Why writers love to have the Bat-Family constantly shitting on Batman?

It seems like Batman just doesn't trust then

Chuck Dixon.
He could only write Nightwing being his own man pitching him in direct opposition against Batman.

That's Batman's own fault.

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Trust is a two way street, no body trust each other

Written by Scott Lobdell in a Red Hood centric comic.

Superheroes are soap operas.

That's still Batman's fault, for not installing trust into the relationship.

Writers need to write about a certain Bat-Something character, but don't know how to make them their own character without pitting them against Batman. So Batman ends up becoming the Bat-Family antagonist. He's constantly wrong and cruel about everything, and is in need to be taught a lesson. By all of them. Over and over again. Because otherwise they can't be their own man and/or woman nor strike on their own.

It's just the logical extension of the "modern" take on Batman. If your Batman is in canon an emotionally stunted hyper autist control freak then this is how the people who know him best would approach him. Modern Batman isn't a good guy.
Oh, and before I forget; Fuck you Tom King

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>Oh, and before I forget; Fuck you Tom King
Why Batfags gotta be so autistic.

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For Nightwing, Red Hood, Batgirl, Red Robin, Spoiler, Robin (Damian Wayne), and so on to be proper heroes on their own right they need to first fight back against Batman who's overshadowing them..

Because Batman is kind of a massive, psychotic chode.

Aren't they all, though? They all do the same things Batman does.

batman is an asshole

Boss does not equal leader.
Fuck Batman.

The only ones as socially imbalanced and emotionally stunted as Bruce are Damian, Cassandra and maybe Jason, and that last one is 90% Bruce's fault.

THE BAT-FAMILY IS A FUCKING CANCER THAT HAS BEEN ROBBING BATMAN OF ALL HIS CHARM AND HEROISM.

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It is the only story they can write

Batman is still a hero.

They all do the same things as him. Everything else is nothing but pandering bullshit.

Because since they were little Kids he taught them that.

Barely.

Wasn't he supposed to be the leader?

>chomp chomp
They don't make em like they used to

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Hate your boss? Quit the goddamn job.

What?

Just came here to say King is a fucking hack who hasn’t written anything good since the War of Jokes and Riddles arc.

>not understanding it

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>Bruce punches all of his friends and family in the face

I dunno, man.

The batfamily just needs to be slimmed down a little bit and they need to actually be like a family. I would love to see them get together and work and support each other.

>Red Robin
such a bad fucking name

>Batman is still a hero.
No one seems to think of him that way nowadays

Bruce is verifiably insane. They're just doing what needs to be done.

You'd think that at some point the writers would start writing Batman as anything other than a crazy control freak that no one likes.

>Batman is still a hero.
Brother Eye.

>T - Tom King

To portray him as cold and calculative

Batman isn't allowed to be cool anymore. He's often now portayed as a villain in his own mythos for using violence in his vigilantism. He's the butt of jokes by his peers because he's "too serious". He's made into an antagonistic authority figure in every single Batfamily sister book. His personality as Bruce Wayne has been completely removed in favor of being super grumpy and arrogant at literally all times. He's been made socially inept to degree even worse than autism.

All he has left is his high level of competence, which is often also construed into a negative aspect. DC has over the course of the past few decades attempted to completely run this character into the ground.

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because he's an asshole.

it's really not that complicated.

This

Except he's not even written as competent anymore. We're TOLD he's smart but when was the last time he was WRITTEN as smart? His 'prep time' plans really aren't all that impressive, we never see him in a lab, looking at a crime scene or even using deduction...and when was the last time ANYBODY was actually SCARED of Batman? He was supposed to be the boogieman of crime but now he's just "A freak in a cape." even to thugs & goons who are more likely to roll their eyes when he shows up as if he's more of a nuisance than a threat...hell I'd be more afraid of trigger happy Gotham cops than what Batman is now in the comics.

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>we never see him in a lab, looking at a crime scene
There was a nice bit in a book that came out this week that had him in a lab dissecting dozens of dead bats in an attempt to find out how they died

After years of wank and making other heroes look like shit for his sake, he deserves way worse. Fuck Batman.

>Supercuckfag

well.... just from a practical standpoint, its hard to write a super intelligent character with masterful nuanced and plotted out keikaku plans as a writer, its the kind of things serious criminal novel writers have to be good at but its not suited for comics and the timeframes they work on.

Isn't it what pretty much all of the Robins did?

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This, desu.

>but its not suited for comics and the timeframes they work on
If Chick Dixon's fat ass can cram Batman building back-up batcaves into his canon there's no excuse for anybody else. Making excuses for bad writers is what got us here today and I'm not going to stop asking for competence in exchange for my money.

A-FUCKING-men user...

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Damian and Tim ruined the dynamic of the family, even though I think they're great characters at this point. Beforehand, Bruce gathered around him broken boys and girls to make them better. Then in comes Damian who is made for the mantle.
Cass should have never been shoved aside as she is now. It should have been a continuing escalation of Bruce taking in increasingly broken children in a desperate attempt to fix them, and every time he succeeds it's proof Batman is a good guy who wants to help people.

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If Batman is insane, the entire Bat-Family, nay the entire DCU is insane as well.

>brother eye
Isn't even canon anymore.

What's up with the persecution complex? Batman fights villains and saves people, he's still the paragon he always.

Batman isn't TOLD to be competent and smart anymore. Every time they show that he has some back-up plan it is portrayed in a negative light to showcase that's untrustworthy and manipulative, and everyone of his years-old carefully plotted back-up plans are rendered moot or turned against him and his allies, to show the hubris of his arrogance and fucked-up ways. Then every one of his allies rightfully shits on him.
Even Batman being a competent fighter has been slowly desconstructed over the years with now Catwoman being better than him in every way in Tom King's run.

Just more persecution complex from autistic Batfags. What more do you want? Is him being the mascot for DC not enough you, he has to be literally flawless just so you can jerk off or something?

Batman doesn't save people nowadays, though. Batman is portrayed as a broken man and ineffectual hero who can't save anyone and always makes things worse.

>Every time they show that he has some back-up plan it is portrayed in a negative light to showcase that's untrustworthy and manipulative
>every time
You see the problem with this type of logic right?

Tell me one recent arc where one of Batman's back-up plans helped save the day and was the right move.

>Batman doesn't save people nowadays
He does though, you can whine all you want but you cannot whine away observable facts. He saves people, he saved francine langstorm just last issue.

But Batman needs to be sad all the time /s

In all seriousness if DC wants him to be sad, the only way to make that happen is to have this shitty relationship with his family. Having good family relationships while crying all the time just makes him a whiny pathetic loser. Hence Tom King

Tell me of a recent arc where it wasn't.

He doesn't have a shitty relationship with his family though...
Honestly, what do you guys actually a good relationship looks like?

There is none. None of Batman's back-up plans nowadays work. They're just excuses for the villains to have a trump card against the heroes.

He’s right tho. DC has been gasping for breath over the past decade because they spent all their effort propping up Batman instead of building a well structured diverse universe like Marvel. It’s hard to take anything they do with any weight when we know Batman will somehow be involved and save the day

why does tim still have this shit outfit

Why are Batman fans the most entitled fuckers around?
>abloo abloo my character is literally the most used DC character ever with literally hundreds of comic book titles to his name
>abloo abloo DC pushes him to the front and give him the spotlight at every given possible moment
>abloo abloo he's unquestionably the leader of the justice league in multiple mediums

At one point he disguised himself as a bad guy and started "testing" himself against various members of the bat-family.

I can't remember if it was Dick or Tim but they saw right through that shit and realized it was Bruce's way of being "in control"

He's a bit of a dick like that.

>They're just excuses for the villains to have a trump card against the heroes.
This happened literally once and Batfags still haven't gotten over it.

That's an old pic but she's pushing 40, think about that for a second

They also whine how there “finally” is a live action Batman—-nevermind there has literally been at least 10.

Meanwhile other characters have to have people annoy WB/DC to give them pocket change to produce their live action appearances.

Batfags are entitled shits who likely ruined DC comics for the foreseeable future

Batman just had a crossover event that placed him at the center of the multiverse but these assholes still whine about DC hating Batman.
They hate Batman so much they made him the biggest DC franchise.

Batman sells, just like Wolverine or Deadpool sells, but no Marvelfag would lie and say that all of Wolverine and Deadpool publishing history is great.

you act like any of that is a good thing

You mean an event where Batman shuns everyone's help, does things his way because he thinks will be best, plays into the villains' hands, dooms the whole fucking world in the process thanks to his hubris, and then several evil Batmen start to fuck things around while Batman literally gives up on himself in a dark dimension before being bailed out by Superman?

You mean that event? Wow, Batman sure is awesome.

Still would fuck and marry her.

It really does feel like more and more writers write Batman as a villain, like that quote that goes something like "the path to villainy is paved with good intentions", Batman is still shown to be trying to do the good thing but more often than not it makes him come of as an obsessive psychopath doing evil things without realizing it

>It’s hard to take anything they do with any weight when we know Batman will somehow be involved and save the day
When was the last time Batman saved the day.

Thanks for reminding me that the batman who laughs actually exists. What a great addition to the dc universe.

>Batman just had a crossover event that placed him at the center of the multiverse
Said event was literally about how our Batman played into the hand of alternate versions of Batman and therefore doomed the whole multiverse.
And it was all Batman's fault.

>You mean an event where Batman shuns everyone's help, does things his way because he thinks will be best, plays into the villains' hands, dooms the whole fucking world in the process thanks to his hubris, and then several evil Batmen start to fuck things around while Batman literally gives up on himself in a dark dimension before being bailed out by Superman?
No I mean the fucking event where he's the fucking main character and where he saves the fucking MULTIVERSE.
>being bailed out by Superman?
Oh how AWFUL, Batman being helped by Superman. There's no coming back from that you pieces of entitled shits I cannot even believe you fuckers.

It’s was Batman’s fault because he’s the strongest baddest thing in the universe. Literally they made him the most powerful being in the multiverse and you fags still cry about DC hating Batman.

If DC hated Batman, he’d be given the good ol Wonder Woman treatment. Ignored and constantly rewritten until convenient

I really hate how the entire "revolving door" thing has been inextricably linked to batman.

Honestly, when was the last time Batman unironically saved the day and it was shown in a positive light?

I think it was right before the end of Grant Morrison's Batman and Robin. I think that was it. Even though Batman was being manipulated by Darkseid/Hyper-Adapter and almost blew the multiverse.

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Batman didn't save the multiverse, Batman DOOMED the multiverse. Superman and, specially, Wonder Woman were the ones to save the multiverse. Did you even read the story?

>It’s was Batman’s fault because he’s the strongest baddest thing in the universe. Literally they made him the most powerful being in the multiverse and you fags still cry about DC hating Batman.
Wanna know how i know that you're a butthurt Superman fanboy obsessed about power-levels?

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They sell but Marvel doesn’t feel the need to oversaturate their lineup with constant elseworlds and spin offs or—outside of a few jokey runs—-the almighty beings of their stories the way DC does with Batman

>Said event was literally about how our Batman played into the hand of alternate versions of Batman and therefore doomed the whole multiverse.
IT'S STILL BATWANK YOU MORON. THE MULTIVERSE REVOLVES AROUND BATMAN.
it's BATMAN who gets the focus, the entire DC universe revolves around Batman.

Nigga, you for real? Deadpool is constantly getting ongoings, minis, one-shots and Elseworlds-type of stories where he literally kills the entire MCU.

A typical Batfag response when they don’t have an argument. Good on you to assume. But you’d be woefully wrong.

You're the fucker who is whining about DC hating Batman, nothing you're saying actually connects with reality

>Batman DOOMED the multiverse
Multiple Batmen in fact

Because Batman is a terrible character and only children like him because they don’t understand how crappy his character is when you give 2 minutes of thought on what he’s actually doing to Gotham

>IT'S STILL BATWANK YOU MORON. THE MULTIVERSE REVOLVES AROUND BATMAN.
I think i didn't read the comic where Batman saves the DC multiverse by piloting a giant mecha bigger than the multiverse that was built in his image by the original Monitor, because it is his destiny to always protect the multiverse.

Are those taken seriously or considered legitimate canon? Last I checked no.

We're talking about DC continually portraying Batman in a bad light, which is true, You're whining about powerlevels in a medium where such concept is fucking meaningless.

Because Bruce an autistic man child who dresses up at night as his childhood fear in a constant bid to try to relive his parent’s death and gain some semblance of control by fighting criminals?
Are you telling me someone who does that has the emotional maturity to be an adult?
Being emotionally stunted is kind of an integral part of Batman since his social skills are entirely practiced and for show as Bruce Wayne. Outside of Hush, it’s suggested he didn’t even really have that solid of social skills as a child

This isn't about the multiverse revolving around Batman or him being the most powerful, it's about writers making him be the one that starts every single major problem and doing more bad than good in general

>Batman didn't save the multiverse,
Yes he FUCKING did.
>Superman and, specially, Wonder Woman were the ones to save the multiverse.
THE FOCUS IS ON BATMAN THE ENTIRE EVENT.
It's literally called Dark Night, like The Dark Knight. It is so blatantly Batwank.

Yes, they are. Specially the Wolverine's ones.

Does Batman ever suffer consequences of that? No. The Justice League bitches a bit but goes right back to following every one of his orders.

>"outside of a few jokey runs"
user, can you read?

Batman didn't save the multiverse. Superman and Wonder Woman did, while the rest of the JL backed them up. Batman was the one being rescued after dooming everyone and everything with his half-cooked plans that backfired.
Oh, wow. One event centered on Batman. This after several that has been centered on the other JL characters.

Every Deadpool run has comedy in them, but they still matter to continuity and still affect other characters. The newest Spider-Man and Deadpool ongoing is being huge to the Spider-Man mythos, for example.

>This isn't about the multiverse revolving around Batman or him being the most powerful
Yes it is, when Snyder makes a concept that is entirely a Batman concept to be multiversal concept then he is making the entire DC comics revolve around Batman.
HE DRAGGED SANDMAN INTO HIS SHITTY BATWANK EVENT FOR FUCK'S SAKE.

You do know you can apply that to EVERY FUCKING HUMAN CAPE CHARACTER IN THIS FUCKING DUMB GENRE, right? They all dress up in colorful costumes and risk their lives on a daily basis to catch criminals. Every single one of them. But Batman is the only one portrayed as crazy for it.

>One event centered on Batman.
THAT MADE HIM THE CENTER OF THE FUCKING MULTIVERSE. Snyder made another multiverse just so Batman can be the most important person ever.

You crying like a little bitch because DC decided to make a big event centered on Batman. Think about this.
Did you cry when Flashpoint happened and it was centered on the Flash?
When Thrones of Atlantis or Drowned Earth happened and it was centered on Aquaman?
Or when Infinite Crisis, Final Crisis, and Multiversity happened and it was centered on how important Superman is as a whole?
Or when Darkseid War happened and most of the focus was on Wonder Woman while Darkseid and the fucking Anti-Monitor fight off-panel?
Or when Blackest Night happened and it was centered on Green Lantern?

But one event was centered on how ineffectual and evil Batman can be and you cry because of it. think about it.

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Not user but your complaining about batwank and he's complaining about the state of batwank, would you really be satisfied if other user was satisfied by snyder's shitty batwank? Of course not, you'd complain about batwank being inherently shitty and use snyder as an example. You're being disingenuous.

>Did you cry when Flashpoint happened and it was centered on the Flash?
Not the user you're arguing with but... Flashpoint had a big focus on Batman, albeit an alternate one. Just sayin'.

>Yes it is
Maybe for you, but not for me, this is about Batman being demonized and written as if he's fucking hitler.
Batman being the most important person isn't a good thing if he's treated as a villain.

Yeah, a Dark Universe where the fears of the people in the normal universe are given form and life, and because Batman is the most paranoid person in the DCU his fears ended up being used as a weapon.

>Final Crisis
Didn't Batman kill Darkseid there?

And Aquaman and Wonder Woman, and Cyborg, and Captain Marvel... that's how it is with these big events. Some of it are dedicated to other characters. Barry was still the main star.

It's not about, it's about entitled Batfags who think DC hates Batman. If you honestly think this then you need to fuck off and die.

Yeah, but it's stated that without Batman Cyborg's team has no chance, it's shown that without Batman's help the Flash can't even get his powers and, jesus, Batman stops Thawne in it.

It's cause writers always make him out as this tortured soul that has to be Batman or else he won't have a reason to live. For once I'd like to see them actually fucking focus on some of the positive parts of his life.

He just shot an already dying man. The rest of the League still had to fuck Darkseid up.

No, he poisoned Darkseid's essence weakening him. Barry and Wally then killed his connection to Dan Turpin's body by bringing the Death Racer together with him. Then Wonder Woman tied the weakened and bodyless essence, so Darkseid wouldn't.... fly away like a ghost. Then Superman sang that essence away destroying it.

>this is about Batman being demonized and written as if he's fucking hitler.
Literally never fucking happened shit for brains see

Batman and the Bat-Family bring the normie bucks, but it is pretty clear that writers have issues with Batman. Specially Bat-Family fanboy writers.

>You crying like a little bitch because DC decided to make a big event centered on Batman.
It's not about Batman asshole, it's about you and how it's never enough for you Batfags.
It's not enough that he is the most popular DC character.
It's not enough that he is a pop cultural icon.
It's not enough that every other thing is about Batman.
You cunts have the fucking audacity to say DC and writers hate Batman?
Get fucked.

Just because Batman isn't jailed for it that doesn't mean he wasn't the fucking culprit. That's like saying that Lex Luthor isn't a villain because we rarely see him doing time.

Batman being popular and in the forefront is because he's profitable. That's it. There's no other answer for it. Normies like him. As long as he's selling, DC will keep on publishing him. When Green Lantern Corps was the hottest shit around town during Geoff Johns run DC did everything to push and promote the franchise. Fuck, they made the Green Lantern movie and was going to center their cinematic universe on it.

>Just because Batman isn't jailed for it that doesn't mean he wasn't the fucking culprit.
Show me Where people are treating Batman like fucking hitler. Show me anywhere Batman is suffering consequences from the event. Because Last time I checked he was making quips in Snyder's justice league.

Just because Batman has been shown suffering the consequences that doesn't mean that he wasn't in the wrong. If anything, it just make things more shitty because we never see Batman learning from his mistakes. It's a fucking cycle. Writers have him behave like an asshole and dooming everyone with his stupid plans, tons of people die because of it, the other characters save the day, and Batman never get his due. Rinse ans repeat.

You're not getting it are you?
It's not about Batman being popular, it's how you assholes have no fucking right to complain about DC treating him badly.
Batman is not the problem, you are.

>Just because Batman hasn't been shown suffering the consequences that doesn't mean that he wasn't in the wrong.
Yes it does, yes it fucking does.

No, we've the right to complain. Fuck you. I don't need to accept DC shitting on the character just because they publish 2+ ongoings where he's constantly shat on. Who the fuck would be okay with it?
That's like saying that Superman fans should be okay with Bendis shitting on Superman because they've Superman and Action Comics to themselves, and soon will have a huge event called Leviathan centered on Superman. Where Superman will be shat on some more and literally go on disguise as a black man because Bendis can't stop dreaming about being railed by Luke Cage.

Not that poster but if you don't like the way a character is being portrayed you should be able to complain about it.

Bruce sucks

You're an idiot.

You’re missing the motivation though
Superman saves people cause it’s the right thing to do
As does Wonder Woman
They don’t do it because of deep seated mommy and daddy issues.
On one level, this is why people really like Bruce as a hero, it gives him a more obvious layer of complexity but it also makes him damaged and obsessed in a much more self-centered way

>don't need to accept DC shitting on the character
>DC shitting on the character
You assholes don't even know what that means.

What happened to Tim after fighting his older self? I know dick is in titans, jason is the sole outlaw, and damian has the new teen titans but I lost track of Tim.

But Batman is not the only character motivated by loss.

Because it’s kind of weird for a non-super person to spend their entire adult life trying to become super themselves to do that shit
Most of the other characters end up with their powers and decide to use them for good after the fact, Bruce is the only one who went out of his way to acquire the tools that would allow him, personally, to go out and fight crime.
Lots of stories try to justify this by saying that Gotham is just too corrupt and hiring someone else or a team to clean up the city would just not be doable.

>They don’t do it because of deep seated mommy and daddy issues.
Geoff Johns retconned Barry Allen so his entire motivation would be to clear his dad's name and eventually save his mother's from death. I don't see people calling him damaged and obsessed despite Johns portraying him as a loner who didn't had a life of his own other than working on cases and cold cases, always being the first come and the last to leave work.

He is, however, the only one who went out of his way to gain the tools and training to become a crime fighter as a result of that loss
If you consider how much of Bruce’s life is defined by his loss, it’s at a much greater scope than other heroes who pick up the mantle after they already had their powers

Fucking Green Arrow. What now?

I believe he's on Bendis's young justice

What would you call King and Tomasi's current run? Tomasi literally went "BAT MAN BAD" in Batman's huge landmark issue. He and Doughke even joked about it how good it felt to portray Superman as this big hero in Action Comics #1000 and then go and portray Batman as a monster in Detective Comics #1000.

Huntress
Katanna
Black Lightning
Inigo Montoya

>Tomasi literally went "BAT MAN BAD" in Batman's huge landmark issue
No, the Supervillain did.

HEs also an autistic manchild

And the supervillains feel justified. Just like they did in Tynion past run. Or Tomasi Batman and Robin run. And so on and so forth. The villains are always portrayed as brutalized victims and Batman is always portrayed as a misguided man who's doing more harm than good. And Gotham is always portrayed as a shitty place locked in a constant cycle of tragedy. Batman possibly being the main responsible.

Well they really ought to have because that sounds pretty similar to Batman at that point
Batman gets it toughest because he’s popular but I’d completely agree that that version of Barry allen is as much of an autistic emotionally stunted child as Bruce

Just checked the first chapter. This part of rebirth or alternate continuity? Tim looks alot younger. Bendis did an alright job with YJ#1, but that Naomi preview was fucking awful.

That's still Tomasi's writing, dumb dumb.

Yeah I'm not really sure, I only read a couple issues for Jenny Hex.

>And the supervillains feel justified.
They always do.
>That's still Tomasi's writing, dumb dumb.
Doesn't mean it's his true opinion.

I mean... he is a 40 year old living in his parent's basement.

It was pretty jarring. Johns portrayed Barry as this pitiful person that was always riddled with random and nonsensical tragedy perpetrated by Reverse Flash - like leaving the house''s door opened so Barry's dog would be ran over by a car (can't have Barry with his new puppy). So he grew up without friends and obsessed with clearing his father's name, who was seen as a monster by everyone. He never interacted with anyone at work. His boss also hated him because he'd always slow down investigations by being ultra meticulous with the evidence. Barry's life was sorely dedicated on clearing cases and finding the true killer of his mother. He'd be the first at work and the last at work. People would joke that he lived at work.
Johns even had that Iris initially had no romantic interest on Barry. She just used him as a source to get scoops on cases. He was gullible enough to always run his mouth. Then there's the part where Barry's mom was indeed cheating on his father, so that made things harder to clear his father's name.

But hey, despite all of that Barry's still seen as the well-adjusted and fun guy.

Well, ever since Flashpoint everything Barry does just makes EVERYTHING worse. He's always pushing his family away, creating his own villains by ruining the lives of people, and making a mess out of things with his intention to "fix" things.

So i guess Barry Allen did indeed become like Batman. Because that's Batman's MO. Ironically enough, they're always teaming up now as well.

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Pictured: two assholes.

kept reading Bendis can't write for shit, he's going through this way too quickly I was excited to see the reunion, I was expecting something like barry and wally west but I was disappointed with how quick it was. Like this was the first time Tim Cassie Bart and Conner are together in a long time, and it came by like it was nothing. I'm pretty sure this is the rebirth continuity as Conner is grown up and has a kid but it just makes it stranger as Tim looks like he's 14.

But according to the autist crying about people complaints of Batman's portrayal, we should all accept this new characterization for Barry, because at the end of the day DC's publishing comics starring him and he has a TV show and everything.

>we should all accept this new characterization for Barry
We all basically have though.