Why does every cartoon nowadays have to redeem the villain? Back then...

castrated mindset. They can't see the world as adults, and think everybody on this planet is the same emotionless pacified consumer that they are, only affraid of lacking consumable products and only aiming for a life of more consumption.

Why do people call this show SJW when all the things with Bismuth, Andy, and redeeming the villains were anti-SJW

>Toffee died
And that was a really bad thing

But he houched Eva Brown ass without conssent user!!!!!

Bismuth was clearly a literal commie, even her weapons are the communist symbol.

>Also, it's a girl show. It's like asking for violence in strawberry shortcake.
Sailor Moon obliterated some of her enemies

Fuck off and sympathywhore from your tumblr fans, Jerry,

>i don't watch cartoons but!

technically if he's supposed to slip through to the earth because the only force effecting him gravity, shouldn't he phase towards the direction of the sun since it has way more gravitational pull?

>this, but unironically

Better question, why do non-Christians despise redemption so much?

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They want to hold moral high ground over fictional characters

>Back then, they let the bad guys die brutal and painful deaths
Bullshit, cartoon heroes used to spare the villains life 99% of the time.

Because it's an easy out. Redeeming someone forces you to deal with moral greyness, and that's unironically far to complex a subject for most people to understand

user here asking the real questions

Everyone love redemption except edgelords, almost every single famous anime is filled with villains who turned good.

Also some faggots probably think most Nazis, Commies and even Jihadists were killed or jailed instead of being forgiven after abandoning their old ways.

But user, Hitler redeemed himself. He brought diversity to Israel.

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>why do non-Christians despise redemption so much?
because unlike retarded christcucks who think everyone should have a shot at paradise no matter what horrific acts they committed, some people are interested in seeing justice be done or retribution be handed down upon the guilty for the sake of the innocent victims laid low by those christcucks would offer redemption to.

>the virgin SJWniverse vs the chad star
youtube.com/watch?v=KhFavcpVwHA

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those colors remind me of Minuscule Mammal

Re-watching the first two seasons after years, holy shit it's like a breath of fresh air.
Everything is better - the art, the music, the writing. Steven isn't written like a 20-something progressive faggot in the body of a stunted midget child, he's actually an awkward and goofy boy who's perfectly fine with a bit of rough and tumble violence. The Gems are esoteric and distinctly magical with ancient floating constructs and time manipulating artifacts instead of boring stock standard sci-fi.

I don't know what the fuck happened. The difference is as dramatic as Pendleton Ward's seasons of Adventure Time vs the rest, but Sugar doesn't have the excuse of bailing.

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>mfw mlp just recently had a villain violently pulverated on screen

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>wanting justice is edgy
six months. iso-cubes.

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>Judge Dredd
Go Sit On A Ham Sandwich. With Mustard

>Judge Dredd
>a character that was literally forced to do his job since (artificial)birth and believe that the system must change to something less harsh.

better?

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>because unlike retarded christcucks who think everyone should have a shot at paradise no matter what horrific acts they committed, some people are interested in seeing justice be done or retribution be handed down upon the guilty for the sake of the innocent victims laid low by those christcucks would offer redemption to.
Still edgy

Budget cuts.

Main characters are stronger now so they don't have to kill their villains.

>implying that differentiates it from being below-shit-tier Barney garbage
I'd unironically like to slit your fucking throat with rusty steel to purify the human race from scum such as yourself

Do you fall into the sun?

Reminder that WW2 and the Cold War never happened in the SU universe.
So rebecca sugar made a world where hitler literally did nothing wrong

Not all shows need to violently murder a villain. A lot, especially kids shows, focus on themes that are better fitted through redemption.

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The "dyke-ra" guy is funnier than barneyfag 2bh

Remember that time in Naruto when nearly every bad guy got redeemed. Sasuke is welcomed to the village because he said sorry and Orochimaru is still active and not dead.

How about you shove it up your ass instead and go and sit in the timeout corner and think about what a failure of a "human" being you are?

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What did you guys expect, for Steven to kill them or for him to let anybody else do it?

>if you kill a killer, the number of killers stays the same
>but think of all the people you could save by killing that killer!
>don't be edgy. the number of killers is still the same. i don't care about lives lost. redemption is the best option. fuck justice.

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If they’re redeemed, they stop killing, so thats the life’s you could have saved plus one

go back to fucking your dog, lee

>for the sake of the innocent victims laid low
That makes zero sense. You have no stake in the matter once dead. Justice has nothing to do with the dead.

Or do you mean something else by laid low?

>progressive
Stopped reading.

The whole concept of Christianity is accepting Jesus in your heart thus redemption.

However a villain that gives no fucks and isn't forgivable nor seeks it is just more entertaining especially if it's effects in the narrative are force of nature tier.

We have had an over exposure of sympathetic villains, I just want to see an asshole being an asshole up to its end always pushing the narrative and heroes forward.

In the case of Steven Universe, it happened cause the villain was Pink Diamond in first place, her stupidity was a villain, the diamonds were nice people didn't shatter everybody at the ball. They didn't smash Stevennie immediately despite how disgusting that thing was

Cookie Cat left his family behind

if you kill more than one....

This. Again.
I don't think a retarded dog fucking neet is going to be doing any purging Lee.

Its a little pandery I guess. This is cheesy but I love it when a villain kills themself through their own actions (like getting crushed by their own machine or something) I think that provides a more satisfying resolution without veering too much into the "might makes right" mentality, which can sometimes be a little weird in a children's show.

No we don't. You don't watch cartoons

>if you kill a killer, the number of killers stays the same
Said no one ever.
>Justice means execution
maybe if you live in the middle of middle east

It's impossible to fall into the sun because the moon pull you back from the other side

>We have had an over exposure of sympathetic villains
Said no one ever.

Uncle Adolf did nothing wrong, though?

>You have no stake in the matter once dead. Justice has nothing to do with the dead.
says who? and beyond that, what about the dead person's friends and family? they certainly still have a stake in things.
and if you believe in a soul, mortal or not, it absolutely does have something to do with the dead. it is a universal norm across the planet that if someone was murdered, and there was no justice for them, that not only was their spirit left angry, bitter, and lashing out, but the world and even the gods could grow enraged and unbalanced.
>Or do you mean something else by laid low?
i mean, the expression did use to cover a lot of things, from assault, robbery, rape, etc, not just murder. Letting criminals go because "it's the noble thing to do" and "redemption is better" leaves all their victims without justice. And if there is not justice, and no law, then why should any person seek to live a life in harmony with their fellows when they could literally do whatever they want, so long as they're "redeemed" by the end?
>I have raped 1000 women, but I accepted Jesus so it's all good dog!
its a pathetic attitude to have and a villainous action to support.

>Said no one ever.
literally what batman said to red hood about killing the joker.
lurk more new fag.

I think if Steven went on this board for five or so minutes he'd change his mind about the whole redemption thing.

No, he’d realize this place is a hellhole and go watch Dogcopte or something

>dead people care
>no they don't
>yes they do! their friends and family are alive
But they aren't. They are dead. Fucking hell.

Also redemption means more than "I said I'm sorry".

What's up with all these black people in our cartoons? If I wanted black people in my cartoons, I'd go outside and pay a black person to act for me

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>If I wanted black people in my cartoons, I'd go outside and pay a black person to act for me

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as a jew, i can sell more of the same old shit with way less effort to a cheaper market that only black people would be stupid enough to buy.

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that's a qt Hitler

Are you baiting or just retarded? He didn't said that at all.

Well in this particular instance it was because the befriending the Space Hitlers was critical in essentially reviving hundreds if not thousands of their mutated friends.

If letting Hitler off the hook revived literally all the jews he killed, I think most people would grin and bare it.

>living relatives and friends don't exist and don't care about what happened to loved ones they lost
oh, i'm sorry. i didn't realize i was talking to a nigger as well as a faggot. go back to the hood, boy.

Are you schizophrenic?

There’s literally more black people in movies than the whole 13% of the population in the US.

maybe, but at least i'm not a nigger faggot like you.

>it's a girl show
I remember watching a Q&A with Rebecca, Butch Hartman, Lauren Faust, and Alex Hirsh where Alex called Steven a girls show and Rebecca got butthurt

>Back then, they let the bad guys die brutal and painful deaths
I don't know why you think villain redemption is a new thing

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>imagine giving hitler some mental health care and biology lessons
>prevent WW2 entirely through compassion and genuine support of German people

I mean, we didn't even get the catharsis of killing him. Pussy fucker took cyanide before justice came to him.

Okay, that's a great analogy

In We Bare Bears, they shouldn't have forgave cousin Don. He hurt his own grandma to turn the family against Chloe. Worse than Hitler.

So this is the power of "just-us"... not bad.

Really? Another one? C'mon Yea Forums! I thought you helped me fight the bad guys!

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earth is closest. imagine a bunch of competing magnets of different strength pulling on each other and settling into an equilibrium. and you're closest to the earth magnet so you stick to it

Lauren Faust said that, which is ironic considering her own history.

But unlike Rebecca, Lauren makes a pretty good job

i seriously have no fucking idea how Yea Forums is 0% aware that Ian JQ leaving IS the reason why SU went to shit. if you go watch OK KO, the same goofy charm and slow worldbuilding everyone liked about the first two seasons of SU are RIGHT FUCKING THERE.
>b- but the animation
"No!"
The animation is good for what it is, EVERY regular episodic kids cartoon looks like digital lifeless shit now anyway, so at least KO is expressive and fun.
>b- but muh gun control episode
just skip it retard

Rebecca Sugar needs to go back to doing great indie comics and y'all need to stop pretending she "fucked up" SU, because it was born fucked. She made some nice character art, that's it. Gennedy fixed the premise in the first place, Ian made the writing charming, the background team made it nice to look at, and aivi + surasshu made it wonderful to listen to whenever there wasn't a crummy ukulele jingle going.

tl;dr OK KO is underrated and i want more Pug Davis

She never denied that main audience of her shows, she just said that there is nothing wrong with boys watching girl shows and girls watching boys shows.

>like bro, why is murder even a crime bro? justice doesn't matter to the dead bro. why you gotta fuck over a nigga just cause he kill someone? it don't matter!

wait, the skeleton gun episode was a metaphore about gun control? I think it was just a wacky K.O nightmare.

>redeem someone
>they go back to being bad
>redeem them again
>go back to being bad
>redeem them again
>still bad

>millions die as a result

How far does redemption go in this case? How many times until you throw up your hands and declare it a lost cause? Mind you, I'm not referring to someone who genuinely struggles to be good, I mean someone who's an unapologetic asshole.

Daily reminder that killing is only okay if capture is impossible and death sentence is outdated and retarded.

>kill them
>they come back from the dead because is a fucking cartoon/comic
>kill them again
>go back to life again
>kill them again
>come back to life and free

>millions die as a result

Better to keep them jailed where you can monitor their moves.

Because everyone is redeemable unless they have some extreme mental issues.

What? No.

Gravity is proportional to distance. While the sun does have a slight gravitational effect on us, it's too far to outweigh the molten core of the Earth.

Bad redemption arcs suck and if someone has a long enough running and bloody enough history the "redemption" involves conveniently ignoring a large number of people are still going to want the ex villain dead. Good redemption arcs tend to involve a character actually confronting what they have been doing with their life up until that point and instead of just joining the protagonists gang of super best buds without question.

Nobody want's to read
>Kill millions of people
>Do something mildly helpful for the "chosen one"
>"HE A GOOOD BOY NAOW HE HELP DAH CHOSEN WHAN"

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"In Chesterton’s The Secret of Father Brown, a beloved nobleman who murdered his good-for-nothing brother in a duel thirty years ago returns to his hometown wracked by guilt. All the townspeople want to forgive him immediately, and they mock the titular priest for only being willing to give a measured forgiveness conditional on penance and self-reflection. They lecture the priest on the virtues of charity and compassion.

Later, it comes out that the beloved nobleman did not in fact kill his good-for-nothing brother. The good-for-nothing brother killed the beloved nobleman (and stole his identity). Now the townspeople want to see him lynched or burned alive, and it is only the priest who – consistently – offers a measured forgiveness conditional on penance and self-reflection.

The priest tells them:
"It seems to me that you only pardon the sins that you don’t really think sinful. You only forgive criminals when they commit what you don’t regard as crimes, but rather as conventions. You forgive a conventional duel just as you forgive a conventional divorce. You forgive because there isn’t anything to be forgiven."

He further notes that this is why the townspeople can self-righteously consider themselves more compassionate and forgiving than he is. Actual forgiveness, the kind the priest needs to cultivate to forgive evildoers, is really really hard. The fake forgiveness the townspeople use to forgive the people they like is really easy, so they get to boast not only of their forgiving nature, but of how much nicer they are than those mean old priests who find forgiveness difficult and want penance along with it."

Actual forgiveness, the kind that comes from forgiving someone who genuinely hurt you personally, is actually incredibly difficult. It's easy to forgive a fictional character who hurt no real people and potentially no one you cared about, and feel superior for doing so.

Piss off, Lee. No one likes you.

>when the good guys you were rooting for were actually the bad guys the whole time

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>if you kill a killer, the number of killers stays the same
This is only true if that killer is the only one you kill, and the first one you kill. Once you've killed one, any subsequent killers you kill send the number down.

>more sympathetic side of villain shown to the viewer
>isn't redeemed anyway because they're a fucking asshole and it'd be stupid if they were

BRAVO MCCRACKEN

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exactly my point

>the same goofy charm and slow worldbuilding everyone liked
Okko looks like shit and has awful characters and world. You can't compare it to early SU. Damn, you can't even compare it to TTG.

>Nobody want's to read
That is what people want to read

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Sailor moon was for pubescent boys to have something to jack off to.

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Terminator is a terrible character tho

But the "good guys" kill millions of henchmen all the time in any given show.

>Character isn't considered redeemed
>Was brought back in desperation to save universe
>Quickly back to planet breaking ways

Goku being a selfish idiot that endangers everyone for "muh challange" isn't even new to the series.

>Also, it's a girl show.
But Star Butterfly murders people all the time?

No, Lauren said she was pitching something to CartoonNetwork but they passed her up because they already had Steven Universe which they considered their quota-filled "girls show" to which Sugar said, "CN considers Steven Universe a boy's show actually".

Somewhere there's a translated page written by the author of sailor moon about her original plans for sailor moon which involved all the characters dying, but her editor told her that she couldn't do that because it was nominally a children's comic

Children's comics now in japan have a lot less violence than they did 20 years ago

>Whis: Vegeta-san, why do you seek greater strength?
>Vegeta: because of Freeza! Because he's back now!
>Goku: Whaddaya mean? Universe 7 might've been wiped out if it hadn't been for him! he really saved our bacon!
I love Goku

The diamonds redemption was fucking retarded. Their empire needs to kill planets and their organic life to subsist. We all know that the HW is going down what would happen now that they can't consume more planets,

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vegita and zuko redemption was some great shit.

I'll ask you a question Christ-user:
Can Satan and Judas be redeemed?

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Well let's be 100% honest, human beings have absolutely no interest in punishing people they like and being merciful to those they don't.
Tribalism is far more core to human social processes than ethics. Ethics are only relevant for out-group cases while tribalism is always relevant.

Jesus thought so for Judas at least

Killing of the planets was a non-factor during their redemption arc.

>The guy that punched the hardest said something stupid better agree with him

Nip logic

They only need to destroy planets to keep their army big enough to expand their empire.

Shout out to a character that literally didn't get a redemption but everybody stopped caring and just moved on with their lives because the only moralfag in the cast wanted god pussy and everyone else had better things to do.

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Vegeta never got a proper redemption arc tho. He lived on Earth because Goku was there and everybody accepted him because reasons. He fucked Bulma because she was a hot slut.

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Absolutely this
Villains who get dunked on even after you learn more about them, and their motives garner sympathy simply because they're still evil are the most kino of villains.

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You do have interest as you uphold a system that you hope will always forgive you and your loved ones. Preserving order through ethics creates a more secure society through conditional, consistent forgiveness. The whims of tribalism is just anarchy.

>Children's comics now in japan have a lot less violence than they did 20 years ago
Pic related runs in WSJ

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>wanting even more serialization in cartoons

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Seeing truly awful bad guys get brutally killed doesn't happen enough

>Preserving order through ethics creates a more secure society through conditional, consistent forgiveness.
People only want that kind of "security" when they're already well off, user. When things aren't going well, it always comes down to me and mine, and categorical imperatives go out the window.

Yeah but that author is a special kind of insane

>DCSHG
Trash

now you deserve more punches

It's funny, I normally see people say tribalism favors the well off when they argue your angle. Either way, social animals value cooperation, and so though there won't be complicated rules or laws, a form of ethics exists in tribalism. But yes, in those scenarios where resources are rare and things get extreme, there isn't much room for discussing what is and is not ethical. The ethics will still be there though.

But as stated above they are preferential ethics, not moral ethics.

I fucking hate Tumblr faces.

Gee I don't know, I think good old adulf is rocking the tumblr nose there.

>hasn't watched the Hunting Hitler documentaries
Fucker got old in Argentina.

No, the ethics remain. They may be forgotten by raping, pillaging, desperate cannibals, but regardless what they forget or simply don't regard, there still are ethics.

But as stated above they are preferential ethics, not moral ethics.

The Crewniverse grew up during the war on terror/the Iraq war

What does that mean?

What? They'd have to be my age for that and I'm not fucked up. Is it because I haven't had sex? Is it a sex thing?

The new rubies and Peridots are short gems, that means their resources are running down, and that was explained by Peridot.

So, They will still consuming the precious life of planets, but don't touch the planet earth. and Sugar call them redemed? That's fucking retarded.

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The sentiment remains the same, it's the old "if you kill him you'll be just like them!11!" trope. Yakuza does it all the time and if Kiryu just finished his fights great men wouldn't have to die, he could've saved more people by finishing the job. It's why letting the Joker live is retarded, it's why Superman not killing anybody who normal people can't handle is retarded when they endanger lives, it's always fucking stupid when it's done because it reveals a naivete about the writer and the audience that enjoys it. You can kind of make it work with Supes since he's determined to be the ideal people aspire to, but it's generally never done in a satisfying and right way.

Because its way better than eye for eye.
Punishments are proved to not work.

An ethics system can be anything that governs social behavior, which means that it can be entirely utilitarian, contradictory, hypocritical or nepotistic and even hedonistic as required by tribal preferences.

A moral ethics system outlines clauses for right and wrong based on a declared and shared concept of morality. Most modern ethics systems and religions are like this, and yet require the authority of either God or society to serve as the enforcer because concepts of morality that can govern large communities always come in conflict with tribal in-group needs.

Example: if you have 100 people all agreeing that all people are born free, at least 50 of them will still disagree with the other 50 in what way based on group preference and interests. Authority and force is required to prevent the moral ethics - based on common understanding of moral judgement - from devolving into preferential ethics - based on the desires of the in-groups.

Lastly there is idealistic ethics, which places in the realm of the universal categorical imperatives. These are laws that every individual would have to keep themselves to regardless of whether it is at the expense of themselves or their in-groups as these imperatives are the highest form of self. However, this is a state that requires at the far minimum either the removal of all materialistic needs, or the presence of a fully imperious authority that holds every individual accountable for the full compliance of these categorical imperatives. However all such societies have thus far been infected with misanthropy and turned out as totalitarian states, begging the question of whether tribalism is an essential core of a humane society.

We don't know what kind of resources they were missing. For all we know, it might've been Pink Diamond's diamond juice.

youtube.com/watch?v=z0Mxn4C3iW8

>He fucked Bulma because she was a hot slut
the redemption was that he wasn't a virgin anymore

not the user above but preferential ethics works within tribalism while moral ethics do not.

Preferential Ethics allows you to do anything you want as long as you don't do it to the tribe. You can rape, steal, lie, cheat, murder, and all of the above plus more as long as you don't do it to your in group. Morals of right/wrong don't mean jack and shit for the preferred tribe, only solidarity to the in group. For example Steven could castigate and demonize everyone else but he'll be soft and apologetic to Gems/Diamonds not because it's the right thing or he actually believes in redemption/justice but because of inherent nepotism/favoritism to the gems/diamonds via "blood" relations.

Moral Ethics are supposed to be universal. If rape, murder, etc are bad then you wouldn't do them to your own in group or an out group. So you would be opposed to the above actions because they're immoral to do, not because the target of said action shares a tribe with you.

The issue is that Steven is nepotistic tribalism in all forms. He was ready to kill those townie kids when they disrespected RQ/PD and her cancer rose moss but is ready to do a crocodile tear sweep under the rug for the diamonds not because it's the right thing to do but because they're "family". In fact he was able to do his crybaby tantrum to get what he wants from the Diamonds because they saw him as Pink being an immature brat again and returning to them. Meaning short of the Diamonds killing someone like Connie, Greg, or the CGs, Steven would let them get away with anything else other than him sob-shaming them for guilt points. If a Diamond shattered Pearl or stomped Greg into a fleshpuddle (especially if he couldn't jesus spit them back to life), Steven wouldn't be preaching forgiveness. He'd be just as pissed and out for blood as the same people he thinks he's above.

he had a redemption arc in the boo saga when he sacrifices himself (despite earlier in the saga really fucking the world because he was pissy with goku).

>He was ready to kill those townie kids when they disrespected RQ/PD and her cancer rose moss
he wasn't going to kil them, he might've beaten up Lars, but he doesn't kill that's his thing.

>Frank teaming up with Peni
We need more Punisher stories where he intrudes into more cutesy and kid-friendly enviroments, while still being the uber-violent punisher.
Like the Archie/Punisher story.

This user gets it. Would totally not rape or murder because it's the wrong thing to do, and I don't even know if it's a girl!

thats pretty hot

>keep their army big enough to expand their empire
For what reason do they need to have such a large army anyway? The most threatening thing the show has shown us that wasn't another gem/gem tech was just natural flora and fauna that a small militia of gems could take out. And its not like they have the same reason America does in being Galaxy police or whatever, they don't even have an economical reason, they could just stop making gem soldiers.

Aw sheeeeeeeeeeeeït! Ain’t you the nigga that wuz assraped by a dude in Barney suit when u wuz just a lil nigglet? I heard while all dat shit wuz happenin’ backstage, Barney’s pony friends just looked at yo sad ass and did nuthin’. Is dis true nigga?

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Bruh, take a chill pill

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A lot of assumptions here, especially where you think he thinks he's above anyone.

Why do you think Christians only have a concept of Redemption?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redemption_(theology)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvation#Jainism

The Muslims have it. The Jews have it. Buddhists have it too.

What makes redemption in a single religion any better from others? What makes your carpenter the Son of God when other religious figures have commanded similar divinity?

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>Watching LoliRock
>The girls fucking obliterate the bad guy to ashes
Isleep.gif
> The incompetent henchman/Best character in the show DIES
WHAT THE FLYING FUCK

Nirvana and redemption are completely unrelated though.
And let's not beat about the bush, Christian morality is far more universal than Muslim and Hebrew ethics which are tribalistic by design, meaning the Christian version of redemption could potentially be more pure. If it wasn't in the hands of Churches and clergies, at least.

People want to be merciful to others even when they have done things traditionally considered unforgivable in order to set a precedent where they are forgiven for their own failures and flaws.
It's also the natural continuation of an accept-everyone culture: anyone can be forgiven, because everyone is accepted. This is great on paper, but has mixed results in practice.
Even more importantly, villains are cool, and the only thing cooler than a good villain is a villain who's become good. Cartoons tend to get around the obvious issue of working with a former mass murderer by always making the redeemed character suddenly and permanently redeemed to make people feel less guilty about their acceptance, even if it's an unprecedented change in character.
After all, showing a genocidal monster slowly learning virtue while slipping up on the way and coming to a partial new identity is insanely hard to do in a satisfying way. Better just contrive it via talk no jutsu.

>Christians
>redemption
>they scream about eternal hellfire every five seconds
>meanwhile Jews don't believe in Hell and Muslim Hell you only stay for a while until you are punished for your sins and then you get to leave
Retarded Evangelical.

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father brown's a good fucking show too

Yeah that's literally the preferential forgiveness is about. Jews and Muslims will slap you on the wrist but as long as you're one of them you're still one of them. Christianity was always meant to allow forgiveness for everyone that sincerely regretted being wrong. BEING wrong, not just doing wrong.

Christian morality still relies on faith that a carpenter during the days of the Roman Empire is the said universal saviour of the world. Which includes every culture, even alien cultures.

Remove that, and it becomes secular, not Christian.

Also, nirvana is related
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_(Buddhism)

>meanwhile Jews don't believe in Hell and Muslim Hell you only stay for a while until you are punished for your sins and then you get to leave
What point are you trying to make?
Jews are shifty weasels who try to get out of responsibility and Muslims are so prone so sin that they need get of jail cards?
Before you accuse me of being a Christcuck please understand I'm literally a Satanist, but know also you literally have no argument

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I think it's just Steven that does this. FiM did it a few times but then they also have actual legit villains that they fuck up, and the redeemed ones get fucked up too and take a while to actually be redeemed, unlike SU which just puts the rubber stamp to work immediately so they can use the rest of the time on the shitty garbage filler that pads out the show 99.5% of the time.

No, Nirvana is not related to redemption in any way whatsoever. Buddhists don't even have the sins outlined in Abrahamic religions.
And I don't know where you think you're going with the cynical take on Jesus. Christian morality relies on the authority of God and that God is a personable being as Jesus, but that doesn't detract the morals from being applied universally to all life as opposed to Islam/Judaism that separate people into "ours" and "infidels".

>SUfag deflects using religion
>When SU hams up the whole "Steve =Jesus" crap

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And before you get the wrong idea, Christians separate people into "faithful" and "infidels", the lynchpin here being that "faithful" and "ours" are not synonyms.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anantarika-karma

Sigh. You're willfully assigning western interpretations to Buddhist ideas at this point. You don't really get religion, do you?

You're still not getting the point. As a Christian morality, it still implies faith in a carpenter. Remove that, and it becomes a secular morality with a Christian origin.

So. Tell me again. Why does it need to be described as a "Christian" morality when it can be universally applied? If a Muslim was to practise such universal morality, does that make him a "Christian"? I acknowledge that its a semantics argument, but its also related to faith - my cynicism comes from people believe their one way of viewing Christ is more right than anothers

Neither do you. Do you have one?

>Before you accuse me of being a Christcuck please understand I'm literally a Satanist
You realize you just made your opinion even more worthless.

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No, he would just keep falling until he hits the Earth's core and dies.

There's quite a lot of redemption stories in other religious/mythological stories though.

Buddhism comes to mind.

>That one episode where Terry deliberately crushes two non-combative chemists to death while fighting Chappell-Bane.

Cause its more realistic and powerful literary device

Because Jesus Christ is the only true merciful God to let anybody into heaven. Yep anybody.

>non-combative
They were literally shooting at him.

>So. Tell me again. Why does it need to be described as a "Christian" morality when it can be universally applied?
Because morality doesn't exist as a vacuum you fool. As stated without an authority backing it, universal application simply does not occur because in-groups devolve the universal morals into preferential tribalistic ethics. In secular societies the state is responsible for the upholding of these morals without religion. In Christian societies they used faith in a God-person. The effective difference on society is apparent in history as the mechanisms involved - secular education or religious dogma - are very different.
When someone tells you that they want Christian morality, what they mean is they don't want the state to be responsible for it and prefer their faith to be the arbiter.
Not an argument. We're talking about redemption and the religions involved with them. In many ways Buddhism isn't even a religion and as stated, Nirvana has nothing to do with redemption. Buddhism barely qualifies as a moral system. It's described as an eightfold path to enlightenment and becoming separate from the cycle of life, death and rebirth, anyone who doesn't want to reach enlightenment has no moral obligation to follow it.

This

IS WE NOT THE SUPER GEMS?

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So killing isnt wrong, nothing is evil in life.

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Furthermore, karma doesn't have a viable western translation. It's the sort of thing a civilization invents when its people don't understand the difference between right and wrong in essence.

You've got it backwards. Right and wrong are directly related to authority. Whether it is tribal authority, God, society, or an internal categorical imperative.
Something like killing is wrong because either your family, God, the law, or you yourself are telling you it's wrong. It's your decision who you listen to.

>morality doesnt exist in a vaccum
>big bang supports expanding vaccun
>morality is authoritative
>God might not exist
Agnosticism only goes so far

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Care to say that again without sounding high? It's called vacuum by the way.

How would you know what is or isnt in a void? You weren't there.

You need a large army if you want to expand a single empire across galaxies.

I'm intelligent, that's how.

>What is a heel face turn?

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KANEDAAAAAAA!!!

>space not a vacuum

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LaVey Satanism is just spooky Ayn Rand

worse its layman aleister crowley, all of layvey satanism can be summarized in 'do what thou wilt,'

Because i hate everything and most every human and secretly my main goal is to make the whole world as twisted and unhappy as i am

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Huh. I had to rewatch it to be sure, but you're absolutely right. For some reason I never remembered them doing anything but getting crushed by that roll of newsprint. Weird.

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'but don't forget to LARP magic ceremonies to fulfill your need for dogma, because this is a religion not just a philosophy.'

>Aleister Crowley
Sinestro in that Victorian Britain movie with Yon-Rogg?

>Also, it's a girl show
Powerpuff girls has more violence than this show

>Vegeta never got a proper redemption arc tho
>implying
youtu.be/j0I7EUrXPak
youtu.be/itEkyhV0P_s

>Cause its more realistic

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I dont go to catholic mass user

If done right it can be effective

theyre pretty much the same in terms of absurdity

You should have said Yea Forums related media, OP. And yes, the amount they do it in that in general or at least act like they expect you to feel sorry for the villain really annoys me at times. More than a couple of times I've thought:
>Have you looked back at what the character actually did at all?!!
The amount that Yea Forums shit that makes it to the western continents adds to that doesn't help, either.

Because it means that your fuck ups have more weight if you can do something to amend them.
Also people hate being told that objective evil or just plain evil exist.

She never said they were redeemed though. At best they just found common ground and agreed to not fight each other.

because anime did it. that's why.

Go fuck yourself you piece of shit
derp.ibooru.org/914377
(Remove the first period)

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Powerpuff Girls is great though and not even that girly.

>Remove the first period
Ew, gross, pedo

If your killing spree doesn't cause more people to take arms and kill.

Yes, which is why you see people flying off into the sky every day

They didn't fix the issue with Homeworld needing to hollow out planets to continue the gem race so that part is still up in the air. At best it's a peace treaty with Earth, they fixed the corruption they caused and (apparently) fusion is more acceptable on Homeworld and that Lemon Jade who got poofed will be OK. That last part isn't in the show and came from Rebecca herself.

SU never claimed to be taking a grand moral stand about redeeming antagonists. By Rebecca's own admission it's fantasy that people that bad can learn the error of their ways and become "good" which is why SU is escapism and this is absolutely not how it works IRL.

Yes. Even the devil can be redemed if he actually humbles himself and repent from the bottom of his heart.
He won't because he is a proud asshole though.

Bloomer here, get good

Ever consider the extreme of Hell might be WHY Christians might favor the idea of redemption more?

Because you're watching a fucking cartoon soap with no real stakes or even a proper conflict.

>The villain has a tragic backstory

>Instead of pulling a 180 the villain stays an asshole till the very end

This is what I want, good development but also commitment

>Villain is redeemed
>Suddenly gets a lot weaker

What kind of message are they actually sending?

Go see Shazam then

Dumb phoneposter.

Jews are a bunch of fuck ups that believe they can do anything because they are the chosen people. They don't need redemption because they are already good enought.
Muslims submit to Allah and they can only do wrong if they do not follow him or do anything to go against Islam and it's teachings. There no much need for redemption when you can do almost anything to the infidels as long as you follow the Islam.
Christianity for one reason or another adopted the idea of universality. That mean your bullshit is the same wherever or whenever it's done. If you take that and the idea of Eternal punishment for what you understand (or you are told) to be a failure or sin of course they will want redemption.

Do you truly want justice though, or do you just want revenge?

>Christianity for one reason or another adopted the idea of universality.
It's 50% Jesus' words and 50% Constantine's need for a religion that could unify as many disparate tribes as possible with only half of the Roman Empire's might at his disposal.

Nine times out of ten it's simple bloodlust, an "eye for an eye" and especially in SU's case as per the OP.

Since when commies are sjw? USSR was one of the most conservative countries ever. The only difference is that religion is replaced by ideology

it's super girly. that's not a bad thing.

>Since when commies are sjw?
Since the 1920s via Jews in America, followed by more Jewish communist shenanigans in the 1950s
I wish that was just /pol/ meming, but that's literally the history of Marxism in America. It's literally the Jews.

Today's retarded "socialist" who was born after the Berlin Wall fell and the Soviet Union broke up doesn't know this. Think of them as the student type who was led by the nose to join in the original Russian revolution, or those who overthrew the Shah in Iran. They think they're for freedom, but they really are the useful idiots helping something worse take root.

>"Sailor moon was for pubescent boys to have something to jack off to"
>Sailor Moon is a shoujo magical girl show
Stop pulling stuff from your ass.

First, I'm not a Christian. Second, obviously Judas can be redeemed. Satan is another story as we need a lot more information about him to truly judge his actions and the likelihood of him seeing the error of his ways. Personally, I don't like the idea of unquestioning submission so I can't fault someone for rebelling because he doesn't want to dance to someone else's tune. Also God's killed more people blah blah blah.

The Soviet Union WAS better than Serfdom, though.

The anime was for both genders, watch the subbed or just Jap language versions some time.

How is redemption within Islam less universal than in Christianity? Anyone can become a Muslim.

>The Soviet Union WAS better than Serfdom, though.
In the same way being punched is better than being stabbed

>The Soviet Union WAS better than Serfdom, though.
I guess this would depend on whether or not you were one of Stalins several tens of millions of corpses, yes?

>The anime was for both genders
There's a difference between getting a different audience from what they intended and making something to a broad audience, Sailor Moon's anime was the former

Some people are more equal.

The rock music and "fanservice" KINDA made me think it was for guys, too.

Here's the thing - for you, it was babby's first anime. For Japan it was standard fare.
You are sheltered by your whiteness, faggotbreath

That's pretty standard for a lot of shoujos, and mahou shoujo shows.

I don't see why they're
>idiots
for taking the better thing that was attainable there, though.

Good thing the Serfdom there never caused any premature ones, or horrible things, oh wait

Otoku aren't fanatics, nooooo

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Since the begining.
The idea of racism was a commie thing.
Feminism too.
The autistic insistence of equality in everything comes from comunism.
Even the hate for facism while doing the same shit or worse.

>fans like the villain
>don’t want him to die a miserable death
>redeem him for fanservice
>becomes a shell of himself and is hated by the fans

>Christian Redemption
>Hey guys I cheated on my wife, stole loads of money, killed some guys and lied about it constantly. Fortunately, I just asked for forgiveness and Jesus forgave me
>Evangelicals: That's cool
>Also I'm starting a MegaChurch and asking for lots of money
>Evangelicals: That's cool
>Also I may have cheated on my new wife, but I asked forgiveness
>Evangelicals: That's cool
>And stole some more money, but again, Jesus forgave me
>Evangelicals: That's cool
>And I may be fucking the pool boy
etc

Never claimed it was, and I suppose because many are familiar with Joseph

WTF I love communism now!

>Good thing the Serfdom there never caused any premature ones, or horrible things, oh wait
These are anarchist lies. The monarchy is ordained by God. Now get back to the fields.

>kill 2 killers and 100 non-killers
>this is somehow better because there are fewer killers than before

Serfdom, the condition of unfree tenant workers, was abolished before the Bolshevik revolution. The Bolshevik revolution brought back this condition in the form of state farms, whose tenant workers weren't allowed to leave.

On top of that quotas were worse than taxes: you had to pay them even if you had a deficit, so you couldn't even prioritize feeding yourself and your family, and you couldn't profit from your surplus because the state owned all you produced. If you even had a surplus, they'd increase your quotas for the next year. So you were stuck in a situation with no prospects of upward mobility because you couldn't save resources, but still serious risks of downwards mobility because you could still lose resources.

>There's a series called Lolirock
>Loli
>Rock

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>the complexity of grey morality
>Christianity

Why do people get pissed at this, you have shows where they beat the villain, when in real life, you can’t actually fight back and nothing change, this is just another end of the soectrum

Why is Steven next to be Ben Shapiro?

What has been done, has been done. The villain must pay, and if he is genuinely repentant then he will sit and take it.

Then i hope you like being the useful idiot of the Lenin that will raise into power and kill you after securing his position.

Based Chainsaw Man

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>Christian morality
>more universal
Good joke

What kind of plan is that?
Do nips choose their leaders based on international prizes and titles?
Why would the average person care?

Hell is just a dumb meme made by christcucks to make everyone shit their pants that way they will be good christcucks and accept the retardation

>Also people hate being told that objective evil or just plain evil exist.
Yea most people dont like lies thats why

But communism clashes with gays and muslims. It's not really sjw

Thats the joke, she is a retarded autistic devil who can't grasp how humans behave

You can realy smell the boomers here

>he thinks Lenin and Stalin are the same person

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Boomers are cursed with the pessimism and apathy of the Cold War and no unifying enemy or cause to balance out the apathy. So they sure, they sit and they complain about the world.

its fun when one or two villains turn back good. not the entire fucking roster.

really pathetic it comes down to me to correct first posters like this so often.

Really pathetic you actually feel the need you have to correct first posters

Before the diamonds were instantly forgiven and befriended by Steven the SU fanbase was insisting that it wouldn't happen because redeeming every character, especially the space Hitler main villains, is stupid, and that SU is better than MLP, and the show's writing is more mature and complicated than that, and Rebecca would do something way cooler

After it happened the fanbase calls it amazing and turned around to defend it despite how rushed and stupid it was because they can't accept when the show's writing is trash and the people critiquing it are right

>to which Sugar said, "CN considers Steven Universe a boy's show actually".
Thats butthurt user

>Never met people with Narcissistic Personality Disorder

You lucky dumb fuck.

Because people bitch when the villain gets killed, especially since capeshit took over and even normies are getting cucked by the "no kill rule". It's fucking retarded.

>SU is the only cartoon that does this.
Pretty much, even shows for little girls have the guts to kill off the bad guys than Steven Universe.

Jews "had" a psuedo-hell called Sheol which was effectively their hell but less fire/brimstone and more Greek Underworld. It's a deep black pit that drains your memories and identity from you, sort of like the river Styx mind wiping souls who swim in it. Old Jewish scriptures said that all souls went there, good & bad but then it became "modernized" to a hell for Jews. It's funny actually since Christian hell is all about torture and Jewish "Hell" is just sensory deprivation/an eternal time out until you forget yourself or realize what you did wrong. So Sheol is just a dark corner where YWHW can't hear you kvetch which scares/is hellish to Jews since they believe as the chosen people, god should be listening to their nagging/haggling 24/7.

Boys consider it a girls' show though. CN is just full of shit.

>y'all
You have to go back.

Because a lot of people who are on those shows legitimately believe that most people can be "saved" from self-destructive ideologies.

It's sort of the product of the bullied bully narrative, where people grow up convinced that the reason a bully bullied them was because their bully was in a broken home or was abused - basically, because the bully was troubled, but ultimately had a good heart. In reality, there are plenty of reasons for people to be malevolent, from trying to maintain status through aggression, or just because it's fun to kick puppies.

I'm totally okay with some villains being redeemed, but I feel that shows and comics should at least have one "pure villain" where they're just a ball of irrational hatred and evil. Irredeemable. It's necessary, because it guarantees heated conflict which is sometimes necessary in life.

So you don't have any arguments? Got it.

I think there's a way to straddle the line between "killing is never acceptable, even when the alternative is that hundreds of innocents die for no reason" and the alternative "murder all degenerates and people I don't like, suck my edge fucker". Mostly just by expressing that killing a villain or allowing them to die is an extreme case where there is no other option, while otherwise looking to subdue and arrest the person when possible. This is basically how Superman operates, although that's always a dubious assertion because his writers throughout the years have vastly different ideas of how he should think morally. Generally speaking, I agree that super heroes should have a reasonable moral compass and not be ludicrously naive. Batman should either have a really compelling reason for not killing the Joker, or the writer should ensure that it's clear that the Joker is an obnoxious asshole but not really dangerous to innocent people in their interpretation. .

That question is irrelevant since both of them are in Hell, which is where you go when God has already deemed you beyond redemption (unless you’re a No Heller).

Yes. People who are born crazy and torment their own flesh with no provocation for petty amusement with complete awareness of what they're going are totally not an argument that actual non-relativistic evil exists.

Because old timey villains were Hitler copies; completely irredeemable , inhuman monsters. Then writers realized that anyone can really be a villain. They're usually actual human beings who are pushed into a bad direction, and that's how writers wrote them. It stands to reason that they could be pushed in the other direction too, and thus a trope is born.

He’d just be one of those autistic fags who unironically believes “Yea Forums is love”
Also his fat fucking fingers and phone’s autocorrect would make him write out strokeposts.

Father Brown and everything else by Chestington is so good.

In Andrew Lloyd Webber’s fanfic, Judas was just really gay, tsundere, and retarded. If things were a bit different he could easily have been saved.

>Because old timey villains were Hitler copies; completely irredeemable , inhuman monsters
What is wrong with that?

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Descent into villainy isn't a redemption.

No they didn't. "Back then" the villain usually got away after their plan was foiled so the parent company could keep selling toys.

villain redemption is fine, but there's always ACTUAL bad guys too.
vegeta = redemption
frieza = unredeemable

zuko = redemption
azula/firelord = unredeemable

They let those guys live, maybe, I’m not sure what happened to Frieza after the tournament

Frieza teamed up to fight the greater threat. Azula is getting redeemed in the comics.

>frieza = unredeemable
Goku doesn't care tho. He sees Freeza as a bro now. And Toriyama sure wants to make Freeza's son canon so they will never kill him again.

The idea behind Steven Universe is that the real villain of its story is Pink Diamond, the concept is a weird antagonist because it was supposed to criticize the typical Disney's princess (Ariel) whom just want to do whatever makes them happy without thinking in other people. But this idea was too heavy so they decided backpedaling.

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gone are The days of Animated Batman being a Serial murderer

The author really wanted to kill this character. But Vegeta was very popular.

>hitler redemption arc
>mc says that his heart was in the right place but he was doing it wrong

That's the weird thing about Jojo part 4; the team befriends some horrible people but the fear guy gets punished.

How would you redeem Hitler in a non bullshit way?

horse show. star to an extent

Bickering aside, OP's pic got a good chuckle ot of me. Who's the artist?

First there are plenty of "Christians" who reject redemption don't pretend otherwise. When it comes down to it redemption needs the person striving for it to actually make a concerted effort to change for the better not to just be "sorry" they have to take responsibility and realize they will never obtain it on Earth or with others, redemption is only given by the grace of God. Redemption like recovery from addiction, is an ongoing process of doing the right thing and not backsliding into old terrible habits. Someone who believes they're redeemed are far from it and will go back to old habits or aren't really sorry and are just pretending. In the end though most don't believe in redemption because nobody can know what's inside other's hearts so it just easier and more safe to assume the worst.

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Dude it was about teenage girls in short skirts having catfights with teenage girl monsters in equally skimpy clothing. If you didn't hump the floor with your little 9 year old prick to that, then you had an objectively bad childhood.

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Even better question: Why the fuck did you feel the need to bring religion into a thread that had nothing to do with it?

You fail to demonstrate that point tho.

This

Congrats on letting a word hurt your feelings enough not to see the point. Not sure why you felt the need to tell everyone though.

This.

Or you could stop pretending that someone specifically targeting killers will suddenly murder a disproportionately large number of non killers for no reason.

revenge is justice that has been denied.

>The Soviet Union WAS better than Serfdom, though.
it absolutely was not

The funny thing is is Toriyama had his way Vegeta's conversion back to evil in the Buu saga would've been permanent and he'd have been killed like a dog and discarded. The fact that the fans like Veggie boy so much kept him off that chopping black much to Toriyama's disappointment.

Then they ain't true scotsm- I mean Christians.

Because redemption is one of the core concepts Christianity and therefore Western Civilization.

t. atheist

he was too dangerous to let loose

And yet they just put RHCP in jail. He actually killed someone.

Weakness is good. You should be weak user, otherwise you could overthrow the status quo.

Nobody is saying it wasn't rushed you cuck Stop being butthurt because people liked it in spite of that.

> Hitler
Read a history book mongoloid.

Source:
Your ass

Pink is naive and the show calls her out on this. There's no secret message behind it in spite of her methods winning the war to save Earth.

True, but super villains like super heroes are often portrayed as being judged outside of the justice system. If the person and circumstances are so unique that making an example out of them doesn't really serve a purpose and you somehow know the are truly repetant.

Consider the thought experiment that you and another person are the only two people on existence. In such a world there would be no such thing as justice as justice is is inherently tired to societies. Two people don't make a society therefore no justice.

Imagine Superman and Let Luther. If you don't accept that super villains can be held to more complex standards than the standard justice system then imagine that Superman and Lex are stuck on other side of the universe. If Superman know Lex will try to do good and won't do harm again then should he let Lex do good or should Lex be lobotomized for his far off crimes? What purpose would punishing him serve?

The hard part is determining if the person is truly repetant, hence why we punish people based on the crime rather than whether or not they are sorry.

>Telling Faust what the execs told her as a correction of the story is butthurt

Sounds like you're the seething one.

isn't redemption literally one of the biggest themes of steven universe?

complaining about that is retarded.

So you're saying Hitler is redeemable. Good to know.

It is always muslims who use the “no true scotsman” fallacy though. Nobody, atleast here in Europe, yells that Anders Breivik was no true christian or something like that.

He was, retard. He was just a person, not a comicbook supervillain.

have you ever thought about not watching steven universe?

one of sugar's overdefensive npcs has entered the thread

He cared very deeply about Germany but wasn't a caring person. He therefore didn't care at all about non-Germans... nor Jewish Germans... nor handicapped Germans... nor gypsy Germans...

>mlp has killed a main villian onscreen and everything
>TWICE (2)

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Totally Yes. If Hitler is capable of correcting himself that is. i agree with this user that the problem with redemption is that we dont have the means to check if people are genuine or not.
If Hitler’s remorse was genuine and he turned into austrian jesus in a few months, then it would be horrible to let someone have their revenge on him to satisfy their bloodlust.
But christian/universal forgiveness will not save him from international conventions/laws. The best he can get is house arrest for lifetime i think.

this and other shows that had a quirky adventure every episode were loads better before they started trying to be deeper and complex

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Yup.

S E E T H I N G

>its ok guys the villain should have his chance for eternal paradise in heaven while we on earth continue to suffer for his actions cause they said sorry!
christfags

Nowadays? Balloon Hitler basically got redeemed in ATHF.

Since WWII never happened in SU Hitler either didn’t exist or is remembered as a great man who led Germany to prosperity.
So Hitler literally did nothing wrong.

What idiot genuinely believes that was the message

I am gay and they fought mostly with magic from what I remember

Fucking Voltron literally pulled that shit.

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>He wanted to preserve life, so he killed a bunch of people

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Christianity is built on destroying evil. You don't know what you're talking sbout

What about Joseph?

>In the end though most don't believe in redemption because nobody can know what's inside other's hearts so it just easier and more safe to assume the worst.

There is an entire part of the bible being against this kind of behaviour, Ananias didn't want to trust Paul but Jesus directly told him to do so. Forgiveness is not a "nothing personal kiddo" bullshit.

revenge and justice aren't mutually exclusive, that idea is stupid and has been parroted by a million people who never stopped to think about what they're saying

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Goebbels or Stalin?

People who criticize the Bible have most often never read it

Except that unless you see the murder yourself you have no way to know someone is actually guilty of anything unless he was already pleaded guilty and even so it could be wrong, that's why death sentence is considered an outdated concept.

At least. 4 of them died.

I think a reason that Steven Universe's handling of the villains is so fucking frustrating is that not only are they not held accountable for the atrocities they've committed, it's not even acknowledged. Remember that time that Steven and Peridot drilled down into the earth and found a cluster of thousands of corpses that were mangled together? remember when they discovered the fusion experiments? remember when the horrible multi-hundred year war where immeasurable amounts of gems died, and it turned out to be staged by some psychopath that wanted to shirk her responsibility?

Because none of the other characters seem to. No one seems to care about the shit that's happened throughout the whole show. Not a single character is passionate, or hurt, or wants revenge for the friends they've lost. Steven seems to also have the delusion that because they're family, it means they shouldn't be held accountable for anything they've done. The reason people get pissed about this show is that there is no justice, there is no accountability, there's no voice of reason. You can defeat a villain and gain justice without violently murdering them on screen- pic related.

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Guy from the bible

>The Muslims have it. The Jews have it. Buddhists have it too.

Muslims stole concept from existing cults, it's mostly atonement based though but they do have it.
Hebrews concept was for only their cult members and their concept of redemption is based on purity rather than reaching God through your actions.
Nirvana has absolutely fucking nothing to do with redemption, it's the release from the cycle.

Christianity has quite a new take on redemption and it made it universal unlike the jew concept of it, no wonder Christians spread like wildfire and build the western world.

That's what it really is. Sugar and her team want to have the over the top anime villains, but then they completely back down from making them evil.
>Hurr no ones evil it's just a different POV
Fuck. That. These bitches have annihilated trillions of lifeforms over the years and turn the corpses of their own soldiers Into a ticking timebomb. What reality do you people live in where Steven can just talk for a little while and all is forgiven. Even Naruto didn't sugarcoat the bad shit his villains did before they were "redeemed." What a bunch of fucking cowards.

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>it's mostly atonement based though but they do have it.
Muhammad forgave the ones who murdered his uncle (literally the closest person to him) and they didn't had to "earn" anything, he also said that God would instantly forgive the worst man who ever lived at their last moments if their regret was sincere.

>Nirvana has absolutely fucking nothing to do with redemption, it's the release from the cycle
But forgiveness is a big part of Hinduism as well, Krishna after being fatally wounded forgave his assassin and he is considered an example to be followed.

>These bitches have annihilated trillions of lifeforms over the years
source

What do we know about these lifeforms they exterminated anyways,

He killed millions...

Orochimaru is still alive and roaming the lands free of consequence, you mongoloid.

>Muhammad forgave the ones who murdered his uncle (literally the closest person to him) and they didn't had to "earn" anything, he also said that God would instantly forgive the worst man who ever lived at their last moments if their regret was sincere.

There is a similar thing in Christianity, in practice redemption is now gatekept by the system and we have to consider that Mohammed teachings became more brutal as he became a warlord, by the end of his life some of his later teachings contradict the later and people that practice Islam give more weight to the latter parts of his teachings.
Then we have Islam as a political tool and how it became more corrupted after his death.
the one comparison I can draw from redemption being corrupted in Islam is with charity being corrupted in Christianity were at a point in time most people could "buy" redemption by founding pilgrimages and donating relics.
Not saying anything against it, however redemption isn't a part of the cycle hate itself is a "vice" that keeps you in it.
Krishna was an example to follow but not a concept in faith.

Arnold Swarchtz literally became Govenor because he was in a few movies and competed in mr universe

Us has had multiple presidents that were nothing more than celebrities.

your average person IS that dumb.

>Us has had multiple presidents that were nothing more than celebrities.
Non american here, who besidess Donald Trump and Ronald Reagan?

that's it right? I really can't remember any other instances. Ronald Reagan was actually the governor of Cali before president so he actual had some political experience.

who ever killed Hitler probably regrets it

Redemption is not purely a Christian concept though.

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Yes but if you're going around murdering murderers chances are you've watched them murder people or attempt to murder them before you kill them. Don't try to turn this into some silly ass "MUH FLAWED JUSTICE SYSTEM" argument

He probably did since he killed himself.

if i'm remembering corectly there's a part in the quran where it says that converted islamists are inferior to the original ones. Now that i think more about it i cant confirm if it's actually in the book or if it's just word of mouth that's been cultivated trough the generations.

Why do people like to compare the diamonds to Hitler? I'm pretty sure the Diamonds didn't actually kill any humans or really any other alien race explicitly. They treat gems a hell of a lot worse from what we've seen. They're pretty damn fascist but I always viewed them as corrupt CEOs that pollute the environment without a care, genocidal maniacs.

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>Imagine being able to end world war two after 7 years of war and millions of death, with only negiotations, and deciding instead to continue it because the Japanese emperor deserves to die
>Or better yet, just bullshitting them and killing the emperor when he surrenders
That's basically Yea Forums. I've said this before I'll say it again.
1. They had no other options to take
2. Even if they did, it's not amoral to *not* execute war leaders. They didn't kill the emperor of Japan, they didn't kill the leaders of the CSA, and they didn't kill every combatant they could.

Just the fact that "peace and forgiveness" is somehow offensive to you should be something you reflect on. Clearly being the destructive asshole didn't work for us in Iraq, so why haven't we learned the lesson? Just killing the evildoers doesn't solve the problem. That's the whole point of Steven universe not using bismuth's weapon.

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Absolutely based

You say as you don't disparge the claim at all... You're just parroting what you think.

Sometimes people need to think deep and hard about this shit. Are we trying to get solutions or are we trying to make ourselves feel better? Because clearly this was the best solution. This is actually the best thing Steven could've hoped for and literally the only way that the uncorrupted gems could've been saved. So why is it wrong?

Also, aren't you all the same people who called Steven out for standing up to the gems when he fused with Connie? Now all the suddenly he should've stood up no matter what? Your all full of shit, you know that?

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They're definitely fascists, but more out of warped ideals regarding how their race should behave under White Diamond then genuinely taking pleasure in wiping out other races. Yellow Diamond didn't even view humans and organic life as worth hating. They were more like pests that were just in the way of them conquering the planets to harvest the minerals needed to make more gems. They may stomp out off colors similar to the nazis targeting jews but again this is not something inherent to nazis. Plenty of fascist regimes have done this and I have a wee bit more faith in SU's viewership that they won't look at the Diamonds and suddenly want to be fascist, especially since never EVER are their ways promoted as positive and they even end up on the CG's side by the end of Season 5. That's something that a lot of people forget I think.

Sailor Moon is dogshit

redemption is earned, not handed you over like it's nothing.

Would fixing mistakes be part of that? Because redemption isn't the same thing as absolution of crimes. One requires work, the other pretends the problems never happened.

>implying that he did something wrong in the first place
>faggot author too spineless to draw a real swastika
Into the trash it goes

It's not redemption if it doesn't take.

If it doesn't take, then it's okay to off them. Just give them a chance first and accept the consequences like a responsible person.

It's weird, because RL comparisons would be humans harvesting resources leading to the endangerment and extinction of animals, aka lesser lifeforms. Humans are for whatever reason are on a similar level of communication with the gem race, so they're able to argue their case. But we don't have something like that in real life. We just accept that animals are animals. I'm reminded of the Chimera arc in HxH.

Human fascism is in-fighting among humans, so gem equivalent would be stamping out off-colors. We do that in the form of euthanization, prison, slavery, and closest would be the various genocides across human history.

how the fuck is "everyone laughed and now we're all friends" the best solution to a thousand-year war and the horrific experimentation on their own people? all those gems are still dead, and completely unavenged as their murders are now best friends with the protagonists despite having done nothing to redeem themselves. I swear SUtards are worse than bronies

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you're trash

War was never clean, it was started by a Diamond who put another primitive ass race before her own, who only considered cross gem fusion after it already started and meeting Garnet.

They fixed the problem they caused and the war wasn't started by them. But if you want to needlessly antagonize the people who you need help from I'm sure that'll go well.

You talk like someone who dropped the show after s2, or perhaps never even saw it, only absorbing the plot through osmosis. Watch the season finale and explain how exactly have the Diamonds been forgiven for their various acts of horror? They agreed to help restore the corrupted gems. There's obviously more reform that can be done. There was no "redemption". Earth's only position was to beg HW to clean up their most egregious mess and kiss their feet for not blowing the whole thing to smithereens.

STUPID CUNT

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Wasn't even that far, Steven got through to Blue and Yellow and made them realize White's methods were hurting Pink and the gems that were serving them. There's strain under work (which is natural) and then there's what White was doing and that was the straw that broke the camel's back and set everything tumbling down.

One of the biggest criticisms regarding how the US handled post-war Japan was that too many war criminals were escaping responsibility
Letting the Emperor live is understandable because he was largely a powerless figurehead and it eased transition of rule. Letting those responsible for Unit 731 avoid trial sets an awful precedent.

>I'm reminded of the Chimera arc in HxH.
Is interesting how both Chimera Ants and Gems reached the same conclusion
>Yeah we need earth but you convinced us to be merciful, so we are going to spare some few humans and send them to some kind of Zoo, aren't we nice?

And then when facing near defeat they realized they were still being Jerks by not treating humans as equals and taking away their freedom was still bad.

KIlling zombies is not violence, they are already dead.

I think thats more because directly going after Josuke's family angers him HARD. He set that first villain in stone after all.

No one said it was.

I WILL say that no religion has redemption so ingrained in it as Christianity. Its very namesake is defined by forgiveness.

>Backwards swastika

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Should have just let him go to at school

>the Virgin SJW Steven Universe who redeems Hitler through literal pederasty
>the Chad Far-Right Confederate who beats Hitler to death with a belt buckle and fucks pregnant Anne Frank silly

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they wouldn't allow the Nazi one on CN

i don't wanna be reminded of that

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Because it's the belief that everyone is inherently good no matter what, and it's just circumstances that cause them to be that way when in reality some people are just born evil monsters and nothing can change that.

But it's fan art

How do you know that?

Psychopaths are literally that, they can't feel anyone elses feelings/pain or empathy and are born that way.

>Because it's the belief that everyone is inherently good no matter what
If that was truth then we wouldn't need redenption would we?

Some people believe it’s neurological related

I hate SU for always doing this shit.

There are those who can be rehabilitated but as I said there are literal monsters who can't be and are better off euthanized for everyones safety.

You do now.

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So you redeem a killer who then relapses and kills again so you can redeem him again. Some people deserve another chance and some don't. Is it so hard to accept that some people are nothing but cancer and everyone will be better off without them? If someone killed your family for an edgy joke would you offer him a chance or decide that he lost the right to be redeemed?

They can be coerced to behave however, althought it gets harder the older they are.

Probably want them dead, but that doesn’t mean it’s the right thing

So if a mass murderer truly regrets his actions that means it's ok? You just have to be genuinely sorry after what you do and you can keep doing anything you want in the moment?

A phrase that should stay in wrestling, and TV Tropes.

Most people would want anyone that killed their family members to be brutally murdered no matter the reason, even if it was an accident.

So let's give everyone responsible for anyone death under any circunstances a brutal public execution.

>filename

Fuck da police

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> Alex Hirsh where Alex called Steven a girls show and Rebecca got butthurt
Does Rebecca really think her show is for boys? What boys does she knows that watch it? Whe must be delusional.

Remember where you are.

LIke Alex has room to talk, Dipper is a bitch compared to Steven

Why not? How is letting someone who knowingly and actively caused suffering and ruined other peoples lives the right thing? You're brainwashed by people repeating the mantra of forgiveness into seeing it as the grandest virtue. Sure second chances are good for most people, a thief deserves a chance to improve or someone who killed people by a mistake, but offering redemption to anyone who deliberately robs others of their chance at life is no different than spitting on all people who suffer because of their actions for the sake of your own moral superiority based on the propaganda mindlessly repeated by everyone. Most people deserve redemption, but redemption is something you can forfeit with your actions.

So you think there should be no dostinction between accidents and people fully aware of their actions. There is no line we can possibly draw there, they're all the same and it's not possible to judge situations individually.

Maybe he deserves prison for life, it’s more up to the law, not me, Wouldn’t mind them going to jail for life and being stuck there until they die, because it doesn’t matter if I kill them, it doesn’t make any better or my family any less deader, I’d feel good for about a short period of time, but still damaged as hell.

because a christain can kill you + your whole family and find ways to rationalize it later on

>All the edgy answers
Atheists are hilarious.

The funny thing is that I (the poster) am an atheist.

>anime anne frank
aw c'mon man, that's not cool

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>that image
Haha, what a joke.

Based Suzyposter

because there's no such thing as a villain
all humans act according to what they think is right
'villains' are just people who need a lot of psychological help

>might makes right
Are Nips red pilled and dare I say..based?.

>because there's no such thing as a villain
How do you explain concrete girl then?

They are dissapearing like pandas because they refuse to breed, so no.

>choose extinction instead of breading with niggers and mudslims
Japan truly is ichiban.

>They're definitely fascists
not really, at best they display fascistic tendencies but. Their soldiers don't march in goose step and there isn't propaganda plastered everywhere praising the diamonds and there's no secret police or political party. Homeworld makes zero references to any "ancestors" or a greater past like fascist Italy(Rome) or Nazi germany(Some aryan ancestors) do and the fact they target unwanted(off colors) isn't unique to fascism, all political ideologies have suppressed the minority at one point. In fact I don't think it's fair to use human ideologies to describe the gems. It's like how people call ants communists, it makes sense from a simplistic view but the closer you look the more the inaccurate the label becomes. They don't even have markets, which is one of the main reasons political ideologies exist.

They don't need to breed with anyone other than nips, but they don't even do that.

The point of redemption is that on one in this world is truly innocent and the only reason people like you get to wield the sword of judgement is because you operate from a relative and socially agreed upon point of safety that was most likely achieved through hundreds of years of murder,rape,theft,incest and every other horror imaginable thus rendering YOU subscribers to moral relativity and because if there were ever a centralized authority pressing the blade of judgement against your neck, I guarantee you'd be screaming bloody murder for mercy

Your response to this will probably be some appeal to maintaining society "society would collapse without justice" but that just means you subscribe to the same moral pragmatism that any "degenerate" subscribes to to justify their actions "I had to sell drugs or starve to death" or "I had to kill them to survive" but on a larger scale

That make sense, though. Aren't the Senshi more so balancing forces than "hero" forces? Saturn's a Death Aspect.

IIRC there was an exploratory movement in the US during the civl right's movement for black men to leave black women and hook up with asian women instead for those traditional housewife + offspring IQ gains, but the Asian community at large didn't want to play ball.

The issue is, nobody teaches these fucking nips how to talk to the opposite sex, to the point where there are girls who dress up as guys and charge other girls money, to talk to them.

South Korea offered dating classes as an experiment and the course filled in seconds, with men AND women, to the point that they have to expand the program.

You'd think they would just randomly assign a male that signed up to a female that signed up and tell them to meet twice a week. Boom. You're dating.

It was the historical norm for American leaders to be privately or militarily successful before entering politics, the modern era in which career politicians who have few or no accomplishments outside of politics is in fact more unusual

Uncertain but she herself (the author) has a desire for bloodshed that may or may not have been sated.

There were also experimental movements like Kwanzaa, Ghanaism, Egyptianism and other stuff which range from reasonable to retarded.

>every cartoon
What other cartoon makes this mistake besides Steven Universe?

To be honest, I think the normal gems don't revere the diamonds enough. The diamonds are the closest things to both gods and mothers the gems have. They would be a lot more loyal based on that fact alone. It would be a deep-running platonic love every gem would have for their diamond, strong reliance on them and overwhelming desire to serve and support their diamond.

The new Broly movie pretty much confirmed Frieza is as evil as ever.
Which is weird cause that means Vegeta is 100% right about Goku being a horrible idiot and Goku is partially responsible for every planet Frieza terrorizes from this point on... yet they are playing it off as gag.

Would've been too difficult to write well.

Gems would probably also be significantly more forgiving towards their diamonds. Like the way a child defends an abusive parent. A whole race with Stockholm syndrome.

It could be an interesting premise but honestly Steven Universe is poorly written and people hype it because the premise had way more potential than its reality.

They literally obliterated his soul and body, you got to see him disintegrate.

Mercy is injustice agianst the victim, unless they give it freely.

Then what are we left with?

In the scene there is even sound to indicate the the scientists got crushed

I think it would have also been more interesting if the crew drove home the idea that the gems really are programmed beings. Sure, there's all powerful individuals ruling, but when white diamond takes control of a gem it's not because she derives pleasure from being cruel and literally stealing the conscious from other gems, it's her simply obeying her programming of keeping order the best way she knows how.
I think it would have been interesting for Steven, a character all about free spiritedness and making the best of mistakes, trying to free a race of aliens who cannot even comprehend that they are all slaves to some degree.
Probably could have been better than the onslaught of homophobia allegories.

Some people are irredeemable and others are hard to forgive, through god all things are possible but not everyone asks for his help or redemption.

Technically, he's supposed to go to Skartaris since DCAU Earth is a Hollow Earth.

You know, that really depends on which branch of Christianity. Some like Adventists, for example, don't believe in hell, because everyone is practically sleepless dead until judgement day, in which everyone rise, the good are redeemed, and the evil are simply obliterated, no eternal punishment.

>villain commits innumerable atrocities
>hero tries to forgive him or save him
>villain realizes the weight of his sins and that people will never forgive him and refuses
Is there a Yea Forums example, I can only recall one, and it's Yea Forums Xenogears.

Prison for life is not redemption. And it's a waste of resources to keep some people alive though as I said majority of criminals can be redeemed to some degree, but some don't deserve the chance or the resources needed to keep them alive.

It's really so damn funny how all you contrarian cunts said that the entire war and everything was Pink's fault when the reveal happened, but you all turned on a dime to saying the other diamonds are space Hitlers when they got redeemed just to have something else to shit on.

both options are trash

killing is easy, redemption is hard

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Christian redemption makes zero sense and is meaningless

reminder that the Diamonds ARE space hitlers and have ended countless worlds and races for the sake of their own progress.

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So Pink was a good guy then huh.

Kys prodie scum for using a Catholic meme. Redemption must be earned through hard work and faith, not just faith, heretic.

And I mean a lot of hard work, if you committed genocide, you better be working to end world hunger or some shit.

more like a selfish brat who happened to have a point
and cocklust

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Please say sike

Cough cough, sombra got rekt

Based

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To quote the King the Manlets
Facts don't care about your feelings.
There is no proof of your God and therefore he isn't real and no amount of your cuck tears will convince me otherwise.

For a redemption one needs to do something wrong

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>whiteknighting headcanon races that may not even exist

>diamonds known for endless countless worlds
>its fine because they are off-screen nobodies
>its not like there is anyone left of them anyway
>they have no one to own up to or call them out because they are all dead

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>Here's intelligent alien race, bro.

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>redemption is hard

And boring

One thing most people aren't acknowledging is that Steven and the Crystal Gems can't make the Diamonds pay for their sins even if they wanted to. They all have their all against Blue Diamond and only succeeded in making her lose her balance. Blue Diamond had two ships land on her and it only ruffled her hair. Yellow Diamond's lightning is a one hit ko to any other gem, fusions included, but she zapped Blue for like a minute with no tangible result. Even though the show can be too idealistic sometimes in that regard it's positively bleak. The Diamonds are too big to fail, and all Steven can do is exploit their familial connection and get them to loosen up because their tyrannical actions are having a negative effect on them.

Honestly I feel like Steven being able to kill the Diamonds would strain the show's internal logic a lot more than people are willing to admit, since it would necessitate an asspull much greater than the Lion Turtle.

Nah it's written just fine. The only major problems it has writing-wise are structural and characters, lore and overall tone are great. It's the pacing that's the real problem with SU not everything else.

To add onto this:
The only "wasted potential" the series has is not being twenty two minutes long per episode. Some things either have to be rushed or glossed over as a result and it sometimes softballs things that needed to go much harder.

Reminder that the diamonds are facist dictators who enslaved all of gemkind, murder members of their own species regularly just for coming out different and lesser reasons, tried to wipe out all gems on Earth and left them to suffer for thousands of years as mutilated mindless monsters, created the cluster and forced fusion experiments to torture hundreds of thousands of crystal gems and needlessly blow up the planet, and that by itself puts them beyond forgiveness or redemption even without taking into consideration all of the alien species and planets they have destroyed outside of it

> Fasict dictactors
Yes
> Enslaved gemkind
That implies gems aren't ants
> Shatter their own
We've never seen this actually happen and the resource crisis makes it even less likely to happen
> Tried to wipe out all gems on Earth
For the CG's murdering one of their own
> Gem experiments
War crime, Peridot helped assist and she became good too
> Blow up planets
Explicitly to mine resources to breed, not to murder. The side effects are irrelevant.
> Alien species
Such as............blank.

Your kind is hilarious.

A good motive doesnt excuse anything. Try defending murder with the excuse "you see your honor, I was just really mad at him. He deserved it."

I don't think the Diamonds could fit inside a courtroom.

>The side effects are irrelevant.
Sure thing, Mengele.

Seeing Yea Forums anons pretending to care so long as it makes SU look bad is always a treat.

>gems are ants
They aren't, in any way, and if you're going to try to pull the "they're naturally programmed to obey the diamonds" it is repeatedly shown that they are indoctrinated into it and are happier when they are allowed to learn how to live outside of the slave like system the diamonds subjugate them to
>We've never seen this actually happen
The off colors were in hiding because they would have been shattered if found, Holly Blue says the gems at the zoo are lucky to be kept alive despite being off color and Yellow Diamond wanted to shatter them, Blue Diamond was going to shatter Runy for fusing with Sapphire, Yellow Diamond tried to shatter Peridot for speaking out against her, multiple other instances in the show spell out that off colors and gems who disobey are shattered
>for the CGs murdering one of their own
They tried to murder all the oppressed gems who started a rebellion against their fellow slave owner diamond for freedom, which isn't justifiable
>war crime
A war crime that is way too extreme to be made up for or forgiven, and Peridot is not the one behind its creation and the intent to torture like the Diamonds, she was brainwashed and following their orders
>explicitly to mine resources to breed
They shouldn't need to breed because they're immortal, the only threat to gem lives is the diamonds themselves
>alien species
Such as the ones that Yellow Diamond is shown leading an invasion against in Jungle Moon and all the ones that lived on the thousands of other planets the diamonds colonized

>Obviously mixing topics together to try to confuse the issue
>Frogposting
>Spelling and grammar consistent with that of a pathetic troll

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The holocaust never happened.
Gas chambers have never been proven.
Rohm and the SA were openly gay and have never been descriminated in Nazi Germany.
Jesse Owens black Olympian champion of 1936 gives us testimony that Blacks weren't descriminated, either.
SEEK THE TRUTH.

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It's not a matter of cool. It's a matter of liberty vs tyranny.

>defending your rights is a joke

>Anne Frank would be pregnant if the South had won the Civil War

ftfy

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Justice is revenge. It literally is. It's punishment for a commited wrong.

Because they don't understand that you actually have to feel actual regret and desire to set things right in order to be at peace and be welcomed into God's Kingdom. It is not enough that you simply declare you've repented, you have to genuinely feel so.

youtube.com/watch?v=wtxLBlM-BMI

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Shoulda burned more

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I think that depends whether or not the act of vengeance is proportional to the wrong that was initially dealt.

Obviously blowing a person's brains out because they cut you with a beer bottle might be going a bit overboard.

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There is no evidence that the Gems ever destroyed another world.

Well yeah. Fuck Steven Universe.

Pink was selfish user, she didn't tell them the truth, she didn't remove the order

Pink didn't tell them the truth because because that would destroy the rebellion before they had chance to make things work. I imagine she would have if they won and Pink had a chance to do things naturally, but eventually attrition won out and she had to become Rose full time and by that point the lie had become too big.

Anyone saying that Steven should keep fighting a war against the Homeworld is unironically dumb as fuck, it was clear that there was no way they could defeat them.

Not that she's wasn't selfish btw, this is backed up in the show itself. It's part of what makes her character so interesting.

Jungle moon
Yellow Diamond saying she's conquered thousands of planets

People are saying he shouldn't have forgiven the diamonds and the show shouldn't have let them get off scott free for all the evil murderous facist dictator shit they did, dumb fuck

Why? Because you want justice? For beings that never existed, how self righteous can you get?

Rebecca sugar is physically incapable of managing any sort of team, and the person that was doing the actual management left

Because I want the show to not be fucking garbage

You think it has to be all “justice prevails” and “all evil doers are punished” to be good?

I hate this fucking game.

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You massive dipshit, do you really think he would be able to convince them to not kick their asses while being hostile? My god you are stupid, do you really think thy would listen to the arguments of a group that clearly hates them and will not forgive anything?What do you think this shit would bring?It would only make his cause harder. Several leaders from pacifist and non paficist rebel groups had to forgive their enemies to bring peace faster.

Much better than "protagonist spits on the graves of everyone that the villain murdered and enslaved for no reason and stops him with the power of fwiendship and everybody forgives the villain and hugs in the end because the writers don't like writing real stakes or conflict or consequences"

Oh no, those poor fictional aliens that never existed

I'm guessing you write off all bad writing and mismanaged story telling in cartoons as acceptable because none of it is real

Yeah fuck Martin Luther King, fuck Gandhi, fuck Mandela,fuck Jesus, Muhammad and Moses fuck any leader who told his people to forgive the enemy crimes.

More like, it’s not worth comparing them to actual dictators, and everybody who does complain about “them getting away with it” are kinda sad and pathetic

>realistic scenario is bad writing
Edgy =/= good writing.

Gandhi was kind of a dick dad though, so who knows?

Hell, Raven Queen's mother is still imprisoned forever in a mirror.

People say it’s unrealistic, but this is what happens, we let these dictators go, not executed and sometimes not punished because peace is more important than punishing them

For a character i'm writing for I have her stuck in a contradiction, she starves for redeemption but the way she is doing it she will never get it.

>She is a shadow person
>She killed a teenager and took her place, this was the only way to live.
>Actually feels bad
>She pretends to be the said teenager, going through her school days, pretending to be the daughter of loving parents, acting as the person she ate with her friends
>She creates walls of her own imprisonment because of the guilt she forced upon herself.
>She seeks redemption, but the only person that can give it to her is dead and she ate her.

If you are going to set up a villain as being a dictator and make them do terrible things on a massively evil scale, you need to follow through and make them face consequences for the things they've done, not sweep all the shit they did under the rug so you can skip over conflict faster and all the characters hurt by the dictator can forgive him and be friends at the end. It's not complicated, it's simple buildup vs payoff

>giving a mass murderer comeuppance is edgy
>forgiving a mass murderer and befriending him is realistic
>talking a mass murderer into becoming a good guy without making him face justice for his crimes is realistic
Since when? How much of a snowflake do you have to be to believe this?

Yeah, it's a common aspect of one who has dwelled not one bit upon ethics or morality to just blindly demand "justice" and to discount forgiveness whenever possible. This show is actually a perfect example to use to explain to you what I mean. What would they gain from holding on to anger, to continue to demand vengeance? They couldn't win any actual conflict against even Yellow Diamond, much less White. They would only find their own loss amplified if they continued blindly seeking justice, but that's not even the real point I'm trying to make. By not connecting with the diamonds and offering acceptance, they never could have repaired all the lost gems on Earth. Even if they somehow had the capacity to make the diamonds pay for their prior transgressions, what would they have gained from such a thing? Would they really feel better, going home and having to know all those bubbled corrupted gems were never going to recover?

Justice is not a concept to be brandished by the simple, for it is overwhelmingly destructive. More often than not, when you seek justice from another, you lose even more yourself, and it's important to put that into perspective to make sure you aren't losing too much.

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Oh yes, the writers waiting until the ver last couple of episodes of the story to conveniently make it so that Steven didn't HAVE to resort to fighting (like most dictators and mass murders have to be brought down with) and just needed to use his extra convenient newfound diamond heritage to easily befriend the other diamonds and talk them into healing the corrupted gems makes it so much more realistic, it's not like they could have just as easily written it so that the only way for corruption to be reversed was by killing the diamonds

Since the ex african slaves choose to forgive whites instead of starting a war.

Since Hamas officially stated that If Israel give them their own country and part of Jerusalem they would forgive everything.

Since Japan and Vietnam decided that forgiving US war crimes like nukes and napalm would be better than being an enemy forever.

The smaller resistance is almost always forced to forgive the bigger agressor to avoid future conflicts

All orochimaru did was kill an old man.

So how do you like your redemption arcs?

Personally I always have a soft spot for the villain that gave up his life for someone that died indirectly because of him.

He kidnapped and used several young men and women at mad scientists experiments to make super soldiers or something, also he possessed a lot of people and this process kill the person he stole the body from.

Fuck off. As if there's any outcome where Steven's able to kill the Diamonds that wouldn't be even more forced. Like did you want him to use Shounen Rage to get really strong, or directly boosted by the power of friendship or some asinine nonsense like that? No, you would have griped just as much you jackass.

Nah, Steven leading a group of other homeworld gems to bring them down and proof them or disempower them somehow would have been way better than Steven winning over Blue and Yellow in a couple of sentences each and turning White good with a comeback, they wouldn't even have to kill them, imprisoning them or sending them away to the other side of the universe would have at least been some kind of consequence. Their rushed face turns and all the undeserved forgiveness bullcrap pulled with them was so bad that the dictator side of their characters had to be ignored and shit like the cluster had to be left barely acknowledged just to make it work, all the worst things they've done were hand waved and they were just watered down to being abusive parents to Pink Diamond.

Satan doesn't make much sense when you think about it like that