How could you?

Open up a patreon instead.

I'd be fine supoorting the artists but I don't want to funnel money into brick and morter comic book stores, publishers, or any of the rest of the nonsense. Let me give my money directly to you.

Physical media should just die.

It's still surprising that Disney/Marvel or WB/DC haven't done anything about comic book piracy. Not even a C&D threat.

>Zub
Fuck him.

There actually was some action done several years ago, which is why certain places dropped covering Marvel books.

I think a lot of books are pirated simply because they're read out of habit as long as they can get it "for free." So you can't actually translate everything being pirated to lost sales. Similarly if people really like something they pirate, certain percentage of that group will go and actually buy it later.

Do they honestly think those people would have bought it?

I bought all Nova's series but not paying for Zub to put Sam on the backburner

101k people read your fucking book.

Why the fuck are you going into an artistic venture for profit?

Does this fucking idiot actually think downloads = lost sales?

>This
Hey someone agrees with me!

>I'll pirate out of curiosity but I won't fucking buy it if I don't like it. Also fucking floppies are expensive and I'm not going to drop 3.50-5 dollars per issue unless I really love the character and the story line is fucking good enough that I want to see it continued.
I only buy TPBs because that's the only thing my store actually sells alongside other nerd stuff, but yeah floppies are quite expensive and I would only buy them if they were so good. I am currently planning on buying Avengers No Surrender because I liked the story.

>Also I bet a lot of people pirated the hell out of America because they wanted to see that horrible trainwreck and laugh at it but I am sure they didn't want to fucking support it, much less wanted it to continue.
I personally believe that it failed because who actually wanted an ongoing comic series around her?

>that one literal who's comics
I searched her name, she's some author of novels that I have never heard of before, which makes her a literal who.

I don't know their work but I'm sorry mate, importing floppies is just out of the question and I can't possibly buy everything I read (actually, out of everything I'm reading right now, only Milligan's Shade's been published in my country and the first 2 tpbs were severely underprinted so I'm not paying 100 fucking bucks for half of a series I'm not even sure I love anymore).
They have at least twice that I remember

Here's a sooution to your problem:
>Sell comic books in shops people actually go to
>sell them for $1.50 maximum
>don't hire shit artists ever

Mediocre book, that you will never go back to, gives you few hours of entertainment, same with mediocre game. Mediocre comic book gives you an hour tops.
Not my fault the form of art you chose is one of the least cost effective for the consumer, Jimbo. I don't pirate and I buy books and games that I want to try out on the reg, but I'll never buy a comic that I haven't read before. If I read a comic that I think I'll reread, I can buy it and be sure that I can reread it every few years and be satisfied. I'm not made of money, I need to get a bang for my buck.

Also fuck floppies.

Not to mention now that I think of it, if they're self published, you're probably making bank if you're selling 47k editions a month and if they're not, they'd get paid twice as more than I do for drawing less than half a book on the big two.
So yeah, fuck you you pieces of shit.

The problem is though how many of those that pirated it would've bought it legally if they couldn't pirate it? If I couldn't download stuff I just wouldn't read 90% of what I currently do.

I pirate comics online to keep the ones I buy in good condition.

I also pirate comics because I, as a normal consumer cannot reasonably afford or provide the space in my home for a half dozen different X-men titles and a dozen new indie darling #1's every month.

As long as the industry uses the "throw it all against the wall and see what sticks" approach- it's hard to feel guilty for bleeding an industry that is now designed to bleed you in return.

People gotta eat too

if comics where not run by sjws who hate white men and only care about pandering feminist proganda I might buy comics again

I don't think you ever bought that many if you're still worried about MUH SJWS instead of just finding something that suits your tastes.

>Amount of pirate downloads declined at the same time the sales did.
Seems more like a problem of quality with your books.

I used to spent around 100 dollars each year on comics. Don´t know if that is much but when I was a kid it sure was a lot of my money.
>t finding something that suits your tastes
That is easier said then done. I mean there is not a single american comic that still suits my taste. No comic is still allowed to have actually sexy female costumes for example. I am not saying that having sexy women is important for a good story but I sure as hell won´t support sjws in their rewriting of comics.
Also white male characters nowadays always get written as losers so that minority and sjw characters can steal the show.
and there is always at least some line about feminism or social justice.
I did switch to european comics and still buy and read them a lot but american comics I have completely abandoned.

Have to agree. If you are white, male and straight comics just don’t have anything to offer to you. White men are always portrayed as either evil bad guys who need to be beaten by a team of minority, gay and female team of unoriginal copy cats or white men are portrayed as idiots and damsel in distress who get emasculated and saved by women.

100 dollars a year is like two floppies a month. You're just a big two reading dolt who couldn't even begin to grasp how much shit is out there. I don't even live in the US and I can give you all of that.
Women in sexy costumes? There's like 30 years of Vampirella (and counting) out there, plus a bunch of rip offs, Sheena by IDW, hell, there are entire PUBLISHERS of nothing but sexy women in sexy outfits, like Zeniscope.
White male characters who aren't losers? Holy fucking shit nigger you're browsing Yea Forums and you never heard of one of the most based men in one of the most based comics ever,Gall Dennar / Howards? Fucking GI Joe comics also seem very macho but without a lot less of the shit you expouse, so maybe give the 40 years (and counting) of that comic a try as well
This complaint in particular seems even more stupid, because almost everyone in the big two is a white man and they can't possibly be losers.
>but they switched Thor for a woman!!!!!!!!!!!
don't fuckign read Thor then if it hurts you so much, even though shit like that has happened countless times in the past.
I bet your "switching to european comics" was getting Blacksad, L'Incal, some Asterix you haven't read yet and a billion congratulatory pats on your hypothetical back since I doubt that sausage arm of yours can even get there, you fucking piece of shit.

>comics are more popular than manga guys
nobody on Yea Forums says that
its common knowledge that manga not being bound by Diamond helps it thrive thanks to better distribution and marketing

No, if you're a fragile white male you need constant reminders that you're just as strong as le strong men in the comics but guess what you rotten canker, you're still just as fragile.
If you were a even remotey balanced white male, you'd just drops whatever books you didn't enjoy and look for ones you do.

Better yet why are you getting into comics for money? That shit is over, it ain't the 90s anymore, you aren't the guy who made The Walking Dead, etc.

Ive read tons of shit in Yea Forums storytimes and then gone out and bought the books so i can continue the story. Try before you buy essentially. if I read partway into something and its shit, Im not going to go buy a physical copy.

If your book is being pirated and not making legit sales, maybe the problem isnt the pirates. Maybe if the pirates had no way to pirate it, they wouldnt even know about it and still woudlnt buy it anyway.

Who knows.

Attached: kevin.jpg (450x300, 123K)

What if I'm subscribed to Marvel and DC's digital services? And buy trades? And buy some floppies?

The distribution system is fucked it's not on me to do extra work to get books

scanning the thread is arguing about sjw shit which what the hell. stupid Yea Forums

>you'd just drops whatever books you didn't enjoy and look for ones you do.
but there aren’t any. Dc and marvel have all turned their white make heroes into losers for sjw reasons. Batman gets constantly outsmarted and beaten by every women he runs into, Spider-Man gets called an idiot and weakling by every female character as well, etc
There are no none sjw American comics

>I dont buy floppies because its too much hassle
>I just wait and buy collected editions and volumes instead

Attached: sienfeld.jpg (160x173, 4K)

I mean, I work in a creative area and I've been ripped off on a much minor scale and I know it's terrible, because you feel you've been fucked over on every level (as an artist, a professional and a person) and I don't even know what either author in OP works on, but just two or three days ago I was watching Cartoonist Kayfabe and the three of them, which are all working cartoonists and fantastic ones at that (at least Ed and Tom, I'm not familiar with Jim's work) and the three of them recommend you to just post your work for free online and wait for the readers to come (Ed actually asked Marvel to get Second Genesis for free online but we all know that would never fly) so maybe it is an issue with your work - not even the artistic work, but the managerial / corporative shit. Maybe stores aren't ordering, maybe the book isn't being properly advertised, maybe it's being sold in the wrong place, there are tons of explanations (and good comics which faced similar problems WITHOUT having to deal with piracy)
@106784108
now you're just trolling not even getting a (you) from me

I pirate because not only its legal here but because I can. If a creator is good I will support it anyway with buying his stuff, discussing it, recommending it etc. They are just seething because the consumers have more power over them now and they cant peddle dogshit content for long. Always pirate before you buy.

...

>GI Joe
I actually read a GI JOE comic here recently. it was just another "strong wyman" show where white male characters did nothing except getting either saved by women or easily defeated by women.
>This complaint in particular seems even more stupid, because almost everyone in the big two is a white man and they can't possibly be losers.
If you actually read them then you will see that they are. I mean just recently Booster Gold and Blue Beatle got easily defeated by two women who don´t even have super powers.
>I bet your "switching to european comics" was getting Blacksad, L'Incal, some Asterix y
no I actually started to read Troy, Ekho, Eagles of Rome and several other smaller fantasy based comics

This. How are you gonna know which TPBs to buy unless you pirate?

Yeah! Stick it to those leftist capitalist pigs!🐷

>Comic collection has grown since I find shit here and manga on Yea Forums to pick up and don't have to waste money on shit I don't like

Attached: 1496460343495.jpg (699x699, 104K)

based chikaposter

>TV
>Internet

>Blueberry
>I-pad

>Newspaper
>Blogs and Digital News

Whats the Comic Killer Yea Forums?

The writers.

>Whats the Comic Killer Yea Forums?

pdf?

*Blackberry fuuuuggg

Mate so you went from spending 100 dollars on comics a year to importing series that would cost you 10 euros a month?
You're still pirating and you're pirating a very narrow set of books still. If GI Joe is too SJW for you try literally any other war comic coming out, whatever outlaw / Rebel Press books are still coming out, the endless valiant drivel that never seems to stop coming out and so on.
Diversify your taste in comics, euro, american or from anywhere else.

So thats the real problem. Not piracy

>implying people who pirate would buy the book if they can't

Attached: 1546318663245.png (720x720, 947K)

Is Valiant even popular anymore?
Hardly heard anything about their since their "revival".

Well, maybe if comics weren't so expensive...

Also, Jim Zub and his ilk, fanboy writes that masturbate over continuity and do shipping faggotry instead of telling a story not only deserve cancelation, but deserve to be kicked out of the industry.

Decrease the price and I might buy your comics.
They're ridiculously expensive.
I really don't see how I could justify paying the same amount for one issue as I would for the equivalent of 6-7 chapters of a japanese comic when each of those chapters is the same length as an issue.

They ran out of money to pay the shills.

Nah, I pirate those too🏴

I'm more surprised they haven't done anything about undoing the pseudo-monopolu Diamond has on comic book distribution. I guess the (slow) expansion into the digital market is part of that.

As someone who does encourage paying for what you enjoy...I wouldn't consider most of those numbers to be potential consumers. Most of them are just people who'll read the story solely because it's free. If you removed the means for them to pirate comics overnight, they won't just pop in to the LCS in two weeks or a month to buy the next issue; they'll just stop reading altogether and probably find a webcomic to waste their time instead. Biggest real obstacle to buying comics currently is the difficulty of actually obtaining floppies and the high cost (both physical and digital) of maintaining it as a hobby.

When was the last Valiant thread?
Manowar? Ninjak? That weird white guy from future Japan?
Seems weird that Anons would forget about them.

>Comics still 3.50 to 4$, and do not deliver a level of value that matchs the price.

Until the big two understand that they need to lower prices, and should stop feeling entitled to remaining customers making up for lost customer sales, then they can go fuck themselves.

I also dont intend to pay for books that hate on me as a consumer demographic.

I'm not kidding when I said they paid shills for publicity. They actually got caught red handed a few years ago.

Saved a pic?
I need to see this.

As a pirate who occasionally pays for shit I genuinely enjoy - can confirm.
Whenever a video game I want to pirate turn out to not be available - I just play free shit, or stuff I already bought.
Recently, I kinda wanted to see a series from Collegehumor that's only available on their paid site. Every week or so I checked if it's available on pirate bay - and it wasn't - so I just went back to letsplays on youtube.

>Maybe if the pirates had no way to pirate it, they wouldn't even know about it and still wouldn't buy it anyway.
This happened the first time Mega was shut down, research showed that pirates would talk about the thing they pirated and recommend it to others who wouldn't pirate.

I am a mid 30s boomer with plenty of disposable income. I rarely buy floppies or TPBs anymore because I just can't justify how inconvenient they are. I can search things I want in 2 seconds, download them in 10 seconds, and read them on any device DRM free instantly for all eternity. You can't compete with that. My house is full of shit, I don't need more things taking up shelf space unless it's something I'll enjoy for a long time. Last thing I bought was a set of Gwenpool TPBs because I really enjoyed them.

100k downloads of a comic equates to about 500 lost sales. Significant but a drop in the bucket if your comic is selling 47k copies. Make a Patreon and shut up.

It's all about ease of access. It's way too difficult to buy comics currently, even more so if you don't live in the US. Physical copies are pretty much only sold in comic book shops and those are harder and harder to find.
You could buy them digital through comixology or something buy then you'd be paying the same $4 for 20 odd digital pages as you'd pay for a physical copy. That's just way too expensive.

On the other hand I could just install an app like Tachiyomi or whatever and have pretty much every comic I could want in front of me within a few clicks. It's an easy choice to make.

They should just go full Netflix instead. That helped lower tv/movie piracy because suddenly watching something on Netflix was way easier than downloading something for most people. The comic book industry just takes way too long to make this step, and the small steps they do take (like dc universe app) are region locked and half-assed.

This. There are so many shitty comics out there now, I pirate first and then buy what I like. Unless it's a series I've been following for a while.

Their logic is flawed. It's not like all the people pirating would have bought the comic.

>Poor children who can't afford a few dollars yet want to act tough online
Slit your throat and stream it bleeding out.

Actually the majority of rich people are very frugal with their money. Only the Shitty second and third generations of rich families spend their money like they have an infinite supply.

Should stop conflating pirated with lost sale. Most likely not even one of those 101k would have bought the comic if the pirated version didn't exist

>Actually the majority of rich people are very frugal with their money
This isn't true and frugal for a rich person is not paying for everyone's dinner all the time. It doesn't mean stealing a book.

Fucking kill yourself if you excuse piracy in any other instance than a storytime hate read. That's the ONLY non-lost sale. Foreign fags can shop online.

This is a bullshit line trotted about by retards and children who never have to pay for a thing let alone books.

Go steal other shit and use this as an excuse.

Mate unless you're a cartoonist you have no right being mad at piracy, and if you're a cartoonist, you're probably shit, because the ones I pirate are still publishing shit and getting jobs all the time so maybe piracy isn't such an issue when you're good.

dislike, faggot.

>Mate unless you're a cartoonist you have no right being mad at piracy
Oi m8 noice b8 ya got there oid r8 et 8 oudda 8.

Kill yourself poorfag. You should never actually enjoy acting like a spic let alone defend it.

Yes it is. Most first gen rich became rich because they were good with and understood the value of saving money retard.

You've already displayed you don't know what frugality mean and you're not going to "prove" your assertion. So why should anyone give a fuck what you say?

"The rich" (go ahead and tell me what rich means, as in what number does it start at) didn't become "rich" by pirating books online, let alone comics.

>Marvel and DC (because other companies don't matter) STILL haven't adopted the style and practices of the manga industry
>Marvel and DC (because other companies don't matter) STILL hold onto the archaic "comic book store for le nerds XD" model
lmfao it's literally THE CURRENT YEAR, guys, wtf

Then don't read American comics if you feel that way you complete sperg. There are still European comics.

>spic who's dad owns a garage and barely breaks even thinks he's rich and that it's okay to not pay for comics because rich people just steal shit

>implying 1 download = 1 sale
I thought the music industry solved this problem already.

Who the fuck is even talking about spics or whatever boogeyman you created this month you schizophrenic piece of shit.
Your patreon-funded inflation fetish comic isn't making bank because you suck, it has nothing to do with piracy.

They're chinked afterward

>>Marvel and DC (because other companies don't matter) STILL haven't adopted the style and practices of the manga industry
Which practice haven't they adopted?

kinda hard to buy floppies often in trumps america horrendous economy

>spic is angry because he was correctly called a spic
Most books funded by patreon wouldn't need that if readers didn't steal shit once it was released.

It literally does. The music industry is much bigger and can face the losses. Small time hands on bandcamp and shit are making a fraction of what they would have back in the day selling CDs from their trunk.

In the streaming era piracy is robbing them of plays/views as well.

The works I've been pirating don't seem to be needing patreon either so again, maybe it's a quality issue.

Selling your shit OUTSIDE of specialised stores, for one.

I'm a eurofag and I can buy the most popular comics in my local grocery store.

The cca, no contest. Basically DC and marvel killed comics back then and now they're out to finish the job. Hopefully once and for all, since they're only affecting their own sales. lol what losers.

>Selling your shit OUTSIDE of specialised stores, for one.
This is what put most print media out I the last decade. They can't afford to pay for unsolvable copies like non-LCSs require.

So is this you admitting you don't know a thing about sales?

>doesn't reference a single one by name

Unsold *

why the fuck do you even care you fucking faggot.
I'll humor you and post you my immediate backlog, everyone is dead or still working in the biz

Attached: here you go you fucking faggot.jpg (2505x505, 393K)

Because us oldfag piraters never tried to lie to ourselves tha what we were doing was fine.

It crippled several industries and made it so only corporations could compete. Piracy only hurts the non-corporate backed media.

Why do you children lie to yourselves as if your some Robin Hood of media. You're shitty little thieves that's it.

Internet killed comics as well desu

because money is required to live

>Wide distribution
>Genres besides "superhero"
>Straightforward continuities
>#1/volume 1's that are actually the fucking start
>Good art

Holy fucking shit you fucking cunt I've been pirating pretty much every media I consume for the past 15 years. It IS fine, as far as I care, because I don't make half the money any of these oh-so-poor artists make, so I couldn't give a fuck, but my argument wasn't that it's morally commendable or whatever, just that maybe the book is failing because is shit, since good books still make money.
Also, if you were an "old pirate" (lmao), you wouldn't even try to suggest piracy is theft.

50k generates enough money to live.

I don't understand why people buy comics. I read some of them when posted but they're 90% fucking awful.

>It literally does.
Wrong, every study, poll, and finding on the matter shows that 1 download is not 1 lost sale.
ifpi.org/content/library/DMR2009.pdf

at MOST it is 10% turnover rate. As in 10% of all downloads may have equated to a lost sale.

Meanwhile, studies actually show that piracy BENEFITS creators.
cdn.netzpolitik.org/wp-upload/2017/09/displacement_study.pdf

This is literal scientific data so if you disagree, that's on you not me.

Attached: 1543847844492.png (480x222, 160K)

So you just enjoy making shit up it really think DC and Marvel are all that exist?

>I'm a poorfag that makes less than poorfags
>me me me
>I, me, not you, not they ME
>ME ME ME
you sure told me.

thanks for your input

Also you can do more reading about it here if you're interested, but I doubt that you are. You're only here to proclaim that massive publishers are your god and how offended, jiffed, upset, triggered, and rustled you are that other people don't worship them the same way you do.
bigthink.com/david-ryan-polgar/video-game-piracy-may-actually-result-in-more-sales

The other publishers are way too small and they claim to have the same problems, regardless.

Like others said, every series I've read pirating and liked, I then bought collected editions of it because I genuenly wanted to support the creators.
TPBs are just the best way to experience a comic, and look good on a shelf.

First off two non-connective "studies" prove nothing. Secondly anyone who thinks two non-scientific studies are scientific proof isn't worth conversing with. Thirdly, the first link basically concludes that corporate backed projects MAY (not will) gain traction because of word of mouth. There's also the fact that bands can tour and sell merch to supplement these losses.

Yeah, me me me me me me you fucking faggot, I need to eat, pay my bills and pay my rent.
If this was 1980 I would be screwed and would have to depend on whatever people or the library had to lend me, but now that I can just download shit I never thought about for free, there is absolutely no reason not to do so, specially considering I buy a bunch of books whenever I can.
Again, if you're not a victim of piracy, you're just a cuck, and if you're a victim, maybe your work is shit and people are only consuming it because they're free. Too bad we don't have a global platform for sharing shit for free and absolutely no techniques whatsoever to monetize said free shit you're sharing. If the work being free hurts the profits so much, webcomics shouldn't exist.

twitter.com/JimZub/status/1113049951305715713
archive.fo/VGRMF
>Comics [sold through comiXology] are incredibly easy to pirate. They're just taking a screenshot of the full page, or two screenshots of the top and bottom and then reassembling.
What are actual physical scans especially from those that yet to fully embrace digital like Scout Comics

We've already been over this with the games industry and the music industry. People who pirate and never buy the product wouldn't have bought it in the first place and those that do pirate it and are willing to pay for will actually do so. It also doesn't help that comics cost more money than ever while still providing less content.

>What if I'm subscribed to Marvel and DC's digital services? And buy trades? And buy some floppies?
Then you're not the one he's talking about.
Trades and collected editions are the superior format for sure, and I don't see anything wrong with pirating to sample a series before buying it. But I think he's referring more to those who allegedly "support" a series by following it pirated, then complain when it's cancelled.

NO, Yea Forums, he's not talking about people who pirate in general who were never going to care about those stories in first place. It's about those who don't put their money where their mouth is. People who feel sad about X series dying but didn't even bother to give it money to keep it going, because these people need to eat too, and drawing and lettering isn't cheap.

> ME ME ME
Are you fucking retarded? Of course it is about me. Do you think those, oh so helpless, artists are creating shit to benefit humanity's souls? All they care about is money, so that's what they're after. All I care about is content I enjoy, so that's what I'm after. I support what I can and that is fucking it. I don't owe (((them))) and especially (you) anything, shill. Do you also sperg out at people who lend their books to their friends?

>It crippled several industries and made it so only corporations could compete.
Which ones? Hard mode: nothing that wasn't already run by large corportations

This is embarrassing.

My dude don't fall for the same mistake as me, there's no point in arguing with someone who uses the term "pirater"

So... your “solution” is:
>Dramatically increase the cost of distribution
>Reduce the price of the product by half
>Hire only the most expensive artists

Yeah, I can see a few flaws in this plan. Also, you don’t even mention writers... guess you don’t care about the quality of the writing?

>Do you think those, oh so helpless, artists are creating shit to benefit humanity's souls? All they care about is money, so that's what they're after.
Oh you were baiting this entire time. Cool.

>It's about those who don't put their money where their mouth is. People who feel sad about X series dying but didn't even bother to give it money to keep it going,
So... /co.?

>People who pirate and never buy the product wouldn't have bought it in the first place
Proof? You're likely under 25 and don't remember a world where getting shit for free didn't exist. People bought shit and were disappointed.

he's right though.

This is embarrassing.

>"The rich" (go ahead and tell me what rich means, as in what number does it start at) didn't become "rich" by pirating books online, let alone comics.
Of course they didn't you loser, there was no such thing as online back then. But they totally would today.

>MY COMICS IS PIRATED
why do they care, they only get paid to make it, and get nothing on the sales.

Basically yeah. Because frankly I don't see the problem with people pirating Heroes in Crisis just to roast it, they weren't gonna pay for it and it's obvious. But then they go and pirate shit they actually enjoy, by writers they like and... Don't even buy the trade? Or support the artist in any way?
And then they have the gall to say "wow it got cancelled, this sucks! Why is this particular obscure team killed off? I want more of that!"

I live in a third world country so it's ok for me

Studies that proved this were already posted.

Mate, I'm an artist (not involved in comics at all) and I have a day job precisely because I know my art isn't necessarily commercial and I don't wanna compromise my work, and this is the oldest notion in the fucking book. Hell, yesterday I was watching a Duchamp interview where he says he got a job to paint and he stopped painting around the 1910s so we have at least a 100 years of this.
If you don't care about money you put your shit out there for free and find your own way of sustaining yourself.
I'm thinking about this, how much less money on shit I would have spent if I could have pirated all the shit I had to buy or borrow as a kid.

>he

Why is it so difficult for you to understand people have to MAKE A LIVING so they can support those fucking authors they enjoy? Hell, they need to make a living so they can find out about authors they might potentially enjoy.

I have a pull list of 18 series at my LCS, fuck you if you think im paying for champions tho, only shit that's good/I love the character enough

This is embarrassing.

This. I've also been pirating manga for longer and it doesn't seem to have put much of a dent in their sales numbers.

>I-i promise I'm not 12
Embarrassing.

>The industry discovering people pirate the content then buy phisical of only what they enjoy...
I could have told them if they asked.....

Comics brought it on themselves with the SJWs and digital releases

t.he

Nigger you literally used the expression "old pirater", there is no way in hell you're older than most of my students, but again, I will just pirate anything I want and my age remains the same, whether you accept it or not.
On many aspects I'm dying to know what book you're working on or protecting so hard just so I can not only pirate it, but will personally send pirated copies to everyone I know that might have read your book.

It's not difficult at all. If I paid for everything I read and consume, well, I wouldn't be able to remotely afford it. But there's certain things that deserve at least some chipping in. Obscure stuff in particular benefit A LOT from some contribution, because these people also make a living out of this.
It's a cycle, and I'm not saying you HAVE to pay for everything, just out of necessity, for the things you want to see continuing. That's the crux of my argument here. Keeping it only related to comics (because I could talk about music where I feel more comfortable), some series are basically already paid for and don't need your money, even if they're really good. Stuff like Green Lantern, Immortal Hulk... They COULD benefit from your money, but they aren't going anywhere if it doesn't happen.
Other series though? Indie stuff that's paid with the creative team's effort? That's a different subject. Things like Seven to Eternity, with Opeña's art, look expensive as fuck. So maybe buying a trade or two sporadically can keep the wheel rolling. It's not an obligation, but it's all about dealing with that feeling of entitlement a lot of non-supporting "fans" that think they should get what they want without giving something back.

>thanks for your input
Sorry I'll be more specific to the posted image. The reason they see sales going lower and lower is because the first iteration was not that good, it was good enough to buy once but the quality was obviously below what someone would pay for, while getting it for free is less time invested overall. If they want to be paid for what they make then they should make stuff that is actually worth paying for rather than mostly bullshit.

Comics are not THAT expensive, I am of course talking about tpbs here and not floppies. You should be able to spend 15 dollars on something you like instead of bitching about it getting canceled when you didn't buy it.
A good example I have is that if you go though the last 20 /shelf/ threads, so all the shelf threads of the past two weeks or so, you'll notice a lot of bitching that Ostrander Spectre was never fully collected, then I urge you to look though the shelves posted and see how many people actually bought the first two trades that got released. Now, to put thing into perspective, there was almost an entire year between the release of the first trade and the second, so there was plenty of time to buy at least the first volume before the series got canceled.
Unironically speaking, most of Yea Forums still buys the shit they bitch about like Heroes in Crisis in floppies over the shit they claim to oh so love like New Super-man. Yea Forums is the prime example of not putting your money where your mouth is.

You should definitely buy Green Lantern over Seven To Eternity because not only is it much better but Morrison puts way more passion into his work than Rick "please make an adaptation out of this" Remender. If you wanted to name an actual indie series you should've actually looked beyond Image or at least beyond one of their biggest names that has comics run for several years at a time no problem.

You just reveal your ignorance of piracy. In your mind, if a pirate can't get X comic, he will think something like "I have to buy this one". This is barely a fraction of pirates and even those will prefer the smaller quality possible even if the prize is $0.99. The majority will just move on and pirate other thing or wait for someone to pirate that comic.

>baiting
Name one artist since the creation of art who complained about sales when all he wanted was to create. The shit they want to put out into the world for the sake of art, they do with no concern for money. If people like it, the money will come. Otherwise they find something else to do to make ends meet and make art on the side.
Anyway, here's your (you), shill. I hope they pay you extra today since you did such a good job. But I doubt it. They're being ravaged by pirates and can barely afford to pay their artist. Or did you think we're the ones ripping off your industry creators?
Don't spend them all at once. Save some so you can afford the next turd they publish. Don't disappoint them user. The whole industry is counting on you.

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It was the first example I had because it's probably one of these with the best art I've seen, not trying to compare the two (and you shouldn't try and derail the argument to see which is better, that's dumb and besides the point).

It's simply not feasible for me to support floppies and ongoing series for shipping reasons. I know indies deserve all the support they can get but the truth is, if those guys cared for my money, they would have some means of publishing their stuff where I live.
I know France in particular has an actual government grant for translating your shit to whatever languages you can find a publisher, but no one is even trying.
>Comics are not THAT expensive
what the fuck are you talking about you nincompoop, compare comics to any other form of entertainment and unless you start to get into some real money sinks like war gaming or card games, comics will be by far the most expensive. I don't even know why do you insist Yea Forums (or any given pirate population) will have similar reasons to pirate, I do because the comic market in my country fucking sucks, importing books is simply out of the question most of the time and a single national trade is around a week's worth of groceries for me.
Also, keep in mind that whatever indie stuff I'm currently reading, I'm only doing thanks to shit like Win-O Threads or getcomics because I wouldn't even SEE these books in the first place if I relied on the specialized press (both my country's and the US's).
I've mentioned Ed Piskor some posts above and the man has put almost the entirety of his comics work online for free and yet all of his stuff is constantly sold-out on the storefronts I frequent. "Selling books" is but one way of making money, the very same platform that allows piracy also allows a bunch of other ways to make money off your work.

They also didn't buy shit comics either, retard. Make something not awful and I'll consider purchasing it. Make shit and I never will.

I'm just saying that you didn't actually name a series hurting for cash. Hell, due to the nature of how things work in this shit industry, Remender and Opena probably make more money off Seven to Eternity than Morrison and Sharp do from Green Lantern, but at least one group is professional enough to get their work out on time instead of hitting the consumer with delays.

>It's simply not feasible for me to support floppies and ongoing series for shipping reasons.
Same for me, I don't live in the US and it would be ridiculous to expect me to do that. I buy the trades and collected editions though. (same guy you replied to)
>if those guys cared for my money, they would have some means of publishing their stuff where I live.
This is a pipedream, unfortunately. I ship the stuff I really like from the US, and it's usually the things I really care about, because I can't afford the shipping prices to do this regularly.

Maybe if they weren't making shit comics, they'd sell more. It's a wild idea, I know.

>I am of course talking about tpbs here and not floppies
Retard

What country do you live in, Goran?

I think it's agents being incompetent, because Dan Clowes and Enki Bilal (two very different guys) not only come out under the same publisher, but the ENTIRETY of their catalog is available in translation, while guys like Harvey Pekar or even Moebius are very scattered, both in publisher and catalog completion.
The trades available for me are still worth a month of groceries, either because of national prices or importing tariffs.
You don't need to know that, Billy Bob.

This Its only worth the time to read if its free.
Like many tv series are only worth to watch if its in a package or paid through ads.

Pirates are a fucking cancer.

‘Durrrrr I’m so entitled, I will steal your hard work and not pay you for the privilege even though I have no talent and deserve all your effort and time and I’m a loser Incel’

Great job trying to destroy these industries you fucking pissbabies

name a single industry destroyed by piracy other than bootleg vhs

Wanna know how I can tell you're a Tumblr refugee?

>stealing
you are mentally ill and incapable of living with normal people who do work of real value

comic books aren't worth paying for

>buying digitally colored American comics
Fuck you and your wacom. If you can't replicate your art in front of me during San Diego Comic con, you don't deserve the 200usd.

I give my USDs to European authors or whoever still does traditional coloring.

I'm from an eastern eorpean country but I can't buy groceries for a week with 15$, it's really not a of of money. Salaries are lower here but spending 30-50$ on a hobby/month isn't going to cause me to starve. Time to get off your couch and work instead of waiting on welfare, Zoran.

>Blackberry
Lol @ Canada.

>mtv
>youtube

>books
>internet

It’s hilarious since manga and anime get pirated more, yet SELL more.

this kind of shit is why the entertainment """"""industry"""""" has no right to exist.
we would literally be better off without this worthless shit being shoved down our throats under the threat of social irrelevancy for non-consumption.

Unless you're teaching 30 year olds idk about that.

>teacher is a social media obsessed faggot
Not surprised.

>get out of my collapsing industry whitey slayyyy!

>teacher saying nigger
I'm dying to know your name so I can get you fired.

>a world where getting shit for free didn't exist
you mean your selfish, friendless little world? you understand that people shared books, movies, music, and comics with their friends and families FOR FREE all the time?
are you really THIS stupid?

Implying people would buy them if weren't free. You "pirate" them because they are free, if you had to pay for them you just would live without reading them.
The same way you go theaters to watch the movies you like, you only donwload the movies you wouldn't pay for anyway, if you had to pay for those other movies you simply wouldn't watch them.

>The same way you go theaters to watch the movies you like,
that's being an obedient slave, "I like it" was never an excuse to burn 12+ dollar for a fucking hour and a half lol.

I'm black,stealing is part of my culture and heritage to upheld

>would live without reading them
BUT THATS IMPOSSIBLE WHEN SUCH INTELLIGENT AND THOUGHTFUL CONTENT CREATORS LIKE THIS EXIST:
>literal tattle tale on an anonymous image board
fuck me

Is there really a higher demand for anime and manga compared to floppies these days?

I just buy omnis. 3/4 of them end up being worth more than I paid. Blind buys are okay- because you can just unload the book later if you don’t like it. My collection is worth 1000’s of dallars more than I paid for it.
You will never, ever save your way to prosperity.
T. Formerly trailer trash- now rich guy with lots of comics.

BASED BIKE STEALER

I cant even remember the last time i pirated or bought a comic, thats how shit i think current comics are.
>This isn't true and frugal for a rich person is not paying for everyone's dinner all the time.
Bitch as if you know anything about how fucking cheap a billionaire can get. These are the same people who if they discover a life threatening design flaw have accountants run tests to see if which is more expensive recalling the product or waiting for people to die and then paying off a lawsuit.

youtube.com/watch?v=0Qkyt1wXNlI

you'll always be trailer trash

user...

>you are mentally ill and incapable of living with normal people who do work of real value
>He says on a website that harvest your information without permission then sells it to advertisers
Dumb faggot

What

i intentionally feed the beast incorrect information, as a joke

Mate what you get in your country doesn't really make any difference in what I make in mine, I don't even know why you (and that other guy, assuming that wasn't you) think ethnicity have anything to do with it.
Living costs will differ from neighbourhood to neighbourhood, comic prices will vary from country to country (40 dollars is usually what I have saved for my various hobbies every month and this will get me either 2-3 soft cover tpbs, which are mostly modern big two shit I don't give a fuck about or 0.5-1 hard cover book that I actually want).
If you were 30 years old you wouldn't use the term "pirater"
>These overpriviliged comic artists whining about their books not selling are in the right
>Some dude from another country using the word nigger on Yea Forums deserves to be fired
The american "left" has sure done a number on you eh, you asshole.
>Never once do I mention social media other than a youtube channel about comics
>Still obsessed with social media
you can talk to people irl
Yeah because when I was a kid I sure as fuck had a friend with a huge complete comic library and not a bunch of other equally broke kid friends.
Again, you're very young if you think the availability of media was anywhere near what we have now just because you could borrow shit. Movies for example, I don't even know people who had "A movie" up until the DVD days, back then you were reliant on whatever your local rental shop had which was more often than not "recent blockbusters and some b shlock we got for free for buying this other movie".

I feel like Zubbolts deserved the nothing I paid for it.

I enjoy not giving the beast a sale . Unless i enjoyed it immensely

Oh no wonder you're poor as shit. You're a teacher.

Still better than being a dumbass.

Change your distribution platform idiot

Being a teacher is the same as being a dumbass.

well I'm sure yours probably were judging how you came out

/thread

To destroy this pathetic industry that refused to grow or change.

>dumbasses teaching dumbasses
It’s cyclical nature is why America is going to shit.

It's a global problem, that of dumbasses teaching dumbasses. America is just worse off because they are on average dumber. And fatter.

Yeah, I'm gonna have to agree with one of the best selling authors in the world (whose work I only got into through piracy and whose main comic work I have in it's entirety physically btw)

go on and become a teacher so more dumbasses won't be born you fucking neet faggot, see how easy it is

Sales declining sharply after the first book is a natural progression for american comic books, it's not really piracy causing it but the non-pirating customer base being fickle.

Are you having a seizure?

Pretty much all the stuff on my bookshelves and game library are things I tried first. Through friends, through piracy... through sitting in a bookshop and reading shit for free for hours. Same with music, come to think of it.

These fampai

I'm just waiting for the comics industry to have the same realisation as the novel-writing industry did in the 1800s. We no longer buy newspapers every day to be able to read a book a chapter at a time, filled with cliffhangers for each chapter, and if someone told you that you must do that or the finished book would never be "collected" at the end then you'd tell them they were fucking crazy. You just buy the finished book written without the weekly cliffhanger plot and enjoy it in one go. The same thing simply needs to happen with comics, sooner or later.

The ones whose work is either not good enough to get a publisher, or who can't afford to self-publish yet, would be helped more by making it a webcomic and getting a following before the printing. That's something they've got an easier time with, compared to book-writers.

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Stop bullshitting. Piracy made difficult made me buy stuff, and I almost never buy what I can pirate.

People who say they buy the works afterwards are full of shit.

That's retarded, comics aren't dated games with shit graphics. You should be buying nice editions of the old ones that won actual awards or got acclaim, and get the new untested ones for free to see if they're any good.

See Numbers dont lie. The opinion of some asshole on the internet do not hold as much weight as the facts laid out by a creator working in the entertainment industry.

This is how it should be. I’m not going to waste money on shit I don’t like.

I'm going to pirate it so it gets cancelled faster
Serious talk tho those 101k pirates are probably just 20k people who opens multiple times

It helps if you actually followed video game news and the controversies with DRM. Or followed the music industry as it went from suing people left and right to putting out encrypted music files to just selling mp3's that could be used anywhere and now we're at a point where music is just streamed and you don't even need to buy the music but just pay a subscription to have access to whatever music you want. I forget the numbers but Witcher 3 was said to be illegally downloaded millions of times and yet it was one of the best selling games of the year it came out.

We've been over this so many times when people actually blame piracy for lack of sales they are ridiculed and criticized for it because it shows ignorance and an inability at realizing that paying customers will pay for your product if they really want to.

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I first read Sandman thanks to some rather low-res scan collection on TPB, before there were any digital versions around. I've now got all the Absolute editions on my shelf. I would never have run into any issues of Sandman over here if online piracy hadn't been a thing. I probably wouldn't have bought the Gaiman books I've got if it hadn't been for it either.

>'It's okay I buy the trades after I pirate it'

You do realize this still jeopardizes a comics's longevity, right? It's an unfortunate circumstance but monthly sales are what keep a book going, if we're talking strictly about serialized series at least

I know. I married up too. So despite my fancy education and accolades- i’m the roach on the wedding cake.
Shit that happend to me as a kid don’t just wash off.

>I'm a huge faggot
>everyone must be a huge faggot like me

Sounds like you’re just lacking morals, don’t judge an entire board with your petty standards.

piracy is bad for new authors with zero following and great for established veteran authors with fans.

So if it's your first time. Try to produce something good enough, enough rich people will buy your doodles on tissue paper

I have no idea what the fuck that's even supposed to mean, sperg. I gave you an option of what else you could read if you're not happy with the state of American comics.

>Why the fuck are you going into an artistic venture for profit?
Because people require food and warmth to survive

Yeah but I pirated years after the monthly came out so your argument holds no water

you say things like this but i wonder if you would also be accepting of the slower timelines and possibly lower overall quality that would come with people having to do artistic ventures purely in their spare time while working a "regular" job to live.

Not my problem.

see: When it eventually happens it will be for the better, and prolonging this inferior state benefits nobody except Diamond.

Japs have literally ZERO clue on how to pirate anything.
Even then; I doubt they would do it as it is not honorabru

I literally do not care. There are millions of comics out there.

Other way around. I mean, this industry is ass backwards but everywhere else the new guy is going to get the buck from people that pirated and liked because they know it matters. Sometimes the veteran that peaked years back and is only doing good, definitely above average stuff might not get the buck, or at least not get immediately.

Nippon is stuck 30 years in the past.

Go dig up holes, fix cars, become a teacher, sweep the street, whatever. Don't go into an artistic venture for profit.

I feel if you can’t adapt to how shit is done nowadays you don’t deserve a pay check.

You’re retarded, japs pirate just as much the fuck. The fuck do you think a pirate anime has to put in “only scum pirate” not even being sarcastic that shit happened.
Shit just check Japanese YouTube like sites it’s full of anime being openly pirated

It's not an argument, just stating the well-known facts. And good for you, I'm sure the creators are lapping up those nonexistent royalties you're giving them

Okay chief

If people were pirating to kill off the monthly system it would've happened ages ago. If the majority really want to affect matters they should stop buying issues altogether and tradewait, as most people are starting to do more frequently anyway

They still sell really well in America, France and Germany.

Trade waiting in general kills smaller comics. If you trade wait Batman or Spider-Man's main titles then that's fine as it'll keep going either way with good sales. But something like Spider-Man and the X-Men, Omega Men, Sideways, and Foolkiller need those month to month sales to justify it's continuation. If comics got three years and its existence also depended on trade sales that would help but the industry isn't that patient.

Maybe don’t release shit floppies that are fragile as fuck

>not a argument
It’s clearly an argument you made a false premise that I debunked and now you feel salty
>creators are lapping up those nonexistent royaltie
Only the good ones and even then lapping is a stretch.

I won't buy floppies cause I'm not retarded.

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It will be a problem once people stop making comics because they become unprofitable except to big companies. Enjoy reading 30736947387 capeshit comics. That's what you get for expecting high quality shit for free.

artists who work as artists don't deserve respect if they've lost their touch with the common man
most never had it

piracy is mostly a distribution error not a moral one

>It will be a problem once people stop making novels because they become unprofitable except to big companies. Enjoy reading 30736947387 Penny Dreadfuls. That's what you get for expecting high quality shit for free.
This is what you sound like.

"smaller" as in "big two"small. I can't think of a single situation other than the og Image guys where cartoonists wouldn't write a contract based on "releasing x issues" instead of "just write this while it sells". Judging by their publication schedules and their series format, even huge guys like Mignola, Allred or Steve Rude have similar contracts (and it's actually beneficial for the creator, since once the series ends, if it didn't sell well they can just try on another publisher).

You won't guilt-trip me! I'm a pirate and I'm proud!

I'm not defending piracy, or saying that everyone, or even most people are telling the truth when they say they buy media after they pirate, but a few do.

The first to fall when shit will become unprofitable are going to be the capeshit and they'll take the hack fanfic writers and the fast and "dependable" fill in artists along with their best friend editors with them. People passionate about comics will self publish and they'll go to patreon and shit. Other than that, comics will survive in their many forms in the other countries just fine.

>Jim Zub writes capeshitfor marvel will continue to write capeshit for marvel
you sure showed me.

What the fuck are you even saying

I think you really are underestimating how little big two creators make compared to indie or self-publishing

I'm gonna be real honest here: if I didn't pirate comics, I probably wouldn't read comics at all; and those comics that I REALLY enjoy, I go on to buy, but that is very few

I'm not a heavy reader, I don't follow any of the superhero on-going comics, but I've bought the omnibus' for Sandman, The Boys, Punisher MAX, and a few others because I enjoyed them so thoroughly when I read them via piracy

Who would pay 5 bucks for a thin pair of pages stapled together with unbearable leftist morality lessons inside? At least Jack Chick tracts are thick and free. I'm only buying those big compilation books so it feels like I'm holding something heavier than a pamphlet.

Yep. Hence why Music and videogame piracy are so low.

People respect Van Gogh because he suffered for his work.
No one respects capeshitters who borrow someone else’s work and do it for a paycheck. All the while insulting their customers.

Mate your argument is really shit, because no one other than a handful of people respected Van Gogh when he was alive, very much the same way the world at large didn't care about Jack Kirby for most of his life,

>ITT:fancucks who bitch because people are wisely holding back their money from buying literal shit.

>this is an ongoing process

Yup pretty much, I’m waiting for em to die. You really gonna tell me Jim Zub who “borrows” the avengers and their story lines can compare with Van Gogh or Kirby? Get real

>le ebin suffering artist ideal

Fuck off retard. I'm sorry dumb cape comics don't cater to your own personal sexual fantasies and backward politics

I don't even know who Jim Zub is, if you told me he only writes comic essays about how Lost Girls should have more anal sex I will have no option but to believe because I don't even care about who Jim Zub is enough to google him, but the fact is that your standards are a bit twisted and your notion of "artist losing touch with the workingman" not only doesn't relate to Van Gogh at all, who was almost a town fool for the "workingmen" in the places where he lived, but it doesn't even make that much sense, because neither comic books or visual arts, two areas I'm very passionate about, have really related to the working (or non-working) man for a good 50 years now (and no, cape movies don't count because those people clearly aren't moving any books of the shelves for the most part).

>Van Gogh drawings cater to sexual fantasies and politics
You are just a special type of imbecile aren’t you. Please enlighten me about the politics involved with the starry night.

Actually strike that. Art hasn't related to the "working man" since the middle fucking ages, whether you think the peasants in revolutionary Paris were discussing the works contained in the Louvre or not. It has always been a rich man's game, and the advent of modern art sure hasn't helped (which really doesn't mean you can tell me how "yeah, modern art sucks brah!" because you already established you like Van Gogh), and the only times it did relate to the working man, it was done intentionally and for ulterior (whether benign or malign doesn't really matter) motives.

I pirate thousands, but I still spend hundreds at my LCS. I give what I can afford.

>megaupload
Literally a site that paid you for pirated content. I made $72 back in the day uploading something capeshit in brazillian and Hindi, i was just some retard using ARES, and tried it out so i could buy a nintendo DS, but there was tons of people doing the same thing

>didn’t even bother to read op
>doesn’t even know who he’s arguing for
Then why open your mouth at all?
>
Post modern art you cretin, or do you actually think glasses on the floor can be considered art. And yes art is for the working man it stirs up feelings in their heart. But apparently none of that means anything for a pleb like you.

Artists are the scum of the earth and they deserve to be poor

I've never met a single one who wasn't an insufferable whiny faggot

>You're only here to proclaim that massive publishers are your god and how offended, jiffed, upset, triggered, and rustled you are that other people don't worship them the same way you do.
Or maybe, juuust maybe, he's here to spout hot opinions so people like you will acknowledge his existence in the form of (You)s.

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Depends. If those glasses are dropped by someone on a gallery or are in the floor anywhere else they're not art, but if they were intentionally put there, they are.
Also, post-modern art isn't even a single thing, the "glasses on the floor" is just some shit you took from some clickbait article, but there are people producing all sorts of shit under "post-modern art". Hell, yesterday I was reading a book about Billy Childish, a very post-modern artist (and yeah, trying to refund modernism in the 2000s is post-modern as fuck) and he's pretty much just ripping off Van Gogh.
Again, it's the same issue with comics, you want the shit that caters to you to come to your doorstep.

Actually no you’re right I agree art is for the rich I’m just a poor dumb pleb who Can’t purchase their art.
Their rich patrons will surely bail them out they don’t need us it’s a rich mans playground.

I was referring to your 'insulting customers', which I take to be your way of saying 'a creator I have the privilege of following on his own personal social media account said something bad about something I enjoy/believe and hurt my feelings'

Also, the romanticization and glorification of the 'suffering artist' ideal is what's led to this notion that artists only work in their own self-interests and expression, and not for any financial gain/compensation.

>you want the shit that caters to you to come to your doorstep
Well, see, some shit comes to my doorstep. So, my doorstep is reachable.
Some shit caters to me. So, my tastes are doable.
Why wouldn't I have standards and expect both?

How little do they make? I've heard stories of Big Two trying to get big indie or self-published creators but getting turned down by them.

I have absolutely no interest in comics, I have never bought a comic, I have only ever read a handful. All of them pirated, because I wouldn't have bothered if I had to shill out cash for one. You can't lose sales you wouldn't normally get.

Your boomer mindset doesn't take into account that the goods are non competitive. Me reading a scan doesn't keep an actual costumer from buying.
>But then everyone will want the free ones user!?!
Then your product is shit, like most comicbooks are, if you can only move copy's when it's free you have nothing of value.
Intellectual property is a (((invention))) used to protect monopolies, nothing more.

> And yes art is for the working man it stirs up feelings in their heart.
I'm a working man and post-modern art "stirs up my feelings" so I assume post-modern art is either good or not post-modern.

>I have absolutely no interest in comic
>(((invention)))
Opinion discarded. You can go back now.

>he can't separate the art from the artist
Lul and you call them insufferable whiny faggots?

Which is why there is so many agenda driven comics. Only people who are willing to put up with low pay get in their.

> clickbait
That’s postmodern arts entire schtick trying be “thought provocative” when it’s clearly just insultingly bad
Does it really? Please explain the feelings of you get when you look upon California’s “the levitating mass”

Big Two plays well but you can't really move up. As a literal who, getting paid 200 bucks per page is great, your shit might get shitcanned in 12 issues but that's a year's worth of work for an artist. And even then, as a literal who your first comic would get shitcanned at 7 instead and you would've only lost money instead of made money. Kirkman and Remender talked about this a few years back but their earlier work still hadn't paid for themselves despite being over for 10 years.

Have you ever considered not being such a faggot user? Like really if it's just dick you want to suck you don't have to latch on to the big two. Come down to /r9k/ they'd be more than happy to take you up.

Because you are living in the most disperse time in human cultural production you fucking dolt. Unless you specifically look for what you want, you'll be relegated to whatever some algorithm writing schmuck managed to have amazon or whoever sell you because those big conglomerates ain't about to lose that money for some 16 yo EDM producer or cartoonist in Malasya.
If you truly had high standards, you'd have realized most of everything produced is shit and would already be on the lookout for the smaller stuff that isn't coming to your doorstep, and if you're trying your best to hide what comics you like, your asinine notions about post-modern art make this very clear to me.
It's a flat rate per page (you can find this easily) + some doe if your book sells over X number ofc opies or some of your characters get licensed (though this is still a very sketchy process as far as I know)

More like gun is bad and everyone who owns one is evil. He says as he writes an invincible capeshit who is impervious to bullets.
Not thinking about hunting or protection or any of the myriad reasons to owning one.
>suffering artists
People suffer to see their work realized not just artists that’s why It appeals to some.
Look at post modern art and the artists who don’t suffer you really think any one is going to remember a giant metal slab.

You can look up the numbers for a rough estimate, but beginner rate for artists at Marvel is $250 per page, DC is around $275 I think. Those rates CAN go up but only if you've put the work in, are hot shit or can push for it the right away

That was someone else and you didn’t answer my question about what recent post modern art you like you cowardly piece of shit.

I don't even particularly care about Levitating Mass (I had to google but remember studying it) but you picked a particularly strong work. It creates a very serious tension about how we're all subject to nature's whims, how absolutely trivial we are compared to a huge fucking boulder, but at the same time how much we're willing to terraform and "expose ourselves to danger" (yeah, that shit won't fall down, but it's very hard not to think of that). The feelings that these sorts of questions create in my working man's heart are of both dread and awe, at some level I'm even willing to throw a bit of disgust, not at the boulder being sold as art, but at humans' fragility and arrogance.
Also, it looks really good and striking, I won't lie.
Also, post-modern art isn't clickbait, post-modern art is anything produced from the 80s onwards, there isn't a clear categorization, there isn't a clear concept, the main characteristic behind post-modern art is just how vast and diverse it is, but of course a faggot like you don't even try to understand these things, preferring to go by LITERAL clickbait articles and sensationalism instead of your own brain and senses.
No one thinks the "working man" (again, lmao) will enjoy the works Thomas Pynchon, Niels Bohr, Peter Higgs or Bruno Latour, I don't really understand why art is different.
It's an academic discipline produced to a very specific public which knows what to expect and how to deal with the things presented. If you're on a comic board, at least once you must have crossed paths with someone who didn't want to get into capes because there's this huge, overwhelming backlog, and the same is true for art, except you also gotta understand the theory. The fact that you think Caravaggio's or Giotto's paintings pretty doesn't mean you're getting everything thereis to get from baroque or renassaince painting, only that you think they are pretty pictures, and post-modern art produces plenty of those.

Comics are fucking awful. It is just a fact that they serve no purpose but to sell paper. They may have had a couple of decades of cultural influence, but they are mainstream and are sterile as fuck. They appeal to the wrong kind of demographics and should have stuck to niche markets.

>Theft isn't theft cause muh reasons
Kill yourself kid.

I don't pirate but I buy used/unsold backissues for $1 a pop years after they've been released. Is that just as bad though?

>faggot won't just say his name
Go ahead tell me your name I'll tell you my book.

Billy Childish, Peter Doig, Berna Reale, Yoko Ono (and the Fluxus people as a whole), Joseph Beuys (bit arguable if he's post-modern though), Lawrence Weiner, Kumar & Melamid, Cildo Meirelles, Josef Kosuth, Francis Allys, Jifi Kovanda and that's just from the top of my head.

No, because that is a legal transaction.

You're just the same faggot who asked me to post what I'm reading (only to promptly ignore) and will also ignore my post about which contemporary artists I like as well

Intelectual property is retarded, copying isn't a crime

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Yeah but I don't think the indie guy is getting any money from that, and the big two don't really give a fuck about second hand sales. I just do it because I like having floppies on hand to read every now and then. The major problem is space since I've already filled a shelf and I don't really want to dedicate a huge space for comics.

Here's the real solution
Make your shit easily available digitally, sell season passes at a slight discount for digital releases.

The future of comics isn't in print, accept it, evolve.

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I've been buying the Invincible TPBs solely because of the huge storytimes we've had here on Yea Forums. I would never have looked at the series before then since it had a reputation as edgy garbage.

Look at you reaching for the stars. 10 million dollar to “answer” a question no one asked I could make gullotine and put it on display all the while preaching how it means the futility of life, memonto Mori, and death to tyrants charge 10 million and some sucker would praise my genius.
But for those of us with a brain it’s painfully fucking obvious its a random boulder
>clear categorization, there isn't a clear concept,
That’s because it’s a fucking fraud but instead of calling it out you get down on your knees and suck em off. You’re the reason art has gone to shit and then you have the gall to stand there and ask why people don’t want to purchase garbage.
I like Caravaggio's and Repin and it’s not just cause it’s pretty but because of how dark and humane it is.

But if we can’t blame piracy we have to accept we made something nobody wants

Aren't trades sold calculated by LCS presales for self-space? So regardless of what sells beforehand, those trades are already sold.

If those are the artists you like there’s no arguing with you.

none of those anons, but I've spend hundreds on digitals comics over the past year

there's little excuse for non-North American or non-Europeans to pirate all of their comics save for claiming poverty, but it's going to happen and some no-longer third world countries like Russia and China encourage it among their population

>you are living in the most disperse time in human cultural production
Yeah, but it's a doggy dog world for all intensive purposes.

I pirated Zubs new comic Stone Star, it seems like a pretty good all ages story but I'm not going to pay comixology 6 bucks a month to rent comics.

Definitely couldn't see this response coming no matter what artists were listed.

It's not necessarily that they believe downloads are lost sales.

The second book, in comparison to the first book, was downloaded more. So hypothetically, it's more popular. But it sold half as much. And the same trend continued. The point seems to be that piracy is getting worse.

I legit it mean it though. Though I am impressed you actually listed them

Fuck comics

Mate, you asked what it stirs on ME, not what IT OBJECTIVELY MEANS.
If you look at it and think "god I wish I could fuck that boulder" it's a feeling stirred in your heart.
If the best you can give about Caravaggio is "how dark and humane it is" you should probably reevaluate your conceptions of art.
Woah mate now if the last guy had some REAL insightful thoughs you are the reencarnation of Lionelo Venturi and Clement Greenberg in a single package.
I feel like you tried to be very smart in showing how I was wrong but "disperse" is the exact term. There isn't a single global cultural capital or leading movement, only pockets of producers and collectives spread through the world, working with their own themes that eventually overlap.
Biennales and other similar shows exist for this, very much like a World Fair in the 19th century, but you would only know this if you tried to engage with contemporary art instead of peddling sensationalist bullshit.
You're not replying to me there, cunt.

The problem we face here is potential buyers.
Someone mentioned somewhere in this thread, what if these books are only worth free2read, so people will only read it for free but never would buy it.
The same problem has youtube, who pays for youtube redseries, when you already get so much free stuff on youtube. This just means youtube red is mostly nothing worth to the mayority of users.

>Caravaggio is "how dark and humane it is" you should probably reevaluate your conceptions of art.
Am I being judged by the user who enjoys boulders on platforms? This would mean more if you didn’t have shit taste.

Ah yes, such quality titles like Rick and Morty vs. Dungeons and Dragons as well as social justice Champions 19-27.

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No shit sherlock

You're being judged by the user who offered you his opinion on a work you thought unopinable while you could only pic the most obvious keywords possible for the movements those painters were inserted in, while also conventionally using an artist I already mentioned and the most obvious, memeworthy, "LE SLAV SOUL" painter that gets posted on literally everyboard with "post a pic get some recs" and yet you think you're in position to judge the entirety of contemporary art production.
This isn't even replying to anything I said in my post you mouth-breather.

I have the feeling that is not correct. The artist sounds like the downloads are compared to the sold issues.
If you want to cherrypick, it even sounds as if the downloads decrease too. Because he doesnt say the numbers, but "downloaded more" and "many times downloaded".
Regarding the sold drop this could means that downloads halfed too.

And the initial numbers are theoretical number 1 issues ordered by lcs but next issue the lcs corrected the numbers they really will sell.

No I’m being judged by a sucker whose never read the emperors new clothes thinks himself virtuous and full of sage wisdom when he’s clearly as dumb as that boulder he praises.
The only reason I didn’t go in depth about the eyes belies grief or how this art demonstrates the duality of men with one willing to sacrifice his life for the murderer is because it’s painfully obvious to anyone who isn’t a complete pissant.
But then I realized you’re the type of person who enjoys drawings two steps above Wojack memes

>Japs have literally ZERO clue on how to pirate anything.
whatisthisidon'teven.png
Nigger, half of Nyaas traffic is from Grorious Nippon.

Mate holy fucking shit, you're the sucker here, you're giving the most milquetoast, commonly accepted opinions on works you barely even know how to read in the first place.
I didn't even said I LIKE the fucking boulder, my first sentence in the post is that I don't particularly care, but if you want my opinion on what it evokes, hell, this is what it evokes. If it doesn't evoke shit to you, maybe try studying more art history and try to understand where contemporary art is coming from instead of deciding you are the sole judge of what good art is and the entirety of the art establishment has some crazy ulterior motive to keep going.
If anything, you come off as thinking you have some sage wisdom, because for that boulder to get there, a lot of people, I'm sure some of them smart, had to allow it to get there in the first place, and yet you think you know better than those people and literally anyone else who took any enjoyment of the work because you think the rock is "dumb" (the truth is, it just doesn't conform to your very limited conception of what art is).
Also, you have absolutely no idea what type of person I am, nor what type of art I produce (and the little I produce is at least "technically competent", if a bit expressionistic at times). You don't know half as much as you think you do about art, people, comics or life, try being more humble.

The best route should be give the first chapter/book for free online, and the rest has to be bought.
The amount of entitled commies in this thread who pretend free art though, holy shit.

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>commonly accepted opinions on works
Yeah because that’s what’s been discussed about these drawings no ones gonna say well this art of is really a picture of Judith engaging sex with her lover in foreplay gone wrong it’s painfully obvious she’s murdering his ass to protect her country.
>if it doesn't evoke shit to you, maybe try studying more art history and try to understand where contemporary art is coming from
I did she had nothing good to say about it why do you think I can talk about these drawings that I randomly just pulled it off my ass for no reason.
Also there’s evoking and then there’s teaching like you trying justify meaning where there is none. And for the guy who’s judging me about no knowing art you didn’t even know that particular one till I brought it up.
>be more humble
And Fuck off back to tumblr and then stay there.

I don't know why they insist on mass publishing floppies with the high standard of paper that they should just reserve for trades.

Very easily.

>Why are people pirating my paint-by-numbers story with generic art?
Maybe if storytelling hadn't gone out the window and authors working in comics weren't either re-treading another writer's work, or trying to sell me on a generic TV pitch turned comic, I'd be interested. It also doesn't help that the same writers from the 70's, 80's, and 90's are still the same people writing today. No new ideas, no new blood, and the same mistakes every week.

People like you are the reason I sail the seas and seed. Keep on fuming, kiddo.

>I sail the seas and seed.
You're a gay sailor who likes being bukakked?

no, with YT i can DL movies and songs for free.
does that hurt anyone? i can get most albums off YT with the shit tons of "song+lyrics" videos that i can just get the mp3 from.

i haven't bought music albums in like 20 years.

Me neither. The last album i bought was 7 years ago. Otherwise i watch/hear youtube for free.
But i meant that only a handfull use youtube red, because the free yt content is a big competitor and pay series are trash!

why pay for no ads?
ad blocker is free...
i just don't think there is one for phones

There is it’s not great though

>Poor children who can't afford a few dollars
>a few dollars
3-5$ for what's 15 minutes of entertainment at most, not even guaranteed good entertainment at that, is never gonna be considered a worthwhile purchase by anyone.

you are not including the tie in issues.

reminds me of Metallica whining about Napster

If I'm pirating something I would never buy it. That's just me though

Honestly when I like a book I want a physical copy, at least the TPBs

I read the issues and if it was good or had something interesting I want a physical copy though I think I prefer a TPB but because of the cover or something often I want the floppies too

I would download shit if it was free, if I couldn't pirate it I wouldn't buy it either because I don't care that much

>I'm gonna get you fired for calling me what I am lol

he forgot to mention you're a faggot too

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You seem to have missed what that was a response to.

Pretty much, yes. You want to improve the situation? Kill Diamond.

I’ve been listening to self-publishing podcasts lately and it’s weird how the attitude to piracy in indie publishing circles is completely different. The quote I remember is “I’m not afraid of piracy, I’m afraid of obscurity.” It’s common to make the first book of a series free, or give readers a whole “starter library” of an author’s work. They’re all heavily focused on building a mailing list, which I have never heard a comics or webcomics person mention, ever.

They are not afraid of piracy, because they are not big enough and see it more as advertisment.
Big players have a big production, big loans behind it and need to get every dollar.
And the big players that are really just one man shows are greedy or accept piracy as needed advertisment.

I pay for stuff I like because fuck supporting actual shit. If you want good comics, let them know with your wallet.

>MUH PIRACY
Outdated bullshit. Nobody is going to pick shit up sight unseen nowadays.

A lot of these people are transparent about their numbers and those numbers are often staggering. Their stories about the gold-rush early Kindle era and scammers making 100k in a day with a novel they bought on Fiver because they knew how to pump the Amazon algorithms blew my mind. Those days are over but there are still housewives in Omaha quietly pumping out a romance novel or two every month and quietly raking in millions of dollars.

The email list is a fundamental principle of internet marketing that took about ten years to become de rigeur in self-publishing. The reason it did is because successful Kindle authors tend to be entrepreneurial people who are always looking for ways to improve their business. People in the comics sphere don’t seem as quick to adapt.

Those are pageviews, not sales.

In fact, here's a citation.

Pageviews, not sales.

desuarchive.org/co/thread/43469216/#43470103

Attached: Steve Lieber Underground Pageviews not Sales.png (618x127, 18K)

They aren’t even learning from art YouTubers like, say, Baylee Jae who gets millions of views and vlogs all her methods for everyone to see.

why the fuck would I pay 3-5 bucks for 19 pages+ads when I can pirate it and wait for the 8 dollar trade?

If I like the story, you bet I'll buy it.

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You need better headphones than a ATH-M50x

I've since moved to some NAD VISO HP50s, which I like more.
I almost never use them, though.

I will when publishers stop using parasitic, consumer-unfriendly practices.

Those ain't really an upgrade.

never said they were, user.
I said I liked them more.

Jap companies and laws make piracy a bitch but they find ways around it. Jap anime companies had to ban the importing of American DVD/blu-ray collections as because they were dual audio the Jap fans would just wait for them to come out since even importing them was cheaper than buying the overpriced discs and sets.

Nobody is picking up Champions sight unseen from a no-name like Jim Zub though. You seel by getting eyes on your product and piracy means more eyes on your product. The real issue is that the concept of floppies is outdated and new methods of distribution need to be looked into.

Greater digital/online for instance with good readers. Digital first comics are fucking shit most of the time. It'll be really interesting to see numbers regarding the revamped Shonen Jump app because if that model works well then Marvel, DC and other comic book companies need to start jumping on that.

>It hurts

GENTLMEN! BEHOLD!

THIS MAN IS MY NIGGA!

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hell yeah dude!

even got it signed by Gob.

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I don’t know where to buy comics

instocktrades.com/

Nice art request.
I was just yesterday on the can thinking how I want to buy that volume from him.

like, in real life?

I need to pick up the other volumes, myself.

This, I only read because it's free and webcomics have conditioned me to expect free content forever.
I'd just not bother if there were no way to read the comics for free.

Huh, thanks

That too I guess, never see em

I'm a content creator and a thrid worlder, so i know how fucking expensive some media can be and is why I encourage piracy. I know by heart that if what you create is good, people will support you, no matter how, be it shills, monetary donations or anything.

It's all about knowing how to market, giving a free sample and hooking your audience.

Gain their loyalty, then gain their bucks
No matter the media you're creating.

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What Zub doesn't realise is that I want his books to get cancelled

>And then they have the gall to say "wow it got cancelled, this sucks! Why is this particular obscure team killed off? I want more of that!"
And then they complain about SJWs not buying comics.

No one buys comics, it's not just "SJWs". Unless your'e all ready to accept every single unabashed pirate ITT is indeed one of the feared ess jay dubyas.

lol that's what marvel and dc want you to do though

they don't actually make money off the comics, at best they break even, they just keep putting books out to serve as 30 page long ads for the movies and merchandise

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>Author claiming more people read later volumes of a series than earlier volumes
>Author straight up lying because no series works like that except Narnia

You're fucking stupid. Japan has just as bad as a piracy problem, the only difference is instead of a cease and desist from your ISP, the cops'll go kick your fucking door in for uploading One Piece episodes.

To be honest anyone who watches the One Piece anime deserves to have the police kick down their door

gnu.org/philosophy/words-to-avoid.html#Piracy
Publishers often refer to copying they don't approve of as “piracy.” In this way, they imply that it is ethically equivalent to attacking ships on the high seas, kidnapping and murdering the people on them. Based on such propaganda, they have procured laws in most of the world to forbid copying in most (or sometimes all) circumstances. (They are still pressuring to make these prohibitions more complete.) If you don't believe that copying not approved by the publisher is just like kidnapping and murder, you might prefer not to use the word “piracy” to describe it. Neutral terms such as “unauthorized copying” (or “prohibited copying” for the situation where it is illegal) are available for use instead. Some of us might even prefer to use a positive term such as “sharing information with your neighbor.” A US judge, presiding over a trial for copyright infringement, recognized that “piracy” and “theft” are smear words.
torrentfreak.com/mpaa-banned-from-using-piracy-and-theft-terms-in-hotfile-trial-131129/

>Japan Comic Industry panders to the consumer
>American Comic Industry panders to the current zeitgeist which is now Political Correctness in Comics.

LOL

>>Japan Comic Industry panders to the consumer
no it doesn’t

That's weird because that file name "Underground Sales" is the filename of the picture on his blog, which was also posted next to this picture.

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Linetrap is an artist now?

>no it doesn’t

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Then who is it pandering to?

what is the difference of copying a file and borrowing X item from a friend?

in both cases im getting to use it for free.
UH OH!!!!!!!!!!

better stop people from sharing Netflix and others too!!!!!!!!!!!!

oh shit! robot!
i bought those way way back!

those people are pussies

if i wanted to put out my own shit in 2019, i who have been pirating since like 1999, am aware that fucking people will ALWAYS PIRATE.

fuck these people thinking they can stop it.

I wish they'd hurry up and release the rest in English...

Care to name some of those podcasts? Seems like a good listen

absolutely
PBs for manga have way more content in them compared to say, a collection of the newest Spider-Man storyline. You're getting a good chunk of story and artwork for around $9-$20 with manga depending on the book while TPB for comics are roughly $20-$40 but contain a fraction of what you'd get
Heck even if you wanna look at "floppies" for manga in the US there is Shonen Jump and even that contains a large selection of stories for a reader to justify purchasing
Plus with floppies if it's not a popular guy like Spider-Man or Batman it's definitely not going to do as well compared to a manga filling a niche for a specific audience and that sort of thing is exactly why manga as a whole is doing better than comics

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i only had 1 and 2, i didn't know they put out more.

I've got 1-5.
I'm pretty sure #6 is translated, but I've never seen 7-10 except in Japanese.

I'm so tired of this,

lol, the absolute entitlement. if you really enjoyed reading stories you'd pay the creators. people who write the stories you enjoy can't live off your general good feelings you dumb bitch

I'm surprised it hasn't gotten to a point where buying shit on sale is considered a heinous crime.

Same. I keep up with many of the series I like month-to-month via pirate sites, and then spend like $200 per month on TPBs down at the comic shop, so as to have the sturdier, more readable versions of the stories in my permanent collection.

I like to think that my spending outweighs my piracy on an economic level.

Almost none of those downloads would translate into real sales.

The fact that they lost so many readers book to book is also indicative of a poor product.

No business has EVER been pirated to death. Piracy only thrives around products that have substantial success.

99% of the stuff I've pirated is stuff I'd never have paid for in the first place. The remaining 1% caused me to actively go out and buy physical copies of the stuff because I enjoyed it so much that I wanted to support the creator.

This.

A lot of what I've pirated is also either no longer in print or has never been collected in trades.

Takubans are like 8 dollars for 180 small black and white pages on cheap paper.

40 dollar trades are 200+ pages of colored comics on larger glossy paper. Anything more expensive is likely a hardcover or Omni.

>Diamond
can you elaborate on that? From what I understand they distribute comic books, but what do they do wrong?

This. This is akin to skimming through a comicbook in a bookstore.

Ever notice how it's only the mediocre creators who complain the most about piracy?

Ever notice how it's only the mediocre creators who complain the most about piracy?

Long story short, Diamond is a major gatekeeper to the industry that literally runs it like a mafia.

They bought out smaller distributors to insure dominance; locked out small-time publishers by setting a sales threshold only major companies can reach, fudge said sales based on the amount of titles ordered by shops, and completely disregard digital sales.

I have a shitty life and job, I need the money more than you do.

Ironically, Alan Moore would rather you pirate Watchmen considering they keep that in print just so the rights don't revert back to him.