Gentlemen. How do we fix DCEU Superman?

All of that can be easily ignored, honestly.

No one said reboot. But it's pretty clear WB wants to move on, just look at Aquaman. That Mera line you mentioned was so fast you could honestly miss it, and it's the only real reference to Justice League

JL Superman was the most likeable version of Superman. based whedon.

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The only problem is that he makes the entire Justice League look pathetic

Give Superman more feats from the comics

Act like the Snyder movies didn't happen, and make a Superman movie that acts like people already know Superman, have muh actual Lex Luthor posing a threat and have him impose his ideology against the Man of Steel, make it so Supes can't just save the world by punching real hard.

The thing about superman is he is supposed to be the ideal you aspire too. He has to want to help people, it isnt a burden, helping others genuinely makes him happy and content.

The problem is that's a boring ass movie.

what's so funny about truth justice and the american way? the movie
but make it good please

That isn't an immediate dealbreaker. You just need the rest of the league in more specialized roles.

The problem is that you're an uncreative fuck who can't think of ways for Superman to have an actual problem while still sticking to his character

have superman save the city instead of destroying the city.

bring back brandon routh superman.

make flash movie (zoom, at end of movie flash goes back to save mom). but in the time 'boom' we see 3 earths merge and flash comes out to a new world. his mom is still dead. then a figure hovers above him.
'wow, that was pretty fast. what's you're name?'
barry looks up and sees brandon routh superman.

come out with wonderwoman 84. keep aquaman.

You're living in a fucking dream world, bud.

Make an Injustice mOVIE

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go and stay go

Introducing the Injustice storyline will confuse the casual crowd who don't follow the comics or the games.

You make Man of Steel 2 and get the right director, and you keep Cavill, because he loves the fuck out of the character, understands what he represents, and did a decent job in the five minutes he was alive and sane in JL.

And because isn't an option without an expensive reboot of the entire universe (something they won't try, as there is no guarantee it would be any more successful on a second try), which is made doubly unlikely because none of the films have actually flopped except perhaps JL, which would have simply underperformed without all the reshoots.

Anons who keep REEEing for a reboot or to cancel the DCU need to be more realistic. It's making money. They won't do either because it would cost them what good will/fans they have, with no guarantee of a better result or new fans, and you don't throw good money after bad in business.

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It’s gonna be hard because Hacky Snyder has to blow the fucking load.

>it would cost them what good will/fans they have,
you act like that's a lot
>with no guarantee of a better result or new fans
the newere movies are already getting better results so i don't see why not

Give him the trunks ad the hair curl.
Also, it's fine to want to explore some serious topics with his character but don't forget that he still has to be Superman.

Snyder is good with fighting scenes and visuals

This will literally kill Superman

Something with Lex Luthor
Just get someone that looks and acts like the actual source material instead of a slightly more stable Mark Zuckerberg

>newere movies are already getting better results
You mean Aquaman and Aquaman? Shazam is looking hopeful, but we won't actually know until its out, and Wonder Woman did well in the middle of it all. Financially and amongst normies Suicide Skwad did amazing and BvS did respectable.

The kicker is that the suits are most likely scratching their heads over why Aquaman did so well. It was the Ant Man of the series. The least likely to do well.

>you act like that's a lot
Every movie except JL has made a profit. MoS is the least profitable on paper, until you read that they covered all advertising and production costs via product placement, so every cent WB recieved was profit. The average result of the DCEU movies is between 600-800mil. That means *someone* is going to see them. Plenty of someones, in fact.

You know how he was when he showed up at the end of Justice League? Just do a shitload more of that and pretend everything that happened before it, didn't.

They really need to try this, because it's really all anyone wants. If it bombs then it's likely just a case of the general audience being too cynical for Superman this era. But they should at least try with one movie left in his contract.

Cavill deserves it and so do the fans.

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Introduce Supergirl in Man of Steel 2

Have him catch that damn Joker!

>If it bombs then it's likely just a case of the general audience being too cynical for Superman this era.
Or the problem is Superman. The only two things Superfags can agree on is that powerlevels are important and Superman should be MAXIMUM, and that Superman is perfect and should like their ideal absent fathers. Everything else is met with rage and confusion.

For some insane reason they are giving her a movie of her own. Now, I wouldn't put it past them to make it Cavill's final contracted movie and have him there all the way as a mentor, testing the waters as to whether to do a MoS2 with him, but that really depends on how smart they are.

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Ignore the previous movies and start again, like Spider-Man

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Or that. And it's not really an issue you can get around easily, and may well make every movie they could every make about him, with any actor, divisive amongst fans.

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It's real, though. Superfags can't agree on what Superman should be like other than perfect and super-powerful, which is something the common audience really doesn't care about. So you've a bit of fans vs. casual audience going on. Critics only want more of Richard Donner's Superman, but you can keep on milking nostalgia forever as Superman Returns proved it. So WB is in a bit of tight spot in regards with Superman.

I mean, take the JL movie. They tried to give the Superman every fanboy and critic might ever want. The portrayal was praised by comic book folks and critics alike, but an audience survey proved that the majority of the audience couldn't give a crap about the movie Superman or Batman. They were placed last in the poll. The ones dominating the poll were Aquaman, Wonder Woman, and the Flash, with the Flash being the highest. The movie despite being praised sold badly. Worse than any previous DCEU movie.

So what is the message here for WB? That Superman is right now a headache. That's probably why they're testing the waters with Supergirl. Nobody have any real feelings about Supergirl. You have much more freedom in how to sell her. Superman will probably be relegated as cameos everywhere. Literally just him from the neck down, because apparently people only care about him as a symbol, not as a character.

Well, DC agrees with that too, generally speaking. They have a hardon for making him evil or different in Elseworlds, but the mainline Superman is always a paragon who is either right or proven right all along, and has the Batman seal of approval.

They could go the Captain America route with him where he *is* generally right, but also out of touch due to his hick upbringing, and have drama stem from that. But then that would draw comparisons that would cause their own problems.

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>They could go the Captain America route with him where he *is* generally right, but also out of touch due to his hick upbringing,
Oh, i can already see a lot of fans and clickbait articles complaining about DC/WB trying to make fun of Midwestern people and its values, and trying to portray Superman's upbringing as a negative that needs to be questioned.

You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.. Injustice's Superman make perfect sense. Also all the other super heroes are op thanks to that super serum stuff

>Nobody have any real feelings about Supergirl. You have much more freedom in how to sell her.
Bruh, I feel you the rest of your post, but pretty much everythign Supergirl is a shitshow. Her own TV series couldn't be any more mired in divisive politics *and* had to be bolstered by the Bue Boyscout himself twice over it's time on screen, and by crossovers with Flash and Arrow. Hell, if it hadn't 'joined' the CW family (i.e. been adopted for tanking ratings) it would have never even gotten a second/third season.

Even with his problems Superman is a much safer bet. Just from a visual standpoint he matches the powerset more. And remember the beatings (even if they didn't actually damage him) he took across MoS and BvS? Now, do you think that a pretty blond girl in a short skirt could be put through the same in todays climate? Ever?

If any project is a risk it's Supergirl.

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But that might be less because of Supergirl, and more because of the show. But i don't know. Maybe you're right. Seriously, i don't know what i would do if i were in WB position. Milking Richard Donner's take didn't work. Trying to desconstruct him a la Christopher Nolan didn't work. Trying to present the "perfect" Superman didn't work. Might as well wait a few more years and introduce Superboy, Son of Superman. "Young Superman" seems to be the only thing that works.

Thank you for providing me the answer to the only question I had about CW's Supergirl. Superpantsu really are blue.

>"Young Superman" seems to be the only thing that works.
So Smallville?

Yeah. Pretty much. Ironically enough "Young Superman" is pretty much what Shazam movie is like.

Honestly, they just need to keep Cavill around, and keep Superman in reserve. He is at his best when he is saving the day, or fistfighting Darkseid, and not when you are trying to tell a two-hour story with him as the focal point. I would love the hell out of a movie with JL Superman just generally being great saving the day, but it would apparantly bore general audiences outside the MoS fight scenes.

Some of the best Superman stories and scenes are in books he isn't even the main focus of. His confronting the wizard in Shazam: First Thunder. Making it rain in the No Mans Land arc of Batman. Little moments where he gets to shine. Then again, comic Superman doesn't operate on a contracted number of appearances and a massive sum for them.

The main problem with Superman in JL for the casual audience, i think, is that he just shows up to upstage all the characters the movie previously focused on. Specially the Flash with those dick measuring scenes between them. Since the Flash was apparently the favorite, i think that might have rubbed them off badly.

>Trying to present the "perfect" Superman didn't work.
I think what frustrates most of us who can see the potential in Cavill and this Superman is that we only got to see that guy for around three minutes of actual screentime, including his time with Lois on the farm, and then the movie was over. We won't actually know if the audience can accept him unless they give him more screentime. And they have been radio silent on that since we heard about the contract negotiations. Even if those fell through, he supposedly has one film left, which makes more and more sense as being a supporting/secondary-main character in Supergirl.

You could argue showing him without it being Cavill in Shazam was a bad sign, but in fact, he didn't need to be there at all. Or they could have made it Cavill's last appearance, fulfilling his contract, and kicked him to the curb. The fact they had Superman turn up at all is in my eyes a hopeful sign. But I'm also an optimist just like Superman would want!

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You seem to be reading too far into it. In my cinema at least Superman kicking the shit out of Steppenwolf was well recieved and people laughed at the interactions with Flash.

>You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain
>Look mommy I posted it again! It’s so deeeeep :)
You’re one of those retards who unironically identifies as the Joker aren’t you?

I'm talking about Superman and Batman being the least favorites. I know i have heard a lot of complaints about Superman overpowering Wonder Woman before,at the very least.

What's so bad about Snyder's vision? He had planned a whole arc with the Justice League but WB kept fucking his vision, why do you hate the poor guy so much?

You’re one of those retards who unironically dislike Injustice because it makes Supes look bad?

>without an expensive reboot of the entire universe
Why? Patty and Wan both ignored the parts they didn't want and no one except the Snyder autists cared. They're basically rebooting the Suicide Squad with stuff like replacing Deadshot's actor. Hell the X-Men movies had terrible continuity but no one cared. Just do a brand new Superman movie with a brand new actor but don't make it a full on origin movie again. If it's successful and people like it then start tying it into the larger universe. 99% of people won't give a fuck.

>It's making money.
Sure, but not Superman which is what this thread is about. If WB were happy with how Superman was performing then they'd have a sequel ready to go.

>it would cost them what good will/fans they have
kek. No one gives a shit about the Snyder fags, they can screech all day long but they're never getting their Snyder cut, the average fan doesn't have an attachment to Cavill as Superman since he hasn't been in a good movie. In fact I'd say more people dislike than like him. Now, I place most of the blame for that on Snyder for giving Cavill shit materiel, he COULD have been a great Superman, but he wasn't, and at the moment he has too much baggage since he was in those shitty hated movies. Just recast and move on, if the new movies are good then people won't care.

Well for one thing, it's dead

>They're basically rebooting the Suicide Squad with stuff like replacing Deadshot's actor
So Iron Man 2 was a reboot because they replaced Rhodes' actor?

>Trying to present the "perfect" Superman didn't work.
People do understand that you don't have to present him as either extreme right? The only options aren't perfect boyscout or super dark joyless monster. Pick up virtually any post-Crisis Supes comic to see the happy medium.

>not when you are trying to tell a two-hour story with him as the focal point.
You absolute fucking retard. The WHOLE fucking problem with DCEU Superman is that he does not get ANY fucking screen time to develop as a character, in addition to Snyder’s edgelord tendencies. There are 80 fucking years worth of stories with Superman as the star. The fact that you are blaming the CHARACTER instead of Snyder’s incompetence is just mind blowing
It was fucking shit and no one wanted to see his arc because no one liked his characters because they were all unlikeable assholes? That clear things up for you?

>No one gives a shit about the Snyder fags
>implications
I don't give a shit about Snyder, but I like Cavill, and don't think there are many actors that fit the role as well. Making it a snyderfag issue is a mistake.

Killing Zod was a bad idea
Introducing some characters before their solo movie (Cyborg, Flash etc...) release was a very bad idea. How am i supposed to care about them?
Stepping wolf as the 1st Justice league vilain? Wtf
Making a Batman VS superman movie while introducing Doomsday in it was suicide

So that’s a yes then? Fuck off back to Twitter dumbfuck. Come back when you’re old enough to understand the “real world” is nowhere near as edgy as your retarded idol Zaddy claims it is.

You didn't explain why you think it's bad

Well for one thing, being dead is bad.

The problem is that Superman in JL wasn't even a character. He felt more like a parody. He easily cleaned the clock against the combined JL and the main villain Steppenwolf. He saved people better than the Flash - in an almost comical way. And he just giggled while doing it all as if it was all an entertaining joke to him. A joke that before was being treated as a serious and ominous end of the world scenario. This can please his fans, but this Superman almost felt like a LEGO version of the character shoehorned into a serious movie. That shit would need to be toned down considerably.

I get not liking the conflicted and mostly ineffectual Superman from MoS and BvS, but you can't go into the other extreme as a reaction. There needs to be a balance. Superman literary made the Justice League pointless in a movie about the Justice League. Apparently these heroes didn't need to really COME TOGETHER after all, all that was needed was for Batman, Cyborg, and the Flash to resurrect Superman. Everybody else could have gone home.

Injustice is fucking terrible. It’s poorly written and the only ones who enjoy it are retards who jerk off to Harley Quinn. Yea Forums enjoys it because it’s so retarded it’s entertaining. You need to get some fucking taste.

>It was fucking shit and no one wanted to see his arc because no one liked his characters because they were all unlikeable assholes? That clear things up for you?
no? I want your explanation as to why it was bad, saying it was shit without arguments is retarded
>inb4: hurr durr explain why it was good

The producers have literally said it's a reboot. Plus using that argument they could just replace Cavill as Superman and it wouldn't be a reboot.

I've seen nothing on screen besides a few bits in Justice League that show me he's a good Superman. Plus he's getting on in years now, especially by the time a potential MoS 2 could come out and like I said, the GA doesn't give a shit about his Superman so it's not like there'd be an insane backlash except from Snyder fags.

>Pick up virtually any post-Crisis Supes comic to see the happy medium.
See, now tons of Superman fans are angry because not all of them like post-CoIE Superman.

If you really don't know what was so bad about his vision by now then you haven't been paying attention.

Zack Snyder wanted to introduce solo movies, but Hamada was against.

The Silver Age fanboys are an absolutely tiny group though. Even smaller than the diehard Snyder fans. Besides, post-Crisis Supes is still way closer to SA than Snyder's one.

Cringe

Snyder was the dumbass who had Superman kick the shit out of the JL on his return. Snyder always intended Superman to be the villain. A future director could just tone down his power levels.

Snyder's and Post-CoIE Superman are very close, user. The fact that fanboys and critics couldn't see that is pretty telling.

>You absolute fucking retard.
Oh calm down you hothead. I agree with you 100%. I also think modern audiences are idiots still in love with edgy faggots or have to have their capeshit be ironic and funny if it tries to be earnest or serious. Deadpool being the unholy lovechild of all those elements.

It's less I think something is wrong with Superman than that I think audiences today are self important degenerates who hate anything that makes them question whether they could be doing better or be better.

>If it bombs then it's likely just a case of the general audience being too cynical for Superman this era.
I think the opposite is the case. Superman in this universe is too cynical for this audience.

That was apparently Geoff Johns. The original script was written by Chris Terio and Geoff Johns, but because the two were fight so much over the script Joss Whedon was brought along to rewrite it pronto. The JL fight was mostly Johns, apparently.

You know, blaming the whole fucking world for Superman failure as a character is pretty funny. This is not Jesus Christ we are talking about. It's Superman. A comic book character.

The problem is that the foundations for this Superman are fucked it thanks to that edgelord faggot Snyder, either you would have to completely ignore what happened before or reboot

>Introducing some characters before their solo movie (Cyborg, Flash etc...) release was a very bad idea. How am i supposed to care about them?
This is a flawed argument that has only existed since the MCU. Films have been getting made for nearly a century where characters were introduced that you were supposed to get attached to during the movie. Not everything has to start with a fucking origin story. The MCU way worked for them. But it isn't the only way.

Literally all you need to do is just present a Superman who's warm and friendly to the general public, isn't overly serious and cynical, but knows when to get serious when necessary, and even has a bit of a sense of humor, especially when he's Clark Kent or flirting with Lois. People overcomplicate this shit and act like Superman can't be human.

MCU Cap is a great example of Superman for example. Just do something similar.

TO be fair Superman needed a win after the shit that was BVS

But what's his struggle? That's when the problem starts. What you describe is literally any random ass generic character.

>Snyder's and Post-CoIE Superman are very close, user.
Not in the slightest. Even New-52 Superbro is closer to Silver Age Supes than to Snyder's.

Batman being able to murder people and then stop means there is no reason why he can’t just kill the Joker and then stop.
WW “walking away from humanity” is retarded and I’m glad Patty is ignoring that.
Pa Kent telling his son maybe it’s ok to let kids die is fucking retarded. Snyder told all of us that Superman would never kill again after Zod and then he fucking has him kill again in BvS. Eisenberg Lex is fucking terrible. Adams and Cavill have no chemistry together yet we’re told Lois is the fucking “key” to Superman’s heart. Lois BEING the “key” to Superman is a fucking garbage concept. Doomsday looked like shit.

Zack Snyder is a hack.

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>Snyder's and Post-CoIE Superman are very close, user. The fact that fanboys and critics couldn't see that is pretty telling.
Not really. I'd say Snyder's more akin to Earth One Supes. He's only similar superficially to post-Crisis Supes. Remember, even in Byrne's MoS, he was able to smile, be positive, and happy all the time.

>That was apparently Geoff Johns.
Bullshit. The scenes where Superman fights the League were Snyder scenes and Snyder/Terrio wanted to have Superman go evil at the end of Zaddy’s retarded arc.
Is it Superman the audience rejected or Zack Snyder’s Superman they rejected? I’m pretty sure it’s the latter. A good Superman film would still do well.

You can literally make movies where the main character doesn’t change at all. There was a video on YouTube about this don’t remember he name though.

To be fair, Superman came out looking worse in that fight than he did in BvS. Specially when he tackled Batman like a ragged doll and taunted him asking if he bled. Of-fucking-course Batman bleed. He's human. That was the whole point of Batman wondering if Superman bled in BvS. Batman was essentially questioning if Superman was human. Humans bleed. That was a stupid and terrible comeback to use.

Does any generic ass character have to deal with the struggle of being able to save the entire planet and become a symbol of hope and the best that we can be while at the same time not cracking under the pressure? Having to deal with a ton of bullshit from genuinely evil people or beings yet at the same time, choosing to believe that overall, we're good and that there's good in everyone?

I like how you are carefully sidestepping his interactions with Lois and his mother, his self depreciating "wasn't because you liked me" to Superman, and his back and forth with Cyborg.

He faced his destiny in BvS, and when he came back, he finds a world that is lesser for his absence. People still remember him and appreciate what he did; answering the questions about whether he should be Superman that ran through BvS. He is also fighting a shitter that is shade compared to the Kryptonians. It might bother you, but it was loyal to his MoS feats.

You Snyderoos are adorable
>When at first everyone thinks Snyder didn’t want to do solos
>OMG NOT EVERY FUCKING CHARACTER NEEDS SOLOS LET DC BE DC AND NOT MARVEL
>Turns Out Snyder might have supported solos
>OMG FUCKING WB SABATOGING ZADDY SEE HE WANTED TO BUILD UP PROPERLY BUT WB WOULDN’T LET HIM
If a few months from now Snyder says he didn’t want to do solos you fanboys would go back to saying solos are a stupid idea. You just can’t accept Snyder fucked up.

>Is it Superman the audience rejected or Zack Snyder’s Superman they rejected? I’m pretty sure it’s the latter. A good Superman film would still do well.
Man, there are seriously people ITT who are as dumb as WB executives, try to play armchair CEO, and try to say that the character of Superman just can't work despite literally every fucking superhero getting a well-received movie these days,despite Superman being better than almost all of them.

Batman stopped killing because he promised Superman he'd do better.
How would you explain people not being aware of Wonder Woman otherwise? Or Superman inspiring Wonder Woman into becoming a hero again?
Pa Kent wasn't serious when he said that "maybe" and anyone can tell. Superman didn't kill that African warlord in BvS. He doesn't kill anyone directly other than Doomsday.
Eisenberg Lex was a nice new take on the character.

Hm. Might want to look at the meanings of El, what the House of El actually is, and the messianic themes around Superman. Including the shit that happens to people who play him and actors that surround him.

The problem isn't Superman, it's the expectations placed upon the character.

>Does any generic ass character have to deal with the struggle of being able to save the entire planet and become a symbol of hope and the best that we can be while at the same time not cracking under the pressure?
Audiences weren't a fan of such exploration.

>I’m glad Patty is ignoring that.
>Diana proceeds to only engage in small scale issues and does indeed hide away from the world at large til JL
Okay user.

This is what they should do but they're going ahead with because WB are morons.

Nah, it's the retards who decided to make Superman a depressed, morose retard and destroyed his entire mythos for the sake of "realism", and then act like the character can't be successful because no one liked this version of Superman.

Explain to me why Superman Returns wasn't a success then.

>stopped killing because he promised Superman he'd do better.
He didn’t stop killing you retard. He killed those thugs to save MARTHA. He killed Parademons.
>Or Superman inspiring Wonder Woman into becoming a hero again?
The fuck did he do that was in any way inspirational? And why the fuck does WW need to be inspired by Superman? And why the fuck can’t people be aware of WW? The very foundations of the Snyderverse WW were shit only saved by Patty going out of her way to ignore them.
>Kent wasn't serious
>I was only pretending to be retarded!
>He doesn't kill anyone directly other than Doomsday.
Why the FUCK did he use Doomsday? How about a fucking villain Superman DOESN’T have to kill to see that no-kill rule and show some fucking inspiration?
>Eisenberg Lex was a nice new take on the character.
No it wasn’t.

They can't actually reboot because that would be admitting they did something wrong but they are just gonna pretend the plot points in those movies didn't happen and will include little winks for the few Snyderfags out there

Well, it's going to be difficult, but their only real choices are scrap the entire DCEU or 'fix' Cavill's Supes. They can't realistically recast both Batman and Superman, played by the actors they are, within the same couple of years.

The MCU was careful to avoid that pitfall outside a few supporting characters and black Iron Man.

Superman is failing to meet expectations since his second movie. Even the DCAU Superman is hated by a large set of his fans. Honestly, i think the only well-received Superman in the last decades was Smaville. Fucking Smallville. I have never seen anyone say anything bad about it.

>Let's make a sequel to the Donner movies 20-30 years later while at the same time, ignoring the last 2 Superman movies from that era, confusing audiences, while at the same time, confusing them even more by having a weird narrative where he somehow went to what was left of Krypton and back, became estranged from Lois in the process, and apparently had a superkid with her before he left
GEE WHAT POSSIBLY COULD'VE WENT WRONG

>>Diana proceeds to only engage in small scale issues and does indeed hide away from the world at large til JL
>Walking around in the public in armor is “hiding away”
How delusional can you Snyderoos be?
Deadbeat Dad Superman is a dumb take and it needed more action. Also they should’ve picked someone other than Lex to fight.

>Even the DCAU Superman is hated by a large set of his fans
Who the fuck dislikes DCAU Superman?

People liked the Death of Superman and Reign of the Supermen movies.

>Even the DCAU Superman is hated by a large set of his fans
Uh no? What are you talking about?

The only thing people "hate" is how nerfed he can be in JL and that's the writers' fault than anything. DCAU Supes' character is liked

He stopped killing after Superman's death, you retard. Sorry, but you called me one first. Rude.
Superman is supposed to be the first public superhero. That's Superman 101. The universe has to revolve around Superman. He's the star. Superman was also plenty heroic in BvS. He watered all the bullshit and sacrificed his life to the benefit of everyone.
The "maybe" line was given in a super conflicted way. Try to better read people's emotions. Kevin Costner is a good actor.
Because Doomsday represented Superman's regrets and failures.

>They can't realistically recast both Batman and Superman
Sure they can. That’s literally what they’re doing. Batman is getting recast and down the road Superman will too. Cavill is out.

The climax of the movie is "Superman fights an island"

Not a great selling point

>How delusional can you Snyderoos be?
Man, you really can't think outside your memes and definitions, can you? I don't give two shits about Snyder. I simply look at the facts. On one hand we have Patty and a politics piece about how Wonder Woman wouldn't hide away blah blah. Then, we have Wonder Woman end with her hearbroken, and leaping into the night IN THE MODERN DAY after messaging Bruce, and JL where she admits to fucking hiding away. Since then we have had nothing but out of context snaps from WW2.

You've been arguing so long it's twisted your thinking. Everything DCEU is 'Snyderfags'.

Superman fans.
Not everyone.
Try to argue with a Superman in any forum outside this place. You'll find how much DCAU Superman is generally dislike by true-hard Superman fans.

>They can't realistically recast both Batman and Superman
Well they've already recast Batman AND BEFORE YOU SAY "it's in the past", you damn well know Affleck isn't coming back.

I can't see Cavill staying in Superman's role. When Thor TDW needed Evans for a quick second cameo, he was there. Shazam has a second cameo too but it had him from the neck down and you know why.

I fucking didn't. Terrible animated movies in the same vein of all the previous ones based on the New 52.

This is some pretty effective bait here. Especially pretending like people hate DCAU Supes but not Smallville.

Most places I've been at, including CBR, Gamefaqs, Newsarama, etc. have largely agreed that the former was great and the latter was shit.

>Batman is getting recast
True

> and down the road Superman will too. Cavill is out.
Assumption based on nothing but silence and a cameo that could be a good sign for Cavill. It was a cameo that didn't need to happen. It could mean anything from 'we are recasting' to 'no worries negotiations are ongoing' to 'we have no fucking clue'.

>Try to argue with a Superman in any forum outside this place.
Have you?

>it had him from the neck down and you know why.
That's the thing. *We* don't know why. It could be anything from him being out to his agent made him sit it out while negotiations are ongoing. He's stated more than once he wants to continue being Superman and the cameo shows the DCEU isn't distancing itself from Superman. I choose to be hopeful.

>Not everyone
So? Not everyone liked Aquaman. Not everyone like the Arkham games. Not everyone liked the Reeves Superman films. The goal isn’t to make everyone happy.

Sorry, but every time i talk about DCAU some Superman fan comes out of the woods to shit-talk about the cartoons. They hate how much Superman jobbed to enemies, how weak Superman was to electric, how much of a hot-head Superman was, how wrong Superman constantly was, how Superman was always upstaged by Batman, how Superman wasn't banging Wonder Woman, how Superman was a pushover for Lois, how Superman was cucked by Batman, how Superman was made into a villain as a series finale, how Superman didn't impregnate Lashina like it was originally planned, how Superman was mind-controlled by Starro, and so on and so forth.

will I ever be loved?

How the fuck is it a “good sign” for Cavill? It’s the exact fucking opposite. It shows they’re willing to move on from him if they have to. Also THR and Variety have a good record with DC stuff and they say Cavill is out.

Superman can't make excuses. Anyone else can blame their failures on others, or lacking the means to do the right thing. Our flaws can be lived with because we don't usually have the power to fuck up more than a handful of lives.
Superman has no easy out; when the question of "can" is certain, the uncertainty "should", "ought", and "why" become much more important.
A good Superman conflict isn't what he CAN do, it is about what he SHOULD do and WHY.

>*We* don't know why.
*We" do, it's just you don't want to admit it.

>He's stated more than once he wants to continue being Superman
Well he's not gonna say he's not gonna be Superman, that would be damaging. Affleck said the same shit back then. Hell, they still tried to pretend he was directing the movie up until they announced Reeves

And I think you're full of shit, because one fucking constant I've ever seen from Superman fans has been that people absolutely loved DCAU Supes.

I think you're (intentionally) misunderstanding people's issues they might have had with him for genuine dislike.

Time will tell user. You see one thing and I see another. Neither of us can know until a clear public statement is made or another guy steps into the suit.

BvS had Superman owning up to his failures and the majority of people disliked the movie.

I honestly don't think it's that cut and dry, and I would honestly accept it if there was more clarity. I'm not even particularly invested in Yea Forums or Yea Forums at the moment so it's not like I have anything riding on it.

Affleck is a completely different situation. He's clearly self destructing and there is more to the story. Wheras Cavill has made several videos, statements, and generally stayed upbeat and reassuring.

Again, when we get an official statement or some other actor is annouced to replace him in the next DCEU film, sure, but until then I choose to remain open minded.

>They hate how much Superman jobbed to enemies,
Meh I kinda agree but it wasn’t a major problem for me
>how weak Superman was to electric,
Those people are retarded that’s a tradition going back to Fleschier
>how much of a hot-head Superman was,
I like that part, DCAU Supes wasn’t a meek bitch
>how wrong Superman constantly was,
When it was Luthor playing him it was fine that’s Luthor’s schtick
>how Superman was always upstaged by Batman,
First one I agree with, fuck Timm and Dini. Batman telling Superman to “get over his trauma” is utter horseshit and Superman should’ve slapped Bruce’s bitch ass down.
>how Superman wasn't banging Wonder Woman,
Don’t agree but I wish Supes relationship with Lois could’ve been better developed
>how Superman was a pushover for Lois,
Agree I hate Lois being the key to his morality, that turns Superman into Dr. Manhattan. He sees horrible shit all the time but if Lois breaks a nail he’s ready to go full fascist? Fuck that.
>how Superman was cucked by Batman,
Agree fuck Timm and Dini for that shit full stop.
>how Superman was made into a villain as a series finale,
Didn’t mind it but I was irritated the show ended with him basically being a failure
>how Superman didn't impregnate Lashina like it was originally planned,
That’s fucking weird I don’t agree with that at all. Why would you want Superman to be raped?
>how Superman was mind-controlled by Starro,
Getting mind controlled wasn’t the problem, it wa sthat he was mind controlled for DECADES. The time scale was way fucking off

The facts are that Patty and Godot have explicitly said they don’t agree with Snyder’s take and they’re not going to be following it. Deal with it user.

Better director, done

Except they did follow it in Wonder Woman itself and in Justice League. Until you have something to show me other than nebulous statements in PR pieces then I'm not impressed or convinced.

>He stopped killing after Superman's death, you retard
No he didn’t he fucking strapped guns to the Batmobile and mowed down Parademons you retard
>He's the star.
Is that why he had 40 fucking lines in BvS? Fucking Spider-Man in CW had more.
>and sacrificed his life to the benefit of everyone.
He killed a big ugly monster just like MoS except this time there was magically no casualties or major property damage because the plot said so.
>The "maybe" line was given in a super conflicted way.
Doesn’t make it any less fucked up. Pa Kent is utterly worthless as a moral guide in the DCEU.
>Because Doomsday represented Superman's regrets and failures.
More like it represented Snyder’s colossal failure. You know what would’ve been better? If wheelchair dude had been turned into Metallo and battled Superman instead with Superman refusing to kill him. That would’ve been Superman facing his failures and learning from them.

Oh god, you're one of those people who defends Death of Superman in the second movie

Doomsday was Superman's Shadow. It's all Jungian crap. The wheelchair dude wouldn't have worked.

>Eisenberg Lex was a nice new take on the character.
in what way

>No he didn’t he fucking strapped guns to the Batmobile and mowed down Parademons you retard
Parademons aren't people. Even Superman in the comics constantly mow them down.

>and in Justice League
The last Snyder movie. Moving forward they won’t, which is why in WW1984 Diana is walking around in her costume in broad daylight out in public. The Snyderverse is over kid. Zaddy is dead and gone.

>Doomsday was Superman's Shadow.
How utterly fucking pretentious and stupid can you be? Listen user just because Snyder spotted some words doesn’t mean he understand them. In no fucking way is Doomsday Superman’s “shadow”. He is a big ugly CGI monster for the heroes to beat on and to kill Superman. That’s it. You’re a retard if you think otherwise.

everything boils down to Hack Snyder

>The Snyderverse is over kid. Zaddy is dead and gone.
I've already noted I don't give a crap about Snyder. You're pissing in the wind. I'm also probably older than you tbqh senpai.

And now we come to heart of the problem. Snyder claims his heroes change but they never show it in the movies. BvS ends with Superman killing again. JL has Batman killing all over. If Zaddy was as smart as you say he is why didn’t he give Batman an enemy he could show off his renewed no kill rule against? Or a villain Superman could show his newfound commitment to never taking a life again after Zod? He fucking killed Zod AGAIN

You do know that a lot of Batman portrayal in BvS is based on Morrison's Asylum which dealt with Jungian concepts, right?

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

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Like what,

Snyder poorly ripping off better people’s work? I’m fucking shocked. Batman have TDKR armor doesn’t make the movie good user.

Like Martha, his mother, being his Anima.

Zaddy copies a bunch of better Batman stories without understanding them. He fucking quoted TDKR to support Batman killing you idiot.

Snyder copies something he doesn't understand and executes it horribly. What else is new?

He seemed to understand what Morrison went for in Asylum, though.

No he didn’t. You are delusional. Go ahead and prove that Snyder understood AA.

Yeah, that's some really heavy symbolism, user. Truly Morrison alone could've grasped it.

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He understood that Batman portrayal in AA was a criticism of Miller's Batman as well as an evolution. That Batman's main struggle was against himself. That Martha was his way out. That Batman pursuit for enlightenment was all fucked up.

>MoS Superman is uncertain of his powers and who he is and reckless, causes/allows all manner of property damage
>BvS Superman is more confident yet conflicted about his role, frustrated by it all, but still a hero, and makes sure to get Doomsday out of the way as his first action and sacrifices himself
>JL he is vindicated and given a second chance, recognised as the hero he is, and once sane he is confident, happy to be alive, having stared death in the face he stands with the others as an equal at the end even with all his power

>Batman in SS takes prisoners, rather than using unreasonable levels of force
>Batman in BvS is angry, fearful, and willing to kill the 'other' and overstep his line, but in the end he sees how far and how fast he is falling and vows to do better
>In JL he brings together a team, instead of trying to do the impossible alone, admits he is too old and too much lesser physically to keep up, and serves more of a support role than as leader, coaching Diana into that role, and acts all dere to Superman, in the end standing with the others as part of a team looking into the light rather than delving alone into the dark

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I know BS have tons of failures, but i love Superman in BvS and nothing will ever change my mind. BvS surprised me a lot because it was the first time a capeshit hero struggled with the bad consequences of his existence and involvements despite them being untended on his part or not, and in the end he accepts his blame in it all no matter how unfair it might feel for him shouldering all the responsibility. The message of it all as well is one of the most adult one i've seen in a capeshit movie: sometimes despite our best intentions and efforts, bad things will happen,and whether we like the idea or not the blame is on ours. Yes, it is unfair because we didn't want or expected any of it, but that's how it is. Despite it all we shouldn't give up on always trying to help. We just have to accept things as they are when it happens and accept the responsibility for it. Because that's the right and responsible thing to do. When it get too tough just count on your loved ones for support and strength.

No things are always sunshine and rainbows, and the hero always get the happy ending. No. Just a somber reminder that reality is unpredictable and that sometimes we can make things worse by trying to make it better and despite not being fair we should still take the blame for the outcome. And keep on trucking.

If not pasta, and even if pasta, nicely put. I agree completely.

No copypasta. Just my honest feelings. BvS spoke deeply to me. I didn't like MoS so much, but i find BvS one of the best capeshit movies ever. I don't even care about the DCEU moving away from it or anything like that. I'm just glad it was made. That it exists. That Superman is at the heart of it. I love Superman's arc in it.

>WB closed its CinemaCon panel with John Williams Superman theme
Hope it was a tease for SDCC

Probably an unpopular opinion but I thought Superman in the end of Justice League was a great step in fixing his characterization.

If they can maintain the more happy and friendly vibes he was giving off in then of that movie then I think there is hope, of course there is rumor Cavil may be out and Supergirl in which really saddens me. I like Supergirl but not as a solo character and in replacement of Superman.

I hate that people blame Superman for the destruction of Metropolis. The damage his fight with Zod caused was minimal. The major destruction was due to the gravity machine. The only questionable thing he did was make out with Lois immediately afterward in the ruins of the city.

Superman is in a position where they don't how to sell a solo movie about him. They might bank on him with cameos, and that might be the safest choice, but a solo movie is a big risk. Directors don't know what to do with him and the audience don't know what they want out of him. Even the formula of following Richard Donner's take is a guarantee because of the specter of Superman Returns.

Who the fuck approved this costume version
And the faggot Batman suit from the 3rd act

Honestly, I don't want Donner Supes again. Obviously I want something with more of a Silver-Age influence, but they don't have to go Donner either.

It didn’t dawn on people that Snyder was going for something different and instead they turned to clickbait websites and reddit-tier video essays to tell them how to think.

>but i love Superman in BvS and nothing will ever change my mind
The scene in which he let the robbers leave with the Kryptonite even though one of them was firing a rocket launcher in the middle of the city so he could give Batman an ultimatum was the moment I thought this portrayal of Superman reached maximum retardation.

To be fair, Superman wasn't aware of what was going on, but i agree that it was a badly construed scene.

Heard a rumor they’re going to announce MoS2 with Cavill there but I don’t believe it. I fully believe Cavill is gone, whoever takes control of Supes would want to start from scratch like Reeves.

You mean Superman, who can hear Lois Lane scream from across the planet, could not see or hear explosions from the truck immediately ahead of the Batmobile?

>trailer drops
>first scene is a sequence of a grey, destroyed Metropolis. Ashes fill the sky
>New Superman actor wakes up in his bed as Clark
>"Whew, what a terrible dream"

Superman being hyper-focused on Lois to the detriment of everything figured into the plot, though. It's how Lex figured his secret identity, after all. As well as bait him.

but it's not like the robbers were across the planet either. If he came flying in they're right in his field of vision. He could've seen him with non-super senses. And i cannot stress this enough, one was FIRING A FUCKING ROCKET LAUNCHER in a populated area. Superman sees this and thinks "I should stop Batman for the sake of criminals being excesively brutalised".

Just rewatched MoS and all of the scenes with his Dad make me tear up. Based Kevin Costner. The way he looks at Supes posing gets me erry time

youtu.be/1XhLcUR2nyo?t=95

Hear me out, I know this sounds fucking crazy, but.... we make him Superman.

there hasn't been a DCEU for two years according to WB, problem solved

>problem

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Hey watch me completely derail this thread with 2 script problems Snyderfags REFUSE to admit are stupid in BvS
>Wonder Woman couldn't use the Kryptonite spear because of.......reasons
>Clark can't find his mom in Gotham despite the fact that he can hear everything, see through walls, and has super speed

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We've already been through this. They aren't actual problems. They're nitpicks you've because you're too dumb and doesn't like bad things happening.

He's perfect as is. You Not Muhfags need to move the fuck on.

>Nitpicks
>"Y-You're just dumb!"
Still fucking hilarious after all this time. The mantra of you morons. Eat a dick, cocksucker.

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>How do we fix DCEU Superman?
make him black, it's 2019 ffs, dc should stop being racist

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Grow up you fucking pansy, you can find a "Well why didn't x just y" in any fucking movie. But I bet you're so proud you've invented brand new talking points. Which are simple to explain by the way
1. Killing Doomsday was a spontaneous group effort and it's not like there was any actual plan.
2. Superman isn't omnipresent, if there was even a second Lex didn't think he was onboard Martha would've been killed immediately.

>Grow up
Amazing.
1. "Hey Diana, use this!" said by Bruce isn't a complicated plan
2. Good thing Clark can do his taxes within a second, and yes he can practically find nearly anybody on the planet if he wanted to. This a fact well established both in movie and comic canon

I hope for your sake you're not really this stupid and are merely fishing for (You)'s, you delusional faggot

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Chop him up with a Kryptonite cleaver and throw the chunks into 10 different black holes.

Snyderfags will defend literally every single aspect of his films. It's a disease.

>Probably an unpopular opinion but I thought Superman in the end of Justice League was a great step in fixing his characterization.
Everyone that isn't a Snyder fanboy thinks this.

>Patty and Wan both ignored the parts they didn't want
>both WW and Aquaman reference the previous movies

>super dark joyless monster
Literally nothing about Dceu fits the description you just gave except Joyless and that is only when things are at their worst in Bvs. He didn't do a single thing monstrous in anyway.
>no one liked his characters because they were all unlikeable assholes?
Dceu Superman didn't do a single thing asshole-ish except smashing the truckers truck which is understandable because he has 33 years of pent up rage at being bullied and not reacting in him and the beloved Reeves version did a much worse version of the same thing when he returned to the bar to publicly beat up someone who is completely defenseless against him.

>Stepping wolf as the 1st Justice league vilain? Wtf
There was few other options.
Too early for Darkseid.
Too early for Starro (people want to see the league having direct normal combat in their first team up, with Starro you have to be too creative and won't allow for cool battles because the League can't properly fight the people possessed by the starfish because they are innocent)
Furies would just seem like generic evil Amazons and would seem kinda weak compared to Faora and would be even easier for Superman to defeat then Steppy.
Dessad isn't a physical threat and is just as big a "who?" as Steppenwolf.
Brainiac should be saved for a Mos sequel.
Despero would seem like a silly pink Doomsday.
White Martians would only be viable if Martian Manhunter was in the movie which he is not.

Steppenwolf works like Loki did to set up Darkseid/Thanos.

People don't care about retcons if the retcon is better than things were before.

>ignored the parts they didn't want
>parts

>He didn't do a single thing monstrous in anyway.
Tell that to the innocent people of Smallville who died because he dragged Zod there from miles away.

>who hate anything that makes them question whether they could be doing better or be better.
This doesn't compute with Dceu Superman as he showed very much that flawed people can still be heroes and save lives. And it showed ordinary people with Perry, Lombard and the guy from the West Wing making heroic sacrifices.

Just don't mention or flashback to Zod's death or the tornado scene, that is it.

>Snyder told all of us that Superman would never kill again after Zod and then he fucking has him kill again in BvS
Snyder said that he did not kill the dictator and Clark in the film says he didn't kill anyone.

>He killed those thugs to save MARTHA
None of them are killed except the guy who crawled after the grenade which is not Batman's fault and maybe the guy with the flamethrower which is a perfectly 100% reasonable and justified killing unlike the people he killed in the car chase or those he branded.

>The fuck did he do that was in any way inspirational?
Surrendering to Zod to save the human race.
Going to the world engine even knowing he would be weak around it to save the human race.
Destroying the Kryptonian cloning machine to save the human race.
Killing the last living member of his race to save the human race.
Taking a nuke to the face to save the human race.
Dying to save the human race.
>How about a fucking villain Superman DOESN’T have to kill to see that no-kill rule
Doomsday isn't a sentient being, it doesn't count.
>and show some fucking inspiration?
Sacrificing his life to save the human race isn't inspiring because he had to kill a non sentient rage beast? Are you fucking serious?

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>Deadbeat Dad Superman is a dumb take
Deadbeat dad's are people who CHOOSE not to support their kids. People who aren't aware they have kid or are genuinely incapable of supporting their kids are not deadbeat dads.

>Superman has no easy out; when the question of "can" is certain, the uncertainty "should", "ought", and "why" become much more important.
>A good Superman conflict isn't what he CAN do, it is about what he SHOULD do and WHY.
This is exactly what Snyder did with the kids on the bus and the tornado scene.

No. People fully understand he was going for something different -- they just think that what he was going for was bad, or at least ineffective. His idea of mature and adult is weirdly childishly simplistic.

>This a fact well established both in movie and comic canon
It's literally established at the beginning of the film when he saves Lois

>except this time there was magically no casualties or major property damage because the plot said so.
No there was no major property damage because Superman took Doomsday out into space after the very first time that DD threw him into a building showing that he learned from his mistakes in Mos.
And after that Batman specifically lured DD back to the area that he pre prepared for his fight with Superman that was deserted.

>Pa Kent is utterly worthless as a moral guide in the DCEU.
There is nothing morally wrong with worrying about the greater good.
>If wheelchair dude had been turned into Metallo and battled Superman instead with Superman refusing to kill him. That would’ve been Superman facing his failures and learning from them.
A solid idea but Wayne tower wasn't a failure on his part. Zod slammed him into the building and Zod destroyed the building with his eye beams. Clark did zero structural damage to it whatsoever.

The only problem I had with him was when he wrecked that bully's truck. Yeah, the trucker was being a dick, but destroying his transportation and means of income was extremely excessive. A wedgy or something silly like that would have been more than enough payback.
As is, the act just comes across as uncomfortable. It is depicting a man bottling up his anger and then snapping in an unhealthy manner.

We don't. There is nothing salvageable there.

>who can hear Lois Lane scream from across the planet
No way of knowing where he was when he heard her in Africa and it's likely he was intentionally listening in because his loved one is going to be interviewing fucking terrorist.
He was likely already on his way back to Metropolis when he heard her scream when Lex threw her ass off the building after having a talk with ghost daddy.

Both Synder and Cavill are gone, so he's fine as is.

>>Wonder Woman couldn't use the Kryptonite spear because of.......reasons
Because...
(1) She the only thing restraining Doomsday's shockwaves and if she dropped the lasso the blast would likely spread and kill Batman & Lois and DD would be free.
(2) It would be cowardly for him to jump over to Diana and tell her to get up close and person with the impervious killing machine.
>>Clark can't find his mom in Gotham despite the fact that he can hear everything, see through walls, and has super speed
She didn't make any noise when kidnapped and she was taken in Kansas, he has no way of knowing she was actually in Gotham or Metropolis and it could be a monumental waste of time to try and search for her when he could be convincing Bruce to help him or beating him into submission.

That was a accident made in dire desperation moving and monumental speeds he has only started using the day before. He was looking down at Zod's face the entire flight.

Monsterousness requires malicious intent which he had none.

>Superman didn't kill that African warlord in BvS
come again?

Snyder said he did not. And Clark said in the film that he didn't kill anyone.
He could have easily have had his hand/arm wrapped around the guy's head protecting him from the worst of the impacts.

My wishlist for MOS2.
> Keeps the suit design we have had so far in the franchise, no removal of texture, no cloth & no trunks.

> Christopher Macquarie, Brad Bird, Gareth Edwards or Denis Villenueve directs.

> If Matthew Vaughn directs, he isn't allowed to make it anymore campy then First Class and he must take the villains seriously unlike his Kingsman villains.

> If JJ Abrams directs (and this goes for everyone else as well) he is not allowed to homage or rehash anything from the Donner films.

> Zimmer's score is heavily used & expanded on. The Williams theme is not.

> Clark is more optimistic but not naive or overly jokey. Show scenes of him being friendly to people he saves. Maybe some scenes of him not saving people from direct peril but doing things like bringing water/food to starving areas.

> Lois & Clark do not have any relationship struggles of note, just have them be happy, content & show them as a efficient unit working together as reporters. Their investigations take focus in the story.

> No Superfamily. If they have to use Supergirl then Olivia Thirlby (dredd) plays her. If Power Girl is used, the actress chosen has large breast & has the boob window.

> The rumored Supergirl spin off film does not happen.

> Parasite if used looks like the Alex Ross/tas version (including the glowing tron like bands) and is created with make up not CGI besides his flesh lightly shifting. They don't make him bulk up or fatten out like most modern versions do when he powers up.

> JesseLex if used again is much colder, more charismatic and less twitchy.

> Hold off on Brainiac. After Kryptonians & Steppenwolf and from Marvel/Fox, Thanos for 2 movies & soon the Skrulls in 2 possible films, alien/otherworldly invaders is going to get old.

> No Bizzaro. It's too big a risk of having it seem like Superman is punching down on a mentally defective person.

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> I would prefer that they not use Kryptonite for a while, but Metallo if used is close to his Tas design. I do not care if it will come off like a Terminator rip off, just do not turn him into a bloody Bayformer or do the thing with him absorbing tons of machinery.

> Maxima if used is sexualized. Deborah Ann Woll (daredevil) plays her if Poison Ivy is off the table for her.

> Silver Banshee if used is adapted from the new 52 version as a young girl trying to escape her evil father. Would give Superman a female character to interact with & inspire who is not a love interest nor a member of the Superfamily. Black Banshee her father would also be a interesting Supernatural threat that Clark can't just punch to solve.

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>faces of evil

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>(1) She the only thing restraining Doomsday's shockwaves and if she dropped the lasso the blast would likely spread and kill Batman & Lois and DD would be free.
>(2) It would be cowardly for him to jump over to Diana and tell her to get up close and person with the impervious killing machine.
Then write the fight differently. 1-2 aren't required to happen in that way or happen at all.
Superman died impaled like an idiot because snyder specifically wanted so. I'ts that simple.

Sorry nobody bought your crap Snyder

> majority of the audience couldn't give a crap about the movie Superman or Batman
>So what is the message here for WB? That Superman is right now a headache.
It's less that than the fact that they completely fucked those 2 guys up. A few scenes from JL can't have him recover just like that, especially with the mustache thing. People still hate both of them because they were the ones ruined the most by the first 2 movies. It's less "people don't care about Superman" and more "people still hate both this specific Superman and Batman because they got fucked up real bad"

The actual scene in the movie shows whad the scene shows: Superman smashing him into two concrete walls and then being done. No ambiguity.
External material doesn't get to contribute to what's in the movie.
Clark said he didn't kill the burned villagers.

He's just really weak willed and pathetic though. If he's willing to let his own father die because he's not ready then what chance would a normal stranger have when he something else he's not ready for comes up?

we let it die

Make bleak hopeless movie with muted colors and have his dad die in front of him for no reason and have superman break someone's neck

It was terrible though because both those examples are "he fucking absolutely should" and Snyder tried to present it as "It's so confusing you guys should he or shouldn't he?"

Flat character arcs? Where the beauty of the story comes not in how a character grows but in how the world and the characters around him changes because of him? That was really good.

I'm not interested into seeing something shitty becoming less shitty over time.
Anyway I'm done with DC for this generation.

Superman vs The Elite

Wow you're a genius! And if things go wrong it's not your fault. It's the result of executive meddling or people being too childish to understand. How do you do it?

No more origin stories, no more hero journeys, no more saving the world. Confine the story in scope and time, and focus on a villain with a clever plot that can nullify Superman's significant physical advantages.

You already are user keep your head up

just make a movie everyone knows superman for. superman saving cats out of trees, bringing coffee and saying hello to cops, and stopping the one robbery of the movie like this. there wont be any conflict in the movie at all, except whether or not lois agrees to paint the living room beige. the movie can end with the mayor giving superman the keys to the city and superman singing the star spangled banner. a bald eagle that sounds like a hawk will fly over his head at the end.

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What do you mean "fix"?
His character arc of molding into the Superman character in finished.
From Man of Steel and BvS, those were both Superman films that explored the character of a more modern and grounded take on the all-powerful alien that kickstarts the surge of superpowered metahumans to the main public spotlight.
There is no fixing because his part is done, unless he encounters a new conflict.

Oh and definitely don't retcon Snyder's stuff, or anybody's for that matter.
That's just silly.

Sex and violence! Batman rape! You living in a dream world!

You're acting like there isn't a hint or modicum of merit into what that quote is trying to convey.

I think it wasn't inspiring because it was stupid. If he gave the spear to Diana, who was already shown to kick Doomsday's ass, then fought barehanded nobody would have died.

And it's not just the truck guy who has to deal with that. Shit like that's insured so that's coming out of someone else's pocket. And what about the cleanup?

Diana's part at that was holding Doomsday down with her lasso since she was actually having a hard time fighting him despite chopping his limbs off.

There absolutely is. Heroes should be violent and kill! Comics should be X-rated! Snyder is a genius!

Whenever I see these Snyder cultists defend every single decision he made even when they contradict each other all I can think is if he introduced the Jared Leto DAMAGED Joker in BvS they'd unironically be defending it as kino and that his tattoos are somehow brilliant psychological evocations of his characters.

If the BvS version of Lex wasn't in a Snyder movie the exact same people defending him would be rightfully tearing that character a new asshole.

What's the problem? I haven't read it. I just like that Parasite design. He had basically the same design in Kingdom Come & Justice but without the glowing bands.

It definitely showed something fresh about the how human they wanted to show Superman is in the film.
Like yes, he has the unflinching restraint for physical confrontation but he still can get petty.

It wouldn't be hard if Diana had the spear and they communicated and fought together. As it is it's like the first person to talk explodes. No communication at all because the director thinks that speaking in costume is stupid. Then why'd he take the job if it was so stupid anyway? Now he looks like a moron and he's blaming everybody else.

>Moving the goalposts this hard
Sure he killed a bunch of people, but he totes didn't mean to so it doesn't count. Like if someone steals a plane and it crashes into people, it's not their fault sine they didn't know how to fly it.

They pretty much coordinated nonetheless, especially for their first time meeting each other in combat.
I keep thinking what character could've done it to tie it all together but I would've chosen Superman to kill Zodsday as well.
That being said it would actually be in-character for this Supes to actually be very wary when Kara comes along since he's had a bad rap towards living and unliving Kryptonians that costed him his life and the image of the people of Earth.

> Like if someone steals a plane and it crashes into people, it's not their fault sine they didn't know how to fly it.
This comparison doesn't work because stealing a plane is a bad thing & you didn't specify a morally righteous reason why they stole it.
A better comparison would be hijacking a private plane because the people on board are going to going to murder your mother who is on the tarmac. Yes you are morally justified in taking them away from your mother. It does not make you the bad guy if it accidentally crashes in that senario.

Him not being ready was only a small part of it. It was mainly about the world not being ready and would likely cause chaos in society, culture, religion & science as Pa talked about in the "maybe scene".

Which is why he should've given that spear to Diana. Considering it was their first time there should have been more communication between them. Superman should be the one to kill Doomsday but you should do it another way to make him look less stupid.

> he fucking absolutely should
It's not even remotely so cut and dry.
In the real world we still have genocides over genetic differences. (Rawanda?)
Humans having a horrific reaction to aliens existing especially godly powerful aliens isn't a concern you can just casually dismiss.

And yet he goes public in the future anyway. With nothing having changed to make it that he should reveal himself then. Superman is about doing the right thing. He shouldn't have to weigh saving a life he can save now against some vague future philosophical danger. You do the best with what you have right now. You don't philosophize reasons to shift the blame away from your inaction.

The whole world isn't ready for a Superman is one of the many points of Man of Steel and subsequently BvS.

I didn't think it was stupid and I'm pretty sure the reason why Supes got stabbed in the first place was because Diana wasn't strong enough to hold him in place.

> No more origin stories, no more hero journeys, no more saving the world. Confine the story in scope and time, and focus on a villain with a clever plot that can nullify Superman's significant physical advantages.
Agreed.
Have it be a sci-fi corporate or political mystery with Clark & Lois investigating together and whoever the organization is that they are looking into creates Parasite & maybe some other small time villains like Livewire.

>The only two things Superfags can agree on is that powerlevels are important and Superman should be MAXIMUM
What bullshit

I think the word you're looking for is "seeing the big picture"
Supes does still have that do the right thing attitude, that's why he does what he does in the films.
It's just that Jon always reminded his alien son indirectly to look at the big picture.

What is the big picture though? It's not even clear it's vague. That danger will always be there. Nothing will change. So you do what you can with what you have and try to use it for good. To inspire people. But this vague "big picture" is enough to have him not let his father die? The world will adjust when Superman comes. The only problem is he never did. Instead there's this new OC that's taking his place whining about how people don't accept him instead of just being happy because he's saving lives and winning them that way.

> And yet he goes public in the future anyway
Because Zod forced his hand.
> With nothing having changed to make it that he should reveal himself then
Jor-El gave him a path & a purpose and got him to test his full powers which convinced him if he showed up in full savior mode such would negate or cut off some of the things him & Pa feared before they started.
> He shouldn't have to weigh saving a life he can save now against some vague future philosophical danger.
That is incredibly blindly negligent when millions of lives are on the line.
Sometimes doing nothing IS the right thing. It's why Superman in the comics doesn't interfere with geopolitics or topple dictators.

Yes, that's why he comes out to the world as Superman
You're right, user, and Supes does that in his films, in fact I dont think he agreed with his father's decision of him sacrificing himself so the world will not know.
I mean it's really vague either since we see exactly that with BvS, to which Supes tries his best to make things right and make the world see that he's not a threat to their way of life.

IIRC, Jon said he'd be proud of him no matter what he'll become for the human race by virtue that he believes that he raised a well-adjusted son the best he can for an unknown alien species.

He went public saving people way before zod forces his hand. How exactly are millions of people's lives in the line? Knowing he exists is a big discovery but it won't magically get people killed. The reason why he doesn't topple dictators and involve himself in politics is because he doesn't want to decide humanity's path for them. Not because of the lives on the line but because he doesn't want to stop humanity's growth.
>Not willing to risk having humanity discover him saving a man from a tornado
>Willing to risk getting discovered impaling a man's truck instead
Yeah no

>really vague
I meant not* vague here.

IIRC Supes went public BECAUSE of Zod.
He was always just doing odd jobs and saving people the best he can while covering his tracks.

>It does not make you the bad guy if it accidentally crashes in that senario.
It does if you could've flown it in literally any other direction except straight into the town.

I'd love to hear Superman try and explain this to the family members of the people killed in Smallville. Implying he'd ever actually lower himself to talk to normal people.
>"I'm real sorry about killing you entire family"
>"But you see, he threatened my mother and I just lost it"
>"I wasn't thinking about anything else but my own rage"
>"Not the mother I was supposedly saving who I left behind with a bunch more of these bad guys, or the town I was bringing him towards"
>"You've gotta remember that it was my first day on the job, it's not like I lived in this town my entire life or had any useful super powers that could've helped identify that I was hurtling towards people like super hear or super vision"
>"So yeah real sorry, totes won't happen again, we cool?"
>"Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to apologize to the relatives of people who died in Metropolis while I was making out with my girlfriend"
What a hero.

The thing about Superman is that saving people comes from him caring deeply about them. So he would always try to save as many people as he can. This one's not even willing to save his own father. And what happens now that he's out anyway? No change happens to the world anyway. He just looks incredibly butthurt that the people don't accept him. Superman, in any iteration other than Injustice type elseworlds, is always happy to save people. That's what brings him joy. That he is able to use his powers for good. This one is whining about not being liked immediately instead of winning people over with his good deeds.

He didn't save his dad though.

It's actually kinda cool that Superman was sort of a cryptid or an urban legend in MoS.

He has to smile, save kittens from trees, be my imaginary step-dad, smile, have long monologues about how he cares about everything and how everything will be okay and smile a lot and have no problems and always have the answer and be confident and never struggle and always fight in places where there's no people around for a hundred miles... Did I mention he has to smile?

>The thing about Superman is that saving people comes from him caring deeply about them.
Yup, I get that and I do believe that, hell even Clark in the film believes that he should do shit with his powers.
The fact that you really want Clark to save his dad is kinda missing the point why he couldn't.
This was a definitely fresh re-envisioning of Supes though, I'd give them that.
And yes, Supes does save people, ready to do so in a drop of a hat and always runs into danger, but does so clandestinely not until Zod tracks him down and reveals him to the world.

>He didn't save his dad though.
That's before he left Smallville, right?
Jon really REALLY believed that his son shouldn't have to bear the burden of solving the entire world's problems (as to why, that's a whole can of worms), because even he is frightened by the prospect of an alien superhuman being a thing but loved him like a son nonetheless.
Plus, his dad was kinda right in the whole grand scheme of things.

>Where do people keep getting this idea that they rebooted everything?

They're delusional and hyperbolic.

And again he is shown to not take pleasure in it. He looks like he's only doing it to be liked not because he genuinely cares. I'm not saying I really want him to save his father I'm saying there is no circumstance that classic Superman himself doesn't. It doesn't matter what his father wants what matters is what he decides to do in that moment. He is shown to put more weight on fear instead of his love for his father. A fear that wasn't justified because the world never self destructed when they found out about him anyway.

Ah yes this is the only alternative right? He can't just be a someone who takes joy in helping people? Either he smiles like an idiot or is sour and gloomy all the time? Sometimes I wonder how it is to live life like a moron who only sees the world in extremes. Must be nice only having 2 choices to everything.

well yeah, he had something big set up with the Death of Superman, like bringing Superman back immediately.

kill the sjw sensitive millenial crybabys

The very power that Superman brings, pulls in many different issues in the world.
His very presence is an affront to Lex
Him operating with no oversight is a political nightmare.
youtube.com/watch?v=K0lQxUqmnfU
And Superman being Superman will always be willing to comply to the rules and is continually growing as a dynamic character across the films, maybe eventually become the more traditional Superman which is kinda neat actually.

I don't know what he set up for his Death of Superman but him dying I think is more of "There you guys, happy now? He's fucking dead."
What I don't agree is bringing him back a la Reign of the Supermen style with the "AAAND he's back!" with all that convoluted bullshit that is significantly worse than what happened in BvS. I've always thought that was one of the most retarded things in what I've read throughout the years.
They should've at least used somewhat of a World without Superman angle in some other film tie-in as a grieving period.

JL was originally going to be 2 movies, it seems pretty obvious to me part 1 was going to be JL without Supes getting their shit kicked in and the world slowly turning to hell.
Absolutely no idea who thought it was sane to condense all of it into a 2 hour movie.

Yes and like all other issues, Superman will deal with it in his traditional diplomatic way. But do all of these issues justify him not saving a life when they could be dealt with? Because this stuff that he fears are the reason why he let his father die. What happens to all those people who are in danger but are in public? People in burning buildings or about to get hit by cars in busy areas? Does he just let those go because he was afraid of these issues? Because that's what that tornado scene represented. Hide your existence from the world because some "issues" may arise. Even at the cost of easily savable lives. The question is this: Do you honestly see classic Superman letting people die because he is afraid of that?

Yeah, I've always felt that the JL film had many plot points to go about for such a small time that it felt very squished but I guess they didn't think Steppenwolf could be the main antagonist for two films in a row?
I mean it would've been cool for another of Darkseid's Elite to show up and basically try to backstab Steppenwolf after "succeeding" in the first act of the Justice League film.

Cavill's Superman doesn't really fear as much as his parents did for him because he truly wishes that "things were just as simple" when he tries to do the right thing.
But I do believe Cavill's Superman is slowly turning into "classic" Superman.
It's not so much fear as much as Black Widow said in another superhero film about politics "reading the terrain"

>do you see classic Superman
First off, it was pretty clear-cut that although the film is Superman it isn't trying to emulate the classics in his infallibility at all.
But to to answer your question, no.
Hell, "classic" Superman would even lecture you and everyone else in the universe what they're doing wrong.

If he wasn't afraid then he should've done something during the tornado scene. And that's the problem with the movie. That scene was presented as a teaching moment. An event that helps shape him as a hero. It was a "Should he save him" dilemma when it actually isn't. Yes he absolutely should freaking save him. It doesn't make sense not to otherwise. That choice isn't between his dad and his secret identity. It was about the lives of all the people in danger in public he would encounter vs the vague consequences of him being revealed are.

The consequences aren't vague in a sense that it did happen.
You can see hints of Superman getting exhausted at the world in the sequel and nearly gives the entire thing up.
Saving him would've just thrust him into that world where he doesn't have the insight he attained while traveling the world.

All this and my side of how I saw the two films on the Superman character is that: Superman isn't Superman the day he was born.

Superman isn't Superman when he was born. That's why Jon and Martha are extremely important to his character. They were the ones who molded him and taught him to always do the right thing. They even taught him that the people turning against him was just because they were afraid and that he should show them the right path by doing the right thing in "What's so funny about truth, justice, and the american way / Superman vs The Elite". He was never exhausted in those because he cared less about how much the people liked him as opposed to the frightening direction their beliefs are leading them to. It was about Superman caring about the people being led to evil by their own fear and not Superman getting tired because he isn't liked anymore.

The MOS movie fucking them up is a big reason why the character of Superman himself is fucked up as well. And once again his exhaustion comes from the fact that he isn't accepted immediately when he just recently came out. Something not even as important as him showing them that goodness can exist in people. That people are willing to sacrifice themselves for others even if they get nothing in return.

He isn't Superman when he was born but he absolutely should already be, or at least close to it, when he leaves Smallville. He should already have a strong set of morals and what is right and wrong at that point. Tornado scene Clark didn't because his dumbass parents kept trying to fuck him up.

Fuck off nigger the problem with Snyderman is that he was a plot device rather than a character, not that he had flaws. He lacked the agency to make choices let alone the right ones.

>Superman isn't Superman the day he was born.
No, he's not. He's just a nice guy.
And that's the problem with the Snyder take. He's an ostracized alien from a young age. He's bullied and sullen and withdrawn.
Frankly most of Yea Forums would've hated young Clark because he was kind of a Chad.

This. A lot of scenes show him acting like a dumbass because the plot demanded it. Not because it made sense for him to do so.

Now that you mention it young Clark did seem to be a good candidate to become a future school shooter. Kek. Fucking Snyder fucking shit up when we could have gotten an DCAU movieverse.

You sound really assblasted that people didn’t enjoy Zack Snyder’s shitty Superman movies

This is why Brightburn is going to be tons of fun.

>Superman doing small random acts of kindness that can be achieved by powerless humans is bad.
You get that he's not just a nuclear option, right? For him to be inspiring he has to do stuff that normies can.

Yeah because at least it isn't pretentious. It's just it's own thing.

You cant.
Clearly whoever is in charge of making DC movies knows normies only like batman stuff now and thats why they're doing this joker movie

Sides in orbit next to Wayne satellite

>Snyderfag strawmaning
You got us man, that's exactly what people that hate Snyder's shit want.

>isn't trying to emulate the classics in his infallibility at all
Try actually reading some fucking comics. Superman hasn't been "infallible" for over 40 years.

1. There are multiple ways that fight could have gone down
2. Wasn’t making noise? He keeps track of heartbeats you stupid fuck. Read a comic

>the movies ignore Snyder
>the factually, provably don't
>yeah but I can ignore those so I just say the movies do too
Why be retarded? Why not be normal?

>nearly gives the entire thing up
He literally does give up though.
>"Superman was never real"
He goes to a mountain to die and only comes back after ghost dad tells him that the world is a shit place but as long as you've got one person then you can keep going. So he only comes back and sacrifices himself for "his world" Lois.

It's not quick at all. It's literally the entire reason her terrible entrance in aquaman isn't irredeemably bad, because we know it isn't an intro. And it's the entire reason she thinks he can beat Orm.

flashpoint
than superman have a quick deal with 15 min different origin story than he wake up and realize he have married lois and have a kid movieis a family adventure comedy in with old sup and new sup became 1 to protect people and his family

Also cast a actress closer to Cavill's age

It's also the only thing he is good at

>Superman in this universe is too cynical for this audience.
While in general I agree, did you see how he was at the end of Justice League? The charm, confidence, and uplifting presence that had missing through the entire universe up to that point, were all there. If you focus on that, and make the effort to downplay everything else, and put out trailers that look more like Wonder Woman and Aquaman, and less like BvS, I believe people will give it a chance and not be as averse.

Thanks for putting that scenario in my head, user

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I think he was referring to the Zelda CDI games. The faces of evil are bosses in that game i believe

He really isn't. I'm sorry he not smiling everytime he's on screen but that doesn't make him cynical

>snyderfag strawmanning about smiling again

youtube.com/watch?v=J0f3t9Z850M

This is the only time you will see him in 3D

>and superman’s JL costume at the end.
How is that a spoiler?

DCU Shazam isn't naive.

Just do something like Flashpoint and reboot it

>Too early for Darkseid.
Eh, he'd appear in the 2nd movie anyway. Steppenwolf could have worked if he actually got adapted as being the main villain from the start, but he was just a lead-in to Darkseid and then they decided to drop JL2 being a direct sequel still during pre-production, leaving us with a sub-boss that goes nowhere.

No way. The DCEU is where it’s at because WB kept getting cold feet about Snyder and Ayer’s movies. A reboot would be the most pathetic & confusing thing do to, especially after the success of aquman and the the critical praise of Shazam.
At this point they gotta do what they said they would do since the beginning, stick to their guns and let the directors take lead.

But they've completely fucked Batman, partially fucked Superman, fucked the death of Superman, completely fucked Dark Knight returns and fucked Justice league, some of the most important DC things
They should reboot and claim that Aquaman and Shazam are still canon, i.e. only reboot Batman, Superman, Justice league and Wonder Woman.

>reboot Wonder Woman

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Just watch Hancock.

these floating doors in Shazam are the answer.

Reboot the franchise and get a new director have them watch the first two Reeves superman movies, read Superman #775, and read All Star Superman.

Gal Gadot isn't the right actress to play wonder woman
I don't know who i'd pick instead, but Gadot just isn't right

>reboot Wonder Woman
again?!

Attached: 1543864871594.jpg (337x372, 17K)

Make him black. Get the supes from that black DC universe. Hell, just make BDCU movies.

I disagree, but I'm not even debating that. Carol may have stole some of the recent female superhero protagonist thunder, but Wonder Woman was on a pop culture scale, the first unqualified smash hit of the DCEU. The masses loved it, and the goodwill it brought the studio, would be doubled in backlash if WB tries shutting it down before Gadot and/or Jenkins stopped making them on their own terms.
You are more than welcome to think they should reboot it, I'm just telling you from the bottom of my heart that you are setting yourself up for disappointment if you think there is a significant chance of that happening.

You are more likely to have Wonder Woman and Aquaman acting as the new points of reference for the introduction of a recast Batman and Superman that ignores any part of MoS, BvS, SS, or JL than you are to get a WW reboot, and even with my saying that, that isn't going to happen either since every indication is that WB is just going to silo the IP families and avoid direct plot-heavy crossovers for the immediate future.

I'm not trying to be a dick. I promise I'm just looking out for you, bub.

Superman isn't Spider-Man, he focuses on the bigger picture, but still has Ll the elements everyone expects him to have as a pioneer of specific type of his established archetype, from Spider-man to Captain America to Shazam to All Might etc.

So modern day jesus and Peter Parker drama.

Easy we just fuck with the time line with Flash.

They're already doing it with Suicide Squad

Read the fucking thread as to what runs people are actually pointing towards itt, they're nearly all peak Superman moral "because that's what he should be".
That's his infallibility I'm referring to.
Cynical Superman isn't even a new thing at all.
I may not have read the entirety and all of Superman's history but at least I've read what most of the anons are pointing out what is to be emulated.
What about you?

I thought he went to the mountain to clear his head?
I don't remember every detail of BvS.
>He gives up
Well, not totally.
His faith in humanity was shaken sure.

>Lois looks over
>"What was your dream about?"
>"I did things I would never really do and I was acting like an ass the entire time"

I would think of you less of a dick if you weren't constantly telling me that you aren't one
Still i sadly have to agree with you, but still my complaints about Wonder Woman are minor and she can still be salvaged if they just write her differently now, even if the actress doesn't fit, but on the other hand Batman and Superman absolutely have to be rebooted as their flaws are part of their fundamentals. Even if you'd just want to keep the IP's isolated Batman and Superman can't function like this. If i was in charge of the DCEU i'd do something like Flashpoint or some other alternate universe merger to justify only rebooting these two characters.

Yup I agree, all those are building blocks to how Superman is built.
But in MoS, his parents gave him a choice which I think is also important.
He doesn't have to be the world's saviour, he doesn't have to don the cape.
If he does, he better be prepared.
Turns out, Cavill's Superman does want to take up that mantle in his journeys through self-discovery.

>he should be Superman when he leaves Smallville
I agree but also disagree at the same time.
He does have a strong set of morals when he leaves but he is still wrestling to the idea that with his kind power he should take baby steps.
I mean he tried to lay low the best he can but ultimately, the world both needs and resents Superman and Cavill did choose to take up that burden because he can.

>He's just a nice guy
Yup, I believe he is.
People kinda project many things unto the man but deep down he's still that kid that will save everyone in the bus.
Young Clark definitely depicts a confused alien boy that is somewhat resentful that he isn't a normal kid like everyone else, but his parents reassure him that he will stand tallest in front of the human race...if that's the kind of life he wants.

So jesus.

>He's just a nice guy
>Yup, I believe he is.

Problem is, he's not the only one and pretty much intervenes too much to showcase how useful he is compared to other heroes.

Problem is, he needs to realize he's not the messiah of good deeds and can help everyone, he needs to be a hero who helps heroes follow his example in order to show them his way is more useful with helping hands than representing a sole symbol of hope.

Clark being a messianic figure is a responsibility bestowed by him by the people of the world which I think was foreseen by Jon when Clark saved that kid and his mom is calling Clark "an act of providence from God"
>he needs to be a hero who helps heroes follow his example in order to show them his way is more useful with helping hands than representing a sole symbol of hope.
Yup, I believe he is getting there but that's just me extrapolating his overarching character arc over the films
I hope we do get another Superman film though just to see where he is now in continuity.
If he's still jaded at humanity that really wouldn't make any sense, he should have his sense of right bolted into his being now since he's surpassed his dilemmas.

WW should stay, just because she was surprisingly good in her own movie, which was also surprisingly good.

Reboot the shit out of everything else though.

>Clark being a messianic figure is a responsibility bestowed by him by the people of the world

Just like Batman(justice and literal man made altruist via being the richest human in earth,Wonder Woman(demi goddess of love, compassion, and hope ,and emissary of a island about those morals), Shazam(the God bestowed hero of the people and most powerful champion of a godhood of earth), Green Lantern(Protector of Earth based on cosmic police officers authority, lawman of the entire planet).

Superman isn't divine or cosmic power protector. He's just a alien that has to bring hope to those who are actually allowed to play those roles. He's more a prophet.

nobody cares

>Superman isn't Spider-Man, he focuses on the bigger picture
Disagree. He's always been depicted as treating even the small stuff as worthy of his time.

The character or the movie? I have no problems with either. Why do you want to change him?

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youtube.com/watch?v=vFpOGtvanYM

Heck him doing small time stuff is part of what makes him so inspirational. That someone so big and powerful still has time to help us even with the little things. It shows that he's just a guy who really cares.

The problem with that is that they are shown giving him the choice but not with giving him the character necessary to make the right one. This is massive since the Kents have always been a big reason why Clark is who he is. He is sure of himself and confident because he was raised with a strong moral compass. He will always try and do the right thing.

MOS Clark is confused and unsure because they took away the biggest reason on why he chooses to become Superman. This is why he doesn't know what the right thing to do is. He chooses to become Superman not because of his parents but despite of them. He is so focused on getting people to like him that he doesn't even believe that a good deed is it's own reward. This is why people say he's "cynical", because he wants a reward for being good in that he wants people to like him. He didn't lose hope because people were rejecting his lead and choosing to do wrong things like in The Elite. He lost hope because they didn't like him even immediately when he just very recently came out.

It doesn't matter to Superman whether the world accepts or resents him. It never has. That's why the people like him so much. He is just a guy who will always do the right thing and take pleasure in it, liked or not. Even in Kingdom Come where he gives up it was because the people chose a new, more brutal set of morals, not because he was unliked.

Man of Steel Superman is someone always trying to do the right thing, and doing it, all the while learning from his past mistakes.

I think a new Superman film should actually try to adapt the best they can the time when Superman went against the Elite (or really just Chester) but contained in Metropolis after some year or two.
It would go off that he is justified in killing criminals because Superman himself killed Zod and should've done it sooner if he was going to anyways.

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He sure seems like he hates doing it though. Like doing the right thing is only worth it if you're liked in return. Plus with a broken compass where, prior to his going public, he seemed ok with letting people die just to keep his secret.

And you're not strawmanning?

>he seemed ok with letting people die just to keep his secret.
Supes was never ok with people dying, come on user.
It did happen but he wasn't ok with it.
It was more of a crisis of faith, everybody gets that in some point of their lives.
People started politicizing Superman and threatening his mum and blowing up federal buildings but in all intents and purposes, Superman has definitely come out stronger from his ordeals and should definitely help others that has been down that road.
Like I said before, this Superman definitely is "growing" or has "grown".

It just kinda sucks that we're not getting anymore Superman films.

He had a choice user. Let his dad, and with him all the other people he would encounter who are in danger in public, die, or save him. He made his choice. He chose his identity over the lives of endangered people in public. It wasn't a crisis of faith nor was it a very hard decision if a majority of viewers can tell that it was extremely wrong. He was ok with people dying if it keeps his identity safe. The movie shows that.

It doesn't matter if he's grown. He lacked the heart that was necessary for someone to become Superman. The heart that takes joy in helping people. He never takes pleasure in that. He has a need to be liked to be happy. He also lacks the heart that just cannot accept letting people die if he can do something about it. as per my previous point above. This guy was never going to become Superman.

Why don't you explain how that is strawmanning? Do you even know what that means?

>This guy was never going to become Superman.
I believe he can, he definitely isn't your traditional Superman which I totally get but I'd still give him some hope.

The movie never gives him the traits necessary to become Superman. He can become a Superhero sure but Superman? Not a chance. It's not about hope. It's about what the movie showed this guy has and he's too fucked up to ever become Superman. Superman saves people because he has a good heart and that's what makes him happy. A guy who doesn't have that can never become him.

If he's not even remotely close to traditional Superman that he doesn't have even his most basic traits then he's just another OC hero. He can call himself Superman but his movies will be doomed to fail because people can see right through him. Think about Cap's first movie when he threw himself in front of that grenade. He didn't have the powers but you knew that this guy was going to be Cap because he had the heart needed to become a hero. This guy's not even as inspirational as Cap.

>he's just another OC hero
It's nothing really new for Superman as Grant Morrison rightly put it.
As for Cap being Cap before the serum, yup that is the point of the film, a man is worth more than his weapon-type deal.
Man of Steel's Superman is still inspirational to me though albeit more of the tackling responsibility part and that you'll always be ready when you are.
Both films tried to go about it at different angles of course, Cap is definitely more traditional in a sense while Man of Steel is refreshingly different but still is inspiring in a different way.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. This is an entirely new take on Superman because this is someone who we are supposed to view as a hero yet lacks the traditional values of one, let alone Superman. Heroes don't get to choose when they are ready. The situation is thrust upon them and they step up to the plate. Plus I have to reiterate that heroes do what they do because helping is what makes them happy. This guy needs acceptance. Helping alone isn't enough for him.

And with that we finally agree.
You still want a new Superman film though right?

Beyond a bit brighter suit, I think he's good now. He was pretty in-character near the end of Justice League, we just need better stories for him to be in.

I'd like to scrap the entire universe and start over with an origin story, then world's finest. This can lead to a DCAU type of extended universe. Recast some actors while keeping some. Cavill seems good as long as he has a good script but I'd like to recast Batman as that guy's too old for multiple films. Recast Flash, Diana, and Aquaman as well. Make Aquaman more regal instead of dudebro but keep Wan and Jenkins since they know what they're doing. Add in Green Lantern, who will be a JL member but have his own space epic with the rest of the green lanterns in his individual films, and Martian Manhunter. The heroes will have sidekicks which can lead to a Young Justice or Teen Titans type of movie.

This is a wishlist btw not something I hope would happen because I know this is impossible. Never in a million years gonna happen. Just something I thought might be cool.

Flashpoint.

>clark saves the dog and his father lives.
>clark goes to college and becomes a junior reporter alongside Lois
>lex is a big bald chad of a man.
>superman starts early in a different costume
>lexcorp finds the kryptonian scout ship years early
>young superman and young batman meet while defeating lex/joker team up
>superman hides the alien ship with batman's help. Gets his proper costume.
> superman knows about his father Jor El and zod earlier.
>justice league forms to defeat Zod
> zod and his gang are sent back to the phantom zone. Metropolis isn't ruined
>no steppenwolf invasion. Instead it's granny goodness and furies
>every league member gets a movie where they face a fury.
>darkseid kidnaps and brainwashed superman.
>superman invades earth
>lex and Karen zor el save superman
>enraged superman beats the tar out of darkseid. Until new genesis intervenes
>

I'd really like it if they just started over so they can have a better take on the big 3 and get rid of the SS and this universe's Lex and Joker. They can also get rid of their miscast actors of which there are a lot. But what does it matter it's never gonna happen anyway. They're going to continue churning out individual movies that reference the shared universe but will never go beyond that anyway. It will be self contained movies from now on.

A christmas story would be nice.

God that headgear looks fucking retarded

Top Kek. What purpose does that even serve? To hint that he's being mind controlled by Modok?

He's literally Michael Bay tier. Style over substance: The Director

>Snyder's and Post-CoIE Superman are very close, user.

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Turn Superman into his Calvo form.

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Retcon Synder movies as non canon too

Well you're right. MoS had some garbage writing and did a lot of damage to Superman's public image, but god did it look cool.

make him gay, a woman, and a minority and the plot twist is the rest of earth is aliens and he is the only natural earthling and thats why he has the powers he has and then he kills the planet instead of saving it

Lex knew it all along

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Wonder Woman 2 is taking place in the 80s and ignoring BvS

Mera mentioning Steppenwolf was so quick it and JL had no relevance on the movie.

Shazam couldn't even get Cavill and Batarangs always change.

And lastly, even Gunn admitted his Suicide Squad would be a reboot and ignore the first movie.

You fucking plebs couldn't appreciate how precious Snyder's Supes was and now he might be gone. I hate you all.

Just make a movie about him as wholesome as pic-related.

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or give him to marvel. Marvel wouldn't let Jimmy fucking Olsen get killed.

But that's Superman at his peak and last of moments before dying.