Why do the current Sonic comics fixate on being this super serious epic with no fun?

Not there, but as I recall people liked Flynn because he moved away from that.

>Sally will never appear on any official media.

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They’re probably stuck with a mandate to make it like Forces

Sega is a bit weird and treats spin-off titles as separate series with their own rules (like I think Archie was restricted from using characters from the Storybook games since those were a "different" license). They did a TSR one shot recently though, I haven't read it yet but I assume that was more comedic.

It was more comedic and in someways better than the main series.

It isn't even entertaining, that's my biggest issue. IDW Sonic is just so bland.

I miss Sonic Universe, all the fun shit was contained in that book

Why not make the main book like universe?

I never read any sonic comic. What should I begin with? I like shounen battle manga if that helps anything.

How much comedy do you want in your series? If it is a lot read 252-end of Archie + Universe.

depends on the type of comedy. If it's quips like in cape movies then 0. If it's actual situational humor and other kinds then it can go from 0 to literally anywhere as long as it doesn't get into the way of the story and action.

Then avoid IDW like the plague.

Does the same apply to IDW transformers? I know marvel and dreamwave also had their fair share of corny one-liners, if IDW has even more then I might not pick it up.

I dunno, but Sonic is loaded with unfunny quips constantly at odds with a heavily serious plot that constantly tries to remind you how serious it is

Sally was never an official Sonic character in the first place.

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Because that’s all the writers for it really know how to do, and all there’s really precedent for. It’s not like Duck Comics, where they have shorter self-contained stories in a stable location alongside their grand globe-trotting adventures, that allow the writers to play around with humorous scenarios and character interactions. For better or or worse, Sonic comics have consisted of these dramatic larger than life super hero-esque end of the world plots.

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>Americans comics have consisted of these dramatic larger than life super hero-esque end of the world plots.

Aren't superhero comics all about self-contained arcs?

Why does Sonic need a stable location?just put him on globe trotting adventures.

>with no fun?
You fun fags really are braindamaged, not even because of your preferences but your willful ignorance.
You're basing the "fun" levels off the cover? The recent Sonic comics haven't been remotely "super serious" we've had Eggman doing his usual scene chewing, mustache twirling, it's all just a game to me so don't spoil it by cheating dynamic.
The two new mooks are basically just Sleet and Dingo + Team Rocket, the Platypus is a more composed Snively, and destined to fall in the same arc given how Eggman reacted to him going for the jugular.

That loud lemur thing and the quiet comically serious sniper feel like another flavor of Blaze and Marine. So all in all, nothing new.

The only things given remote weight were Metal Sonic, who has always been either a big deal or a punching bag, and Eggman's virus but given Sonic's been infected by it, it's going to have some sort of cop out fix anyway. So the onnly things added that feel like they'd matter have been IMMEDIATELY reduced to irrelevance.

I hate Forces as much as the next person, but outside of vaguely referencing it, likely due to Sega mandates or something, the comics haven't been much like it.

They haven't been good, but that's not the same as bad or serious or whatever.

I'd say the only sin the current comics hold is fixating or being a whole bunch of fucking nothing. I almost miss the sudden cutaways and snowballing into nonsense of early Archie Sonic. Good or bad it was something and varied.

The comic is all about the world being broken down after a war and now showing a bunch of people in peril from a virus.
There needs to be more uplifting environments and sillier plots.

The comics should be more low key plots with more jokes and Sonic actually fighting Eggman. Not constantly worrying about the world being destroyed which rarely happens in the games.

The only other sonic comics i can think of are the Brits, which just consisted of him being an absolute cunt
If that were true, their continuities wouldn’t be the hot retcon-riddled mess they are.
>Why does Sonic need a stable location?
To provide the writers new things to do eith his character besides just save the world and make quips.
>just put him on globe trotting adventures.
That’s what he’s basically doing and the consensus is that it gets rather humdrum and samey after a bit.

That is a problem of bad storytelling then.

>tfw Sega is retarded so we won't have some kino about Buddy trying to save Infinite from himself

They aren't allowed to do anything with Sonic's character thanks to mandates.

The animated series managed to pull this off, for Sonic and capeshit.

>That is a problem of bad storytelling then.
Only ever telling one kind of story that you’ve already done is death is bad storycrafting.

Infinite is dead.

IDW is basically only telling 1 kind of story right now though.

That’s what i’m saying the problem is. Whether the story telling is good or not doesn’t really help if it’s the same thing over and over.

But why can't the comics be more than just serious, drawn out arcs.

Because the Writers for it don’t think they can be, or don’t know how to do anything else.

Good, she's fucking shit.

Almost every other Archie character was more interesting than Sally. Her only interesting feat was becoming a female Metal Sonic before the first reset button.

They're under the impression that a dark, heavily storyline-driven saga is the way to go. Unfortunately, it's the Sonic Underground type.

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Post-Reboot was great because it usually wasn't that.

They don't? Some of the covers do, but the stories are absolutely goofy.

Which IDW story was goofy?

Every attack by Rough and Tumble, they're complete non-threats that are only there for jokes. The subplot of Eggman being Mr. Tinker, especially when it ended through him remembering his love for Metal Sonic, was a silly one. Most of the threats have been pretty small or inconsequential, the platypus doctor is an absolute fop, and only the virus is a serious danger. Sonic the Hedgehog does deal in serious dangers, hell, the virus is sort of a shot in the arm after they took so long on such a simple arc as Neo Metal Sonic.

Those are only a few examples, nothing compared to the constant jokes found in Heroes and Unleashed.

That is still a far cry from the games where Eggman holds a race to get the Chaos Emeralds and what turns out to be a useless carpet.

Neither Heroes nor Unleashed are constant streams of jokes, and both featured big serious dangerous things (although Heroes was awful at portraying that until right at the end.) Neo Metal Sonic was taken straight out of Heroes even!

Heroes took its plot far less seriously than IDW does.

>Neither Heroes nor Unleashed are constant streams of jokes,
There are way way way more jokes there than there are in IDW.

>although Heroes was awful at portraying that until right at the end.
Also to add, that is because Heroes was supposed to be very light hearted, even Metal Sonic wasn't treated that seriously even if he was the most serious thing about the game.

Gotta sell those graphic novel compilations.

This is the literal opposite of the other Sonic thread on Yea Forums and I'm glad

Heroes just has awful dialog all around, the majority of it isn't comedic. Unleashed is much better written and has comedy here and there, but is mostly fairly sincere and doesn't have more than one joke every couple of levels.

What are they screeching about today?

Unleashed is much much more light hearted than IDW and feels like a slice of life Sonic game.

At least half of Heroes' dialogue is meant to be comedic.

I have my gripes with it, but Unleashed really was the best example of a "middle ground" for a Sonic story, at least in tone. I wish they'd just go back to that instead of trying to do one extreme or the other.

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At least half of it is laughable, we can agree to that.

Unleashed is probably the best balance between serious and comedic in a 3D game that actually attempts to tell a "deep" story (for a Sonic game). The only other one I can think of is Black Knight which while not being a great game has great writing, especially for Sonic as a character.

Heroes has a lot of bad comedy, but the majority of the dialogue is meant to be comedic.

Firing aaron webber because he "made the sonic brand a laughingstock", and being upset there haven't been a million sequels to unleashed, and that "Sonic games need to be dark again"

I don't understand how people consider Unleashed dark. It was pretty much slice of life Sonic game.

The best balance was Battle.

Did they not see the laughing stock that was Forces?

IDW's not that far off from Unleashed's tone, it just needs more character work (and more varied plots.) It's not dark at all, but it's able to take threats seriously every once in a while. It's a good balance, where Sonic can go out for ice cream or help a small business, but also Satan pops out of a destroyed planet.

The majority of Heroes' dialog is bad exposition or character interactions that are clear placeholders for gameplay excuses with nothing of substance. Honestly, Sonic 2006 has the worst plotting in the entire series, but I would put Heroes as the worst dialog.

Because Sonic's world is barebones to the point of not even having a name for the planet they're on. Even a lot of the stuff that gave it context, like G.U.N, either got abandoned or retconned.

What's to explore if the world your character is living in is deadly afraid of having its own identity?

IDW is further off from Unleashed's tone, with most of the serious stakes in the game brushed off as a joke. If anything it is the obvious, Eggman is treated as a serious threat and Eggpawns invading a town is treated as a crisis.

Emerl's final lines are fantastic, and I was not prepared for them when I played the game for the first time a few months ago.
>Am I going to die?

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*opposite

>thinks Heroes writing worse that Pontaff
Yikes

Wasn't one of the mandates that Sega has for the IDW comics that Sonic is literally not allowed to have character development

No, but people will say that it is. He just can't be too overly extremely depressed, which we only knew came up because he was only allowed to cry at his children being erased from existence instead of totally breaking down. There was also a mandate where he couldn't have a total defeat that didn't come with a victory some time soon after, but both mandates were put in place before the "modern run" that everybody loved even started.

Sonic Spinball

>The best balance was Battle.
Battle was on the darker side though, especially towards the end. And it did take itself pretty seriously overall. Not that I think that's bad or anything, but the reason why I wouldn't consider it ideal is because it's very easy to go overboard with the dark stuff and Sonic Team has a terrible track record in that regard. Unleashed's style of story would keep them reigned in but not to the point where the story might as well not be there at all.

>with most of the serious stakes in the game brushed off as a joke.
Right, by Sonic, who is a cocky character by nature. Most of everyone else was pretty freaked the fuck out by the planet being broken apart and some type of weird demon shit spewing out of it which covered the planet in negative energy.

I'm not arguing about the IDW thing, I could care less about it to be honest, but Unleashed absolutely had stakes and it treated them as such. Just because Sonic isn't quaking in his shoes over every little threat doesn't change that. Also, keep in mind, I'm saying the game had "stakes" not "it was super dark and mature for mature gamers like myself." I have no idea who would classify Unleashed like that, besides super autists.

You are right, but both stories had several calmer moments where the world wasn't in peril and even had some silly conflicts.
IDW has this for one issue, and it isn't well handled.

I think the problem with IDW is that even small threats like Egg Pawns are treated as serious threats that need several issues just to defeat, so the stakes are considered taken too seriously.

I mean, you might be right, but like I said, I'm about as uninvested in the IDW comic as you could be. I read a few issues and gave up on it pretty quickly because it didn't grab me at all.

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IDW has the characters in not much danger for nearly a quarter of each issue, if anything the "missions" could stand to be a bit more substantial or urgent. Egg Pawns don't need multiple issues to defeat nor are they considered super dangerous for anybody but the most harmless citizen. I can get the desire for more slice of life, but Sonic the Hedgehog's not going to spend multiple issues without some sort of exciting action going on.

Then introduce more silly plots and more fun locations, stop having the comic having people cowering in danger.
IDW takes its premise too seriously.

People stopped cowering in danger after issue 6 or so, and the main characters never did. Harmless citizens should take Eggman somewhat seriously, even Mario has the Toads scared of Bowser.

The first six issues was just fighting badniks/egg pawns.

>Mario has the Toads scared of Bowser.
It is played as a joke usually.

Yeah and there was zero stakes during those issues. They were boring, but they weren't dark at all, and they did provide a semblance of exciting action even as it was way too repetitive.

I don't know what counts as a joke to you, that's played straight and only comes off as silly at all because Bowser and Toads look silly.

They were treated more serious than a random episode of Sonic X.

Shit dude, if you want Sonic X filler levels of nothing going on, you should have said so. I thought we were talking about the games, but Sonic X was a master of having plot that never mattered even as it was happening.

Even the games rarely take stuff this seriously, go play Unleashed when Eggman gets rocks thrown at him or when Professor Pickle is complaining about the food he was offered by Eggman.

Unleashed doesn't take itself as seriously till the end, which even then is Eggman wanting to open up a theme park.

Who even has the rights to her right now?

In Sonic Adventure, the townspeople mostly go on their merry way until Eggman launches a nuke at the city.
Unleashed is sort of the same thing, but less so considering the higher stakes.

Sega does.

So the humans didn't care until Eggman presented them with a threat, great, that means Eggman should be taken seriously as a threat by most harmless citizens.

Do we ever see normal life for the citizens in IDW? It always looks like they are prepared for or recovering from an attack.

Presumably SEGA should.

We spent almost no time with them, but yes we saw a bit in Rough and Tumble's. Just like Unleashed is the only time that Sonic's ever cared about every day life and that was because of the hub worlds wanting NPCs instead of being totally barren like SA1.

We saw a lot more of that in Archie, huge shame.

This is the same game where a major character has his name inspired from one of those random NPCs.

Would you read this story?

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Yeah Archie was also really long and would spend its downtime in between long arcs and between two books. You can make the case that IDW doesn't spend its time efficiently, because it doesn't, but especially to say that IDW is darker than Archie is laughable.

At some point it's obvious he just makes shit up and pretends it was planned all along, just like every plot he writes.

Even post-reboot had a lot of prominent human characters living their normal lives.

>Archie went full blown furry drama?
And that's ONLY because of Ken Penders. Had Penders never were employed to write for Archie Sonic, the comics would not only never indulge to extreme drama, complexity and romanticism, we would also still keep receiving Archie Sonic issues without any problem.

It throwing serious crisis after serious crisis does affect tone though.

There's been two "crises." One is Neo Metal Sonic which was just a big warship, a completely typical Sonic plot, and the next is the virus which hasn't even happened yet. Over what, sixteen issues? That's not a lot of big threats.

Considering how they all have a massive effect on the world yeah.

Neither one has had a massive effect on the world.

IDW wants to be Archie but can't, either because they've run out of juice or IDW/SEGA mandates have finally become too heavy. And we can't be Sonic Channel or Universe because the series has to keep people hooked.

So what we get is this toned-down advertisement instead although it's steadily improving, honestly.

People are losing interest anyway.

>never an official
Being in licensed materials by SEGA makes her "official", barring mainline game canon.

People loved the sillier arcs like Champions and adored universe so stfu.

Nice naked Coco Bandicoot there.

Yes, which existed back in post-Penders Archie too. Archie got around this by having shitloads of other characters and frequent new locations to keep things interesting. Now that for the most part we can't have that either, the main characters' restrictions really began to show.

I hate IDW Eggman, the changes to him ruined everything.

True, but fuck I just wanna hope it'll get better and stabalize.

Oh I meant nothing against either of those, only that "long epic stories = more issues" is the logic SEGA's going for here.

Archie Eggman was basically what they're trying to do with IDW Eggman, but he was as much goofy fun as he was amoral scheming monster. IDW Eggman could've been his own unique thing with his good self at the beginning, but they copped out in favor of trying to replicate the heights of Archie.

Which of the Sonic comic series are the best?

You realize he's not insanely evil all the time, right? He can be goofy too, nothing in his behavior so far is out of line with his Archie depiction.

Ian's pre-reboot Archie run is still the best in my opinion, but the Archie reboot is consistently decent. IDW is just kinda there right now.

Why haven't Sonic and him fought yet?

Fleetway is consistently fun after the first ten or so are completely awful. Archie is mostly fun from 1 to 50, but not consistently. After that, it's a trainwreck that's only fun to read with other people up until about 160 when a new writer, editor and artist all give the book new life. The comic had a reboot at 252 with a crossover with Mega Man which made a good jumping on point with fun small stories, up until a very disappointing crossover with Mega Man X. Sonic Universe is almost entirely good, as a side book to Archie's comics. And then IDW is mostly just okay.

Which is to say, if you want a recommendation, look up Worlds Collide, the Sonic/Mega Man crossover. It's a high point and it requires no real knowledge of the comic's history since it uses 100% game knowledge.

>You realize he's not insanely evil all the time, right? He can be goofy too
His very first action after getting his memories back was to develop a virus that turns its victims into massively infectious mindless invulnerable goo monsters. He considers this to be a rousing success.

he is off from the games

>sillier plots
As a zoomer pre boost 3D Sonic fag, I like Sonic as a beacon of silly in an otherwise intense world. Pontac and Graff were a mistake.

Did you hate Heroes or Unleashed? Because in that game Sonic wasn't the only silly character.

Sonic and his friends should definitely be able to have a laugh, but the world around them needs a little contrasts for it to hit its mark.

The comic is not as light hearted as Unleashed or Heroes or Battle.

I can't fucking believe Dr. Eggman is evil now

He isn't that evil in the games.

None of those games are the same amount of light hearted. Heroes has zero stakes and mostly not a lot of comedy either, Unleashed invested in strong character writing with short dilemmas and big threatening stakes, and Battle was super fucking dark in the second half with fairly little comedy. Stop being willfully ignorant about your favorite wildly different games.

I remember a lot of time with Chip and Pickle making food jokes, and jokes like the natives of Mazuri throwing rocks at Eggman.

I remember silly things like Amy thinking Vector asks her on a date and Amy fighting Sonic to try to get him to marry her. Also Charmy stinging the hell out of Eggman.

Also the ending taking place in a theme park.

You don't remember Chip talking about how saving the world puts him in eternal slumber, about Eggman summoning Satan, or Eggmanland being a giant lava filled hellworld. You don't remember Vector and Amy's dialog being so terrible it's barely a joke, with the Chaotix also being the only campaign without any drama. You don't remember Battle being about how you have to kill your new friend because he's become a superweapon, after lamenting the fact that he's a superweapon that caused Gerald Robotnik's downfall.

You don't remember a lot.

twitter.com/Nitomatta/status/1115388572037603330?s=19
If only you knew how bad things really are.

I do, but those arent the highlights for me.

Man you are no fun.

Unleashed was basically a Sonic movie (and a good one) in game. Probably one of my favorite piece's of Sonic media. I doubt IDW will even adapt it since it was the last arc Archie Comics adapted before they lose their license.

Honestly, the only thing I love about Black Knight is the soundtrack, but it kinda gives a good angle about Sonic's motivations as a character.

>with no fun?

I thought they were fun. Although the last issue of metal overlord thing was a bit of a wet fart.

Ken Penders definitely a nonce.

IDW Sonic is for all intents and purposes a globe trotter thanks to

>planet still doesn't have a name
Fuck's sake Sega, come on.

Blame SoJ creating a setting snarl with SoA

I love how the japs are still salty over SoA being more successful than them.

I love how we can always blame anything on that no matter what actually happens

It's not super serious, if anything it's far less serious than it used to be.

The problem is it's completely and utterly unwilling to give a shit. Nothing happens from month to month. Can someone even tell me what of consequence even happens in issues 13 and 14? Can you give me a single good reason I couldn't just jump straight from 12 to 15? I struggle to even remember what happened.

Because Satan TSR isn't a fucking mainline game retard. The last Sonic game was Forces, and before it failed, they had to based it on that based on SEGA's orders.

Speaking of Penders. Have you checked out his twitter?

>open Twitter
>Ken Penders is trending
>oh shit oh shit is he finally dead??!
>he's still alive, he just said some dumb stuff or w/e
>mfw

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>high stakes means it's serious
That's fucking dumb, you're fucking dumb. Evil robot going to destroy the world is the most basic, simple, black and white narrative in the world, and the comic only uses it to create continuity inna series that is otherwise just a blue hedgehog having fun beating up robots with recognizable side characters and a few new additions. It's as lighthearted as a series can get.

and that's a good thing

Why has Sonic not fought Eggman yet?

because idw is stupid

I swear people seem to tie in everything that happened in Forces and call that the bluk of the comic as a whole, when even Infinite isn't mentioned once in the comic at all. Forces is as relavent to IDW as the general name of a "Freedom Fighter" is to IDW Sonic. It's just a loose connetion to the most recent 3D Sonic game, and that's it. Otherwise it's 100% original content at this point, with some more references to things that happen with Metal in the past. What else could they do? Unleashed is 12 years ago, Colors is 10 and Generations is 8. Do you really want a Lost World tied in Sonic start off? What else could you do that isn't starting off from a entire decade ago?

>Hasn't played SA1, SA2, Shadow or Forces.

Not just any race but a race to see who is the fastest.

I always thought the character drama was pretty good. You can't just have pastel-colored vermin jumping on robots every issue; if that's your thing then go play the games. That's why I haven't read IDW yet.

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>Half of ken penders tweets is him bitching about trump and comic fans who are sick of political shit in comics
>said sonic a male feminist
Why I am not surprised?

Archie was serious because it had stakes and a world full of great characters, IDW is neutered to all hell in comparison.

I started with Archie Sonic #159. It's the end of Penders' run and one of his better issues and it's immediately followed by Flynn's run, recently finished it and was very satisfied (except for the reboot which dropped a lot of plot points, but post-reboot itself is still great).

We'll never see anyone on par with the great Echidnacide again.

>You're basing the "fun" levels off the cover?
I think OP posted Sonic cover art because...wait for it...this is a thread about the Sonic comic!

Besides, those two covers look great. Most of them are serviceable, there are only a few stinkers like the one of Sonic riding a badnik or the other few (Tangle & Whisper included) with the lazily slapped on character concept art.

>big fan of the SatAM cartoon as a kid
>had some of the first few issues and random issues up to #30
>never saw it for sale as time went on, so drifted away
>finally got back into it around 2008, do archive binge
>goddamn most of the comic sucks ass
>but now it's starting to get good
>keeps getting better and better
>around 2010ish Yea Forums starts getting into it
>we have The Ride
>in 2011 Flynn finally does something no other writer has ever done, and made Sally interesting
>by 2013, shit is awesome
>then crossover event/genesis wave retcon
I'll never forget the magical two years of 2011-2013.

>in 2011 Flynn finally does something no other writer has ever done, and made Sally interesting

I must've missed that part. Sally was never interesting. He did save Bunnie though.

>I'm about as uninvested in the IDW comic as you could be
Not true, there are literally billions of people less invested in it.

>hasn't played more than 4 Sonic games
Eggman has always been a good mix of episodic villain and big bad, he has great range. There's also more to him than just being evil, not too much, but some.

Ian seems to want him to only be some ebin final boss mastermind even though Eggman has always been active and thrown himself into situations.

I can't believe they recycled Metal Overlord and didn't even bother making him gold to at least differentiate his newly Emerald-powered up version from his Heroes appearance. The issue right before it was decently fun, at least.

Sally's plot arc from 230 to 247 was very good, but it got cut short thanks to the crossover/retcon.

IDW is the Sonic that games fans thought they wanted but it's clear now that Archie 160 to its end (WU notwithstanding) was the superior product. People rag on the furry drama and politics in the dark ages, for good reason, but it was unironic kino when Flynn took over.
>council of Acorn, we need to do a thing
>no, fuck you
>fuck me!? FUCK YOU!
>*great character moments ensue*
Plus there aren't any more deep relationships past "best friends," no more deaths, no heavy emoting...I'm surprised they brought back the PG-13 body horror in the robot virus though, at least there's that.

She was interesting specifically because she wasn't herself.

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>IDW is the Sonic that games fans thought they wanted
Holy shit this.
>No OCs, only Sonic and immediate friends, and Eggman
>No worldbuilding, the games didn't have it
>barebones story, after all, the games have simple stories
And then they complain when it is inevitably dull.

>Nicole realizing she's not a real living creature and could be replaced by a piece of malicious malware and nobody would know the difference

That's brutal.

IDW Sonic's stories would be just fine in a game, but there's no occasionally good and mostly mediocre gameplay to back it up so the story's faults show more clearly (not that people don't rag on the games' stories).

It falls in line with that mindset depressed people get that they're replaceable or don't matter to others, potentially leading to them thinking they'd be better off dead.

May I remind you that SoJ were the ones responsible for Sonic 06 while it was a Western fan and company that made Sonic good again with Sonic Mania? We can blame SoJ for everything bad about Sonic.

Yeah... no. The Flynn archie stuff was all things that Penders came up with and Flynn had the luxury of refining the idea. Flynn drifts into the grimdark stuff unless he too is kept in check.

You just like edgey shit.

No, I just like stuff that feels like it matters. It's fine if you prefer stuff like AoStH and Pontaff writing, they have their merits, and much as I might enjoy those, I just happen to like stories with a good balance of action, drama, and slice of life. Again there's nothing wrong with preferring Pontaff's writing, it's just not for me.

>Mecha-Sally shows up
>Sonic fights her and snarks like he usually does
>She escapes for some reason
>Sonic maybe tells himself that he'll save her someday
>Repeat next issue
Ian wasn't going anywhere with the idea for it to matter when it got rebooted out.

I liked the Egg boss concept, but Ian could trim some bosses away.

How is the playtypus doctor?

user is that page supposed to convince people? Because it just looks like typical melodramatic furry trash.

The format encourages certain tendencies over others. Then, rather than accepting that the medium itself could have problems, critics blame politics du jour.

>The format encourages certain tendencies over others.
Comics have been used to tell every kind of story under the sun.
The only limits are those on the fault of the creators, and only the lazy and inept make excuses other wise. Also
>politics du jour.
Stop interspersing random french with english, it makes you look like a faggot

Most Sonic fans have absolutely no grasp on the basics of writing, so they try to connect it to other things they don't like.

The problem is a lack of substance per issue in conjunction with stories that lack creativity. There's no unforseen complications or unexpected twists, as everything is telegraphed far too heavily and most story beats serve simply to segue into the next rather than get a reaction. Almost every conflict is resolved in the exact same way, there's rarely even any visual penash to make one generic robot/goon beatdown different from the next. Every time something clever could happen, the comic feels the need to explain itself first, ruining the moment. The writing is sterile and condescending at its core. There's nothing here for a reader, the writer is hitting his checkboxes on the path to his eventual "payoff" instead of actually writing stories with a competent structure, varied conflicts and resolutions, and engaging surprises. That's the problem, not "being set after Forces" or "being too serious." This isn't a Sega problem or an IDW problem, this is an Ian problem.

He has no character yet besides "really likes Eggman" and "smug gentleman sinister guy archetype." Most of the PCs are poorly characterized, it's weird.

How can they have sex when they have no genitals?

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They unzip their fur pouch and out plop the genitals.

They’re only being like the games. Like holy shit, Sonic Team’s shitshows take blue hedgehog go fast way too seriously.

>and the game fans continue to claim it's Ian's fault IDW is bad when the majority of the thread says Ian's Archie run was the best
Anything to avoid admitting their chief complaint was "not muh Sonic!"

lol

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None of those things are why iDW is boring and Ian having peaked years ago is irrelevant. A lot of Angelo DeCesare's Archie stories basically fit those guidelines and they're some of the better strips to come out of Archie.

I wanted a comic that was like the games prior to Pontaff taking over. IDW is not that.

>No OCs, only Sonic and immediate friends, and Eggman
We still have Tangle and Whisper so no.

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>games prior to Pontaff taking over.
So almost completely plotless?

Far better than what we have now.

Most of these are terrible, and the ones that aren't are either better versions of Archie stories or stock plots. Trying to force stuff that delves into background details is just counterintuitive to the brand and ripe for a big fat rejection halfway in or a retain years later.

At least user tried. I'd rather read most of these than what we're getting.

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>i wanna plotless comic
And you almost have that with IDW. What's the issue?

It isn't fun like the pre-Pontaff games.

Games were not this poorly paced.

You had gameplay to distract you.

This, but another thing to consider: How much of that would Sega have signed off on?
Remember, they blocked Eggman Nega and Black Doom/the Black Arms back at Archie.

I played Sonic Battle for the story so that isn't always the case.

>its OK for Sega to have an iron grip on every aspect of the comic
>By the way they continue to make shit games with no quality control and OK'd the Sonic Movie and design
Fuck out of here you dumb faggot

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Probably a lot actually, a lot of these are Sonic vs Eggman or have new villains.
The question really is how many new villains would SEGA have allowed to be added.

More stuff happened in Sonic Adventure 2 than in 15 issues of IDW Sonic despite being the same price.

Ian was only good when he had Penders' mess to clean up.

It's pretty much just an average Saturday morning cartoon level of action. How much of a gigantic pussy do you have to be to think IDW is even remotely edgy? Flynn's run in Archie was darker, he actually killed characters, made Charmy mindbroken from Eggman's machine, and had Eggman torture his own henchmen and Snivelu by leaving them in solitary confinement.

I would read a comic that adapted each of these plots. This is what fun looks like.

>We still have Tangle and Whisper so no.
I hope you're not implying that the new recent OCs that were birthed only months ago are somehow able to convince and appeal thousands and thousands of heart-broken disappointed fans that loved many Archie characters (excluding theses created by Penders), the ones who have lived for many years.

>inb4 they are a minority
Did you know Ken Penders went to the trending section on Twitter just a few hours ago? Drop this excuse already, please.

>How much of a gigantic pussy do you have to be to think IDW is even remotely edgy?
you have cucks/tripfags thinking shit like Forces was edgy, everybody is a pussy these days

>made Charmy mindbroken from Eggman's machine
This was a very stupid way to regress him to his SEGA-canon self after years of him being a proid and mature prince.

Can't say Ian always knew best.

I am saying that game fans don't even want Tangle and Whisper as part of the main cast.

Pretty much all of them that aren't trying to pry into existing stuff.

To put it in a few words, I'd rather read a comic where each month has a self-contained but unique adventure that slowly builds to a payoff later than a comic where almost every issue is the same story with characters swapped around in order to slowly build to a payoff later. The format is fine, just do something.

>To put it in a few words, I'd rather read a comic where each month has a self-contained but unique adventure that slowly builds to a payoff later than a comic where almost every issue is the same story with characters swapped around in order to slowly build to a payoff later. The format is fine, just do something.
Fair point. A Sonic Boom or Sonic Universe format would probably work best in the long run, rather than year-long story arcs.

This and a lot of those plots were pretty imaginative.

Even as a year long story you can make it work, just don't make most of your issues inconsequential and indistinct at the same time. Most of the first 12 issues are exactly the same. Do something different with them. If Issue 5 was about the Chaotix and Sonic actually doing detective work and finding Eggman at the end just as Shadow is causing a scene, it'd make for a much better issue. If Sonic's adventure on the Egg Fleet was him trying to navigate his way out of a labyrinthine maze of hallways and vents while avoiding Neo Metal Sonic it would be thrilling. Just do something to spice it up.

Serious Sonic > quipy comedic Sonic

At least even if it's badly written you can usually laugh at how absurdly edgy Serious Sonic is. Literally no one gets any kind of enjoyment out of shit like "Baldy Mcnosehair"

>Evil Mall
>Tiny Adventure
>Ancient Turtle
>Treasure Adventure
>Satirical Money/Politics/Social stories
>Fairyland
>Cowboys
>Technojourney
>Heist story
>Wrestling story
>Thriller
These are good ideas, even if the finer details suck. The rest are bad.

You need enough substance to fill a year long arc. IDW stories don't have that.

That is a lot of the stories listed.

Only sort of. Let's take the first year of IDW as an example, right?

So the setup is that we're leading to a confrontation with Metal Sonic. We've got twelve issues to fill, and we need to introduce the idea of the world and cast in that time while also planting seeds and keeping interest high. So obviously we start with a story that establishes the status quo, a bunch of robots rampaging around and civilians trying to stop them. Then we pull in Sonic and his buddies as the force that's keeping people secure and trying to figure out what's going on. So the first issue is going to play out largely the same, just introducing more characters at once. But from there, then what? What do we value and why do we value it, what matters in order to set the stakes and make this set of stories feel like they're important? Why not make the second issue be about the characters trying to assist the civilians in some way rather than defeating their problems for them? This implicitly tells the audience that the extended cast is doing this all over, showing us what the heroes want to accomplish while taking away questions of what happens when they're not around. Like, say they have to get a power plant back up and running to keep a city's defenses going?

From there we introduce the wisps and two minor villains very quickly to set the seeds when they matter later and continue building a sense of place. This isn't an idyllic world, there's jerks, there's crazy entities that have power but can be subjugated. From there you have Eggman appear before Sonic directing his forces in order to establish WHY they think Eggman is back after initially dismissing it and why he would search for him. Then you segue into Sonic and a group of characters who do this for a living having an adventure of actually tracking him down, which allows you to continue building a sense of what this world is like while showing variety in the skills of the protagonists and the conflicts they face.

Archie left Penders cleanup behind after the first twenty or so issues, and it kept being fun for over seventy more. Hell, a lot of good stories are post reboot. All Penders supplied was a ton of hanging plot points so the run could start off by resolving a lot of payoffs at once.

That's not weird, Sonic characters pretty much always start off simple and only get more complexity half the time. Thunderbolt, Metal Sonic and Pika didn't have a ton of different character traits to each of them.

I don't think Ian Flynn either is capable or wanted to bother with the effort of planning a story that complex.

I truly believe the year long arcs are partially due to Ian not wanting to spend the time planning out multiple story arcs in a year, so he takes a short story arc and stretches it for a year so he doesn't have to spend as much effort planning it.

This would then be the perfect place for the Sonic/Silver/Whisper story, as their trail would run cold after finding "Eggman" but seeing that he's not behind all of it. In fact, it would flow even better if they find the other "Eggman" at the heart of the old base, allowing Whisper's hatred to be more clearly visualized, and then lead directly into the reveal that this is Metal Sonic. Now you have an escape story where they need to flee the base and regroup, and then chase after Metal with their combined forces to thwart his plans.

By making each individual story have a purpose and its own unique conflict and interlocking relation to another story, they suddenly have substance and meaning and start to flow like an actual story arc. Instead of four issues of Sonic dicking around followed by multiple empty fight scenes followed by a big "Epic" finale, you now have Sonic and friends defending besieged cities when a surprise raid happens, investigating these happenings, being shocked at what they find while meeting new people along the way, and then following through on these revelations with a desperate chase and showdown.

The thing is, this isn't actually any more complex. It's the same story with different objectives and actions per issue. It's the same setup, with the same characters and the same pacing. All that I've suggested changing is where time is spent and how to connect the dots, and even what I've laid out is a rough, simple outline of events.

There's no excuse for the comic to be as disjointed as it is. The editorial staff isn't even bothering to ask for second drafts.

I still believe your attempt requires more work when it comes to planning though.

Sounds better as a cartoon.

I mean yeah, I guess.
But if I'm some jackass on an image board doing it for free, surely someone who's actually paid to write 20 pages a month can revise their own story better than I can, to say nothing of the guy whose job is to look at the pitch for the year and make suggestions on how to improve it.

By the way, someone please explain exactly why my fanfic garbage is bad. I'm no pro, this is a shit solution, absolutely trash this writeup if you'd please.

Was in Sonic Spinball.

It isn't bad, i would prefer an idea with more substance or more interesting shorter ideas but you salvaged the idea Ian put forward.

Naw dude it's perfect IDW needs to hire you right now if the comics was this everything would be amazing

>Completely mutilated in a bombing raid; literally just a head, a torso and an arm left
>Never wanted to be a freedom fighter; no status, no combat training, no special powers, literally just a normal girl attached to a chunk of robotics
>Her only major focus points are unwillingly fighting against her friends, watching her true love get put into a coma (was originally supposed to literally fucking die for real) and running into filthy mechs taunting her about how great it is to replace your body with cold, unfeeling metal

You know, fun!

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b8.
IDW has so many mandates that You cant do jack shit to anyone and sonic isnt even allowed to lose or show too much emotion

Doesn't count. SEGA of Japan had nothing to do with it.

You probably could with good story planning.

IDW has as many mandates as Archie had, we just learned more about them over time and then exaggerated the fuck out of them because Sonic fandom's persecution complex is legendary.

My criticism is it isn't fanfic garbage, it's a very vague summary of fanfic garbage. It isn't even the sort of stupid "if I wrote the comic I would have all these stories happen and they'd all kick ass" wish fulfillment that makes up, it just sort of says "I'd do the old arc but better." It doesn't really mean anything because you haven't actually said anything, just promised that whatever it is you would do would be of higher quality.

I agree it's vague and there's no way you can call it better than what exists given it's an outline. I don't agree about it being "I'd do X but better" since I was talking about restructuring rather than actually improving the quality of the writing. I was hoping you'd tear down my suggestions on how to better make the story flow, like changing issues focused on fights into issues focused on external problems or changing the placement of the Silver/Whisper story. Maybe say that the back and forth of chasing-and-fleeing would get tedious or something.

Regardless, thank you for not sucking my dick and actually being critical. There's not enough people like that.

I think that's a bit off.

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In all fairness to that user, given the FF are gone you might as well make up your own stories at this point.

He was slowly getting somewhere, they had that worm thing. Apparently Eggman's modifications would have stuck and she would be unroboticized to look very close to her reboot design, complete with closed jacket and ring blades.

Sonic is about running and running is all about building momentum. When Ian took over in 160 he started building momentum by killing off droves of old characters, which help in re-introducing classic villains as legitimate threats and shattering the status quo.

Do you understand? The many characters concieved during the comic's +10 year run were used as fuel. Their bodies were shoveled into the engine to build up a momentum that carried the entire rest of the run. People make fun of the dark age and rightly so, but the characters, lore and setting it brought made an excellent foundation to tell a story with.

There is no momentum in IDW. The firing shot that was supposed to kick off IDW is Sonic Forces. What a joke. Like a certain other franchise they ignored the whole "buildup" part and went straight to the payoff, which feels undeserved and hollow.

If they were smart they would have kept the momentum going by bringing over characters, lore and plot points from the previous iteration. You know, exactly the same thing Archie did successfully with their own reboot? But it's too late now. Sonic is doomed to stumble eternally.

You are salvaging an idea, but I still wish this war setting was put to rest already. This is Sonic not Terminator.

Based

Mandates prevented anything from the old continuity from being carried over.

If Lost Hedgehog Tales is to be believed, it was a decision by a higher up to have the whole "Mecha Sally shows up, doesn't do much, leaves" thing.
Whether it's true or not, Ian acknowledged that that formula killed her threat/impact.

The stretch between the Genesis arc and the reboot was quite possibly the most poorly-planned and insulting thing ever.

The war bit seems to be pretty much done, and thankfully Sonic himself was specifically not involved with the army this time around.

Kaminski gets a little unfairly dumped on, but only a little. He was the worst fucking editor, only better than Gabrie because he had actual talent working under him to salvage some of the bullshit.

Well, Endangered Species was part of that stretch and we all know what happened there...

i thought by some miracle the lara su chronicles finally came out. i was deeply disappointed

Even before that, we had bullshit like
>Naugus becoming the new King and everybody accepting it without question, even as his mind has to share space with the three wizards that he got fused from
>Mina trying to force Nicole into exile because "technology is bad, mmmkay" and everybody ignoring all she's done for them because Mina's a singer
>Bunnie getting de-roboticized by Naugus, something that was never possible before and something she would never accept
>The tease that roboticization was going to be a threat again, only for them to say "Nope, not ever" and that Sally was a total fluke

>Naugus becoming the new King and everybody accepting it without question, even as his mind has to share space with the three wizards that he got fused from

Well, he is legally the rightful king.

>Mina trying to force Nicole into exile because "technology is bad, mmmkay" and everybody ignoring all she's done for them because Mina's a singer

Well, she was 100% correct.

>Bunnie getting de-roboticized by Naugus, something that was never possible before and something she would never accept

Well, it was something people always wanted to see.

>The tease that roboticization was going to be a threat again, only for them to say "Nope, not ever" and that Sally was a total fluke

Well, she did fulfill the traitor storyline with satisfaction, warranting Silver's existence.

I want something more lighthearted than a worldwide virus, post-reboot was great.

Doesn't matter. Everybody in that run went full-retard.

The only good thing that came out of it was Shard.

I can't follow that conclusion. To me it was the most interesting part of the story.

They adopt a democracy which just causes in-fighting and leaves the door open to outside claimants. Times of peace begets restlessness, and to a people so long under seige they instead seek out enemies among themselves. With poor writing none of this would have worked out, but they pulled it off if you ask me. Naugus uses logic and facts to manipulate people instead of magic spells.

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A verbal abdication of your throne while under physical and psychological duress in foreign territory is not legally binding for extremely obvious reasons. This is ignoring that Naugus is an escaped terrorist with nothing but his word to prove this even occurred.

Agreements with wizards are generally upheld. Bad things come to those that ignore the wizard/oracles.

That wizard tried to kill all of them twice, taking his word at face value is tantamount to treason.

No it isn't. Plus he showed that he could

A. Protect them.
B. Subject himself to the council's demands.
C. Heal all wounds.

What the fuck did the acorns/freedom fighters ever do, except invite robotnik's takeover, betray the council on a whim and let the bodies pile up? Naugus would've been a far better leader if not for his magic AIDS.

>106915842
>>Naugus becoming the new King and everybody accepting it without question
Naugus being king was hated by everybody and only accepted because everybody hated the king anyway, so to them it was a lateral move.

>Mina trying to force Nicole into exile because "technology is bad, mmmkay" and everybody ignoring all she's done for them because Mina's a singer
NICOLE was a god-spy who was listening in on everything everybody heard and could turn anybody into paste with a thought, her being the city absolutely needed to go.
>Bunnie getting de-roboticized by Naugus, something that was never possible before and something she would never accept
She didn't accept it, but Naugus crystal magic reverting the form to its natural state rather than roboticized was honestly something I thought was actually clever and it was disappointing nothing followed up on it. I wanted to see Naugus use that as a real power against Eggman when he was roboticizing folks.

Post-reboot was all about a global threat, stop being an idiot.

Too bad the king that made the deal not only confirmed the deal was real, but also that it was a valid contract. The whole point was that, for all of Naugus' shittery, he was just another consequence of the monarchy that had been fucking up the kingdom for years.

The worst part about most of these plot points is how they resolved or dismissed, not that most of them were brought up at all.

Still felt far more up beat than IDW.

>Overthrowing the current monarch because this convict seems better and swallowing his flawed "claim" to the throne because it suits your needs, ignoring actual law.
That's fucking treason.

>Preboot made the king a feeble old man so Sally could take the throne as a just and beloved leader
>15 years pass and this never happened
>Reboot just made him a good king

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Okay but the actual law said that Naugus' contract was valid, and Max confirmed it the second he was recovered to the Freedom Fighters.

Ian Flynn lost his passion for Sonic when the Preboot universe got canned.

In that case Max would've just been left to rot. The fact that Naugus saved him shows that he was acting in good faith, which makes it a binding agreement.

>Too bad the king that made the deal not only confirmed the deal was real, but also that it was a valid contract.
You mean the guy whose position was handed over to his son and who has been mentally unwell for some time now? The wheelchair bound raving looney?

Yeah man, that seems real legit and totally not like a mentally dull old man agreeing to the broad idea since his mind isn't keen enough to parse the finer details anymore. What an amazing argument: man with mind altering magic says king agreed to something decades ago while in a helping prison, mentally ill old king goes "yeah."

The War of the Roses was fought over less contrived circumstances.

>Okay but the actual law said that Naugus' contract was valid
This is never said. The council just acts like this is legit because it suits their interests.

Post-Boot had a lot of great moments though.

Max wasn't a mentally dull old man when he confirmed that, he was still the king and it was basically right after he had been reinstated. When he brought it up, Sonic and friends rightly stated "well he's an asshole so fuck the law!" and kicked him out anyway. But the council hates the king and already deals with messes Max made all the time, and Elias didn't even want to be king. All Naugus did was take the same argument where he was technically correct to a group of people less anarchic and morally righteous and he was able to get his way.

It's just another argument for why the monarchy was a huge mistake, and why Max was an awful king. Honestly, before Elias (dumbly) stated he wanted his kingdom back, I thought it was going to be about finally abolishing the monarchy.

The dialogue was also better in the older titles and the characters were able to express emotions.

Yeah, but you can see he started to lose steam.

All I really remember from it is Breezie from Adventures becoming a media mogul and crushing on Metal Sonic.

Nah, post-reboot had loads of steam once it gets past the introductory arc. It only loses its momentum after the fucking awful decision to split everything into 10 page stories for the last year.

For sure. I mean, stories generally have a prince or princess who can take over once the empire is overthrown so it doesn't just devolve into anarchy, but Sonic was unironically too smart for that.

I disagree. The egg bosses stood head and shoulders over the old ones, and the freedom fighters got some some of the bloat cut out. Though of course I'd prefer if it didn't happen.

That's how it worked IRL too. Honestly, most claims were pretty icky, like a distant cousin assuming the throne instead of the rightful heir, or just faking the whole thing. Naugus had some sort of claim and got the support of the right people.

>Max wasn't a mentally dull old man when he confirmed that
He just got over having a mental collapse (Quest) and SSS4 casts doubts over all that anyway with the mind control shit.

Probably the end of post-reboot

bump

Remember when they brought back that owl from a single one-panel joke in the Gallagher era to lead a spy team of "Secret Freedom Fighters"?

Yes it was terrible.

And altogether pointless as nothing really happened in the end.

Wasn't that the team with Shard?

Yes.
Also had Elias, Silver and that one unlucky Lynx.
Maybe a fifth member I'm blanking on too.

Wolf twins who were originally supposed to be Hershey.

>IDW Sonic sales still tracking way above any other Sonic comic run
>Yea Forums is pretending it's a disaster and that anything more than a minority of people are disappointed by what they got
What a wellspring of absolutely shit taste

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The only difference between Archie and IDW mandates is no one is allowed to die now and 2 worlds is a thing, but still unspoken because worldbuilding is verboten.

Archie had balls while IDW have pussyfeet.

The sales are also dropping like crazy.

Agreed, post-Penders preboot made me actually care about a lot of the characters and found the senile former king's 'thank you' in this scene to be more impactful than I expected.

"Sally Acorn" is the name of the squirrel that pops out of defeated robots in the genesis games (yes, all of those animals had names). So she was always a game character first & foremost.

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Do not reply to Hesseposters.

And yet you post an image with a filename that proves otherwise.

Sally Acorn was a shitty Americanization that somehow got adapted into the SatAM cartoon. The squirrel in the games was just known as Ricky.

Sales-wise it's fine, but that doesn't mean the writing's anything more than passable.

>There is no momentum in IDW. The firing shot that was supposed to kick off IDW is Sonic Forces. What a joke. Like a certain other franchise they ignored the whole "buildup" part and went straight to the payoff, which feels undeserved and hollow.
This. Also, deaths mattered then In Forces a whole buch of people are killed, but it's glossed over and never addressed, the only one who reacts to the fact that Eggman went as far as he did in IDW was Shadow. Other than that it was treated like any other time Eggman does something to inconvenience people. Other than that, Whisper is the only one who hates Eggmanas much as a reasonable person would after all that's happened.

>tfw he can't even look Naugus in the eye

It was rape, wasn't it?

>tfw enjoyed those

>warranting Silver's existence
That's what's wrong with her and shows how truly evil she was. No one should warrant Silver's existence, watching him get BTFO each time was great except in 30YL where nothing was great.

Well they had to do something with names like "Cucky". I buy it.

I agree with you on the rest, but postboot was most certainly less "dark" than preboot. The world being split wasn't even a huge deal because Chaos made sure it was inhabitable. The only really edgy stuff was just Eggman giving the Egg Bosses a raw deal on their upgrades and the Black Comet arc.

Really? That scene where Sonic drowns is the darkest I ever saw the comic get. Shit was horrifying.

Still the same character, like how Robotnik is still the real name of Eggman in canon.

>dropping like crazy
Leveling out far above the average of other runs at about 11-12k monthly sales after a massively popular start that was the highest selling Sonic comic by an incredibly large margin

It's a fun run user. It has literally everything it needs, simple fun character interaction and it jumps right into the fun stuff, fighting robots and giant mech dragons.

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Only because preboot got offed.

It was basically about to be.

Yeah, that's true. Ian seems to like putting them in hopeless, horrifying situations.

It hasn't leveled out yet.

>It has literally everything it needs
And nothing else, unfortunately. Like a car with no stereo, heat, or backseats. Two slices of bread and a slice of ham in the middle. 1 covfefe, black, no cream or sugar.

Archie comics sold like 30k.

It's been floating at that range since issue 9, user, you're being delusional. It could lose 1000 readers next month and it'd still have sold better than 90% of Archie Sonic
What else would you ever add?
>Like a car with no stereo, heat, or backseats. Two slices of bread and a slice of ham in the middle. 1 covfefe, black, no cream or sugar.
False comparisons do not help.
Highest selling Archie Sonic was the Megaman crossover and that was like 16000

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I am not comparing it to Archie I am comparing it to where it started.

>Highest selling Archie Sonic was the Megaman crossover and that was like 16000
Wait, correcting myself here, it was around 17000 and it was the first issue of the Boom series.

Like most starts/premieres a lot of new people test it out to see if it's going to be something they're interested in. Of course readers dropped after, people gave it chance, and some decided it wasn't for them. The amount of people the series maintains is what's actually telling. And the truth is IDW has (so far) created something appealing enough to keep far more readers coming back

Then why are the sales dropping every issue?

Are you only counting Diamond? Because Archie sold in more places outside of that.

Nope. SEGA has long since completely abolished the name Robotnik from canon. They don't even use the name for Eggman's grandfather anymore. He's only ever called "Professor Gerald" now.

Maybe on rare occasions, the American localizations will try to sneak it in, but only as a joke like when it was brought up in Generations.

>Leveling out far above the average of other runs at about 11-12k monthly sales after a massively popular start that was the highest selling Sonic comic by an incredibly large margin
In terms of Diamond Distributor sales.
Please remember that Archie sold an additional 5-7K issues per month via news stands and subscriptions.

>What else would you ever add?
A world with more going on than Eggman in his basement and a few towns, stuff happening in characters' lives that isn't only about Eggman doing something or potentially doing something.
>False comparisons do not help.
Good thing I didn't make any.

Why can't Sonic and Eggman confront each other directly?

Because we already know how that ends every time.

Add that to the list of "shit nobody cares about". Robotnik Robotnik Robotnik. Robotnik.

Sh-shut up!

As compared to how every other issue ends?
God forbid there's some actual chemistry and inventive scenarios instead of doing the default with some OC.

Gimme-gimme-gimme the scoop, Robotnik!

Too personal. It's bad enough that Ian put Amy and Sonic on a mission together last issue, he's really pushing it.

I don't care, it is still a dynamic great enough that I want to see it again.

Diamond has exclusive publishing rights of Archie Comics in the US

TODAY I'LL

If it keeps going, nothing will have a name anymore. Not Sonic's world, not his friends, not even Sonic himself.

>A world with more going on than Eggman in his basement and a few towns,
Eggman's a good villain, and there's almost 0 need for constant globe trotting

Do we?

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Which Sonic immediately got up from, dusted himself off, and rushed over to curb-stomp Eggman.

Any moment now...

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>Eggman's a good villain
Great, even. But not when he's just plodding about at home all day, everyday.

Read the next page. Sonic gets up and acts like nothing happened.

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>Eggman's a good villain,
No villian is good enough to make fighting them the central plot over and over again unless you don’t care about story in the first place
> and there's almost 0 need for constant globe trotting
Besides you know, some variety so you’re not just reading the same stories over and over again and actually seeing new and different things.

He still got his ass kicked. Just because he always wins in the end doesn't mean it isn't interesting to see how he gets there.

As far as Sonic was concerned, it was only halftime and so Eggman hadn't won yet.

eggman is less fun when sonic isn't able to fight him

Nah man, he gets rekt and needs to get like 16 others to beat eggman for him the next time. Sonic never beats that machine.

Subs don't go through them as Archie handles that distribution themselves, it would be too expensive to use Diamond for single copy shipments. They also have deals with newsstands/grocers/etc in which they ship set amounts of digests/floppies to chains.

Perhaps that’s why it’s calmed sonic the hedgehog and not Eggman the Scientist. Also it’s not that he can’t fight Eggman, he can do other shit too.

Which he accepts, but also uses it later on to torture Eggman with how it was only a fluke.

It is called Sonic because he is the protagonist.

Yes that is what I was implying Captain obvious. Sonic is the protagonist and not Eggman. He doesn’t need to be a part of everything.

Which is such incomprehensible bullshit that his mind snaps from how wrong it is. Like when someone says heroes was a good game.

He is a part of everything though.

And the poInt is that he doesn’t have to be and that overusing him detriments both him and the stories. Do you have short term memory loss or something?

He is still part of the current plot, just sonic isnt allowed to confront him.

But he is still the villain, we are just left waiting for Sonic to confront him already.

He will run it into the ground the moment the arc ends anyway.

No point in us waiting for something so overplayed it is bound to be anti-climatic.

Wait, Are you guys just referring to the IDW comics specifically? Cause in that cause you’re right, it’s still making Eggman the center of everything and just taking what was a relatively straightforward conflict snd stretching it out to make room for interesting subordinate villains that don’t exist.

I was just talking about in general that stories that don’t rely on Eggman trying to take over the world and instead maybe show some adventures that Sonic could get up to while just dicking around would be refreshing.

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I would love it if IDW would introduce all new villains besides Eggman for Sonic to fight like Archie did. Even Metal Sonic was a small change of pace, but still drew attention to the fact that we were fighting one of his lackies instead of Eggman himself.

Now that he has his memories back it is inexcusable that Sonic hasn't confronted Eggman yet, and actively contributes to making the comic less interesting overall.

I don't know about that. This Eggman seems more psychotic than the rest. You never know what he'll pull out.

>When I killed your parents I sounded JUST LIKE THIIIIS

>Just because he always wins in the end doesn't mean it isn't interesting to see how he gets there.
To be fair, typically it isn’t. These aren’t some JoJo-esque 4D chess mindgames, Sonic’s strategy is always just “hit them fast and hard until the explode”. The kind of thing that’s more fun to play in motion than watch in stills.

No way given SEGAs mandates will they allow anything too drastic.

I wouldn't be upset if the comic was not trying to build up the first Sonic VS Eggman confrontation, which there is no reason to do so and just feels like the comic is wasting my time getting there.

>Hey Sonic, remember when I tortured you for months? You weren't the only one
>Say hi to Mom, Sonic

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You're really overplaying Eggman making a robo virus that he'd love to have in past depictions.

>Hey Sonic, remember when I tortured you for months?
youtube.com/watch?v=Hp1HxieTYVY

Using a small egg grape, leave the lifedrain on overnight. (This kills the Enchilada)

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>I don't know about that.
>You never know what he'll pull out.
Dude, it's going to be more SaTAM rehash for the current long story arc, which for that, it won't even be good, since there's no more FFs, no more Knothole Forest, no more Acorn's Kingdom, no more everything related to SaTAM.

Give up. The Sonic comics are now hopeless and dead.

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>Robot with special powers besides being stronker, no clever counter measures, and not even a particularly unique design, beating Sonic purely through plot armor is fine
>But when Sonic does the same, it’s bullshit

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>since there's no more FFs, no more Knothole Forest, no more Acorn's Kingdom,
That doesn’t seem too bad to me.

>No villian is good enough to make fighting them the central plot over and over again unless you don’t care about story in the first place
I dunno, it works just fine for Spider-Man and Doctor Octopus.

And the Doctor and the Master.

And Flash and any Rogue, Batman and Joker, SJWs and "nazis"... the list goes on.

Why are faggots so obsessed with Sonic confronting Eggman? We know how it''s gonna go. Eggman's going to say he's going to beat him this time and Sonic owns his ass and dry, rinse, repeat.

Again, as compared to the exact same thing happening to some other villain?

Because if the comic is going to have Eggman as a villain Sonic should just confront him already?

Because Eggman is more enjoyable when he is actually willing to confront Sonic directly.

All of them switch in and out. And they still aren’t good. Using Capeshit as your example is only really showing your acceptance of the subpar.

>Caring about Sonic comics at all is only really showing your acceptance of the subpar.
ftfy

Not Sonic. Sonic fights Eggman in nearly every game. If the comics had an all new villain I would not be complaining, but teasing an encounter that happens constantly is stupid.

Why do people obsess over going to work all the time even though the work almost always ends the same way? Why do white people eat everyday even though all it does is temporarily fill their stomachs? Why do people alright you probably get the point, humans are creatures of habit and desire an enjoyable routine, that's all.

>Sonic is below the lofty standards of superhero comics.
OH WOE, SAY IT ISN'T FUCKING SO.

it's just dumb to build up to something that in any other context would just be part of the standard formula

>Not Sonic. Sonic fights Eggman in nearly every game.
Not him, but most games usually supplant it by having another villain/faction alongside Eggman, or even overshadowing Eggman (namely, that stretch between SA2 and Colors, though the Advance and Rush games kept him relevant at least).
The problem with IDW, in my eyes at least,is that Eggman doesn't have the presence he had in Archie via Egg Bosses and Super Badniks.
Metal had no subordinates and the Super Badniks we saw weren't memorable (though I think they're still using the bland ones from Forces).
Eggman right now has Metal, Starline, Rough and Tumble and the latter two are pretty much Hooligan stand-ins.
And it's overall not helped by how small and non-detailed the world feels.
>Not Sonic's World
Sonic's World already doesn't have a name.
Notice how neither IDW or post-reboot Archie call the world "Mobius", just "Sonic's World".

Eggman and Sonic still confront each other even when other villains are involved.

Eggman isn't being supplanted, he is the big bad and shouldn't be.

In fairness, I can see why they're building it up (Eggman went missing at the end of Forces, he was presumed to permanently be Mr. Tinker, etc).
Archie kinda did it too with him recovering from his insanity, only there he went full madman by converting his base into a Death Egg.
Here, he's unleashing a virus which, while threatening, doesn't exactly scream "it's on" in the same way especially since we know from Silver that it's going to go horribly wrong.

Yeah, but it felt more hollow because there were other, more important things in the background (especially in 06 where Sonic's story feels so insignificant compared to Shadow and Silver's).
Some of those times, it wasn't even him, just someone pretending to be him.

At the end of the day, Eggman's the main villain, but that doesn't mean he needs to be the only villain. This is especially true if he lacks the lackeies to give that variety.
It's not a case like Bowser who has a large variety of henchman of all different shapes and sizes and can change them on a whim per game. Even then, some people are sick of Bowser being the main villain/final boss all the time too.

There is nothing gained by making the audience wait, all they will do is complain about it being anti-climatic the same way they complained about him being the final boss in Lost World and Forces.

In those cases, the anti-climax was more general bait and switch than just waiting.
>Lost World had Eggman seemingly fall to his death only to suddenly reveal that he was using Sonic to get rid of the Deadly Six. Cue recycled Egg Nega Wisp
>Sonic Forces had him absorb (?) Infinite into his "Death Egg Robot", abruptly ending Infinite's role in the story. Cue recycled Egg Dragoon, Zavok and Egg Nega Wisp.
And those cases probably aren't helped by the fact that Sega can't stop reusing the Egg Nega Wisp.

>wanting something to be good over the typical mediocrity that is abundant is subpar
Such is the delusional mind of a Capefag
Reading comprehension. Also
>Capeshit
>standards
Pick one

>sales = quality
If this is true, then Avatar, Titanic, and Star Wars: The Force Awakens are the three best movies ever made, Michael Jackson, Pink Floyd, and AC/DC are the best musicians of all time, and Tetris, Minecraft, and GTA5 are the best videogames of all time.

I personally have faith Ian is gonna improve the comic into something decent, and it's not like IDW is going to cancel it any time soon. Judging by the diamond numbers, Sonic is their #3 property right now, outselling their Star Wars, Star Trek, MLP, G.I.Joe, Ghostbusters, and some Disney properties. There's no need to use bullshit arguments to defend a bland start.

>I personally have faith Ian is gonna improve the comic into something decent
Nothing suggests to me he will.

>I personally have faith Ian is gonna improve the comic into something decent

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If he can take the absolute shitfest that was Archie Sonic and make it something entertaining, he can do it again with Sega Sonic.

Not with all the mandates, and if he was going to do something better he would have already.

Based?

The problem here is he took only part of the shitfest that was Forces, which itself was lacking in content, and didn't really add anything of worth in place of the things he left out of it. So far it reads more like a fan work than any of his past stuff (though Ian is a better writer than most fans).

I just want them to give Amy toes.

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It is so boring, I would rather read fanfiction.

>Implying
Most Fanfictions always add something different or new to whatever they’re writing about. Granted, that’s not saying most of the ideas they’re trying to add in are GOOD, but no one ever makes a fanfic just regurgitate more of the same. That sort of thing is reserved for people on a paycheck who don’t give a damn.

This

>>sales = quality
Surely you can quote the part of that message where I said that. My point was the entire thread is pretending IDW is some manner of a disaster when really it's just a mildly different take on Sonic than the ones they're fans of, that a lot of other people like.
>Titanic
>Michael Jackson
>Tetris, Minecraft
They're some of the best of their medium, yes. Good things often become popular, it's not always the case, it's not in itself evident of their quality, but certainly being good often attracts attention.

>There's no need to use bullshit arguments to defend a bland start.
The run has had an exceptional start, a bit predictable sure, not inherently a bad thing, but does a good job of reintroducing readers to this post-forces world with cameos from the most prominent side characters of the franchise and gets right into the real draw, the fast-paced and lighthearted action. And over the course of the first arc introduces prominent parts of the setting, new characters (that people have taken too enough that they're getting a spin-off). It's been a charming series so far. And the Battle for Angel Island arc only recently ended

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>Realistic feet.

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Wow you have an overly positive opinion, even people that like IDW that I have seen aren't this positive about it.

>Titanic
>Michael Jackson
>Tetris, Minecraft
>They're some of the best of their medium, yes.
Ok, you just have shit taste then. Not that I can complain, seeing as how I'm reading a Sonic comic.

>mildly different take on Sonic than the ones they're fans of, that a lot of other people like.
It is just an inferior version of Archie.

I want you to explain, seriously, what the fuck you think is even mildly flawed about Tetris

You realize that a lot of people disagree with your opinion right?

I wish I was this easily entertained.
I could just read Garfield for the rest of my life.

>that a lot of other people like.
And the source of that comes from...?

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Which Tetris.
Hatris?
Floatris?
Tetris 2?
Tetris Attack?
My daddy's Tetris?

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I don't understand this take on Sonic despite having no lore, no world building, bad comedy, unimaginative, and drawn out plots.

I don't remember the games having storytelling this slow paced.

Can IDW Sonic be saved?

If the pacing picks up and Ian Flynn tries to add plots with more imagination and creativity then yeah.

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Is this Ian posting?

Given the way talks about IDW, it sure seems like it.

If you have to ask this kind of question in the first place, then you already know the answer.

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Surprised you didn't even have a problem with Tangle given how pointless her introduction was.

>the Battle for Angel Island arc only recently ended
It ended four months ago.
I feel like the fact that you consider that "recently" when that's like a fourth of the comic's length says a lot.

Four month is four issues. Literally only 4 issues, that's less than an hour of reading, probably closer to 30.
As it turns out characters don't exist for a reason, should all the locations be filled with nameless entities? Her introduction made the issue more fun than it would have been otherwise

Why did Tangle even need to be there? What notable locations have even been featured in the comic?

I would have had more fun if Blaze got more screentime. If I wanted to see OCs overshadowing game characters I would read Pre-Reboot.

>As it turns out characters don't exist for a reason, should all the locations be filled with nameless entities? Her introduction made the issue more fun than it would have been otherwise
There was literally no point to Tangle. She adds nothing. She was not "fun". People expected more story and relevance to her appearance. She just seems like an extra character to the already large cast. You can remove her and nothing would really change.

>all the seething archieniggers
Archie was fucking bad

Pre-Reboot was rarely THAT bad.

Four issues is also a third the length of Watchmen.
The comic as a whole is at 300 pages and a cumulative price point of $60. Maybe it should get the lead out already.

>should all the locations be filled with nameless entities?
They pretty much already are.

It's not an excuse for the poor quality of the current comic.

Quads confirm.

Just someone farming (You)s.

Intentionally attempting to incite flame-wars for trolling motives is against the rules, you know.

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The quality fluctuated constantly. It's really hard to mark it.

Where did he say that the pre-reboot was bad?

>As it turns out characters don't exist for a reason
Yeah they do, that's why they have identities. They serve a purpose in the story, however minor.
>should all the locations be filled with nameless entities?
I mean if she doesn't actually have any reason to be around or a distinct personality, yeah, just use that space to have incidental characters interact or do stuff. That way you get a better sense for the world instead of a better sense for this one chick who keeps showing up.
>Her introduction made the issue more fun than it would have been otherwise
Or the issue could have dropped her and written an actual story instead of being a vehicle to introduce her and Blaze while accomplishing nothing else.

End of the post.

Compared to other puzzle games like Magical Drop or Adventures of Lolo, it lacks any sort of depth. There is no real strategy to speak of, and planning ahead beyond 4 rows is completely pointless. Planning that far really doesn't have much point unless you are score-farming anyways. Tetris was popular because it's a very simple and easy to pick up puzzle game, not because it's one of the best puzzle games of all time. I'd say Lode Runner is far more likely to take that spot.

This explains some of the problems.

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I thought Ian cared.

>Why did Tangle even need to be there?
Why do you need to be in your town? You live there.
She's featured again in 9 and for a few issues after. How does another side character existing upset you this much

>Four issues is also a third the length of Watchmen
Watchmen isn't long, how is the metric even mildly relevant?
>300 pages and a cumulative price point of $60. Maybe it should get the lead out already.
Yeah? They had a big villain reveal, and defeating the villain in 12 chapters, about the length of Watchmen, whatever that means.

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Because I read a Sonic comic primarily for Sonic characters?

I think he meant Ian joining IDW, not Ian joining Archie.

I know but I thought he still cared.

Not anymore.

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Good. Sally is shit.

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That makes me happy.

Damn

bump

This is such a willfully stupid thing to attempt to target IDW with. The origin of this meme doesn't even start with their run, and there is literally nothing wrong with attempting to maintain consistent characterization of someone who's not only Sega's fucking mascot, but the main character of the franchise Sega makes 2-3 games of a year. (Also worth checking out youtu.be/jSmsD7yRaPI?t=40m20s }

The fact that characters rarely have interesting expressions is a problem IMO.

Ian cares.
Ian is also in dire need of editorial intervention. This is the guy who pre-emptively apologized for SU #50 because he thought everyone would hate the changes Sega demanded (making Metal Sonic barely talk).

Crying isn't interesting. Replacing fun characters with perpetually depressed waste of space only serves to ruin good fiction.

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I am talking about Issue 15 where every expression is dull surprise.

>Watchmen isn't long, how is the metric even mildly relevant?
My god you're dense.
The point is that you can convey a wealth of information in that space. I made that comparison because Watchmen is dense as fuck with content. I don't expect Sonic to be anywhere near that level, but you're trying to dismiss the fact that you barely even register four issues with "oh that's just a few minutes of reading" when that many pages can have an insane amount of substance. $16 dollars of content, 80 pages, four issues, is nothing to sneeze at. That's a considerable chunk of comic. They sell that shit as trade paperbacks.

>They had a big villain reveal, and defeating the villain in 12 chapters
Do you have any sort of critical eye for the things you read at all? Because taking 12 chapters to set up and then strike down a villain with barely any substance besides is pretty lousy.

The worst part is this guy isn't even exaggerating much. They gave us the new writer's script in the back half of the TSR issue and it's sloppy as fuck.

Because when two people you're fighting turn into robots you're going to be surprised. And there was a lot more in the issue with that
>Because taking 12 chapters to set up and then strike down a villain with barely any substance besides is pretty lousy.
I'm sorry they don't pretend there's moral complexity to killing millions of people in this series user

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Keyword "dull"

I'm not talking about moral complexity. I'm talking about giving the reader something for those, what, $30 they spent or so in between issue #1 and issue #11. Nothing happens. It's the same plot structure regurgitated over and over. If you take a third of a year as being something that "just happened," your book is barely doing anything from month to month, and that's shit.

>If you take a third of a year as being something that "just happened," your book is barely doing anything from month to month, and that's shit.
Was I supposed to give a panel by panel description of the events in the 3 issues since the angel island arc ended? Are you retarded?

You'd be done in about four sentences. That's the point.

This.

Oh you're that faggot.

Everyone that browse this site is, by default, a faggot.

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Yes, but user identified them as that particular faggot.

And particular faggots are still faggots, just like ironic shitposting is still shitposting.

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I'm not sure why you feel the need to point this out. You may as well say water is wet. user just realized who this particular faggot was.

I'm more sad about the loss of Honey.

>he likes Sonic
You realize that a lot of people disagree with your opinion right?

Marine or Cream would have been a better fit to pair with Blaze, Tangle is only liked by waifufags so far.

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Archie Sonic was saved from far worse. The difference here is the guy who saved it IS the problem.

I want Breezie back

Unironically looks closer to the games' style than Satam Sally.

Not an argument.

This. Clove a cute but I could not be bothered to give more than half a fuck about her sob story, out of the whole cast she came across as one of those unfun anime archetypes. Only good part with her was with Thunderbolt.

Worse than that, he was proven right by the Hesse reaction images.

Cause Sonic has to feature in every issue

He's just deflecting because he's been spotted.

Also they have tried that several times over the years and they get cancelled from low sales.

People like sonic. People do not like all the second bananas.

Even if the writing lacks a proper amount of soul, at least the character designs are otherwise. The new IDW characters have a lot of love and care put into their designs. They have so much potential and I hope to see them get put into the proper hands.

I mean just look at Tangle. I want to pet her so fucking bad you guys.

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Tangle has a bad design and is s fucking useless character.

Please, get out, shill.

Tangle has a good design, but her outfit is just a generic athletic getup. Whispee is alright except for the knee and elbow pads.

You’re forgetting the nightly attacks by Dark Gaia monsters.

Tangle has a okay design but compare her to literally any character that came from archie and she pales in comparison

Honestly I never got the point of the Archie Sonic comics once they stopped appealing to kids. The action and adventure elements felt secondary to the soap opera character dynamics that pretty much never had payoff.
If the IDW comics are putting the action and adventure in the foreground I can hardly imagine how that's anything but an improvement.

Sho' nuff. I forgot a lot since it's been a while, I mostly only remember how I felt while reading it as well some characters and key scenarios.

>If the IDW comics are putting the action and adventure in the foreground
Exposition is in the foreground, adventure is implied and action is barely choreographed. IDW Sonic isn't as bad as some say, but even Pontaff games have more going on.

Different people want different things, and SEGA and IDW have their own priorities.

>super serious epic
I wouldn't describe as very dramatic at all. It might become dramatic if they go places with this virus deal, but so far it's just been pretty typical Sonic fanfare.

B-But I like them...

I never actually read the IDW comics desu, but I intend to once I find the time. From the snippets I've seen, though, the writing and dialogue looks just as bland as this thread describes it. I would honestly kill to bring back the tone and quality of the pre-reboot Archie's writing, even if it meant getting the shitty romance arcs as well.

i like archie too, but i still find it absolutely hilarious that the whole series started out as goofy pun-filled shenanigans to antoine ending up in a fucking coma after metal sonic blew up in his face. shit went down in those comics and i absolutely loved it

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in IDW Eggman treats Metal Sonic as his precious metal boi instead of a disposable unit. That's all that matters.

bump

I never really got Ian's decision to make Metal Sonic a mass produced jobber bot when he was clearly his own character.
I support Sega telling him to cut that shit out.

Well why shouldn't Metal be like that? He's just a machine and there's not much that has to be unique about him, at least not so much so that there ought to only be one. Even Sega had Eggman make an army of Shadow Androids, it's basically the same thing.

>sonic man hero
NEVER
EVER

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>Lights!
>Camera!
>AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA NOPE

Why can't the comic be silly like this?

but user, IDW is full of WACKY FACES

Penders was the one who started with the endless disposable Metal Sonics. Ian kept him around long enough to be useful in Archie.

youtube.com/watch?v=jVGvszaIr-w

No it isn't.

BLAM
BLAM
BLAM

>So close to getting an issue with Sonic and Honey interacting again.
It's been 2 years and I'm still pissed.

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