So when did Zombie Simpsons truly begin?

"Lisa the Vegetarian" is when it got infected. Started feeling the effects around the time of "The Secret War of Lisa Simpson", died around the time of "They Saved Lisa's Brain". Only took until "Guess Who's Coming to Criticize Dinner?" for everyone to realise it was just a shambling corpse.

Seasons 3-8 is generally considered the show's golden age. People's opinion of Season 9 is generally dragged down thanks to Principle and the Pauper, which is probably a popular choice for when the show's descent began.

But there are definitely episodes during the show's golden age which sowed the seeds for the problems that would plague the show's descent, people often cite Homer's Enemy as where "Jerkass Homer" began and Lisa the Vegetarian as where "Annoyingly preachy Lisa" began.

IMO it breaks down like this.

Season 1 (Good but not truly great)

Season 2-8 (Golden Era of the show.)

Seasons 9-13 (The Decline Era. Most of the original writers leave and the overall stories start to drop quality fast. Still a few decent to good episodes.)

Season 14-20 (Full on Zombie Era. Plagued with guest of the week)

Season 20-21 (A slight return to form with a few surprisingly good episodes. The finale was originally intended to be the final episode and it was actually pretty damn good)

Season 22+ (Return to the Zombie Era. That last few season have been especially bad.)

>when did Zombie Simpsons truly begin
season 2

>which is probably a popular choice for when the show's descent began.
I hate when people say that. It's such a lame way of saying "Season 9".

Season 11 Episode 5

/thread

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Why is this episode in particular so hated?

It basically ruins the character and strips the great PTSD Skinner moments the show used to have.

I still crack up at the Pysco bits where he looks up at the house talking to his mother.

>completely shitting on an established character backstory
>pretty much marking the beggining of the decline in writing.
There is a good reason they decided to never talk about it and pretend it never happened. Hell, even the Vancouver olympics ep pretty much retconned the whole thing and made Skinner Agnes's son canonically again.

Nobody cares

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Or the one where he tells the story about being locked up in the small cage for 3 months and learning to appreciate the different kinds of gruel they would serve him.

I thought watching as a kid at the time that the fact that it was to never be mentioned again was the joke, that the entire episode was playing on how you can't change the status quo in a cartoon like that. Like in Futurama where Fry says that one of the most important things about Single Female Lawyer was that by the end of the episode nothing had changed from the beginning.

I've been rewatching a lot of season 1 and 2 lately and in those two seasons there's really a certain kind of special "tone" the show had that I really miss. It was this weird, sort of melancholy. I really don't know how else to describe it. But you had Lisa's depression, Homer's dissatisfaction with how he turned out and Bart's fear of realizing he's a loser. And no matter how much the characters worked none of these problems ever really went away but somehow at the end of the day, things sort of worked out, just not the way they may have wanted. There's this realization that, yes things may suck and they may not get better, but they could also be a lot worse and what little they have be it in their own family still had a kind of meaning.

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Is there anyone that fell harder than Skinner? I guess they had to make him into a joke when they decided Bart would become a retard but he was such a good character.

It was the joke but at the same time you still have to balance that line. They mention this a lot on the commentary but joke show or not these where characters people spent years of their lives watching and getting invested in. Basically when you joke like that you're essentially making fun of people for caring about the works you made when the whole point of story telling should be doing just that.

Even in Futurama "Single Female Lawyer" was used as a detached allegory. The characters where allowed to take shots through it because they're lives weren't effectively being effected by it and it was given a nod to the audience.

This guy represents peak Simpsons to me. Absolutely amazing episode.

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PTSD Skinner was best Skinner.

youtube.com/watch?v=SP4iiWt8wnw

lol who cares. Simpsons forever.

Behind the laugh was the last great episode

When Phil Hartman died. Duh.

Didn’t they say in the commentary that they didn’t think people cared that much about Skinner and that he was far enough down the totem pole that they could get away with this?

I wonder what the world would be like if Phil where still with us. It honestly just does sort of feel like comedy as a whole died with him.

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>t. spic

Undoubtedly one of the reasons but not the main one.I still miss him a lot though.

I miss Nam Skinner. How the hell did that fall off so much.

Abandoning Edna in their wedding, then getting constantly cucked by her (including the unfortunate Nedna thing) was what killed the character pretty much.

It feels like you could have done exactly the same thing with Herman and very few people would have cared.

People won't always accept change. But some changes are far worse than others. The Skinner retcon is not far off from what Marvel did with the Spider-Clone saga, in that they told the audience "this character you've come to be familiar with? well he's not the real one." Now Skinner isn't a main character like Spider-Man, which was why they thought they could get away with it, but they forgot that a very large audience followed the show, not just the people on Usenet, and Skinner had a recurring role. If they did it to like Hans Moleman, I think some people would've gotten upset but not as much as they did with Skinner.

Why is the cat fine?

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Nowhere near as bad as when Marge raped Homer.

Herman wasn't a prominent part of the Simpsons lives.

A cat is always fine too.

That's basically it; it was like the writers forgot they did stuff like the episode where Bart befriends Skinner, stuff like that, that set his character up.

I love that episode, but my favorite is the one where Flanders loses his shit.

Whats your favorite episode, Yea Forums?

The one where Marge becomes a musclegirl and rapes Homer.

it's the ghost of Snowball II

Just going off memory by season 8

The Simpsons helped him with TWO romances
Bart thought he had him wacked by the mob
Bart bonds with him when he becomes hall monitor
Homer was part of a band with him
Bart got him fired, befriended him then had him rehired
The PTA disbanded

So there have been at least 3 or 4 episodes where he was one of the prime focuses and a bunch where he was a strong supporting one. So having him be a fraud really does put a dark spin on a lot of things.

HD switch

It's not one specific moment, but a long stretched out process of combined fatigue w/ the show, decline in good episodes and constant changing of writers.
So really the technical standpoint of the zombie seasons could actually have some number of good episodes.

Im actually gonna blame it on the death of Maude Flanders. The show has never shied from tugging at the emotional heartstrings but to actually kill a man's wife off and within the same episode make jokes of the event really comes off as tonally dissonant.

>Homer is one of the reasons Maude is dead
>Ned doesn't think less of Homer for this
>Homer still treats Ned like shit
That shit never sat well with me.

season 10

because retcons fucking suck

Remember that episode where Lisa was bullied by a girl, and the resolution was Professor Frink discovering that bullies attack nerds because of their gland secretions? Everyone always points to the Simpsons going to Africa or that alligator episode as the worst, but that episode was the real breaking point.

Damn. Well said user.

Honestly the show ends at Behind the Laughter for me.

youtube.com/watch?v=KqFNbCcyFkk

Agreed. There are too many fondly-quoted episodes and well-liked moments from 9-13 to completely write the show off, but the decline was definitely there, and S13 should have been the last.

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There was no real definitive point, it just kind of slowly decayed. I feel like the more accurate name would be "life support simpsons", as that's the closest thing it can really be compared to

I think it's a little over-hated, but the whole episode is just so pointless on all levels (ancillary character is an impostor, but no, it doesn't matter anyway because we'll ignore it) that it shows a level of desperation that even the worst of the previous seasons didn't have.

It's one of the earliest that had such open disdain for it's audience.

Sam Simon left

>being so insecure and fragile that a woman dominating her husband in a cartoon makes you mad

>Most fanboys would say season 8
Those fanboys are faggots.

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Yeah, I have to agree here, 13 was the point of no return.

Jeez who touched you

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its a very cynical episode
and absolutely destroys the viewers relationship with the fourth wall and any established relationship we had with the characters
like the simpsons did get tongue and cheek with the 4th wall before, but not like this

i don't think it was written very maliciously but it certainly made it seem the writers care more for a cheap gag than caring for what connections viewers had with the show

it also basically gave future writers the okay to really over use the YEAH WE KNOW joke and remind you that you are watching a cartoon about a fake world and characters. that also kind of ruined future writers chances in trying to make these characters matter again

writers got used to putting characters into boxes
SKINNER - NAGGING MOM JOKES
RALPH - HE'S DUMB AND POINTS OUT THE JOKE, THAT'S THE JOKE
MILLHOUSE - HE'S IN LOVE WITH LISA
etc, etc.

at first I thought you were talking about how homer ducked down just as maude was returning to her seat

>tfw I remembered his car was in ambulance only parking

if anything the stadium is at fault for not having a safety barrier rail surrounding its very top floor.

>sowed the seeds for the problems

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Maybe. but the point was they could have easily omitted that joke and just let Homer be a good neighbor for a change. They put that bit of dialogue in there to have a giggle over a man grieving over his wife's death. Homer may have upset Grimes through his idiocy to the point where he went mental but that was still on himself. Homer parking in an emergency access route is just, well jerk ass. And it might have gotten someone killed. For a joke.

You can do a show where people die for a laugh, Im not trying to be a prude, but till then this wasn't that kind of show.

After the movie. They stopped trying to be funny then, and then took off with the SJW BS in 2015.

The writers actually wanted to drop Ralph according to Reiss's book, but he was too popular.

Seasons 10/11-ish, imo. There were some bad episodes appearing beforehand and a couple okay ones afterward but the show became too self-conlaturatory and randumb for it's own good at that point. One also simply can't pin down Zombie Simpsons to a couple characteristics since what is shit about the show going forward changes constantly between show runners and seasons. As much as a dislike the current iteration with it's dated on arrival references and pathetic art direcation there are at least occasional giggle-worthy jokes strewn about here and there. 13-18 is probably when The Simpsons had the absolute least to offer to anyone.

Too many too count, honestly. I'm getting the most enjoyment out of the first three seasons these days. Least favorite would have to be the one with not-Richard Gere and the manatees.

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Moaning Lisa. It's a super early episode but I really think it capture that somber tone the first few seasons had. There was just something really believable about it all.

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For me season 8 is starting to crack and season 9 is no longer golden age.

I have no idea what happened around 20-21, what are these good episodes you speak of?

Frankly, to me everything after since like 11 is a blur. I forget which one it was but some episode I thought was really recent turned out to be super fucking old. And I just wept.

More important question: What's a great stopping point for the series? Season 13? The Movie?

My favourite episode of the Simpsons was the one where Bart unknowingly ruins Krusty's life. Is that Zombie simpsons?

Any of the ones about the kids being kids.
>Lemon of Troy
>Bart Sells His Soul
>Kamp Krusty
>Bart on the Road
>Three Men and a Comic Book
Not sure how I would go about cutting down to just one though.

It's a sitcom dude. Just stop whenever.

Why does nobody know how to write kids anymore?

Most people would say it's because it ruins a classic character who had been on television for nearly 10 years when it had aired, but I'd say people are a bit wrong when they say that. It didn't really ruin Skinner.

In my opinion, the episode is bad because The Simpsons is a show that isn't built for the kind of story it wanted to tell. I feels like a plot twist that would be hinted at in serialized series, but Simpsons is a comedy so they have to put in a bunch of retcons and make the entire situation of the real Skinner showing up so contrived to make it work.
The episode is surprisingly really funny on rewatch, it's just really terrible in the writing and story department.

Say if Gravity Falls wanted to do this kind of story from day 1, they'd have hints and clues all over the place before the reveal and it'd be less infuriating.

sneed episode was in 11th season

sneed killed simpsons

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What episode of Simpsons should I watch right now?

The telltale head

Actually now that I think about it, Gravity Falls DID kinda do this story with Grunkle Stan...

Lisa the Iconoclast is a lot of fun.

is it even possible to salvage this concept? like, instead of Skinner being a fake, just give him a twin?

Have the "real" Skinner be a con-artist who, before showing up at the school, had already contacted "Armin" and was blackmailing him somehow to go along with it.

Mr Lisa Goes to Washington was pretty solid too. Jesus Shit, Lisa episodes used to be good.

what was the one where Lisa and Bart enlist into wee military camp?
i remember it felt so drawn out and boring

Secret War of Lisa Simpson, season 8. One of the many reasons I think season 8 is where it goes downhill.

lately i've been into episodes where lisa got BTFO the barbie episode, vegetarian episode, and the angel one

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Personally I'd say Season 15 at the latest when they started doing digital animation. I know a lot of people will disagree with me on it but it really was a turning point after that.

youtube.com/watch?v=KqFNbCcyFkk

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The angel episode always felt weird to me. If Marge believed in angels, she'd know they're spiritual beings and not something that leaves skeletons behind. Yet she was acting like a total asshole in that episode and when an 8-year-old kid is scared she rubs it in Lisa's face like it was some kind of great moral victory for her that her kid was scared. Like what mother acts like that?

Trouble with Season 8:
>The Homer They Fall
>Burns, Baby Burns
>Twisted World of Marge Simpson
>Simpsoncalifragilisticexpiala(Annoyed Grunt)cious
>My Sister My Sitter
>Canine Mutiny
>The Old Man and the Lisa
>Homer's Enemy
>Secret War of Lisa Simpson
Most of the episodes in that season are sub-par. Season 7 is the end of the Golden Age, Season 8 has already lost it.

>she'd know
you'd be amazed how actually little religious people know about religion. People of the same confession can have completelly polarizing believes and no one would say anything.
back on topic, she was never an asshole, she only asked lisa to be with her because she was worried, and she didnt rub it in her face either, just pointed out to her that she deep inside actually believed like every other person for a second, that she wasnt as above others as she thought she was.

Its an strange and very unconfortable episode for many reasons, but marge was actually alright.

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she have faith, that does not mean she know how angel works, like how they breed or reproduce, she only believe they exist

Panda Rape

>they're spiritual beings and not something that leaves skeletons behind
Based on what exactly?

Logic. If they had flesh they'd burn up in the atmosphere.

Skeletons don't have flesh.

>and she didnt rub it in her face either, just pointed out to her that she deep inside actually believed like every other person for a second, that she wasnt as above others as she thought she was.
Right, she had a smug smile and told an 8-year-old that she wasn't such hot shit after all. That's a douchy thing to do and it's one of the many reasons I think Marge is a bad person.

Angels don't really have a form, they're basically just balls of light.

>he's too poor to afford a flesh suit
Look at this dude
Look at the top of his skull

there is nothing douche in telling a little girl she is full of shit, specially to someone like lisa that can handle that and more.

There was no hard transition, just a soft decline into mediocrity. What's more interesting to look at is what episodes started the trends that would become more commonplace in Zombie Simpsons.

Ex. While there was no shortage of celebrity cameos prior to it, Season 10's "When You Dish Upon A Star" was what really kicked off the 'What if the Simpsons met so-and-so?' trend you started seeing more and more of in Zombie Simpsons.

>balls of light
You mean flaming wheels twisting around themselves with a thousand eyes?

Or a fucksquillion wings.

You just don't see it because you hate Lisa.

lisa is my favorite character.
any actual argument you want to make?

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It never became a zombie, that would imply it once died and came back (eg Family Guy and Futurama) I consider his more like "Terminal Simpsons" as like a terminal disease the problems won't go away until it's gone and they only grow stronger as time goes on. I guess it really died around the time Malcolm in the Middle became a thing, as that show did a far better job at making fun of the unrealistic standards TV families lived than the Simpsons did, which was the Simpsons' main purpose.

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yes they have a form, they even turned into humans before the flood.
There were human shaped cherubs on top of the ark, there are many kind of angels.

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well if that's your believe then sure.

see it's easy

I already said everything I had to say, you just refuse to accept anything. You can keep living in your fairy tale land, man, but I'm going to accept the fact that Marge is a shitty mom.

Because its increasingly anachronistic. In 1992, Skinner being a 'Nam vet made sense because most real life vets were in their 30s-40s.

Cut to 2019, and most 'Nam vets are in their late 60s-70s. So a middle-aged man flash-backing to Saigon seems increasingly nonsensical. And this problem is only gonna get worse as the years continue go by.

This is also why The Simpsons made that episode about Homer growing up in the Grunge Era. Him being a 1960s lovechild doesn't work anymore especially since Homer is supposed to be younger than Skinner.

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>people with diferent opinions live in a fantasy land

It confuses me that the series HAS to keep pace with real-life time and has an adjustable timeline instead of letting time progress within the show itself and moving at whatever pace makes sense.
Well whatever, not like I watch the newer episodes anyway.

Yes you do! You can't handle the truth! No truth handler, you!

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That's more issue with the show refusing to let it's characters grow up.

>That episode where Bob gets mutant grasshopper powers or something gay

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you are the kind of person that thinks is right by default, and if others disagree with your thoughts they "dont get it" and are wrong.
I dont think marge is a shitty person but you are starting to sound like one

This was a Treehouse of Horrors episode?

Season 11 Episode 6

No.

>taking a post that's an obvious joke and still trying to engage in a serious argument
Why do you do this? What are you hoping to accomplish?
You can have the last word now.

I stopped watching in season 8, but I assume it was 'okay' for a few years after that.

What are we in now? Season 86?

30?

i just like debating.

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>That absolutely soul punching, gut wrenching moment of absolute and utter despair.

It's embarrassing to admit this, but I was held back a grade once and it was horrifying and distressing in every possible regard so this episode really hit in the emotional cajones. I actually ended up pulling double duty just to catch back up and took some extra classes so they let me bump back up after a few months but fuck was it a trying experience.

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It does feel pretty bad when you actually do your best and it isn't enough. Wish we got to see more of that side of Edna that let Bart pass than the le ebin cynical teacher.

What was the season finale of season 20? Was it the one where Bart and Lisa grow up and we get the story of their children?

So, Yea Forums.
You get to kill off one classic Simpsons character forever in a new episode. Which one do you choose, and how do you go about it?

It was just all very humanizing, and I miss that side of things. Looking back it's crazy to see that people used to think that the show was edgy. In all honesty it's anything but. The family are all frequent church goers, they constantly look out for each other in various ways and Bart, the perpetual troublemaker, openly cries to his teacher when he feels like he really his dumb. He doesn't try and cheat, he doesn't write it off as school being stupid, he works his little fingers to the bone and then it just ins't enough it crushes his little heart. The D- minus isn't a joke because LOL HE'S STUPID. It means the absolute world to him, because for that single sliver of a second, for that single instance when his work paid off because the knowledge he studied stuck it made him realize that he's not a COMPLETE failure.

His life's not perfect, but it not's the worst.

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>including the unfortunate Nedna thing
I haven't seen that, but people pointed out to me that was actually good. Until she died, that is.

Reminder that Bart canonically gets to be in the supreme court.

>Homer has two left hands

So I just spent the better part of... however long this thread has been up, reading writers comments and listing to some of the audio commentaries and I think I sussed out where things really went wrong in the biggest way.

Writers aren't writing from experience. They're not writing about their own families, they're not writing about their teachers or neighbors or their real life experiences. Not personal anecdotes, not momentous periods in their lives. It's all just cheesy references and attempts to be as off the wall as possible.

And that's where the humanity is lost.

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>tfw I grew up with a lot of post season 10 episodes
>tfw Anons list episodes in this thread that I really liked as a kid
Feels weird. As a child I couldn't really tell between older and newer episodes, until my country's voice actress for Marge died and was replaced by a new one who completely fucked up the voice.
I think I generally liked a lot of the episodes because they could still make me laugh. I found Principal and the Paulper hillarious because it was so ridiculous. I guess it's because I didn't grow up _only_ with the earlier seasons that my emotional connections to the characters wasn't that strong. Maybe I was just a dumb kid though.

My favourite episode is And Maggie Makes Three. Maybe it wasn't back in the day, but it sure as hell is now.

Counterpoint: some of the funniest episodes are surreal and absurd (Homer and the sugar in Lisa's Rival, Mountain of Madness, Marge vs The Monorail)
Although when it comes to touching or emotional moments you're absolutely right, the chemistry isn't there anymore.

The Way We Was, I Married Marge, Lisa's First Word and And Maggie Makes Three form a beautiful family history.

Counter Counter Point: Surrealism only works when juxtaposed against humanity and reality. Without these things surrealism becomes the new reality and these elements become the norm, not comical aberrations.

But I agree, you can have some really gut busting off the wall moments.

I should watch those back to back sometime.

So, in other words, we are back to Miyazaki's "Anime was a mistake." interview again.

theringer.com/tv/2017/8/18/16157978/the-best-simpsons-episodes-10-1

This is a really interesting read.

Well I wouldn't go that extreme. But when your show one based around a family dynamic in sitcom fashion it helps.

I think the traced picture looks more gritty and creepy. The original is too bright and colourful.

btw I'm american

I checked the ranking before reading it and don't necessarily agree with it, will read now and see if it's well backed up.

Well he admits to a certain amount of bias but a lot of this based on a lot of external feedback. Still worth noting that every top 10 is from s7 or lower.

>Well I wouldn't go that extreme. But when your show one based around a family dynamic in sitcom fashion it helps.
Don't take that quote literally, it's not really Miyazaki's point. During the interview he says that back in his day, anime was created based on real life experiences and humans interacting with humans, while nowadays anime is created based on other anime instead. That's basically your point up there, I presume?

I suppose I also finally realize the true meaning of why Platon did not like art. He saw reality as a recreation of an ideal, and art would just be a recreation of a recreation. It's not exactly the same quote, but I see somewhat of a pattern here.

And none of them are stinkers, that's for sure.

Also worth nothing that s4 has the most entries, making up almost half the list.

That's not that hard if your sister is president. I smell some serious nepotism.

>Whats your favorite episode
In no particular order:
Lemon of Troy
22 Short Films About Springfield
You Only Move Twice
Homer's Enemy
Mr Plow
Homer Badman

>Homer at the Bat
Does it bother anyone else than an episode full of celebrities playing themselves is actually really, really good?

>That's basically your point up there, I presume?

It's the long and skinny of it I suppose. The Simpsons started by being a counter culture of the standard american sitcom and showing what real families where like. Then as the years went by and more shock based shows started getting popular Simpsons basically became a parody of itself. It had to out Family Guy, Family Guy.

The problem was never really the celebrity cameos in and of itself. It's always how the where used and in this case the celebrities where all used very well. They where allowed to be made fun of and had a good giggle at their own expenses. It wasn't "Hey White Stripes, look we have the White Stripes on our show!"

I seriously have no idea who the white stripes are.

This is why George Carlin was funny. He made fun of shit he saw and does a lot of voice impressions of people you'd hear in real life.

This. While fiction is immiation of reality, nowdays fiction is just immiation of immitation. Repeated ad nauseam.

Probably Duffless, as a former alcoholic, it hits way too close to home but it was so funny and heartwarming that I can't help but put it as my favorite.

>Mr Plow
I haven't seen that episode in 20 years or so and don't remember much about it. Why is it rated so highly among fans? Honest questions, what is happening in that episode? Only thing I remember is Homer and Barney both getting a snowplow and becomnig business rivals.

That's literally it. Homer becomes Mr. Plow, Barney becomes Plow King. It's zany, it uses the "Homer gets a job cliche" and it's almost completely flawless.
It also has this classic line.

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>nowdays fiction is just immiation of immitation. Repeated ad nauseam.

Right. Very little is written from actual ideas about the world. Instead it's all marketed fads. It would be a lie to say it wasn't always business focused first and foremost but it's just become so unabashedly so that they're not even pretending otherwise. And while it might be easier to point at the people selling this shit, audiences eat it all up, which is really the saddest part of all.

Well I haven't watched it recently, either but from what I recall it's just an all around very good episode. I don't know if I'd call it one of my favorites but it's a very good example of what the standard average SHOULD be.

I think that it's lot of things in it:
Snow starts being a bitch
Homer gets idea to make money with plow
The guy named Valclav
He and his family make Mr. Plow commercial
Homer inspires Barney to be his best
Barney ends up stealing his job

Great commercial too.

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The joke that a Nam vet is such a door mat and is so anal is genius

That was asinine, why did they think no one cared about Skinner? A character who's been there since season one, is strongly related to Bart and Lisa, he even developed his own life outside of the children

Homer Goes to College, every joke is 10/10
Marge on the Lamb is a close runner up

Thinking more about the more surreal moments of the show there really where a lot of good ones. Por Exemplo

youtube.com/watch?v=PX05DJWNj3k

Lisa has a jam session with the cloud ghost of Bleeding Gums. It's certainly not realistic, but it's a very nice moment where Lisa says goodbye to someone who was a very dear friend to her and helped her in the past. It's unrealistic, but it's also earned. The built up a strong emotional foundation and EARNED the right to do something fantastical.

Rod and Todd in a car crash caused by Ned not paying attention to the road because he got mad at Homer.

Right. This is something that can happen because it's a cartoon but that has impact because of the real connection to characters that's been built previously. This is the whole point of the Simpsons I think.

He didn't just think people wouldn't care about Skinner, he thought it was weird that people cared AT ALL. Harry Shearer would reply

> "That's so wrong. You're taking something that an audience has built eight years or nine years of investment in and just tossed it in the trash can for no good reason, for a story we've done before with other characters. It's so arbitrary and gratuitous, and it's disrespectful to the audience.

The IRS one? I think it's season 7 - 8

Marge on the Lamb

It's "Marge on the Lam".

>2025
>There will be an episode where he kdis discover Homer's old soundclap trap career
>Skinner is an Iraq war vet
>Grandpa is a Vietnam vet
>Krusty is now a wash up from the 90's

Who is even the most recent recurring character? The YEEEEEEEEEEES guy? Gill?

Also a lot of weird surreal plots were often social satire so still grounded in some form of humanity

More so Anno's write what you see around you and take inspiration from your own life, other wise media becomes incestuous

Episode 300. It was everything wrong the Simpsons all in one episode and the new normal for the show going on.

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I still have no idea who any of those baseballers are but they do a good job making them funny with out you needing to know about them

Shearer may be a mad man but he's always right

Well that's part of why it worked. All you really need to know is their famous ball players. Their misfortunes and them all winding up at the kids game is funny on a conceptual level.

You now remember that incredibly broken PS2 game
youtube.com/watch?v=9ZNBWkL53vE

The Softball episode was godtier while the Sexual Harassment and Springfield shots were a close second

This isn't anything to do with the game but was there ever an actual Sherry and Teri episode? Seems like for as much as they waste time on rando towns folk the classmates never really evolved

Skinner's Nam flashbacks make you really appreciate the best Steamed Hams meme
youtube.com/watch?v=V8kp3b5h2DY

They were just background characters.

I'm not sure anyone but Nelson, Millhouse and Ralph ever got their own episode. Martin is probably the most prominent classmate without his own episode.

Unless of course they changed that. I think there was an episode where Bart and Lisa think they killed Martin. Does that count as a Martin episode?

They don't know what to do with. Some times they are antagonist towards Bart and Lisa, sometimes they are friends. Also they don't really have any personality outside of being twins. A lot of the old kids are dropped after like season 3. Bart's other friends. Wendle, Nelson's younger cronies

>the best Steamed Hams meme
>not the Quentin Tarantino one
>not the Gorilla's Feel Good Inc one

Every single one of these simpsons memes is a cancer and you should kill yourself.

Bob should have been written out of the show permanently after the dam episode it was peak Sideshow Bod and nowhere but down from there

let´s say it this way. Most protestant churches in America are mixture of heretical believes and "screw you I will make my own church." America was created by a puritants who were too much even for Europe of its time. That stain will never go off.

Books of Enoch IS NOT A FUCKING CANNON

Don't have a cow, man.

Because none of the next generation of writers has time to spend with their kids/has kids and they never had a childhood in the first place. So no one has that information anymore, eventually future generations will look back on those episodes with confusion.

>It's all just cheesy references and attempts to be as off the wall as possible.
This. Old episodes would have weird shit, magical realism and absurd, fantastical scenarios but they'd either be quick gags, built up through the entire episode or occasionally be the subject once in a blue moon, now almost every episode of the Simpsons is them going on some kind of fantastic adventure or meeting a world famous celebrity. The series is no longer grounded the regular episodes are Treehouse of Horror tier fantasy while Treehouse of Horror went from horror/comedy staring the Simpsons, to movie parodies to summaries of recent (two year old) movies staring Simpson characters in cosplay

>"Anime was a mistake."
Speaking of anime the anime cameo from a couple years back that everyone was raving about was pure unadulterated cancer

It also did not age well, I think. Isn't Attack on Titan pretty much dead? Atleast in the mainstream, I mean.

>During the interview he says that back in his day, anime was created based on real life experiences and humans interacting with humans, while nowadays anime is created based on other anime instead
Except anime has always copied other mediums especially American movies, the thing is the creators had more eclectic tastes and could add some originality to their works now it's manga/LN adaptions and chasing trends with generic shit otakus eat up (harem, battle academies, battle academy harems, cheat iseaki)

Not to mention shallow character tropes like tsundere, kuudere, yandere...

The Adam West cameo always stood out to me as the best one and a perfect mirror to modern cameos. West showed up once for a quick gag and left instead of having an entire episode revolve around felating him, modern celebrity episodes are pretty much sanctioned Simpsons mary-sue fan fiction for the rich and famous

Of course anime also copied other media. All media always copy other media. But it's the human element that is completely missing now, atleast according to Miyazaki. People growing up as otaku - not just watching anime, but actively secluding themselves from anything but anime - will not be able to make great anime themselves, because they substitute their experiences with artificial experiences.

You make a good point there Super Satan

>Books of Enoch IS NOT A FUCKING CANNON
But it is a pretty fun game

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I think the premise of the episode could've worked in The Simpsons if they actually made it clear it was supposed to be a joke. Like take the same idea of "hey this character is a fraud but everything returns to normal at the end cause it's TV" and apply it to a character no one is really emotionally invested in, like Hans Moleman.

that episode was good though

This is episode is just abyssmal. The twist was predictable because we see the mall guys "getting an idea". Lisa asks that one dude to do the test, he gives her fake answer because he didn't do tests anyway. Why not? Because drama had to keep going until reveal.

And saying that the skeleton didn't belong to an angel doesn't mean that angels aren't real. By the logic of the episode, the angels really don't exist because they are just marketing scheme.
Everyone in this episode was downright retarded.

Which, of course, exist because other anime also have them. These tropes originate in characters that are an example of the trope, but not for the sake of having the trope. For example, Asuka in Evangelion is a tsundere, sure, but it makes sense for her to be a tsundere. Her entire lifestory turned her into the person she is in the series. Her pushing others away and building herself up through disdain for others (Shinji) to hide her own insecurities directly results from the psychotic episodes of her mother who replaced her with a doll.

Other anime writers see Asuka, think she's pretty cool (or they want to fuck her), and include a copy of her in their own show without understanding or caring about the underlying narrative.

Shut up, El Shaddao. Nobody played you.

I partially agree with you, but I think the scientist not doing the test was a nice touch. I saw that as him being just as insecure and scared as everyone else.

>People growing up as otaku - not just watching anime, but actively secluding themselves from anything but anime - will not be able to make great anime themselves
That's what I mean, when you go back and read/watch manga and anime classics you can see all the weird shit and the kind of things the author likes
>Hideo Kojima's game Snatcher is pretty much Lethal Weapon:Cyber Punk edition right down to the two MC being Murtagh and Riggs
>Hokuto no Ken is Mad Max but staring Bruce Lee and then later Sylvester Stallone
>Dorohedoro is inspired by industrial metal
>Everything concerning Jojo
Now just look at some of the most popular shit people read; Iseaki adaptions that all look the same. Granted popular shit has always been shit, but there are plenty of manga and anime made by people who give a damn and are not out to make a lazy buck

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>There'll be no hospital then, I'll tell the children
Probably the cruelest joke in the first eight seasons next to Grimey but I laugh every time

>This is also why The Simpsons made that episode about Homer growing up in the Grunge Era.
they fucking HWAT?

That 90s Show (2008)

2000

My theory is when celebrities started playing as themselves and is the center of the story. the MJ one doesnt count because MJ was big fat white dude pretending to be MJ.

I am pleasently surprised how quickly people jump to separate characters like Asuka from the trash. Just goes to show how much Yea Forums likes Eva.

Everything you said are my thoughts exactly.

>HWAT
jeez, calm down hank

youtube.com/watch?v=0TWNgDUzqDg
This is hands down my favourite joke ever in the whole series

What about the baseball episode though?

>this was more than ten years ago
FUCKING
HELL

Forgot the gif

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Actually, someone mentioned Herman before and I thought up the perfect idea for a plot like that:

Herman gets busted by the IRS for abusing programs intended to benefit returning soldiers. Turns out he was lying the entire time about being a Vietnam veteran just so he could get benefits, much gasping ensues until everyone realizes no one cares about Herman, he ends up homeless and broke when the IRS takes all his shit but ends up back to where he was before in his antique shop by some other scummy way like scamming big corporations. Done.

>all those marker streaks

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Well, aren't there like three different stories how he lost his arm anyway? I know one of them was being a cartoon artist.

Well it's easily one of the best examples. Look at how many Rei clones we see.

He stuck it out a bus window.

S2-7/8: Golden Age.
S8-12/13 Silver Age.
S14-21/22 Bronze Age
S22+ "Stop Stop He's Already Dead" Age

Really Bronze Age is Zombie Simpsons, but it seems more grounded and has less of the "We'll do whatever we want" attitude they've had for the last 8/9 seasons.

One thing I've noticed about the Silver Age is that it actually goes against the argument (valid today) that the show never changes. There actually seemed to be attempts by the crew to change the status quo and grow characters:
>Skinner and Krabappel getting together.
>Apu becoming a father.
>Barney realizing he's a failure at life and kicking his alcoholism.
>Lisa becoming Buddhist.
There are probably a few others I can't recall, but it really seemed like they were actually shaking things up to not go stale. I actually wouldn't be surprised we'd learn that they considered making characters get older but got shot down by higher ups.

In the Bronze age they either undid alot of those changes or if they introduced them they either reset them by the end of the episode or completely forgot about them.
>Skinner and Edna breaking up.
>Barney becoming a drunk again out of nowhere.
>Homer and Bart becoming Catholic and not ever being acknowledged again.

It's not like The Simpsons ever really cared much about making their tertiary characters consistent. Nelson used to have two parents, then he was living with his dad, then his mom, yeah I dunno. But like I said I'm just spitballing.

they werent solving the problems they were part of the joke. Many of them ended up with a bad end. It's when the celebrity isnt made fun of that harshly.

I agree with this for the most part but I love season one, it’s still working through things but it’s really great all on it’s own. Glad you included season 2 in the golden era, the fans that always say season 3 and onward get under my skin because season 2 is absolutely brilliant.

The decline era is actually more painful to revisit than the zombie era. You can see things falling apart, characters becoming generic, beloved tropes/traits being phased out. The Zombie era is simply “whatever,” you know what to expect. It’s the difference between watching a loved one as they die in a hospital bed and visiting their grave.

The “return to form” era is so often overlooked and I’ve been preaching it for years. There was an invigorated spirit at the time. I think some classic writers came back for a last hurrah.

The only point of your I would contend with is the “return to zombie” seasons. I define these seasons as the experimental seasons. Sometimes they figure something out and give us an episode that nearly achieves the golden era...or at least the decline era, while other times they give us garbage that trumps even the worst zombie era episode. It’s tremendously hit or miss.

Thank you! Even the town was in shambles, everything was falling apart and everyone was corrupt. The big things like the Retirement Castle being rotten to the core to the little details like broken windows at the local ballpark.

How about One Fish, Two Fish, Blowfish, Blue Fish?

Literally return to status quo: the episode.

>Literally return to status quo: the episode.

But this is usual for sitcoms. Futurama even had joke about it.

Just because everyone does it doesn't mean it's a good thing.

But's it's good if you need a definite cut off point. There were some signs earlier. But if you had to pick an episode to draw a line in sand on, that's as good as any.

t. ken keeler

Each character shows up for a few 5-10 second jokes, their 'gimmicks' are all quickly established, and the players all just kind of have fun with letting the writers poke fun at them. It works because the cameos are still just cameos, the story is still focused on the characters we care about, the cameos just add a little flavor to it.

Compare that to celebrity-driven episodes like When You Dish Upon a Star or Lisa Goes Gaga where the ENTIRE episode centers around (Insert Celebrity Guest Star Here) to the point where they're driving other characters out of the spotlight so they can have their spotlight or soapbox or whatever.

When seymour skinner was revealed to not be Seymour skinner.

I think the *end* of Season 9 is the best cutoff point. There's still a lot of good episodes in the rest of the season (City of New York vs Homer Simpson, Joy of Sect, Das Bus, etc), and the last three episodes of the season can kind of function as nice little wrap up for the series if you're not interested in watching more:

"King of the Hill" has Homer making a point of trying to get into shape and doing something that makes his son proud. "Lost Our Lisa" has Homer genuinely bonding with Lisa and teaching her a valuable life lesson about not being afraid to take chances and stupid risks in life. And "Natural Born Kissers" has Homer and Marge working through some of their marriage issues and ends with them rekindling the spark in their relationship.

it was at least watchable Post-Season 10 until the Movie which was Great but everything Simpsons After the Movie is just miserable to watch.

Watchable, maybe, but in more of the "thing you played in the background while you did something else" sense.

Mental retardation, something related to vaccines in the USA during the 90s. It is an episode that mocks twists like this but people don't seem to get it.

Even thinking of the scene is making me tear up. It really showed how hard he tried and how just a little bit of effort goes a long way. Even Edna despite doing her job as a teacher sympathized with him and did what she did. I'm starting to remember why I loved The Simpsons as a kid. Subconsciously, those episodes stuck with me. Same applies to the show today, a little bit of effort can go a long way and sometimes you can see it here and there.

I'm trying to remember all the Simpsons episodes post-movie that I liked, Holidays of Future Passed, Futurama episode, Lego episode, I think that was it.

Huh, never thought about it that way.

Immediately after Spin-Off Showcase. Continuing the show after a season ending like that is just a bad omen.

Contrary to what that essay on the Dead Homer Society blog asserts, the show had a lot of heart in those first ten seasons. For all the family's faults, vices, and eccentricities, they tried to do right by one another. The key element here that the essay misses is that while the show had a lot of heart, it was never sappy or melodramatic about it. This isn't Lifetime movie schlock because you actually care about the characters and find them relatable.

OG Simpsons was full of sarcastic, satirical humor, but it also made actual attempts to engage with the audience. It wans't like post-cancellation Family Guy where everything is nihilistic, the characters have zero depth, and the writers don't give a shit about making anything engaging.

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Exactly. Homer is no longer an everyman who faces believable problems we've encountered in our own lives. He's wacky cartoon man who shouts and gets injured.

I'm kind of glad I didn't bother to read the Dead Homer Society blog.

Well said

It makes lots of valid observations, but that particular point just doesn't feel right.

When he actually gives enough of a shit to try, his talents usually far exceed Lisa's own. It's just he's constantly shit on by people like her when he does it because they can't stand the idea of him being good at anything.

You do.

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Zombie Simpsons has gone on so long, Julie Kavner actually sounds like a Zombie now.

I hate this video. It's mostly plagiarised from the essay on the topic on deadhomersociety.com/zombiesimpsons/.

yeah, that one

>Al Jean
He is the fucking worse and turned the Simpsons into the most fang-less, uninteresting possible show.

Season 12

Or they both told each other their life stories in Vietnam and when they got tortured their memories mixed together

btw didn't they made an episode that show Skinner as baby inside Abnes's womb?

I watched one about Homer having a crayon in his brain on TV this week. It looked kind of older. Was that a zombie episode?

I was born in 2001 so I don't know the Simpsons very well.

S12. So really it depends on the individual's opinion for that period. Though that one does prove the point in about how they started to introduce major changes then write it out by the end of the episode.

Why are they not in order ? This is triggering me

>Whats your favorite episode, Yea Forums?
Cape Feare and that Treehouse Horror where Homer travels in time and Willie just keeps dying.
Bart vs. Australia too

season 3

IN A GADDA DA VIDA