What did Neil Gaiman mean by this?

American gods had such potential and it just got fucked towards the end. Im still kinda sour about it.

Not the poster you're replying to, but she dies, parents take her corpse and dress her up how she looked when she was a guy. She watches her own funeral with Death (I think?) and is shown that her soul/spirit is a woman.

I don't remember that part lol but wasn't the whole point of the witch spirit quest was that she couldn't go with the women because she was a bio male?

The "whole" point is that it was judgemental bullshit.

Is it? I think it's pretty obvious what OP was trying to do here by omitting that crucial fact.

>I don't remember that part lol
Because you didn't actually read the comic.

>I think it's pretty obvious what OP was trying to do here
Yes, triggering people and getting (You)s I doubt he gives a shit beyond watching people get suck into his thread.

Good job

lmao i read everything but the newest volume (wasn't out at the time)
By the moon?

The Moon, like most gods, is just another uppity bitch.
I dont think Gaiman agrees with the moon.

How is that relevant? Death comes for everyone.The point of the scene was that her spirit was female despite her body being male. Also, the whole point of the issue is that her parents and home town didn't know her so she was Alvin to them but her friend knew her so she crosses off Alvin on the tombstone with lipstick and writes Wanda.

>I was only pretending to be retarded
Take your circlejerk to /pol/ OP.

I don't know why people think that just because a writer has a character of their express an opinion or has social issues in their work it means they believe or endorse that.

More so with the meme posting with the picture. These kiddies just want attention

Because outcry culture demands sacrifices

>The Moon, like most gods, is just another uppity bitch
Bitchy way of putting it. The gods just never care for humans. Wanda was born male so for most(humans and gods) she was male. The ones that knew her and didn't just take things at face value do not agree.

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That the Endless are above any other gods because Death sees Wanda as Wanda

MAN'S DESTINY IS NOT BOUND BY ANCIENT GODS THEY HAVE LEFT BEHIND

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The Moon is treated like a capricious awful asshole who's in the wrong is why.

it's a god, not God

>the messiah trans characters we get now
Hahaha what?

BUT NOT RIGHT THERE ON THAT PAGE YOU INCEL NAZI PIECE OF SHIT I WANT TO LOWER YOU SLOWLY INTO ACID AND LAUGH AND LAUGH DEATH TO ALL CIS SCUM AND ALL SELF HATERS KILL YOURSELVES OR EACH OTHER I DON’T CARE AS LONG AS YOU DIE PEACE OUT UWU

>gaiman gods are pricks
WOWEEEEEEEEE WHO WOULD HAVE THOUGHTTTT

The "gods" were obviously in the wrong

Is this the "her soul is female" bit? Because not to take the piss that looks like a dream from a characters perspective, not an objective or unbiased view of her soul.

Dreams aren't just dreams in Sandman.

>The "gods" were obviously in the wrong
They are not, but it's IRRELEVANT. That's the point. Who gives a shit about what the moon thinks? And why would you get triggered like a retard about that?, If you are a tranny the opinions of others shouldn't be important and seeking aproval of others after you butchered your body and took hormones is just dumb, when your identity is based on self-perception it makes no sense to get mad when someone doens't agree with you.

>reality is what I want to be because I want it
Difficult to respect.

Quite right. But they're still subjective though?

I'm just saying her dreaming of her dead friend being a girl and the comic showing us the dead friend standing next to death by the grave are different things. There is room for interpretation.

>They are not,
They were being assholes though. I wasn't talking about factually wrong

Not necessarily. Barbie had a connection with Dream, it's entirely possible Dream sent that dream as a message.

No, a dream where Death appears accurately (and character has not met her in person before( is not something cooked up by the imagination. Besides, Dream is personally involved in their business

ONE MORE GOD REJECTED

This was clearly the work of Dream. He's a bit of a sap about stuff like this and Death is cool enough to go along with it.

>literally "IT'S MA'AM!"
Loving every laugh

Ah, very fair points. So yeah, very likely real then.

100%, probably the reason why it existed in the first place.

I don’t think many people hate trannies.

>Consider them hilarious?
Yes
>Consider them creepy?
Yes
>Consider them annoying?
Yes
>Hate?
No.

Most anti-trannies are just baffled and exasperated by the fact that obviously deranged people are walking around free and people WHO KNOW BETTER are choosing to play along with their delusions.

Sounds like hate transsexuals to me.

Welp, guess I hate schizophrenics then too

You can't write trans characters with any flaws nowadays

>there's nothing camp about her
>basically wearing a Bo Peep costume

Nobody is "in the wrong" dumb capeshitter.

>trannies can only find happiness in the sweet embrace of death.
Probably not what Gaiman was going for, I think it's more >wouldn't it be nice if everyone really could be exactly the person they wanted to be, it's a shame that's not physically possible
but either way he'd probably get crucified for this today. Not that those sorts don't already find him "problematic" for his support of the CBLDF and lolicons.

I really wouldn't put it pass you, you seem like the type who dehumanizes people just cause they're different.

Probably.

>There is room for interpretation.
Sure, but the actual point was that she was a girl to Barbie. A lot of people seem to not get it. It doesnt matter if people that don't understand you dont respect your life decisions, find the people that will respect and cherish you until death and beyond. You can look at it and interpret it as you want, as a reader, but for Barbie there was only Wanda.

Not like Death will bitch about what you're wearing. She's too chill for that.

Non-sequitor. The mentally ill should be studied and pitied.
See above

Reality is what you believe it to be because our perception is the only medium through which we can observe reality.

There is an external reality otherwise people wouldn't ever be wrong about anything.

"Hate" is the meme the Left uses to advertise. Any dissent is "hate" and "fear" (phobia) therefore inherently unreasonable and deserving of being dismissed with contempt. It's a scam.

Reality is a shared experience. Consider the fact that eye and ear doctors exist. If other peoples observations being different from yours didn't matter, how would you ever know when the instruments you're observing with are malfunctioning?

That's not what a non-sequitur is.

Thank you. This is very much my thinking as well. I feel we're supposed to take a level of subjectivity to it, which is why it was shown as a dream, not just straight Wanda's ghost and Death next to the grave or something.

>the left
Shut up retard.

a very big theme in Sandman is that dreams are more true that reality.

Bullshit

A lot of co seems to so had this and the Doll's house. Maybe I'm just a weirdo who.likes all.the story arcs. Including the Kindly Ones.

Well you can, but prepare for the backlash from people who get their sense of moral outrage from reading and regurgitating tvtropes.

People would shit all over this story for being an example of "bury your gays" for a start. I wish I didn't have this fucking knowledge, but these people are so fucking predictable.

she has a penis lol

Not very convincing, I'm afraid.

Honestly I think you would accept a transsexual character unless they were being treated as a degenerate.

There isn't if you'd read the fucking comic before posting this nonsense

Before I reply, did you mean would or wouldn't? That's kind of important.

She appears as a woman to the MC as (literally) Death takes her.

Ni. And I hope you're baiting.

>I like how
Three words in and I know you are really mad as fuck LMAO

Dreams explicitly shape reality

You're talking about a comic about the personification of dreams and stories and the importance of them.

Hasn't Gaiman expressed regret/walked this issue back in interviews recently?

Calm down, stop stifling discussion because it hurts your feelings.

he said he wouldn't do it the same way if he wrote the story today, but he stands by it

Ah, fair enough. Makes sense to be fair.

Reality is nothing more than a series of perceptions resulting from stimuli interacting with receptors

Hate is discrimination. It doesn't literally mean 'I am angry. Angry about trannys'.

You're insane if you think Sandman or Neil Gaiman in general is about telling you how to feel about something. He explicitly leaves things out so YOU fill in the blanks by using your... imagination.

That Gods can stuff shit up their ass and she knows what she is. Plain as day.

I'm having real doubts you even read Sandman now.

I feel the same way about you.

Neil Gaiman writes the gods as flawed deities that are more or less human just with magic and immortality,

You aren't suppose to take there word as law and people miss the point with this story arc all the time, just because a moon goddess doesn't say she's not a woman doesn't mean it's true

There's nothing ambiguous about this situation here. The dream Barbie is having about Wanda is a true dream and that's Why Death is there. Barbie have no reason to dream about Death because she has no idea who she is.>Wanda is with a woman I don't know

Wake the fuck up

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it's good because there is a dialogue of ideologies, looks like new writers don't bother challenging their own beliefs, which is sad because good fiction does just that and not a medium to shove your shit politics

Also, anyone who thinks something directly connected to the Three Ladies can be correct in any way but "this is reality as I deem it and I will destroy you if you disagree" hasn't read enough Sandman. The whole point of it is that the Moon is harsh, uncaring, and judgemental for no reason other than because That's How It Is.

People just don't want to tell another story of a trans person being treated like garbage by everyone, there's already an endless amount of books and films like that. People make comics thinking things like "wouldn't it be cool if there was a guy who could fly and shoot lasers out of his face" and people also make comics thinking "wouldn't it be cool if x group wasn't hated"

TERFs are fucking wild

>that looks like a dream from a characters perspective

That just by sheer accurately happens to feature Death of the Endless accompanying Wanda? In a comic book centered around the significance of Dreams and features the Lord of Dreams as a central figure? Yeah, sure, it's a dream and doesn't mean anything. Moron.

You miss the point fundamentally. What Barbie sees in her dream is what she's seen all her life. It's not about going into someone's dream and projection upon them what you want them to see. The form Wanda has in the dream is the form Barbie is seeing her with, not the form Wanda is projecting upon her. She's just there to say goodbye to her friend

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I doubt so. Death appeared as herself (instead of something more like Barbie would perceive), so Wanda’s image is “accurate” as well. It’s definitely how Wanda sees herself, same with Death

It's an interesting plot and a plot that is still real today. If you're tired of being treated like shit by bigots put that into a story dont just write cheap generic fanfic but the main character shares your sexual orientation because that's sooo different.

In 4channel is the same thing. This place is toxic and hateful.

Death is not just some dead girl. Furthermore, she is not someone Barbie knew. But she knew Wanda so she saw her as she's always seen her. It's kind of like how everyone points out that the Moon is just a dick. Sure, but it's also a scene depicting a God talking to a lowly human that she does not know and mocking the human just because lol silly humans. The moon, much like her parents didn't know Wanda so for them she's a man. Barbie knew Wanda and for her she's a woman.

Stories about trans people are almost never written by trans people.

That hilarious one where the protagonist runs around murdering people was.

the human race does not take orders from hunks of rock

>Good stories about trans people are almost never written by trans people
Fixed

>that one comic that is written by a tranny is hated by most other trannies because it make them out to be horrible people

>All this Yea Forumsmblr at obvious bait

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I don't know why so many people think hating something is the same actually continuous seething at something
If you literally dislike everything about something, you hate it. If you literally dislike everything about trans people then you hate trans people.

It's not about perception but who Wanda was at her core. The moon was wrong because it's was viewing it through a material lens of biology while Barbie saw the transcendent soul of wanda.

The moon was wrong because it didn't care. The gods are often portrayed as uncaring towards humans. Barbie was right because she knew Wanda, she didn't just look at her and judge her. Isnt that the whole point of the issue where her whole town saw her as Alvin but none of them actually knew her? They just looked at the surface, much like the moon.

Demographically speaking, that's because there's more good writers willing to write about trans people than trans people who are good writers. Trans people are still a VERY small demographic relative to cis people.

>chromosomes
Being born with more than 2 sex chromosomes happens more than people think.

seething

>The moon was wrong because it didn't care.
No, the moon was wrong because it associated the feminine with menstruation.

So she only looked at the surface.

The point was the moon/ old gods being a stand-in for society. The ending reveals their opinion to be invalid, because the endless are above gods

Wanda doesn't see her own funeral; Foxglove dreams that she saw Wanda as a woman saying goodbye with Death.

Which, this being Sandman, works as a validation of Wanda's womanhood but also as a "dreams can be whatever"

If you got y-chromosome you are a male, if you don't have y-Chromosome you are female. xxy are very rare. Less than 1% of 1% of male have it. xxx chromosomes are fun but have no greater effect.

The ancient magic of Hermes Trismegistus, the druidic understanding of the world and the mythical age doesn't operate under a LGBT paradigma. It's world is more primal and bound by blood.

trannies often hate themselves that is why they are not happy with what they are

>If you got y-chromosome you are a male, if you don't have y-Chromosome you are female
That's not true, genetically speaking, either.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XX_male_syndrome
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XY_gonadal_dysgenesis

Except the LGBTQ paradigm turned out to be right.

Sex and sexuality are as primal as it gets, the only thing new is that the majority doesn't kill the minority for being different anymore

Right to the trans person. Death gives no fucks and has nothing to do with how wanda appears in Barbies dream and the moon never treats wanda as female in life or death.

>Death gives no fucks and has nothing to do with how wanda appears in Barbies dream
Death of The endless is all about giving a fuck, she cares for people.

She was the one I liked the most. It sucked she died.

Death is always the best.

Yeah, but she's not human, she goes out of her way to explain she's not human and human gender issues aren't her responsibility or concern. She cares for wanda in the same way she cares for all people but she doesn't care if wanda is male people or female people. That's Wanda's business.

Trannys are gross.

But the fact that Wanda's soul is 100% female points to the moon being wrong. True in Death and Dreams means Wanda is a female and that the moon is just a bigot.

>the only thing new is that the majority doesn't kill the minority for being different anymore
somebody's never been to Saudi Arabia or Iran or Kenya or the Philippines or Poland or...

Or its just a delusion/dream of barbie. Thessalia also didn't saw Wanda as female. You aren't discriminating if you disagree with somebody. Only if you refuse to see a individual as individual you become a bigot.

Except that the moon is bound to honor the witches pact and doesn't honor Wanda. If we see Wanda's soul attempt the same spell and the moon activate I'd say you're 100% correct but by the time she's "revealed" Wanda is already past the point of the moon's covenant being relevant. It's a catch 22 that by the time Death's granted domain over Wanda and the ability to 'prove her female' Wanda is already past the point of being able to prove it to the moon.

>mfw some transexual on twitters tries coming after Gaiman and his wife for being transphobic
>mfw the transexuals they've known for decades and helped through jobs and fundraisers come to defend them and the person goes "omg I can't believe these famous people sent everyone to attack me!"
>mfw some casualgate retard comes to Gaiman to help him rail against the "political" comics with transexuals ruining everything
People are just incapable of understanding Sandman, it seems.

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you think those people read Sandman?

>the God still didnt acknowledge it
Of course a moon god brought about by the belief of stone-age women who put a whole lot of stock in their periods and its magical connection to the moon isn't going to acknowledge it. The gods are all flawed because of this same principle. Dream himself is flawed, he's a fucking asshole for a lot of the story. The only one who's continually shown as nice is Death, and Death got it right.

As an advocate of genuine freedom of expression, that's Gaimain's lot I'm afraid. To be attacked by the extremes on either side for not agreeing with their freedom of speech but no-one else's.

Death was also shown as an asshole in stories set before the modern era

The transexuals upset by the story probably did, they just read it when they were kids and didn't understand the point of the ending, only remembering the part that hurt them personally. But it's still shitty of them to not accept that they'd read it wrong when the author himself politely tells them they misunderstood the point, backed up by his transexual friends from that era who he got advice from when writing the story.

The dude who didn't even know Gaiman wrote a transexual character in the 90s and thought he'd be on his side obviously had no clue who Gaiman was, though.

Did she? I only remember her at most acting aloof before she started doing the whole live-a-day-as-a-mortal thing. But it's probably been over a decade since I last read it, so I might very well be misremembering. I've been waiting for my Absolute edition to get finished before I go through the whole story again.

>trans people are almost never written by trans people.
Because they kill themselves before writing it...right

>Wanda's soul is 100% female
Wanda's soul does not have a fucking gender, it's a soul.
Her appearing female makes her soul female just as much as her appearing clothed makes her soul be the soul of clothes.

>he doesn't think souls have genders
Agenders are not welcome in the afterlife.

that trannys are abominations of god

You're all abominations of god until you repent and accept Jesus into your hearts
t. Chick

Neal Gayman is a homosexual pedophile sham married to a bulldyke TERF, you do the math.

>Or its just a delusion/dream of barbie.
We're talking about the sandman right? The comic where Dream and Delirium are above the Gods in function, I would take a dream of Wanda being shown as a real women to mean she is a real women.

Your bait thread is dead. Going into over-bait mode isn't going to do anything.