Why does Yea Forums hate this masterpiece?

Batman and Superman and the rest are just the current "srs bsnss" evolution of characters from the Charlton era and before. They don't belong with characters who are objectively not even "real" superheroes. Johns is doing exactly what Snyder did with the movie; changing Watchmen from a story about troubled people dressing up and playing at "heroes and villain", and turning it into a superhero genre piece.

The squid plan was simply taking human fear and paranoia and giving it a new fixation that didn't lead to committing mass-suicide. The nuclear standoff is what was stupid and pointless. Entire nations holding guns to one another's head, hoping no one flinches or slips.
You're simply too young to appreciate just how crazy and nerve-wracking this shit was in real life.

I wonder if it will read better when completed?

>Orange man -> Bad
>Woman -> Good

Why do you believe OP

Johns' mistake is believing that Rorschach can and should exist as a parallel to Batman;
Rorschach is a guy who strangles rapists and sets pedophiles on fire.
Batman is a guy who fights chicks who can cover the city in plant, villains who are made of clay or cryogenically mutated or crocodile-men. And that's just the relatively low-key stuff Batman does in his own series.

Instead of saying something interesting about Batman (who's really been explored about as far as it is able), he just ends up dragging the Watchmen characters down to Batman's level. All in the hopes of selling his reimagined versions of Punch and Judy or whatever.

That's Johns business model, polishing hoary old comic characters into something "new", with OC add-ons, for sweet movie residuals. He's become a less original Mark Millar, and they can both suck goats.

Anyone who leaps to the defense of Current President deserves to cook in his own juices while fighting in the desert for Greater Israel.

>unless you're horribly insecure
This is Yea Forums, 60% of the criticism comes from insecurity.
But that guy still has a point, there’s really nothing to be added to the story of Watchmen. I’m not going to pretend it’s some sacred text, nor will I refute your criticism that it was bad for the industry as a whole. But I need you to ask yourself; What is there to be gained from slipping it into the dcu? Less than nothing, it’s like dumping an unacclimated fish into a community tank, you’re just going to kill some fish.

In theory, you could make some statement with superman interacting with Dr Manhattan. It would only serve as an insular statement about the nature of capeshit, but it would be a statement. It’s not like Watchmen said much more than that.
But there’s so many better ways to say that, and every single one would be met with less resistance.

But I’m not even sure doomsday clock is trying to make that statement. I don’t know what it’s doing, it’s a badly told story, it meanders and stumbles all while reminding you of a better book. It only exists to be compared, the very nature of it is to be seen as inferior to Watchmen. Even if it was a goddamn masterpiece, better than Watchmen by tenfold, people would still hate it, because it is a bad idea. It is unnecessary and trite and nothing could save it from its own conception.
If Johns wanted to prove some greater point about optimism, diligence, and apathy he picked the wrong foundation. This feels like an unearned attack on Alan Moore the writer. It’s as if Johns is trying to personally take down this man’s opinions on capeshit. That’s autistic at best, but it’s objectively petty.

Doomsday clock’s biggest sin is existing. There is no way to write it’s concept onto paper that wouldn’t feel like an attack on an irrelevant old man who said something mean in an interview once.

Really, it smacks of trying to "soft-reboot" DC comics yet again.
The delays seem suspiciously like they are a delay to see if the DCEU actually pans out, which would result in more of it's flavor being incorporated into the final product.
That's just my take though.

I forgot the plot and dont even know how many Issues we‘re in anymore

Cause it sucks

Better Israel than Arabs

9 issues in
a conspiracy theory about superhumans being a government psyop is tearing apart the superhero community. Meanwhile, Ozymandias travels to the DC Universe in order to find doctor manhattan along with a new rorschach and a couple of criminals.
In a surprising twist of fate, Dr. Manhattan turns out to have absolutely nothing to do with the conspiracy at all and he's only staying in the dc universe because he suspects he will get killed by superman, so the two plots don't intersect at all and framing this as a crossover was completely pointless

>It’s as if Johns is trying to personally take down this man’s opinions on capeshit.

But Moore already did that himself with Tom Strong.

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Amerimutt war propaganda.
Genocide is in order.

>You end up with bullshit like Luthor laughing at Ozymandias' plan.
Johns' propensity for that shit is neurotic.

This page for example is just Johns attempting to very hamhandedly brag through Guy. Who literally stops their plans and any meaningful conversation to do just that, show and tell his action figures. Not to Jon or anyone around who asked or needs to see, but impressionable Feat fetish readers through the illusion of trying to talk down Jon through the scales and "stakes" the DCU has faced compared to smaller plots.

Because it's just dim ol' Guy it allows Johns to sweep any oddities of this under the character's flaws, which just happen to be servicing the writer's mouthpiece in this instance.

Except it's just baffling for two reasons despite that, see if Guy has no idea who Jon is then why show him this? Jon would have no idea who any of these images or events are. Guy could show Jon the Blue Man group and it'd be no less or more informative.

But even if Jon, by which I mean the reader, knew who these people were in any capacity there in lies the 2nd baffling aspect. What is being achieved telling him what he already knows? This isn't a Power Level thread on a discussion forum where after a few choice posts the opponent just has to concede defeat, if anything if Jon knew all this and is still intent on doing what he is, it means he doesn't give a shit, so it's a doubly useless effort.

Outside a Power Level thread on a forum, this display makes no fucking sense. It'd be like showing alien invaders a highlight reel of WWII.
OK?

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But I need you to ask yourself; What is there to be gained from slipping it into the dcu? Less than nothing, it’s like dumping an unacclimated fish into a community tank, you’re just going to kill some fish.
Ok sure, I agree with you there. No argument from me. To be frank, I got bored of the deconstruction trend and started just buying more Silver and Bronze Age capeshit. I enjoy it more
>If Johns wanted to prove some greater point about optimism, diligence, and apathy he picked the wrong foundation. This feels like an unearned attack on Alan Moore the writer. It’s as if Johns is trying to personally take down this man’s opinions on capeshit. That’s autistic at best, but it’s objectively petty.
I kind of agree but at every turn, Moore's work has been based around
>People should read darker and more mature superhero stories
>The industry should learn from me
>Wait, I didn't mean that
>Superhero stories are pathetic because they try too hard to be mature and lack the charm of the old stuff I also despise
>People shouldn't use old characters and try to use them as creatively as possible
>Hey, wasn't my version of Miracleman that had the subtext of being based on Captain Marvel (Billy) so great?
>Wasn't my Abin Sur fanfiction the best? I used him really well after he's been dead the Silver Age
Moore's opinions seem to change depending on whatever trend someone tells him is popular. I don't blame Johns if he wants to spite Moore and his fans who criticise a genre they don't engage with based on Moore's comments on the same genre he doesn't engage with
The format of a shitty Watchmen sequel was *not* the avenue to do this, sure, and it's horribly managed all the way through, as well as having a poorly paced plot. But to be frank, some kind of commentary was sorely needed to detach people from Watchmen instead of the stuff that made the genre what it is

Sequel to watchmen dr Manhattan may have created the DC universe

>masterpiece
Geoff, pls

Pretty much confirmed that he didn't, Jon says he travelled to the DC Universe hoping he would belong with the other superhumans, however he got a vision of superman killing him and since then he's been making slight alterations to the timeline trying to ensure his own survival
So he altered history a bit but he did not create the dcu

the mere fact that jon can now alter the future might be one of the top three biggest fucks you about this whole thing

Fuck off you dumb mutt, before 1947 America has ZERO enemies in the middle east. There's literally NO reason for "arabs" to hate a new world country aside from said country constant bombing and muder. Israel is American's most dangerous enemy and pro-war garbage like doomsday clock just helps rotten the brain of already ignorant americans

>I don't blame Johns if he wants to spite Moore and his fans who criticise a genre they don't engage with based on Moore's comments on the same genre he doesn't engage with
And this is going to make them engage with it? If anything it validates their choice to avoid capes.

Their decision was already based on an old man saying "I haven't read anything in the genre since the late 80s but it's all shit". No one wants them to take part, just to shut the fuck up about shit they barely know about

>They don't belong with characters who are objectively not even "real" superheroes.
What does this even mean? Is this the evolved form of “Hellboy isn’t Capeshit”?

Johns has never ever written an actual good book, only mediocre, bloated and forgettable capeshit

Geoff "I blame an old man for the reason I write such edgy stories" Johns

The it'd be just a forgettable shitty comic without any hook or relevance

>But the squid plan being stupid and pointless was the point of the ending
Of course, in the context of Watchmen. In the context of the DC universe where Starro is an actual thing, it isn't. Specially not from Luthor's perspective, who came with much more stupid plans in the past.
That's the problem you have with bringing Watchmen into the main DC universe, all of the characters become obsolete and pointless because you already have a shitload of superheroes running around.

It's because it wasn't really Moore's opinions on cape comics, but on what editors and fans wanted to turn cape comics into. The problem that instead of taking it as a satirical cautionary tale, they took it as an exemplary story and a template to follow.

"we ara called the "the new beatles" and we play covers, the thing is none of us knows the songs well enough, but please don't compare us to the beatles".

This page is embarrassingly bad. It's not charming like a little kid playing adult but cringey like a teenager trying to pull it off.

>That's the problem you have with bringing Watchmen into the main DC universe, all of the characters become obsolete and pointless because you already have a shitload of superheroes running around.
I liked that in During Morrison's return of bruce wayne, at the end of the universe and tine, when everything was lost and only batman standed in front of the hyperfauna he was facing defeat, everything was going to shit, so what does batman do? he goes back in time so the "end of the universe monster" becomes just another enemy for the league to defeat.
Except that didn't really happened. Watchmen didn't gave us the edgy years. Watchmen gave us doom patrol and sandman, not youngblood or spawn. Edgy shit was a sign of the times

I just want Superman to beat up Dr. Manhattan, gibs me da feats, that is all.

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>Moore's opinions seem to change depending on whatever trend someone tells him is popular. I don't blame Johns if he wants to spite Moore and his fans who criticise a genre they don't engage with based on Moore's comments on the same genre he doesn't engage with
You're giving too much credit to Johns and making up your own version of Moore. Moore never said people should read darker and more mature superhero stories, but that superhero stories can't really stand to be dark and mature or you end up with a bunch of dysfunctional assholes like in Watchmen. He wanted people to let go of their childhood toys for the kids to enjoy and move on to reading other type of stories. What both Miracleman and Watchmen show is that if you make the characters grow but not mature out of their simplistic superhero outlook, they don't turn out well, and therefore, neither do the people who can't grow out of superhero comics.
Of course, that doesn't mean an adult can't read or enjoy superhero comics, as long as he understands and respects what they are and doesn't try to force them into something they're not, which is what Moore himself did with his superhero comics after that.
He has said himself that his dark comics from the 80s had a lot to do with the discontent he held with how things were in the comic book industry and the world as a whole back then, but once he got it out of his system he moved on from it, only to see American comics dwell on it for years and years.

but edgy shit as you call it didnt become a standard, watchmen did and not because it was edgy, it did because back then everyone was parroting how it was serious, groundbreaking narrative, so much better compared to childrens comic books, the geeks desire to be taken seriously and be accepted as an adult without having to cut ties with their infant sides its what pushes this "adult superhero media" nonsense

>Watchmen didn't gave us the edgy years
Again, Watchmen worked as a template and an example to follow, but that doesn't mean it's the big baddy that started all from nothing. People catched onto it because it clicked with the zeitgeist. But as you said, people saying Watchmen ruined comics is stupid because Moore influence on mainstream American comics resulted in some of the best products in many decades that became timeless classics, like the ones you mentioned.
And I'm just mentioned Watchmen because that's what this thread is about, but TDKR was a major influence as well.

But it doesn't have to exist, the only reason it does is to fuck with Moore.

did not need a prequel but that didin't stop dc.

How will Gokeks ever recover

>unessacary
Jesus christ