There are never any Flash threads

No. Just no more 31 century or 25th.

This is the worst opinion. Anyone who would recommend Barry shit, much less Road to Flashpoint and Flashpoint, is either trolling or has the shittiest taste imaginable. There's maybe two good stories in that entire list.

But user, everyone travel to the future!

I legit thought the New 52 was a good start for Flash. The opening arc against a man who could literally be in many places at once was a great fit, but the naturally superpowered rogues and everything that came after made me care less and less until I dropped it.
Manapul's art is gorgeous and a great fit for the character, at least.

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It's been like half a year since they established that. Don't expect it to last.

New 52 Flash is basically just Manapul's art portfolio. Not really good for getting into The Flash so much as getting into Manapul's art. 99% of the stuff from that run doesn't matter anymore. Shows how much staying power the writing had.

There's plenty of Flash threads. The're just all about Wally and people bitching about him because Barry came back.

Start with Born to Run and go from there.
That's how I got into the series

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Not gonna argue that. But at least it was pretty to look at.

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THIS - very much this

Silve Age Flash is the place to start. Ignore the idiots trying to push Rebirth and read some of Wally's run after the Silver Age books.

Hot take: Barry Allen, while maybe not a better Flash, is objectively a better person than Wally ever was or will be. Wally is manipulative and willing to put his friends in danger to get his way. See when he told Jesse Quick she’d be the next Flash in order to make Bart jealous. Or when he put deliberately put Hal in danger in order to get a leg up on Barry during Flash War. He is also much more selfish. While Flashpoint was undoubtedly more damaging and all that, it was an accident. Wally purposely attempted to destroy an elemental force of the universe for the sake of two people. He is also a hypocrite, earlier he told Barry not to trust the Renegades because they dressed like Rogues. Not two issues later he was trusting someone dressed up as Reverse-Flash.

You’re talking as if Wally West, in any way, shape, or form, is a good character.

And here comes the Barryfags on damage control

Not damage control. It’s just my opinion.

Wallyfag

See the problem with modern Flash stories is that all writers give a damn about is The Speed Force and evil Speedsters. Whenever The Rogues show up, Grodd, or anyone else that's not powered by gofast it always feels like fucking filler the writer doesn't give a damn about. I think the only recent villain they did that had any sort of hook behind him was Bloodwork, and they did jack shit with him.

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Wally is way more flawed but also more human. In his 90s run when he won the lottery and then lost it all and basically became a hero for hire? When he crashed a dinner the rogues were having and kinda had a good time with them because the guy they really hated was Barry Allen? When he met fucking Castro.
Meanwhile, Barry is fast but ALSO a csi so he can use his scientifict knowledge to szzzZZZZZ...

Yes. Read the entire volume 2 and don't bother with anything else. It's the best stuff of the character. Flash hasn't been the same since 2006.

I’ve read: Born to Run, Blood will Run, Chain Lightning, All of Millar and Morrison’s run, and I just don’t get why Wally is in any way special.

Not to say Barry is “special” either.

I’ve read Wonderland too.

You guys remember Mob Rule? Did they just ditch that guy entirely because they thought it better to just rip Metroplex from Firestorm? Come to think of it, it's pretty fucked up how much stuff they took from Firestorm and just gave to Barry

I’d like to see him again. Ironically hating Flash and being buds with Barry

I always though of Mob Rule as a slightly better Deadpool, in that he can duplicate himself.

That’s all. Deadpool is better as a character obviously.

>You guys remember Mob Rule?
I only ever read him in the Manapul run and thought it was a great concept. Then again, when Flash becomes too fast he becomes as unthreatening as the next guy.

Wasn't he like a super soldier? He had an insane healing factor to the point where the bits hacked off also grew into more Mob Rules, only they lived for a short time. Surprised he didn't sell himself out as a super merc squad

Yep.

Last we saw of him he was slicing off his fingers in jail. I kinda want him back though.

Probably the prettiest The Flash will ever be. The "DC Comics Presents" layouts were fantastic.

List of timelines and thus trillions upon trillions of lives Wally ended because he was sad his mommy died: 0

Barry: yes

Flashpoint: Accident

Destroying an elemental power of the universe: On purpose

Barry Allen trusted EOBARD. THAWNE. In Running Scared. Literally the man who killed his mother. As opposed to Wally, who faulted when he trusted the man who used to be his best friend, who had seemingly come to his senses and just reminded him of his long lost family.

You tell me who's the bigger fucking idiot when it's about that.

Barry also did the exact same shit you're talking about, saying "You're The Flash" while scheming behind Wally's back. Do you not remember Perfect Storm? The comic where Barry told Wally that and then spent the next five issues talking about how the rest of the team sucks and how the only solution is for him to get his powers back? Even though Wally had the entire scenario figured out and was on his way to solve the problem before Barry fucked everything up by playing into Grodd's hands?

Fucking christ, Barry HELPED HIM try to break into the Speed Force. They're both culpable there. Saying Wally endangered Hal is stupid as shit because Hal was just exhausted from trying to stop him. Wally didn't even hurt him.

This. Plus Flash of Two Worlds

If you don't think Wally West is a good character then you probably just don't think most any cape comic main character is any good. His character arc is fundamentally well developed to a degree most cape heroes can't compare and he has a number of excellent stories centered on his character. Even if they're not to your tastes, which is fine, they're still finely written and sensible.

True.

Wally is still a hypocrite

Barry helped him. Wally didn't help Barry kill an entire universe. Also, Barry DID break the Speed Force. Back when he time traveled in the New 52. Future Wallace had to come back and die to fix it you fucking idiot.

The Fundamental difference between Barry and Wally is how much being the Flash means to them. Barry’s life wasn’t moving anywhere until he became the Flash. He needs to be The Flash to function. Wally was willing to give it all up for Linda

Yeah. Pretty much every hero has a bit of hypocrisy somewhere in their writing. It'd be silly for me to say either Wally or Barry was not a hypocrite.

But if your point is that Barry is a better person or hero than Wally because X or Y, then Wally usually has Barry beat. That was only true before Barry was brought back. Nowadays Barry's a lot worse than Wally ever has been.

He broke time, not the Speed Force.
And once again. There is a big difference between ACCIDENTAL and PURPOSEFUL.

Not only was he willing, he did. A couple of times. When Iris died Barry just went on to a new piece of ass in a whirlwind romance. Which is kind of funny considering Wally was the flighty horndog early in his career.

accidentally causing a nuclear holocaust is better than purposefully breaking a vase, I see

I was honestly forgetting the whole “Trusting Thawne” bit but that doesn’t defeat my point of Wally being a hypocrite.

Wally can apparently. He even left a body that was five days old.

Fuck, why is that second post in there?

This.

Wally trusting Hunter is not being a hypocrite. You might call it a personal fault, but Wally has a long history of trusting and believing supervillains who have reformed. He did it with Cold and Glider. He did it with Piper and Chunk. He did it with Fallout and Trickster 1.0.

He's had mixed results in believing a villain has gone straight. But it's certainly well within his character to trust and believe Hunter when Hunter isn't talking in weird, insane, jagged speech and whatnot that originally drove him crazy.

You can maybe say he is a fool, you could potentially say he's brash or reckless, but he's not really a hypocrite there. If anything, his comment about the renegades is a bit hypocritical from his entire career. But at the time they were trying to arrest his Mom/Aunt Iris and he was just snapping at Barry for believing and going along with them.

Turns out he was fucking right, too, because it was a giant stupid trap. So much for Barry being so great, huh.

I could have put that better. Yes, Wally’s arc is PHENOMENALLY written. But he simply isn’t a character I like. I’m not WRONG for liking Barry better.

The last likes 5 times both The Rogues and Grodd showed up it was under the main writer at the time. Everyone of Manapul, Venditti, and Williamson have used them.

The Renegades never set up a trap you fucking mong.

Great. I get that you might like Barry better. I assume most people would favor whoever they started with. I just think it's silly to say Wally isn't a "good" character. He's certainly, at times, been a great character even. Usually is a good character. He's certainly one of the better characters DC's ever had on their roster.

He doesn't have to be one you like, though. And I get being defensive because people who prop up Wally as such a great character often say so at the disrespect of Barry being a worse one. But you shouldn't take that personally.

Are Waid's and Johns' runs collected?

Of course they didn't, but it was just such an obvious, stupid ploy that Wally's immediate instinct (this is dumb and bad, we shouldn't go along with these guys because they're just showing up and telling us what to do) was right. He only acquiesced when Iris forced him to.

Intuition is a quality trait to have as a hero.

also one of them was literally using a yellow lantern ring which is fundamentally evil so, you know, good sign there

Barry will simply always have a special place in my heart because the first comics I ever read were Manapul’s run.

This was pre-Yellow Ring reveal. But cops can inspire a lot of fear.

Johns' run is collected, both in TPBs and Omnibuses.

Waid's run had the original trades from ages ago, but is only just recently getting a new collection. They're about halfway through. Look up "The Flash by Mark Waid Book 1/2/3/4 etc" and it should pop up. I think they're going to call the second half of his run "The Flash by Mark Waid and Brian Augustyn (editor and co writer)" and renumber it just to confuse people, but those have not come out yet. Seems to be selling well enough since they didn't cancel it after Book 1.

Re-read the post. Sure they're used, but it's almost always inconsequential and filler, setting up something fucking Speed Force related next

That's fair. I find those comics incredibly mediocre and Barry incredibly mediocre in them aside from the art, but I'm sure I'm biased by having read Wally first and preferring him.

I wonder, are you bitter that basically everything from Manapul's run has been discarded? Stuff like Patty, The way the Rogues work, Mob Rule, Daniel West etc?

That's really all you ever get from The Rogues, though. Short of Rogue War they're always one and done caper kind of bad guys. You can't set up a big, personal plot arc with a whole team who isn't actually that personally invested in The Flash. They just see him as an obstacle.

I’d like to see Mob Rule again. He was cool. Screw Patty though. How was the way the Rogues worked any Different?
Also I think it would be cool for Daniel to return as either Wallace’s Reverse-Flash or being trained to be a hero by Wallace.

>not liking Born to Run
I just don't get it. It's like THE best superhero origin / first year to me with only Batman up there

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Yeah but didn't Wally essentially go "SEEEE?" when that happened?

Everything in that situation smelled sour, even if The Renegades weren't aware of it. Wally having the right of it isn't some knock on him, especially when it comes to family he literally just reconnected with.

I never said I disliked Born to Run. It just didn’t make me like Wally better than Barry.

Yeah, I don't get how anyone reads Born to Run and think Wally's a bad or lame character. It's one of the most wholesomely and charmingly written origins around.

That was Wallace. That said “Seeeee” but Vendetti, way before this, established not all Yellow Lanterns are bad.

Then maybe it's time just to give them a solo book already. Because frankly they're more interesting than Barry at this point

Especially compared to Barry's origin, which was "I'm just a normal successful dude who now has SUPERSPEED" or, for modern fans, a dead mom origin that was literally never even shown, just alluded to as having been done.

Good Origin > Bad Origin is a good reason to like one character over another.

Rogue ongoing is currently all I want in life.

To be fair, you can't blame me for not reading something by Venditti. But I think my point stands in general. Guys dressed up as bad guys doing a bad thing: Wally is suspicious. Guy who was a bad guy, but was also his best friend, apologizing for his actions and attempting to help him in a moment of desperation: not so suspicious.

Wally also had firsthand knowledge of the reboot trapping him in the Speed Force and he could reason that his kids were there just like him. Hell, he was right kind of in that Bart was there.

Vendetti’s Flash leaves a bad taste in people’s mouth, I understand but his GL is 7/10. Except for the limited emotional energy retcon. That was dumb.

I don't disagree with you. The last like 3 Rogues "Specials" they did were just great.

Was that Venditti?

Manapaul is a fucking god.

I fucking hate Godspeed. It's like some jackass said "Let's do Zolomon again", only dumber and now a forced Jason Todd of the Flash Family. Fuck, just bring Jay back already.

Put Godspeed on the Outlaws. That would be cool.

How about fuck that, and get rid of him? If you want to put a Flash rep on Outlaws, make it Pied Piper. He's not doing anything currently (I think), and he's sure as hell not on The Rogues.

Okay chill the fuck out.

Outlaws are garbage and Jason Todd is garbage. Making a Flash Jason Todd is the worst thing you can possibly do.

Eh his new 52 GL was weak his Rebirth GL was pretty good. Hawkman eclipses them both in terms of his DC work though.

Relax dude. Don't take it personal

I mean it could but he'd suffer from chronic jobbing probably so Jason can look cool, since realistically he'd be able to deal with most things Jason faces with hardly any effort. Frankly feel like Speedsters always have that issue when their on teams?

>and Jason Todd is garbage
>He hasn't read one of the best rebirth runs
baka

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Bizzaro is great. Jason Todd is a hot pile of garbage.

I'm glad you can pick out a couple of cutesy moments from the new run but it's still poorly written tripe that leans on "awww isn't he sweet to the retard?" too much.

Nah, shit taste

Let me put it this way. How in the fuck do you think Godspeed, of all terrible characters, will improve your AMAZING Outlaws comic?

Different person, I fucking hated Godspeed and dislike the current Outlaw run.
I just like Jason Todd and think he can be a good character in the right hands

Outlaws is great and finally did something with Todd that wasn't fucking retarded

I mean, it was retarded, but I guess he probably didn't fuck Bizzaro.

Don't start with Flashpoint faggot, start with Flash volume 2 issue 62

This is bad advice.
This is good advice

Barry fucked with time to help his mom

Wally is literally the best written main Justice League character. Read comics before posting faggot.

>It's a flash thread
>turns into a Jason Todd thread

come on jasonfags

Wally > Jay > Bart > Barry, also McCulloch Mirror Master best rogue

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You are correct sir