But other countries keep traditional animation alive?
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Why did America give up on 2D animated movies?
Luke Long
Hudson Lewis
Short story: Disney Willed it.
Long story: Someone within Disney willed it and now the decision is hard to override because there just isn't the upper-echelon talent anymore (there's only one even touching the old masters and he's selling himself out for 5-second CN clips).
Longer story: People just don't want to do work they feel could be automated anymore. And to many people, that's how 2D animation feels. Most people still in the biz have an affectation for it. Few people appreciate the true fluency and aesthetic value of 2D.
First two are true, third is bullshit.
Henry Phillips
Because people over here are too lazy to draw anything beyond animatics when they could make a 3D model or Flash puppet and use it ad infinitum.
Jason Gomez
Slaves aren't paid wages. Much less 40k a year.
Not to undermine how many hours eastern animators are forced to work, but let's not ignore the absolutely ridiculous wages that western unions try to force on the industry in direct contrast to all the young aspiring animators who want to get paid to do this but can't because no one can afford them. (A free market oxymoron if I've ever heard one).
Lincoln Scott
3D is cheaper and more profitable. If you don't believe me go to Walmart or some other store and see how many direct to video kids movies there are and how many of them are 3D. You have studios come out of nowhere and spend most of their money on celebrities that need a paycheck so they can sell it to clueless parents and grandparents wanting something to keep the kids entertained.
Jonathan Moore
>ridiculous wages that western unions try to force on the industry
Oh no, not the multi-billion dollar industry! Those damn unions trying to get as much money and benefits for those greedy animators! If only things could be like the games industry. Now there's an industry that knows how to treat their workers!
Bentley Bailey
Except that kind of ignores that overall labor costs are just much lower in these countries allowing them to out out-compete American studios, unions or no unions. If American animator wages were en par to that in these countries, you would instead have an exodus of talent like we have seen in some of these SEA countries when studios tried to drive labor costs even lower.
Ayden Nelson
There should be a studio here that does for hand-drawn what Laika does for stop-motion.
Brandon Young
Because Western cartoons are marketed solely to kids and they don't give a fuck about quality products.
Charles Lopez
can't they do the same shit studios like Ufotable (2.5D animation fucking hacks) do but miles better with the huge resources they have?
John Hall
The animated looks gorgeous but the nigger ruined it for me.
Landon Long
Couple of reasons
1) 3d animated movies making a huge amount of money + being positively received while at the same time a bunch of 2d movies did really poorly. The lesson executives took away from this was that audiences no longer wanted to watch 2d films.
2) It's relatively easy to massively rework 3d animated film relatively late into production. (eg Frozen, Brave). From a business perspective this has a whole lot of advantages, even if 3d isn't strictly cheaper to produce.
3) After not making 2d films for years the big studios have lost a whole lot of the people who had experience making them. This means it would be much harder to start making them again without those peoples institutional knowledge.
4) America doesn't have the subsidies floating around to support smaller art-for-arts-sake animated films, and this is where most traditional film animation happens these days (in Europe).
Robert Brooks
>3)...
>4)...
That’s a tragedy. There should be a way to somehow fund 2D animation using tax money like with PBS or something.
Lucas Diaz
Racism doesn't belong on Yea Forums. plz go
Xavier Barnes
Because of Toy Story and Shrek
James Myers
What a bummer
Kayden Turner
Who is that one you are referring to?
Jeremiah Jenkins
That also makes it near impossible for small studios to open up.
I was ready a few years back, and even raised enough to get 50 stations (animation desk’s plus computers, Cintiqs), and all the other necessary tools, as well as a building and $600,000 in liquid cash.
In California, that’ll get you 1.5 episodes of a standard cartoon....
Ayden Morgan
A well crafted 2D animation needs an insane amount of talent, effort, inspiration and man hours, while at the same time, in the west, it will be always locked into a "kid's entertainment" or "raunchy """adult""" entertainment".
Plus the money reasons - there would have to be whole new system of production and monetization in order for the American 2D animation to be trully great (Netflix could become that in the future, if some trully inspired artists come out and try to use it to push the industry forward)
Japs are willing to do extra work and do their best because they know that they will get to work on something great or at least just really good (Japan has of course it's own portion of shitty cartoons, but the overall output is so large that it would be impossible to not have those. Every single year Japan still brings us about 3-5 amazing cartoons and 10+ great ones)
Isaac Parker
>but let's not ignore the absolutely ridiculous wages that western unions try to force on the industry
Why shouldn't it ignore it? It's meaningless. In order for western animators to compete with eastern ones they'd have to be working what is essentially wage. That pushes talent out the door just as much as unemployability.
Sebastian Price
essentially minimum wage*
Ryan Davis
Maybe business models that require third-world conditions for workers shouldn't be operating in the first world. Japan has the same problem, but it's progressed to the point that the local labor force is dying out because the studios don't pay them enough to survive and they have to take other jobs.
Luis Hill
A small studio with 50 stations?
Do you know what small means? There are individuals that produce short alone. A 5-10 persons team is a small.
Ethan Ramirez
>The lesson executives took away from this was that audiences no longer wanted to watch 2d films.
You know the worse? It became reality.
Making only 3d animated movies for 15 years created a generation that doesn't enjoy 2d. Kids prefer the new Jungle Book to the old one.
Jose Jones
Because people stopped going to see them, so they weren't making enough money for it to profitable enough to sustain their animation. Blame your parents and yourselves at the time
Camden Bell
>other countries
Because in those country, including japan, they can just pay animators bare minimum and force them to work like slaves. And if they pass out or die, they have few thousands dying to get into industry so no worries.
Connor Ramirez
does France really have this problem? most animated films coming from them are experimental indie films. they also don't release much films in one year unlike Japan and burgerland
Landon Rogers
Samuel Walker
Most likely Micheal Eisner. He was the one pushing for 3D animation and the death of hand drawn in the mid 2000s. Bob Igar must of been following suit to Eisner, since he used to work under him back in 2000s as COO.
Julian Martinez
In France they subsidize the Arts.
In Murrica we subsidize preacher's $5,000 sneakers and private jet fleet.
Justin Anderson
>California
Found your problem
Thomas Mitchell
Jeez, that looks fucking incredible. I'd actually watch that one on the big screen if I'd actually pay for animated movies. As to your question, western animation is shit because studios don't like to put in real effort
Caleb Walker
>I'd actually watch that one on the big screen if I'd actually pay for animated movies
"I don't pay to enjoy art, but studios should put more effort into it anyway!"
Pretty well sums it up.
Cameron Peterson
Yeah, I'm a hypocrite when it comes to that. I mean I definitely don't support western animated movies because they put in next to zero effort but I just don't go to see anime in the theater because I don't have anyone who would go with me. And I definitely don't buy the DVDs or Blurays because here in Germany, the prices are through the roof. 20-25€ for a simple DVD? Hell no
Thomas Carter
Key animators and in-betweeners don't make the same amount. Shows and movies don't pay the same amount. Different studios don't pay the same amount. There is no slavery in Japan.
Kyoto Animation has salaried employees with higher than average pay and their budgets are still lower than in America. Ghibli had salaried employees with higher than average pay and their budgets were lower than in America. The average TV anime would have to increase its budget by at least three times to reach American levels, and at that point even the in-betweeners would be getting reasonable pay. American productions probably don't pay Koreans a lot so they're already working with cheap labor.
>And if they pass out or die, they have few thousands dying to get into industry so no worries.
The industry has a lack of skilled animators.
Noah Hall
Those are exceptions to the rule. The average ones are low paid slaves.
>The study reports that animators earned an average of 3.3283 million yen (about US$27,689) in Japan in 2013. The mode result for yearly income in 2013 was 4.0 million yen (US$33,000).
>The study's results gained attention on the Internet when NHK News reported part of the study's results on April 29. NHK News reported that young animators work an average of 11 hours every day, and in-between (dōga) animators — many of whom are in their 20s — earn a yearly income of around 1.1 million yen (around US$9,200). The in-between animator is the entry-level position in the anime industry, and this income average does not include animators in higher positions or with more experience.
>Directors and chief animation directors, the highest earners on the chart, earned an average of 6.486 million yen (US$53,960) and 5.638 million yen (US$46,900), respectively.
Christian Cruz
They are exceptions but the point is that they still spend less money than Americans.
Owen Morris
Benjamin Clark
The emtirety of Yea Forums is 99.999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% racist. How blind can you be to ignore it?
Cooper Garcia
Does Cartoon Network and Nickelodeon even do proper cartoons anymore. Here is Australia the stuff we get from America are meme shows like Adventure Time and random edgy "adult" comedies. Fuck these shows, is there some "smart" artistic humor I'm missing? Does noone do story type cartoons anymore?
Angel Cruz
Sadly no
Josiah Roberts
Why do Americans spend so much money making animated movies?
Carter Campbell
I have no idea. Some have said it's unions or living expenses but live action movies seem relatively cheap compared to animation. Inception was only marginally more expensive than the average Disney movie and BR 2049 may have cost about the same. And both of those are much longer too.
Ethan Myers
>Every single year Japan still brings us about 3-5 amazing cartoons and 10+ great ones
imagine an actual person typing this out with a straight face. the only variable you lack to rectify is how fast this shit gets spat out. new cartoons appear like once a year and could go on to air for the next 5-6 years if it did well. anime is no where near that unless its a stupidly popular item. this shit gets spat out in huge batches once every 4 months and usually ends in those 4 months.
>10+ greats shows
no fuck off. 5-6 shows of actual quality and not just retarded hash of checklisting with the same elements story, sound design, background, hell even character design etc etc.
I know you are going to lash at me and list the things you "think" were "great" that came out in the time span of mid 2018- mid 2019 from the image you posted you better not disappoint me
Brody Flores
>A boy falls in love with a girl.
Unable to confess, he is gifted with by a deus ex machina with the girl's phone number. Never minding the strange area code, he immediately calls her, and is overjoyed to find out that she has a crush on him as well.
But, the next day, when he recounts the previous day's confessions to the girl, she only looks at him with a perplexed expression. After some investigation, he finds out that the girl he called is not the same girl he fell in love with. In fact, she doesn't exist in this universe at all. She is the girl's alternate universe counterpart, who has fallen in love with the MC's own AU self, who too is blissfully unaware of her crush.
Hijinks ensue as the two strike up a deal to give each other their darkest, most private secrets in order to equip the other with the weapons they need to conquer the heart of their other selves. While the two chase their respective loved ones, DRAMA ensues as they begin to fall in love with each other instead and question the NATURE of LOVE (15)
That 3 story short they did will be better anything they will ever produce simply because its not the same fucking story over and over again.
Noah Thomas
The second part is absolute bullshit and wages were literally suppressed by Disney, sony and dreamworks in a massive international scheme that no one cares about. Google that one before you call me a conspirtard.