Woah... Deep

so, is it cool to shit on Alan Moore now?

Only if you're Ladderbro.

No, this is mostly a marvirgin company war thread, don't believe me? Make a thread shitting on any Alan Moore work at Marvel and some fags will instantly go full sperg rage at you.

I lost interest in the animated movie the instant they released a frame of it that wasn't in BTAS style

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Chans website lost every potential moral high ground since Christchurch. At least Tumblr didnt radicalized mosque shooters

Who ever said he was deep?

Seriously, is "Let's kill everybody" a grown-ups answer to the realization that the world is cruel and more or less senseless?

I can absolutely believe it.

What did Moore even do at Marvel?
Also I'd like to think any actual comic fan would know that Moore and Morrison's work is so far above the rest of the genre that it's stupid to even try and shit on them for the sake of company wras

>What did Moore even do at Marvel?
Captain Britain.

>What did Moore even do at Marvel?
>Also I'd like to think any actual comic fan would know
Lmfao an actual comic fan would know what Moore did at Marvel you hipster bandwagon faggot
Go watch a snyder movie loser

Why are kikes so bad at blending in?

It bothers me now that people parrot the whole 'one bad day can make a man go crazy' as if it's A) true or B) justified, especially when Batman himself says why it's bullshit
Same thing happens with Falling Down

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This. The story doesn't say that one bad day can actually make a normal person go crazy, Gordon came out of Joker's torture ride sane, coherent, and still believing in his code of ethics.

Memes like that are popular with teens, i.e. literal children who aren't known for their sophisticated perspective.
Maybe this is news to you, but teens will always exist and have a narrow frame of reference.

Killing Joke is one of the stories that proves an audience might not deserve a work. Most people who read it completely missed that just because The Joker is the protagonist doesn't mean he still isn't the bad guy.

Right, but these memes are used most frequently here by edgy manchildren.

I hate the Killing Joke.

It makes the Joker look like an idiot, poor bastard, a victim, who's wrong in core, but has reasons to do what he does.

It goes completely against the criminal mastermind with a taste for the flamboyant and extraordinaire. A man who would tell the police by advance that he would do a thing, and then laugh at them for trying to stop him, and then doing it. He is an adventurer, a fellow who enjoy to live and dare. He is awesome.

But this version of the character makes me feel sad for beating him. He is not a dashing antagonist, he is an embarassment. And that makes me angry.

Gotta start somewhere.

you think Yea Forums had any moral authority EVER? The Yea Forums community has always prided itself on their right to hate others and just be deviant/offensive/depraved.
And I totally disagree that Yea Forums "radicalized" the shooter.

>potential
As in if Yea Forums could ever get woke on being model citizens and showing people the right way.

Protagonist bias is hard to break.

Seinfeld tried to tell us.

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He showed off his guns on Yea Forums. /pol/ is very much part of the culture that encourages violence and normalizes homicidal thoughts. Sometimes it's not just larping.

I appreciate that The Killing Joke was a story that allowed Joker to display not just an inner life and motivation but a range of emotions that he didn't before, and allowed him to slow down and briefly recognize the sheer futility of everything he and Batman does. It's a story about Joker's cruelty winning over his majesty and him being, at last, tired. Tired of being evil, tired of running on a hamster wheel for comic sales, so tired that all he could offer were a couple of crimes any sufficiently depraved thug could’ve thought of, and a handful of third-rate deathtraps.

And that's where the issue is: it should be the last Joker story, not the absolute definitive one. TKJ keeps trying to build a psychologically believable profile of a character who's anything but and cannot sustain that kind of baggage, and ultimately disregards it's own attempts to humanize and ground Joker on realism by falling into the Batman tropes of fantastical theatrics and sensationalized stereotypes of mental illness. The moment where Joker sees himself on the puddle is powerful enough on it's own, and all the stuff about failed comedians and dead babies and wives is just so goddamn melodramatic that you'd think it was mocking conventional supervillain origins.

The story actively undermines the "one bad day" idea, which just makes you wonder what's the point of even attempting to prove that The Joker has any point to prove or why attempt to create his backstory as someone who could lose it all and become an inhuman ghoul because of one bad day. It feels like Moore wanted to write a human story about an inhuman character and was never able to bridge the two together.

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Is Joker's statement here meant to be deep? I think it's more just revealing of the Joker's inner sadness and uncertainty. Clearly something bad happened to him that led him to adapt this extremely negative world view. It's a little moment of humanity for this normally contemptible villain, like the comic is suggesting that he wasn't always an insane monster.

>haha nihilism amirite?

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D-FENS always had serious underlying mental/emotional problems though, it's not a complete 180 for him. Also, unlike the Joker, he honestly doesn't recognise that he's "the bad guy" - it's not "innocent victim of circumstance -> one bad day -> gleefully evil villain", it's "fucked up guy -> yet another bad day -> violent fucked up guy"

Wait I misread your post. Disregard this

There aren't any grown-ups in capecomics. By definition all capecomic characters try to struggle to retain agency or overcome impotence wether by superpower, choices, responsibility or in the Joker's case, murder.
In the real world everyone but the 0.01% rich people and the Jews are completely and utterly powerless. There is no answer to the realization that the world is cruel or senseless because we as a species do not have mouths to answer with.
A deep comic is one where it's 60 panels of people just shrugging. Pic related.

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The Joker knows Batman is insane but he also knows he's not evil or chaotic. This is his way of asking, "Why didn't you turn out like me?"

The Joker wants to prove he isn't alone, that anyone can snap like he did. In the end, he has to live with the fact that he snapped because he is weak,

Kys

All this development is an entirely new character. There's no wit, no plan, no achievement. Its just Joker being sad and lonely and Batman feeling empathy.

That Joker acts like a victim. That's boring. Pathetic. He is no match for Batman. He is weak, stupid and WANTS TO LECTURE ON NIHILISM. But not as a Ubermensch would do, acting and having agency in the world. He is a utter failure, crybabying about nonsense. I don't understand how a comic book that made Joker seems vulnerable and weak has become somehow his most known comic.

Moore's Joker is a joke. The real Joker, Dini's Joker, is so much better.

I don't think Batman is insane. Definitely unhealthy, but not insane. Batman is just dressing up like a bat to try and fix the world and Joker sees how ridiculous that is and wants to believe Batman is as vulnerable to corruption as he himself was.

Hello Zack Snyder. I hope you’re feeling better.

Batman and Joker are two sides of the same coin.

It bothers me that people parrot the obvious shitty straw man of "one bad day can make a man go crazy."
It's never one thing or one day that fucks you up for life.
It takes a village to fuck a child.

>mfw I remember that time I saw some edgelords on 8gag's film board talking about Falling Down like it was a seriously "redpilled" movie about the righteous anger of the white man against those dastardly minorities
For fuck's sake, where do people get this from? You are so very obviously not meant to sympathize with Michael Douglas' character or believe his explanation that he was a normal guy who unfairly got his life ruined. I guess that's partly true in regards to him losing his job, but the rest of the movie shows that his problems run much deeper than that and that he's extremely unstable. It wasn't "one bad day" with him because it was clearly a slow descent into misanthropy over a long period of time. How are there so many dimwits who miss that?

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It’s also Veronica and how she refuses to go out with me!

>It takes a village to fuck a child.

I don't know why this made me think of you Gordonposting.

Every now and then I wonder if The Killing Joke is a story that should have been told using Two-Face instead.

Having random circumstance break everything was Harvey Dent’s deal from day one, and the nature of his breakdown in relation to Batman - Batman responding to what happens to him by taking back control of his life, while Two-Face’s idea of justice and control are so shattered he surrenders responsibility and identity altogether - is something more complicated and more disturbing than a guy becoming a sociopath because everything went to hell. Hell, we've already seen a Killing Joke set-up work very well for Two-Face in a Teen Titans issue involving Cyborg.
The way the story is laid out makes a lot more sense for Two-Face as well, with the deformed henchmen, the attempt to break Jim Gordon’s sense of faith in law and order, Batman reaching out to him at the end and the villain admitting he just doesn’t have the strength to be anything else. You could hardly transpose him directly into the story as it is and have it work, but it plays by the beats of what we think of as a Two-Face story far more than any Joker story (at least at the time).

But at the same time I don't think I'd want Harvey to get pushed into the irredeemably cruel status that The Killing Joke pushed Joker to, and if this story was held up as a seminal Two-Face story it might have had a really terrible effect on any future storyline starring the character (as it did for Joker).
The Killing Joke effectively rewrote Joker from scratch and I wouldn't want that for Harvey.

I'm of the opinion that while Joker deserves to be the number one Batman arch-enemy, Two-Face is a far more thematically rich character, and I find it annoying whenever writers take beats from Two-Face stories to put it on Joker stories (see: White Knight or Telltale's Batman) and people write off Two-Face as a gimmicky gangster while praising Joker as the complex villain around.

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>I’ve never really liked my story in The Killing Joke. I think it put far too much melodramatic weight upon a character that was never designed to carry it. It was too nasty, it was too physically violent. There were some good things about it, but in terms of my writing, it’s not one of me favorite pieces. If, as I said, god forbid, I was ever writing a character like Batman again, I’d probably be setting it squarely in the kind of “smiley uncle period where Dick Sprang was drawing it, and where you had Ace the Bat-Hound and Bat-Mite, and the zebra Batman—when it was sillier. Because then, it was brimming with imagination and playful ideas. I don’t think that the world needs that many brooding psychopathic avengers. I don’t know that we need any.

>It was a disappointment to me, how Watchmen was absorbed into the mainstream. It had originally been meant as an indication of what people could do that was new. I’d originally thought that with works like Watchmen and Marvelman, I’d be able to say, “Look, this is what you can do with these stale old concepts. You can turn them on their heads. You can really wake them up. Don’t be so limited in your thinking. Use your imagination.” And, I was naively hoping that there’d be a rush of fresh and original work by people coming up with their own. But, as I said, it was meant to be something that would liberate comics. Instead, it became this massive stumbling block that comics can’t even really seem to get around to this day. They’ve lost a lot of their original innocence, and they can’t get that back. And, they’re stuck, it seems, in this kind of depressive ghetto of grimness and psychosis. I’m not too proud of being the author of that regrettable trend.

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The last one shows Batman is just as tired as he is of the endless cat and mouse game. Batman is the only other person who is as dead inside as he is. That's the unspoken attraction to each other.

Did you actually read the killing joke?

Joker was clinically insane there, and his reasoning here purposefully doesn't make sense. He's fixated on his own story and how "one bad day" is enough to change everyone. In a way, it's probably a method of coping with his own guilt. He's also proven wrong just few pages later in the comics.

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> In the real world everyone but the 0.01% rich people and the Jews are completely and utterly powerless
That's not true. The NZ shooter did make quite a mess. The question is, do you really want that kind of a power?
> A deep comic is one where it's 60 panels of people just shrugging
Stop whining. Everyday struggles are not smaller just because most people don't have a potential to change the world. If everyone was as indifferent as you, our species would die millenniums ago.

Blame modern capitalism for such indifference. The system can only function through inspiring indifference and hatred in anybody stuck in its disgusting cogs. Optimism and fondness for humanity would result in the system being rejected. They know that, so they make sure such things are dying concepts.

I think the killing Joke is a cop out. The fact of the matter of Joker's involvement as redhood in some small time robbery of a chemical plant (I mean why the fuck would a chemical plant have any money on hand- dissolving bodies for another mob?). Batman insteads steps in instead of calling the cops. Batman fucks everything up. Batman created joker. Joker is his Frankenstein's monster. The bigger story is Batman absolute lack of remorse.

How does he feel about Lego Batman?

Who the hell is "they"? The boogeyman that exist in your head?

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Shut up, assblasted tranny

>The NZ shooter did make quite a mess.
Oh wow, he killed some people who couldn't stop dying if they wanted to and had no impact on the world alive or dead. So empowering.
That's literally the Joker/terrorist mentality, that you can make an impact through killing innocents. You can't and you don't. The Joker is as much a child as Superman.

What are the best Dini joker stories?

>this trap
>trap
HA!

Did they recolor the comic when they rereleased it?

Yeah, Bolland hated the original colouring and was very enthusiastic to redo it himself iirc

He's an evil-doer for a sense of power. He's villainous. What about that offends you?

Fuck off back to R3ddit,you stupid niggerfaggot poltard.

The Christmas issue by far

whoa

>hurr durr muh Yea Forums
it was infinity chan you stupid faggot.

Except his thread was on infinity chan.

Hot take: the ending is dogshit. Moore broke one of DC's cardinal rules: Batman never laughs at the Joker.

>'one bad day can make a man go crazy'
>Falling Down
Did you not finish the movie?
That's deliberate misdirection.

Of course I finished the movie, but I've seen the same line of thinking used and defended for that

Moore broke all kinds of rules all day every day.
Then the faggot has the never to give us the whole "I'm not the Messiah!" schtick.
Just own it and die on the cross for our sins you fucking hack.

>It goes completely against the criminal mastermind with a taste for the flamboyant and extraordinaire. A man who would tell the police by advance that he would do a thing, and then laugh at them for trying to stop him, and then doing it. He is an adventurer, a fellow who enjoy to live and dare. He is awesome.
So you basically don't like that it makes the Joker pathetic because you like to fantasize about being him and how fuckin' COOL he is.

It works if you don't make him edgy or actually kill anybody.
Remember a lot of people her grew up on Dini Joker.

Its getting there user

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>it takes a city to fuck the joker

How is that 'clown world' worthy? Do you thin Republicans are pro racism and love it or something

/pol/ hates racebaiting buzzwords....when they're not using them.
The headline simplistically breaks it down as two politicians calling one another bigot on twitter.

Duh. It's a joke. You only laugh at the end, stupid.

Speak for yourself, Zizek. Go read The Bourgeois Virtues.

And some retards are already thinking the new joker movie is about that when the fucking trailer states that he was already ill to begin with

Another quote from Moore
>The Killing Joke is a story about Batman and the Joker; it isn't about anything that you're ever going to encounter in real life, because Batman and the Joker are not like any human beings that have ever lived. So there's no important human information being imparted ... Yeah, it was something that I thought was clumsy, misjudged and had no real human importance. It was just about a couple of licensed DC characters that didn't really relate to the real world in any way.

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Jerry Seinfeld was a great Joker

Thank fuck, killing joke is shit and I’m so glad even Moore admits he phoned it in.

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>Having random circumstance break everything was Harvey Dent’s deal from day one
Two face only got his tragic origin story like 40 years after he was created. Before that he was just a disfigured guy

Batman and Joker were the central catalysts, but I feel like Alan forgot the protag of sorts was still Gordon. Who is meant to represent humanity being pulled by and enduring forces of violent order and chaos. Being expected to just let go and pick a side so someone can feel the comfort of relative victory even come eventual defeat.

I don't think a lot of cops would find it a very illuminating read or point or anything, but I think a lot of them could relate to running into some nutjob who makes you their punching bag over things you have nothing to do with just because you're doing your job, or the hardasses in law, politics or the public with too much time, money and influence who evade the inbetween you put up with but try to enforce Justice, i.e. their idea of it, onto the world everyday only pulling the pendulum further one way so it swings harder the other into whoever happens to be in the way.

TDK, which the Nolans even acknowledge being inspired from TKJ, made a more elaborate case for how fucked those like Gordon and Harvey are from being in the public eye and position of responsibility while the shadow figures dance around. Shit I don't even need to go to cops, I imagine there are tons of people in similar positions who feel what Gordon's put through every day to some degree even if not as severe.

Like the teachers or school staff who can see the troublemakers provoking someone who is a day away from snapping, but can only try to delay the inevitable within the limit of rules they're under and given.

The story focuses around Batman and Joker because it's a DC property, but anyone and everyone caught in a system of people and problems can probably tell the big picture is still more how fucked we all are no matter what side you're on.

Well Moore is obviously far more intelligent than I am...so I guess I believe him.

how does the public consciousness allow words like homophobic or islamiphobic to exist?

because even normies can recognize social discrimination?
what kind of question is this?

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they are such stupid words, does not even imply discrimination or hatred.

denotation v connotation
inb4 linguistic prescriptivism v descriptivism

Really. I view him as someone who evolved from a flawed human being into a perfect monster.

LIke all his humanity was eaten out of him by the acid of tragedy. He broke... or, his humanity broke... and what was left was free, and so pure.

Beware the fury of a patient man...

>There aren't any grown-ups in capecomics.

...Granted.

Allow me to counter with

>There aren't any grown-ups in reality

This should be required reading for all cape writers.

>If you don't think the world is crazy without trannies, then you don't deserve to think it is crazy with trannies.
HONK HONK

Yea Forums used to actually have a baseline of etiquette and a sense of justice. We were fucking hooligans but we wouldn't stand for SWATting, real Nazis, personal army requests, etc. It was all about laughs. The first time /news/ opened it got taken over by stormfront and promptly deleted.

But as time went on and kids with plastic in their fucking brains started arriving the site's culture began to break down. Moot stopped giving a fuck and needed server money so he put /pol/ back up and started monetizing their clicks. New users lurked for absolutely zero time. /i/ got shut down because what started as something for harmless fun became the home of violent spite.

You all ruined the internet just like your grandparents ruined the real world.

>Yea Forums used to actually have a baseline of etiquette and a sense of justice.

this is a cognitive fallacy; Yea Forums's also been involved with making multiple instances of self-harm or suicide, not to mention

yes doing habbo raids was fun but don't for one second believe that Yea Forums has been anything but hordes of chaotic neutral idiots doing whatever they wanted for the sake of it

no, I said IMPLY for a reason. it doesn't have to imply discrimination or hatred, unlike anti-semitism which does the job well. I think it is good that we can separate sexism and misogyny, but the latter is far too used when a person actually means the former.

Yea Forums made light of people like the an hero who did it faggot over a lost ipod, but if you think people were serious when they said to become an hero you're wrong.

You can pretend things weren't different then, that the people weren't different then, but for those of us who were here from the start the change is obvious.

Okay what about posting pics like growing crystals that could easily kill gullible retards?

"Homophobic" used to have a very different meaning. It was for people who hated gay folk because they feared turning gay themselves. Now every flavor of hate has "phobic" slapped on it.

If you actually mix bleach and ammonia to make bubbles the world is better off without you

Also it takes way more than a cup of chlorine gas to kill someone and they'd need to be in an unventilated space and not leave.

>if you think people were serious when they said to become an hero you're wrong
>no wait the ones that would have an hero'd don't count

>mixing unrelated things because I wasn't actually here
>ignoring that the instructions as followed are harmless and it's a joke
There's plastic in your brain. Thank your lead-addled granddad

>all this trannie posting

Damn, gamers really did rise up.
All you have to do is post a joker

It's a god damn shame when Douglas Adams has more subtlety and wit than any modern cape movie writing these days.

>one bad day can make a man go crazy
>Batman literally becomes an obsessed vigilante over one bad day at the movie theater.
Please.

Batman was a kid when his really bad day happened so there's that.

this
we need to RISE UP

STRAIGHT TO THE TOP

People really ought shit on Moore more, the fact that he has created some artistically interesting work doesn't take away from the fact that he's spent the last two decades making bad porn and trying to subvert lovecraft in a way that would be edgy to literally just lovecraft.

Dude made lolicon and no one called him on it.

Unfortunately

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>Dude made lolicon and no one called him on it.
Because there's nothing to "call him out" upon, you retarded normalfag. Let him write whatever he wants to write, no matter how dumb or trite. No need for witch hunts.

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>The Killing Joke is Alan Moore phoning it in
Shit I need to read the stuff he wrote when he actually gives a damn

This is right up there with Bruce Timm's insistence that the first two seasons of BTAS look worse than the rest of the DCAU - artists are brilliant, but that often comes at the cost of their fucking sanity. How else can you go back to a comic about a man who lost his mind, trying to drive other people insane by forcing them to acknowledge the absurdity of life in the lights of a disused carnival... only to suck out all the color and clashing tones and make it look as flat and realistic as possible.

The public consciousness is made up of unoriginal, lazy fucks it's why every scandal political or not has the suffix -gate at the end cuz Watergate y'know

The average person is lazy and stupid, they latch on to popular buzwords and repeat them ad nausium without actually using their reading comprehension

Neonomicon was a labour of love for him, and it's so much worse than the killing joke.

Even before the split personality and child abuse were added, Two-Face was still defined by the random chance that ruined his life and that he decided to abide by from that point onwards.

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Didn't Yea Forums put flashing images on epilepsy charity websites many years ago

>This is right up there with Bruce Timm's insistence that the first two seasons of BTAS look worse than the rest of the DCAU
He's looking at it from the perspective of an animator. The B:TAS designs are chunkier and they are more difficult to draw than his STAS/TNBA/BB/JL style so when the animation was bad, it was worse than the worst-animated episodes of the others. With Bolland he claims always wanted muted colors. Good pencilers don't necessarily make the best colorists.

>hurr durr hebephilia is not lolicon
kill yourself alan

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Dude that was hate chan.

>the Joker is balding in that new Gotham show

G-George?

As far as I know the guy faked it.

8ch and 4ch are the exact same demographic. "8ch is full of people too degenerate for 4ch" is normalfag bullshit. Anything you can ascribe to one site goes the exact same for the other one.

This hurts so much!

I met John Higgins (Original Colorist) when he had an exhibition in Liverpool, amazing guy with a lot to say about the industry, so down to earth despite working on this and Watchmen. His colour style is so unique and inspiring, one of the few times I prefer coloured to simple black and white art.

What is it with newer comics trying to hide the black lines rather than use the colours to make them stand out? In the original the colours are super bright and the blacks are super black, in the newer one everything just blends together.

It's like the opposite of this.

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>fucking teenagers is wrong
>despite the fact 14 year olds were considered adults for thousands of years of human history
Sure thing fag, there's no way the age of consent was a modern invention
Stop being a retard and realize the age of consent was only invented so white people would stop breeding when women are at their most fertile.

This. The board culture is generally the same.

>Stop being a retard and realize the age of consent was only invented so white people would stop breeding when women are at their most fertile.
Yeah, I'm sure all those Brits in 1885 were definitely trying to wipe out the white race when they raised the age of consent to 16.

>What is it with newer comics trying to hide the black lines rather than use the colours to make them stand out?
What I heard is Bolland just felt his style is realistic and so needs realistic lighting and colors and saw Higgins' colors as too cartoony or something.
It's a shame but that's the gift of it, and since Alan wouldn't tell an artist who did most of the work it took to make his script a comic instead of a novel where to shove it and Higgins and Gibbons seem less vocal than Moore, that was that.

And while I'm on a guess roll, I figure they imagine that the two versions exist together instead of one replacing the other. That's not really the case on the shelves obviously, but you get the meaning.

Sorta true but their Yea Forums somehow is pretty comfy even if its slow af.

Yea Forums is one of the fastest board in here.

In the story itself, young Alice getting sexually abused by predatory lesbians, Hook fucking underaged prostitute Peter and trying to rape Wendy only to get turned off by her budding pubescence, and Dorothy getting fucked by her father is depicted as wrong. Of course it's all shown in glorious detail anyway.

They’re hypocrites. That’s it.

>get pozzed
ftfy
you filthy faggot

Douglas Adams has more subtlety and wit than the vast majority of people.

You now remember that the Joker started as a murderer who was executed at the end of his first appearance.

No, I don't remember that. I wasn't born before WW2.
I do remember the Tim Burton movie though and the Joker wasn't really edgy in that. He killed people but most of them were just other criminals.

>No, I don't remember that.
It's been reprinted tons.

> I wasn't born before WW2
Neither was I. What's wrong with you?

Shut up, you fucking retard.

this, unfortunately

>Ladderbro
What the fuck does this even mean?

Drawings aren't little girls, you mong.

>the first two seasons of BTAS look worse than the rest of the DCAU
Everybody looked fat. Simplifying and trimming down the characters helped a lot.

>Dude made lolicon and no one called him on it.

Based. Is this in Lost Girls? Might actually read it now

>Alice Fairchild. At fourteen, Alice is coerced into sex with her father's friend, which she endures by staring into a mirror and imagining she is having sex with herself. At an all-girls boarding school, Alice convinces many of her schoolmates to sleep with her, and develops a strong attraction to her P.E. teacher, who offers Alice a job as a personal assistant (and sexual plaything) when she leaves employment at the school. Alice's employer marries a Mr. Redman, but begins hosting extravagant, drug-fuelled lesbian sex parties. Alice becomes addicted to opium, and watches a young girl named Lily, among many others, abused just as she was. When Lily is instructed by Mrs. Redman to secretly perform cunnilingus on Alice under the table during a dinner party, Alice exposes her employer's secrets to the guests. Mrs. Redman has Alice declared insane, and she is put into a mental hospital where she is systematically raped by the staff. Upon release Alice resumes her very active sex life and drug use. Disowned by her family, she moves to Africa to run a family-owned diamond mine.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH

People always seem to overlook this part

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>"Weh-weh, I don't share these views therefore this comic is shit. Everyone knows my views are objectively the correct ones."

This is the bad side of your autism.

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Well, YES! But also no. Joker is fun! And I don't mean "harmless". I mean bold! Daring! And more than that: he is a CHALLENGE. He is so god damn smart that he can defy the God Damn Batman.

Superheroes are costumed people fighting freaks with colorful gimmicks and techniques. The whole gloomy sad vibe is such a waste of time and entirely out of character. If Batman is so god damn serious, why is he wearing a Bat suit (and not, say, a more practical suit)? Why is Joker building deathtraps if he could just shoot a god damn gun?

The "realism, sadness, grounded" bullshit is boring. Everybody knows that in reality, crazy people are sad, sick and pathetic. We all know superheroes can't really fix anything.

But why kill the fantasy? So comics got boring and people start to buy overcomplicated political porn-occultist bullshit that goes by the name "graphic novel", so they can feel smart for wasting time reading it?

Alan Moore ruined comics. On purpose.

>Alan Moore ruined comics. On purpose.
No, you are wrong. Gerry Conway ruined comics on purpose. Pic related is peak comics and he shat all over it because "muh damaged".

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found the pedophile

>Much peak fertility at age 14
Just look in the mirror and say "I'm a pedophile" so we don't have to endure your insane rambling justifications.

Dude, I don't have to be wrong so you can be right. Both of them (and plenty of others) keep ruining superheroes.

>Dude, I don't have to be wrong so you can be right.
No, but you'd have to be insane to think any of your rambling is coherent.

Grim darkness and "realism" ruined superheroes, period

Bob Kane and Bill Finger ruined comics those shitheads. It should have been Superman and Superman alone, then America would know the way.

this but unironically

So much pearl clutching on Yea Forums lately.

Will you girls stop whinging? "Look, don't touch" is the rule basically every guy follows anyway, even if they don't say so. Lolis are just the streamlined version of it.

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>That episode of Seinfeld where George fell into a bucket of mopwater at a museum and subsequently picked up a nearby sword and killed the janitor

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bump

More like you don’t think the world is crazy without trannies, you haven’t been paying attention.

IM GONNA SAY IT AND NONE OF YOU Yea ForumsCHUMPS ARE GONNA STOP ME!!!

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Then you must really hate Snyder turning him into the Mary Sue to End All Mary Sues.

When did Snyder make a Joker movie?

I don't really see your point.

Is it safe to say that Killing Joke is overrated?

So he is favor of Silver Age "silly stuff"?

>lmao dude any story evrry that isn't a biography is shit
And retards ITT believe this just because Moore has some semblance of authority to them.

>It bothers me that people parrot the obvious shitty straw man of "one bad day can make a man go crazy."
yeah and it's obviously not backed up by science either. It takes a lifetime to become the person that you are.

He's lying, okay?
It's that simple. He's shifting blame, contradicting himself, and defaulting to the old It's Everyone Else's Fault, I'm So Disappointed bit.
Moore is a fucking liar. If he legitimately wanted to return to the good old days of children only capes, if he were sincerely, genuinely sorry for what he started he would have killed himself years ago as a demonstration. Instead he does these piece of shit interviews to talk about how much above it all he is. Fucking hell I wouldn't mind cutting his beard off to teach him a lesson.

Scott Snyder, not Zack

Moore is very much like John Byrne at this point, in the sense that he lives in a personal echo chamber of adulation. Whenever any comment that does not fit the prevailing narrative makes it to that chamber, they are discarded as being from someone who "does not get it". Main difference between Byrne and Moore is that one wants to be Jack Kirby and the other Aleister Crowley.

It's a lot more than ONE day by the looks of the trailer. The bits with his shirt off give off that The Machinist vibe.

>Aleister Crowley
The bad guy from the Iron Sherlock movie played by Dr. Sivana?

...that Batman is terrified of becoming (or already being) a megalomaniacal lunatic like the Joker is the key fucking component of their relationship, you stupid fuck. Jesus christ. How do you tie your god damn shoes, you dense piece of shit.

I

What?

Really?

Maybe in the modern piece of shit era.
The REAL Batman is terrified of nothing.

>becomes fear itself
>terrified of nothing

You're an honest-to-god idiot.

The bad guy played by Mark Strong from the RDJ Sherlock Holmes movie was inspired by Aleister Crowley.

Huh. That makes a lot of sense, actually.

>He can't possibly regret what he's done to the superhero genre so he must be lying! Fuck the original essense of superheroes! Since i coulndn't accept the genre the way it was or move on to other things they have to pander to my 40s years old sensibilities like the Manchild that i am

The thing about Moore is that he seems to only be capable of writing stories with a lot of sex and/or violence. He made Voldemort a rapist and Harry Potter a school shooter.

IM DA JOKA BAY-BEE

You're pathetically naive if you think any of Moore's speeches are expressions of sincere regret. He's backhandedly judging the whole world and the entire superhero genre because instead of blooming into some kind of postmodern utopia where his works would be unique, everyone went on the bandwagon and made the same shit he did, often better.
So now he says it'd be better if all superhero comics were kidshit, because again that would grant him a unique distinction as someone who doesn't write kidshit.
He's not sorry for his stories. He's sorry he didn't get away with being the only one telling them.

Enlighten us, then, and tell us what is the original essence of superheroes.

Bright color costumed champs who punch baddies starring in picture books with world balloons meant for boys and girls ages 6 to 9.

I was going to say 8 to 12, but still you sum it up right

Joker was an utter failure the moment he became a super villain and knows his acts of fantastical whimsy don't really matter on a higher pedestal of life compared to other God like beings.

What kind of a pathetic cuntboy still reads comics at 10 and above? That's when you start reading Tolkien and Asimov.

So, really, something that has not existed since the 50s. How is it Moore's fault that went away? You can blame him and Frank Miller for the grimdark era, but capes had abandoned pic related long before they even showed up.

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It's Moore's fault because he should've used his privilege and influence to write a reconstruction of superheroes instead of a deconstruction.
With bold, big bright blue bletters: Bomic Books bare bor babies!

God you're a pussy.

user the issue is that Moore complains that capes aren't kid-exclusive content and people above the age of target demographic read them despite the fact that he has NEVER written anything for children.

Get a life pussy, putting real life adult shit in comics has been a staple for fantasy since the odessey.

He has stated time and again that what he wanted to show with Watchmen, which I think we can agree is the main culprit, is that authors could do more with superhero stories. The key being he says "could", not "have to". He never intended us to abandon every other possibility in favor of "superheroes for grown-ups". I never felt he owes us any kiddie stories. I always assumed that he left that to others. If anything, the downfall of the genre was that Watchmen was too successful. If it had just been a critical success with modest sales, DC and Marvel would not have tried to replicate it over and over again. Putting the blame solely on Moore is not fair. The process began before his time and by the time he could have helped reverse it, the damage was already done.

But why?
Answer why put real life adult shit in picture pamphlets when that's what real books and media are for?
There should be laws against consuming media that isn't intended for you, requesting things you shouldn't have or thinking thoughts you're not supposed to think.

Only the Dinijoker fag is putting the blame on Moore. The rest of us are scrutinizing his motives for proclaiming that super-hero comics should be for silly little children. What part of "he's fucking lying" do you not understand?

And what I'm telling you is that he is not lying. What he's always said is that superheroes are primarily for kids, and you assume that to mean they are exclusively for kids. And he can write whatever stories he damn well pleases. The fact that he believes capes are mainly for kids does not mean he has to write for kids. What don't you understand? What ulterior motives could he have? He kept writing superhero stories for over 20 years after Watchmen and he rejected millions of dollars. He obviously liked the genre and was not in it for the money. It's okay not to like the guy, but pretend that he somehow had a master plan to destroy capes from within is tinfoil hat stuff.

>And he can write whatever stories he damn well pleases.
No, no he can't.
He can't if he's going to stand on a pedestal and demand the zeitgeist shifts.
>What ulterior motives could he have?
He's a postmodernist. The most important thing to a postmodernist is to be a shocking stand-out. That's why he wanted to show what "could" be done with superheroes, he is always trying to create the Great Social Commentary Graphic Novel. But, big shock, nobody was going to let him be anything more than just another grimdark sex and violence writer if there was money in it. So now superheroes are for kids.
>What don't you understand?
I don't understand how you can still defend a blatant hypocrite. Case and point, no, he didn't always say that superheroes are for kids. That is something he started saying after he became a has-been.
>The fact that he believes capes are mainly for kids does not mean he has to write for kids.
What he needs to do is shave his stupid beard and never fucking speak to an interviewer again.

Cuz picture based stories shouldn't be inflexible and tied down to child like standards?

>inflexible
People need structure to be productive. If you deny them the picture books at 10 and make them read real books it formulates an exact regimen. If you can't plan the entire cultural intake of a citizen from birth to death, you're just asking for your society to collapse into degeneracy.
And while we're at it there shouldn't be any artists because they are liberals and don't get real jobs. Picture books can be done by automated machines running on oil and guns.

Get a load of this piece of shit hippie communist scum.
Everyone on Yea Forums knows the only piece of media anyone in America needs is the Holy Bible!

>Case and point, no, he didn't always say that superheroes are for kids.
I assume you have proof, so let's hear it. Link to Alan Moore saying superheroes are not for kids.

That's fucking insane, retard. The burden of proof is the other way around, you need to provide citations from before 1985 of him saying superhero comics are intended for kids.

I'm okay with stuff like Watchmen, The Authority and such existing, you can do whatever you please with the characters you own, but if you doing that kind stuff with mainstream superheroes it's just wrong

Nah its always about trannies with you fags

>not after Charlottesville and going after Gunn for offensive tweets
/pol/ is double standards personified.

Well trannies usually do look like clowns.

Yeah but we didn't do the habbo raids because we hated niggers, we did it for the lulz. There is a sense of revisionism that exists today where people act like that is justification that we always harbored racists. This place fucking celebrated Obama being elected ffs.

I maintain that topic never mattered enough for him to even comment on, and only after Watchmen did he begin to talk about it. You, on the other hand, maintain that he did believe it then and he does now. To sum up, before Watchmen, I have no claim as to what he thought, you on the other hand claim that he said superheroes are for kids. I make no claim, but you are making one. The burden of proof is yours. Get an education.

>You, on the other hand, maintain that he did believe it then and he does now.
Wrong, I am making a claim that the only thing Moore believes is that everyone should suck his dick regardless of what he does and everything he says is to that end. The proof of that is the fact that he is still breathing instead of necking himself.

The person that proves Joker wrong isn't Batman, but Gordon. Batman also had a really bad day, just like the Joker, and became the Batman. It's Gordon that proves the Joker isn't right, because he was tortured, had his daughter shot, but still chose to aprehend the Joker instead of outright killing him.

>hurting someone is ok because hurting people was common in human history

Hurting people is pretty fucking based ngl.

I have not read this comic but this page is so jarring because of a 180 turn in panel 4 for absolutely no reason
It was posted on /ic/ and I fixed it

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Is it me, or is there a lot of posts missing?

Pardon my amateur film theory take, but I've heard that sudden visual switches like that are intentionally supposed to illustrate a change in power through positioning.

Initially Batman;s the leading figure each panel, he comes from the top or left where we begin looking or reading and it's his actions that instigate what happens thereon.

We start with Batman towering over Joker, and next, even in the panel where only their limbs are shown, it's Batman's blunt but swift boot disarming Joker's dexterous but ineffectual hand reminding you Batman doesn't even need to physically try, all the while verbally punching down at Joker who is figuratively and literally beneath him.

So he hoists him up with Joker's limp body, seemingly not even reacting or resisting, appearing all the more small in close comparison to Batman now.

It's at this exact moment he snaps back.
Hence we suddenly stop leading with Batman for an instant, Joker is STILL shown in the lower position since he can't change his nature but he can still turn it on others. He goes for a comical retaliation even, something those like Bane or Ra's wouldn't do for all their skill and intelligence, but something effective due to its simplicity.

I'll even take my guess work a step more and say Joker's "recollection" of being blinded and helpless by the Red Hood holes shifting might have inspired this act of revenge.

Anyway we switch back to Batman as the towering introductory figure but it's almost satirical now because he's helpless, with it ambiguous if he's telling or pleading with Joker "don't", while Joker's having a laugh as we visually wind up, and BAM get the big panel. And thank fuck for Higgin's colors to sell the impact as migraine inducing with the intense orange and red around Batman's grimacing face, and not just a little inconvenient like Bolland ended up with.

Also the transition to the next page works with the original. Joker leading again, until he isn't.

>but I've heard that sudden visual switches like that are intentionally supposed to illustrate a change in power through positioning.
Yes! That is actually the point I made in the edit.
The original comic switches to Joker with a 180 degree break, but then it goes back to the original setup with Batman on the left, crossing the 180 line twice. It makes no sense.
In the edit I made the first 4 panels flow regularly until Joker pokes Batman in the eyes, then as Batman is wounded there's a 180. Joker now has the upper hand and hits Batman. This also makes so that the direction of the action invites you to turn the page (this is not as important if the page sits on the left of a double instead of a page turn, but it's just more pleasing to end in the bottom right).
I'm definitely not saying I'm better than Brian Bolland and I love him, but I'm confident there's a paneling fuckup there.

While I'm at it, on the matter of the colors, Higgins does a great job of showing that despite Batman taking up the frame in panel 5 he's poorly lit and struggling, while Joker is still very colorful and purposeful.
I mentioned that migraine coloring effect another user put me on a few years ago, bless him for that, but I should also mention that Batman is distinctly saturated in magenta in Higgins' take while Joker and even the plank's colors remain distinct. Almost as if Batman goes from in the dark, so to speak, to submerged into Joker's chaos from panel 5 to 6.

In fact listing the numbers now I can say for sure two things.
This page is a fucking coin.
The first half, the first 3 panels are Batman's actions over Joker, the remaining 3 panels are Joker's actions over Batman.
The panels also build up, from 3 even ones to two larger and then a single big. As if a reflection of Batman and Joker's nature, one is methodical, the other escalating.

Why stop there? Notice how even when Batman takes up a frame he remains in it? Joker's hair, coat tail and the plank are escaping the confines in panel 6. That one goes to Bolland more than Higgins, but the point remains he should have embraced the idea of Joker's presence creating distortion instead of reducing that with realistic colors and lighting.

>Yes! That is actually the point I made in the edit.
I follow, but like I said I think the one off switch is supposed to be intentionally confusing and against the pattern, like Joker's act, and the subsequent return is supposed to further illustrate that something's still amiss even as we resume normal convention.

Heavy emphasis on "I think", we'd have to see the script or ask Bolland to know for sure.

>I think the one off switch is supposed to be intentionally confusing and against the pattern
If this was the intention it's bad execution. It doesn't make the scene more chaotic, it switches the characters places like they're jumping around. You can achieve this effect with a change in perspective or a camera tilt, with color or what have you without doing something akin to turning the camera upside down in a movie.
I mean, just read the edit. It flows better and the character role switch is stronger. Why would you make it worse? I don't believe this was intentional unless the adjacent pages have some really specific thing going on that forced Bolland's hand.

t. someone who only knows batman from the animated series and thinks joker should always do things just to be funny

>mfw finally understand joker's joke about the two insane guys

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You know there are like twenty batman cartoons if you can't handle a Joker that isn't written for literal children.

Based Adams. But what you on about subtlety? I always thought his prose had a tint that was funny in a smart ass way. I must have missed the subtlety then.

Like the line about the towel was in the book because he was in vacation and he heard someone say bring a towel and he added it in.

He chose to be a stubborn retard. You can spin it as "morality keeps us sane, however relative it is" but there's just no fucking excuse in-universe. Blablabla "lighten-up, why do you even read funnybooks(?)" no, it's impossible to ignore this crap anymore.

I dunno. My 12yr old psycho cousin goading me into a diaper then raping me (after forcing me to watch that heart-removal + lava scene from Temple of Doom + some porn in a dark basement) at age 5, when I was being babysat at his house, kinda coloured my view of mankind / the universe as a whole. Maybe it's just me though.

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>get caught doing a cringey joker imitation
Absolute cringe
youtube.com/watch?v=GsbIdSGwoEs

Bitch you just want two Riddlers fucking hell.

You're trying to make it sound like comics are the only thing keeping your autistic ass sane. Poorly. Forcing enthusiasm to emphasize how serious comics and life currently are. "Why can't everyone just pretend?!" Because people were never supposed to live like this, numbnuts. Like it or not, decadence and malcontent are recurring themes in a civilization's descent. Enjoy the ride down, reread your old shit and/or try and survive the fall best you can. Those have always been the only options.

Joker came first and he didn't even say what he was going to do in the form of a riddle.

>AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH
Wot?

Unironically makes sense.

>The fact of the matter of Joker's involvement as redhood in some small time robbery of a chemical plant
Within the contained context of TKJ there's nothing to confirm that story is true, or at least that Joker was Red Hood.
His wife is called Jeanie, his son Junior, one of the mobsters Joe. What's the point? All of them have a name that starts with J, something a Mr.J might invent from neurosis.
The only exception is the landlady "Mrs.Burkiss" which I think may have been a reference to the Burkiss Way, a comedy series, but you'd have to ask Alan.

>Batman insteads steps in instead of calling the cops.
In Joker's recollection the security guard showed up first, one of the mooks fired and then everyone started blasting.
>Batman fucks everything up.
Literally everyone but him fucked up even as Joker figures it, Batman simply tried to apprehend who he figured was a notorious criminal and the Red Hood jumped to his own fate.
>Batman created joker.
>Joker is his Frankenstein's monster.
Not really.
>The bigger story is Batman absolute lack of remorse.
For what? He didn't do anything.

Honestly, I miss when Joker was just a gangster who happened to be a clown or killed when he felt it was funny instead of a serial killer.

BTW I deleted all the posts.