Storytime

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Dunno why this gives me the same vibe as reading Endtown.

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So this is a guy who saw a girl he had a crush on be fucked by an army guy with a tricked out truck right?
There is no other explanation.

Military men bad!
hillary good!

>Makes a big deal about removing colors from a flag as some kind of Fascist symbol
>Immediately before and after shows adding more colors to the Punisher logo as some sinister plot

OK?

Wait what the fuck
You can obscure your license plate in the US? It's illegal here in Europe. It's also illegal to obscure your brake lights and blinkers.

It's probably illegal, but if it's a white guy in a lifted truck doing it, no one's going to stop him.

black bad!

Do you really have retards doing this Punisher thing in the US? You are in a really bad shape if that is widespread.

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It’s a common thing to see on bumper stickers, but I’ve never seen it over a license plate.

>when u go 14/88, and the mudslimes grab their AK too late
*dabs on terrorists*

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I've hardly seen any Punisher shirts, stickers, or the like and I'm in hickville.

This sounds like a good way to have an accident while driving during the night.

I have no idea what this guy is talking about here. To any-non Americans: this is not real, or if it is it is not at all widespread.

>I saw this truck once on a highway and it scared me so bad I had to write a fucking essay about how much it scared me

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I'm from Honduras, I agree outside USA you don't see exactly that, but the spirit of the outlaw lives in other ways, here most rich guys or gangs on rural areas follow that American cowboy/bandit aesthetic even though it never existed in our country.

Nah, I see trucks like that pretty commonly in my area (Virginia, close to the border of West Virginia), just not to that kind of extreme.

>I have no idea what this guy is talking about here. To any-non Americans: this is not real, or if it is it is not at all widespread.

i feel dumber having read all those panels

It's very illegal in America. Some models even have lights to illuminate the rear plate. In fact, most of what he pointed out on that page is extensively regulated by the states, and what he's decrying as having racist implications is pretty common among black people who customize cars.

It's popular among vets and tryhards, but even then it peaked almost a decade ago.

Bullshit, I used to work in Western Virginia, and never saw a single one during my ridiculously long commute.
That being said, yes, if I did actually see a completely blacked out truck with a hidden license plate, I would find that at least as shady as a negro wearing a hoddie and face mask.

>sovereign citizen
I work in the public health field and these are by far the most dangerous people to be around. We've had to have police involvement on several occasions because of these loons.

>Extensively regulated
Sort of. The only time your car is officially inspected for those things is when you bring it into service in a given state. Some places have registration renewal safety inspections but they're generally seen as onerous. The only other time you'll have an issue is if a cop decides to pull you over for it, but they can just say, "I didn't notice it," if they don't want to. Cops have a lot of leeway based almost entirely on their stated, subjective perception, and this is enshrined in case law where you can't second guess what cop says he saw or felt, even with evidence.

You sound like a cuck.
As a country that literally had to rebel against its oppressive dictators, whatever standard military issue equipment that military uses should similarly be available to citizens.

>this is not real, or if it is it is not at all widespread.
You seem unsure. No one should take you as an authority on the matter.

This isn't necessarily because police are racist. There's an infamous video of a Vietnam vet unloading on an officer for stopping him.

That has nothing to do with the sovereign citizen meme.

>That has nothing to do with the sovereign citizen meme.
That name is a little cringe, yes, but the idea behind it is common sense.

You live in a society user

I'm not American but this seems like biased, prejudiced leftist bitch-whining to me.

Indeed.
A clown world where the only person who is responsible for my safety is myself.

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Obscuring your taillights and blinkers will get you pulled over immediately, having window tint too dark or violating noise regulations won't matter unless you've pissed the cops off enough, "militarized grill height" is just normal grill height with a big block engine, and rolling coal while on the roadway will get you arrested.

>but the idea behind it is common sense.
Never signing your name on your medical records and financial agreements because of reasons because doing so would mean the government owns them is common sense? Or how about the ones that show up and refuse to sign anything unless we allow them to make a thumb print next to it in their own blood?

Not American you say?

Anyone start to wonder if by articulating fears like this people are actually making these things more likely to happen? I mean I'm not a hugely political person (and am fairly cynical about who's in power since whoever it is is always out for themselves anyway) but I can see that while the intention was obviously for liberals to nod in agreement, I think I know /pol/ well enough that this would seem to indicate to them that they're winning and seem quite exciting.

Yes.
Next you're going to tell me "hahaha why WOULDN'T you trust Facebook Messenger to protect your information from third parties?!"

I don’t want to shit on this too much given the direction of the thread and even if I’m not a fan I appreciate anyone for storytiming.

I just don’t understand the appeal of Nate Powell, weird comparison and it might not be totally fair but he just seems like a less talented Jeff Lemire. Nate just always seems to be a bit long in the tooth for dialogue, his art is quite expressive enough, and his stories never actually touch me in any kind of emotional way.

I’ve read this now, swallow me whole, and any empire. I just don’t get him or his popularity? I guess he does some conscious stuff and people eat it up.

MUH FREEDOM MUH MERICA
DON'T TREAD ON ME
They unironically think like that.

Not him but you can't be sure that no one has ever done it somewhere at sometime but it sure as hell isn't normal nor condoned

This comic reads like a more rambling and contrived Zen Pencils

We don't allow them to do those things user, you can't have bloody documents that's a clear OSHA violation. These people are insane and should be shot on sight by law enforcement, one of them tried to physically fight a 14 year old once and then complained about satanic music we were playing that was actually Rod Stewart.

The thing these faggots are ignoring is that it's thing abroad; not a thing at home in America.
I've lived in many different places, and saw people wearing Punisher shirts maybe 5 times, and none of them fit the "indiscernible CIA agent" description being implied, and never on their completely blacked out trucks.
Abroad, yes, I am more likely to believe that both official military personnel, and private Blackwater-esque contractor militaries enjoy the Punisher aesthetic.

We all have to live through the traumas of whatever time and place we are born into.
I can appreciate this comic for being willing to analyze the subtle aspects of culture and draw conclusions.
But I also am seeing more and more a limit to arguing from a point of view, proposing facts only causes people to throw up walls and reject. You could identify any number of discrete facts, but the listener's instinct will be to come up with anything no matter how fallacious to dismiss it. You have to convince people with pathos, with feelings. It gets around all their defense mechanisms. That way it sinks in and they convinces themselves for you.

>rolling coal
>Practitioners cite "American freedom" and a stand against "rampant environmentalism" as reasons for coal rolling.
>a stand against "rampant environmentalism"

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A lazy, one-sided, black and white, highly politicized interpretation. Largely a waste of time to read. Conservatives will rage; liberals will jizz; anyone with a brain will be bored to tears.

>rolling coal
There's something very uniquely American about that. Not just dismissing the idea of human influence on the environment, not just not caring about your impact on the environment, but actively choosing to pollute the environment more than you need to just to piss off people you don't like.

The /pol/ kids are what you would call "memers", they revel in chaos as a pass-time. Ironically they are like the Taliban. They will get indoctrinated into whatever ideology shows up that caters to their urges, they are only as dangerous insofar as they can be convinced to commit terrorism.
I tend to view things like this as macroeconomics, the outcome of many individual actions is due to forces beyond anyone's control. The internet allows for everyone to be influenced by whatever they allow into their minds.

>Obscuring your taillights and blinkers will get you pulled over immediately,
You say this and yet I see it regularly.

Yeah, but that's not really what I mean. There's something very defeatist and doom-laden about the current liberal attitude. I mean reading this strip the conclusion you come away with is that fascism is just around the corner, and yeah a few people might read it and think "I need to do something to stop this" but I think most apathetic people would just read it and mentally prepare and resign themselves to the fact fascism is probably the future. And ironically a liberal has planted that idea in their heads.

>Obscuring your taillights and blinkers will get you pulled over immediately
That would be a problem in places where the police aren't actively involved in the subcultures that participate in these things.

I'm torn between speak-into-being and, "The only reason why we avoided nuclear Armageddon during the Cold War is that we detailed possible scenarios in fiction, allowing us to avoid them."

But in this case the author really is just explaining something that already exists.

He sounds like one of those self loathing guys who has no actual experience being masculine so everything seems like toxic masculinity to him.

>a few people might read it and think "I need to do something to stop this"
aka write some angry Twitter posts about evil white men

>but it sure as hell isn't normal nor condoned
Depends where you live.

>Anyone start to wonder if by articulating fears like this people are actually making these things more likely to happen?
I don't think it makes it more or less likely to happen, you just become cognizant of it. If a bunch of Punisher-larpers turn coat and form a fascist terrorist organization you'd think back to this comic and think "ah shit, it's like that one comic buddy made".

It's like how the internet becoming more and more circlejerk-y made people remember Metal Gear Solid 2's ending. Modern events echo the Patriots rant, but the rant is hardly responsible for empowering the systems that got us where we are today. The state we're in now just recontextualized it, and having seen the prediction earlier, it can feel less like a prediction and more like a prophecy.

That's not to say fringe elements can't feel emboldened by shit. There's been enough documentation of white supremacists getting pumped up by the Trump election to prove otherwise. But I don't think it's fair to say articulating fears is directly responsible for making things happen.

I lost interest after the first couple of pages when I realized this is liberal biased garbage.

You could expect that every artistic work needs to be life-affirming and advocating for direct action to a higher cause, but sometimes art is about expressing anxieties. Like in this case the writer is documenting what he is seeing. In ideological warfare, there is no value or reason to ever compromise or water-down your agenda. So in a personal work that contains anxiety, we sniff it out as "weakness" or a flaw. In our current age we have become fully ideological in our hearts, we come into information ready for war. You see it here in this thread. Even with just identifying the issues, you still get commentators here instantly dredging up dismissals. Now imagine the outrage if he had ended his comic with a outright call to resist fascism, this thread would be overflowing in wojaks and pepes.

Yeah, it's unfortunate that it devolves into liberal talking points because he starts out with a really interesting thesis.
I'm fairly conservative but I am very much against the 'forever wars'.

Not to mention how much people like to poke fun at 'sovereign citizens'. No one takes their ridiculous claims seriously, and nobody views them as exemplars of some American ideal

Ok City boy, live out in the sticks and every rich farmer's kid has a truck just like that.

You'd be right m80.

They are bad.
Though, some of the things said in this comic feel contrived.
And instead of dealing with more significant matters, like the existence of military, how it dehumanizes people, removes their identity, and takes control, it just props up and constructs this whole thing about black color being evil.
But even if you go ahead and paint every effort taken by the military, for example, reaching out to people through entertainment, as being evil in nature and intent, them trying to normalize war and indoctrinate people, you'd still miss the point and only further the detachment of those people.

No one wants your AIDS blood on their contracts user

>Yeah, but that's not really what I mean. There's something very defeatist and doom-laden about the current liberal attitude. I mean reading this strip the conclusion you come away with is that fascism is just around the corner
It's already here. White supremacist and right wing terrorism makes up the vast majority of terrorist activity in the United States. Even authorities in the Trump administration agree they are a present and volatile danger.

He's not identifying issues, he's stating an opinion.

>White supremacist and right wing terrorism makes up the vast majority of terrorist activity in the United States.
That's like saying Japanese terrorists make up the majority of terrorist attacks in Japan.
thereligionofpeace.com/attacks/american-attacks.aspx

So I'm guessing he's not a big fan of Punisher?

They believe that these "loopholes" make them 1. Smarter than everyone else and 2. the only actual humans and everyone else is a slave to the government. We once had one go through our new patient contract and cross out every part that said they have to pay for services rendered then signed it and got upset when we refused to see them.

Half the guys I see with operator beards and Grunt Style shit are just fetishist LARPers. Most vets I know mock these guys because they jack off the the flag and patriotism but have no intention of enlisting.

See, this is what I'm talking about. I can't tell if you're a paranoid hand-wringing liberal who thinks a so tiny as to be insignificant but very loud minority is about to seize power ANY DAY NOW, or an excited delusional /pol/ack who thinks the exact same thing.

If you're just going to write off the supremacists, then terrorism in America in general is just irrelevant.

>300 is fascist
What the actual fuck

The problem is that people desire things others cannot possibly fathom desiring. If you say, "reparations or a civil war," people will choose civil war. They really would prefer death and certain suffering to redistributed or lost wealth and possible suffering.

I don't know how you talk to that.

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This, there's definitely shit head troops but the LARPers are worse. One of my indoctrinated friends brought me to a meeting of his militia, there was literally one ex-military guy there and he was an Air Force mechanic. It's a fucking joke.

Nobody who actually makes good money on agriculture lives out in the country.

You might just be retarded.
Corporation-owned means of distributing information are privately owned by biased individuals. That is a very real thing.
This effects of this are just as bad whether or not it occurs during your libertarian corporate overlords, or whether your government overlords.

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>They really would prefer death and certain suffering to redistributed or lost wealth and possible suffering.
Why would they have to pay for century old events they had nothing to do with?

And it wouldn't be noteworthy if our law enforcement agencies hadn't outright ignored the problem for decades. The Japanese take out their trash, white Americans give them tax breaks.

This! Like, why would you believe you could live in a society and just do whatever YOU want to? Like, the social contract goes both ways, you've got to give as well as take you fucking leech.

If you remove the last scene it's actually the opposite of fascist, but people read it as a badass tragic hero's tale instead of what it was right up until the naval speech, which is a movie about a proud asshole leading his men to certain death for almost no reason.

Maybe Army should fucking do something about this. After all, this shit is their spin-off. It's the dumb fucking vets who do this, and people then imitate them. These people had their identity replaced by the Army, and after it abandons them, they continue with it, or even ramp it up harder. All of this tacticool shit was directly funded by the Army and US government. This gear he paints and describes was literally bought on goverment, taxpayer, and ultimately, his own money.

Can you share some stories? I'm not very familiar with the phenomenon.

>being this deluded
Yeah, shit head hicks who own four acres don't make money. The actual owner farmers who have thousands of hectares and own both farmland, livestock and equipment and multiple compounds make shitloads of money but also have a small profit margin. So it's not good money but it's millions spending hundreds of thousands to make it.

>And it wouldn't be noteworthy if our law enforcement agencies hadn't outright ignored the problem for decades.
Yeah, fuck Americans, amirite?

The issue with reparations is that it implies that a person living in the present day is entitled to recompense because of past issues, who might not even have ever experienced said issues, under vague criteria to get said recompense, and with no real agreement on what that recompense will entail.

He's calling Spartans fascists, and 300 popularized the Spartans.

The Army is just the temporal momentary incarnation of the influence, specific to our country. These people would join whatever other arbitrary ideology presented itself. The root issue is deep in the human psychosis, not an external force.

I live in the lawless wastes of Houston, Texas and I have seen so many of these trucks. The fucking Punisher logo mixed with the Blue Lives Matter flag is a staple of criminals gallivanting as concerned citizens for the HPD.

Also, the extended spinners on tire rims. I think that just might be SLABs though and I am certain the law allows you to shoot SLABs on sight, but I would have to double check.

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You guys aren't actually taking this comic seriously, right? Like, you don't actually buy into this pseudo-intellectual rambling r-right?

I don't think reparations are a realistic argument worth having, but if I had to make a case I assume the general idea with most people that believe in it is that by living in the country you still benefited from the free labor and suffering of the slave class as that helped fuel the economy and development of the country for decades, setting up the country to flourish as it has. So the counter to your point would be "why is it okay for you to live in a society that was built on slave labor, but feel no obligation to reimburse the descendants of those people if you believe slavery to be immoral/unjust?" To which the most obvious counter would be that the descendants are also benefitting from the results of that system, which would also be countered with "possibly, but not at the same rate."

You should be able to explain what's wrong with it then, using solid arguments and without relying on buzzwords. Go on ahead, I'm waiting.

>He's calling Spartans fascists
It's pretty retarded to judge historical nations/societies on modern morals. Granted you can draw parallels but these people never care about history beyond labels. If you like Spartans for instance to them you are a Nazi. Another example would be Jon Green calling the Odyssey a toxic sexist racist work.

Still a rather popular thing in my state (Idaho) we've even got some people going with the thin blue line bootlicking, which also was on a few billboards for a while, combined with the edgy ass punisher skull.

Sovereign citizens believe that because of "loopholes" in laws by saying or doing certain things you can legally get away with a bunch of stuff. For example, putting a comma in between your first and last name when you sign documents so you can claim that it's not your "government name" on the document so you aren't legally responsible for what it says, or it's only a legal signature if it is in your own blood/has a thumbprint in your blood next to it. One of the big ones that they try to get away with when they are in legal trouble they will have signs around their property that will say things like "ALL LAW ENFORCEMENT ENTERING THIS PROPERTY WITH OR WITHOUT LEGAL WARRANT AGREE TO PAY $10,000 PER DAY PER PERSON TO THE LEGAL OWNER OF THIS LAND"

Soon as it got to the toxic masculinity part and what not I skipped to the end to see what the conclusion was. Wasnt surprised. Its these kind of stupid people who think they're deeper than they really are spouting off and fear mongering. Are there dumb people who dont know things, sure. But this propaganda piece isnt talking about nuance. It's a comic book for people who already drink that flavor of cool aid.

>Odyssey a toxic sexist racist work
How much of a fucktard can you be to make such a statement?

>Why would they have to pay for century old events they had nothing to do with?
Everything that sucks about America is because white people feel guilty/resentful that they have to live next to the proof of their shameful history. Some are ashamed America was built on slavery, some are ashamed that they lost a war and had their land, culture, and pride trashed. I'm not here to argue which is proper to be ashamed of. I'm just saying that y'all are chained to this past. It eats you up at your core. It distorts every policy debate we have, every value we have, every decision we make. Because no matter what you want for yourself and your family and your community and your nation, you have to consider where the black man factors in, for good or ill.

There're only two ways out. One is getting rid of us. A lot of people won't like that. Hence, civil war. The other is reparations. We are a capitalist society, we work on transactions, of money or service or good or good will for like. Caveat emptor, but a contract is a contract, and once it's carried out you're released.

See It's not about culpability. It's about fixing shit so we don't have to deal with this anymore.

I don't know about you, but I'm tired. Do what you're gonna do so the world can move on.

>So it's not good money
That's exactly what I said, though.
The children of some major landholder aren't going to tool around in their LARPmobile on the barely paved backroads of some desolate Nebraska prairie. They're going to get pulled over for a DIU in Omaha. Because that's where their rich parents will actually live.

One specific thing that happens is there's this family that comes in and refuses to sign any paper work with just their signature, they will sign something like "Signed under the legal authority of ___________, under the grace of the Lord"

So by the author's own admission, this is basically the same thing that happened with Vietnam vets and the outlaw motorcycle gangs.

Did people worry about the prospect of the Hell's Angels taking over the country like this?

>It's pretty retarded to judge historical nations/societies on modern morals

I mean yes and no. Obviously there are some concepts that we have now that are the results of hundreds or thousands of years of philosophical thinking. that people wouldn't have had back then. But at the same time empathy is core trait that most people are born with and a rejection of it can be seen as the root of many of the historical troubles.

There's also the question of when exactly is it okay to label something as a moral failing rather than just a sign of the times? Abolitionist existed since before the birth of the US. Hell, when Washington first became president he had to regularly cycle his slaves out of the capital and back to his estate every six months because legally if they stayed in the city more than six months they were allowed to go free, a fact that he hid from all of them and I think only two of which ever caught onto. So was Washington just a man of his time or was he a bastard who wanted to use slave labor because it was convenient for him?

This is cucked beyond belief.

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>What is Mad Max?
Given proper amounts of societal breakdown, yes.

Yes, Hunter S. Thompson wrote a really good book on motorcycle gangs and how they're being victimized.

>So was Washington just a man of his time or was he a bastard who wanted to use slave labor because it was convenient for him?
Both desu. That's the thing about history, the things you said and it's never black and white like these loons like to portray it.

Liberal readers encountering a 300-issue conservative comic:
>"Wow, cool! I can't wait to read the whole thing and praise the parts it did well."

Conservative readers encountering a 12-page liberal comic:
>"Ugh, jeez, can you like, just, NOT? Sigh, this is too hard for me, I'll skip to the end."

While I agree that the people it is describing are terrible, this essay is gay as fuck and basically becomes garbled art school nonsense halfway through

Yes. In the late 60s and 70s there were dozens and dozens of biker gang exploitation films vilifying them

Skulls on gun's is a huge meme for conservative larpers thanks to sniper boy Chris Kyle.

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>I didn't care until whitey started doing it too

Thanks for the explanation, appreciated. I'm suddenly grateful I don't have to deal with that kind of stuff at my workplace.

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>300 issue conservative comic
When? There are liberals who can't take comics they misconstrue into being conservative comics. Hell there are ones that can't take conservative writers and artists getting work.

The Nib?

This is shit, I'm a marine and I'm literally shaking from rage reading this.

Scumbag! I hope he rots in prison for sedition.

He's flat out wrong in pretty much every aspect. Military vehicles look nothing like what he describes, the aesthetic more closely resembles vehicles used by security forces, said security vehicles are mostly stock outer bodies that have undergone low-visibility armoring, beards were used by special forces to ingrain themselves in local cultures, PMCs only outnumbered troops because the bulk of PMC activities were service jobs, the current beard trend is only about 5 years old, the current trends for tricked out cars are an evolution of trends going back 20 years (low riders gave way to ricers, which gave way to jacking up cars and trucks as a reaction alongside the price point of used trucks dropping), passenger cars account for the majority of pedestrian deaths, the militarization of police long predates the WoT - it's as old as Nate Powell himself - and the use of military gear by cops is a direct result of the government selling surplus to law enforcement for pennies.

It’s literally a reference to Cerebus you cosmic faggot.

Letters of Marque was an international concept. The hell is this blabber?

I’m not a conservative and this is fucking stupid.

>Comparing this trash to the work of Dave Sim

There's only one 300-issue conservative comic. It comes very highly-recommended by liberal comic icons like Alan Moore, Neil Gaiman and (remember her?) Gail Simone. It's one of the most important and influential comic books of all time, being the trailblazer which changed how comics are made (writing-for-the-trade instead of writing-for-the-single-issue) and one of the kickstarters for the self-publishing and creator-owned movements. If the name doesn't immediately pop into your head then I must laugh at you for being a casual.

>There's only one
Strange thing that.

I think part of it has to do with Frank Miller being (at least was) a facist himself. Definitely a stretch to call Spartans fascist, but I can kinda see where the thought process is.

It's a conspiracy! So unfair.

Alright then, give a framework for fixing it that takes into context individual culpability for enjoying the benefits of society that is both equal and non-punitive.

What a strange hill for you to die on. There aren't many 300-issue comic books at all. The only other one that immediately comes to mind is Hellblazer.

Naw at least not in most the American South.

You always have the retards in the sticks but cops are just driving normal trucks and cars.

And the retards in the sticks can't afford to make custom punisher mobiles.

>Frank Miller fascist
Based on what exactly?

>hurr what a strange hill for you to die on hehehe
have sex

One thing I learned about this is how bears, sunglasses and hats obscure facial recognition and thus, accountability.

If that is true, then that's pretty scary.

Rest of this has bits of truth mixed with mostly pearl clutching, and I'm a filthy liberal.

The reason beards became more allowed and popular in the middle East is entirely for the benefit of the civilian population. Culturally the folks in these regions grow beards as part of their faith. Examinations of interactions with locals found quicker trust and more openness with bearded troops. Hence why SF started the earliest and it eventually trickled out to regular units

Not that user, but Miller kinda went off the deep end after 9/11 and while I wouldn't personally describe his views as fascistic, he definitely became very authoritarian and in favour of Bush's oil wars. He drank the neocon kool-aid basically, which was particularly jarring for a lot of people after he'd been so critical of Reagan in TDKR. I think he's almost recovered now.

Holy Terror dude. He's kinda since renounced the book, says it's about 'what he was going through at the time', which is why I saw (at least was).

It never trickled down to regular units. Beards are still pretty much just SF, and even they still have strict regulations regarding beards when not in the field, and units specifically tasked with interacting with locals. The vast, vast majority of troops will be clean shaven.

theguardian.com/books/2018/apr/27/frank-miller-xerxes-cursed-sin-city-the-dark-knight-returns

Both these answers seems plausible.

Hmm.

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I mean beards and shades will be the defining look of this conflict. Similar to flack jackets and no shirts for Vietnam. It's the most popular type of photos people like to show

>armytimes.com/news/your-army/2017/03/05/the-army-could-let-soldiers-grow-beards-no-seriously/

I feel like the core message of this "article" is that the Forever War is having unintended consequences on future generations, and that this is being expressed through turning symbols such as The Punisher or the Spartans into proto-facist symbols. If so, I think the stronger argument to make is to blame these effects on the "Forever War" and not so much on the consumption. The author even says that Travis Bickle's readings change by era. Consumption of "facist" media can change if the era is one of eternal military conflict. But of course, I'm against the endless war, so of course I'd feel that way.

He is taking a bunch of different demograpics(hobby related or political) he is neither part of nor in anyway related to and combining them into one singular strawman which he then spends a few pages projecting what I can only assume is either his own insecurities regarding race and gender, or a pre-packed boogieman he has been spoonfeed from someone else, on to. His assumption on the character of these people, is baseless, yet he act as if he has insight.
The comic also has a heavy usage of buzzwords(toxic white masculinity etc.), and unsourced facts we are just meant to accept.

I like the art though.

I also want to point out this creator is flat out ignoring decades of rich customization within already existing military guidelines for uniforms. Helmet covers in particular are an amazing example. This dude didn't do two seconds of research

Interesting read.

You're just now learning that covering your face obscures it?

That's absolutely what the comic is about, it's a critique of the warping effect of the Forever War. I don't understand how people come to different conclusions about it when it's been a consistent thread throughout the whole thing.

The problem lies in the use of the term "proto-fascist." Fascism is horribly nebulous word with even outright stated fascist groups having major differences in philosophy and ideology. Proto-fascist is ultimately a meaningless word, and by definition not fascist.

I thought the black flag was just because prior soliders thought the look of IR flags was cool.

740 acres mostly alpha. We ship to as far as Saudia Arabia. Maybe 2 to 4% profit margin.

400 acres in potatoes and we contract with freto lay. That's where the money is.

I drive a simple beater Chevy pickup. People with giant trucks are a urban thing. Also the floor boards are covered with brass from pop shots at prairie dogs.

I'll drop "proto-fascist" if everyone else will drop "liberal" like it's an insult.

Alright understandable.
Why not just use fascist then?

>Nuance is good, people who try to rebrand subtle, complicated issues are bad.

>Here’s an essay about why I think black trucks are icky
>also wypipo
I just sighed so heavily my brother came into the room and asked me if I was ok

Because that would be inaccurate. It's annoying when conservatives use "socialist" and "communist" interchangeably, so liberals are trying to be considerate by clearly separating "fascist" and "proto-fascist".

>Why not just use fascist then?
Because everything everything everything is plausable deniablity these days. No-body would ever agree what they are doing actually counts as any specific ideology. So you have to say "crypto" to knowledge the fact that you made your own conclusion about their motives, since everyone is a dishonest actor.

And then everybody clapped.

I get the symbolism of the color draining out of the flag, but what's the deal with the single blue stripe appearing?

Replace the first panel with "my dad who was in the Air Force" with "my women's studies college professor" and then you have an accurate comic depicting liberal brainwashing.

It's a real-life pro-cop symbol, like a twist on the Black Lives Matter thing.

Attached: 51V8wYHpQML._SL1024_.jpg (1024x625, 62K)

It might be a reference to the fanboys of Donald Trump. They saw a video of him coloring an American flag incorrectly, and instead of taking it as evidence of his declining mental faculties, they appropriate it as a symbol to celebrate.

>This is how the flag SHOULD be!

>le have sex u fuken virgen hehehehhe
you're the guy on a comics board who hasn't heard of Cerberus, which immediately makes me think you're some kissless virgin reading marvel and complaining about SJWs.

Explicitly it's the "thin blue line."
This isn't exactly an esoteric reference.

The growing appearance of
>virgin
and its variants an an insult on Yea Forums is an indictment of just how normified this place is becoming.

The reason people put so much importance on having sex is because the same people who decry this practice are the ones drilling it into people's head that it's important.

also because it's a fundamental aspect of being a homosapiens, you were literally born to fuck. If you can't, everyone recognizes that you are a failure on an animal instinct.
Maybe if we were immortal space crystals or digital robot avatars, we would think differently and then it would be OK to be a virgin, it would be meaningless. But the fact is we are animals, live with it.

Appealing to nature when judging people isn't as effective as you think it is.
But here's your (you.)

Wouldn't that make gays a failure of nature as well?

Are you kidding? It was Air Force. Barely a soldier.

They are still fucking, lol.

Again, animal instinct to fuck is based on reproduction. You weren't born to fuck, you were born to reproduce.

This makes gays a failure in this same vein as virgins.

Communist thought puts socialism as an intermediary step towards full communism and the most communist governments call themselves socialist.

He's flat out wrong about the Jolly Roger. Privateers were required to fly a modified version of the colors of the nation that granted them their letter of marque, specifically to prevent them from being mistaken for pirates.

Well that was a different dude just shitposting.
But yeah I haven't read Cerebus, but I also haven't read Marvel in years. The SJW bitching is tedious because it's just a diversionary tactic distracting from the continual slipping quality of comics in general. I just think it's simplistic to paint all liberal detractors as "live and let live" types when it's obviously not the case especially when they're just random fucking nobodies online.
I'm mostly just reading euroshit storytimed hereand basic bitch manga

That doesn't change the fact it's a lazy normie ad-hom used to try and assert superiority over "losers", even though we're on fucking Yea Forums talking about comics and cartoons. Everyone here is a social loser, otherwise we wouldn't be here. We're also fucking anonymous so anyone's claims to be a mega-chad mean nothing.

user that's why they use it

>muh white guy gets off meme
Kill yourself it isn't true.

We were also born to shit in place standing up but we don't mock people who use toilets. There's nothing wrong with jacking off your whole life and dying a virgin. It's the genetic equivalent of being gay. All that matters is what you do with your life to make the world a better place. There are plenty of people who have lots of sex and lots of kids who are only making things worse.

Nate Powell is the best cartoonist of the century

why lie? You'll get pulled over the second you pass a policeman.

>There's nothing wrong with jacking off your whole life and dying a virgin.
kek

No. That's not the point. Everyone contributes to a war effort once it kicks off, regardless of individual culpability. You do what you can and you do what it takes.

Not disagreeing with you, but there's no shortage of people who feel otherwise who are not going to be shy about sharing that opinion.

>MAGAtards deserve a death sentence.
You similarly sound exactly like that. Which is to say your projection is nothing more than your projection.

You say this bullshit as if there were any facts in this.

they actually do though

>movie
I hate casuals

I can't imagine actually thinkin this. Congrats on living in 1967.

Well the movie's what made it popular.

>kneejerk dismissal for no reason
Proved my point.

>fanboys of Donald Trump
President Donald Trump, show some respect son!

I'm willing to go to war over it yes. I don't know how you can talk to someone who blames you or their problems based on race and wants money because of it. That's absurd

Nah. It's just as easy to tell black people to grow up or fight about it. Not wanting to just fork over money does not make one the aggressor. The lazy complaining fucks who want a pay out because their ancestors sold them are the aggressor.

Name one.

Nothing about hot terror is fascistic.

It's already been named, you fucking tourist.

Since you come here for politics and movies, and you don't actually give a shit about comics, you have to go back.

The government should actually do something about it, we are terrible at reintegration to civilian life and the lackluster health and mental health care veterans receive from the VA is a major problem.

It's not an insult liberals are just worthless.

They already named the one.
>Hot Terror
Sounds sexy.

Did you even read my post? I said I DIDN'T think he was a fascist, just a neocon authoritarian.

>implying reparations will fix any of that
Are you serious?
Do you sincerely believe that government hand outs will just suddenly cause more than a centuries worth of ill-will to evaporate?
You need a reality check.

Attached: mfw.png (220x479, 100K)

>conformity bad!
>t. retard spouting the same dumb shit as everyone else

Based

>Hillary
You mean the pro-military war-hawk (like almost everyone else in American politics, D or R, because the country has a military fetish)?

>>t. retard spouting the same dumb shit as everyone else
>"Based"

Attached: 789.jpg (656x465, 26K)

People feel defensive because it feels like it's blaming them, personally, and what they enjoy. That's just how it is, people feel so divided because politics are so divided and political identity has come to mean a great deal to people.
This article could've stressed that the "Forever War" is the true culprit a bit more, maybe that would make people less defensive. I feel like that's the only really conclusion we can offer in these divided times that won't divide people further.

This division is deliberate, no good-faith effort can repair it. You would have to root out all the insidious foreign agents and false-flag disinfo propagators before you could make any headway with deprogramming the cultists.

No, the b&w flag with one blue stripe is in support of police officers after Black Lives Matter spent months saying they were all evil.

Just reading this thread is objective proof that Yea Forums has become 999,999,999,999,999% Satan worshipping evil, and that humanity does not deserve to exist.
Let the race war finally come. Let every disgusting human attempt to exterminate each other over the color of their skin, the sky fairy they worship, whether they have/like penises or vaginas, whatever. Let the grand war finally come so this horrid parasitic race called "humanity" wipes itself off the planet.

Just the majority, not all.

To be fair, this was a result of police killing black people.

Maybe cops shouldn't defend themselves with "a few bad apples".

Bad apples spoil the whole bunch.

It's like pottery, even if he intended it to be a scathing rebuttal or something gay

Good job outting yourself as a strawmanning brainlet by regurgitating that stupid "X bad" meme. You know Reddit has been all over that for like three months now? Get with the times you clueless newfag dipshit.

The problem with the "Forever War is bad" mentality is that it has to be taken in light of a revanchist Russia and a China that believes it owns everything touching the South China Sea.

>no arguements

That's not really a loophole so much as a non-lawyer trying to use the same tricks a lawyer would use in a courtroom. Blame the legal system for being fucked up not the guy trying to get ahead of it.

The concept of a sovereign citizen is simply based on a lie.

>it's war or a shakedown, no other option
doubt.jpg

I love how unintentionally hilarious this shit is

>IT'S THE OTHER GUY WHO WANTS TO BE VOLDEMORT, SO I'M JUSTIFIED IN PLAYING HARRY POTTER
>THEY'RE THE MANCHILDREN, NOT ME NOW EXCUSE ME WHILE I GO PLAY WITH MY COMFORT LEGOS
>DARTH BANNON AND HIS TOXIC MASCULINITY

Projection much, faggot?

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>use a word
>it sounds similar to a meme already in use so some roastie cunt gets assblasted

That's funny too

Be that as it may the government and courts regularly choose to re-interpret law as it pleases them, so I can't fault an individual for trying to confound their bullshit even if he might be a loon.

>Be that as it may the government and courts regularly choose to re-interpret law as it pleases them
Can't argue with you there; you're legally not allowed to collect rainwater on your own land for your own personal use.

>hot terror
>a group of college sluts get stranded on a mexican beach. Some of them are lesbians. What they don't know is that a lesbian-hating machete-wielding predator is lurking in the shadows, waiting to murder them all.

>ironically the lesbian-hating, machete-wielding predator is a lesbian herself

Sounds like the type of faggot that kept his mouth shut when Obama was drone striking people.

Maybe yes, maybe no. Perhaps a "Forever War" mentality is what is needed to keep Chinese expansion at bay. But the "Forever War" is also hurting our lives at home, if this article is to be believed. Is it worth the trade off? It's a question worth debating openly. The problem is, as other anons have pointed out, you don't get open debates with the media as fragmented as it is.

I think there's a Splatterpunk porno about this.

Just trying to decrease the number of dead/wounded American soldiers, in a conflict created by Republican politicians empowered by Republican voters. But perhaps your memory fails you.

So you're actively asking people to go rape.
Nice.

>Wypipo is dangerous
>Let's keep antagonizing them

Yet democrats got the US into both world wars, dropped nukes on a foreign country, interred people into camps, and got involved with Vietnam. But sure, republicans are the only bad guys.

Faggot.

Pulling out of Iraq would've also decreased the number of American casualties.
It would also create a power vacuum that would've lead to more suffering, but still, let's not pretend that continuing the slaughter through unmanned drones was the best option Obama had

Ya but children need something to argue about cause self improvement gives them headaches.

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I'm completely unsurprised by the responses in this thread. The people this comic is critical of all type in the same defensive, aggressive tone and use the same sort of rhetoric and terminology. The military and try-hards who emulate the military are not above criticism.

I genuinely think it was the least-bad option. There were no good options after W destabilized the Middle East.

who are you quoting

shitheels in lifted trucks tingle my mangin

Attached: Screen Shot 2019-04-06 at 3.06.15 PM.jpg (841x582, 131K)

The only problem with using drones is when people use them incorrectly and target either intentionally or unintentionally civilians.

Using drones against military targets isn't the problem with drones.

And I'm not surprised by your passive-aggressive response to no one in particular because you're a faggot/woman who literally refuses to leave a board where you disagree with most people and are continually upset you can't get your way.

It's convenient. Time and again I keep coming back to this essay: slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/30/i-can-tolerate-anything-except-the-outgroup/

And it's relevant because what starts as an interesting examination of the miltarism embedded in our culture turns very quickly into the same tired "RED TRIBE BAD" tripe, because the author's own biases against the outgroup cause a huge cognitive breakdown.

>It's the dumb fucking vets who do this, and people then imitate them.
It's mostly the cast off dregs of the military. The guys who couldn't cut it due to attitude, PT or criminality and the faggots who circlejerk at the idea of CoD and Chris Kyle (who I blame for popularizing the Punisher skull with these retards) trying to get the "feeling" of being in the military without actually putting in the work and enlisting. I can't speak for the other branches or jobs but aircraft maintenance in the Air Force is surprisingly chill, most of the guys I see getting out just want to go back home, finish school, smoke weed and work at Boeing, Lockheed ext.

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Hot

is anime a altright symbol now?

>got involved with Vietnam
Daily Reminder that Nixon sabotaged Johnson's peace talks. Maybe Republicans are the bad guys.

I don't think it matters since I live in a state where open carry is legal and never see this kind of shit. The only thing I've noticed is that as the price of gas has tended to go downward more retards are buying trucks they don't actually use for hauling, and these same retards drive like shit and act like they can push people off the road.

Rather than gun licenses there needs to be a fucking IQ test to get a driver's license to prevent retarded apes from ruining my drive.

Just anime waufus have been successfully appropriated by the alt-right.

The guy says that the removal of nuance is bad, but then presents a remarkably unnuanced perspective on red America, namely that they are all evil and a threat to the common good. It demonstrates an astonishing lack of self-awareness.

Why even idolize that prick anyway? I'd rather look up to Simo Hayha or Mad Jack.

Who passed the Gulf of Tonkin resolution?

Literally everything is an altright symbol if it has ever been posted on Yea Forums. Welcome to the internet hat machine.

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If he had self-awareness he wouldn't be a regressive leftist, mind you.
People with awareness are called Centrists, and they are hated by everyone.

No it's okay because he says he grew up in Red America therefore he can say whatever he wants.

Reparations is a terrible idea because if there is one thing about human nature that is a constant is that we hate the idea of anyone getting ANYTHING over us. Every other ethnic group in the country will be absolutely ass hurt if it actually happens, they'll cry about all of the abuses their people went through and demand their cut and when they don't get it they will take it out on Blacks. 300 years in this country surviving slavery, the Civil War, Jim Crow, the Klan twice and crack cocaine and now we're trying to commit political suicide for what, a couple of dollars

Attached: 1549656312726.png (264x378, 60K)

"Conservative"/"Republican"/"Trumpist" take literally any form of information whatsoever as confirmation of their paranoia and thus "proof" that they are being Gang Targeted for their race, which justifies their own racism and thus terrorism.
You would think, oh, just ignore them and they will stop being deplorable, however at this point their hatred is self-sustaining will persist regardless of what "the other side" does anymore. They are hellbent on chaos.

>who literally refuses to leave a board where you disagree with most people
Did you temporarily forget that you are on Yea Forums and not /pol/ safespace?

So not having fully read this just skimming the a few of the pages it seems like someone looking way to deep into aesthetics and making sweeping moralistic generalizations about large groups of people, would I be incorrect in that assumption?

True enough. Even if I wish Obama had taken a risk and tried for something better, it could very well have blown up in his face and left us worse off. I'm still disappointed in him, though.

The single variable is your own bias, if you oppose the author's tribe then you inevitably figure out a way to disagree with him.

It all comes back to the Moviebob mentality where other people having different values and ideals than you is a convenient excuse to deny them their humanity, because they're just obstacles in the path of your enlightened utopia.

Can you provide a single example of the phenomena you're describing?

He didn't always make the best choices, but I feel like he did TRY to make good choices overall. I can't say the same for his predecessor or successor.

Bullshit you are, a marine wouldn't even be able to read this let alone spell "sedition" correct even with the help of spell check

While you were writing this post did it ever occur to you that you're clearly assblasted because Yea Forums specifically isn't your safe space?

>Bad apples spoil the whole bunch.
Does this logic apply to other groups?

>couldn't conquer any point
>can't admit defeat
Typical sjw.

Only if they're capable of moderating their own groups. So no, ethnic demographics can't apply because there's no way to fire someone from what they irreparably are.

Same thing happened in the 90s, gas prices tanked so everyone bought SUVs.

>when you're a dyed in the wool queer with a women's studies degree who drives a V8 Ram, has spent the past 4 tax returns on nothing but guns and gun accessories, and lives in rural Alabama, and you've had far more success convincing rednecks to be okay with gay marriage and birth control than you ever have with convincing lefties to be okay with guns

Really gets the noggin jogging, doesn't it?

You asserted a false sense of group consensus to make your "side" seem taken for granted, just as you would if you forgot that you weren't on your home board. I wanted to debunk that to show that you slipped up.

He literally continued or expanded upon Dubya's existing policies.

>the author can't be wrong, you can only be biased

>neocon authoritarian
That's literally a definition of fascism.

There is no truth, everything is opinion, nothing is real.
Art can either be just an opinion, or wrong, but never true.

To be fair "let fags wear condoms" is easy to dismiss than the idea that any day some psychopath will lay waste to you or someone you love even given the low chance of it actually happening.
figuratively

Trump's only saving graces are, unironically, his memes and the fact that he isn't Bush and didn't destabilize the Middle East and then get away with lying about it to the world because he gave Michelle Obama some candy.

Trump's memes are important because they gave a voice to the disenfranchisement that'd been building in America, and I feel like there was a lot of genuine utility in that. Before Spencer co-opted the name, the nascent "Alt-Right" movement had the potential to be anything. It could've been a rejection of both neo-liberal globalization and neo-conservative warmongering, both positions I strongly agree with. Now it's tainted by its Neo-Nazi inclusions. Makes me sad, man.

Is some rando traffic cop in say Milwaukee capable of moderating the behavior of some SWAT operator in LA?

It just seems weird to hold anyone accountable for the actions of anyone who isn't them specifically or someone they have direct authority over.

>Entry-level
>Muh political parties are a vector for racism
>Beginning the dive
>Political parties naturally create ethnic divisions because people will subconsciously associate with members of their own ethnicity and political conflict of interests exasperates this
>Going further out
>Ideological conflicts are necessary in a republic because a republic is built on ideals and not individuals
>Exiting the kiddy pool
>Attempting to end differences in opinion will inevitably lead towards a dictatorial government because people will focus on the person in charge instead of the policy
>Into the depths
>That's exactly what's been going on for years

Attached: Papa Benedict.jpg (250x250, 7K)

Shame that it became wannabe terrorists and collaborators with hostile foreign powers against our country.

He ticks all the right boxes for certain kinds of people and the Clint Eastwood movie only helped make him popular while white washing a lot of the more unpalatable parts of his story as not to piss off potential fans. Honestly I thing a lot of people like him second hand and don't really look into his story kinda like MCUfags trying to have comic discussions

Gee user that's a really long way to type "NO U"

>our country

My country

Spencer created the alt right name, dummy

t.

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I don't even really know what the author is getting at which is why I pointed out having only skimmed it, I'm just stating the vibe I was getting from what little I had read which sounds a lot like some 90's christian soccer mom describing how goth clothes and Marylin Manson music would make all children in the school start worshiping Satan.

The only bearded people in my local area are college students

I'm not even talking about that, something as basic as "if you're feeling threatened, buy a gun and learn how to use it." It's infuriating to constantly hear people within my extended social circle constantly talk about how they feel unsafe because Trump and rednecks and white people (even though they're almost all white) and the only response to "buy a gun" is hemming and hawing followed by excuses, and then usually anger when I say that they can't be feeling that threatened if they come up with reasons not to defend themselves. I have offered free guns to people talking about how they're in fear for their life, only to get turned down.

It's pretty telling that /k/ shits on Kyle.

>There're only two ways out. One is getting rid of us. A lot of people won't like that. Hence, civil war. The other is reparations.

Or, option three: you grow the fuck up and stop blaming events that took places decades of even centuries before you were born for your failures in the present day.

I learned something important today. Thank you.

does this mean wearing sunglasses and black shirts will make people think I'm a fascist

>I have offered free guns to people talking about how they're in fear for their life, only to get turned down.
Oh. Uh -
user I totally don't like guns and uh, I want to defend myself. I totally don't want a free gun just want you to convince me. That's it.

But seriously if you're offering I'm interested.

I'm not offering to give an internet stranger a gun, user, and you really shouldn't want to accept a gun offered by an internet stranger either.

Fair enough.
What kind of holster would you recommend for a makarov?

Apparently having a beard also makes you a fascist

Attached: soiboi.png (553x598, 614K)

Don't own one so I can't help you there, but if it's not a defensive piece you can't go wrong with Soviet surplus fashion. Alternately, get one of those push-through holsters that can rack the slide and flip the safety off to show off at the range.

>one of those push-through holsters that can rack the slide and flip the safety off to show off at the range
Definitely interested in that.

>their shameful history

Slavery has existed long before America has.

Gun ownership is an identity lifestyle cult, it's reasonable that people don't want to be inducted into it.

Is it any different that LGBT+ then?

No it's really not but thanks for playing.

houstonchronicle.com/lifestyle/article/Gun-owners-and-social-media-give-rise-to-a-new-13661906.php

It could almost be great. Or good.
But it might be that he's leaning against anything he's seen in his past as a kid, instead of examining it
Works in reverse just as well

Some people who enjoy a thing also talk about it on social media? Color me shocked.

That's like saying that car ownership is an identity lifestyle cult. Also that article is written with explicit bias.

It's more of a security tool, so like a home camera
Or a phone, really then

While the history on military semiotics is interesting I really don't think Punisher t-shirts are gonna turn our society fascist. Most people already see open-carry maga tacticool shit as cringy anyway (which it kind of is tbqh).

Hillary was honestly more pro-war than Trump is, she wanted a fucking no-fly zone in Syria.

Every country has a "shameful" history, you are acting as if everything wrong with the world started in America. I mean for example do you even know where the word "slave" comes from? Take the e off the end and you'll have your answer, it was white people who were slaves in the first place.

I do not understand your argument at all, I am disabled and compared to everything in history, disabled people have always had it the worst, do you see us asking for handouts due to the past that had nothing to do with us? Stop using your skin colour as a bloody excuse, seriously a woman is more likely to be treated far worse than a different skinned person with disabled people at the bottom of the shit pile.

There was a theory discussed on Sword Forum back in the mid 2000s called "dressed to kill", and this reminded me of it. Basically a common fashion trend across time is dressing to look dangerous. This comic does a great job of noting what the modern incarnation of this trend looks like, bearded operator wanna-bes, guys that conceal or open carry, big black trucks, it's all a fashion statement really.
reshistorica.forumotion.com/t845-dressed-to-kill-fashion-arms-and-armour

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I don't particularly want my only option for safety to be "just make yourself as dangerous as them". Escalation as a solution is exhausting to worry about, and having the thing in my house gathering dust, just waiting for a an accident to happen with it, is tiring too. I don't want to have to buy the necessary storage gear either to keep little Timmy from blowing his friend's head off when I'm not there.
And, you know, not everyone wants to feel their only option is to potentially murder someone if they feel threatened. Some people would just rather take the abuse, because the other outcome is worse even if the consequences aren't happening to them.
I want to pick up lockpicking, and that shit is regulated depending on where you live. It's like saying that instead of regulating a somewhat dangerous hobby it's your prerogative to just get top-of-the-line locks.

I fired a rifle with my uncle once when I was younger, and was just really unimpressed. Then I saw some fat fucks try to kill a squirrel that wandered on to the range with their handgun. So I think my issue with gun safety/ownership is less the actual firearms and more the people drawn to them. I probably wouldn't feel as antsy about owning the damn thing if the most public face of gun ownership weren't the nutters in the NRA. I really just want guns out of the hands of people who want to jerk off with them.
That being said, I had some fun with archery and owned a recurve when I was younger. And I'm pretty sure those things are more dangerous than a handgun.

Out of curiosity, have you ever offered these people a taser? They don't have quite the same cultural stigma as guns (not seen to be as 'deady', even though well...), and I wonder what their response would be.

was he cool?

>They are bad
>the existence of military
>trying to normalize war
You're beyond hope.

>very uniquely American
You're beyond hope.

The NRA is a child death cult profiteering on the deaths of children in the name of Moloch. That's why the center of a target is called the BULLSeye

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>toxic masculinity
alright, time to get off this ride

I'm still baffled people were so supportive of her. It's like everyone forgot the shit she pulled in the prior elections.

Devil's advocate, but you weren't systematically disabled by a certain group of people. And I don't think your ancestors were either. In addition, depending on you disability, you ARE basically given handouts in the form of accessibility ramps and such, that you don't pay for.

That being said modern reparations are retarded because it's been so long that it's not fair to have a nation that hasn't practiced slavery in around a century pay for shit they haven't done. Might as well ask the germans to pay reparations to the jews.

waoh this is epic

>gangs on rural areas
America has over 33,000 black / mexican gangs.
That's where our insane violent / gun crime epidemic comes from, not dudes in cowboy hats.

>hurr durr, people can't be objective, we have to appeal to emotion, it's the only way.
Niggle me this: why not use negative emotion? Why not use fear tactics as a way to further our arguments if we can never convince anyone with "facts and logic"? Why not just kill anyone we disagree with if we can't logically convince anyone our idea is right? If we can't convince them, how do we know that our idea is right without any context? Aren't we the same as everyone else, only making decisions based on emotional fallacies? Stop making generalizations about the rest of us, we're not so bad as arguing as you that we have to resort to personal anecdotes and shitty crytime #relatable stories to convince people we're right, because we believe that the majority of people aren't fucking insane and have the ability to reason out things by themselves. You know, the sole distinction between people and animals.

>I don't particularly want my only option for safety to be "just make yourself as dangerous as them".
Dangerous in what way?
A different study concludes that the four-year violent crime arrest rate for CCW holders is 128 per 100,000. For the general population, it is 710 per 100,000. In other words, CCW holders are 5.5 times less likely to commit a violent crime. [ An Analysis Of The Arrest Rate Of Texas Concealed Handgun License Holders As Compared To The Arrest Rate Of The Entire Texas Population, William E. Sturdevant, PE]

>and having the thing in my house gathering dust, just waiting for a an accident to happen with it, is tiring too
The rate of gun accidents is so low that the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission doesn't even mention them in their annual safety reports. Most fatal firearm accidents involve long guns, which are more deadly. These are typically hunting accidents. [Targeting Guns: Firearms and Their Control, Gary Kleck, Aldine de Gruyter ]

>I don't want to have to buy the necessary storage gear either to keep little Timmy from blowing his friend's head off when I'm not there.
Do you have children?
Do you lock up the cabinet under the sink? I sure hope so. Because little timmy is statistically 17 times more likely to accidentally drink bleach than he is to blow his own brains out. And I'm going to assume you have no problems keeping something that much more dangerous to his health and livelihood than a firearm. [WISQARS Injury Mortality Report, Center for Disease Control]

>Some people would just rather take the abuse, because the other outcome is worse even if the consequences aren't happening to them.
Objectively speaking someone who is committing a crime getting hurt or killed is a better outcome than an innocent person being hurt by someone committing a crime. If it comes down to self defense, then it's because your life is in danger. Of course, this is all up for debate on who's life you value more. [CONTINUED]

>because the country has a military fetish
You mean controlled by sex / drug traffickers and ZOG interests.

Whites are being 'systematically disabled' now. None of the millions we pump into black education / causes does a damn thing, objectively, for their mean IQ. We still pay for their existence in literally every other way possible. White taxes + welfare goes almost entirely into propping-up South Americans and blacks.

Police are always minutes late when your life is actively in danger. Owning guns / weapons in the home was a norm until the last century. Tasers have proven, again and again and again, to be useless next to a gun. Nevermind you only get one fucking shot.

>I fired a rifle with my uncle once when I was younger, and was just really unimpressed. Then I saw some fat fucks try to kill a squirrel that wandered on to the range with their handgun. So I think my issue with gun safety/ownership is less the actual firearms and more the people drawn to them. I probably wouldn't feel as antsy about owning the damn thing if the most public face of gun ownership weren't the nutters in the NRA. I really just want guns out of the hands of people who want to jerk off with them.
11% of police shootings kill an innocent person — about 2% of shootings by citizens kill an innocent person. [ Shall issue: the new wave of concealed handgun permit laws, Clayton Cramer, David Kopel, Independence Institute Issue Paper.]
>That being said, I had some fun with archery and owned a recurve when I was younger. And I'm pretty sure those things are more dangerous than a handgun.
I cannot confirm or deny this. More data required about lethality of accidental (or intentional) bow and archery shootings. Side note: Archery is fun. Wish I had kept my compound bow but it got lost in the move. Lost almost everything in that move but that's a completely different story.

[CONCLUDED]

[CONCLUDED]
>Out of curiosity, have you ever offered these people a taser?
I should state for clarity I'm not that user. However. Tasers suck. Here's a video on them by a police officer: youtube.com/watch?v=xIQ3A7uWxzU
tl;dw
A taser works by firing two probes attached to wire and completing a circuit through the victim. If there isn't a complete circuit, the taser will not function.
If a single probe or both probes of the taser misses - the taser will not work. If it's outside the range of a taser (5-10 feet) the taser will not work. If a single probe is deflected or fails to make direct skin contact (tasers notoriously fail to penetrate even a thick coat or denim) the taser will not work. If either of both probes is physically removed by the victim the taser will not work. There are so many situations where a taser will simply fail. As you may or may not have pointed out, tasers can also lead to accidental death in even otherwise healthy individuals.

I understand what he's trying to say but I don't think cheetos are a sign of evil

Are you for real? Disabled people have always been systematically oppressed by everyone, please at least read disabled history, animals had more rights than disabled people did.

Depends if they had disabilities or not, if they did they surely would have been, again you lack historical knowledge, at least you were together, had shared suffering, disabled people have always had to handle fair worse treatment alone.

We are not given handouts because of past slavery or anything you numbskull, we are given support because without it we physically cannot exist without it, are you trying to compare being black to being disabled? lol pathetic.

I agree, it is stupid especially since they are not the ones suffering so why on earth should they get reparations over something that has not happened to them individually?

>I'm just saying that y'all are chained to this past
>It eats you up at your core
By design, yes.

Welfare was literally invented for black people. We've spent an ungodly amount of money trying to give them more opportunities and better schooling. It doesn't really help. At all. They'll blame us when the money disappears and they're all back to square one.

Spoken like a true Moviebob.

The only reason you don't have a lolcow page while he does is because you're on Yea Forums. You're lumped with the rest of the degenerate alt rights here.

Like i want to think this is a woke take on how steeped in right wing white nationalism the USA is but I don’t think it is.

>right wing terrorism makes up the vast majority of terrorist activity in the United States
>They are hellbent on chaos
You might just be retarded.

Attached: Terrorism.jpg (852x805, 221K)

In America
Besides Islamists ain't Liberal.

Worldwide. Putting aside he ones committing the vast, vast majority of violence in this country is coming from the people liberals love. Also, a Bernie bro literally shot a senator.

1. October 29, 2018: Actor James Cromwell: There will Be ‘Blood in the Streets’ Unless Trump Stopped
2. October 29, 2018:Twitter allows 179 death threats against Trump
3. October 29, 2018: FL: Shots Fired into South Daytona Republican Party Office
4. October 28, 2018: Left-wing mobs disrupt Marsha Blackburn (R-TN) rally
5. October 25, 2018: New York Times runs story fantasizing about Trump’s assassination
6. October 25, 2018:GOP headquarters vandalized in Iowa City, IA
7. October 24, 2018: Left-wing activist with history of harassing GOP lawmakers arrested for trying to buy radioactive material
8. October 24, 2018: N.J. GOP Congressional Candidate Receives Letter Threatening His Children
9. October 23, 2018: Boulder thrown through Rep. McCarthy’s (R-CA) office window
10. October 21, 2018:Obama’s former deputy secretary of state, Philippe Reines says harassment of McConnell and his wife “is fine”
11. October 20, 2018: Watch–Angry Leftists Harass McConnell, Wife at Restaurant: ‘Why Don’t You Get Out of Here?’
12. October 19, 2018: New York Man Charged With Threatening Two Senators Over Kavanaugh Support
13. October 18, 2018: Dem operative for Soros-funded group arrested for ‘battery’ against Nevada GOP candidate’s campaign manager
14. October 18, 2018: Rosie O’Donnell calls on military to remove Trump
15. October 17, 2018: TN Restaurant owner’s life threatened for renting space to GOP’s Marsha Blackburn
16. October 17, 2018: Portland Antifa tells 9/11 NYPD widow “YOUR HUSBAND SHOULD FUC*ING ROT IN THE GRAVE”
17. October 17, 2018: Professor calls for harassing Republicans at restaurants, sticking ‘fingers in their salads’
18. October 16, 2018: Person claimed ricin was in letter sent to Senator Collins home
19. October 16, 2018: Left-wing comedian gets physical with Trump supporter at Hooters
20. October 16, 2018: Republican candidate Shane Mekeland punched in Minnesota restaurant

But in America, Terrorism is predominantly Right Wing Extermists.
And A Bernie Bro shot a senator.
A /pol/tard did too, plus a bunch off other shootings.
Tiny taters compared what righties get up to.

21. October 16, 2018: Gov. Cuomo (D-NY) Blames GOP for Antifa Attack on Manhattan Club
22. October 16, 2018: Republican State Rep.Sarah Anderson assaulted in Minnesota
23. October 16, 2018: DFL Employee Calls for Republicans to be Beheaded
24. October 15, 2018: Vermont GOP House Candidate Receives Threatening Letter
25. October 13, 2018: VIDEO: Republican Justin Fareed’s Campaign Canvasser Allegedly Chased, Assaulted
26. October 12, 2018: GOP office vandalized in Mesa, AZ
27. October 12, 2018: Antifa Smash Windows, Deface Doors of Metropolitan Republican Club in Manhattan
28. October 11, 2018: Anti-Trump Protester Threatens to Rape Conservative Reporter
29. October 11, 2018:A truck with ‘Trump 2020’ bumper stickers was left at a bar overnight. Someone set it on fire.
30. October 10, 2018: Susan Rice’s Republican Son Assaulted at Pro-Kavanaugh Event
31. October 10, 2018:Eric Holder Tells Dem Activists: ‘When They Go Low, We Kick ‘Em’
32. October 10, 2018:CNN says mobs have “constitutional right” to chase Republicans out of restaurants
33. October 9, 2018: Hillary Clinton opposes “civility” with Republicans.
34. October 8, 2018: Raw Story’s Editor: Steve Scalise ‘Accomplice’ to His Attempted Murder
35. October 8, 2018: Leftist Teacher Tweets: “So Who’s Gonna Take One For the Team and Kill Kavanaugh?”
36. October 8, 2018: Antifa Takes Over Portland, Harasses Old Man for Disobeying
37. October 8, 2018: Rand Paul’s Wife: I Sleep with a Loaded Gun Thanks to Leftists’ Threats
38. October 7, 2018: Sen. Cory Gardner claims wife received a beheading video over Kavanaugh vote.
39. October 6, 2018: Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY) harassed at airport
40. October 6, 2018:Kavanaugh Protesters Accost an Elderly Trump Supporter
41. October 6, 2018: Sen. Collins Flooded with Abusive Tweets Threatening Death, Violence
42. October 5, 2018:Protesters Chase Graham To His Car Saying They Will Remove Him From Office

43. October 4, 2018:Republican Senators Hit With Death Threats Amidst Kavanaugh Fight
44. October 3, 2018: Ricin and threatening letter sent to Trump
45. October 2, 2018: 2 hospitalized after exposure to powdery substance at Cruz’s Houston campaign office
46. October 2, 2018: GOP Congressman Andy Harris (R-MD) assaulted by protesters
47. October 1, 2018: Vandals Hit IL GOP Headquarters With ‘RAPE’ Graffiti
48. October 1, 2018: Senator Mitch McConnell Badgered At Airport By Anti-Kavanaugh Activists
49. September 30, 2018: Georgetown prof: White GOP senators in Kavanaugh hearing ‘deserve miserable deaths’
50. September 27, 2018:Republican Senators doxxed by Democrat Congressional intern
51. September 25, 2018: CNN Defends harassment of Ted Cruz
52. September 25, 2018: Ted Cruz and Wife harassed out of DC restaurant
53. September 20, 2018:Brett Kavanaugh and family receive death threats
54. September 17, 2018:Gov. Jerry Brown (D-CA) “Something’s got to happen to this guy [Trump], because if we don’t get rid of him…”
55. September 12, 2018: Resistance Makes Rape Threat to Susan Collins Staffer over Kavanaugh Vote
56. September 11, 2018: DC police investigate threat to commit mass shooting at a MAGA event in Trump International Hotel
57. September 11, 2018: Threats of Rape and Strangling’ Force Writer Into Hiding After Anti-Abortion Tweet
58. September 11, 2018: Trump Hater Attacks California GOP House Candidate wth Switchblade
59. September 10, 2018: Hispanic Immigrant says she was spit on in Santa Monica for Trump hat.
60. September 10,2018: Broadway Star Carole Cook on Trump: ‘Where’s John Wilkes Booth When you Need Him?
60. September 10,2018: Broadway Star Carole Cook on Trump: ‘Where’s John Wilkes Booth When you Need Him?
61. September 6, 2018: Media and Leftists Harass Rep. Devin Nunes (R-CA) and His Family
62. September 6, 2018: Black Trump Fan Booted from Bar for Wearing Trump Hat

63. September 6, 2018: Arsonists hit Albany CountyGOP Headquarters in Laramie, WY.
64. September 5, 2018: TV Writer Hopes Kavanaugh Daughters ‘Go to School Without Being Shot’
5. September 5, 2018: Man Ahouting ‘Treason’ Intentionally Rammed Truck into Local Fox Station KDFW
66. August 31, 2018: Dem Rep. Ruben Gallego Threatens Immigration Officials
67. August 28, 2018: California student arrested for stealing MAGA hat from classmate, slapping teacher
68. August 27, 2018: “F” Trump: Flagstaff, AZ, GOP Office Vandalized
69. August 19, 2018: Dad Dares Daughter To Knock Off Guy’s MAGA Hat For 100 Bucks. She Does It.
70. August 18, 2018: Trump supporter assaulted by aging punk rocker.
71. August 14, 2018: CNN’s Chris Cuomo justifies and encourages violence against Trump supporters.
72. August 12, 2018: TX Restaurant forced to close social media accounts over photo of Jeff Sessions
73. August 9, 2018: ‘Frozen’ Actor snatches Trump banner away from audience member
74. August 9, 2018: FBI announce arrest for contract killing threat of ICE agent via Twitter
75. August 9, 2018:Antifa blocks Infowars reporter’s access to park
76. August 8, 2018: Democrat protester harass GOP rep. “Shame on your Mexican wife!”
77. August 6, 2018: Infowars reported harassed by Antifa in Portland
78. August 6, 2018:FL: Vandals throw dead fish on Lee Co. Republican headquarters
79. August 4, 2018: Democrat Alison Grimes ‘Jokes’ about Rand Paul beating
80. August 4, 2018: Trump supporter’s car has all 4 tires slashed in Philly.
81. August 4, 2018: Left-wing terrorists Antifa follow and harass Candace Owens
82. August 3, 2018: Anarchy Breaks Out in Portland, With the Mayor’s Blessing
83. August 2, 2018:Man arrested for threatening Rep. SteveScalise
84. August 1, 2018: Woman charged with trying to hit man with her car over Trump sticker
85. July 28, 2018: Sen. Cory Booker Pleads for Supporters to ‘Get Up in the Face of Congresspeople’

87. July 26, 2018: Trump supporter punched in Hollywood
88. July 25, 2018: Trump’s Hollywood Walk of Fame star destroyed … again.
89. July 25, 2018: Man arrested, indicted on charges after allegedly threatening Congresswoman Diane Black
90. July 24, 2018: Sen Cory Booker (D-NJ) Says Brett Kavanaugh supporters are “complicit in evil”
91. July 23, 2018: Denver Post Runs Letter to Editor Suggesting Trump Should Be Executed
92. July 23, 2018: Elizabeth Warren Supporter Shoves Challenger
93. July 20, 2018:Green-Haired “Gender Fluid” Guy Spits All Over Teen’s MAGA Hat
94. July 20, 2018: ‘Hang Trump’ Shirt Peddled on Facebook
95. July 19, 2018:‘New Yorker’ Kills Trump
96. July 19, 2018: CA Anti-Trump Protesters Target Legal Immigrant’s Cafe Over Trump Support, Hurl Feces
97. July 17, 2018: Uber Driver Refuses to Serve Black Conservatives Over MAGA Hat
98. July 17, 2018: Gory Trump Throat-Cutting Art Decorates Portland Gallery
99. July 16, 2018: House Democrat Calls For ‘Military Folks’ To ‘Stop Trump’
100. July 16, 2018: Mob chases pro-Trump group out of Los Angeles bar

A black guy shot-up a white church, before Roof's rampage. Not as high a body count but still.

>Talks about PMCs

How to spot a retard 101: total misunderstanding of what PMCs actually do.

They're stuck in backwater, low-risk areas where they will never shoot at anything, because the military just does not have enough troops to station guards at every single base they own. Actual soldiers go to bases that get shelled or attacked, security companies are stuck 200 miles behind that one and occassionally come forward in order to remove minefields or other menial work.

PMCs are temp agents hired to stand around and just so happen to have guns when they're unlawfully shot at, not zero-accountability badasses who gun down civilians on the regular in high-speed operations.

Zero of these are terrorism.

So that makes it okay?

Like how certain types of animals pretend to be one of their more dangerous cousins to avoid trouble

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Sovereign citizens are just gubment flatearthers.

Do you honestly think that retard cares.

All he cares about is his own white victimhood and he will take any excuse to justify it.

>"Yeah, fuck that guy for caring about something that he percieves as a threat, why doesn't he care about the stuff that *I* care about, doesn't he know it's more important?"

Yes, you should care more about the right-wing terrorist who will shoot you with a gun than the left-wing "terrorist" who will call you rude names in a restaurant.

>The military and try-hards who emulate the military are not above criticism.
yeah they're all nazis

That implies that right-wing terrorists shoot other right-wingers, when in reality they generally don't.

But either way the whole distinction is really stupid because terrorism in general is remarkably rare in the US, especially compared to the past. Overall violence is on a historical downward trend, despite general scaremongering.

Most Civil Rights activists despised the idea of reparations and just wanted cultural integration of African-Americans into American society. Not the self-imposed segregation of today that is the source of many of the black community's issues. You can see the difference in attitude and quality of character as clear as day between Gen X and before, and anything that came later. Older African-Americans are respectful, morally well-adjusted individuals who are happy to have earned their place as Americans, while younger generations are often obssessed with "blackness" and not integrating, because apparently acting like other people makes you a race traitor.

The culture of the lower class in the US is an abomination that keeps people there forever.

>Might as well ask the germans to pay reparations to the jews.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reparations_Agreement_between_Israel_and_West_Germany#Further_claims_in_2009

What do you want them to do?

They live in the most armed country on Earth, the ones where these shootings happen often work in cities with crime rates that among the ten of them turns the US's otherwise nearly-immaculate violent crime rate into a third world country's, they have to deal with people who have been told from birth they're evil and it's better to kill them than go to jail, they are CONSTANTLY shot and killed for no immediately apparent reason as they perform even basic functions of their job, and all the while people tell them that the actions of someone they can't even properly determine the innocence of anymore defines them and their character. Add to that plummeting pay and prestige, and you get the current situation where no one wants to be a cop, even in areas that love cops, cops stop doing their job because they don't want to die and feel like they aren't appreciated, and they're constantly on edge because they honestly cannot know if this otherwise normal-looking black guy is innocent, or is about to pull a gun on and kill them the second they look away like has happened two times in the past month within twenty miles, all over a quarter-pound of weed.

>What do you want them to do?

Have accountability for their actions, is that so hard?

>they are CONSTANTLY shot and killed for no immediately apparent reason as they perform even basic functions of their job
Actually, the rate of violence against coppers is dropping.

Are you purposefully fearmongering, or did you fall for the fearmongering of someone else?

Attached: On-Duty Deaths of Police Officers.png (752x620, 109K)

You realize that the mustache-twirling plantation owners, greedy businessmen opening company stores and destroying unions while forming trusts, and the most vehement racists before the 1940s were all Democrats, right?

We don't *want* the police to have accountability. We'll hem and haw over how awful the police shooting [insert black guy here] was but then all of a sudden when something like MOVE, Waco, or Ruby Ridge happens we can't circle the wagons around the police fast enough. We're willing to overlook police brutalizing some people we like in exchange for them brutalizing other people we don't like. It's the same reason that most prison reform people aren't saying anything about Martin Shkreli being locked away in solitary for daring to want to maintain contact with the outside world. They hate him more than they actually care about ending inhumane treatment of prisoners.

The issue is that the US policy wasn't in touch with the reality in the middle east. We went in, obliterated their power structures with a big YEEHAW, shot all the bad people, and left.

Except the "bad" people provided stability and held the place together. Instead of slowly bringing more and more good people in while gently steering a new Iraqi government towards not being shit, we just destroyed the entire edtablishment and left them to rot.

We're doing better now, though, and that much is evident in the agonizingly slow growth of the Iraqi government as we take the backseat to them fighting ISIL.

By letting them shoulder the burden, shed their own blood, and become invested in their own fight, they're achieving a unity they haven't had since the 90s under Hussein.

>Welfare was literally invented for black people
what the fuck are you talking about you fucking spastic, the notion of welfare probably predates american independence.

Meanwhile, in Syria...

The biggest tragedy from drones comes from allied forces providing bad information, or totally unforeseeable circumstances, like that strike in 2017 that hit an arms cache we had no idea was there that turned a 100 pound bomb into a block leveler that killed hundreds.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Democrats

How many Democrats have you seen waving Confederate flags in the past 30 years?

and there was a ton of shit in the New Deal to explicitly exclude black people

Every country is fucked up, but if anyone wants to fix our particular brand of fuck-up this is how.

Spending centuries deflecting like you're doing now is why we're here at this moment.

Maybe the Kurds can form their own nation with blackjack and hookers, and Israel can become the #2 most-hated nation in the Middle East.

Oh my god you're both so fucking retarded, ideology shifts back and forth across party lines and party ideology changes over time to the point where historical labels are largely meaningless and irrelevant.

at this point im really doubting the visual arts ability to infuse any real meaning into anything at all. all these useless images do not really aid the message.

yeah but the party i don't like is responsible for all the racism in the country
t. republicrat

>Car crashes kill 40,000 people per year
>Guns kill 30,000
>But 60% of those are suicides, dropping it down to 18,000
>This isn't even discounting justified uses of force by a police officer which makes up a good deal of the rest

Cars kill more than twice as many people, so your suggestion would unironically save more lives than a total ban on and confiscation of all firearms.

>when something like MOVE, Waco, or Ruby Ridge happens we can't circle the wagons around the police fast enough
Weren't Waco and Ruby Ridge the Feds rather than the cops though? And I'm pretty sure the authorities took a lot of shit for both of those for all the innocent people they killed, and rightly so.

Reparations are not going to fix anything though, the entire concept is a largely symbolic gesture and any sort of implementation would lead to catastrophe. It's a total non-starter and will only become increasingly irrelevant as demographics gradually shift and America becomes more multi-ethnic.

Feds are cops too. And no, they didn't take a lot of shit aside from public outcry. Aside from Randy Weaver winning a lawsuit against the FBI no one else was ever directly held responsible or had to face any sort of meaningful backlash to their actions. No one was prosecuted and it's likely that no one ever will be.

Fuck off faggot

But they're okay with alcohol, despite it killing more people than guns and enabling drunk drivers, who are more than capable of killing you and the ones you love in an instant, through no fault of your own, due to a lack of care? And actively warps the mind and behavior of people, unlike a gun, which is incapable of turning a good person bad?

>they didn't take a lot of shit aside from public outcry
>No one was prosecuted and it's likely that no one ever will be
So exactly the same as when a cop kills an innocent black person then? I thought your point was that the public were hypocrites?

>Waco
>we can't circle the wagons around the police fast enough
Only the ones who have no idea what a horror show that was on the part of the ATF. Weaver did nothing wrong, at all. Half his family was butchered for no reason (starting with the fucking family dog) and the government even paid him 3million to shut up.

Right, so when Republicans were progressive and Democrats were conservative, the Republicans were good and the Democrats were bad.
And when the Republicans became conservative and the Democrats became progressive, the Democrats were good and the Republicans were bad.

Ending slavery? Progressive and good.
Suffrage for women? Progressive and good.
Workers' rights? Progressive and good.
Social safety nets? Progressive and good.
Civil rights? Progressive and good.
Environmental protections? Progressive and good. (Nixonfags step aside; EPA grew out of NEPA, Democrat policy)
Gay marriage? Progressive and good.
Affordable healthcare? Progressive and good.

Throughout history, no matter what the party is named, progressives are where you look for the good stuff. Conservatives are just bad news.

Hey man don't underestimate spellcheck, a monkey could use it and spell sedition so maybe soon a marine could too.

Nah. Guns are a tool. If people want to fuss about their power tools or their guns, let them. You may as well claim anyone who owns a car is a weirdo who reads car magazines and, gasp! Dares to work on them with their own hands!

"The public" as a monolith doesn't exist. Go read the essay I posted in especially the part about the red tribe and the blue tribe

When the police shoot black people, the blue tribe gets mad, when they shoot members of the red tribe the blue tribe circles the wagons. Likewise, when the police shoot black people the red tribe is silent or circles the wagons, but when the police shoot red tribe members the red tribe is understandably angry. The blue tribe hates the red tribe more than they like black people and the red tribe by and large hate black people more than they do the police who shoot them.

That assumes that there's some sort of objective good and evil in politics which is just LMAO

Man, this Moloch guy sure is a busy fella. I thought all the Pizzagate child abuse sacrifices were enough?

Please, by all means, go ahead and tell me that I'm wrong for labeling "ending slavery" as "good".

LEL

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If you feel as if you are uncomfortable with a gun, that's fine. You're not less of a man for that.

But don't also advocate taking them from others, while trying to weaken the police and, for some reason, strengthen the federal government's grip on law. If you value the opinions and rights of others, advocate changes in your local government and leave the rural people who do not have the same beliefs or issues alone.

I mean I don't like slavery and I like ending it, but just because you like something doesn't make it "good". You're treating a subjective opinion as universal truth when in reality there is no sort of universal truth for that sort of thing.

>Whites are being 'systematically disabled' now. None of the millions we pump into black education / causes does a damn thing, objectively, for their mean IQ. We still pay for their existence in literally every other way possible. White taxes + welfare goes almost entirely into propping-up South Americans and blacks.
This is the American edumacation system at work. Just enough to be able to string together this load of shit but not enough to critically analyze whether or not it is, in fact, a load of shit. (Hint: it is.)

The line between "objective good" and "subjective good" blurs in politics when around 95-99% of the population agrees that the outcome was good.

The closest things to "objectively good" goals in politics would be creating long term stability and prosperity for your country. Each of those changes listed fall into that category.

There should be accountability for legitimate bad shoots. I've seen too many people be deliberately obtuse about the facts / footage in justified ones to think that'll change sentiment though, at least on a mass scale.

i don't know? this is an incredibly childish and stupid way to look at history and politics?
but given it's Yea Forums there's a 50/50 chance you're serious
what's your opinion on the fact lincoln wanted to send the slaves back to africa? or that northern states enacted segregation as well? does that make them progressive and good?
Trump going into his presidency in favor of gay marriage and Obama was not? Does that make Obama conservative and evil?

Yea Forums is a machine feeding hats to wolves.

And what if that "long-term stability and prosperity" directly contradicts my best interests?

Which of the items listed directly contradicts your best interests?

>not zero-accountability badasses who gun down civilians on the regular in high-speed operations.
I mean they are sometimes but usually only when someone fucked up.

The problem with "legitimate bad shoots" is that, due to each department having their own guidelines, there is no standard qualifications for what a bad shoot entails. At the extreme end there will be situations where every department would agree it was a bod shoot of course, but when you have one department's guidelines stating one thing and another department's guidelines stating the near opposite, how can one determine what is objectively a bad shoot?

>Most Civil Rights activists despised the idea of reparations and just wanted cultural integration of African-Americans into American society.
Lmao

Hint: Swallow your pride and actually research what happens when blacks get supplied top-of-the-line teachers, schools, curriculum and equipment. It's pretty disheartening.

Well, thanks for the Unknown Armies NPC.

But only when tempered by conservatism. America's history is a history balancing the desires of the populace, where you can never make everyone happy.

Even if you disagree with the guy from Kentucky who thinks gay marriage is wrong, you should respect that, until you hear his reasons, he may have valid ones. Yes, he might just be a bumbling retard, but he also may be a sensitive soul who is enviably pious and has arguments you'd be wrong to simply dismiss on ideological grounds.

This applies to everyone. Stop dismissing people you disagree with as wrong, or someone you only have to listen to in order to appear unbiased. You should genuinely consider the arguments and beliefs of your fellow citizens, because even if you can't agree, you still have to share this country, and no ome deserves to feel as if their voice is unheard and unwelcome.

Depends on what you mean as "you best interests". Don't make the mistake of confusing actual long term peace and prosperity with either something people in power use to get your support (like communist regimes) or with short term gain. As a hypothetical, say you could cheat the financial markets and make several million dollars, but in exchange several thousand employees will be laid off. It is likely in your best interest to do that, but it is in the best interest of society as a whole to prevent something like that from being legal. It's morally right for the government in this case to go against your personal best interests in favor of the society a a whole due to the social contract.

>But only when tempered by conservatism.
How so? Was anything on that list going too far, and required conservatism to hold it back?

What has conservative ideology ever accomplished to compare with the likes of that list?

There area ton of people who will never accept that an armed cop could ever reasonably fear for their life.

>Even if you disagree with the guy from Kentucky who thinks gay marriage is wrong, you should respect that, until you hear his reasons, he may have valid ones. Yes, he might just be a bumbling retard, but he also may be a sensitive soul who is enviably pious and has arguments you'd be wrong to simply dismiss on ideological grounds.

cool story, still wrong

I thought a large amount of whites were on welfare and bellow the poverty line. Granted, this is because it is a majority white country, but to argue that it's only the brown people suckling the system is facetious.
I think there needs to be a lot of revisions to the welfare system as a whole to reduce fraudulent use and abuse, which I think would massively discourage problems like illegal immigration (among other things.)

They're legally disqualified from doing any sort of military-minded mission. That's not to say it doesn't happen, but you really need to look into why it does. There's a big difference between some PMCs running outside the base shooting to grab a wounded US soldier and drag him inside and them driving out in humvees to blow up a base.

..We all have big trucks out here you fuckstick. Road conditions can become bad in severe weather in ways it doesn't in the city. Flooding in random low points. Shit gets in the road. Trucks are safe and practical without going FULL ASSHOLE and having a offroad vehicle you'll never get full use out of. High view. Won't take damage. Can go over shit a car's chassis cannot. Also dark colors need less care to keep nice looking. I have a white one and I'd have to wash it daily with all the shit it can get on it if I wanted to look white. No regrets though. It's a minimal electronics beauty. Little can break in it even if it lacks some cool beep boop bullshit.

It's just a culture thing. Out here we all have trucks.

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I have read research regarding this. The experiment took poorer families and provided them a home in a richer neighborhood, with the remaining families as a control group. Regardless of race, young children in those families saw increased prospects and opportunities. Poor education is just one facet of the major problems facing the poor today. Bad neighborhoods and bad families make even the best teachers and schools in the world next to worthless.

Only Malcolm X advocated for black separation from white America. MLK was very enthusiastic about encouraging true equality and everyone just being an American, without appendation.

The foundation / structure of the entire country?

As an avowed demsoc lefty...this is some paranoid liberal bullshit spawned by too much coffee and time spent crawled up one's own ass.

define conservative and progressive

White people on government welfare don't believe that they're on government welfare. They take social security, medicare and medicaid while believing that these are independent of the government. That's how they can be mad at black people for living on government money, because white people """don't""" do the same.

It's the same principle behind loving the ACA while hating Obamacare. They just keep the two separated in their minds.

I didn't say any of those items did for me, but that's irrelevant. But each one surely did directly go against someone's best interest with zero benefit whatsoever, no?

I feel like it's always been common knowledge that black people have never really wanted to be a part of white America and the Civil Rights movement was largely about improving their quality of life via access to white-owned resources rather than genuine integration. The idea of integration was only really pushed so as to assuage idealistic white liberals.

And so by and large I think the civil rights movement has had a positive effect on black America, but it's also had a bit of a marked downside, mainly in the form of mass exploitation of blacks by the aforementioned white liberals. I continue to assert that media like Roots and 12 Years A Slave are a means by which white shitlibs consume black pain for emotional righteousness as part of a sort of moral sadomasochism. Much of Ta-Nahesi Coates's career is based around this as well. Black Panther reverses the polarity and provides white shitlibs with a masturbatory fantasy of Black triumph in the form of Wakanda. Part of the reason I'm such a big fan of Jordan Peele is that Get Out is the first film where white shitlib exploitation of blackness is finally called out in the media. Peele feels like the first black filmmaker to actually realize the full potential of black agency in cinema!

What social contract? When did I sign such a thing? Does the contract have an exit clause?

And those people are stupid. However, equally stupid are the people who allow cops a pass so long as they claim fear for their life without exception. Policing is a generally dangerous job and of course police should be allowed self defense and some special considerations. However, we shouldn't just blindly accept the killing of innocent people every time either. How do we determine if there was a reasonable fear for life, or if the cop was just a pussy? There's a lot of grey area here and people are feeling that the cops get away with too much. How much trust are we supposed to give the police if apparently they fear for their life in any circumstance?

>Policing is a generally dangerous job

it isn't but ok

Explain, please.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservatism
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressivism

Per capita whites make up half of the ones on Welfare. Blacks make up the other half, which is insane. Whites / Republicans foot the bill for all of it.

yeah those aren't definitions

I agree that in general the best system has progressives with enough power to try to enact new laws and conservatives enough power to temper them (or prevent them if they can convince the voters that such a law would be a net negative). A problem with America right now is that the party supposed to be belonging to conservatives is in the hands of reactionaries and the progressive party is going off the rails. Conservatives refuse to temper the progressives in favor of all out rejection and, not getting anything, the progressives and getting more rabid.

This is probably due to only having two political parties, so each one has to act as a big tent party. We don't have governing coalitions like the European countries so party loyalty becomes a major sticking point in America.

It's more than what you've contributed to the discussion.

Not him, but you're conflating progressivism with Classical Liberalism and Sovial Liberalism, user. Progressivism and Conservatism are unworkably vague terms.

>the entire concept is a largely symbolic gesture
Yes. Exactly. The money doesn't matter, it's just the seal on the contract. The ENTIRE POINT of reparations is to shove a big, fat middle finger up the ass of the people who don't accept black equality. It's the government and American society once and for all getting off the fence and choosing us all living together instead of the eventual, nigh-inevitable genocide.

And we want it. We really do. That's why we elected Obama. Because that was what Obama was supposed to represent. But it's clear that's not enough. If America wants to do this - if we want to wipe the slate clean and move forward without the baggage of slavery, Jim Crow, and white guilt - it has to be an all-in, balls-to-the-wall effort that sends us to the brink.

That reparations aren't feasible is why they're the solution. Going to the moon was "impossible" and we did it anyway and it fundamentally altered how we view ourselves.

This breaks it down pretty easily. imgur.com/a/RpIDYQ3

you've contributed nothing
this

So just saying "you're wrong" is good enough for you to dismiss the beliefs of someone who shares your country?

Why do you think there's so much resentment? It's not about right or wrong, it's about people feeling powerless.

>Going to the moon was "impossible" and we did it anyway and it fundamentally altered how we view ourselves.

it's like american exceptionalism is only for white people

America has gone through periods like this before. Multiple times, even. Federalism was an even bigger and arguably more important shitshow than we currently have.

well it's more than that. he also feels he has the right to kick him off every social media platform and cut off his online bank account and round up a mob to harass him irl

>What social contract
The implicit agreement between peoples needed to form a collective. Some amount of freedom is given to acquire some amount of safety. Some amount of self-interest is forfeited to improve the interest of the whole.
>When did I sign such a thing
You signed it when you were born, and yes you have generally benefited from it in proportion to how much each member gives in. For stable countries you gain the benefits of stability at the expense of the ability to destabilize it. For Safe countries you gain the benefits of the safety while losing the right to endanger that peace. For prosperous countries you gain the benefits of that prosperity while forfeiting the right to decrease that prosperity for your own benefit.
>Does the contract have an exit clause
Sure does. Either move to a country that has a more agreeable social contract or try to become a stateless remote hermit and don't partake in any society at all.

There is always a trade off for anything in this world. No one can eat their cake and have it to.

weird how you're projecting all this when i just said this hypothetical dude was wrong about gay marriage

Well, yeah, this guy from Kentucky wants to lynch the gays and hang them from trees.

I don't have a source for that accusation, but you don't have a source for yours either.

I'm in favour of Reparations because it will mean 40 years of Republican rule. Every Asian and Hispanic gets told: "Hey, you get to pay money to black people because reasons you neither know nor were a part of".

It will also mean an end to affirmative action, and a universal answer to any black person who complains about racism. "Fuck you, you got paid now shut the fuck up. Your shitty life is now your fault."

Or we could stop being romantics and just work on reintroducing family values and work ethics into the black community by giving outspoken people who tear apart "durr you're not black" retards.

I've seen them. I've also seen the rebuttals and studies that show parity when accounting for other, non-racial variables that were ignored in the original studies.

Nothing beats being mommy's little perfect white boy, and the reason has nothing to do with genetics and everything to do with whiteness.

>It's the government and American society once and for all getting off the fence and choosing us all living together instead of the eventual, nigh-inevitable genocide.

Reparations will accelerate the process to genocide by giving a select group of Americans an explicit legal privilege that is denied to other Americans. It will foster resentment and divisiveness and ultimately encourage violent retaliation not just by whites, but by the growing hispanic and asian demographics, plus African immigrants.

And again, the reason they're not feasible is that the American electorate broadly rejects them. Blacks make up 13-15% of the population and assuming every single one of them is on board there still aren't enough white shitlibs alive to get them to majority status. And as the percentage of Black Americans only decreases in the face of increased immigration, the electoral capacity for reparations is going to fall apart even faster. That's the great irony of all of this- if you want to make reparations happen, you need immigration policies that are even more extreme than Trump's.

It's more dangerous than a lot of jobs but at the same time it's dangers are overstated by others and there are jobs that are more dangerous that don't get as much press.

Cops can get attacked and put into dangerous situations, I don't think we should discount that, but it isn't a dangerous enough job to give them a warrant to kill anyone without any form of ramifications.

Didn't Blackwater massacre a bunch of civs in Baghdad?

>"Hey, you get to pay money to black people because reasons you neither know

uh it was the centuries of chattel slavery actually.

also i'm totally for giving reparations for things like Japanese internment camps or the chinese exclusion act, stealing the southwest, and everything Europeans did to the native americans here

At that point, we might as well bypass reparations and just give everyone UBI.

And indeed we might as well.

True equality means addressing the often-violent economic injuries blacks have suffered. Fighting for that is ultimately what got MLK killed.

I won't go through the whole list but I'll comment on the most obvious ones you mentioned.

Social safety nets: offering people money without having to work for it can encourage them to be lazy, dependent, entitled and helpless. In worst case, taxation of hard-working in order to provide money for the less hard-working ones may even mean that the hard workers can't afford children while the irresponsible ones can. So the next generation will learn terrible financial habits from their parents. If this happens in large enough scale, I fear it can undermine the stability of the entire society.

Universal voting rights: do you believe the average person is smart enough to vote responsibly? After some elections that had people voting for national/conservative parties, I've seen arguments that people are too dumb to know how to vote for their own good, and smarter people should make decisions for the dumber people. That would mean return to the idea that voting rights should be earned instead of given freely. Like for example by owning property, or working a job, or raising children, so that only people who have proven themselves as productive and responsible towards their community can make decisions about how it's governed.

probably but you're probably thinking of Fallujah

>or if the cop was just a pussy?
You can't control for how people react in possible life-death situations. Sometimes it was unnecessary but justified from the cop POV, at the time.. A lot of cops are let off that shouldn't be, not arguing that. I'm saying it won't stop the insane amount of people from misconstruing the situation and demonizing.

am I wrong though? that's exactly what should happen
because of

>I feel like it's always been common knowledge that black people have never really wanted to be a part of white America and the Civil Rights movement was largely about improving their quality of life via access to white-owned resources rather than genuine integration. The idea of integration was only really pushed so as to assuage idealistic white liberals.
>And so by and large I think the civil rights movement has had a positive effect on black America, but it's also had a bit of a marked downside, mainly in the form of mass exploitation of blacks by the aforementioned white liberals. I continue to assert that media like Roots and 12 Years A Slave are a means by which white shitlibs consume black pain for emotional righteousness as part of a sort of moral sadomasochism. Much of Ta-Nahesi Coates's career is based around this as well. Black Panther reverses the polarity and provides white shitlibs with a masturbatory fantasy of Black triumph in the form of Wakanda. Part of the reason I'm such a big fan of Jordan Peele is that Get Out is the first film where white shitlib exploitation of blackness is finally called out in the media. Peele feels like the first black filmmaker to actually realize the full potential of black agency in cinema!
Who the fuck are you to assert any of this?

Can you explain in greater detail what you mean by this?

>or try to become a stateless remote hermit and don't partake in any society at all.

Randy Weaver tried to do that, guess how it ended.

Do I get reparations because of my Italian-American heritage and the systemic oppression of Italians throughout American history?

Wow, you really don't know dick about much of anything.

And you're too cowardly to explain why you feel this way.

Yes. Thank you. You get it.

Reparations is white people getting nigger privileges till the end of time. It's literally whatever it takes for a majority of black people to have no problem with white people saying nigger.

It won't stop that of course, at least not right away. But a lot of the mistrust placed in police currently is because of there being this constant feeling that they are operating on an entirely different set of laws than the rest of us. When the police in the public consciousness go from being protectors to overseers, then people misconstruing situations against them and demonizing them, although wrong, is understandable. People need to feel like the cops are part of their communities, are equal to them, and then more trust can be built up.

It's a "who watches the watchmen" situation. Right now, it feels like they are accountable to no one.

I was the person you replied to. I just don't understand what you don't get.

It's not about whether the hypothetical guy is right or wrong, it's about you making up your mind and forcing a decision on him when he had no say. Your mindset turns politics from a debate into a numbers game about making as many people believe the same thing as you as possible so you can make 30-40% of the population feel as if their beliefs and thoughts don't matter.

You could replace him with an African-American in the 40s protesting zoning law changes, and it would be the same thing.

White and black people have the exact same values in this country. The exact same.

>forcing a decision on him
There is nothing being forced upon him. His own right to marry is not being affected. He's the one forcing his own beliefs on others, trying to stop other people from marrying.

And Ruby Ridge is still a contentious issue to this day, seen by many to be a mistake of law enforcement. There are still spots in the wilderness that, if you manage to be entirely self sufficient, you'll generally be left alone.

>You could replace him with an African-American in the 40s protesting zoning law changes, and it would be the same thing.

yeah if you change everything about a situation there's a different response to the situation, wild!

>Reparations will accelerate the process to genocide by giving a select group of Americans an explicit legal privilege that is denied to other Americans. It will foster resentment and divisiveness and ultimately encourage violent retaliation not just by whites, but by the growing hispanic and asian demographics, plus African immigrants.
This is a fantasy because it imagines that reparations happen without the explicit approval of a majority of Americans; that it will be foisted on "good regular folk" by "elite." It can't happen that way. When reparations happen it will be because "good regular folk" want them to happen.

Like two decades ago, where they killed mayne two dozen people due to some retards, at which point the US spent so much money backtracking that, from a cold and utilitarian perspective, more human suffering was caused by the fallout than from the act itself.

They really don't, though. I work at a public library in a pretty diverse community and there is a meaningful cultural divide between blacks and whites that shapes every single one of their actions. The idea that people from different backgrounds are utterly interchangeable is a dangerous liberal delusion that only furthers inequality.

Okay, what about L. Ron Hubbard's venture into seasteading? What about the Branch Davidians? What about Varg Vikernes? What about MOVE? All sorts of radicals and oddballs attempt to exit from society all the time and the same thing consistently happens: they are brought back into line by force. So then perhaps the real question is, does allowing people to exit the "social contract" serve society's best interests?

So in other words, it will never ever happen, exactly like I said it wouldn't.

>Social safety nets: offering people money without having to work for it can encourage them to be lazy, dependent, entitled and helpless.
Better to be lazy, dependent, entitled, helpless and ALIVE than to be dead. And furthermore, I interpret Finland's recent experiment as suggesting otherwise.

>In worst case, taxation of hard-working in order to provide money for the less hard-working ones may even mean that the hard workers can't afford children while the irresponsible ones can.
Then the wrong people are being taxed heavily. It's a conservative policy to drastically reduce taxes on the rich.

>Universal voting rights: do you believe the average person is smart enough to vote responsibly?
Well now you're just being an edgy devil's advocate.

If you think people are too dumb for their own good, then we should invest more in education... which is a progressive policy opposed by conservatives. Tearing down public education is literally the Secretary of Education's job at the moment.

Marriage wouldn't even be an issue if it wasn't such a fucking insanely good tax break + benefits. Most gays don't even give a shit about religion, they just need the benefits that the government put with them. Like being able to visit your spouse in the hospital and not getting screwed out of inheritance.

The main issue with African-Americans in the modern era is a division from normal American culture, and an environment that crabs-in-a-buckets anyone who attempts to escape, as well as the unfortunate reality that they fell into the lower classes that were already hard to escape due to economic deflation following the golden age that was the 50s and 60s. The best chance to uplift the black community is prominent figures making it clear that it's okay to try and escape the hood, as well as a general economic revitalization of America's underclass as a whole. While targeted help would indeed lift more African-Americans out of poverty, it would absolutely breed IMMENSE resentment among the white, rural underclass who are similarly looked down upon and stuck, and we'd need to have a discussion on whether it's moral to give African-Americans preference over everyone else when it comes to who we help.

> a proud asshole leading his men to certain death for almost no reason.
> almost no reason

did you somehow miss the demand for tribute and the ensuing invasion? what exactly did you think leonidas' choices were, if not to attempt to mount a defense and secure his land?

god damn, i got baited didn't i? see, now this is good bait. it's so completely unreasonable that it demands a response.

I remember reading an interesting article that said that America's parties used to more nuanced in the early-mid 20th century, because the Ds and the Rs had to attract votes from all different types of Ds and Rs from all over the country, so neather couldn't be ideological a niche party in like in Europe, but over time that shifted to mostly all or nothing questions, so they became more ideological, while in European countries there were more then two parties that have a chances to win a seat, so the parties had to be more compromising.

Education doesn't actually make you smarter by and large. Most of education isn't about improving your critical thinking skills and general reasoning, but rather ensuring that you will be a productive and compliant member of the general workforce and fill your predetermined social role. The education system only exists to perpetuate systemic inequality in America. To that extent I entirely support DeVos's slow destruction of public education, because her culture-warring is inadvertently demolishing a backbone of America's toxic work-obsessed culture.

For me, it was "fascist". As soon as someone uses that word to refer to anything in the modern world, I know immediately that they are retarded.

So a white man who doesn't like gay marriage doesn't deserve to have his voice heard because of your moral values that, in a hundred years, could be considered outdated?

He is a human being who shares citizenship in your country. You owe it to him to have a say in how his government is run, even if you don't agree. Looking down on and mocking him only breeds divisiveness.

ProtoAmerica did try to convene under abolishing racism, by the way, but it was nigh impossible to throw together in the first place. Slavery was an issue that the parties against it had to drop in order to get ALL areas to agree to be one nation under one ruling body. To make a nation means all joining that nation are giving up some measure of self governance. If they don't like the new rules, they can simply decide to remain independent. At this point you don't HAVE authority to make them follow any rules. They don't exist yet.

Circumstances at the time absolutely required every part of the colonies become a single power. There was no other choice.

Beyond that, abolishing slavery isn't so simple if you let an area become economically dependent on it. Suddenly removing slavery just turns the area in to a shithole even the former slaves don't want to fucking live in. Which is literally what happened to the south after the Civil War. Make no mistake, that was entirely on purpose. To economically wreck the south as a power move against it. The north was FILTHY with slave owners just as pissed off. Don't believe the myth that the north didn't have just as many. The problem here is simply the North now had the newly invented machinery to put in the place of slaves to mitigate things. Technology the north outright refused to share with the south even before the war happened. Which.. is literally one of the major reasons it did fucking happen. North was swimming in this new tech and none of it was sent south out of simple disdain.

Let me repeat that. The south WANTED to become independent from it's dependence on slavery of it's own choice but was denied it out of spite. Meanwhile the north kept having slaves AND tech till Lincoln abolished one of the two. Why be good people when you can double dip?

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No Fly Zone BAD!
Obamacare GOOD!

>Facism only exists in the past!
You're astonishingly stupid.

>Tearing down public education is literally the Secretary of Education's job at the moment.
Good, the public education system has been terrible for decades.

Like I said, you're approaching this as if I'm arguing the morality of his argument, when I absolutely am not. I'm arguing that there are many cases in this country where people disregard the views and beliefs of others and only cause immense resentment because of it, when while we may disagree, we should at least respect others enough to let them speak.

What don't you agree with, there?

He deserves to be heard. There are consequences for being heard. If he wants to oppress gays, then his friends have a right to unfriend him and his social messaging network has a right to unlist him.

Or do you want to take away the rights of his friends, so they're not allowed to decide who they want to be friends with? Do you want to take away the rights of the social messaging network, so they're not permitted to decide their own userbase? Why are you against these rights?

Not terrible enough to destroy without a viable replacement, why do you insist on talking like someone incapable of thinking things through for more than five seconds in the future?

>Conservatives refuse to temper the progressives in favor of all out rejection and, not getting anything, the progressives and getting more rabid.

Because what typically happens is progressives push some dumbfuck law, most of it gets rejected, some of it is passed. Then they try to pass that same shit again and a bit more of it gets through and so on and so forth until they have what they want.

The only viable answer to such a strategy is to utterly refuse any compromise just like the progressives are effectively doing.

See . I'm not taking away his ability to speak. He won't go to prison for his speech, he'll just be banned from [social media network].

But you're taking away [social media network]'s right to free expression if you take away [social media network]'s ability to ban him.

The two party system absolutely entrenches and fosters division and is increasingly making it impossible for governments to get anything done. But all the money goes to them, it's virtually impossible for anyone to be elected if they don't join either party. It's fucking stupid because it leads to people with radically different ideas belonging to the same party, but still voting along party lines in favour of things they don't even agree with because the political machine has them by the balls and they hate the other party more.

I don't know how the fuck you solve it. Most Yuro countries have at least three major parties with seats in government (usually left, right and centre parties but also far left, far right and ecological parties in some countries) so at least people have more choice and politicians have to learn to compromise.

Also keep in mind that most abolitionists were bourgeois beneficiaries of the equally exploitative industrial system- they were so appalled by slavery that they condemned 800k working-class Americans and impoverished immigrants to horrific deaths to stop it. But at least they felt very good about themselves in the end!

I don't want a replacement for the public school system. Hell, I'm not even a fan of private schools.

>The ENTIRE POINT of reparations is to shove a big, fat middle finger up the ass of the people who don't accept black equality.

You aren't making a very good argument for black equality mate.

I just felt like venting about the education system.

You're being incredibly childish, attempting to place an argument in my mouth that I was not making. When have I been as presumptive or mean as you're being right now? When have I been on anything but the backfoot, attempting to get you to acknowledge basic points I was trying to make, so as to lay a groundwork for a discussion?

I agree with your first point, actually. Freedom of speech is not freedom from consequences. Yet for some reason, rather than listen to your own advice and ask, then listen, you made assumptions about my beliefs and tried to shame me for the person you thought I was.

I thought this was going somewhere well, actually. Now I'm just disappointed.

It sounds like you're just being edgy for the sake of being edgy, advocating non-solutions which make things worse because the status quo isn't "good enough" for you. You could try to make things better, but that would involve progressivism, which is just too distasteful...

>the progressive party is going off the rails.
The progressive party has finally gotten mobilized and motivated. I'm not sure how you decided they're going crazy when they won the House by the largest margin for Democrats since Nixon. Both sides are not the same.

You seem to be entirely confused by the current situation if you think that's what's happening.

>You're being incredibly childish, attempting to place an argument in my mouth that I was not making.
Look in the mirror. You're accusing us of wanting to take away his right to be heard. When did we do that?

>bourgeois beneficiaries of the exploitative industrial system
Evening, Marx. Care to explain how a bunch of theologians are exploiters of labor?

>Both sides are not the same.
We're almost at bump limit. Can I post this without getting banned?

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Waco is another contested event, Sea Org still exists, the bombing of move was denounced (though I hardly call west Philadelphia "wilderness") and what about Varg?

If you don't believe me, move to some remote part of Siberia or northern Canada. Don't make any contact with the outside world, and no one will even know you're there.

Read back through the replies, user. This discussion started from someone saying that they didn't care, and that simply due to the beliefs of someone, they wouldn't listen.

>One side supports some good ideas and some stupid ideas.
>Other side supports some different good ideas and some different stupid ideas.

Progressivism has no solutions to any of the problems I have with society. Indeed, progressivism is partially responsible for the majority of those problems.

My goal is the complete liberation of man- the abolition of the state, the abolition of labor, the abolition of every single spooked entity that suppresses or otherwise impedes the expression of the individual will. You continue to pretend that things can magically be fixed by tweaking bits and pieces of the state and society and whatnot as if these aren't the very agents of all of our problems. The state will not end our moral fetishism of labor, it will never abolish prisons or schools, it will never allow us a truly free and open society. There will always be caveats and nagging little catches to every single mercy granted to us, with the expectation of gratitude and continued submission.

Progressivism is nonsense, anarchism is the answer.

Yes, and? Are you going to take away their right to not listen?

Do you have an example of this occurring?

Do you know just how bad turn of the century was for workers? I know he used the OH NO BAD BAD COMMIE WORDS, but he's entirely right. There's entire books devoted to just how inhumane conditions were for workers before the government started mandating simple shit like work breaks, hand rails, and outlawing making your workers in to debt slaves pay your workers in 'company store credits" and mandate they live in the company housing too. don't pay them enough to actually buy either but automatically deduct from their account. they are now obligated to work for you forever.

You realize Soilent Green is a real thing? People would fall in food vats, for lack of a simple 5 cent guard rail, and the prepared food FULL OF PEOPLE would be sent out FULLY KNOWING someone fell the fuck in it.

This isn't even scratching the surface. The shit going on in that era is the product of pure psychopaths. Literally no empathy or understanding that other people are real and exist.

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>The ENTIRE POINT of reparations is to shove a big, fat middle finger up the ass of the people who don't accept black equality.
If that's really the mindset behind it, it's just going to end up with me actually hating black people.

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>anarchism is the answer.
Ah, you're 12. That explains a lot

Denunciation doesn't bring back the dead. Denunciation means nothing, words are inherently meaningless and carry no real weight or power. Your obsession with words as if they have any sort of intrinsic value shows your complete ignorance on this sort of topic.

If you think that the average person is smart enough to handle voting, does that mean you were okay with the Trump presidency or Brexit? Would you be okay with any kind of election result at all, regardless of who wins or what are the consequences?

The stuff you said about how you'd prefer to have helpless people who rely on their government handouts sounds mildly disturbing to me. It could work well as a line for a movie villain from a dystopian society that tries to keep its people docile and passive by bribing them, so that they won't ever bother to aim for financial independence or freedom.

and given half the chance the companies would go right back to those standards

Parts of them are going crazy. It's good that they've decided to start fighting using the same methods as republicans from a game theory stand point, but some of their actual proposals are fucking retarded and there doesn't currently exist a voice in government that can temper them back down to something reasonable.

For instance, moving away from fossil fuels? Good for a number of reasons. But ask them about nuclear energy, and suddenly they'll be against it.

That list is several years old, but I have yet to see a counterpart listing good ideas that Republicans were in favor of and Democrats were against, or stupid ideas Republicans were against and Democrats were in favor of. You should feel free to supply one, if you can.

Just admit you haven't read a single book beyond Harry Potter and call it a day lol

when has conservativism ever helped anyone

No one can control what happens inside the heads of others, but it's foolish to dismiss people simply because they disagree, or you find their beliefs distasteful. You should be able to provide moral arguments against those who disagree with you, as the meeting of conflicting ideas is how real compromise and understanding is born, unlike the current system where the minority's opinion is simply discarded.

>If you think that the average person is smart enough to handle voting, does that mean you were okay with the Trump presidency

this implies most people voted when it's a minority of the population

>stupid ideas Republicans were against and Democrats were in favor of

what is literally every single gun control bill of the past 20 years

not him, what logos was in here other than the immitation of it? It was just bold assertions from various leaps in logic to the point where following it is difficult, filled with charicatures of evil badmen.

What's your opinion of China's social scoring system?

Brave New World

>the Trump presidency or Brexit
I wonder how the results of those votes would have differed if the Trump and Brexit campaigns hadn't violated the law so much. Perhaps people can be trusted in general, but they can't be trusted when Conservatives break the law in pursuit of their goals. In short, Conservatives can't be trusted.

People think government regulations are just busybody nonsense and they are fucking not. They literally would. In moments. They'd probably rip out the guard rails and sell them for scrap the moment such a thing was no longer required. Or just out of spite.

THEY LITERALLY SOLD FOOD FULL OF PEOPLE.

Hey you know how your food is legally not supposed to have rat poison in it, feces, and literal human bodies? Yeah that and more was in food before regulations.

And adjusted for modern inflation, the robber barons of the era were orders of magnitude more wealthy than the richest person in America right now. You wanna wonder why that exploitation of the working class shit still circulates a very strongly caplitalist society like America? It starts there. Literal theft of all wealth because being a blatant psychopath hadn't been outlawed yet.

Even the faintest idea of it coming back scares the ever living shit out of me. I've read in depth in to the kind of shit that happened. Never trust a faceless business entity. Don't trust small businesses either. They aren't people. They are a sheaf of paper.

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And has anything like the MOVE bombing happened since?

Good thoughts, good words, good deeds. Words do have value, or else we would not look so far down on hypocrites. Good actions are necessary of course, but we communicate our intent and beliefs via words.

You forgot to mention the company store. Which is how some companies in other nations still pay their employees with scrip.

>Trumps election and Brexit broke the law
and people in this thread said most humans are capable of agreeing on what is real.

Be the change you wish to see in the world user. Kill yourself on a livestream to give the rest of humanity the courage to follow your example.

I don't know, maybe gun control isn't a bad thing after all. It must be good for America somehow since America's enemies are against it.

Doesn't the NRA have a literal traitor as its president? Isn't it a vehicle used to funnel Russian money into the pockets of Republican lawmakers?

google.com/search?q=Brexit Campaign Violations

Where have you been?

I mentioned that in a previous post. Yes.

You make workers move in to a town built by the company. You get paid for your work in company credits only useful for that company. They also have company goods stores so you never need to leave said company run town. They pay you less than your rent + food costs, but will gladly let you keep running up debt and buy what you want. You suddenly want to leave? Oh wait partner, you have debt to pay off. You know if you're going to run without paying you may find a gun against your head....

>had a pro gun friend send me a video about how nothing utterly catastrophic happened during the recent government shutdowns and this is unassailable proof that libertarianism works

imagine trusting corporations to do the right thing even 1% of the time unless they're forced

What a bunch of fucking malarkey. White Supremacists exist for the same reason that Black Supremacists exist, same reason Mexican Supremacists exist. They're authoritarians who want power to do wrong without consequence. For some reason its only the White ones that get press time or people worrying about them but they all fucking exist.This bullshit feigned ignorance of the other kinds of Supremacist is exactly what got Trump elected in the first place and doubling down on it is going to get him reelected. This sucks.

Well, I'm genuinely curious. Do you have sources to these claims?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_North#Iran–Contra_affair

ollie north stuff is pretty easy to find.

>I don't want a replacement for the public school system. Hell, I'm not even a fan of private schools.
So you don't support public or private school systems. What DO you support?

Not to mention work conditions...
Shit was seriously fucked up. Shit was legalized slavery.

The government shutdown is a mislabeling. The government still runs just fine. There's only parts of it that aren't working and aren't giving people paychecks temporarily. Most of the government is STILL OPERATIONAL.

And most of the government in America is entirely stateside. States enforce the laws where they live. Not the US Government. Police forces and many other bodies are paid out by the state or even city. And those bodies are obligated to enforce country wide laws anyway.

US government shutting down, even for a couple months, means precious little.

For non Americans, states also have the legal right to tax you. They can keep getting money to run things regardless of shutdowns. This tax can be deducted from national taxes in a lot of cases, and how much a state is taking from it's people can change how much funding they get from the government. So a state can't double dip and rob people blind.

>And adjusted for modern inflation, the robber barons of the era were orders of magnitude more wealthy than the richest person in America right now. You wanna wonder why that exploitation of the working class shit still circulates a very strongly caplitalist society like America? It starts there. Literal theft of all wealth because being a blatant psychopath hadn't been outlawed yet.
This is the biggest thing, psychopaths can be identified now. They should have to register like Sex Offenders, they're just as dangerous and unpleasant in every way.

I'm really afraid of Amazon bringing that back. You know full well that we are really close to people being able to live exclusively off of things sold by Amazon. It's only a matter of time before someone agrees to live in Amazon housing and eat only Amazon food that they pay for with Amazon bucks.

Yeah, it happened again at Ruby Ridge and again at Waco. It kept happening right up until Timothy McVeigh did what he did, and THEN the government stopped being so forceful with militias.

Here's the reality of life. Say I want to kick you in the balls. You can argue until you're blue in the face why kicking you in the balls is a bad idea and I shouldn't do it, but I don't have to listen to your words. There is no force behind them, so I can kick you in the balls as many times as I want, no matter how hard you complain. Hell, that might actually be *why* I like kicking you in the balls.

But say I want to kick you in the balls but you have a gun and say "If you kick me in the balls, I'll shoot you in the face." Or better yet, someone else kicks you in the balls and I see that you shoot him in the face. Now I have an incredibly good reason not to kick you in the balls, because your use of force has actually provided a meaningful threat to me.

>MUH RUSSIA

No Russian has ever threatened to kick down my doors because I share files on the internet. Russia might be your boogeyman, but I have no reason to see Russia as my personal enemy.

Imagine trusting government to do the right thing even 1% of the time unless they're forced lmao

Self-led education, by and large. Children should be able to pursue a holistic educational pathway that suits their personal dreams and aspirations. Something similar to classical society's educational system, maybe? I don't know too much about what I want other than it should ideally be the exact opposite of what modern education is today.

I'm not so sure that trump is a literal conscious flag-waving white supremacist behind closed doors, but I'm basically certain at this point that he's a racist, what with how he's gone out on more than one occasion and attempted to dehumanize the illegals we actually send back as "animals" (which isn't really an okay thing to do as the president even if they are absolute murdering pieces of shit,) say it's okay to be a nationalist, "shithole countries," his bizarrely heartless treatment of post-hurricane puerto rico, former associates asserting that he would use nigger and the like pretty liberally in private, that one time where he tried to claim a judge that was going to make a ruling on his wall was biased because he was of latin american descent when he was born in fucking Indiana, all that shit.

On top of this, IIRC most of the terror attacks pulled on US soil in recent years have been white supremacists. Not to say that there isn't some sensationalism blowing up the issue as well, but I think there's reason for it.

You literally cannot pay people in 'company credits'. You have to pay them in legal tender usable anywhere. HAVE TO. It's illegal even to agree to be paid that way. You can be the name behind everything they buy, but it's impossible to trap them in the way being described. Not anymore.

COMICS AND CARTOONS

youtube.com/watch?v=lFV1uT-ihDo

>I don't know, maybe gun control isn't a bad thing after all. It must be good for America somehow since America's enemies are against it.

Spotty logic user. I mean, the thing about ollie north being a traitor are true. But the connection between what's good or bad for America is tenuous at best.
Reiterated for clarity: Ollie North is indeed a traitor and so was Reagan. And he absolutely should not be the president of the NRA.

And honestly, I could criticize the NRA too; but probably for reasons you'd likely disagree with.

>tfw we live in the hell timeline where Cody Wilson is getting railroaded by the feds rather than being put in charge of the NRA

Just think of what an absolute mad lad like him could do with NRA resources, it would be absolutely beautiful

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2 things I've learned from this thread
Being a bootlicker conformist isn't "counter-culture" and Punisher's fanbase is a bunch of military roleplayers who've never seen combat or seen too much of it.

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>Well I'm not ____ buuuuuuuut
Literally everything you posted is a lie.

>just tear down the existing system, even though I have no plan whatsoever on how to replace it
Yikes.

What?

>the illegals we actually send back as "animals"
Wasn't the "animals" statement directed towards MS-13?

It was directed towards everyone we sent back as a sort of defense for doing so. We're only sending back the bad people, etc.

It wouldn't be okay even if it were MS-13, IMO. You don't dehumanize people period, especially if you're the sitting fucking president.

People saying shit is true does not make it true. Point out literally which laws have dehumanized illegals and are not just asking them to come in to the country by the already available legal means. What do you think he actually was responsible for in Puerto Rico which isn't the fault of other parties? Prove he called anyone a nigger and isn't just slander by his opponents.

God it's like reading a laundry list of rumors and slander that circulate everywhere liberal.

Literally yes.

No, it was directed specifically at MS-13. Which have done the kind of shit that can get you a death penalty in any state that allows it.

Sounds like a simplistic breakdown.
Skullfags aren't really explicitly even Punisher fans and the consensus seems to be more actual military men who go overboard with that shit are just overcompensating assholes not that they actually saw a lot of action.

Homeschooled kids tend to have far worse prospects than even public schooled kids. Not all the time, but a lot.

Using your ball kicking analogy, if you tell me you're going to kick me in the balls, but then you don't, the next time I'm going to believe you less. If I see you saying to someone else you'll kick them in the balls, I'll tell them you didn't do it last time. If you keep claiming things without backing them up, you'll lose "credit" for lack of a better term, with other people.

Now take that and put yourself in a situation where you don't have the initiative and instead need something, such as during a trade or contract. A lot of economic activity is built more or less on social credit, as is personal relationships. You gain credit by having your actions align with your statements, and you lose it by having your actions unaligned with your statements.

The mistake is that people treat their words and their actions as if they are separate things entirely.

A lot of the people suing the Punisher logo probably don't even know where it's from, they just think it looks cool.

>the already available legal means
Requesting asylum is a legal means.

We don't have to approve the request, but they're not breaking the law when they make the request and they shouldn't be treated like criminals for it. Obama somehow had a high success rate of processing asylum claims without putting children in cages.

>You aren't making a very good argument for black equality mate.
I wasn't attempting to because it's already self-evident broheme.

Nevermind, I just looked it up on Snopes, and I was correct. I do admit that the "animals" remark can be seen as harsh, but this is the MS-13 what's being refereed to, and they are especially bad people.

>Requesting asylum is a legal means.
And it is not legally required to grant it. Least of all grant it without question or investigation.

>Muh children in cages

It literally happened under Obama. That is literally how the investigation process works. LITERALLY ALWAYS HAS. The news simply deigned not to be hysterical about it. Legally, you cannot keep children and adults in the same facility when they are being detained by the government. This is not a new rule, and it exists so children are not jailed along with felons. As in actual felons. The kids are all put in one facility together and the adults kept in another.

A facility the parents had to agree to go in to as part of the asylum process regardless if it takes 5 minutes, 5 hours, or 5 eternities.

>And it is not legally required to grant it. Least of all grant it without question or investigation.
Are you even actually reading my posts before you respond to them, or do you just start typing on instinct alone?

I just said that we don't have to approve the request.

>Suddenly removing slavery just turns the area in to a shithole even the former slaves don't want to fucking live in. Which is literally what happened to the south after the Civil War.
Reconstruction has startling parallels with Obamacare in that it was a progressive scheme hobbled by its attempts to placate possible conservative opposition to it, that was then hobbled further by outright conservative opposition to it (because in the end the conservatives had no interest in seeing it succeed). Obamacare would have succeeded if they'd just said, "Fuck it," and nationalized the healthcare system, just as reconstruction would have succeeded if they'd just said, "Fuck it," and distributed elite and Confederate land and wealth to poor whites and blacks and, like, prohibited reconstitution of plantations.

>So in other words, it will never ever happen, exactly like I said it wouldn't.
The only reason they won't happen is because the country implodes in some fashion.

I don't think he's a richard spencer, I just think he's an old rich boomer who believes the same shit a lot of old rich boomers do.

I'm not really talking about his policy, I'm talking about his rhetoric. Have we seriously already forgotten how in October, before the November elections, he tried to play up this migrant convoy as being an incoming harbinger of doom, like these fucking random angry, desperate poor people were going to breach border patrol and start raping and pillaging? It's never just been about MS-13 and gang members for him, he just wants to paint as many illegal immigrants with the violent criminal brush as he can get away with because he knows his base will eat it up. Even my senile, sedentary grandmother greeted me once with "oh, have you heard about that convoy?" /k/ was talking about how they were going to go down there like it was a foreign invasion. It worked flawlessly.

I will say on the animals remark, the remark itself was vague as shit because trump has a special way of talking, but it was during a conference about MS-13, so you can derive context from that.

You can probably find footage of trump saying it's okay to be a nationalist no problem, it was at one of his rallies. Shithole countries was IIRC a leak from a private meeting. Puerto Rico I'm willing to blame Trump because PR are our literal responsibility, they're our territory. 3,000 people died, people are still dying, Trump deciding that they don't deserve support anymore even if they've been difficult is just as outrageous and abhorrent as Obama deciding Alabama doesn't deserve treatment anymore for saying mean words to him (which, coincidentally, Trump said around the same time that Alabama would get the "A+ treatment" after it suffered a smaller national disaster, which isn't weird, or anything.
cont.

IIRC, there's been an trend towards people crossing with children that they aren't related to in hopes for softer treatment by BP, and children being moved around without approval of one or both guardians.
I think it was the girl that died of septic shock the one who was brought over by her father without the permission of her mother.

>I work at a public library in a pretty diverse community
I see that you're an authority, then.
>They really don't, though.
They really do. The cultural differences are set dressing for values that are largely the same, even if distorted somewhat by differing economic and cultural circumstances. If we weren't the same, the drug epidemic and the movie Gordon Gekko was in wouldn't have existed in the same decade.

B-but user!

Protecting the children is inhumane and removes the rights of migrants! They should be allowed to kidnap helpless children and kill them all they like! It's their human right!

you mean something like master-apprentice relationships?

Under normal circumstances, I'd say he's right in that dehumanizing people is almost always bad.

Under normal circumstances. MS-13 are not normal circumstances.

Blacks should return to Africa and leave Europe and America. No right to access to whites.

as for the judge, that's probably the most publicly visible and jarring thing. Judge Gonzalo Curiel, Trump was pissed that he was presiding over a few cases in Federal Court involving him in part because he was "Mexican" despite being born in Indiana. It was a very weird, public feud. I don't know how that didn't disqualify him from being elected.

He is Mexican by blood and loyalty, he was just born in Indiana.

Ha ha, thankfully this post was made facetiously, ha ha.

So are you english by blood and loyalty? german?

I was under the impression that Reconstruction failed because Lincoln was assassinated and his VP actually hated the entire idea and basically spent his entire term either half-assing the execution or straight up doing the exact opposite of what the original plan was.

I wonder what Yoshi's eggs and feet smell like

You mean the caravan that refused asylum in all the countries on their way to the US?

no it's Trump's fault

A lot like the Middle Eastern and African "refugees" in Europe, you are free to move through as many safe and inviting countries as you like to get to whatever country is going to give you the most money.

That's not really the point. The caravan's motives, goals, and violence aren't really in play here.

The issue was Trump playing up a caravan of a lot of impoverished homeless families as some kind of existential threat to families at the border. He didn't treat it as some kind of delicate humanitarian crisis, he deliberately played it up as an alien threat to terrify his base into mobilizing for the November elections.

You probably don't see a problem with that. You do you.

It's funny to see Republicans complain about Middle Eastern refugees after Republicans are the ones who destabilized the Middle East.

Oh, and the situation is only going to get worse thanks to climate change, another aspect of life brought to us by conservative policies.

>dude it's a hoax it's not going to be that bad lmao
>weather is already getting fucking weird
>exxon and shell alike are looking into and advertising based on alternative energy sources

We could drop co2 emissions to zero in europe and america and climate change would not stop.

Some of the people in that caravan did in fact seek asylum in Mexico. Some, who were no doubt simply economic migrants, continued on to the US. But one shouldn't discount those whose asylum claims have validity to them immediately. If one feared for their life in say Honduras due to the cartels, then Mexico would hardly be safe. The point of asylum isn't the nearest country, it's the nearest country that can provide safety.

>DUDE there's no perfect solution so we shouldn't do anything at all LMAO
It wouldn't stop climate change, but it would help make it not as bad as it's going to be.

>Muh Rethuglikkkans!!
lol get fucked partisan cuck that's a 5th grader's understanding of anything. Useful idiot. Vote for the other party and see drones continue bombing.

>dude it's china and the third world's fault why even try lol why even make the effort why make the world better anyway lmao

You'd think the immigration alarmists that repost every solitary article about an immigrant performing an abhorrent crime would be terrified about what climate change is going to bring. Then again, such a massive refugee crisis is going to bring a hardline fascist to power no question, so maybe they want it.

>climate change, another aspect of life brought to us by conservative policies.
Why did climate change science have to be a conservative and liberal issue? At what point was Svante Arrhenius' discoveries contentious?

really? Bush was responsible for Syria and Libya?

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Yikes. Your post reminds me of that time when Rudy Giuliani claimed that Islamic terror attacks began under Obama, and that there were none under Bush.

Intervening in libya grew to be the popular thing to do as time went on, too. Gaddafi was butchering his people in droves, the rebels were begging us for help, and we had the option of intervening or literally just watching a dictator slaughter thousands.

What are you even supposed to do with that? A Trekkiefag friend of mine has started to adopt this isolationist prime directive mindset of 'lmao don't interfere in everything you'll only make it worse every single time just let them die don't play god' which to me just borders on sociopathic, but what can you do?

>don't live in the first world
>shitpost for and against in political threads
small joys of life

>but what can you do?
Make him watch DS9 until he grows out of his Roddenberry==Goddenberry phase.

Why acknowledge the complexity of the situation when I can blame the other party for it like a good imbecile?

Libya is worse than ever. Terror and slavery abound. We didn't fix shit. Stick to your own territory and stop fucking up the whole world for your moral crusade.

DS9 is his favorite

yeah, but that obviously wasn't the fucking intent. It was damned if you do, damned if you don't. Like it or not, inaction is still action, and not getting involved in the systematic slaughter of innocents out of fear of somehow making it worse due to the sheer complexity of the situation doesn't somehow absolve you of responsibility. You're complicit. You have to accept that you let that happen.

Then blow up his shuttle.

>mfw I'm guiltless while user is high on his own farts
Go beat off to your next worse-than-pointless middle eastern war. It'll work eventually!

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>we had the option of intervening or literally just watching a dictator slaughter thousands
>What are you even supposed to do with that?
Watch a dictator slaughter thousands. Not our job to run other countries and foreigners intervening always makes the local population hate them. Thousands died and continue to die anyway.

i mean, we personally are close to guiltless because we have no power, but if you have the world's largest military and can win almost any conflict you choose by sheer force and some fucker in north africa is butchering everyone that sort of raises the question of "wow if i don't do anything about this it's kind of my fault that it continues to happen, huh"

Maybe the answer to that age old question of why god allows evil to happen is that shit kept getting fucked up anyway and everyone blamed him for it

Road to hell is paved with good intentions.
Intent has no value here.

Still, you either
>let an atrocitiy continue to happen (and it's your fault)
or
>attempt to stop an atrocity, probably destabilize the region worse with your action, and it's your fault

Its almost like military intervention is not a good way to achieve geopolitical stability.

You could sell everything you own and feed starving people. Since you don't, you're responsible for their deaths

To an extent, unironically yes. We're all complicit to varying degrees in something, it'd just drive you mad if you seriously looked at the world that way.

>Still, you either
>>let an atrocitiy continue to happen (and it's your fault)
>or
>>attempt to stop an atrocity, probably destabilize the region worse with your action, and it's your fault
Wrong. Failure to stop an atrocity is not a moral failing. Such things must be considered and weighed against the consequences. In any case the US has never stepped into a situation to prevent atrocity, its always business and money related, so for the most part the rest of the world really wishes we'd keep ourselves out of it. If we wanted to do good in the world we'd start with mexico as they've been a boil on our ass for a long time. We don't because they let our corporations and rich people run amok without repercussion.

Think of it this way, it's like the trolley problem but there are ten guys on each line, it's going to kill five of either before stopping and then the remaining guys will fight it out.

If you pull the lever, the five guys left on the line you sacrificed are going to want to kill YOU as well as the ten guys on the other line. Intervention in other countries' internal conflicts is fucking stupid and the only reason we do it is for corporate greed.

Voltaire once said we are all guilty of the good we don't do.

Not sure how much I agree with that sentiment, but it seems relevant here.

>We don't because they let
"Let" implies they can do otherwise

well, lets define "good" in an objective manner, can't be difficult, can it?

>well, lets define "good" in an objective manner, can't be difficult, can it?
Oh yeah, real easy.

I firmly believe that not having a replacement at all is still better than the current system.

Literally nothing you've said can stop me from kicking you in the balls.

So what? You're acting like the need to be able to back up your words is some revolutionary concept.

he's some proto-darwinist that believes that force is everything even when it isn't.

You're missing the point- the ability to apply force as necessary is the root of all power. All true power lies in the ability to use force against obstacles, anything else is an illusion, or better yet, a spook. And so much of politics is chasing around these spooks under the assumption that any of it *means* anything when in fact it does not: at the end of the day you still have very little or effectively no means of exerting your own will. You are kept in line through abstract, intangible concepts that mean nothing. This is the reality of how oppression functions. Anything less is inconsequential.

>spook
You could have just posted a Stirner image to start with, and everyone would have known to ignore you from the beginning.

lmao okay shitlib

Pretty smug, for someone parroting baby's first philosophy.

Sounds like projection, maybe you've got a Rand phase that you're trying to hide?