I stumbled across a thread here in 2016 that changed my life and I hate you fuckers for it...

grant morrison is a psychotic wizard who has planted common thematic elements in fiction activated by readers in order to feed into the idea of a self-aware meta-universe acting in tandem with our own, both universes having real "physical" impacts on each other

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counterargument: cable

As the only non-Morrisonfag here, I'll explain in very simple terms.

It's meta-fiction wankery. The idea is that parts of the DC Universe 'extend' farther than the stories themselves. Ultra Comics is a superhero... comic book, that has the power of warding off the Gentry, a super villain entity team, by channeling the power of the people who read it (us)

Really, it's just Morrison going "hey these characters aren't fake, because you remember them and you know their lives; and the effects these characters have on the real world and the electrical signals in your brain that store these memories are real, therefore they are real!" Which is obviously bullshit and kinda ignores the whole point of meta-fiction.

and something about a tiger in the mirror

I'd summarize it as thus:

Fiction is reality in places where you can't see it happening.

In a way, it's about as much wankery as the people who keep insisting on the St. Elsewhere theory where because characters keep making cameos in other places, that all of the shows apparently share a universe. That because Grant Morrison wrote himself into some stories and made a bunch of memes about the number 52, that our universe is apparently connected to other universes by evoking the same symbology.

Max Landis, of all fucking people, perfectly summarized Hypercrisis with the Mxyzptlk page in American Alien. John Ostrander had a pretty great giggle at the concept too.

everything is canon for one world fiction is another reality.

Link to the archived thread pls.

which is only because he aped the first couple of pages of Ultracomics.

Science of Discworld did it better you comic book faggots.

NO DON'T!!!!

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So about the chibi universe. the fact they were under the influence by the hand/gentry. Is that some meta commentary on how brands that resort to going the frachise babies route as a sign of a creatively bankruptcy?

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Basically- hypercrisis is the idea that fiction has influence on reality.
I would argue that this book describes an early hypercrisis event- Superman starts fighting the KKK on his radio show. The writers use information from a real life reporter and put it in the show, the KKK sees a sharp decline in recruitment.

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>Be me.
>30ish Oldfag.
>here since 2000.
>I member when Yea Forums use to be all about spawn and Cheese Pizza.
>I member when Moot use to login and answer random anons´s retarded questions.
>I member Invasion board.
>I member SO many shit...
>I have folders full of stuff from this website.
>All tings considerated, not a bad way to lose time of my life.

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From the few Hypercrisis threads, I visited around the same time I remembered some of these lovely theories (If I'm wrong please correct me).
>The Bleed is a metaphor for how things BLEED into each other, works of fiction from Lovecraft, King and Serling can bleed into other works of fiction.
>Frames of a comic book bleeds into one another assuring continuity between scenes. The Speedforce represent motion in still images.
>Humans are in the most literal term GOD's towards comic book characters, they could view every scope of their multiverse but bound to only a few frames, they could project themselves into the comic book with no issue but they can't literally jump into the comic, they are every character in the world but they are still them etc.
>Hypertime is fiction, even if the multiverse (or "multiple omniverses") is "destroyed" because it could never erase the books we hold, they hold everything that has ever existed and will exist.

>COMICS WILL KILL YOU

>If the multiverse is real then there are infinite universes.
>If there are infinite universes then any story every written is or has occurred in one of those universe because every possible outcome to every action is occurring at once.
>If you have read a story about characters traveling through the multiverse it means they have.
>Fiction is real, and reality is fiction in some universe someone is reading a comic about you sitting down and reading this post.

If we write a complex enough story bridging the worlds the limitations of our universes access to technology and magic can be circumvented and we can be elevated to the realm of myth.

What do you call something that is real but fake?
How would you describe something that is fake but real?

can you post that page?

>How do you describe something that is "real" without the framework of "not fake"
>How do you describe something that is "fake" with the frame work of "not real"

If we accept the idea of infinity that nothing is either real or fake, I'd say that everything just is but thats not right either because its really just about whats relevant.

Infinity is a fun concept but we haven't bridged the gap to it so we're stuck in "finity". Reality is basically divided into what is infinite and finite.

Absolute fucking kino

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But Mxyzptlk, you already told us how to pronouce your name
youtu.be/uWuVMmL8Q_8

what if in another universe, the comic book people were reading us?

American Superman was pretty good tho. Is he ever gonna get around making that Batman sequel?

What is Mxy trying to say here?
I feel like an Ultra-Brainlet right now.

i'm happy for you because my reaction to it has always been "that's retarded"

Trying reading it again but this time real slowly.

In such cases, yes fiction influences reality, but only in the most literal, non-magical, non-extra-dimensional way. It's just an idea planted in people's heads, and fiction is but a medium to do so and the medium is incidental.

So far I have gathered
>Mxy is debating which one of us is more real.
>Says because he doesn’t have a physical body it doesn’t mean he is not real.
>Because he is a comic character he will continue to exist via being remembered unlike humans.
>Since Ideas are agency and humans need agency to exist we are technically slaves to them.
>Mxy won’t think of us because it would be impossible to do so since Mxy is created by a writer (in this case Landis) that will never know who we are.

Am I correct?
Dont agree with some of the things he said nor the main question but I think I get his point now.

TL;DR- the stories are writing themselves

>Since Ideas are agency and humans need agency to exist we are technically slaves to them.
No, ideas are thoughts and thoughts are a cognitive process dependent on a brain. We have ideas because we have a system of values, and both idess and humans are subservient to a system of values.

Exactly what I thought.
Just couldn’t put it into words.

Although, now that I think about it, a system of values is technically a cluster of ideas, I suppose. They're still dependant on a brsin and the brain's experiences in life (as well as basic instincts passed down genetically, and those are dependant on random mutations, which are just imperfect copies of cells), so ideas and humans are more slaves to time and events.

user...
Aren’t we all a bunch of things? I think information is beyond our brains I think there is more to it than chemicals telling us what to do. However, what that is I do not know.

>I think information is beyond our brains I think there is more to it than chemicals telling us what to do.
I disagree. Information is something humans and even sub-human animals wield, we're just really good at doing so. Until someone can prove or argue properly that information has a yet-unidentified characteristic that puts it above "facts provided or learned about something or someone" or "what is conveyed or represented by a particular arrangement or sequence of things", I am not inclined to think information is in any way supernatural.

Not supernatural and I agree with you. I think its all just maths and numbers. Information is very fluid though and subject to entropy, I Just think that there is more to it than just chemicals in my brain.
We evolved those to recieve information, information itself is the weird thing I can’t get.
I must admit though that this is all very pseudo-scientific and isn’t prover 100% correct.

No, it's not real. It's worse than that.
We are not real.

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>Mxy poster here
I think that every cluster of atoms has a purpose that it's designed to not know about, so when humans developed consciousness (which I think it's exclusive to humans the way we define it, there might be aliens but not 'intelligent life'), we started creating personal purposes for ourselves and others.
My point is that agency both can be a construct of humans or by a higher thing, but either way it doesn't make a difference so everyone should just calm down with that stuff.
Also ideas are only agency as long as there's humans to talk about them, lost civilizations like the Iberians might've developed culture but since we can't decipher it, it's practically meaningless.
wanted to jump into the pseudo intelectual philosophy talk for a second and give my grain of meaningless wall od text

I technically agree that information is fluid, but only in the sense that matter is constantly changing its shape (tree burnt to ash, ash absorbed into earth, earth sprouts plant, etc.). It is all, however, following a pattern, a pattern humanity has been charting for the last 100 000 years. Mind you, the more we chart the more we realize how vast it all is. I definitely believe we may reach a point where the pattern is beyond our comprehension, but only because we've yet to develop the tools/brains to break it down.

They'd have a blast with all the fucking bullshit that happens in my life.
Just today:
>flunk maths and will probably have to repeat the year again
>the exam takes so long I leave at around 4 and will get home at around 5
>miss the bus
>next one comes, there is no wallet
>come back to school, it's closed, I just have to hope my wallet is there tomorrow
>literally no money or way to get home

I Write 2 paragraphs of text to answer your question but I deleted it, no one will ever know what I wrote not even you. Wave functions dictate I do that.
But yeah we shouldn’t get to pseud about things since its all going to get weird.

Lost me at the part in which he says he is a God. In this metaphor we would presume that we, the humans, are Gods. We allow and individual such as Myz to exist by simply reading that he exists. He considers himself a god because he exists in the minds of million simultaneously, but he fails to realize that it is precisely our minds that actualize him.

He’s arguing that if you read the page you are basically his slave, like the gentry. You are forced to actualize him and if you don’t it doesn’t matter since others would do it for him.
To win you literally would have to not read the page and every other time mxy pops up which is impossible to do unless you forget about him.
At least that is what I think he is trying to argue.

Meh, your life was more interesting in Season 2: user's Sexual Years.

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Yeah I completely understand his argument if that is truly it, but he is objectively false metaphorically. Since we have the power to actualize, we control his existence. It doesn't matter whether or not we actually do or the fact that we most certainly will, the simple fact that we might not (although it's too late) makes us the masters of his existence.

The real question is about us: do our thoughts actualize the bizarre events that unfold around us or are they actualized outside of our comprehension? History is asinine: evil soliders trying to take over the world that use a Totenkopf as a symbol, plagues that annihilate continents, hordes or horse riders that almost take over the world, our mastery of the planet and ascent to the cosmos. Life is statistically improbable and these events unfolding in such a tongue in cheek manner would be deemed outright impossible by an outside observer.

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>Basically Wave Funtions (Maybe)
Everything happens for a reason user, were all information and encroaching entropy is the only thing that will stop us.

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Let me tell you my experience. I drank Kava tea with 2mg of Antivan. I felt the need to write for some reason and for 8 straight hours (not an exaggeration) I was typing on my computer and the story felt like it was writing itself. Then later I came and read it and though there was mistakes here and there the dialogue and plot was coherent and that’s what scared me.

Of all the infinite universes and subsequently Eaths, how many have been stuck in a 10000 year cycle of perpetual warfare? Some, obviously, but ours is truly bizarre

>tfw were one of the "there be mosters" universes

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Are you brian from that family guy episode?

>there are no heroes here, no gods. Only villains and men

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imagine reading a comic book about my life
all the readers would be like: "what the fuck is this story? nothing ever happens, the writer is a hack"

You're a side character. You appear in the background of a frame in which the protag exists at an interesting point in his life

No, I don’t watch TV shows. Only movies. Anyway my point or Morrison was probably high on many accounts too

I think Grant Morrison has been secretly trying to infect us with the Gentry for years

God, I've always both feared, and am relieved that I was a side character in someone else's story. I mean, nothing happens to me, but nothing bad happens to me. Let's just hope I dont have the life expectancy of an X-Men student

Can I have a quick rundown

Whatever you do, DO NOT open this spoiler.

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if you can dream coherently, why is this unbelievable? your brain writes unconscious stories all the time

What is Galactus doing behind Dr Manhattan?

With Morrison on Green Lantern, has there been any new theories?

Namor is actually a bit older than that.

>Namor the Sub-Mariner first appeared in April 1939 in the prototype for a planned giveaway comic titled Motion Picture Funnies Weekly, produced by the comic book packager Funnies Inc. The only eight known samples among those created to send to theater owners were discovered in the estate of the deceased publisher in 1974. When the giveaway idea fell through, creator Bill Everett used the character for Marvel Comics #1, the first comic book by Funnies, Inc. client Timely Comics, predecessor of Marvel Comics.

This makes him older than Batman.

....I was warned

When I got 'Ultra Comics' I read it with a mixture of excitement and fear and the realization that many others were doing the same thing at the same moment.

I was half-and-half hoping for a knock on the door.

Yeah... the Monitor and the Anti-Monitor and their brother, the World Forger, are the kids of the ultra-super-goddess Perpetua, who created the DC Multiverse as a weapon against her fellow ultra-super-deities.

Because that is apparently a good story idea.

>"Muh creator deity"
C'mon if you wanna go meta you should go the extra mile than that. It's just another, infinity+ debates all over again.
>Monitors
The most poorly conceived characters in Prime Earth, I mean good lord. How powerful are they supposed to be? And how do they relate to the post-crisis earth Monitors anyhow?

is the World Forger or Dark Multiverse, akin to the First Firmament?

if you could rewrite DC or Marvel's cosmology, or even if you were to write your own, how would it look like?

So are all universes mutually exclusive? Do other version of myself exist separate from me or am I, at once, all versions of myself across time and space?

>The most poorly conceived characters in Prime Earth, I mean good lord. How powerful are they supposed to be? And how do they relate to the post-crisis earth Monitors anyhow?

They are readers, motivated and quickened by stories - maybe they even need it to live.
How powerful they are is irrelevant. They can't, logically, interfere in the story since they aren't IN the story.
The one among them who did was basically destroyed by the experience. The implication being that the Monitor we knew was basically what was left of the 'original' Monitor that entered reality as a scout sent by the Overmonitor, and when he returned - I suppose when the Monitor died in COIE - he inspired the existence of a whole race of Monitors, who from that moment on had always existed.

>is the World Forger or Dark Multiverse, akin to the First Firmament?

Actually he's more like the Celestials. He doesn't so much make universes as that he hammers them into shape as they emerge from the Forge, IIRC.

>One concise Multiverse, Fiction. What people commonly assume are "Multiverses" are actually universes separated by thin filaments and frequencies and grouped together.

>This "Multi-Universes" (Example: Marvel and DC are separated by the thin filament known as copyright) could easily be bypassed via bleed portals (fan-fiction and whatnot).

>Because there is only one Multiverse, there is no infinity+ characters. They are all liars and can't prove that they are BEYOND the author nor can they realistically destroy the Multiverse since they can't destroy every single fictional story, at best they can go meta and "destroying" multi-universes.

>In a meta sense the DC Multi-Universe was created by the Overmonitor (The Canvas), The Writers (The one who created the imperfections within the Canvas) and The Reader (The Host who parasitically attach themselves to the imperfections).

>The story plays out almost the same as 52 monitors origin story but since they can't interfere directly they just "watched" the creation of the DC Multi-Universe.

>DC Multi-Universe chronologically start with the creation of "God", the Endless and the First World Gods. From then on the Multiverse took root and formed around the largest imperfection, The rock of eternity, which was home of the world forger (foreign entity Idk how to put him in the story) used to forge and mould baby universes, the First 52.

>However, he discovered that there were some universes that were "imperfect and unstable" so he moved locations to a "Mirror Multi-Universe" under the DC Multi-Universe where he and his companion The Dragon-god Barbatos destroyed the infinitely spawning universes to prevent the bloating of the DC Multi-Universe.

(1/?)

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Anyone here actually used a hypersigil in practise?
I made one in epic poem format to get over my autistic KHV ness.
But I have no idea how to get published and need mentors and editors.

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>In the meantime, the First World gods evolve and created the most spectacular civilization ever created outside of the newborn Multi-Universe. Many names were given to this land but Wotan, chief of the Gods called it "Urgrund". Their advanced technology and connection to "The Source" a mysterious source of energy is what allowed them to transcend into gods.

>All was peaceful until Ragnarok came. The God Wotan and his half-son Lokee clashed. Allying with the Ancient Primordial giants known as the "Quantum Mechanics", Lokee fought for the control over "The Source". During this titanic battle, "The Source Engine" which powered their whole civilization exploded killing most of the First Gods save a few. Ultimately, splitting Urgrund in two.

>However, this explosion did not totally destroy the First Gods, instead, the remnants and corpses of the old gods jettisoned into the Dreaming, seeding the Idea of Gods into the once barren and godless universes.

>As a result, new gods were born, all derivatives of the first ancient deities that existed outside of the Multi-Universe.

>The destruction of Urgrund also trapped Lokee and Wotan in an eternal deadlock, their fractured spirit destined to fight one another in each Universe. No matter how many times they died a spirit, a clone, an Avatar will always exist to battle one another. Eventually, their opposing spirits began shaping a new world from the remnants of Urgrund. This became known as New Genesis and Apokolips.

So what do you think guys? I know it needs improvement but I think it looks nice.

(2/?)

>can you spoonfeed me with pre-chewed food?
LMAO

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Doctor Manhattan is from the "Dark Age" of comics, and Galactus came from the 6th incarnation of the multiverse before being transformed into what he is now in the 7th.

the behelit

>>/trash/

post the rest faggot

Hypercrisis is real! REAL!

The DC multiverse is only there because we want it to be. It's a wave function or some shit. Because Drugs.

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Has anyone read Defenders The Best Defense? There's this guy called the Conductor, what do you all make of him and his relation to Hypercrisis? He shoves Worlds into his engine to make his train run.

Issue 3 of Green Lantern was pretty out there.

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It's the embodiment of non-free-will, as nothing do matters in the end because you will be swallowed back into the universe to fuel the eternal cycle. It works well with the "Marvel Machine Theory".

I like it

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Belief actualizes shit

>thinking

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So wait, we are the fluid in which the multiverse is suspended? Our universe actualizes them and gives them energy, but we are simply a medium? We are the personification of emotion and all multiverses feed off of us. They sacrifice themselves to make us more interested and whatnot because belief gives them substance. The question remains, are we subservient to them or they to us?

Or just read the dark tower books if you want meta circlejerking.

Could anyone explain the hypersigil to me?

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Sounds like the Gentry

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>It was a thread about the hypercrisis and I haven't been the same since. It's real, you know.

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Hey its Max Thunderstone from The Filth.
Not really sure what Grant meant by Max.
He comes across as kind of a bitter take.

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What was the point of the filth? Iv'e read it once and all i got out of it was nihilism.

Brainlet, Ideas are not just thoughts. Ideas drive you to do or think or act a thought can be as simple as "its sunny today", they are not the same thing though semantically they can be argued to be.

You do not control his existance your wrong, ideas can be infectious have you ever tried to actively forget something? You are his slave because by thinking about him you bring him alive, if we were the ones incontrol we could "unthink" him but we cannot.

>Ultra Comics got posted again and I'm a total brainlet about what it means again

Could someone please give me a rundown of what the fuck this all means

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It actually makes perfect sense if you have read 'The Invincibles'.

>Has anyone read Defenders The Best Defense?

I have. It was pretty heavy.

But how does Nebulon enter into the equation?

It ends on a hopeful note.

"Be careful what you put into your brain".

>We have functional memories
>Ideas are alive and control our actions.

Nnnno.

The actualization of being is that of thinking and specifically thought regarding ontology. By being a slave to ideas you in essence do not exist.

the same thing as every other thing grant morrison has ever written"
"lmao stories are real jargon jargon jargon"

Gooblegabble coocoo talk

Percisely, bravo

I’m to high for this shit right now sir

A sigil is a symbol that you use to use magic, with a lot of sigils, you can make a history out of them, a history that is has magic on it

It's an allegory for the life of Jesus and the redemption of sin.
It's pretty blatant, especially at the end where the main character dies, sees the universe from above, takes the Shekinah (the mother) out of the temple and spreads it into the world around, and then goes and heals the sick.

Pic related: the tearing of the temple curtains

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Simulatanously in time.
Greg Feely ascends above the world at the moment of his death.

But I don't get precisely where Grant was going with the Max Thunderstone stuff.

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>Morrison with hair
He wishes, lul

Trying to find 'the invincibles'.
>Google, no
>readcomiconline.to no
Do you have an author for that, user?

the invisibles you tourist brainlet
then again the guy you're replying to isn't any better

It's the laziest form of LARPing.

>real enough to hear my voice
what if the reader was born deaf and their brain never developed the ability to process auditory signals?

My life would be the most boring shit of all time.

Only cause you have to experience it the long way around. If we had to read a minute by minute summary of any characters daily life we'd probably also be bored out of our minds, even if their life was objectively more interesting than ours. Stories get to cut out all that chaff and only show the interesting and relevant parts. There's an engaging story somewhere in your life, it just doesn't necessarily happen in one continuous chunk.

I wish I had your optimism

You can if you want to. Perspective is a powerful tool, change how you look at something and it can become a whole new thing. Try and see connections or opportunities instead of rejections and risks, take the time to stop and appreciate something you like, do something you don't normally do just for the novelty, give people the benefit of the doubt.

I don't know anything about you user, save that you seem somewhat dissatisfied with your life, but I think you can do it. Because there is at least one person who has an extremely vested interest in making your life a good one, and there's also at least one nameless, faceless voice out there in the void rooting for you as well. That may not be worth a lot but I can promise you that I sincerely hope you find a life you can be happy with.

Threadly reminder that Ultra Comics #1 was released the day after 4u9525 crashed (and thus probably arrived in stores the same day).

Read The Multiversity as well for context on the Gentry. The thought-virus that Ultra comics is supposed to be saving us all from. Remember, Ultra Comics canonically originated in both a meta fictional and a literal sense from OUR Earth (Earth 33 iirc).

WHY WHY!!?? WHO IS THE MADMAN WHO MAKE THAT STORYTIME? GOD WHY

So how does DnA Star-Lord fit into all this again?

besides this excellent post, I believe is also has to do with how we need the bad in the world for the good to shine through. You know, duality and all that mumbo jumbo. I remember reading interviews around Grant was writing the Filth and he said we need all the dirty filth to improve our so called immune systems. Something to that effect.

>I have. It was pretty heavy.
I read it too but I didn't know what the fuck I was reading and that was with me reading all the single issues beforehand. That Dr. Strange one was so good though. I've been looking for good annotations for the Defenders. Do you all also read annotations? I like the ones that explain references and shit.

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The idea of the multiverse being weaponized or evolved by beings from beyond it is pretty much in line with the hypercrisis, since the DC Multiverse is supposed to affect the real world. That whole Perpetua bussiness is a very hypercrisis/like story but Snyder is somehow failing to actually make it feel as significant as it should be.

Stories can acquire a life of their own by outliving their creators and representing recurring themes and patterns.

what happen to that guy?

What are you talking about? What comic should I read to understand you, anons?

but the more charts we have, the more hyper the crisis is! you can't have a crisis be hyper without charts!

Can they adapt Ultra-man? In style of Deadpool, but really serious.

FIrst off he's Ultra Comics, not Ultraman. DC already has an Ultraman, and he's one of the multiverse's many Supermen.

I don't think it would work as well as a movie. Most likely it would be self-contained, and it doesn't work as well without being something that is hinted at in other stories. The bigger problem though is that his story is very much about comics and is best told in the comic medium itself. His name is Ultra Comics after all. Adapting it has one of the same problems putting Tales of the Black Freighter in the Watchmen film has.

I think Ultra Comics is best left to comics, and if for some reason anyone wants to do something with it in movies or television that they need to change his name and seriously change his story to serve as better commentary on that medium instead. It would be like using The Bleed in a DC movie or show. You can do it, but it makes a whole lot less sense than using it in comics does.

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Confusing isn't it?

are we one of the dark universes that people in better worlds tell their kids around the camp fire

or are we something bright darker places use to lull themselves to sleep.

it's all relative.

>Greg Feely ascends above the world at the moment of his death.

"The filth" are nanomachines, dummy. They are all tiny.

Sorry. I swear that I was joking.

I mean the post I was responding to mentions the comic by name several times.

>Snyder is somehow failing to actually make it feel as significant as it should

That's because the way he tells it is so goddamned mundane.

Perpetua is actually a big woman. Geez. The Anti-Monitor and the Monitor are her sons. Wowee.

He shed his disguise.

We are one of the bad ones.

Just think about the fact you live on a planet where the phrase "The hundred-year's war" is a thing.

I can say beyond any shadow of a doubt that there as not existed any form of hero on this planet since the ancient pagan deities of yore. Perhaps Jesus was one if you choose to believe in that, but we have, in essence, existed for the entirety of the last 3000 years without any benevolent intervention. Morality, for us, is confined solely to thought. If I were to guess, we are either an emotional filament that binds other universes together or we're one of the perverted ones

Page is like 30 years old, he had hair back then

Fuck. was that really four years ago?

I fukken love hypercrisis, bois.

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Fuck yes i love me some hyper crisis threads. Amyome here experience the 52 phenomenon?

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