in the 80s and 90s and DC after crisis on infinite earths/dark knight and watchmen-present. mainly because DC writes superheroes better than marvel

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It wouldn't fly today because it's cheesy and has fun with the maskef superhero concept. But superheroes aren't fun. They are serious dramatic dramas that dramatize the deep aspects of life behind the masks we all wear.

>Man-Thing
>Conan the Barbarian
>Savage Sword of Conan
>Shang-Chi Master of Kung Fu
>Tomb of Dracula
>Ghost Rider
>Warlock
Marvel had some pretty damn solid stuff back in the 70's. And DC had Hard Travelling Heroes and the Ra's Al-Ghul stuff coming out then.
Bronze Age was the best age, discuss.

No,you like a good era.

Yeah while im not one of those guys who thinks comics are for children, I don't care for comics that take themselves too seriously,

That's just not being a retard.

Absolutely, both companies were really on a roll there. Art was superb (rich but still “classical” in a comic sense), writing was on point (nuanced but still fun), continuity was maintained but not overwhelming...

They had everything going right and they were still experimenting with horror, Kung-fu, sci-fi, etc.

All this despite going through a series of financial hardships, and weakening printing processes.

You liked comics when they were better? How odd.

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>Hard Travelling Heroes
Yeah, I really like that issue that had mediocre writing and Ollie preaching Hal's ear off the entire time.

Any normal person would agree that 60s, 70s, and 80s were the peak decades for Marvel (DC peaked in the 80s and 90s). Even 2000s was better for both companies compared to the 2010s. Fuck, even 90s Marvel was better than current comics, and 90s Marvel SUCKED.

Superman and Spider-man seem to exist in the same world, weirdly enough.

Nope, current comic books are absolute crap.

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You know what i've realized , whatever happened to training/workout scenes in modern comics, the old ones(at least Marvel) used to be full of them, to let you know that your hero actually has to put in work to get the results the need. Those scenes never fail to get me pumped for a workout.

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Nah, I actually like a lot of modern stuff being put out by both Marvel and DC and I still think that comics peaked in the 80s-early 90s

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no brah I think something is wrong with you if are liking the current shit Marvel is shitting out

Spidey's doing it wrong, he has to yell like Bruce Lee for it to have any effect.

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Marvel has actually done a few decent comics lately. Spider-man for example as at the best it's been in at least 2 decades.

>old good new bad

wow what a brave statement.

I love 60's to 80's DC & Marvel comics

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It's the same across all media, stop being a faggot. You won't hear the same being said about New Japan Pro Wrestling for example and only assmad fags shouted that gayness during the PS2 era.

Only normies think the contrary

Not funny

not sure what's your point there but i'll call you a faggot nonetheless, faggot.

Part of it is that you only see the best of the old stuff, but the good and the bad of the new.

80s are peak comics.
The moment comics were allowed to be more mathre but still had the good cheesiness of the past and didn't go full edge.

Oraoraoraoraoraoraoraoraoraora.....
ORAAA!

Old comics are literal "words words words" over-narrated messes with bad dialogue filled with exposition and barely supplementary art.

Nobody likes current Marvel or DC.

wow what a complex and well researched argument

>Found the pleb

Meh. Some are good but some are terrible. I like current Marvel. DC not so much

Not to me. Some maybe

Define the term "normal". Because I see no normal people here. And to say you like 90's Marvel shows how retarded your mind is

I like current Marvel

>normie

Normalfag

That only makes you sound illiterate

>And to say you like 90's Marvel
He didn't say he liked it, just that it's better than current Marvel even though it sucked

It's more than right, OP. It's pro natura.

What a waste of Colan.

>I like current Marvel

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Don't care. My opinion will not change to satisfy you faggotry

Honestly, yes. Most 60s and early 70s are incredibly dated. I can only read so many recaps and reminders of the character's values before I get tired. I can't really say marvel comics are enjoyable until Starlin and Claremont come around. Though i never read Spiderman so may be right.

At least explain what you like about that mess instead of just being pissy. Who knows, maybe there are some unnoticed gems out there that you can tell us about?

>I can only read so many recaps and reminders of the character's values before I get tired.
I got used to it after a while, doesn't really bother me now. I understand that was done to make each issue accessible for new readers

>not filtering tripfags

Are new comics not this

No, in fact, it's the right way to be, my friend. I didn't even live in those decades and yet I like those comics much more.

1986-2006 was the best era for DC.

Well is he a ghost or not?

Fag.

this is actually true.

Its still bstter than the modern trend of "decompression", where nothing happens for 24 pages.

Who?

Enjoyable older comics are not limited to Spider-Man, I just grabbed a random image I made a while back.

Silver and Bronze Age comics are a bit on the wordy side but they were bombastic and fun. Plus, you were almost always guaranteed that something would happen in any given issue. Modern comics are infuriating because there is a fair chance that literally nothing will happen, or that the plot would move at such an incremental pace that you’d barely notice any progression. You could argue that a single issue in the 70’s was too frenetic but modern comics take 8 to 12 issues to tell a bare bones story. Modern comics are tailored for trades down the road and, thus, are in no hurry to tell you anything. Also...Bendis makes Stan Lee look like a minimalist writer.

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>80s are peak comics.
>The moment comics were allowed to be more mathre but still had the good cheesiness of the past and didn't go full edge.
This

Bump

#
I agree with everything you said, specially on the art, although i prefer the old scans look over the coloring of the reprints

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You got that right, ruins the mood of the originals

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This is literally just a DAE Yea Forums circlejerk post

You can blame old manga for that

are you ready for the ultimate redpill

character development and progression is antithetical to the health of capeshit and is one of the root causes for the degradation of story quality

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Explain? I assume it's rooted in the long-form.. format and such. That said, I think it worked to a point, but they didn't count on the characters lasting long enough to appeal to multiple generations

Well in this case the trade is a straight up recolor

I spent a good while looking into the process here months ago. The reprints use the original colour guides if possible for accuracy. The scan from the old comic's *heavily* yellowed, so the colours are more muted than they would have been back in the 60s. Minus the lack of dot matrix, till it was phased out, the colours are accurate, just bolder because of a few factors.
I like the reprints quite a lot personally.

By the 80s they should have went 'it is time to stop' because it had been 20 years of heavy cape comics output but that's when the fanboy as writer went into maximum overdrive and the geeks wanted their kids comics to be mature and stuff.

The guy who writes the comic next isnt going to give a shit about what you just did when Peter David took over the Hulk a second time he literally retconned everything that happened after he left. That's what you get with an absolute diva like PAD, but even still any changes they make to the character or to the status quo are going to be put right back pretty much so its ultimately futile and I think all the fanboy writers should have just tried to make cool static stories

heavy continuity is great because it expands the toy box but progression of time and character change is a no no because that then closes doors for what can happen in a story

most modern writers are fat fucks who've never touched a titty

I actually agree with this, i stopped caring about character progression and such, now all i care about is just having a good time

I fucking hate how Marvel recolors their old comics. Its hard to look at. Anyone knows where i can find scans that look like the first one on the left?

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>I like current Marvel

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No.

I'm 27 and my favorite comics are Kirby FF, New Gods, Golden Age Wonder Woman and Superman, Bronze Age Batman, early Claremont X-Men, and anything Byrne did that featured She-Hulk.

I also think Marshall Rogers was a better Batman artist than Neal Adams.

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You like the faded, cheap newsprint look?

Yes, the remastered comics look too garish to me

Middle here's the best overall. The left's good but timeworn. Middle has accurate colours with better production processes. The right's trash though

I’m guessing the middle is the Masterworks reprint, what is the right image from though? A cheap reprint floppy?

I also prefer pre 90s to post 90s. Don't worry about it.

The middle's Masterworks or Epic Collection. The latter and a lot of Masterworks tend to be coloured by Kellustration who in simple terms, do this stuff. I'd recommend looking them up, they have cool blogs and old podcasts on the subject. The right, yeah. Maybe True Believers, Definitive Fantastic Four tpb, one of those. Definitive Silver Surfer replaces a lot of the varied colours from what it reprints with greys and silvers. It triggers my autism. The material in the ECs is accurate but with modern techniques.

I've all but stopped reading current comics.
Been catching up on 70-80s stuff that flew under my radar.

No? That’s entirely subjective, read whatever you enjoy user.

>Karen’s fucking expression
This was the bullshit that drove her to the needle.

>later writers worked Mike into continuity as Matt having a mental breakdown after Elektra's death

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>his shaded glasses stay on through all that
Genuine kek.

It’s a book you fag, you’re supposed to read it.

>in the last run of daredevil Mike got brought back as a living thoughtform and he ran away after Matt told him he was fake.
He’s still out there and nobody is ever going to address this.

Yes, these comics were written for literal autistic children and have characters commenting every single shit they take. They're impossible to take seriously. Daredevil is edgy and brooding yet he fights a guy whose superpower is to wear stilts, wow this is so clever (NOT)

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I always think of when Alan Moore said Golden Age comics were one dimensional, Silver Age comics were two dimensional and Bronze Age comics were three dimensional.

I think that's about accurate. Then post-Bronze Age you have Miller, Moore, Gaiman and the Vertigo guys and they go post-modern which is also wonderful. What just about all art has taught is once you go post-modern there's pretty much no coming back. There are a handful of outliers always (god bless Morrison) but on the whole there's nowhere else to go after post-modernism other than pandering to the niche audience with nostalgia and embracing the past over and over with diminishing returns.

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>They're impossible to take seriously. Daredevil is edgy and brooding
He wasn’t in the 60’s, he was just a zany lawyer who jumped over buildings and crashed cars because he couldn’t see the street signs.

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It wouldn't fly today because it's a soap opera-tier plot twist that requires for characters to have zero brain cells. Also it's not good writing, just like most of early Daredevil. When Lee decided to get rid of Mike, it wasn't for any particular in-story reason, there was no build-up or any in-story reason (the real reason most likely was that even back then, people thought it was retarded, complained in fan mail or stopped buying the book altogether). He literally had Matt decide "ok I'm not gonna be Mike Murdock anymore". I'm posting the page where that idea came up, for the very first time ever, and in the same issue Matt pulled it off a couple of pages later. And then he still dressed up as Daredevil and met Karen and Foggy occasionally, and they thought it was a different guy.

There are some good Silver Age comics, but early Daredevil is hardly one of them. It's clear most of it is just Lee doing one of the two things:
1) blatantly trying to replicate things from ASM (the first annual is about Daredevil fighting a group of his foes that unite against him, hmm where have I seen that before); this also explains all the padded soap opera stuff, where until a certain point Foggy seriously considered Karen as a love interest just because there HAD to be a love triangle, duh
2) just throwing shit on the wall to see what sticks (this is why a lot of early Daredevil stories are random and don't have much direction, he's fighting mobsters in one issue and then he's fighting aliens, and then he's fighting Dr Doom, and then he's fighting Stilt-Man).

I'm not saying you can't have fun with old Daredevil, but most of the time you'd be laughing at it, not with it.

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Old daredevil is fucking surrealist and that’s why a love it. It’s like a narrative by virtue of a dream, goals change unprompted, everything is weird as shit, nothing stands up to even the slightest amount of critical thought.

It’s 70’s DD that’s downright unreadable.

I knew this cover looked familiar. God damn the DBS manga is shit.

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>I'm not saying you can't have fun with old Daredevil, but most of the time you'd be laughing at it, not with it.
Didn't have that while reading it, i think you're trying too hard to convince people that it sucks

That’s not a trace you homosexual, they’re both entirely unique poses.

I don't remember even mentioning the word trace, you insufferable cuck. He clearly stole the framing, layout, and type of pose
Your god is a hack.

>there HAD to be a love triangle, duh
It's not even the right kind of love triangle. When two guys lust over a girl and a girl doesn't know who to lust over it's a fucking shit triangle. Should've been Matt lusting over Karen, Karen lusting over Foggy, and Foggy lusting over Matt

>Foggy lusting over Matt
Patrician.

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>muh Daredevil was good when Miller came along

You like things? Fuck off you pleb, we’ll have none of that shit here.

Read the rest of the thread you whiny homosexual.

>he doesn’t like things

This.

Daredevil wasn't edgy and brooding at this point

>i cant enjoy things that are not serious 100% of the time
your life must be fun

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Grow a pennis, faggot

Imagine fishing on a dock and then you hear some guy yell “A PAPER PLANE- COMING RIGHT AT ME” and then he falls in the water. What would you even do?

Point and laugh

>Anyone knows where i can find scans that look like the first one on the left?

You might wanna try to look on libgen, almost every issue has multiple versions, see if any is of your liking

Samefag you responded too, I am actually quite liking the Daredevil run as read through it. I honestly don't mind the aspect of comic books being silly because they're entertainment. I mean I think one spider man's earliest villains was an alien that got retconned into an alien. Honestly I think reason why I really like it is due to Matts personality and genuine character interactions. Also while I do agree that the Karen,Foggy, and Matt drama was forced, it seems to be dying down around issue 35 with Foggy being love with that ex convict chick. Also I love how villains randomly or heroes randomly show up to their law firm just get a case or advice, that shits always hilarious. Except for when Spiderman wanted to be a little bitch and call out DD at his civilian workplace....

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>Except for when Spiderman wanted to be a little bitch and call out DD at his civilian workplace....
That’s the funniest one, especially when you consider that Matt would need to get either another person or a computerized reader to read the damn thing out loud. Comedy gold.

Also readcomicsonline has old prints for a lot of scans

READING HURT BRAIN
ME WANT SHINY PICTURE BOOK

>implying he could focus on the plot of a textless picture book

Not at all

Also some 90’s comics are good. Look at Legends of the Dark Knight and Vertigo and Epic imprint titles

90's marvel was better than marvel today, operation galactic storm shits on every marvel event from the 2000's besides annihilation. Marvel has one good book right now and that's immortal hulk. Yeah the art was all over the place but I'd still take it over some of the art being put out now.

Is this the comic equivalent of:

You say Justin Bieber-I say ACDC

You say Miley Cyrus-I say Led Zepplin

You say T-Pain-I say Slipknot

You say Flowers-I say?? Metallica

You say Pink-I say Iron Maiden

You? say Hip Hop-i say? shut the ---- up

You say Pop-I scream Heavy Metal!!

You say? hanah montana-i ------- punch you in the face

92% of teenagers have turned to Hip Hop and Pop.If you are part of the 8% that still listen to real music,copy? and paste this message to another 5? videos. DON'T? LET? THE? SPIRIT OF ROCK DIE

I’m glad Immortal Hulk is getting the attention it deserves

who's the other signature besides Stan's?

Who cares?

Ignoring that autist, I worked it out. The placement made me think it's one Marvel guy (Stan) and one DC guy. Going by Wiki, it *should* be Carmine Infantino, who was the directoral editor for DC at the time and did the cover.
It seems to say his name if you look closely but the signature isn't a match for any of the ones I found online. I'm thinking whoever owned the OP pic got it signed by each of them separately

The simple answer is Infantino probably signed it a good few years later than the original release.

>DC guy
Like I said, who cares?

You’d best believe it is. Yea Forums is crawling with children.

Non-autists, friendo. It's possible to appreciate the good from both companies

Born in 1994. 70's, 80's and even 90's comics are way better than today's. Back when heroes actually were heroes and SJW narratives didn't dominate the storyline. I really dislike contemporary X-books.

Fags

>implying

>shipping matt murdercock with anyone

.

What's your opinion on black and white reprints (ie Marvel Essential line)?

It's best with artists whose work looks great in black-and-white, like Byrne when he was on X-Men.

I prefer color but back in the day they gave me really good value for some great classic comics

Making black and white reprints of color comics should be considered a crime against humanity

My rule is you always want something in its original form. Savage Sword of Conan and Bone, ? I expect that to be in black and white, for example. But color should be color.

I'm the same for music. Originally mixed in mono? Listen to it in mono. Basically everything before '69-'70ish I prefer in mono.

I have sat and read Avengers vol. 1 to current day. I stopped around Civil War II.
Many memorable issues and runs. Late 70's early 80's complete with Infinity Gauntlet build up on late 80's/early 90's was peak marvel for me.
Galactic Marvel shit was pretty good up until Bendis got aware of it and by GotG1 is unreadable mess with some bright moments here and there (gotg 3000 as a mention).
Some charactersto me where just way fucking cooler than today. Compare MCU Spider-man to Vol.1 Avengers Spidey. Vol.1 is just a flat out more interesting character.

No, there is something wrong with you if you like the current garbage though

More useful then in the second one where he gets actively told by Superman to stand back. At least in the first one they team up properly.

Nah, going back and re-reading those old comics I think they really peaked in the 80's, some 90's DC comics were good too.

>He’s still out there and nobody is ever going to address this.
Unless Ewing writes Daredevil or some hack writer turns Mike into a villain.

The 90s started out good until the moment they went full retard with the crossovers

Two years younger than you, but yeah there are people who keep saying "COMICS WERE ALWAYS POLITICAL", but even then it wasn't like it is now where every single thing is either about pushing a narrative or furthering an agenda, to the point that they ruin an established characters identity. Another thing you bring up that I agree with is that modern heroes don't act like heroes, heroes are supposed represent the best of what humanity can achieve but nowadays they are more so just regular schmucks who have powers that they don't respect. I can accept older comics having sillier plots because at least in story these were taken with actual gravity, nowadays its just sarcastic, millennial humor where nothing has gravity, even within the story themselves.

Im still reading through DD, and WTF nobody told me he had villain as Kino as the Jester,

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Is it bad that I prefer comics and pulps from the '30s and '40s than comics from the '60s, '70s, and early '80s?

Daredevil has a ton of underrated villains, had he enjoyed a 90’s nostalgia renaissance like The Flash his rogues might be as fondly appreciated as well.

Was always partial to Death’s Head myself, but The Jester was indeed great.

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Nope, they're kino too

To simplify things, most people just don't believe in sincerity anymore. Everything has to be sarcastic, satirical, or commentary.

Didn't you know? According to "experts", anything Pre-Frank Miller doesn't count

youtu.be/dNQs_Bef_V8

I-fucking-magine being such a pleb that you DONT like the faded newsprint with slightly misprinted colorization look.

Its absolute kino. Unironically.

Epitome of a good entertainment

That’s quite sad really

Run for my life if it comes near me

70s and 80s were, INARGUABLY, the peak of Marvel and DC.

Let's not pretend this run is worth reading for anything other than Gene Colan's magnificent artwork. Same thing with Tomb of Dracula

>other people can't possibly get any enjoyment out of this, they've got to be pretending!

I dunno its pretty kino to me, but yeah the art is also amazing

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This

When people say "comics were always political", they're intentionally overlooking the fact that the only politics in modern big two comics are SJW bullshit that nobody but SJWs even agree with. It's not that they have a message, its that they all have the same message that nobody likes.

>Implying that's a bad thing

Based Post

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I haven't read Marvel since a few years after Civil War ended. I'd read the first few issues of a new run occasionally but most of it seemed really shitty. Especially the past few years.

Similar with DC I dropped most of it during New 52. Rebirth had some better stuff but I haven't read any DC in a year or so.

Instead when it comes to cape comics I've been reading stuff starting from the 60s and working my way into the 70s and 80s. It's been way more enjoyable.

Spot on. Millennials are fucking cancer

I care

old dr strange stuff is based

Toyotaro is a hack

When comics were fun and creative

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>when comics were fun and creative
>it’s all capeshit
This website is a nightmare.

Do you think he made that pic himself, you retard? You want him to edit in Nexus and Cerebus to get cred?

You should read the arc, or any comic where Stan Lee actually did the creative heavy lifting, because it was shit. It's funny in concept as a whole but issue to issue it is just beyond retarded.

I did, still had fun while reading it, problem?

You’re so cool, it’s a shame you’re forced to socialize with us plebs right? Some day we will see the light, please lead the way.

The color idea isn't bad, but I don't like the idea of physically brittle pages

No because those comics were objectively better. The amount of storyline they manage to do in 1 issue back then was equivalent to what you find in an entire trade today.

He helped Supes take down the red sun powered bantu, and soloed Ock and Lex while Superman was stopping a giant tidal wave.

>More useful then in the second one where he gets actively told by Superman to stand back.

In the second one, Spidey pulled the kryptonite dust off of Superman, without which Supes would be lying KO'd and then eaten by the parasite.

Then spidey defused a nuclear fusion reactor from going critical.

The only time Spidey is useless in the 2nd crossover is when they are fighting the Hulk, and that's pretty normal. In fact I'd say Spidey was MORE useful in the 2nd crossover than in the first.

>second row, fifth image

Goddamn, I love the original She-Hulk run. It's so funky.

I feel like Byrne's later rendition of her overshadows Vosburg's and that makes me a little sad.

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Man, every single one of those covers make me want to read each issue just by looking at them

You must be so much fun at parties

Why can't we have this back?

Is it wrong that I think Dark Reign was one of the most interesting times for Marvel Comics?

Thunderbolts and Dark Avengers were a lot of fun especially with Norman getting steadily more and more unhinged.

Siege was a shit fest though, sadly.

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I supose this is right up your alley

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I love the Bendis era (Disassembled thru AvX) and I'm not afraid to say it. Peak popcorn comics

Wouldn't it be cool to have a separate board for old comics (from the golden age up to 1999) sort of like /vr/ for old games?

Didn't Colan at one point say Daredevil was one of his favorites titles that he worked on?

>Wouldn't it be cool to have a separate board for comics
fixed

No. Everyone with a brain is like that. Some modern DC is alright. Haven't bought a Marvel comic in 10 years.

Busiek-Pérez Avengers

Leave.

I didn't like it

That doesn't stop it from being true. And it doesn't stop the comparison in your example from being true either.
You're just the fag who wants to call out contrarian without realizing you're the most contrarian faggot of all

>I LIKE THIS SHIT BECAUSE YOU DON'T

I figured.

I think this is the best assessment I've seen lately. Too many people make it a "Comics shouldn't be political" or "Comics were always political" argument which is reductionist nonsense, and it just ignores that there were a bunch of comics in the 2010's that were so fucking awful that even if you omitted the politics from them, they'd still be shitty comics.

Bump

Thanks friend. My point wasn’t superhero comics were the only good thing, it was simply that superhero comics then were better than superhero comics now...that seems to be the point of the entire thread by the way. Was just using covers as shorthand to illustrate the appeal of the era(s).

I have no interest in flexing my 70’s alternative comic scene on an anonymous Laotian etch-a-sketch board. I’m just focusing on superheroes for now, but I will say that Independent comics then were better than independent comics now as well...maybe you’d like to start another thread for that topic?

So, again, superhero comics in the 60’s / 70’s / 80’s (and earlier) were fun. They were vibrant and exciting, offering a ton of variety even within the confines of the “capeshit” genre.

You had aliens, voodoo priests, science experiments gone awry, time-lost adventurers, werewolves and psychic apes. All wrapped up in colorful and attention grabbing covers. Telling self contained stories that any new fan could pick up and immediately enjoy, while stringing plot threads through dozen of issues that would reward longtime readers. Now you have drab covers with long winded plots that stretch for a dozen issues at a time. If a new fan picks up in the middle of the story...good luck! Forgotten b-characters are slaughtered for nothing more than a mild raising of the stakes.

There’s nothing wrong with mature stories or the hero getting put through the ringer but when it happens 75% of the time it’s overkill. It was a revelation when Daredevil fell from grace, when Miller dragged him through the shit and bile of hell’s kitchen. Then it became the norm, and for decades that was all we got. When they finally gave us a Daredevil run that showed him happy it was a shock and now a whole generation of fans that weren’t even alive before Miller reinvented DD are discovering comics that they were told were crap and finding out that...they were really good.

Hi from Russia!
Old comics were very much stupid and ridiculous. It is enough to remember as the superman blew off Lex Lutor's hair there, the batman wore a zebra suit, ironman was Starck's security guard, all wore pants over trousers, and releases were a little connected among themselves (in fact everyone was separate mini-history).
In the Ultimate-Universe all updated, modernized (yes, it is not always successful, but it was it is all the same necessary). It is a pity that they were covered.

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I even though im 23 year old zoomer, the thing I miss the most is how the dynamic it is and how the art just pops out, new marvel comics either go shitty pastels that look like tumblr art, too muted color palettes, or far too much gradients. That added with lackluster poses just makes alot (not all) of the modern shit unreadable to me.

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>ironman was Starck's security guard
I actually miss this

>and releases were a little connected among themselves (in fact everyone was separate mini-history).
You make it sound like that's a bad thing

>I actually miss this
The bodyguard who appears only when protected already escaped? And so from release in release? I think once more, than there is enough.
>that's a bad thing
When the hero finds just every month to himself the new villain who has no long-term plan and is capable only of ordinary hooliganism or robbery... It very quickly bothers.

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Yeah, that's why characters stopped developing and became trite and stale. Nice excuse. Get off Yea Forums Bendis.

In general i prefer superhores to keep their secret identities than having it been known to the public, it makes up for fun moments.

>because that then closes doors for what can happen in a story
Except it opens up a lot of new story opportunities? Dumbass

I'm so fucking tired of people saying Jester is a rip-off of the Joker. They're completely diferent characters. Jester is not even psychotic, he's just vain

And I agree, his original plan of foiling Daredevil for murder was pretty good, it only failed because Matt just happened to bump onto him in the train and put two and two together

>When the hero finds just every month to himself the new villain who has no long-term plan and is capable only of ordinary hooliganism or robbery... It very quickly bothers.
Dunno, it's fun to me, YMMV

Exactly! Older comics were garish and campy but that was kind of the point. The art popped right off the newsstand, the modern style is so muted that it ends up blending into the background. A wall of modern comics from a distance just looks like a sea of brown and crimson. Most people would dismiss this as a minor point but it really detracts from the appeal of comics.

The Ultimate universe is already dated beyond belief. The writers just loved “topical teenager” speak, so now we have characters yammering on about MP3 players and Freddie Prince Jr. but for some fucking reason new fans keep whining about Spider-Man seeing his classmates shipped off to Vietnam. You can either appreciate the story in the context of the time it was written or you can’t. Why draw the line at the early 2000’s? Just because YOU read it when it was contemporary doesn’t make it any less dated in 2019.

Also, most heroes shouldn’t interact with other titles... 90% of the time. The X-Men are better in their own world, it really strains the “universe” when the mutants are basically Jewish/Black/Gay/Muslims proxies waging a war against a nightmarish hellhole...meanwhile The Avengers are beloved by all. You have Captain America fighting to his last breath to valiantly save the common man...and The Champions are “clapping back” at those callous adults and their adulting.

Not to mention the fact that; if all these heroes are interacting then NYC has a superhero for every 100 feet of real estate, while most countries are lucky to have more than one token hero.

...or, if everybody is just hanging out in the same world, how is Spider-Man battling Carnage in Times Square the same week that the Avengers dropped a Celestial on Manhattan...two weeks after The Juggernaut flattened a few blocks...a month after Doom sent the island of Manhattan to the negative zone? Hyperbole? Yes. The point being, these stories work in a largely unstructured meta-universe.

But then, if you keep ageing and marrying the characters it would come to a point when they should retire for good, which let's face it, the Big Two will never actually do that because they make lots of money out of them

>Not to mention the fact that; if all these heroes are interacting then NYC has a superhero for every 100 feet of real estate, while most countries are lucky to have more than one token hero.
But that wss already a thing in the 60s. Bacj then, every single new villain was treated as "the BIGGEST threat ever" even if it was fucking Stilt-Man, and when they thought they defeated a hero, they often said something along the lines of "now NO ONE will stop me!", even thiugh the shared universe has been a thing since FF #12. So yes, Stilt-Man, even if you defeated Daredevil, you would still have to deal with Fantastic Four, Avengers, Spider-Man, possibly X-Men and Dr Sttrange and probably other characters I don't remember. This ruined whatever stakes Lee was trying to set up.

Here Ultimete Universe just very well worked in this plan. In it everything was interconnected: the glutton says in the X-Men that she goes on affairs and they really let out a limited serie where it on these affairs goes and fights with Hulk. The spiderman faces the six and avengers come to be engaged in them.
In 616 you always you ask the questions "and where avengers?" and prompt to you - "departed on urgent affairs to space" or "do not take the handset".

This forever makes comic books incapable of telling any serious stories, though.

>In 616 you always you ask the questions "and where avengers?" and prompt to you - "departed on urgent affairs to space" or "do not take the handset".

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Most people over 25 do.

Ultimate references were done for a reason too, so what? All of this is still dated.

The one on the right looks better

I think you take them too seriously

I don't know, but I always loved his horror comics. Man, even that Batman vs Solomon Grundy was so scary.

Fun it is good, but it would be advisable to dilute sometimes it with serious subjects and than toboly global, than beating of the robber in a clownish suit during 20 pages.

I'm not making excuses for filler issues, but maybe people actually like it when stories have realistic, not schitzophrenic pacing, where characters have space for human (I don't mean Bendis) interactions. It allows for better use of the medium, where you can potentially end every page on a mini-cliffhanger of sorts, making the reader want to turn to the next page. In 60s comics, especially with the old "5-6 panels a page" style (not every book had actually good and dynamic panel layout like this ), it was harder to do.

Not comicbooks, cape comics that go on forever. Nothing stops anyone from making a creator-owned comic that is self-contained and has an actual end, it can even be about superheroes.
But let's be real both creators are too greedy and fans too immature to allow characters to be retired forever.

Characters also should not leave anywhere. Story about Sherlock Holmes continue to leave still. he dies and revives, but continues to investigate crimes and to battle against Moriarty. The reader has to feel that life of the character moves further. In old comics it was practically not because practically each release it was told about the next same robbery and a fight with the next poor circus actor.

My Russian friend is probably using Google Translate
>the glutton
How the fuck does GT translate "Blob" like that

GT - what is it?
>"Blob"
Пyзыpь

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>Пyзыpь

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Every new comic will be dated one way or the other to newcomers 20 years down the road

>the glutton
I understood))) It it so translated a Wolverine

>Wolverine says in the X-Men that she goes on affairs and they really let out a limited serie where it on these affairs goes and fights with Hulk.
I spoke about it

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Google Translate

No. Current comics are complete shit.

Man they even joke that Marvel was so popular in the day that your Old Man would borrow your capeshit to read. It was a different time.

Thanks to Denny O'Neil and Marv Wolfman who modernized DC and Marvel for good. Not including Frank Miller and John Byrne too of course.

There's knowing the history of comics VS taking whatever Leddit and Tumblr suggest you buy for SJW points

Is normal if I hate current Marvel Comics but love the old pre-ultimates Marvel comics?

i think the use of color in the Bronze Age comics is superior to anything before or after

>90s Marvel sucked
>Xmen
Stop

No

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DURRRR

Search your heart. You know it to be true.

What do you really like about current Marvel? Be really honest. And don't pick characters like Miles or Squirrel Girl either. Be straight up

There is a time and place for everything, i don't have problem with serious stories but it does turn me off when that becomes the prominent standard, the ideal would be having a balance between the two to be honest

>old comics have a ton of text
>oh it's just part of the fun
>new comics have a ton of text
>holy fuck these guys can't work with the medium
Double standards as usual

>What do you really like about current Marvel?
THOR
AMAZING SPIDER-MAN
IMMORTAL HULK
CONAN THE BARBARIAN

It's not a matter of how much text there is on the page, rather how you use the text, dumbass

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Comics are a double medium. They contain art AND text. You can complain that the text sucks as it's written badly or it overtakes the art/graphics but if it tells the story/narrative fine then you sound illiterate vs an actual person with criticism.

So, nothing?

>Superman Habitat for Humanity
But seriously you are a massive newfag pleb if you think there is too much dialog in this. It's well partnered with the comic graphics.

Is Thora still around? I give you Immortal Hulk but Conan is just recent.

Millennials cannot read too much without losing concentration, user.

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What does nothing mean? I read it now and it is pleasant to me

My Wolverine doesn't speak Ruskie so fuck off Slavanon

>JJJ's Rapebot will never be back
Why even live?

If you're born before the 90's, that's kind of expected.

If you're born after the 90's, that's unusual, but good on you for getting good taste.

Shitting on classic Siegel an Shuster should be a zoomer crime.

>My Wolverine doesn't speak Ruskie
How did he communicate with the black widow when he trained her?

>Siegel and Shuster
>Lee and Ditko
>bad
Holy shit is school out early on Yea Forums? Such pleb taste

For Russia it is not classics. Just old American comics for silly children.

I'm begining to think it's a LARP.

This your action - not mine. I have no syndrome of a duckling about it

>literally hates Russians more than Nazis as backstory
He's intelligent and old enough to speak Russian and other languages but it doesn't mean he likes them. Wolvie hates em bruh

And you are not right again. In Aaron's plots Wolverine even in Siberia has a favourite bar.

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I see what you're doing here Omega Red. You're using Google translate to spread Russian propaganda about classic American comic staples and Clairemont and Byrne 80s 90s Xmen to weaken the American public but it won't work comrade. I hope Marvel makes OR into a tranny for virtue points if they haven't already.

Hmm something fishy here

And one of the best friends of Wolverine russian Colossus

>I see what you're doing here Omega Red.
We are familiar? Abruptly) Who you are?
>I hope Marvel makes OR into a tranny for virtue points if they haven't already.
But it will not change its glorious past, truly?

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Lies

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Russian pr

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Do comics really need a narrator in the first place?

It is Ultimete. And author some third-rate scribbler. This story is even remembered then by nobody.

Depends on the story.

If he comments that I already see - No. And old comics sin with infinite mental pronunciation by heroes same. As though I did not read the pregoing page.

Кaк cмeeшь ты нe пoмнить BEЛИКИЙ apк пpo гeя-Кoлocca (кoтopый дo cих пop нe издaн oфициaльнo в Poccии лoл)

Hy издaн и издaн, нo aвтopы caми eгo пoтoм нe вcпoминaют. Moжнo eгo нeoбязaтeльным oтвeтвлeниeм cчитaть. A ecли пpoпycтить, тo нa cюжeтe этo никaк нe oтpaзитcя.

Taк c кeм имeю чecть?

I don't mind the narration in comics, sometimes it can be fun to read, and can help set up the mood on occasion

>syndrome of a duckling
Baby duck syndrome*, Rusanon. Also, I'm pretty sure everyone ITT has it. You're fond of Ultimate's stupid edge because it was your introduction to comics, while Muricucks here are fond of Silver Age goofiness because it was their introduction to comics.

>Baby duck syndrome*
Oдин хpeн вce пoнимaют o чeм peчь. Дyмaю этo интepнaциoнaльнo
>You're fond of Ultimate's stupid edge because it was your introduction to comics
Well why? I like also Clermont with Byrne. Very. And here that to them... it is already higher than my forces.

Which is weird, considering Claremont is even wordier than a lot of Silver Age writers.

I will remind that Byrne and thought up Omega Red.

But fights in silence

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Well there was Omega Black.

Some artists don't think so but their art can be very post modern and lack storytelling. Most artists do though and will have text even if they do it themselves and suck at being writers in general. Guys like Dave Sim are great artists but sometimes use a fuckton of text. Who am I to judge?

I just find it funny that Piotr and Logan can rip off limbs like it's nothing.

Like Black black? Oh boy...

У мeня жe дaжe фигypки в кocтюмaх из этoгo пepиoдa.

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The posing is really weird here. If there was an extra panel between 3 and 4 where Samurai pushes Wolverine away to hit him from behind it would flow much better.

Then explain why several posters in this, myself included, were born in the mid to late 80’s but seem to prefer comics from the 60’s and 70’s?

If my introduction to comics was the early 90’s why aren’t I drawn to the 90’s comics out of nostalgia and baby duck whatever? Maybe because your theory is shit?

True but I remember reading this going "whoa Xmen is just like manga whoa"? Yeah I know I was a dumb kid.

Oh, and before you give me the usual response that I’m contrarian or whatever just know that I like comics because they give me enjoyment. I don’t like older comics to impress people or frustrate people or whatever nonsense your kind is always spewing. I simply like comics that provide entertaining stories and fantastic art...I know this will be a difficult concept for you, so just take it in slowly and maybe abort the no doubt skewering response your brain had formulated for me.

This just means you grew up the way you grew up, in a way that left you with an enjoyment of certain types of storytelling. Other people grew up in different environments where the other types of storytelling were more to their liking. It's not that hard of a concept to grasp.

Thanks for the non sequitur friend.

I was specifically addressing the previous comment RE: people only like what they start with. Your comment is actually in total agreement with mine, people like what they like NOT necessarily what they were first introduced to.

You're not going to actually argue that Spider-Man was bad before OMD and that it actually helped him, are you tripfriend?

Fun fact.

One russian publisher released "Ultimate X-Men", but corrected text. So Colossus was not gay, he was just too shy to talk with girls.

Hi from Russia. I even dont surprised that somebody who prefer ultimate more than 616 is slav, cause russian fandom is maybe most edgy comics fandom. People from here talk about India sometimes, but i can tell you that Russia is second india.

I think it have same roots. You live in poor Shitistan full of unhappy people and you want Shitistan with evil antiheroes in comics. Fuck heroism fighting for ideals and heroes as role models for us to be like, let it be dark and gritty, yeah?

Russia prefer Batman to Superman.
Russia prefer Snyder to Donner.
Russia prefer Ultimate to 616, Frank Miller DD to Mark Wayd DD, Ledger to Nicholson and think that Rorshach is best boy in "Watchmen" and Osimandias was nothing else but hero.

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Damn thats pretty based.
Now you and your Pops probably shit on modern Marvel, because of how shit it is today...

Its too much text thats the problem, its too much shitty text thats the problem user. The difference between past text in Marvel comics vs new text in Marvel comics is like the difference between attending a lecture and listening to the village idiot ramble on...

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While reading through 60s Marvel, i really liked how much meat each issue had, it didn't felt like any space was wasted, and i was dissapointed when they switched to 3 or 4 part stories with fewer panels per page, which is not bad, i just enjoy single issues stories more.

I still have to get around to read 60s DC, maybe that was different, i dunno

youtu.be/bwnksI2ZoJI

Welcome to like 60% of Yea Forums

>and think that Rorshach is best boy in "Watchmen" and Osimandias was nothing else but hero.

You sounded believable up until this

I don't know about Ozymandias being considered a hero, but a lot of people do jerk off to him. I remember seeing some Russian blogpost about 25 best movie villains and the author put Ozzy as #1.pleb

The gay Colossus arc from Ultimate X-Men was never published in Russia, and all the previous allusions to him being gay were mistranslated on purpose.

Was Torment the earliest example of bad "decompressed" comics?

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Hmm I didn't realize with McFarlane on board they tried to make Spider-Man as edgy as Batman but you can clearly see they call him the Arachnaknight on the cover. Oh DC and Marvel never give up on trying to rip each other off. Kek

>Hmm I didn't realize with McFarlane on board they tried to make Spider-Man as edgy as Batman but you can clearly see they call him the Arachnaknight on the cover.

it's very, very deliberate. This was the prior year's top-selling comic. And it also had the gimmick of different color variants, something McFarlane's Spider-Man #1 also did.

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No. I prefer older Marvel comics to all other comics. The 60-70’s especially.

a re-issue of Spider-Man #5 was my first comic book.

as a kid, coming straight from the cartoon to THAT was pretty jarring, so that's why i never really liked it. and i never had the initiative to track down the other issues in the arc.

there was a lot that was different that i didn't like, namely (and more to your point) that it wasn't a "self-contained" story like an episode of the show - i had to find other issues for something to feel complete.

not that any of that trip down memory lane had much to do with what you're saying user. what is your gripe with Torment?

Heh. Fun bit of trivia, Todd liked to hide spiders in his covers, and would put the number of spiders you were supposed to find underneath his signature. On this cover, he put in SO many spiders, that even he loses count, and so underneath his signature is simply: ?.

I have nothing to add to how right you are, so here's a pic

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LOL... I actually did make it, it’s an app.

But you’re right I wasn’t looking for some kind of underground Indy cred. Just sharing covers that I like.

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It needlesly drags for five issues, basically the Lizard has been killing a bunch of people because he's being controlled by Calypso's magic, her magic is also affecting Spider-Man, after fighting Spidey is kidnapped, they fight again, during battle the place accidently explodes, they fight some more, the cops show up, Calypso escapes. That's not something that needed five issues to be told, it's edgy for the sake of being edgy, it also doesn't feel complete because the comic itself never says who she is or why she's doing all this, i think she's later identified as Calypso in some other title

Based

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Mike Zeck is literally one of the best cover artists ever. Just look at the early issues of GI Joe. Masterpieces of excitement.

You are right user) Everything that you wrote is applicable to me) Yes, the hero has to be more human. Ideal heroes cause rejection and irritation. Well because the world is not divided into black and white. There are only shades of gray.

The first comment which you allocated not mine, it yours)

Who's your favorite comic artist? After reading New Teen Titans George Pérez became my all times favorite, he's both a terrific illustrator and a superb storyteller

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George Perez
Arthur Adams
Gene Colan
Bernie Wrightson
Barry Windsor-Smith
Gil Kane
Jim Steranko
Marshall Rogers
Neal Adams
...to name a few

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no i'm going to argue that stan lee's idea of flawed heroes was one of the bullets that killed marvel after that same idea got them off the ground in the 60s and that spider-man never should have gotten to that point

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Peter had plenty of good stories when he started to grow up. It was really intriguing watching him grow up and grow as a person, and this isn't coming from some boomer who aged with him.

Bump this good thread.

It's not a joke. Some russians really think that he is hero, This opinion is not as popular as other that i said, but it's still exist.

Also a lot of russians prefer Superior Spiderman to Amazing and think that Fantastic Four is borring atavism cause ideal family. My friend even tald me once that Impossible Family from "Ventura Bros" is better.

You're sounding less believable.

It's Russia, don't be surprised.

Our liberals even call this country the Looking Glass, like in book about Alice.

I from Russia. and this tells everything truly.
Superior is popular among fans of a spider in Russia.
The Fantastic Four has practically no fans per se.

Do you as though apologize? Unless Superior Slotts is worse than his amazing?

I consider myself the liberal, but I do not understand why it is bad or abnormal to love Superior.

The problem is that a lot of russians think Superior is better than Peter himself as character, cause Superior is brutal vigilante and "more effective". It's not about Slott, it's more about core of character. But yes, we have some fans who looks deeper than "edgy=good".

It's normal to love him. I love superior as experiment, and it was interesting look to character, but i don't think that he is better than Peter. And i don't think that somebody can be better just because brutal and edginess. I love Otto Spider for mad science, for villain become a hero trope. Not for bone-cracking

Dude, Russia is literally Bizarro World.

Quickly showed us the Spider congenial to the chastener. It was fresh, it was unusual, Parker at last moved off dead center and began to build something, to create. It was interesting.

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I just find it hard to believe that Superior Spider-Man is held up as a great example of a brutal vigilante. The whole point in Slott's unsubtlety is that he isn't.

If to speak specifically about the character, then he is just another. Who is better the punisher or the superman?

Actually there was not enough Superior and he did not manage to bother, and classical Parker beats about the bush, his life stands still and therefore it loses this fight.

>that it wasn't a "self-contained" story like an episode of the show - i had to find other issues for something to feel complete.
Kek
Don't you remember tuning in for "Neogenic Nightmare Part 482" user?

>)
Убeйcя

You're really blowing the Superior shit out of proportion. Even if some Russians do love it, a much more widespread reaction is comparing it to the 90s series/Straczynski run/Raimi movies (stuff that introduced them to Spider-Man) and then REEEE'ing about how it's "not muh" Spider-Man. Really similar to this thread actually.

Фy, тaким быть.
Зa нeoднoзнaчными гepoями cлeдить мнoгoкpaтнo интepecнee, чeм зa идeaльными.

Я пpo yлыбoчки

Oни тo тeбe чeм нe yгoдили?

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Heecтecтвeннo и нaтянyтo + здecь их тeм бoлee никтo нe иcпoльзyeт

>Heecтecтвeннo и нaтянyтo
Я cтaвлю yлыбкy кoгдa yлыбaюcь нa caмoм дeлe. He вceгдa кoнeчнo, нo y мeня и ceйчac лыбa)
>здecь их тeм бoлee никтo нe иcпoльзyeт
Хмypыe cypoвыe нopды? знaчит дaвaй их нayчим)

He нaдo пpинocить cюдa eщe бoльшe paкa, пoжaлyйcтa, тyт cвoeгo хвaтaeт

Эмoции этo paк?(
Mы c жeнoй в мecceнджepaх пocтoяннo cмaйликaми пepeбpacывaeмcя.
Я дyмaю ты тaкoй вpaждeбный кaк paз пo тoмy, чтo их нe иcпoльзyeшь)
Улыбниcь :D

He вceм нpaвитcя пpитвopятьcя, чтo вce хopoшo и нaдeвaть вымyчeннyю yлыбкy, кoтopaя никaк нe пoмoгaeт, yзкoлoбый ты экcтpaвepт

At least the cartoon had flashbacks and exposition to fill you in on what was going on

>экcтpaвepт
Tы нa бopдe, oбщaeшьcя людьми...Чтo здecь плoхoгo? Пoчeмy yлыбкa дoлжнa быть вымyчeннoй?
Я вoт нa двaчe в paздeлe кoмикcoв cтpaдaл из-зa oтcyтcтвия coбeceдникoв (oдин мимoкpoкoдил в мecяц мaкcимyм), a тyт тaкoe paздoльe) Я пpaвдa дaльшe этoй тeмы нe хoдил никyдa (нe cчитaя мoeгo бyгypтa пo пoвoдy бьюcикa), нo дyмaю и в дpyгих тeмaх нaйдy c кeм пooбщaтьcя и этo пpeкpacнo)

I don't see why not. Who and what is stopping you.

No, it makes more sense than the opposite.
Yep.

Bump

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Would you do one with DC covers later?

"Arachknight" sounds really bad

That was actually harder than I care to admit. Too many covers to choose from but I wanted to stick to my self imposed format.

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Teбe дeйcтвитeльнo нaдo oбъяcнять, пoчeмy людям мoжeт быть нeпpиятнo, кoгдa ты пихaeшь cвoю жизнepaдocтнocть им в лицo?..

yes, old comics are stilted and boring

Eh screw it, I had a bunch left over so here’s another

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Look at all those colours. You don't see them in modern capes anymore.

>schitzophrenic pacing
Did anybody actually complained about that back in the day?

Not that I can discern. Sales in the Golden/Silver/Bronze age absolutely tower over modern circulation and, at least, the fans writing in were usually pretty positive. It seems to be a criticism that arrived after “decompressed” comics became the norm, modern fans would check out older comics and be shocked and appalled that an entire story would happen in a single issue.

“Words, words, words” seems to be the common complaint.

You’re not wrong friend, lots of muted colors, browns, sickly greens and if you’re lucky some pastels. You know it’s a problem when the most colorful thing on your cover is the company logo.

...and before anyone bothers: yes, I am cherry-picking the ever loving shit out of these covers.

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Знaeшь, я вoт зaкaзывaл мecяц нaзaд кpyжкy пo хoдячим мepтвeцaм. Хoтeл ee бpaтy пoдapить, a ceгoдня oнa пpишлa paзбитaя вдpeбeзги. Бaбyлькa в oкoшкe cкaзaлa, чтo нeчeгo тaкиe тoвapы пoчтoй poccии oтпpaвлять. Я oткpыл cпop c пpoдaвцoм и пoкa нe пoлyчил oтвeтa. Этo вce нeпpиятнo, нo я нe дyмaю, чтo я дoлжeн пpихoдить cюдa, чтoбы излить нa кoгo-тo нaкoпившийcя нeгaтив. Бoлee тoгo, ecли ты изнaчaльнo в плoхoм нacтpoeнии, гpyбящиe coбeceдники eщe бoлee иcпopтят тeбe нacтpoeниe.

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I think I may have phrased my sentence wrong, or perhaps you misunderstood my meaning.

I was agreeing that covers today are less colorful. My criticisms were levied at modern comics not classic era.

...of course, you could be agreeing with me and I just misunderstand. The juxtaposition in the image you posted perfectly encapsulates what I was going for.

>you could be agreeing with me and I just misunderstand. The juxtaposition in the image you posted perfectly encapsulates what I was going for.
Yes.

Ah...well now I feel stupid. Please accept this wrestling gif as an act of contrition.

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>Этo вce нeпpиятнo, нo я нe дyмaю, чтo я дoлжeн пpихoдить cюдa, чтoбы излить нa кoгo-тo нaкoпившийcя нeгaтив.
Tы плoхo пpeдcтaвляeшь, чтo тaкoe фopчaн и ктo oбычнo eгo пoceщaeт.
>Бoлee тoгo, ecли ты изнaчaльнo в плoхoм нacтpoeнии, гpyбящиe coбeceдники eщe бoлee иcпopтят тeбe нacтpoeниe.
Tы тaк гoвopишь, бyдтo ecть двe кpaйнocти: либo гpyбить и пocылaть вceх, либo нaвязывaть вceм cвoe ПAЗИTИФФHOE миpoвoззpeниe. Tы пpaв, чтo ocкopблeния мoгyт иcпopтить нacтpoeниe, нo eгo мoгyт иcпopтить и yлыбoчки. Я нopмaльнo oтнoшycь к пpocтым пocтaм, бeз тoгo или дpyгoгo. Я oбычнo здecь cтpeмлюcь чтo-тo oбcyдить, и, кaк я зaмeтил, c людьми, кoтopыe) пocтoяннo) пocтят) yлыбoчки) чacтo oчeнь тpyднo чтo-тo нopмaльнo oбcyдить. Oни бoльшe пpивыкли к пycтым paзгoвopaм ни o чeм и пoэтoмy вce cтapaютcя cвecти в шyткy или в эмoции.

The only ones from this that get my immediate attention are Michael Cho's and Chris Burnham's. Terry Dodson's comes close.

I'm not as much "shocked" as I think it can be harmful for the narrative as a whole. For another Daredevil example, here's how the original Jester arc ends. Two tonally different scenes take place in the same page, and it seems incredibly rushed. When in one panel Daredevil quips, and then in the next he suddenly thinks "hey, my life is actually pretty shit!", it's pretty comical and hard to take as serious drama. Not to mention that everything he mopes about here, including MUH KAREN, wasn't even mentioned throughout the issue, so it just looks like Lee is trying to remember random things for Matt to whine about so that the story can have some sort of a dramatic closure. Once again, it's especially jarring because all of this takes place in a single page. Maybe if one page was him talking to the police and then the next page was dedicated entirely to the dramatic segment, it would flow a bit better. And mind you, this was not a story told in a single issue, but this particular sequence is still rushed as hell.

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There doesn’t seem to be any joviality in his quip, just a forced attempt to shrug off the frustration he had with the police that were ready to arrest him moments earlier. His face is betraying his disgust with the situation, Colan wouldn’t have done that as a mistake, it was deliberate.

In the next scene with the Daredevil crisis over his mind wanders back to the personal conflicts plaguing Matt Murdock, which had been established in multiple issues leading up to this issue.

The issue is about his conflict with the Jester but there is an overarching story that is slowly playing out in the background. A new reader gets a fun Jester battle and a hint of more. A longtime reader gets a self-contained thrilling adventure and further peaks into Murdock’s unraveling personal life.

I’m sure 25 straight issues of Batman being suicidally depressed is more tonally consistent but it’s also an absolute slog to read through.

>It seems to be a criticism that arrived after “decompressed” comics became the norm,

I don't think it happened by then. It was gradually seeping in during the 90's, mainly because it was a backlash against the early 90's Image books and X-Men (and X-Men-style writing which some Image books like WildCATS and Cyberforce were also trying to imitate). This gained ground partly because sales were really bad during the late 90's.

Warren Ellis was doing columns about how to improve comics and gained a following for that and his Transmetropolitan, Authority, Planetary work. And when the comics market situation was as dire as it was back then, people will believe anything especially when you don't have a frame of reference for what the future will bring. One of the arguments Ellis was doing was writing for the trade because the trade market would guarantee you get perpetual royalties. This was actually a sensible idea at the time, but keep in mind no one in the late 90's/early 00's had any idea what digital comics would be like in the 2010's, or that things would change for print. It still would work for creator-owned stuff which is the other point Ellis made. But I think people took the writing-for-the-trade thing to heart.

Then Bendis' Ultimate Spider-Man was probably the point when a decompressed comic was outselling most Marvel books, Quesada and Jemas were then pushing for more decompression, probably because that did well and probably because Ellis made a point about all that stuff.

Insightful, thanks. I’ll have to take your word for it, the mid 90’s was when I took a break from comics, I only recall The Authority in particular being hailed as a decompression forefather... so much of your timeline of events seems accurate.

I can definitely appreciate Ellis’ style of decompression over Bendis’ abysmal version. It’s a shame Bendis became the template for every lazy writer and that, as you said, the “write for a trade” suggestion became the guiding principle behind the big two.

I will say that it made it a lot easier for me to give up floppies and eventually modern trades. Too little bang for my buck, older collections are absolutely dense with material in comparison.

Love me some Beasts of Burden though

No. The vast majority of current Marvel and DC is infested with too much faggotry and only caters to SJWs. Shit as of the last Batman issue, it's confirmed that Bane is a big gay.

What's your opinion on this article? It talks about comics prices, lenguage, and decompression

zak-site.com/Great-American-Novel/great_value_comics.html

These personal conflicts have barely been a thing throughout the entire arc. There have been mentions of these things a couple of times, but virtually it still comes out of nowhere. Even if this particular quip was passive aggressive, Daredevil was quipping throughtout the entire issue, if not the entire arc. We got to see his thoughts, and they were barely ever occupied by Foggy or Karen. So just suddenly remembering them at the end is by all means rushed, since this is not how real people think.

Oкeй, я тeбя пoнял. Пocлeдний apгyмeнт в пoльзy cмaйликoв пpивeдy и зaкoнчим: нa бoльшинcтвe фopyмoв (в т.ч. иллюминaты), гдe я oбщaлcя, я зaмeчaл, чтo мнoгиe нe пoнимaют кoгдa я гoвopю c capкaзмoм, кoгдa пpocтo шyчy, кoгдa я их шyтя бeз злoбы пoдъябывaю и из этoгo пpoизpacтaли cpaчи, мeня бaнили и в тaкoм дyхe. Я дyмaю cмaйлы дaдyт людям вoзмoжнocть пoнять, чтo я имeю ввидy.

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I think he is right that comics need to embrace what they can do that other mediums can't. I remembered the early 00's emphasis on decompression and widescreen. This was understandable in the sense that people who championed it (like Ellis for example) wanted to have comics be easily readable for new readers. And when you compare it to 90's comics, it appears more readable. In retrospect though I think it led to a lot of extremely bland looking comics in the 00's and 10's.

Yeah, real people never get distracted.

Have you never had a fight with a loved one then gone to work and focused on your job? Do you just sit around and mope, unable to laugh at your colleagues jokes or complete complex tasks?

Matt just finished a difficult task and now, with his mind clear, he can’t help but recall his other concerns. If anything Matt is more relatable in this regard to the common man.

Or maybe you're just used to the new style, that's why old comics seem rushed to you

You're searching for meanings that I don't think are there. You know perfectly well this is not exclusive to that particular arc, and that ignoring certain story elemens for 20+ pages to suddenly remember they exist at the end is perfectly normal for Silver Age. Do characters just get distracted all the time? Doesn't that get old and, well, unrelatable eventually?
The slower pace is not exclusive to new comics, it's more common for stories in general.

Ктo ты был нa иллюминaтaх?
мимo

I love that website, but sometimes one gets lost in it because it still uses a late 90s style.

I’m not “searching” for anything, it couldn’t be simpler. The protagonist is focused on something, it distracts him from his other concerns. Task is completed, now he recalls less immediate concerns.

Simple. Relatable. Human.

Of course it’s not related to this one particular arc, or even era, or even comics. It’s human nature, that’s why it works...for most of us.

Honestly, this is an exceedingly dull argument and your point of view is so detached from normal human behavior that I suspect you will refuse to ever even consider anything contrary to your established beliefs. It’s fine, I’ll concede the argument if it makes you happy. Humans getting distracted is so unrelatable, you’ve convinced me.

How about that new Amazing Spider-Man huh? What a great story! I love how Spider-Man is focused on surviving the hunt in Central Park and then recalls in a single panel at the end of the book that he has a bad feeling about MJ. Two issues in a row where he remembers an unspecified feeling of dread about MJ very briefly before getting back to the task at hand.

>The protagonist is focused on something, it distracts him from his other concerns.
It doesn't have to though? I'm pretty sure even in Waid's Daredevil, there was a lot of times when, even during fights, Matt would still worry about Foggy, or think of something other than the direct matter at hand, which would later play into the story. Apparently everyone who finds this more realistic than straight division of the two is detached from normal human behavior?

Also it's bizzare that you keep bringing up comics I haven't even read as if to prove something.
>and then recalls in a single panel at the end of the book that he has a bad feeling about MJ. Two issues in a row where he remembers an unspecified feeling of dread about MJ very briefly before getting back to the task at hand.
Well yeah, that's pretty much exactly the same situation as that Daredevil arc. I don't really know what I'm supposed to get out of this.

Matt forgets his girlfriend troubles because he’s trying not to die = totally unrealistic.

Matt remembers his buddy Foggy is having money issues while literally fighting for his life = totally normal.

I’m sorry...what is your point? I thought you were knocking older comics because of perceived storytelling weaknesses, so I used a modern comic to prove that your criticism is not limited to older comics. Then you...just pivot and drop the original impetus of our disagreement.

If your intent was not to debate older comics versus newer comics then what are you even doing in this thread? We’re talking about the differences between older comics and modern and discussing our preferences therein.

The difference is that unlike some other mediums comics have limited space that they can't afford to waste without losing entertainment value. Seriously, comics will never be able to properly compete with movies and TV, so why bother? Comics should be their own thing

Aaand we just hit the 400 posts mark

Have you never head random worries pop into your head at the most inconvenient moments?

Matt forgets about Karen not because the writer intends for him to forget, but because it's easier to have him forget and just keep writing fight scenes as quip fests, only briefly giving the hero time to reflect on anything in the brief couple of panels at the end. It seems we have a Watsonian vs Doylist situation here.

>I’m sorry...what is your point? I thought you were knocking older comics because of perceived storytelling weaknesses, so I used a modern comic to prove that your criticism is not limited to older comics. Then you...just pivot and drop the original impetus of our disagreement.
>If your intent was not to debate older comics versus newer comics then what are you even doing in this thread? We’re talking about the differences between older comics and modern and discussing our preferences therein.
I'm not saying this is absent from the new comics
You first provided an example of a newer Batman story where that supposedly didn't happen, but the other extreme did instead. Later you provide an example from Slott's ASM (?) where the same exact thing hapens. That's confusing, because the only argument these both support is "new comics bad", not "new comics bad because they still have the drawbacks of the old comics" or "new comics bad because they do the opposite of old comics".

Well, I'm not saying new comics are immune to this, but you're more likely to find this in old comics. Characters started getting more time to reflect for a reason, not because the readers were detached from normal human behavior. I mean, even in Starlin's 70s stuff, which is technically still "old comics", Adam Warlock constantly finds reasons to feel like shit, regardless of whether he's in a fight or not. That's because Starlin understood it would be odd and inconsistent to completely separate one aspect of a character from another.

>all this fuss over a single page
Jesus Christ

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>Have you never had random worries pop into your head at the most inconvenient moments?
Yes. Have you never forgotten your woes for a few minutes because you had a difficult task to complete?

>Not because the writer intends for him to forget, but because it's easier to have him forget and just keep writing fight scenes as quip fests...
LOL, and you said I was reaching before. You’re literally making up the writer’s motivation.

>You first provided an example of a newer Batman story where that supposedly didn't happen, but the other extreme did instead.
Yes, it’s the exact opposite of the DD story. It’s tonally consistent and the protagonist’s thoughts never stray from his personal concerns...and it’s abysmally dull.

>Later you provide an example from Slott's ASM (?)
Nope, current ongoing ASM.

>That's confusing, because the only argument these both support is "new comics bad", not "new comics bad because they still have the drawbacks of the old comics" or "new comics bad because they do the opposite of old comics".
Your confusion is due to our disagreement that this type of storytelling is a drawback. Batman was the opposite of this “drawback” and it’s still a bad story. ASM is an example of how the story can be bad even when it uses this trope. The point is that modern comics are bad because of OTHER reasons, you’re the only one saying it’s because of supposedly jarring tone shifts.

>Well, I'm not saying new comics are immune to this, but you're more likely to find this in old comics.
That’s another point where we disagree. I think it’s alive and well but also that it has no barring on quality.

>Starlin understood it would be odd and inconsistent to completely separate one aspect of a character from another.
Are you serious? Spider-Man, Batman, and Daredevil have a duality to their identity. Adam Warlock doesn’t have a secret identity to occupy his time. You couldn’t have picked a worse example.

Based and red pilled
>Why did comics commit economic suicide?
>One word: video.

>In the past, comics were mostly aimed at children. We could argue about why this is, but that's where the market led in the early days. It seemed to work, so publishers never tried hard to reach adults.

>Then along came video, and the kids had an even easier way to get simple stories, so comic sales fell. The rational response would be to say "right, what can we do that video cannot?" Answer: highly condensed stories. but instead, terrified of losing the traditional market, the comics decided to copy video instead: with more pictures and less reading.

>This is a battle comics cannot win!
>Video has 24 frames a second Comics can never equal that. Video has no thing to read. Comics can never equal that - video can compensate with sound, but comics can't. Chasing video is economic suicide.

>Other reasons why comics became more cinematic
>Comics publishers can justify their love affair with video in four ways:

>A small number of cinematic comics sold well. E.g. Dark Knight Returns. But they also cost a lot more money. They only work as an occasional high priced novelty.
>Older comics rely on expository dialog (i.e. where the heroes give a running commentary of what's happening). Sure, this is artificial, but so is the modern cinematic style: nobody really talks like they do in the movies, saying just the right clever thing in just the right way.
>Self-selection. The only people still buying comics are the ever shrinking minority who like what is being produced. Naturally they vote for more of the same.

>Reading comics is a learned skill that young people don't have. As Tom Brevoort wrote:
>Q: "I've had several women tell me the biggest obstacle to them reading comics is that it's hard for them to follow the word balloons. It seems so simple to me, left to right, and down. Are they forever stunted due to not having read comics as kids?"
>A.: "This isn't something specific to women, but to all people beyond a certain age. it seems that reading comic books is a learned skill, like any other, and if somebody doesn't learn the language at an early enough age, it can be difficult for them to decode it later. This relates to the fact that comics are one of the few mediums that engage both hemispheres of the brain at the same time--one half actively decoding the words while the other passively absorbs the images. For people who never picked up the ability, they tend to have to process the elements individually: they read the words, then they look at the pictures, and then they try to marry the two in their minds. It's an excruciating process, and a very real part of the reason why it's difficult to get adults who never read comics before to try them."

>This is true, but it applies to cinematic comics as well, to some degree. And to cinema, too it all has conventions (just compare Hollywood to art house). Cinematic comics create problems because it's hard to work out what's going on because the dialog doesn't tell you. The reader has to learn a skill anyway, so you'd better choose a skill that gives the biggest reward. They will if the reward is great enough

>Answer: highly condensed stories. but instead, terrified of losing the traditional market, the comics decided to copy video instead: with more pictures and less reading.
Damn 100% spot on. It’s not just children that find little value in “cinematic” less-is-more comics, adults find it to value-poor as well.

I had a colleague that saw Black Panther in theaters and became desperate to read BP comics. I took him to a comic shop near the office and found him a copy of Coates BP #1. He flipped through it and remarked “Is that it? It’s like a picture book, there’s almost no dialogue.”

He bought it anyway, read it in 3 minutes during his lunch break and said it was a waste of $4.

The Comic Industry (and misguided fans) is constantly trying to tell us less is more. No, less is less. Period.

The less-is-more approach can work with stuff like The Crow and very introspective works, but ultimately, stories thrive on characters, and characters are understood through dialouge.

Look at this stupid faggot. Look at this stupid faggot and laugh.

>Yes. Have you never forgotten your woes for a few minutes because you had a difficult task to complete?
>LOL, and you said I was reaching before. You’re literally making up the writer’s motivation.
I don't think it's a stretch to say Lee wasn't putting too much thought into the Daredevil ongoing at the time, considering he left it altogether a couple of issues later. You were the first to imply it was his intent to show that Matt forgot about Karen to make him more relatable. I don't really believe that's the case, I think he was just being lazy. If anything, I believe my theory is more grounded.

>Are you serious? Spider-Man, Batman, and Daredevil have a duality to their identity. Adam Warlock doesn’t have a secret identity to occupy his time. You couldn’t have picked a worse example.
The secret identity part here doesn't really matter. First of all, because that Batman example you provided supposedly still had a lot of reflection despite him having to maintain a secret identity. Second, even if we do take that into accoun with Daredevil, there's still some "old comics" stuff like the Miller run. Here's an example where Matt is in action, has to maintain his secret identity, but there's still place for him to think of the people he knows. Moreover, it actually serves to motivate him to win in next page. I don't think it would be better writing for him to "just get distracted" and just randomly win instead.

Either way, I remember now that my initial complaint was not even tone shifts themselves, but a more general problem of the pacing. I was talking about how it's hard to take drama seriously when it's not really emphasized upon, but, on the contrary, crammed into pitiful three (3) panels at the end of an action-packed issue, almost like an afterthought and not an actual plot point.

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True, like Age of Reptiles which benefits from a purely visual narrative. There’s always a place for it but it can’t (or at least shouldn’t) be the norm.

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Maybe a better example of poor pacing would be The Death of Mike Murdock . Ironically, it also comes from a story not told in a singular issue, and it's still rushed. If there was a page where Matt reflects of what he's been trying to do with Mike Murdock and whether he's achieved anything or just created another headache for himself, this decision would hold much more weight. But because the story moves at a breakneck pace, we get the "I just thought of something!" treatment instead, making this particular plot decision seem forced and literally coming out of nowhere.

We get it, you hate early Daredevil

Neither of us know what Stan was thinking. To say that your opinion is more valid than mine is pure arrogance.

I don’t recall that particular issue of DD but I believe he’s being beaten by the man that beat Becky and confined her to a wheelchair. It makes a lot more sense that his mind would flash back to Becky as he is being beaten by the same fucking guy that crippled his friend.

The battle with Jester had nothing whatsoever to do with Karen, what would prompt him to suddenly remember her in the middle of a fight? “Oh no, the Jester just threw a YoYo bomb at me! *Gasp* It’s going up and down...not unlike my turbulent relationship with Karen!”

You can’t just say the secret identity of a character doesn’t matter, that’s the whole reason characters have concerns in vastly different areas of their lives. Tom King’s take on Batman is that he only exists as long as Bruce suffers. So every issue is just Bruce hating himself and punching people and crying about his ex-fiancé. There’s no change in pacing because it’s just abysmal the whole way through.

You call it pacing issues. I call it threads of a grander plot gradually brought together over time. It’s an “afterthought” because it’s the B-plot of that particular issue, it wasn’t meant to steal focus from the main plot. If you dedicated more time to it the Jester threat would have been weakened.

Oh man, I cannot imagine how much you would have hated Gerber’s run on The Defenders!

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Not really. I can't bring myself to hate it, I don't even think it's the worst SA Marvel book, and there are some arcs I would say are well-written. It's actually fun to look into what Lee was trying to do with the series and what direction it was headed in at different points (even if it kept changing and lasted for like a couple of arcs each time) and what bumps were faced along the way.
>You call it pacing issues. I call it threads of a grander plot gradually brought together over time. It’s an “afterthought” because it’s the B-plot of that particular issue, it wasn’t meant to steal focus from the main plot. If you dedicated more time to it the Jester threat would have been weakened.
I was initially talking about how extending the scene to a separate page would probably be enough and less jarring. But I can't really argue with the rest.

.

Speaking of the Defenders; has there ever been a better team?

No. The answer is no, I apologize for the shortness of this debate.

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There's only one nitpick I have with that part
>A small number of cinematic comics sold well. E.g. Dark Knight Returns. But they also cost a lot more money. They only work as an occasional high priced novelty.
DKR was cinematic, but it also used pacing and paneling extremely well, far better than most comics that try to be cinematic.

But other than that he has a good point.

Sp-Spider Man...no...

No, but its wrong if you like current comics more than classics because current comics are an abomination in the eyes of god and man.

I think it's partially because of volume. You can cherry pick the things you like out of several fucking decades of comics vs whatever mistakes DC and Marvel happen to be making this year. Of course old comics are gonna win when you stack them up like that.

The Champions might have had a shot but they killed off the series too quickly. Oh well.

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Я нe c тoбoй вышe oбщaлcя?
Я дyмaл, чтo чeлoвeк, кoтopый oбpaщaяcь кo мнe вдpyг ни c тoгo ни c ceгo cтaл гoвopить oб Oмeгa Peдe, yзнaл мeня. Зaбaвнo)

Between classics and present comics a huge abyss in which too many comic books are

Classic KGbeast

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Modern KGbeast

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New52 KGbeast

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Best design
>Romita jr.
disgusting

Honestly, it probably means you have good taste. Most modern Marvel and DC publications suck compared to those decades, at least the greatest works of those decades that people gravitate to when they look back.

Do one showing how muted and muddled modern marvel covers are, if they aren't downright bad

All the marvel ones look like complete horse shit, the only dc ones i like is Supes in the upper right corner

I already did, see What the fuck...I thought what they did to Black Cat was bad but this is worse! We have covered up all of KGBeast’s glorious skin! I can’t enjoy Batman anymore! (Kidding)

Pic unrelated

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Don’t you die on me!

>Romita jr.
>disgusting

basado y rojopilled

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In hindsight, was COIE neccesary for DC in the long run?

This website is gold.

There were some good ideas like having Flash be a legacy hero, and I liked that it felt like a lived-in superhero universe with an extended history.

But it was extremely stupid to get rid of the Multiverse. Just create a new Earth with all the characters on it, and just say that no one can travel to the other worlds from that point on. Earth-2 could just be given to Roy Thomas to keep going, Earth-S could have their own Captain Marvel and the Marvel Family that'd be closer to the Fawcett version.

events were not necessary

>Just create a new Earth with all the characters on it, and just say that no one can travel to the other worlds from that point on. Earth-2 could just be given to Roy Thomas to keep going, Earth-S could have their own Captain Marvel and the Marvel Family that'd be closer to the Fawcett version.
They sort of did that later on, didn't they?

They did that later on. My point is they should've done that in the first place in the 80's.

This

They got rid of the Multiverse because they were going to reboot the DCU. Keeping the Multiverse would have left everything the way it was before.

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>>Romita jr.
>disgusting
Romita is bad? And you saw what was made with Susan's face in new F4? Her face is so ugly that it in cabinet of curiosities should be handed over.

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That looks hideous

>mira ese culote papá

Oh no you don't

Just here to say congratulations op this is probably the best thread of 2019 so far, gave me lots of reading recomendations.

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Which begs to question, why doing it at all, since DC has tried to bring everything back into place one way or the other?

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Yeah, I remember just a few years ago when the same people were trashing older comics for having commie villains or cameos by Kissinger or Khomeni, not because they were cringe-worthy or offensive, but because they said it's embarrassing when comics comment on the real world. Scans_Daily was mocking the cover of Captain America Comics #1 and EC's racism stories for years and putting them in cringe threads, even CA: The First Avenger mocked that cover, now they're talking about how "powerful" it is and "relevant".

I think my biggest problem with politics in comics isn't even the stance they take, it's that it's so obvious that once Trump is out of office, all of the respect for comics that they've been getting from the mainstream is going to disappear. I don't believe for a second that the same people who, not even 5 years ago, couldn't even talk about Maus except in a sarcastic "boy is this a slow news day"-tone but are now praising Mockingbird and calling Spider-Verse the best film of the decade, have genuinely come to appreciate comics. It's purely a political move and nothing sincere, and people like Chelsea Cain and Erika Henderson better enjoy every bit of the attention they're getting now, it's not going to last.

Oh shit, damn that's a stolen pose alright, Jiren is a bit zoomed in on and his left is a fist but otherwise it's the same cover ahahaa,wtf I knew they copied Superman shit but this is ridiculous thanks for that user

Mainly early 80s.

60s was mainly for Fantastic Four having the spotlight. 70s had the OG Johnny Blaze Ghost Rider for Marvel's behalf, but not much going on in general.

80s had a lot of stuff going on. Everybody was spouting out whatever they could make a comic out of. Transformers, ROM, Atari Force, etc. You name it.

No. I got bored of modern Marvel after getting depressed at how few things appealed to me outside of Superior Foes, Waid DD and Moon Knight 2011- the entire run. I also got bored of the modern deconstruction trends and preferred stuff that was fun. I conside the 60s Marvel deconstructionist elements different to shit like Kick-Ass for reasons anyone in this thread should recognise, and like the former more.
Since then I got on a train of collecting mostly Silver and Bronze Age Marvel and a few Jack Kirby DC comics (New Gods is on the wish list).
More condensed stories, multiparts don't often feel like drags, the crossovers are entertaining, every issue isn't trying to be depressing so the few, if any, heavier moments there are feel more distinct. As a mid-20s guy, I like old shit better

I don't know if art has gotten worse but being able to tell a story using art has gotten significantly crummier since the 80s at least.

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I don't know if it's an attempt to appeal to Tumblr/webcomics fans or just shit modern standards, but yeah.

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Buddy come on...the 60’s had just about every Marvel series start up from FF4 to Spider-Man to Thor, etc.

...and the 70’s? Holy shit you better believe that was peak comics. Kirby went to DC, Conan started up, horror comics had a resurrection not seen since the EC day’s, Roy Thomas takes the Avengers to their peak, Swamp Thing, Jim Aparo starts his historic B&tB run, The Defenders, Marvel Two-in-One, Luke Cage and Iron Fist, Fritz the Cat, Marvel Team-Up, Gwen Stacy dies, Howard the Duck, Shang Chi, Jim Starlin, The Punisher, Wolverine, Englehart, Metal Hurlant, Warlord, The X-Men return, Moebius, American Splendor, Nova, Star Lord, The Celestials, Hypno Hustler, Demon in a Bottle Iron Man, Miller takes over Daredevil, O’Neil and Adams return Batman to his noir-inspired origins.

...lots of stuff happened is my point.

Would anybody like to recommend me some retro non-superhero comics?

I'm genuinely not sure if this is better or worse than the "In Awe of Lesbians" page from America.

The Crow
Chuck Dixon's run on Punisher
V for Vendetta
When the Wild Wind Blows
The Black Dragon
Any of the Marvel Conan
Any of Dark Horse's Alien vs Predator books.

Corto Maltese

They’re stealing his gay.

>the "In Awe of Lesbians" page from America.
Is hilarious. It’s got a decent composition and it never fails to make me wince-laugh.

This is just bad.

Somebody post it and lets have a side-by-side

I approve of it with the Noir edition of The Dark Knight Returns because I've always disliked it's coloring

Bump

The Sphinx

After reflecting a lot about it, I think the best way to save to Qutzalcoalt and its mother is…Quetzalcoalt itself. If Tomorrow she’s like she was in the morning and she’s like that in the evening too then she has to be different in the night to create a new day. A different timeline that can save her from Oedipus and confuse him or at least give to her people a chance to fight in behalf of her and they can fight with claws and teeth because they respect her very much (Effective, but avoid it if it can cause problems to the Mage of Time, he has to think carefully and just act if he won’t be affected by the time travel and the changes.

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Holy spit-and-polish. This is real.

Ok

A chameleon change of colors when he is scared.

Change her colors.

If I were her I would change my face too.

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back before every crossover had to deal with the merging of dimensions or whatever the fuck. best way to do it, honestly

Bump

Maybe 70s, but not the 80s.

My personal taste leans towards 50s and 60s for Superheroics but for slice of life, indie shit, today's books are better.

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>Nope, current comic books are absolute crap.
This

What’s wrong with the 70’s?

I know right? Especially that one issue where they learned to work together despite their differences.

Redpill me on Gentleman Ghost.

>one out of over a dozen of what that other user said

user we're just having a giggle here

If only early X-Men would get the same amount of love DD got in this thread

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While I prefer 80s marvel, how bad current marvel is claimed to be ITT is greatly exaggerated. I would agree if it was early 200s-2010s, but now it’s pretty decent

>200s
2000s*

I will not die I'll wait here for you, I feel alive when you're beside me, I will not die I'll wait here for you, In my time of dying

Fine fine
I think people are more split on early X-Men, tho I think DD's one of the lower tier Marvel Silver Age comics.
I only have 1-10 of SA X-Men, so I can't comment. Haven't had time to read it yet. I wish the first EC would get reprinted so I could buy it tho

>how bad current marvel is claimed to be ITT is greatly exaggerated.

I think it depends. Quesada-era Marvel was simultaneously good and bad. Alonso-era Marvel took a real nosedive over time compared to Quesada-era Marvel. C.B.-era Marvel so far seems like it's trying to improve at least some things.

The colors are best on the left, but I don't like how worn down it looks. Left and middle are interchangeable for me.

I'll get around to it, but right now im deep into DD. Im just around the part where DD reveals he's Matt Murdock to Karen.

No.

I only read this anc and the two parter with the Hobgoblin and Ghost Rider, i coulnd't bother to read any further, does it get any better after Mcfarlane leaves the book?

I feel like I've seen top left in a ditko panel before

DD was lucky enough to have Wally Wood and then Gene Colan carrying the mediocre writing long enough for the series to find its footing.

Roy Thomas and Neal Adams (briefly Steranko) made a fantastic attempt at revitalizing the X-men comics but it was too little too late and the series was cancelled. When the series was restarted it was easier to bury the original because fans knew it had been cancelled as opposed to DD where the series survived long enough for Miller to come in. Early DD comics’ legitimacy was open to interpretation, while X-men seemed more cut and dry.

Also, let’s be honest here...Lee wasn’t doing his best work on DD but he wasn’t even phoning it in for X-Men. X-men was the nadir of his silver age career and interest was already dead when Thomas/Adams took over. I’m just glad that fans have rediscovered those later issues and appreciate them.

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>four more posts until the thread finally dies down
I'm gonna miss this thread

Reminder to the thread to read SA Thor, Spidey, FF and SHIELD

Those are required reading for any fan, that’s the bare minimum to appreciate SA Marvel.

There are still some people who haven't, and they should. I've branched out from those a little myself

I'll say you should read anything you can from the Silver Age and Bronze Age, you might get some surprises even from the not so popular titles

That’s true, this thread is nice because you can tell that most people have branched out. I mean...anyone that has read enough SA to find diamonds in the rough like DD and X-Men definitely knows their shit.

Bronze Age doesn’t get nearly enough praise, far too many people praise 60’s Marvel and then skip to the mid 80’s for some reason.

Yep, I have the first two Silver Age DD Epics myself, and the first old X-Men Masterworks with 1-10. It's still fun stuff

DD's benefit is definitely Wood redesigning him and Gene Colan doing art. As much as John Kricfalusi can be an asshole on his blog and did some really bad things, I appreciated the fact that he was praising Colan's work on Daredevil and Not Brand Ecch because that got me to look into it.