Has diversity in comics actually harmed sales?

Of course not, forcing SJW fake-progressive femynyst "diversity" has. Anyone who thinks ethnic or sexual diversity in and of itself is the problem with comics today is fucking retarded.

This. People hire others because they don't want a stereotype only to have these people write characters according to their own made stereotype instead. Midnighter is a great character who doesn't scream gay off a mountain, then we have Iceman who has become a stereotype fanfiction tier homo instead.

Yes. /thread.

what's with these leabian writers. it's like they want to be worshiped like gods or something and throw a temper tantrum when they dont get their way

Because diversity and SJW cult is two different things.

I just used Ice Man as an example, you're just making assumptions.

But /pol/ and nazis are one and the same, right?

...You do realize everyone is buying digital now? Even if they buy the physical copy where would they put it?

Digital is the way to go now

It's doing well for DC, but not so good for Marvel. Take a wild guess why.

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Identity politics, yes, as well as capeshit comics actually being fucking shit.

This.

Racial diversity within the industry has absolutely improved the quality of stories/output. However; I would strongly question the growing idea that a writer can only write their race, that’s absolutely false and dangerous thinking.

Sexual diversity has been hit and miss, as another user pointed out, you can have gay characters that inherently “work” like Midnighter and Apollo. Just as you can have gay characters that simply don’t ring true like Iceman and, all too often, the sexuality of the character becomes their dominant trait.

Gender diversity has, in my opinion, been absolutely awful more often than not. It’s all so shallow and they seem to have more interest in preaching their message than ...y’know... telling a story, especially a superhero story. A good chunk of these writers prefer to tell slice-of-life stories where the hero dresses in her street clothes and just hangs out with her friends. Which is fine if you’re writing your own original work but it’s really not what cape books are about. It’s nice when Bruce and Clark sit down with Diana for a cup of coffee to discuss the recruitment drive of the JLA (or whatever) every now and then but not all the time! ...and certainly not to talk about bed bugs or one of their friends being misgendered.

In summary; race = great, sex = okay but be careful (yes I realize the double entendre), gender = no thanks.

No. However, I've been to /pol/ like 3 times in ten years. Last time when my little pol happened.

that was weird
you asked a question and answered it in one sentence

SJWs want their warped view of diversity to englobe everything
one thing is a concept, the other an ideology wating to enforce a version of that concept
they might not be the same, but they are at least one sidedly related

well I mean it's just observing that behaivor its not really what it is, is it?

no its filled with extremists on both side and is pretty much close to chaos as you can get.

>Racial diversity within the industry has absolutely improved the quality of stories/output
you mean enforced racial diversity (we need X latinos, X blacks and less whites) or rather "pick the best people you can whatever their races are"? because the first is an absolute cancer, while the later objectively the best way to go, and the option marvel is not following

took caps iconic moment. this is why people dont like sjws they ride the coat tales of others and take credit.

Consider the following. SJWs want their warped view of anything to englobe everything.

Evidence of this? Just curious since you need to back this up.

well the problem isnt diversity, it's there version of diversity.

Shitty writing is the cause, poorly played diversity is the symptom. If you can do a gay, black trans-woman as an intriguing character first and a laundry list of identity second, great. Otherwise it's just lazy stereotypes through tokenization.

You can be diverse and not annoy readers/viewers in the process. The Power Rangers had hispanic, black and asian characters since day one; and no one had a problem with it. Same for stuff like Hey Arnold, Captain Planet or Rugrats.

Another entirely different is turning a skin color or sexual orientation into a speech that derails the story or the stupid "have black people write black characters or women write female characters" stunt they've been pulling for the last five years or so.
i.e. America Chavez or Mockingbird

You do realize sjws don't care about the people they claim they're trying to protect, right?

Of course. Why do you ask? You think we don't understand how dangerous SJW are or something?

Comic sales have been going down either way, but I don't think this forced diversity push has helped them any. Most "diversity" today is just virtue signaling, and the characters have little to them beyond being diverse. It also has a tendency to put people down for not being diverse enough. If you have a female character, don't have her spend all her time bitching about how much she hates men. That's a turn-off for many people regardless of what they have between their legs.

It's not all bad, though. I haven't followed Teen Titans in years, but I remember there being a character, Solstice, that was introduced just before the reboot. Kiran was Indian and she brought a bunch of Indian folklore to the book. Krul kind of overdid it, but it was still fun for the most part. It was good diversity because the difference in culture allowed the author to explore new plotlines that he wouldn't have been able to otherwise.

However, I still think the best kind of diversity is diversity you forget about. If someone brings up a black character, and you think about their personality, relationships, and how they've progressed throughout the story way before you think about them being black, I think that's a sign of diversity done right. You mentioned manga, which has virtually no racial diversity whatsoever. In fact, a lot of the time, the characters don't even have a recognizable race beyond being black or non-black. And yet manga sells significantly better. Why? Because manga puts way more emphasis on character and story. American media is too concerned with social politics.

tl;dr I don't give half a shit how much melanin a character has in their skin or whether or not they can pee standing up. I just want them to be interesting. I think the average reader feels the same.

comics gators like DnC EVS are still saying the main customers are white men and comic companies should cater to them while mentioning diversity in comics is fine.
whats this incoherent shit. they mean they want the diversity that only entertains white men? i understand they love the traditional style of capeshit and take it back from sjws but still their argument seems weak.

>Has diversity in comics actually harmed sales?
No, the sales has been shit since the late 90s and the comicbook industry is dying. And now Disney doesn't need the comics to develop new histories and neither Warner so I suppose that sooner or later the big 2 will close.

Comics now are just an ip farm that produces rehashed shit.
Wolverine is a great character, let's make 6 more .... Do you like Batman, we have 14 comics about him ..... we have one Spiderman for each country in the world .... Superman, yes we have arround 40 variations of him ...... Ohh Secret Wars was great 40 years ago, let's do that again ...

I think they care just dont understand at all and claim they do.

Comics have a demigraphics issue because 90% of the industry does one type of comic: the superhero comic. Normally this would be fine if there were any other big publishers than DC and Marvel (Image and IDW aren’t big, don’t delude yourself), but the industry is built in a way that caters to them specifically.

The big 2 probably noticed that their current audience of lifetime diehard fans are slowly dying off, so they need a bigger crowd of new people to take their place. They want everyone from men to women to whites to blacks to read their comics. Problem is, they think that just making a generic superhero, BUT (insert certain personal trait here) is the magical win all solution. That black man you want to desperate read Black Panther won’t read it if he’s not into superheroes and wants, say a sci-fi or horror comic. He’s more likely to read a manga that gives him what he wants, despite more than likely having a mostly Japanese cast.

Manga sells better because they target audiences in a way that isn’t retarded. They have 4 demigraphics a book can target, and the genre diversity within them are strong. They don’t go “WELL LET’S MAKE DRAGONBALL, BUT GOKU’S A GIRL”. To them, a girl reading a shounen manga or boy reading a shoujo manga is just a bonus (and this also applies to creators as well, like FMA and Dorohedoro).

TL;DR: DC and Marvel can’t accept that they need to move out of their comfort zone to reach the audiences they want.

It's ironic. SJWs like to claim that non-SJWs are racist bigots, but there was a study done last year that found that white liberals tended to dumb down their language when talking to minorities opposed to other whites. So yeah, they probably do care and they mean well, but they overcompensate because of perceived superiority. Really, really ironic in the grand scheme of things.

Diversity didn't harm sales
Shit writing did

delete this, it doesn't fit the narrative here

And yet shit writers ARE hired on the pretense of diversity. So it follows that diversity does harm sales.

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nah, see, if they hired good writers on the pretense of diversity it would be golden
but editorial is still obsessed with the brevoort school of retardation where pissing off fans is seen as the best investment

Except they're not taking credit? A scene like that is without question a call back.

He's saying that they're getting shit writers because they're hiring people that only care about diversity, and your response was, "Well that's their problem! They should hire good writers that only care about diversity, not shit writers that only care about diversity. Those dummies." Seriously, user?

>editorial is still obsessed with the brevoort school of retardation where pissing off fans is seen as the best investment
finally, somebody said it.

also, nice East vs West thread, OP. almost got me.

Yes. Any LCS can confirm this.
And stop calling it "diversity". Nobody cares if a charactet is black or a woman.
What nuMarvel did was the comic book version of The Great Replacement.

The entire discussion broken down to its basic problem.
I would say the best example of this is Riri. The problem was never being a Stark legacy, or being black.
The problem was that Bendis lazily wrote a stand-in for his daughters who could never be wrong.
Ewing writes her as a troubled young woman with great social deficits balanced against her technological potential.
A genius always struggling not to piss it all away with a careless word.
That's not to say Iron Heart is perfect, but one can tell the writer knows what she wants to say and how to transport that through a comic, rather than preaching to the reader bypassing the medium or shitting out an IP to attract movie dosh.

Nope. Writers are what harmed comic sales. People blaming diversity or calling anything "sjwshit" are not comic readers anyways.

What they don't seem to understand is that preachy virtue signalling and pandering doesn’t really satisfy anyone.
It's just as annoying for everyone else, no matter what the press bubble thinks.
And it's not as though only 2nd Muslim immigrant girls from Jersey buy Ms. Marvel.
Any book succeeds or fails on a general audience, not some tiny niche.

>But speaking at the Marvel retailer summit about the studio’s falling comic sales since October, David Gabriel told ICv2 that retailers had told him that fans were sticking to old favourites. “What we heard was that people didn’t want any more diversity,” he said. “They didn’t want female characters out there. That’s what we heard, whether we believe that or not.”
>He added: “I don’t know that that’s really true, but that’s what we saw in sales … Any character that was diverse, any character that was new, our female characters, anything that was not a core Marvel character, people were turning their nose up.”

theguardian.com/books/2017/apr/03/marvel-executive-says-emphasis-on-diversity-may-have-alienated-readers

Comics have been pretty diverse for like 20 years now, problem is these past few years some writers seem to think diversity is enough of a hook to carry a character.

As always, the problem with shit sales is hack writers.

Yeah, like he's gonna outright say "what we heard was that our fans didn't want any more from our current crop of writers." He isn't gonna throw them under the bus.

America (vol.1, 2017-2018) is a brave, political comic, tackling complex social issues.

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That doesn't work. By his own admission, people are still buying certain titles. It's the newer ones with the diversity focus that aren't selling. If the problem was just with the writers, none of the titles they write should be selling. At the same time, the two aren't mutually exclusive. A writer could be shitty because they put too much focus on diversity and not enough on telling a good story.

>It's the newer ones with the diversity focus that aren't selling.

How new are we talking about? Like 2016-new or when they started their push around like 2014 or 2013?

After /that/ West Coast Avengers issue, I'm no longer sure if this was Gabby or Kelly.

Why the fuck is Synder and King selling so much then

It's helped, but that doesn't get youtube clicks, does it?

We need another Spiderman book aimed at Mexicans.

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What does that have to do with anything?

>is
Are*

Here's an easier question: Which diversity books weren't selling?

>Diversity
>Snyder
user, Snyder just apes JLU. He's not doing diversity. He's doing nostalgiabait. Unless you mean Batman Who Laughs, but I fail to see what's so diverse about that.

It defines a very vague statement, so it's very telling that you're instantly defensive.

>wah wah white men
yeah real complex

Diversity hasn’t harmed sales. Diversity is fine. Bad writing has harmed sales.

I am sorry a call back by taking away caps punch?

No, he's responding to
>As always, the problem with shit sales is hack writers.
Not the diversity part. But that user also fails to notice there's different degrees of writing. You can do bad on the level of Heroes in Crisis but then there's also a worse level below it.

Iron Heart fucking blows, dude, and Ewing is ALMOST as bad as Bendis.

Dunno. I'm not a Marvelfag so I can't tell you which characters are core characters that have been around forever and which are reasonably new. All I know is that David Gabriel said that readers weren't shelling out on their diversity characters. I don't see why I need to prove something I already have proof of. You're the one saying he's lying.

Lol, okay.

>Ewing is ALMOST as bad as Bendis.
Bendis? Brian Michael Bendis? What's he do?

>Dunno. I'm not a Marvelfag so I can't tell you which characters are core characters that have been around forever and which are reasonably new.
Oh, so you're a fucking casual who picked up on some shit someone said here or on youtube, and take that out of context (because you admit to having no knowledge of context) to assume you're opinion matters.

Lol, okay.

>Proud Marvelcuck
kek

short term it may have helped sales a little but I don't think it's making much of a difference one way or another.

The industry has been on a slow gradual decline sales wise for a long while now, diversity whether forced or otherwise hasn't done much to change or hasten it.

>It's starting to get better with more diverse writers and experiences as opposed to a bunch of idiots writing stereotypes
That's wishful thinking on your part. What these "diverse" writers (they are only "diverse" by skin color and gender. They all have the same political and cultural philosophies which lead to samey storytelling) bring to the table is plain blandness as opposed to outright awfulness. But you still have instances where a Sina Grace will return and write the most cartoonishly stereotypical representation of his "voice".

I'm a DCfag, dipshit.

>take that out of context
What was there to take out of context? The guy said "it's not selling" and you expect there to be some further context to that? Like what? Again, you're the one saying he's lying.

You don't even know who David Gabriel is and why he has reason to exaggerate or omit or lie about something. He's a fucking marketer. Do you really think he's gonna say "Yeah, our diversity books aren't selling because people don't like our writers"? Obviously he's gonna twist it around to blame the audience.

It genuinely hurts that I was excited for this book when it was announced....are her creators still doing that totally not """"America"""" book?

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You know, I don't think that book is ever gonna come out.

Diversity is a result of bad writing.

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>I'm a DCfag, dipshit.
Then tell us something about DC and diversity.

>You don't even know who David Gabriel is and why he has reason to exaggerate or omit or lie about something.
Fair. I don't know much about him. However, I still think this is a reach. People being fed up with social justice lines up with US society as a whole. 75% of blacks, 79% of whites, 82% of Asians, 87% of Hispanics, and 88% of American Indians think political correctness is a problem. So yes, I think it's pretty believable that it's impacting comic book sales. And again, they are not mutually exclusive. Bad writers could be bad in part because they rely too much on diversity and not enough on good storytelling.

>75% of blacks, 79% of whites, 82% of Asians, 87% of Hispanics, and 88% of American Indians think political correctness is a problem.
This seems like a really random bunch of stats to blurt out without a source.

Only issue is why is she in G.I.Joe AND fat, the shit they do you'd shed the pounds very quickly. Also sucks that this is Sitterson since he was decent on Fantasy Fiction.

Do you remember how in 2015, sales on Marvel AND DC were down?

Brian Hibbs reported it back in December 2015:
cbr.com/trouble-on-the-horizon/

and retailers were starting to report problems in January 2016:

bleedingcool.com/2016/01/27/retailers-complain-about-collapsing-marvel-and-dc-sales/

And as the months went on it wasn't anecdotal. DC managed to right the ship with Rebirth. But Marvel was struggling badly with Civil War II and the tepid response to the Marvel Now relaunch.

Simply saying it's diversity's fault that comics aren't selling completely ignores all the problems that was already going on.

Like what...? That there are a ton of Green Lanterns, many of them diverse, but Hal still sells the best by a long shot? Kind of a disappointment actually since Jess is hella cute and DC squandered John's popularity coming off the end of the DCAU. Though I suppose it doesn't help that none of his books get reprinted.

theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/10/large-majorities-dislike-political-correctness/572581/

Not diversity

But more stupidity

they want to radically change the comics to something completely abominable

what sells most in the comics is the super feminine side and the super masculine side
the super beauty of the heroes bodies

but Disney has an agenda of putting binary figures, no sex defined

and women can not be sexy in any way

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And you also want to know another reason the diversity books took a hit? Hibbs said this in his column:

>How about the new and young readership? Marvel actually was starting to attract some of them at our stores -- books like "Squirrel Girl," "Ms. Marvel" and the Jane Foster "Thor" title were racking solid sales for us outside of the "traditional" Marvel customer. But that new/younger readership? They literally don't understand why you would start a book over again at #1. It makes no sense to them! And that confusion appears to have shooed a number of them off. In an equivalent sales period, our sales of the first issues of all of those series are actually below (dramatically so in the case of "Thor!") the final issues of the "old series" -- which was only on issue #8 for two of the three! But readers appear to be treating the relaunches as simply "issue #9." That's not typical consumer behavior.

Sales don't matter, they will keep doing diversity until you learn to like it.
And you will so win-win for all

>Simply saying it's diversity's fault that comics aren't selling completely ignores all the problems that was already going on.
I never said this. I don't think anyone has. Comics rely way too heavily on floppies and that's a dead market. Plus there's the intimidation factor of heavy continuity. The question was if the push for diversity harmed comic sales. And the answer is yes. It is not the only reason they're down. Of course not. But it hasn't done them any favors either.

Oh, and if you need more, this is also me.

>Black Panther and Ms. Marvel, and they're HUGE now.

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She doesn't even need to be trim, just the chick equivalent of soft bara. Although the majority of the problem with fem!Salvo is Sitterson's obnoxiousness combined with really ugly art.

>can't recognize pasta.

I mean, we could talk about comics like Tintin that handle diversity well, but it's more fun to get angry over strawboogeymen and how the young kids/neolibs/anti-skubbers ruin everything.

>but Disney
Disney couldn't give two shits about the comic division

>America (vol.1, 2017-2018) is a brave, political comic, tackling complex social issues.
I would love to know where that quote originates.

Why is "diversity" in American comics all about sexual relationships?
Why do they always relate fucking "romance" to diversity?
I dont really need "romance" in action comics whether its gay or hetero.
Its good sometimes but I simply want exciting action stuff like DBZ.

Why are modern Americans so obsessed with it? Its much more horrendous than harem shit in anime.

It's a matter of selection.

When your only goal for someone to write your comic is "not a straight white man" you get a barrel of Gabby Rivera's along side your Ta-nahesi Coates.(not a personal favorite but I recognize he is a writer of some popularity and substance.)

You subject the world to Chelsea Cain and Tessa Fowler and Mags "couldn't get work as Ben" Visaggio when just waiting on a Christa Faust or Eve Ewing would of been nice.

Not him but Tintin sucks ass. Asterix under Gozini on the other hand was great.

Statistically speaking, "diverse" comics sells less. Mostly because most writers forgot how to write "diverse" characters.

I fucking hate the word "diverse", by the way. Its an over-simplification that can mean anything.

Does it matter?

Diversity without competing ideas, backgrounds, and world views is not diversity. It's just trading one kind of hegemony for another.

Strip away all the surface gloss and the feel good back patting, there's probably less diversity now because of how mainstreamed, monoculture, and edgeless everything is. All of the interesting stuff has been, and still is, produced at the fringes. I just don't care about diversity at the big companies, because what they produce will always reflect the corporate identity first. Disney is going to be Disney. Marvel is going to be Marvel.

This guy gets it.

Race/sex/gender are just elements used in writing. They're not inherently good or bad. It's like a character being poor. Alone it means nothing. When this element starts to make sense with the story, that's when diversity is used well.

At best, putting a race/sex for your character and not using that element is a waste (Also known as "diversity for the sake of diversity").

I thought I read something about it being cancelled but I'm not 100% positive about that.

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Memes and shit aside can we talk about how thicc Medusa is here?

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Explain user

I kind of doubt it. It's probably done SOME damage, but nowhere near as much as Yea Forums likes to think it has.

I think American comics are really dying because, quite frankly, they suck. They're written like fanfiction and drawn like webcomics. It's embarrassingly amateur compared to the output of basically every other country.

I don't think manga in particular killed it though. It would've fallen to foreign imports no matter what, said imports just so happened to be from Japan.

I also don't think that Americans CAN'T make good comics, they just DON'T. The general culture of the industry encourages autistic fanboys to get in and publish official fanart and fanfiction. I honestly think an industry crash would fix American comics in the long run by flushing these faggots out

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Very Nice™

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That's because Marvel cares more about sales spikes than mantaining a steady readership and restarting with #1s and variants has proven to be successful for them.

It's not a good long run strategy and there are other factors that are affecting comics but they get money out of it.

user, at the height of the Marvel movie universe, they decided to turn every character people actually liked into a nigger.
What by all means should have been a massive revival for Marvel comics became one of the cringiest times in all of Marvel history, all due to cuckoldry.

I don't know what this post is supposed to mean

What part do you not understand?

Not diversity, just the insistence that the target demographic for superheroes must now be angry trans and lesbians and soccer moms who think Thor is hot. That crowd doesn't buy enough comics to even save IDW. Meanwhile the ACTUAL audience for superheroes is 12 year old boys and grown men wanting to feel 12 again for just 15 minutes. Creators have made a point of telling them to go the f away. THEIR comics aren't for little boys anymore. So 12 year olds read manga and watch MCU movies, while the adults wanting to feel 12 again just buy back issues.

So no one is happy but the self righteous cunts who create these awful comics and their toe jam licking cultists.

Link to that study? Sounds interesting.

>soccer moms who think Thor is hot
Nah, they also turned Thor into a woman, because having a white male character was still too problematic.

>BUT GOKU’S A GIRL
I want this now, it would be cute and hot.

>Meanwhile the ACTUAL audience for superheroes is 12 year old boys
Gonna stop you there user. Most twelve year old boys I knew growing up wouldn't be caught dead reading a comic unless they were autistic enough to not even realize that others thought it was embarrassing.

Keep in mind that this was back when comics were supposedly good. Nowadays, most twelve year olds don't even know what comic books are.

That in itself wouldn't be bad if they actually focused on super heroes being super heroes, and not soapboxing SJW cunts screaming about the most insane shit ever.

Can confirm. I read comic books by the truckload when I was 8, stopped when I was around 12 and didn't pick up again til after college.

psyarxiv.com/pv2ab/

People always say "I'm the target audience! the whole industry should be catering to ME!", and I can't help but think this is a really shitty attitude to take. Any industry that only appeals to one demographic is always going to be in one of two states; dying or dead. As said, manga is doing better because it casts a larger net and as such gets more new readers

To say what he's saying like a normal person, at a time in which Cap, Iron Man, and Thor were at the top of the world in popularity, Marvel didn't really match it with stories about them on the bookshelves. Jane Foster became Thor, Falcon took on the Cap mantle after they aged Steve out of being useful, and later on Tony Stark straight up died and RiRi Williams' Ironheart took his place as the "Iron" book. They've restored most of them now, but for quite a long period if some kid went to see Avengers and loved any of the big three, there was no corresponding book to sell them with their favorite character. The new books were also of dubious quality

Diversity doesn't harm sales, poor writing/art does. There are a lot of people who are careless with quality and the medium who see their only objective to be telling stories featuring diverse characters.

Diverse media gets a bad wrap because of how many toxic identity politic driven creators have basically trained people to see diversity as a dog whistle for shitty art and condension to no diverse people.

Thanks user, can't say I'm surprised at all.

Diversity in Comics is the last desperate push of a medium that is slowly dying just like movies and music and religion are dying and being turned into plastic shit.

For whatever reasons the modern world is incredibly toxic to the humanities.

I'm not sure if it is capitalism or the copyright system or the internet or something else but art as a local industry is slowly dying.
People are consumers, not creators and all the soul is going out of humanity.

The diversity push in comics is just a symptom that there is no free thought in humanity anymore.

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thank you

This user gets it. Diversity in pop culture isn't a cause, it's the effect. It's the plan C of any industry trying to squeeze the last bit of cash flow from audiences by pretending to look "woke" and "down with the times". I disagree that art and creativity is dying though, because this is a good environment for indy creators of any media industry to get their shit seen and appreciated. That's if costs of living don't kill everyone off first.

>Diversity doesn't harm sales
I can guarantee you it does harm sales because I refuse to buy books with token dark skinned and token female leads. I say "token" because that's what current year diversity characters are.

>toxic
>dog whistle
Can you please just knock this shit off? Can you use your own vocabulary for once without regurgitating memes?

Autistic people are a pretty small minority user

I think it's because the internet created a huge fundamental shift in society paramount to the industrial revolution. The comics industry put a ton of stock into the collectors market, and unfortunately said market really doesn't exist in a world where physical media is a neat bonus rather than the main attraction.

How many people play an instrument at home regularly?
Just for fun?
How many people write their own poetry and draw their own art?
How many people tell their own stories around the fireplace?

I try hard to write my own poetry, work on my own painting and play my own music.
But its really difficult and without scarcity people just aren't going to do it.

>Tony Stark straight up died and RiRi Williams' Ironheart took his place as the "Iron" book.
that's bendis's fault

No. Shitty writing in comics and the evolution of every form of art but comics has hurt sales.

The problem with the diversity in american comics is that the characters race or gender or sexual prefernce was more important than the character themselves. When you got a character with, well, no character depth, no one is going to care.

Mangaka don't go around waving their "diversity" like a banner to be rallied under.

If the gay brown people weren't tokens, would you buy it?

You're one person, and hardly a canary in the mineshaft.

>Marvel comics
>Diversity
Pick one. All stories take place in USA, the protagonists are entitled Democrats Millennials, they're either Latin American, Muslim or American...

European and Japanese comics have true diversity.

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Most artists that have ever worked in comics are garbage, you just like one type of garbage more than the other.

>Uhm, no sweaty, the problem isn't SJWs, it's [insert a bunch of shit that is directly and entirely the fault of SJWs]
Every time.

But we always had diversity in comics, we had a bunch of female writers, artist, and a lot of female editors. We had a woman write Darevil, we had a black woman write Teen Titans and we had a transwoman write Doom patrol.

And no one gave much of a shit, if anything it's the shitty writing and people trying to pass this as something new and revolutionary just for brownie points while doing the bare minimum.

Not him but I think he's talking about the possibility that Thompson wrote this Kate monologue Thompson is credited as a writer along with Rivera for that issue after all.

The funny part is that America is already dating another woman and everyone seems to have forgotten whoever this is.

Why do you read comics if you hate them? It's not yours. It's not for you.

Marvel lost around 50% of their readership so we can say it killed the sales

Well nobody is buying marvelcuck shit anymore, so I guess nuMarvel decided that comics aren't for anybody.

>Millennials
But most capeshit characters are in 30 through 40 limbo.

God I cannot wait until I’m dead and the fantastic four are all zoomers.

Hehehe that sarcasm. People didn't want it for free

The last time they tried to know the readership they said 50% of the readers was 29 years or less and 75% were men

No one is against diversity in comics (including the comicsgater Diversity In Comics). What people are against is lazy diverse knockoff 'legacy characters' replacing or reducing the importance of familiar heroes, and also the forcing of identity politics issues to an excessive degree.

Diversity has never harmed the comics industry, it's this new forced agenda surrounding diversity that is doing damage.

You are the worst kind of person who enjoys comics and cartoons.

That's good. I appreciate hearing more stories from a variety of backgrounds.

>Manga sells better because they target audiences in a way that isn’t retarded.

The best Superhero in this moment it's Deku and All Might
and the manga Boku No Hero is better than 98% of the comics made in america
The 2 seasons of the anime are better than anything done in the animation of superheroes also in america

The problem is that they lost the concept of what it is to be a hero
The last time they did it right was with Jane Foster Thor

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how many times captain marvel got rebooted?

>The last time they did it right was with Jane Foster Thor
But that was complete fucking shit.
As in, every single aspect of it was terrible.

I think it's more to do with the fact that mangas are owned by individuals rather than businesses like Marvel or DC, which allows for more creative freedom and a more concise vision since writers and artists aren't being switched off every few months.

Based Sweatyposter

Jean Grey is a villain.

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The racism of low expectations is very alive and well among the far-left SJW types. That video where the guy talked to white college students at Berkeley about voter ID laws, and then relaying what they said to minorities living in Harlem, is a solid example.

You give Gabby Rivera far too much credit, user.

And then Brevoort "quit twitter" because everything was too aggressive and no one was happy or friendly when talking about comics anymore. He seriously has no self awareness at all.

On the note of editorial, it doesn't help that Perlmutter had most of them sacked to cut costs, leaving the rest far too stretched thin to be of any use.

The problem wasn't diversity in comics. It was diversity in comics at the expense of existing characters, and shitting on those existing characters. Thats why comic fans will say diversity in comics sucks. Because the way it was handled recently was probably the most retarded way possible.

>I don't think anyone has.
Plenty of people have, even here on Yea Forums, but most of those people are obviously just outragefags that don't actually read comics. Everyone else is wise enough to suss out that the mass-diversity push is/was a symptom of a disease, not the cause of it.

From the autist you responded to, he spams it along with this photoshopped image in every America thread. Don't know why, I think he's really proud of his joke.

I still think the problem was the new hires Marvel made. They couldn't write super heroes to save their own life.

Yeah I've seen it many times just wondered if it's a real actual quote from a critic or not.

Diversity isn't the problem, but being a lazy and assuming diversity is a replacement for character development and story telling is.

the real problem is just liberals trying to use comics to push their ever increasingly radical, fact free and anti science propaganda / conspiracy theory
comics in the passed used to be pretty divese actually. we had right, left and moderate leaning opinions all getting their fare representation. we had a good mix of white, black, asian etc character and a great mix of sexy and conservative dressed female heroes.
but nowadays it´s always just the same message of "all white men suck, women are better then men, white men are keeping black and female character down, donald trump is worse then hitler, people can magically change their gender 500 times in a second and if you don´t play along with their insanity your are a biggot"
demanding that every white male charcter needs to be replaced by a gay, black or female character and demanding that every female character needs to get a new sharia approved costume and a breast reduction isn´t the end product of "teaching progressive love"
it a sad attempt of deluded liberals and feminists who hate white men.
my favorite modern comic writer right now is an Indian dude and he is writing a pretty cool vampire story right now set in the British empire.

no since /pol/ are mostly just angry teenagers who are reacting to sjws destorying their hobbies and franchises
if sjw would just stop demanding that every single form of media there is needs to exclusively pander to their sjw and feminists view then /pol/ wouldn´t even exist

the problem was hiring people who hate comics and their fans and want to change the industry as much as possible.
sjw have changed comics so much it´s no wonder fans are no longer buying them.
imagine buying a car manufacture and starting to exclusively produce dishwashers. of course your old costumers are gonna move on

nah /pol/ has been around longer than the SJW plague.

Diversity matters little. It's all about execution and Marvel alienated their core audience to get a new audience that never supported it. Stuff like that happens all the time in other mediums, games especially. You can do something new to get more people interested but if you don't do it well then you end up with nobody interested.

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Lack of diversity has what's harmed sales. Manga caters to girls, women, boys, men, trannies, cooking maniacs, women into menxmen, homos, fighting maniacs, whatever. Comics cater to superhero fans. I don't care about superhero shit, I'm not going to spend money on superhero shit.

Brrrrraap

Vast majority of popular Manga caters to straight young men.
They are called shounen for a reason.

>we had a man pretending to be a woman write Doom Patrol
ftfy

>implying shounen can't have those aspects
OPM literally has an openly homosexual character that tries to go after boys in prison

>I still think the problem was the new hires Marvel made. They couldn't write super heroes to save their own life.
But two of the worst "legacy characters", Miles and Riri, were written by Bendis, and he's not a new hire.

>a bunch of idiots thinking "yo I is black, sup homedawg" = character who is black
When was this? What era?

False though. There's whole genres that cater exclusively to women in manga: shoujo, josei and yaoi. Shitton of popular series from there.
Of course there's also nobody in Japan telling girls and women their tastes in shoujo, josei and yaoi are problematic. Here sjws bitch about what caters to women's fantasies too.

And of course, males in Japan know to keep their mouth shut on women's manga too.

yep but then they're missing their readership, in general we can say most men aren't gay and they don't want to read about gay characters simply cause they like women and want to see women as the relationship for the main characters

Women find relationship between men hot so they read that kind of material but they are less interested in fights and the tropes in shounen. Besides if the prota is a man in a relationship with another man they win the tag "Shounen-Ai" aka homosexual

The problem was that Marvel demanded all the characters be replaced with Diversity. Comic publishers are very commercial and what they do is more about money and target demographies than anything else besdies this strategy to attract new readers was advertised as that, an strategy to get new readers with the clever name "Diversity"

That's clearly not true, since nuMarvel kept pushing all their garbage "diverse" legacy characters/books long after they were fully aware of how universally hated they were.
Sure, they got cancelled EVENTUALLY, but all kept being pushed long after they completelt failed. Hell, even shit like America got a whopping 8 issues, when it shouldn't have even made it to 1.

He is portrayed as a raper who abusse of the villains, he is part of the corruption inside of the organization of heroes. The rank S heroes are suppose to be a disaster and no-so heroic characters.

>all kept being pushed long after they completelt failed
And we aren't going to talk about Iceman but here are several thing implied. First of all Marvel's hope was that they could earn more money if they could attract more readers so cause they didn't care about the characters, stories or comics at all they modified everything. Second they insisted cause this massive kind of failure was embarrassing and the bosses don't own Marvel so they aren't losing money. Third Disney earned enough with the films so they could keep going and going with the garbage cause it's just a small business

Although the exact reason why they have killed themselves for so long is unknown, it seems Disney was going to abandon Marvel comics anyway cause they don't need comics, maybe that's the answer: they don't care, if my smart strategy fails the business can go to hell

yep, it happens, in shounen that's what a homosexual is, the most corrupted thing ever, contrary to all virtue

Diversity implies replace all the heroes with SJW versions of them and they are inherently bad characters because that's what the SJW or LGBT audience want to see in their stories.

youtube.com/watch?v=KcXVGIi1m28

Good, capeshit needs to die.

Yes.

They don't.
The biggest Big Two comics right now are nowhere near the sales of a few decades ago.

>Here's an easier question: Which diversity books weren't selling?
Here's an easier answer:
The ONLY "SJW Marvel" comics that have ever put up numbers were the first year or so of Kamala Khan Ms Marvel and the first collection of Coates' Black Panther.
That's IT.
Ms Marve vol 1 "No Normal" was a decent hit for booksellers.
Coates Black Panter vol 1 was a BIG hit as far as Marvel collected editions go. (And Marvel does worse at collected editions than DC.)
Aside from that, the books that would fall under the "SJW Marvel" banner have all sold like shit.
They made a big deal about how Ms Marvel maintained 40k sales for about a year. 40k isn't even that good, but it was pretty solid. After that her sales fell off a cliff. Coates' BP also plummeted in monthly sales.
And it's only the first Vols of their collections that sold well.
Everything else has been a total fail.

>books like "Squirrel Girl," "Ms. Marvel" and the Jane Foster "Thor" title were racking solid sales for us outside of the "traditional" Marvel customer.
I really doubt this.
And I say that as someone who would love to see this.
I'd love to see something like "Moon Girl" actually attract a big new audience.
Instead what I've seen is Marvel giving these books long loooong leashes, to no avail.
Sales (except for Aaron's "Thor", which was always strong quality) were a disaster.
I can't trust Hibbs on this because:
a) He is a lefty, so he's going to go out of his way to give off virtue-signal/olive branches about how the diverse Marvel books were actually good.
b) He's in San Francisco, so his clientele would be more favorable toward these titles anyway.

He's in San Francisco, the epicenter of where these books would find a favorable audience, but apparently the readers were "too stupid" or "not interested enough" to continue with them after a new #1?
I get that relaunches can be annoying.
I get that relaunches can also be jumping off points.
Which is it?
If new readers really were flocking to these titles, they would have stuck with them. The idea of a new #1 is not so disorienting, Brian.

My collection of shoujo manga says women are just as much into fights as guys are, what women aren't into is power level contests.

Gay men in One Piece are pretty good and nice.

The writers are doing what the publisher has asked them to do

>Tom King
Reminder that Batman reached 83,000 units, its lower point since 2011 when Snyder didn't sell less than 100,000 units until 2016

The obnoxious flavor (singular) of 'diversity' most people complain about is a crutch for untalented and lazy writers.
They and their editors want to be shielded from criticism, and they also want the instant media coverage that doing a 'new! diverse!' character gets them with the press.

As many have said, comic sales have been declining for years. Traditional sales avenues have been stagnant at best. There have been very few new readers, so I don't begrudge the publishers for trying to create new mar

It has alienated a lot of longtime fans, particularly because the newer characters are supported, marketed, and treated in-universe as if they were perfect Mary Sues who everyone loves.
DESU I'd be really supportive of titles like Squirrel Girl, Moon Girl, Riri Williams etc. if they were treated/marketed/published more like YA novels/OGNs. Instead the characters seem to have "invaded" the 616 universe (and the comic shop rack) and everyone has to instantly love them and champion them or else they're an unwanted bigot.
Moon Girl was instantly "the smartest person in the Marvel Universe", and if you're a longtime fan of Reed Richards (or Valeria Richards) who's been reading for 20+ years and you utter one word of confusion about this, then you're a racist.
The characters were crammed and forced, not developed.
Don't instantly love the female Thor? Then Jason Aaron will tell you (in interviews AND in the stories) that you're a misogynist.
They kept basically telling longtime fans to go fuck themselves.
So, I mean, yeah, sales were already going down, but the Marvel stuff of the last 3-4 years in particular seemed like a consolidated effort to chase longtime fans away.
As usual, of course, longtime comics fans didn't take the hint and kept buying stuff they are more and more unhappy with anyway.

>One piece
LMAO

I have a recommendation for you, a shounen with a woman as protagonist. Compare Claymore to your shojo collection then we're gonna talk about fights and shounen

Males in Japan don't care about shit for women, they don't read that garbage and that's all

Also ms marvel is generally okay to good writing wise when compared to the other books.

>Women find relationship between men hot so they read that kind of material but they are less interested in fights and the tropes in shounen.

right. but you forget plenty of women read shonen. this goes for american anime/manga fans. women enjoy shonen stuff and reproduce yaoi shit from it. this is one of the huge differences from the american comic industry. only a few women enjoy traditional capeshit.

Dude, I don't care about your power level contests. There's fighting in women's manga. It's not a dickwaving contest like in shonen, but only a retard would deny it's fighting.

Have a gif of Sailor Mars burning her enemy to death in an act of self-sacrifice during the Sailor Moon finale.

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That's a step above males in America bitching about Voltron, My Little Pony and Steven Universe.

people usually do not hate diversity characters...they usually hate diveristy stories because you do not read comics because diversity you read cape comics because you want to read about cape comic shit, you read sci-fi comics because you want to read about it, it`s just that simple.

The problem is when you are focusing on diversity and the cape comic stuff is secondary stuff, you feel like they are scamming you, they are doing the process backwards, the cape comic stuff it has to be the focus not the diversity stuff. It no means that you every once in a while you can focus on a diversity plot, or drugs or alcohol or guns or whatever social problem of the time, but if you want to do it in every issue you make you have to take the risk that the market that want to read primary about cape comic stuff will not buy it.

A huge number of shoujo fans are male, so that's blatantly false.

why "white liberals" so fucking bad at diversity, while japanese have been handling it well. the liberals are fucking horrible at making characters of videogames too. women are all ugly, and especially poc ones are stereotypical af.

then you have sjw that prase diversity comics because they want comics focused on diversity, but you are doing it on a cape comic market where the majority want their cape comics focused on cape comic stuff so they not sell well because sjw prasers are minority (in cape comic market) but still they made themselves notorious (because they have relevance on other markets where sjw do sell better) and comics companies (primary marvel) want that market but is not a cape comic buyer market still they will prase your diversity comic but will not buy it because they are not interested on cape comics

Now that you said it that way, it seems like SJWs writers actually hate super hero comics.
>"So there's this character called Tony Stark, he's this crazy genius inventor who invented his own power armor that can fly around and shoot energy blasts and stuff, and uses it to beat it bad guys and calls himself Iron Man. It's so cool!"
>"Haha, I hear you, but you know what's even cooler? Black people. And women."
>"Uhh... Okay?"
>"Yeah, so what if we took all that dumb shit you just said about that tommy stork guy or whatever... and made them a black woman! Wouldn't that be super cool?!"
>"...No?"
>"Haha, it would be super cool, the character could be black, and also a woman, and be better than tommy stork in every way possible! We can also use it to talk about social justice issues!"

THE PROBLEM IS THAT THERE'S NOT MASS MARKET OUTSIDE OF CAPESHIT THANKS TO THE COMICS CODE BULLSHIT
KILL CAPESHIT, AND REBUILD THE MARKET FROM ZERO.
Or die and let manga replace comics everywhere. As someone that doesn't read capeshit either is good for me.

>As usual, of course, longtime comics fans didn't take the hint and kept buying stuff they are more and more unhappy with anyway.

This part isn't completely true though. I was following how comics were doing and could see there was a drop-off post-Secret Wars 2015. The warning signs were there, not only showed retailers bringing up problems, the Comichron chart reflected what Hibbs said about how Marvel's relaunch titles in dropped off faster than normal after a #1, making the renumbering completely pointless.

In 2016 DC did try to fix things with Rebirth, and it worked as they actually showed an improvement in sales for the year. Marvel instead did the HydraCap reveal, Civil War II, and the Marvel Now 2 push. HydraCap reveal pissed off the people that didn't read comics, while Civil War II pissed off the people that did read comics.

You know how bad Marvel Now 2's reception was when it got announced? CBR, a site populated by Marvel shills, had a poll about it, and the reception was fucking bad. People tried to damage control for the poll, but once the books were launched I could see a mostly indifferent reaction to everything except maybe Venom. Thanos didn't start having buzz until Cates took over. A lot of retailers were complaining about Marvel's titles not selling and it reached a breaking point in 2017.

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Your dumb theory assumes that the rebuilt market won't automatically get taken over by the same people who wreck other entertainment industries with bullshit restrictions.

Why don't Dc and Marvel, like, try publishing something good that's not capeshit?

Nah. Capitalism doesn't tolerate business failures.

They did. You just don't want to read them, so they got canceled.

I said good, dude. Manga-level good.

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So? You brought up the Code. That was something that got weakened over time, but had ramifications for decades. Same thing happened with TV cartoons and parental groups in the 70's and 80's. And you don't think that's been happening now?

That just means you're to comics what John K is to animation except you haven't made anything yet. I'd actually recommend that because you can't get much innovation from the bigger companies because they're always thinking about the bottom line.

No, now comics have manga to compete with.

Just tike cartoons have anime.
And the superior product that isn't burdened by stupid sjw/americrap "won't someone think of the childruuuuuuun" shit is winning.
Maybe it's the amerishit mentality that's wrong. How do you change that besides Russia nuking America?

>What is Vertigo, Epic, and Icon?

Shit nowhere on the level of Shonen Jump, Kadowaka, Kodansha etc.

>Maybe it's the amerishit mentality that's wrong.
You mean about crying about how other things don't cater to you?

I was thinking mostly about the "wOn't sOmEone ThiNk oF tHe ChildruUuuunnnnnn" part but yeah I guess that fits too.

>Capitalism doesn't tolerate business failures.
Apparently Disney does.

It kind of overlaps, that's how we got this decade's evolution of moral crusading.

Yeah but all americans cry about things that don't cater to them, even those that allegedly shun the "think of the children" part. Japanese males don't whine that manga or anime for women don't cater to them, American males never shut up about how "this show made for girls doesn't cater to meeeeeeeeee". Yea Forums is the #1 example of that.

Meant for

Retarded user, it's not about Power levels, it's about how those fights are. Compare your shitty shoujo with Claymore, a shounen. The difference between a shounen fight and girly sailor moon

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So you're admitting they are fights?

they don't care mate, a shoujo doesn't mean gay characters automatically and in general most men don't read shoujos

Because in Japan they don't turn characters into gays, they create their own characters instead and it's tagged so if you want to read about gay characters you read it while if you don't want to know anything about that shit then you can avoid it easily, besides they don't pretend to force people to say it's normal. Everybody can get their pervert garbage without demanding to call it "normal". It's like they accept they are depraved

like little girls, yes

They're a joke dude, small, very small things

Little girls sacrifice their life to stop the enemy, killing themselves and the enemy in a suicide attack? Besides ISIS children I mean.

>think of the children
An interesting thing is that in Japan when a manga is written for kids it's written in Kana (simple characters kids can read) and when it's for adults or teenagers it's is written using Kajis (complicated characters you learn how to read in high school) so a kid can't read material for adults cause there are around 1000 kajis of common use

indeed little girls, that's Japan

>what's up with women being women?

Japan is hardcore.

it's the American style, Marvel and DC want to own the stories and characters and don't want to abandon the known properties they have. On the other hand writers aren't going to accept to create new interesting stories while giving Marvel and DC the rights in exchange for a salary

I'm not even sure what the fuck you're saying.
I want them to cater to the "people who like good stories" audience.
Hell, even if you want to say "they only write capeshit", they're fucking failing miserably at catering to the "capeshit" audience as well.

we call them KamiKaze for one reason but sailor moon is girly and silly

It's manlier than capeshit.

The concept of a good story is subjective.
Besides, I'm talking about males here whining about those few shows that don't cater to males, for example She-Ra, Voltron or Steven Universe.

A great comedy series, this.

No hetero man in the world is gonna read about dudes fucking. Iceman's sales are a testimony of it. 75% of the readership was made up of males

Shit stories have ruined comics. Diversity is just another attempt to grab attention to a failing medium. Same with pop culture before that.
It's the last clown at the carnival screaming and demanding people pay attention to him.

I think the circles that used to hire tumblr trash are starting to break down and that's why we're seeing actual diversity (of talent) in the industry once more.
The internet era has killed comics on almost every level.

This. Plus it's cute

It is girly and silly but someone still gets decapitated in the first chapter.

Hetero males in Japan read yaoi though. They're called fudanshi. Gays read bara.

>fujo
Japanese word for "rotten"
those are faggots mate

post that but it's still baby girls fighting

Faggots that fuck their girlfriends in the vagina

Jane Foster Thor has what I have not seen for many years
A hero who sacrifices himself and goes beyond all limits to save someone
I do not remember Thor doing anything compared to what she did

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"fighting" or modeling are very similar things in sailor moon

Sure buddy, decapitating someone is totally the same as taking a walk. Who here doesn't go for a decapitating in the sun once in a while?

a man who is interested in gays is a faggot, he wants gay stuff, probably in the closet

Should read bara then, that's where the gays are.

post it

A man looking for gay porn is gay or is gonna be gay, it's the same if they want to read about homosexual men is because they want to be gay

But bara is the gay porn. Yaoi is women's fantasies, those are men that are like women want. Gay men are nothing like the characters in yaoi.

Bara is porn, Yaoi is for gay men who want a "romantic" version meaning men pretending they're delicate and weak like women but because of that women read it, it's less vulgar and they're hot so women who are attracted to men read that material

7pbp

>Yaoi is for gay men
No dude. That's tumblr bullshit.
The creators are women that write for women.

Porn is powerful with enough porn you could think bestiality is hot

If a man read about two men kissing and making out he's gay. Homosexual material anyway

He should read bara then. What straight women create is not what gay men create.

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but he reads yaoi in several cases, some of them when they're young don't know all this gay thing is just about sex

It's almost funny, not a big deal and a very small frame

Sounds like bullshit mate. Straight women create very different stuff from gay males, that's why there's two genres for two different demographics. You don't confuse the two.

>severed head dripping blood
>not a big deal
Christard american parents would have called for the comic to be banned in Ameriland.

so you think every killer began killing people, some of them began with smaller crimes

Yeah most of the emphasis is on Usagi throwing that thing rather than the head coming off.

But when you're used to Japanese things you understand it's nothing besides like I said before adult things are written with Kajis so kids are protected

In first place kids don't read American comics, that's a fact and censors haven't done their work since a long time ago, they don't have a moral compass anymore. Money moves the world anyway so something should be R gets PG-13 or the other way around

It ran in the us in the late 90s. I'm sure there were calls for a ban somewhere but I remember my friends' evangelical parents thinking Pokemon and Harry Potter were the devil's work.

>Christian
Americans are atheists and for Americans everything is okay, whatever you do is okay, that's the only rule

I don't know what bubble you're living in but most Americans are Christians and like 30% of them are the really crazy variety.

the problem is that some people don't know what they are saying, somebody told them something and they believed it.

Pokemon had a creepy pasta people thought was real or something. I don't remember exactly.

Harry Potter is pretty stupid honestly, things for teenagers with high schools and all that but it's true it cultivated an interest for spiritism in general audiences

No, I think straight women are not gay men.

Some years ago they showed a photo of Jesus or how normal people think Jesus was to kids (they were 10 or less) in public schools. I think after 15 of them none had recognized who was that man, one of then said "Bush?"

and I think gay men read things a woman wrote sometimes if they're young

They thought Pokemon was evil because it had psychics and Harry Potter was evil because it had magic. The whole thing is incredibly stupid. This kid bullshit is evil but that R-rated gore porn known as The Passion is totally fine but kids I guess.

Yeah but we're talking about the dying capeshit market here, not the japanese one, and the fact that retards like you still think women don't read about decapitations, violence and fighting when you've been shown they do. Yes, it's different from how males read it, but fact is the matter is still there.
This kind of thinking is what has killed comics in the West.

I think that it was pretty badly timed since they did all this just when the MCU was blowing up. I'm sure that there will be a few people that watched for example a Thor movie then went to buy the comic and got confused because Thor was a girl. Honestly though I'm not sure how many MCU fans even really care about the comics at all. Even if they do most of them would rather watch a YouTuber explain what happens rather than actually check out the source material themselves. I'm sure there must have been at least few people that were genuinely interested in picking up comics after seeing the movie and were put off because the characters on screen didn't match their modern counterparts.

Why would they? Gay male sexuality is different from straight women's sexuality.

If you're talking about that scene from Super Size Me it's from a documentary and hardly a serious data point.

I really remember a creepypasta involved somehow but it's the same sometimes people don't know enough about the things they think are bad for their children and sometimes they let children watch things they shouldn't watch cause their parents weren't paying attention

Only the SJW type

What is The passion?
But again while Harry Potter is very stupid it's true they cultivated a certain love for spiritism, mediums and those things

There is one thing about diversity in comics that I like and that's the fact that these new characters don't have plot armor. They can die, and suffer, and consequences can matter for them in a way that I know they never will for the old guard. That makes their stories more interesting to me, even if they're not written as well.

Well there was some people that thought the Lavander Town music made kids commit suicide and the seizures thing but I never heard adults talking about that.

>However; I would strongly question the growing idea that a writer can only write their race, that’s absolutely false and dangerous thinking.
It's not really a growing idea; that's been the standard for at least 30 years or so. There's a documentary out there where Priest complains about it.

The Passion is a movie Mel Gibson made that's about Jesus. It's extremely gory torture porn but for some reason every kid I knew with crazy religious parents thought it was a good idea to have their kids watch.

Nope but though Americans can say they are Christians, they are not. Most people don't know a thing about Christianity, it's worse than France. Nobody cares about religion in USA

I like America for superficial reasons.

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Some people thought that atrocity was religious but it doesn't mean they don't have the right to protect their children from potential danger, that's their responsibility. We are adults and we can do whatever we want as we take the consequences too kids can do the same when they grow up. Sexual material isn't for them yet or anything else their parents consider could be bad for them that's their work and kids aren't gonna die cause they didn't watch a cartoon or some films

They care about it when it's an excuse for them to act shitty or when they are sad and want to feel better.

Sometimes people honestly think they're doing it to protect their children so who cares? we can watch whatever we want so let their parents decide what they're gonna watch

To be an adult is great, you want to get drunken well, you accept tomorrow you're gonna feel like shit. It's freedom and consequence but you shouldn't sell alcohol to kids

I'm confused why this is a response to my last post.

And by this kind of thinking I mean "hurr girls don't read about fighting and violence".
They do... the way women write about it.
You need women creators writing for a female audience, without males interfering.
Just like Japan does.

>Has diversity in comics actually harmed sales?
Bad writing and getting dunked on by manga harmed sales.

It doesn't matter what we could think about parents but they decide what they want for their children and who cares anyway. We are adults, let them do what they want with their children

Don't be an asshole. Let's say there are several kind of women and tastes but in general women have a taste for beautiful clean things and they don't read comics not because of violence but because the art that is ugly for their taste, we could call it grotesque in several cases

Was all this about why women don't read comics? cause it isn't about violence though they prefer more delicate things like sailor moon in comparison con Berserk for example. The matter is still that they don't read American comics anyway

>they prefer more delicate things like sailor moon in comparison con Berserk for example
The swathes amount of Guts/Griffith yaoi say otherwise.
>The matter is still that they don't read American comics anyway
Sounds like the problem is capeshit then.

>The swathes amount of Guts/Griffith yaoi say otherwise.
They don't read that thing but as usual if sex or hot guys are implied they don't need anything else. And you can find yaoi of every single male character. A popular anime about giants (Shingeki no kyojin) has the same problem cause one of the guys beat the other once

>Sounds like the problem is capeshit then.
and?

>They don't read that thing
>But they write about it
Writing about it implies they've read it at least once, user.

>and?
Nothing, I'm just happy to see capeshit die.

>Writing about it implies they've read it at least once, user.
I was talking about art

>Nothing, I'm just happy to see capeshit die.
Diversity killed Marvel at least but you'll have to wait a little for DC

Art by itself doesn't do anything. The internet is plastered with capeshit art but women ignore capeshit anyway.

cause the men there are disgusting in their opinions

It's not like Berserk's art is much better.

>characters in manga are, in fact, more fucking diverse than in American comics
Because mangas manage to be diverse but have good storytelling and the "diversity" part of the mangas aren't something that's constantly waved in your face like comics in America.

>comic sales have gone down due to it
Comic sales have been declining, but only recently and the reason is unclear.

Pic related is ICv2-Comichron report numbers, they only posted declines for 2017 (we're still waiting for the 2018 report).

For Diamond, there was a slight net increase in 2016, then declines in 2017 and 2018.

graphicpolicy.com/2017/01/12/diamond-announces-december-2016s-top-products-marvel-on-top-overall-but-dc-challenges-in-a-mixed-month/
2016 vs 2015
>Comics: -0.11%
>Graphic Novels: 1.24%
>Total Comics/GN: 0.30%
>Toys: -9.74%

graphicpolicy.com/2018/01/12/diamond-comic-distributors-announces-december-2017s-top-products-dc-wins-dollars-marvel-wins-units/
2017 vs 2016
>Comics: -10.40%
>Graphic Novels: -9.38%
>Total Comics/GN: -10.09%
>Toys: -12.55%

graphicpolicy.com/2019/01/18/diamond-announces-decembers-top-selling-products-as-2018-gains-in-dollars/
2018 vs 2017
>Comics: 2.04%
>Graphic Novels: -8.22%
>Total Comics/GN: -1.08%
>Toys: -6.39%

Toys did the worst, which people blame on Toys "R" Us closing.

Attached: 1547162174706.jpg (720x849, 93K)

People would rather buy games and apps than toys.

Really they should start including smartphone revenue to the mix.

Not diversity but bad marketing. I'm the supposed target of America Chavez and Squirrell Girl but never heard or read about them (I believed that America Chavez was the name of the new spiderwan). I'm gonna read squirrell girl and maybe someday America Chavez (her name is cringe as fuck). Yes I know I'm a normie by co standards but really, the few new comic things that I was aware (¿metallic? Batman, Superman resttained to a chair with leather tings?, absolutely nothing of marvel with the exception that Peter Parker died and returned to life) where not really of my interest.

>and the reason is unclear.
the rise since 2012 was abnormal to begin with. It's just back to normal

Yes. Japan manga is 100% homogeneous, and sales have been rising year over year for over a decade.

But they prefer it

I said Diversity like in the official name of this Marvel marketing strategy. It's called Diversity literally. So "Diversity" killed their sales

>I'm the supposed target of America Chavez
Are you a latin woman? gay woman? or both. Marvel chose a funny combination

Forced, inorganic diversity? Yes.

Nobody wants to read about a character who is not white or Asian.

I like Blade tha wasn't created to take somebody else's role and had a good story. Solid comicbook character

Both and nobody in my circle knew about America Chavez. When they talk about lesbian and comics it's always Harley Queen and Poison Eve first, Temiscira Amazons second and lastly Supergirl.

>And yet manga sells significantly better
It's not selling more than comics in the U.S., but sales have been increasing faster than comics.

Not quite a decade in the U.S., but since 2012.

U.S. manga sales were actually at an all-time high of $210 mil back in 2007 (pic related). It went on a steady decline afterwards until 2012, and it was attributed to 4 things:
animenewsnetwork.com/convention/2009/new-york-comic-con/icv2
>the 2008 financial crash
>Toonami getting cut from CN in 2008 (coincidentally enough, Toonami also returned in 2012)
>Borders dying
>Twilight pulling away fujoshi

Since 2012, U.S. manga sales have steadily been increasing. In 2013, sales were $70 mil, up 8% from 2012's $65 mil.
icv2.com/articles/comics/view/30062/highlights-the-icv2-white-paper

In 2014, sales were up 7% to $75 mil.
publishersweekly.com/pw/by-topic/industry-news/bookselling/article/69839-after-a-sales-slump-manga-is-back-thanks-to-new-generation-of-bestsellers.html

In 2015, sales were up 13% to $85 mil.
cbr.com/milton-griepp-weighs-in-on-the-future-of-comics-retailing/

In 2016, sales were up 29% to $110 mil.
publishersweekly.com/pw/by-topic/industry-news/comics/article/75066-nycc-2017-manga-sales-continue-to-rise.html

In 2017, we never got public numbers since NYCC didn't host ICv2 in 2018.
comicsbeat.com/nycc-2018-one-thing-is-missing-this-year-the-icv2-white-paper/

While we don't have ICv2 quotes for 2017, we have comments from Viz.
icv2.com/articles/news/view/39758/icv2-interview-viz-execs-manga-market
>Hamric told us that VIZ manga sales grew again in 2017, with growth in every channel except the comic stores, which he attributed to the decline in store visits

There's also Bookscan numbers, but those are generally shit for several reasons.

Attached: North American Manga Market Sales.jpg (450x319, 75K)

>Not quite a decade in the USA
I’m talking about worldwide.

Still not enough by itself to prompt caring about it enough to waste time creating fanworks, or all the shit that has better art than Berserk should be getting tons of fanwork, except it isn't.

Why can't you admit women read and love shonen manga too and they have no problems reading about violence and fighting, proved it's done in a way that they like? You keep trying to deny it but reality keeps proving you wrong.

No, capeshit does not do anything in a way women like.

But my post that you were replying to wasn't about that. It was me saying that Amricans are mostly Christians when the other guy said they weren't.

Of course if you include Japan, sales have been rising for a while. It's been transitioning from print to digital/apps, but viewership has been increasing with increasing smartphone usage.

I'm not sayin there isn't some women there could read Berserk but if there are tons of yaoi is because often they don't care about anything but produce porn with sexy men. They don't care about the story, characters, relationships or anything else so if there's tons of porn it doesn't matter. Fujos are like that, they're like people and rule 34

Reality proves most women prefer soft beautiful things like Sailor Moon so what? that's reality they don't read comics anyway. They don't read it cause the art is ugly in their opinion that's is it

*saying

>Both
You're a bad liar SU fag

Actually if women don't like the story or characters they don't bother creating anything at all, so no, it's nothing like males and rule 34.
Plus when women do create fanworks, unlike males and rule 34, they create stories based on the original work, so yea they need to know at least the basic story and characters first. And they do because they read shonen manga as much as males do.
You're a retard, a liar, and full of shit.

2012 was the first Avengers movie, diversity is riding in the coats of the MCU, comics sales are going to crash hard after it.

Just before the Marvel diversity push i was super interested in comics, after it they just killed too many storylines and with shit reboots i lost all the interest, nowdays i barely even read comics anymore.

I'm not one. Weeb maybe because I cuted the cord and I don't have enough time to see my anime, even less about viewing a US cartoon for children. (Maybe that's the reason?)

Sure SU fag

>if women don't like the story or characters they don't bother creating anything at all,
Not true, a hot man is enough, they're just like rule 34

retarded

>Not true, a hot man is enough
Completely false.
Rule 34 by the way is full of stuff by men, straight and gay. Not stuff by women.

Yeah we know you're retarded.

Lack of ideas hurt comic sales. A sudden veer into inclusion and diversity does not represent new ideas, it's just packaging the same tired bullshit in new wrapping in a cynical attempt to appeal to 'woke' young people. Longtime fans of comics recognized this because they are intimately familiar with how the comic industry operates and they saw in the diversity campaign no new ideas, just the same old ideas hastily repainted to attract somebody else. Unfortunately for the comic industry, part of the diversity credo involved renouncing many of their existing fans.

there you are SU fag, it's easy to catch you

People are missing the big picture, manga/anime has the memes.

Internet culture is dominated by memes, and if 50% of what young'ins see everyday is manga/anime memes, it's free advertising for the series. How often do you see a comics/cartoon meme outside Yea Forums?

Also starting is easy, you just google the series name plus "read" or "watch" to find manga hosting sites or anime streaming sites, then start with Chapter 1/Episode 1.

Comics is an unholy mess of continuity hell, and comic hosting sites are very hit-or-miss, usually from a combination of shit readers/interfaces and shit selection/missing chapters due to a deficit of scanners.

>How often do you see a comics/cartoon meme outside Yea Forums?
With rare exceptions like Spongebob, almost never unless I'm somewhere that talks cartoons/comics.

>100% homogeneous
Huh. Technically the truth. Though they draw all the characters as white

no. shitty writing has.

I do not think you know what a Superhero means

What cartoons, movies, comics, and games and TV series would you recommend for someone you hate, Disney hates Star wars, hates Marvel hates pixar and hates FOX?

wat

is that I want to be totally away and out of everything that is disney, pixar, marvel, FOX and Star Wars.

I want something that is alternative

Diversity itself is fine, but some writers have mistaken "diversity" for "character depth". Exposition saying that your character is queer/whatever doesn't make them interesting. Their interactions with the world around them does, and it rarely goes beyond the standard shit that every other hero does. The reason Kamala was so successful wasn't because she was a woman of color, it was because she was a fun, well-written character with a great team of artists on her run.

Voter ID laws target minorities in the South and other rural areas because of how hard it is to get IDs there for poor people, of which minorities in those rural areas disproportionately tend to be. Minorities in New York aren't affected by these laws at all because of how New York is a giant ass city where a government office is available every few blocks and everyone has a photo ID they use for everything. It's crazy how people on the right misconstrue issues to fit their agenda

then read DC or manga

Now tell me the demographic in Japan

>Its much more horrendous than harem shit in anime.
I was with you until this.

Socially anxious Aryan-worshippers dying off from lack of sex.

kawaii uguu schoolgirls

ANIMES

Boku no Hero Academia (My Hero Academia)
youtube.com/watch?v=hBW8prpgPcY

One Punch Man
youtube.com/watch?v=km2OPUctni4

youtube.com/watch?v=jakLeunGJGU

and many others

Attached: image.php.jpg (480x360, 37K)

>How many people play an instrument at home regularly?
>Just for fun?
>How many people write their own poetry and draw their own art?
>How many people tell their own stories around the fireplace?
You can't be serious. Digital spaces for all these things exist, and people fill them with their creations without monitization. Would everyone like to be a billionaire off of their art? Sure. But there are plenty of independent creators out there that know they aren't going to "make it big" and yet continue to produce. I'll grant you that the commodification of art is terrible for art, but only with respect to what art gets pushed into the purchasing space.

pretty much. i liked a few new characters like moon girl. but most of this newer stuff is just trash

diversity doesn't harm sales, shit comics harm sales.

American white liberals and their purse puppies are a plague on humanity.
Hiring "the marginalized" to write the same garbage as white liberals is not diversity.

So a transwoman.

It's in the focus. If your selling point for the comic is specifically about being a minority experience, then obviously you're asking for an audience interested in that. Batwoman's been gay for a long time now, but the comics weren't about her being gay. She was just gay. The comics were about her being Batwoman. If that makes any sense.

Have you not heard of Thor Di-assembled?

Attached: 085.jpg (986x1505, 140K)

This. Even with ms marvel I could tell it was written from a mostly white woman's perspective.

Yeah. that's a man, not a woman.

Speaking as someone who lives in DC, just replace every third word of that jive slang with “nigga” and you have a pretty accurate version of the modern black experience.

Yes.

I told you they're not hiring good writers in the name of diversity and your response was 'If they did...' That's not a rebuttal user.

they are the worst creators ive ever seen in my entire life. although in reality its not like the opponents have any alternative strong values to push them back.
compared to manga, the diversity in comics or the representation of poc is hilariously bad. the white might have written some good stories before but they cant anymore. they wont ever be able to catch up with the level of diversity in manga

>heteros are gigantic pussies compared to gays who had to endure heterosexual characters shoved at their faces all their life
It makes sense when you put it that way, but I disagree. I'm sure heteros can enjoy a good comic regardless of what a character is lusting for

>I'm sure heteros can enjoy a good comic regardless of what a character is lusting for
Depends entirely on the subject material.

This.

No they haven’t and the quality is provably worse.

Literally nothing you posted is true.
I dont care if the author is a mix of every single race on the planet, and also a lesbian transsexual, and also disabled.
All I give a shit about is the story, and SJWs do not write good stories.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baizuo

that chink shit is only used by chinks frustrated by ccp who cant explicitly express it because its illegal and they are fucking losers.

chinks can enjoy their social credit system, oppressed by ccp

It shows that libcucks are despised around the world to the point where people have literally created slurs for them in their own languages.

Pretty sure Midnighter's first solo did good and it had dudes fucking. Iceman's problem is that it only concentrates on stereotypical gay shit and it's annoying to read even if you're gay.

How did your pea brain vomit that response for my post.

It might be because I'm overly forgiving when it comes to art, but the art is probably the least of my criticisms when it comes to the big two SJW cuckfest. The best art in the world wouldn't save their abysmally shitty SJW writing. In fact, I actually kind of hate it when decent artists are forced to utterly waste their talents illustrating stories written by retards like Bendis or Thompson.
The only case I can recall where it was the opposite, namely "absolutely horrible art ruined a decent story" was probably Iron Sights, because although the story was just your typical modern day spaghetti western, the art was so terribke you literally couldn't even tell what was happening, or differentiate between characters half the time.

If they don't like an aspect of a comic, the characters, the story, the writing or the art you drop the comic so if you don't like to see men making out you drop the comic cause most people don't want to read about men making out then they dropped those comics and sales went to hell. If some homosexual dude don't want to see the kind of relationship produced the whole humankind well then he can drop the comic and look for some story about homosexual dudes

and what did happen with that comic?

Marvel Max.
Imagine this as a comic in the Marvel MAX line.
A ladies-man has been made gay by his telepathic/psychic teammate, so she can have a gay best friend, and someone she can have girl-talk with.

As the series goes on, he notices that things are off. He eventually figures out what happened, and is furious, but doesn't know if he can go back or not.

Yes and no.
Comics have become more and more diverse, since the 1960's. There is nothing wrong with that.

However, in the 2010's, some things happened around diversity that really messed up sales:

1) The number of minority characters represented (gays/lesbians/people of color, etc.) started to disproportionately be made for the American marketplace.

2) The legacy characters started to outright replace the originals, (the vast majority of who were straight white males)

3) The new characters were not as complex as the originals, and their defining traits on mass seem to be their sexuality, gender, or skin-color.

4) Marvel started hiring minorities to write minority characters, and any criticism of their works was labelled as ignorance towards diversity.

5) The minority characters started focusing on comedy, rather than superhero action. Which was a big shift in tone for a lot of books.

6) All of the new minority characters, while promoted for their diversity, all adopt the same philosophical, political. and economical ideologies. Which ironically makes them less diverse.

7) Most of the new characters are legacy characters, and as such, don't have their own identity. They either have the same name, or powers as a previously existing hero.

Now their are a lot of reasons for comics failing besides elements related to diversity. And diversity itself isn't the reason for the lack of sales. But elements tied to diversity are causing a clear decline in sales, and quality of the stories.

diversity panders to people who come in buy the first issue and then don't buy anymore issues. this while running off the income of people who buy the comic every single month and every single tie in.

hence why issue one of diversity comics #1 sold 42000 copies and issue two sold 280000 copies and issue three sold 15000 copies.

it's the same damn reason the comics biz nearly ended in the 90's with the damn pandering to the speculators. fucking nobody learned shit from the near destruction of the medium by marvel and dc in the 90's

Also, it's not like lesbian characters don't work in fiction. You just have to turn to anime/manga for this. God knows how popular yuri shit is, especially with male audiences. It's honestly untapped potential in terms of popularity, I don't know why the fuck the west can't get such a simple thing right.

Maybe because they have better competitors out there like the Tiger and Bunny franchise.

I like looking at hot girls. Vice versa, girls probably like looking at hot guys. Why can't Marvel understand this?

True. I'm asian and I want to read about asian superheroes. Unfortunately, Hulk Cho sucks.

>the internet created a huge fundamental shift in society paramount to the industrial revolution
As someone who grew up with the internet, and started using it at about 3rd grade (I was born in 1996), I'd say that the best way to look for an audience is to get a small, but dedicated one willing to pay a lot of money to you via paywall and/or merch.

Read New Super-Man if you haven't already.