Should the diamonds have been redeemed?

blue and yellow yes, white fuck no

thier life cycle requires conquest- they are much like galactus. this would make pd like silver only without memory loss. surfer-steve could go to planets and seek out uninhabited worlds for gems but he will no dought stay on earth to sing about breakfast or some crap. murderer!

Thank you Steven for helping to redeem three dictators worse than hitler, with a higher bodycount than mao and stalin combined, who have not only shattered countless gems, but wanted to murder all of humanity. But hey, you cried once, so now all is forgiven.

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Why would Hitler need to apologize?

Don't forget about the forced fusion (rape) experiments, especially the giant one formed out of millions of gems in the middle of the earth that they made to cruelly torture those who fought for their freedom in the war and blow up the Earth out of needless pettiness!

Fuck. I lost.

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Because people actually had expectations for it.
Su was hyped by fans and the show itself had just enough good episodes for people to actually think it was a good motherfucking show. And it failed to deliver on that hype time and time again

If they were going to properly redeem white, it should have been something that was stretched out to at least half a season. Not a single half hour special, where she was on screen for maybe five minutes max.

How hard would have it been to actually explore her character or have Steven actually refute her logic?

>"Steven! He apologized for not killing all the Jewish people!"

The Diamonds have a lot of owning up/repenting to do. Their reign of terror across space (as Steven puts it in "Familiar") has radically transformed and essentially destroyed many planets and probably genocided intelligent life (unless their hostility toward Earth was special because of the Pink Diamond thing). Imagine their reputation among other planets with intelligent life and technology beyond Earth's. Displaced people who managed to escape their planet before it was colonized and settle elsewhere. Other conquering species/races. Allied federations looking to punish the Diamonds, who either aren't buying their new outlook or don't care, because they've done too much damage.

I mean, just look at the Rose Quartzes. I mean the real ones. A whole type of gem bubbled for the crimes of one. As it turns out, not only were they unfairly blamed, but the crime was actually never committed to begin with! You think that, unbubbled, they're going to be cheery about being punished for thousands of years for something that never happened? I, for one, would be livid.

Maybe the Diamonds enlist Steven as an envoy to smooth things over between Gemkind and the other intelligent life. It would be great if Greg joined him and they tried to use music as diplomacy (imagine also Sadie Killer and The Suspects' universal tour), to introduce a different culture to other planets, and maybe picking up some new music from them on the way. Greg finally gets to be the star he always wanted, helping the galaxy heal (or trying, anyway, because I can see it going south eventually with people who don't think a song is enough to compensate for ages of conquest). It could be interesting to see Steven in the position of having to defend the indefensible against those looking for justice or vengeance, not knowing how to do it, because the enemy has a point.

Trying to defend mass murderers against their victims would make Steven a huge piece of shit and be a stupid plot point

This is tantamount to white genocide

>mindless
found the virgin

Sure it was stupid, but how else was it going to end?
Did you really think that Steven would ever have it in him to actually shatter them for their crimes or something?

Well, no other option since they can't be destroyed.

> diamonds living as functional dieties for their species
> if they cease to exist their species fails to function and will go extinct
> genocide for revenge
how does one "redeem" a quartet of mad goddesses each embodying a physical and emotional ideal?
kill them by replacing them with something like with steven

get to work, Greg

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Holy fuck
I open that image in public

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Blue and Yellow maybe since they could use the following orders excuse albeit to a lesser extent than the lower gems.
White was basically an evil goddess that wiped out entire planets to create an army of servants.
They glossed over that shit for all of the Diamonds even PD who was just as bad as the rest in a different way.
One potentially huge problem is that they now have an entire extremely advanced alien civilization on their side led by three ultra powerful goddesses and a show philosophy that doesn't allow violence. What in the fuck is the next threat going to be? They are the kind of villain a reasonable writer only redeems if they plan to kill them off.

On a somewhat related note who is ready for the disastrous Jasper redemption next season?

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No pink is unredeemable.

>Jasper getting a redemption arc
In your fucking dreams, her small cameo in the fountain is all were gettin.

It honestly didn’t really feel as emotionally cathartic as they probably thought it would. I mean, you have all these atrocities committed by the ruling body of an oppressive, expansionist Empire, and then you have the main character who starts the series off talking about how the Crystal Gems always fight evil and protect the world now saying that “They’re not our enemies, they’re family!” About the people that wanted the Earth destroyed to make way for a colony, who stood against everything the Crystal Gems fought and died for, like freedom for gems and protection of organic life. Some people will say that that’s emotional growth and maturation, but it’s not, it’s actually a regression, and it puts forward a naive view of the world that you can reason with opressors, that you can and should try to maintain a relationship with your former abusers, and that even the most heinous of war crimes should just be forgiven in the name of family.

Like how they started, except for the 'mindless' part because what fun is that?

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They're literal dictators that enforce a caste system on a group if virtually immortal space rocks some of which are forced to forever function as actual architecture while treating all other forms of life as insects. Do you think they can be redeemed at this stage?

The ones forced to function as architecture didn't seem particularly unhappy. Don't forget they can't get tired or hungry. Also, we don't know they have to do that all the time; maybe it's a shift thing.

And enforce a caste system: well, they naturally are different. Much more so than humans.

And treat other life forms as insects: compared to them, we are objectively inferior. And look at what we do to other life forms which are much more similar to us than we are to Gems! Look at what we do to even each other.

If the diamonds are irredeemable, so are very many human beings.

Steven Universe fails so hard in what Mob Psycho 100 succeeds in so well, redeeming the villains in a believable, not with the power of love and friendship, but by calling out their bullshit and making them naturally realize they're absolutely retarded

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I think this is one of the rare times where Godwin's law isn't being used as hyperbole.
Genuinely, trying to genocide the Jews is far less severe than destroying entire fucking planets - especially garden worlds like Earth.

This is to say nothing of the atrocities they perpetrated on their own people, have they even given an excuse for the shard/cluster experiments?

>have they even given an excuse for the shard/cluster experiments?

And whose idea were those in the first place? Was that all Yellow?

They pretty easily forgave white for Mind controlling and enslaving the other diamonds and cgs with no intention of releasing them

Sure. It's fantasy, it doesn't need to be realistic. I would've liked a few more episodes before White was "redeemed", but it is what it is.

Her "I am supposed to be" comments seem to suggest she was made by someone else, so it becomes questionable how free her own will is.

Imagine realizing something like "I can be wrong" after thousands of years of total domination.

You couldn't shatter them anyway if the theories about them literally being the gods of their species is anything to go by. That "sweat" that Yellow and Blue gave off in Familiar is basically what goes into the injectors and helps make new gems. It's the method of sucking planets dry that needed to change and it was never stated whether the planets they used contained sentient life anyway. Only ones we've seen were basically animals.

Reigen is HOT

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calm down incel

Bones were so horny for him this season huh. I really hope we get a third season with non-manga content at some point.

ATTENTION: THIS IS NOW A MOB PSYCHO 100 THREAD, NOW POST CUTE FANART!

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No thank you

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Why would there need to be non-manga content? There's enough left to do a season

That is literally how the boss of Claw was redeemed though. Mob empathized with him and took all the energy from him and then he let himself be taken away. This was after a battle mind you but even then he wasn't hated by his wife even after all that so it lessens the blow a little.

Doesn't mean it wasn't amazingly well done, but it's a bit unfair to say Mob and SU don't have redemption qualities in common.

No, imperialists dogs should be hanged as for will of the proletariat,tovarisch.

Is there? I was told there wasn't enough to do another full season. If that's the case then yeah that's great.

When did the Diamonds get arrested and do any time for their crimes?

Psycho Helmet/Broccoli arc, aliens arc, the confession arc. They could even throw in some stuff from the Reigen manga if they needed to

They did community service by helping the STD ridden community.

You'd need a pretty big prison cell for that. The point was that Mob and Steven both defeat their enemy through compassion and understanding even after a battle. Mob does it better for sure, but it's still not dissimilar from SU in method and tone.

I would say Mob just showed Toichiro the error of his ways, he didn't necessarily befriend him (Mob even admits he dislikes him). Toichiro also gets punished for his action unlike in SU, where any character that gets on Steven's good side gets off completely scot-free

Piss off.

>The point was that Mob and Steven both defeat their enemy through compassion and understanding even after a battle
Sure, if you're going to dumb it down that far.
But Toichiro still handed himself in to the authorities. He didn't just go back to his old job after saying sorry and helping the good guys out a bit.

I wouldn't nessersarily everyone gets off scot-free. Peridot had to work to fix the cluster problem, Lapis suffered terrible PTSD and basically became her own worst enemy, the Diamonds entire regime ended and they fixed the corruption problem they caused. There are consequences for a character being "redeemed", it's what comes AFTER during random downtime that SU struggles to deal with and pace correctly IMO.

I think the broccoli arc can make up half of the season, considering the amount of filler subplots in it
>Growing influence of the cult
>That weird warrior guy
>Ritsu dressing up as a maid for a school project
>Teru vs Lord Psycho Helmet
>Mob "getting carried away 100%" (I can't wait to see that one)
>Everyone getting brainwashed (except Mob)
>Mob vs Dimple
>Dimple's death

Easily 8 episodes

Exactly. And Confession is easily two, maybe three episodes as well

I really wish I hadn't read that spoiler.

>Ronaldo is a character that shows homicidal tendencies and is still friends with Steven without much consequence
>The Diamonds probably murdered hundreds of planets and species through their empire and none of this is ever addressed

> Nobody likes Ronaldo
> The concept of Diamonds hollowing out planets is literally a major plot point in the show

>They are the kind of villain a reasonable writer only redeems if they plan to kill them off.
i'll say it again, centipeetle needs to pull a kylo ren and become the new dictator, istead of the inevitable boring healing arc she's going to get

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Don't count on it. I don't mind a lot of the writing shortcuts SU takes but they're very clearly gonna skip over Centi's hatred of the CG's since it's not relevant to the plot. If anyone gets focus it'll be Jasper since Kim Brooks has been in the recording booth since the Dove commercials.

>healing arc
She already been healed and is back with her crew. Her arc is over.

same

Don't worry because you'll end up more interested in the season and there will be some tension as to how and when the story will get to that point

Yeah I suppose you're right. This isn't the first time I've been accidentally spoiled on something and still enjoyed the journey there.

>If anyone gets focus it'll be Jasper
i have always admired jasperfags dedication. it's been like 4 years and still, hope springs eternal for them. it's kind of humbling.

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Not a Jasperfag, I just follow the behind the scenes stuff obsessively.

fair enough. i can imagine jasper probably will get a fair amount of airplay in the new seasons, yes.

god. i refuse to believe anyone looked at the entire outline for the series and went 'oh yeah, that's satisfying. no wasted characters here'

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>Split their entire home world in half for the sake of expansion and did the same to what can only can be assumed countless other worlds
>Probably still doing it
They can drink my pee

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Wow thanks hilary, I want to see nephrite get with topaz now. They'd be fucking cute.

nephrite is suprisingly shippable

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Jasper has already suffered more than most of the cast and just wanted to give Rose an ass kicking for ruining her life, which was initially pretty justified just from her perspective of Rose forcing her to be born into war, killing her diamond, taking her home and purpose away from her, but became moreso after the plot twist which made it apparent that Rose kind of deserves it for betraying her loyal followers and getting countless gems killed by starting a war against herself and lying to everyone like a dumbass.

Unlike the other diamonds Jasper is actually one of the victims to Rose's actions and the war (not one of the dictators mistreating Pink into acting how she did and enslaving the rest of gemkind), she was antagonistic because she was misguided and acting off of lies since the day she emerged, and has faced terrible consequences for the things she did even though none of it exceeded the questionable actions of other easily forgiven characters like Peridot or was even comparable to the diamond's crimes. She has been the only antagonist not to immediately give in to Steven's friendship speal because she was allowed to be more complicated in her beliefs and motivations and didn't have the Steven is Pink Diamond copout used on her to make it easy.

Whatever happens with her next is set up to be infinitely better than the rushed handwaving bullshit we got with the diamonds (not saying they can't fuck it up like everything else after ASPR).

It's been two years since Jasper's last round of focus, and her "redemption" has always been an eventuality because 1) the creator of the show confirmed her return and heavily hinted at redemption way back with the make a wish kid 2) the creator and crew have always either openly fagged over her or treated her as a major character outside of the show (in art, podcasts, and side material like the books and dove shorts) 3) if she never got any time to heal she'd be the single unexplained exception to the show's thing with giving everybody second chances and helping them resolve their traumatic pasts and emotional issues, which she has a lot of. It only took this long because of all the fucking hiatuses, she was really only gone for a season and her corruption just served as a way to temporarily shelve her the same as the barn did for Lapis and Peridot.

I can't believe anyone looked at Change Your Mind and said "these are satisfying resolutions to all the questions, plot threads, and character arcs we left dangling or have been building up at a snail's pace for the last 5 seasons"

What the hell was the point of anything that happened in this show? It hooked you at the start but then ended up being a whole lot of nothing that ended on an anticlimax. I'm angry at myself for getting invested in something again only for it to be a horrible disappointmemt, just like everything else in my life.

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>the single unexplained exception to the show's thing with giving everybody second chances and helping them resolve their traumatic pasts and emotional issues
idk about that. steven left a lot of people out to dry.

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It was reviewed well by most media outlets (yes they mentioned the rushed pacing) and most fans seemed to love it. I know you'll brush that off with "what about MY OPINION" but in the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter.

Does that erase its flaws? No. Doesn't stop it from being one of the best episodes in the show despite that. No amount of Yea Forums revisionism will change that.

The show is about Steven's coming of age story and the subtext is about learning to deal with emotions and manage them correctly. It's not Voltron or any other epic sci-fi story and never was.

Let's be fair: Zircon fucked over herself, it's not Steven's fault she got poofed.

>She has been the only antagonist not to immediately give in to Steven's friendship speal
never forget based Aquamarine

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Quit making excuses for the sloppy, shitty writing.

And White Diamond. I know it was rushed but people are making it out like Steven walked in there and instantly won. He had his gem ripped out and nearly died because of it and the only reason they got out of there alive is because White felt embarrassment and changed her mind.

Stop being a brainless moron who analyses media on a surface level.

desu i would agree with the other guy. it makes sense for white's character sure, but she wasn't built up at all, so her turn didn't feel inevitable like even blue or yellow's changes did

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Not including one off FOTM characters

Also
>zircon
>traumatic past and emotional issues
Where did you get that from, she doesn't have anything fleshed out beyond her job and basic personality

I think people only pretend CYM good because of all the superficial fan service eg: everybody getting new outfits, the Steven fusions getting rushed out back to back (even though a lot of it *cough* sunstone *cough* was underwhelming), or maybe because they were sick of waiting through hiatuses and were just happy for any kind of finale that could work as the show's ending.

I only consider an episode good because of fan service, an episode is good when it's well paced, well written, and has something worthwhile explored or developed in it. A Single Pale Rose was the last good episode of the season. Change Your Mind shat on it and the rest of the good parts of the show's story leading up to it.

>****I DON"T consider an episode good because of fan service
Bitch

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agreed on the fanservice. both SU's best aspects and worst aspects came from how self-indulgent it was

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>She will probably be cool with Steven if we ever see her again
Fuck this show.
A Single Pale Rose was the turning point for everything going full retard. PDs plan was nonsense and it completely brushed over all of the manipulation and lies to rush through the rest of the plot as quickly and conveniently as possible.

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Based.
Cringe.

>it completely brushed over all of the manipulation and lies to rush through the rest of the plot as quickly and conveniently as possible
A Single Pale Rose didn't do that, all the crappy episodes following it did

Something should have come and corrupted all three of them instead, setting up a brand new grand enemy that will be present for another 5 seasons (but then be 100% dealt with and resolved in a single 15 or 30 minute episode).

>PDs plan was nonsense
It was pretty straightforward; after having lived with her underlings, she decided to abandon her station to fight for them since she knew she had no real power over the other Diamonds' actions.
> brushed over all of the manipulation and lies to rush through the rest of the plot as quickly and conveniently as possible.
The characters all cried about all of that for so many episodes, the fuck you on about?

I can't even describe the sadness I get from this post

this

>The characters all cried about all of that for so many episodes, the fuck you on about?
Sapphire was sad for one. Bismuth didn't care, Ruby didn't care, Greg didn't care, Pearl already knew, Peridot didn't care, Amethyst shrugged it off in one episode. The only people that cared where the Diamonds just because it made redeeming them convenient and Steven.

i think the main thing was sapphire going 'abloobloo rose fucked us all' but pearl swoops in and there's a bunch of stuff about rose was the real victim and this stupidass plan was good.

Like I always say, they literally had a whole song dedicated to ignoring the whole Pink Diamond twist and sweeping Rose's shit under the rug.
>Let's only think about love, and not the horrible manipulations Rose committed that fucked us over for 5,000 years.
What a healthy lesson for the kids "Don't think too hard about bad things other people do, just keep moving forward and pretend they didn't happen."

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kek

>The show is about Steven's coming of age story and the subtext is about learning to deal with emotions and manage them correctly. It's not Voltron or any other epic sci-fi story and never was.
Gee then maybe they shouldn't have included a huge plot about galactic conquerors and their ancient race

Didn't they say WWII never happened in SU Earth history? So technically he literally did nothing wrong in the SU world.

they're still dictators/emperors harvesting planets to expand the gem race. They're "redeemed" in the sense that they're considerably less hostile towards the planet Earth and Steven and co., and more willing to communicate with Steven and accept that Pink Diamond is unavailable atm, and potentially lost to the consciousness of her fat fleshy offspring. Redemption is a meaningless buzzword playing down more interesting discussion.

White goes from homicidal maniac who brainwashes everyone and attempts to murder steven to a good guy in like 10 seconds flat. Maybe you cut the Lars being a pink space pirate stuff and focus on building up Whites character and set the seeds for her downfall/redemption?

Considering the Space Pirate Captain thing ended up going nowhere that probably wouldn't have been a bad idea, though cutting out the Connie drama episodes or the shit with Sadie joining a band would be better

wwii never happened because the human population was fucking decimated from the start of HW colonization and the subsequent war and corruption blast. Human civilization is advanced enough in certain aspects to be comparable to IRL civilization for the purposes of the show, but simple enough to not have any significant retaliatory/monitoring forces against gem invaders.

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I didn't see White as homicidal desu. Her primary goal was to make Pink show herself, and she was very draconian in her methods. She genuinely believed she was helping other gems by brainwashing them, since that way they wouldn't have their "flaws" burdening them.
What she got was a reality check that PD was gone and she was wrong, thus shattering her self-image of perfection, making her uncertain about herself and more willing cooperate.

Id say genociding an entire planet without a second thought and discarding steven is pretty homicidal.

>HW commits atrocities, led by the Diamonds
yeah, okay, I don't disagree with that. Though I think it's worthwhile to talk about the many many genocidal efforts throughout human history. It's a shame that the Nazi party is the most memorable example of genocide due to how hard it's stuffed into most every child's head in school. The Diamonds have a somewhat effective hierarchical system, and the dissidents and off-colored are weeded out and discarded. I do that shit plenty of times in games, like when I release Pokemon when I'm breeding.

When did that happen, the genocide I mean?
I wouldn't consider the later as homicidal, because at the time she didn't even consider Steven as Steven and though it was just Pink playing pretend. And like I said, White's methods are very draconic, and that was the way she tried to make Pink show up as herself.

When they decided to put a swift end to Roses Rebellion by just launching a combined beam attack at earth shattering basically all of Roses allies.

>wwii never happened because the human population was fucking decimated from the start of HW colonization and the subsequent war and corruption blast.
>he actually thinks a single prehistoric decimation would have any affect on the human population tens of thousands of years later
>as if there weren't already multiple prehistoric decimations in real life that humanity bounced back from

That's not how human population works. Holy fuck. Read a book kid.

I guess that's genocide like the hiroshima/nagasaki bombings were genocide. which they are, yeah.

Why not? the villain was Rose's stupidity

>Rose acting as a child
>Steven: I'm a child, what's your excuse?

*acting like a child

List some examples to compare. SU's world is clearly not comparable to our world in certain macro aspects. Why autists keep bringing up world wars is beyond me.

But they didn't shatter?
That beam attack did intend to shatter, based on Yellow and Blue's account, but then again, they believed Pink was shattered.
But White never seemed to be surprised that Pink was still alive, as if she knew that she was still on Earth and she just played along with her until she calms down. White Diamond had the most influence in the beam, judging by the size of the aura, more likely be the case that White saved the gems on Earth from being shattered by simply corrupting them, because all it was was Pink's game.

Its hard to compare the diamonds to real world events since the entire show depicts them as their rule as bad. Every gem we meet that isn't completely loyal to them seems to be unhappy. The diamonds were always presented as evil dictators and seeing a flashback where they wipe out all the allies of 3/4 of our main characters and nearly kill those 3 main characters in the process further solidifies them as purely evil. Like we got some glimpses that yellow and blue were still in mourning over pink but they were still committing atrocities just like we can assume they were prior to her "death"
Then we get White whose only presented to us as the big big bad who even the other diamonds fear and were told is basically the architect of everything bad thats happened in the series. Then steven calls her a child, she blushes and its all better.

Are the Diamond's role in the HW empire more like Civilization / 4x games or Tycoon / Sims / business simulation games? I haven't played enough of either genre to really get a sense of how these games play out. I think the goal of both is to prolong their company/nation for as long as possible?

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I still believe White is going back to Homeworld and continue the course as she has been. But now she's going to tell Yellow and Blue that since Pink isn't really "dead" they have no excuse not to be on top of their game.

>I invested 5 years for that shitty ending
I want my time back

Yes, but it should've been earned, the way it happened in the show was too abrupt. Yellow and Blue should've been defeated and humiliated before being redeemed, maybe in an arc where Steven, the gems and Lars help a rebellion in one of the colony planets or something like that. This sort of arc could've built up homeworld better too. After that Steven would find out about Pink Diamond and make peace with Yellow and Blue.

how about the fucking plague where most of europe died you dumb fuck.

And what makes you think half of europe dying in the span of 4 years didn't have a significant effect on Europe's development to present day? Gems colonized SU Earth several thousand years ago and left in its wake hundreds if not thousands of hostile structures and monsters still terrorizing the human population to current day. Religion would have been drastically different, and maybe there'd still be human-human wars, but there shouldn't be expected to be a 1:1 equivalent of wwii.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toba_catastrophe_theory

born to rule
homeworld is a fuck
kill em all 1989
i am universe
410,757,864,530 dead gems

Plague from the Columbian exchange was the closest thing to an apocalypse scenario in history. About 95% of the inhabitants of the Americas died from European diseases, with entire regions being wiped out completely. The current population of the Americas is several times larger than what it was in 1400. Human reproductive capacity far exceeds historical population growth, and is mostly limited by food and mortality. A sudden population crash is usually followed by a population boom as people exploit the resources that are still available. You know the Noah's Ark story, where one guy's family repopulated the entire world a few thousand years ago, The genetics don't work, but the reproductive rate does, even for having cities and civilizations just a few hundred years later.

Yes, but not in the way it was done. I think the prospect of reforming what are essentially spiteful gods is an interesting one. They have no reason to listen to underlings but they also have no reason not to.

White Diamond's reform tells us that deep down she doesn't really want to actively oppress everyone, she just wants everything to be perfect because it reflects on her. The problem is we don't know why she's like this or how she let everything fly out of control in the first place. It's almost as if she's AI who doesn't know better and attributes (projects) her own insecurities and shortcomings to everyone else.

Seeing as how they have no one who rivals them in power, it was always in the Crystal Gems' best interests to convince them that there's more to life than monotonous progress. Fighting them is out of the question, as we see in Reunited.

>And what makes you think half of europe dying in the span of 4 years didn't have a significant effect on Europe's development to present day?
it improve europe by killing the poor people and the population easily recoverd from it.

you asked for examples of the human population bouncing back from an event which caused mass death. quit moving your fucking goal post.

They don't really need an excuse. They very clearly view non-Diamond gems as beneath them.

We use rats (and other animals) for all kinds of fucked up research because there aren't many good ethical alternatives. The Diamonds are probably in the same boat, except instead of resorting to animals out of necessity, they resort to lesser gems for the sake of progress. Likely ones that were shattered for some "crime."

So as far as they know, the gems that were shattered are long gone and the experiments are salvaging wasted resources for a brighter future.

The real problem was the conditioning from presumably White that stepping out of line for any reason was grounds for shattering. Shattering for violence I can see, because people like the death penalty in real life. But shattering for cross-fusion is not at all pragmatic - especially considering they were not willing to shatter Pink for fusing for a human, in public no less.

>left in its wake hundreds if not thousands of hostile structures and monsters still terrorizing the human population to current day.

This is the only relevant part that would actually affect modern human culture or population. A prehistoric massacre from an alien war would have ZERO effect on current population, assuming a viable breeding population survived. It doesn't take long to repopulate. The worst consequence would be a genetic bottleneck, and there already is one from around that time period.

I guess that works, like modern healthcare systems. Fuck the bottom echelons.

Fine. I still think human history is altered because of surviving alien landmarks that seem devoid of human interference.