"OMG Tony, just get over Bucky brutally murdering your parents and ruining your life! He's my friend!"

If a Nazi had his brain regularly electrocuted and chemically altered until he didn't even remember his own name I'd probably let him off the hook for most things he did in that state.

Wasn’t it the Soviets that did that?

It's not the Nuremberg defense when he's kidnapped against his will and brainwashed in to taking these actions.

>brainwashed

what does that word even mean anymore

Drugged to shit for decades?

Grey-matter cleaning services.

>The process of pressurizing someone into adopting radically different beliefs by using systematic and often forcible means.

I mean I dunno about you but that's pretty much what happened to Buckey.

No it's fine, Tony had a panic attack and he realizes he was wrong.
That's why he doesn't blame Quill at all for having the exact same panic attack.

remember
youre here forever
:^)

>meanwhile zemo gets away, completely forgotten by everyone despite being the main antagonist and the reason they went there in the first place
>zemo "loses" because bp stops him from killing himself

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>completely forgotten by everyone despite being the main antagonist and the reason they went there
they mostly went there to stop the super duper soldiers

>hey Tony, this guy brainwashed him. Should we go after the guy who had your parents killed?
>irontisic screeching
Fuck iron nigger

>Grey-matter cleaning services
You I like

>Steve literally says he's with bucky until the end of the line
>DURR WHY IS HE DEFENDING HIM

watch the movie

less nuremberg, more sleepwalker
which is an actual legal defense mind you

>Zemo singehandedly caused the schism between the Avengers
>the schism was one of the prime reasons the Avengers lost against Thanos
>Zemo indirectly caused the victory of Thanos and caused half the universe to be wiped out
A real Galvrilo Princip of his time.

This is why cap and tony teaming up again makes no sense, why would they get over their personal trauma...for what? thanos?

stupid

Because they still care about each other, Cap is a good guy and never wanted any of the shit to go down. Tony will probably never be totally alright with Bucky though even if he stops blaming him.

>why would they get over their personal trauma...for what? thanos?
Call me crazy, but I think the death of half of the universe is a pretty good reason to get over a grudge.

What if Cap is on his deathbed and his last action is putting Stark and Buckys hands together

>You can’t blame a gun for killing something. The gun was a tool used by the killer.
Yes, I can. Only idiots, shills, and potential mass shooters and terrorists believe the SA is correct and that having access to firearms is actually a human right. It's not. Firearms are weapons of mass destruction, and no civilian should have one. Only the police, military, private security, and maybe famous celebrities and the wealthy should have them. Fuck off with your so-called rights. No sane person believes you.

that guy clearly isn't fit for normal society, what's to say some new fucker happens to take over his mind again? you still have to lock him up.

My dude, what would unleashing 5 nerfed Caps do? Just ping Vision and he'll vaporize them in a second.

Tony (and Bruce) made Ultron after being mentally compromised by Wanda, should they be locked up too?

Mind control completely obliterates our current understanding of ethics and our emotional response to such events. Neither party is at fault.

Thunderbolts movie fucking WHEN

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What do you think the Accords were?

Hawkeye murdered dozens of SHIELD personnel after being compromised by Loki, should he be locked up too?

Him getting away with a slap on the wrist after being directly responsible for the deaths of thousands?

>My dude, what would unleashing 5 nerfed Caps do?

Howard successfully reproduced Erskine's formula, the prospect of 5 assassins with Steve's enhanced physical and mental capabilities meant that they'd destabilize the shit out of any country they managed to get into and fuck off back into the shadows.

Motherfucker why would you want the MCU to stomp all over the Thunderbolts like that?

So basically Bucky wouldn't be held accountable for any of the things he did while brainwashed since Clint, Tony, and Bruce, who were responsible for killing people under mental influence got away scot-free, cool, glad we settled that.

The difference between Bucky and the rest is that he can be brainwashed by a few words instead of literal actual magic.

Which means shit since Bucky had his trigger removed while he was living in Wakanda.

Brainwashed is brainwashed, regardless of what caused it you're still left with a person that doesn't even realize what they're doing, or realizes what they're doing but can't do a damn thing to stop it and therefore, cannot be held accountable for their actions.

Yeah, after all this shit happened, retard.

>We should never try to fix things if there's no one to hold accountable

Everyone who could be conceivably held accountable for Bucky's actions are either dead or in jail already.

>Yeah, after all this shit happened, retard.

What difference does it make? Clint, Tony, and Bruce should be locked up since they're responsible for killing people after they've been mentally compromised by magic and haven't shown that they can't be influenced again in the future. They're too dangerous to let loose and should be stuck in the Raft to be held accountable for their multiple murders.

Bucky has been fixed, the rest haven't, and they sure as shit haven't been made to pay for their crimes.

What does killing Bucky fix?

Locking him up until his brainwashing no longer poses a threat to the general public fixes the threat of a rogue supersoldier to the general public.
And even Steve agreed in the end when he shipped bucky off to Wakanda.

>Ghost was just introduced
They're building it up.

Why not?

And he was cured by Shuri, so what's the problem now?

I’m not saying people should have firearms. Most people can’t be trusted with them, just like most people can’t be trusted with a completely obedient super assassin. The metaphor still works.

Sure, but you lock him up while actually trying to help him. You don't beat him to death with your suit of armor.

MCU Ghost is not a straight up villain tho

So you agree that he had to be cured.

I really don't understand why people expected Steve to just sit back and allow Tony to murder one of his closest friends. The only thing he did wrong was waiting too late to tell Tony the truth about his parents and it came back to bite him in the ass at the worst possible time. The McFeelys confirmed they intentionally wrote it this way so they could place Tony in a high stress situation where he'd snap and if he'd been told prior he wouldn't have exploded as spectacularly as he did.

Steve also saved him from murdering a innocent person. It's been a point of Tony's character that he feels the grating need to prove his worth and make up for his sins as a weapons contractor with the innocent lives he's destroyed through it. Imagine what the fuck it'd do to him if he actually managed to kill Bucky and then cooled off after to realize what he's done.

I mean there's a pretty huge gap between being cured of mental conditioning and being held accountable for the crimes you committed while under the influence of said conditioning.

There is literally nothing wrong with superhero registration. Yes, thank you Avengers for saving us time and again, but that doesn't excuse all the collateral damage or you just fucking off instead of at least paying for the shit you broke.

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Isn’t that what damage control is for

>tfw Cap knew Bucky murdered the Starks since Winter Soldier
Cap is a bad friend

Yes, cured, not put in jail.

Yes it's a great idea to leave the deadliest people on the planet under the direct control and supervision of Norman 'Mad as a Hatter' Osborn and Thunderbolt 'Solve a mess by making an even bigger mess' Ross.

Nice derailing and moving the goalposts. You didn't actually address the points.

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B8 identified

They were never friends, Stark is retarded

>and ruining your life!
Was it ruined though? Tony was a damn bum before they died.

>famous celebrities and the wealthy
how are you guys replying to this obvious bait

The accords addresses literally none of that. Its just an excuse for power hungry politicians to put a leash on a force they otherwise don't control.

Bootlickers love the taste of shoe polish.

After that heartfelt conversation they had at the end of Age of Ultron? It kind of seemed like Cap thought of Tony as a friend.

Reminder that the real responsible of everything that happened in CW was actually Damage Control.

So yeah, shit's fucked bruh.

Whose running the program is fucking irrelevant because the Avengers aren't going to become a deathsquad just because Osborn or Ross is in charge. They're still superheroes.

It wasnt like that, the Bucky that killed Tony's parents wasnt Bucky it was a Russian terminator brainwashed and programmed by politicians to enact horrific war crimes. 'Bucky' killed Tony's parents, not Bucky.

But you're probably an idiot so you wouldn't understand that distinction.

>aren't going to become a deathsquad just because Osborn or Ross is in charge
They literally become a death squad under Osborn lol.

Hell, his life was great up until he went to the sandbox. He's doing fine during the flashback in IM3, and only time we see him talk about his parent's deaths is at the MIT speech. The death of his parents really had no effect on his character

Right nothing could possibly go wrong if we leave The Avengers under the direct jurisdiction of the guy who thought the only way to deal with gamma-irradiated monsters was to make intelligent gamma-irradiated monster and let them loose in Brooklyn.

He LITERALLY had no ability to refuse

Him and Tony were good ENOUGH friends, but Cap and Bucky were brothers-in-arms and actually friends from Cap's time. Of course Cap would choose to protect Bucky's secret, especially from a guy with a hair trigger anger problem regarding his parents.

Retard.

Wasn't the whole point of this movie to show you that both sides were wrong? Why are people still choosing a side?

>Wasn't the whole point of this movie to show you that both sides were wrong?
yes
>Why are people still choosing a side?
characterfag loyalty

More like
>OMG Tony, learn what fucking mind control is then laugh at the corpses of Hydra after how royally fucked they are by the end of S.H.I.E.L.D!

By that Metric, you could say that Howard Stark is the villain of the MCU.

>Howard Stark is a weapons manufacturer with shady morals and starts Stark Industries
>Raises Tony, who adopts his father's morals and has daddy issues because of his father's neglect
>Leaves his war industry to son who sells weapons of war with no accountability
>This leads to the deaths of Wanda's family with Stark's weapons
>Leaves behind a partner who feels overshadowed by Howard, because the industry went to the playboy son.
>This perfect storm of resentment and neglect leads to Tony, a psychological mess of a man, being forced into a war he's not mentally ready for, and the creation of "Iron Man", his attempt at being a hero
>This leads to him being on the Avengers, taking a nuke through a portal, getting PTSD, because he can't deal, and becoming obsessed with the threat from space.
>This combined with Wanda's revenge motivation creates another perfect shitstorm when she manipulates Stark to create Ultron, all causes of which ultimately stem back to Howard Stark.
>The war with Ultron kills Zemo's family, and he swears revenge on the Avengers.
>He tears the Avengers apart because of this

Much of this stems from the idea first put forward by Stark in Iron man that "peace means having a bigger stick than the other guy". It sounds right, but it keeps being proven wrong, and causing more problems in the long run. And Tony wouldn't have come up with that on his own, that's the kind of philosophy he got from his war profiteer father.

Because Tony's side makes more sense. Cap's whole argument is based on emotion, not the hard facts.

>Tony's side makes more sense
Yes it made complete sense to side with the plan which would've left The Avengers under the direct control of the guy who's response to learning that Thanos was preparing to invade earth was to do nothing.

Tony's whole argument is based on emotion. He feels guilt over his actions in Age of Ultron, and this is compounded when a grieving mother blames him for the death of her son. He comes back to the Avengers compound and puts that guilt on all of the Avengers, saying they need to be put in check, but what it really means is having someone else take the blame and the guilt, having the UN be the one giving the orders, meaning not that the Avengers are held accountable, but that they're only accountable for whether they followed orders.

MCU Ghost is fucking shit though

Of course. What part of Tony beating the shit out of him was going to cure Bucky?

>screaming mimi
DAMN

Songbird used to look like THAT?!!

So you're saying the Avengers can just tell the people in the charge to suck it whenever they like.
So what's the point in registration in the first place?

Thats the point

The thungderbolts are meant to be an anti-villain/anti-hero/villain mix. Get Zemo, Ghost, and maybe throw in Vulture, Songbird and Ant-Man, and you'll get the perfect Mix.

>I get a free pass because I was brainwashed.
Try that one out in front of a judge.

Not that user and not disagreeing that Tonys side was fueled by emotion but I think he had the right idea that the Avengers needed some form of oversight for the collateral they cause in their fights. Every day people's livelihoods are destroyed and lIves taken while the Avengers leader wears the American flag on his body and they all just go back to their comfy, intact homes without looking back at the mess they caused. I can see why the people from 117 foreign nations would have the amount of issues they do with that.

I can too, but this comes back to the idea of the people who are on the front lines having a different perception of things than the people who just see the carnage from the outside, after the fact. The Sokovia accords were a flawed and reactive document in the way they were presented, and needed input from the actual superheroes before anyone signed them. The idea that they need to have approval from a UN panel before every mission doesn't allow for the kind of time-sensitive threats the Avengers are usually up against, so Cap had some reasonable issues with the document as it was.
I think on the pro-reg side, Vision was the clear headed one who said that the idea of oversight can't be dismissed out of hand, and that's something you can work with, whereas Tony's idea that "Whatever form that takes" to put them in check it's worth it, and Black Widow's fear that they need to kind of lay low and win the public's trust back by just uncritically signing it, because they made public mistakes were both really wrongheaded. Their number one duty is to save the world, and fight the battles humanity otherwise couldn't, and signing a document that hinders that in order to prevent lack of accountability or preserve the team is not more important than that duty. Keeping the team together IS important to that goal, but only if they could come to a better agreement with the UN than the one handed to them, otherwise they would have all been better off refusing to sign.

>The thungderbolts are meant to be an anti-villain/anti-hero/villain mix.
Maybe in the later iterations (Especially Ellis and Parker's runs), but the first group is a squad of B-Lists Villains finding out how much better being a Hero is.

It's basically an insanity plea. He wasn't in control of his actions, thus cannot be held accountable for them.

Look where you are.
Please take a good look at the adress bar and read the website you are currently on.

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Nigga it's a comic, brainwashing isn't real.
realclearscience.com/articles/2018/07/19/theres_no_such_thing_as_brainwashing.html

He doesn't expect him to.

Cap's flaw is that he is out of touch, and he knows it. He can't abide the wrong, even if it's actually the safer path with better outcomes for everyone. He knows Bucky would be acquitted. He knows it's dumb to send him on the run and fight the man, and that telling Tony he can't have even the process is a fucking dickass move. He knows that. That's why he's sad at the end of the movie. He knows that it's all going to shit and that it could all be... Ok... if he could just compromise.

Dropping the shield really was the better option.

Fuck, the more I think about it, Civil War was a better movie than BvS

Superhero registration and control doesn't prevent collateral damage, it just gives the government legal protection when it inflicts collateral damage on you. Or to be more explicit: government control of the Avengers is not the government preventing the Avengers from killing you in the crossfire while fighting someone, it's giving the government the legal right to kill you using the Avengers.

This is one of the ways Civil War screwed up: not spending enough time developing Cap's view on the issue. He mentions off hand "this is just shifting the blame" but doesn't get a chance to explain it further because the Russos were obsessed with "50% of the audience on each side" and explaining Cap's side further would have caused the whole pro-Accords argument to completely fall apart.

>6'1

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He didn't "successfully" reproduce it. They went semi insane

he literally didn't though

Tony was about to commit murder. You really think Cap would allow this? Whatever you faggot think, vengeance isn't justice.

They were uncontrollable freaks that could kill Zemo instead of being controlled by anyone else.

I don't even think Tony would be all that happy with murdering somebody he knows is actually a victim in the situation once he came down off the rage. He knows deep down Bucky isn't responsible, but Tony is rightfully angry that Cap didn't tell him. Murdering Bucky would haunt Tony for the rest of his life. Cap stopping him is honestly the best thing he could have done for everyone at that point.

>people who do crimes when brainwashed are executed by courts all the time in real life
>brainwashing is real

No, it wasn't.

and they kiss

That's the intermediate solution.

You're a complete idiot

Okay Thane, go treat your Keprals syndrome

This. Cap liked Tony well enough, and missed him when he left the Avengers, but nothing compares to the guy he grew up with and went to war with.

tiny stank deserves it

Superior Tony wouldn't have let this happen

No one cares tonkyfags

TBF, ignoring Tony's emotional involvement with Sokovia, what was he suppose to do? If he refuses to sign that puts him in a position where he's either forced to retire or go on the run with the rest of the Avengers. We know the former is impossible for him when he's so paranoid over a looming alien threat and the latter is also not a good alternative because he's a tech hero reliant on money to fund his heroics. He'd be stripped of all his assets and likely become a liability. The Avengers would've still been divided on Tony's half.

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Are you retarded? Do you think schizophrenics having an unforeseen psychotic episode and committing crimes get the electric chair?

>Posting two characters that got gene altered while they were both in the single digits and still growing
At least Tony got to 6'1 natty

Yknow. Thanos as leader of masters of evil, using the time stone to grab MCU villains to make his own masters of evil would be kino

Apparently you've never been to Texas. They even snuff the retarded criminals.

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>He was clearly brainwashed at the time and couldn't control his own actions.
>It was pretty clear he was framed for the bombing by this point.
>Black Panther's father was recently murdered by the villain of the movie compared to Tony's parents who were killed decades ago and yet he still managed to keep a cool head in the end and not kill the man

Tony was clearly in the wrong 100%. That was my biggest issue with the movie. No matter how hard they tried to nuance it it was obvious the Captain America was in the right. Hell the civilian casualties because of the Avengers up to that point were typically pretty good. Only like 100 people died in a full scale invasion of Manhattan. If anything that's a miracle and if you compare that to the millions that would have been nuked if they had been "regulated" it's pretty obvious who's in the right here.

>Being on Iron Man’s side
Bitch