Weirdest Editorial Mandates

Hold up. When did this happen cause that sounds really lame

They should just drop the whole "Last Son of Krypton" from their marketing entirely. Also doesn't really make sense when he grew up on Earth, in all ways but physical Clark is an Earthling.

In 2000-something Joe Quesada said smoking was no longer allowed in Marvel comics

Wolverine's in universe explanation for giving up cigars was " Well sure 'I' can't get cancer, but I don't want to set a bad example"

>Villains can still smoke, but that's OK, because villains are stupid," Quesada told The Post, elaborating that the decision was instituted because it was the "responsible thing" to do.

>Quesada went on to say that the "main culprit" was Wolverine, the cigar-chomping star of the company's best-selling X-Men titles, which were turned into a hit movie last year.

>"[Wolverine] is a role model for some kids and he shouldn't be smoking," Quesada said. "Besides, the healing factor would keep him from getting addicted to nicotine anyway, so it doesn't even make sense for him to smoke."

>The Post article went on to report that the no-smoking ban will also target Wolverine's fellow X-Man Gambit, as well as two of Marvel's oldest characters - Nick Fury, Agent of S.H.I.E.L.D., and the ever-lovin' blue-eyed Thing.

>The no-smoking decision was a personal one for Quesada, a non-smoker who lost his grandfather to smoking-related emphysema and saw his father suffer a collapsed lung from smoking last year and still have problems quitting.

If only someone in Quesada's family had been cuckolded instead, so he set an edict against married superheroes cheating or getting cheated on.

The weirdest for me was the ban on marriages. At first it looked like they were just trying to sidestep controversy with Kate Kane marrying Maggie Sawyer, but then they applied that shit across the board. None of the fan favorite couples were even dating for a good long while. I will never understand why Marvel and DC are both so afraid of their big heroes marrying and starting families of their own. Do they think we want to see these people float around from incomplete relationship to the next?

>sidestep controversy with Kate Kane marrying Maggie Sawyer

Weird thing is they gave JH III the greenlight when he pitched the idea nearly a year in advance. Whoever told him he had to change it didn't get cold feet until he was working on the issue

>the rage driven murder machine with knives that jut out of his hands, that describes his abilities in terms of extreme violence is a role model

I heard he still carries a grudge. Don’t blame him if he does. That whole situation was fucked and cost DC a damn good title. They still don’t know what to do with Batwoman.

Apparently Warlock from New Mutants was killed off because Adam Warlock was coming back and Bob Harras thought it was too confusing. Also he just didn't want a robot alien hanging out with a X team

Zod appears in an insanely low amount of stories for his popularity tier. Most normies would usually understand "Kneel before Zod" but he isn't a big villain. I believe that if the mandate wasn't there, they could have made Zod more popular. They really had make up a new Zod every two years because nostalgia for Donner movies were coming back and they had no real Kryptonian Zod. I'm glad he's back though. He has already appeared in more comics in the new continuity than in old one in 3 years

Everyone jizzes their pant for the Batfamily though. Every DC fangirl is first and foremost a Batfamily fujoshit.

>None of the fan favorite couples were even dating for a good long while. I will never understand why Marvel and DC are both so afraid of their big heroes marrying and starting families of their own. Do they think we want to see these people float around from incomplete relationship to the next?

DC aren't consistently as bad at this as Marvel are, but for some reason a lot of the big popular couples aren't allowed to be together, or be married. They really think the soap opera drama of characters bouncing from one short term relationship to another is more compelling, and people like Brevoort are in positions of power, convinced that making readers angry sells more comics, and nothing makes readers angrier than seeing a couple they love torn apart, and both dating the 'wrong' person.

Characters like Spider-Man or Cyclops, where fans are divided over who they should be with, are very rare. In most cases, it's not difficult to give the audience what they want.

>Do y'all remember when they didn't allow extra Kryptonians after Crisis on Infinite Earth.
I genuinely love the idea of Superman LITERALLY being the only kryptonian.
t. 30 year old that grew up on STAS and hated even Jax-Ur and Mala

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I mean that was kinda lame for him to do but I do feel bad for him. This wouldn't make much sense in universe. Wolverine smokes and drinks because he is depressed loser, he doesn't need an addiction. He is just trying to get his mind of stuff.

Kate marrying Maggie would have been a huge mistake, they barely had a relationship.

Zod was at least more prominent than Steppenwolf, but in this case, I think it was a good idea. Superman having an evil Kryptonian as a bad guy makes tons of sense.

That's on DC for being retarded.

Like, just look at how much Green Arrow’s solo jumped up just because he’s dating Black Canary again. Is it so much that these characters have a chance to be happy? Like, a large part of Percy’s run is just how much Dinah and Ollie improve each other just by being involved in a relationship.

Thats because in fandom, they all look like twinky K-pop stars and have the personalities of the Ninja Turtles but more exaggerated

Joe Quesada is a fucking faggot and I hope his children die before him

Jax-Ur and Mala not coming back was hugely wasted potential.

>Didn't like DCAU Supergirl

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kind of. See while The fujoshits loves the batfamily, many creators don't. They all want to write solo Batman story and when it was just Robin more could be done....but now good luck trying to justify it. This is why Ric Grayson is a thing.

>editorial
Wasn't it mostly John Byrne? There's a story about him throwing a shitfit about Supergirl's ghost appearing to Deadman to the point where an editor drew the fucking issue so he wouldn't start shit with the artists.

Or look at how a big part of the Aquaman fanbase, comic and movie, is because of his relationship with Mera. Look at how so many Marvel readers just forgave and forgot Spencer's Captain America and Secret Empire, because he got Peter and MJ back together. Look at how Gambit and Rogue haven't mattered to the core X-books in years, but put them together and they're popular enough to hold their own book.

It really is like a lot of comics writers and editors like hurting the fans more than they like making money.

>Every Robin has died
For some reason most creators admit to not liking Robin and Batfamily even though it is pretty popular. Guess it's not grimdark enough for them

>think they retconned Power Girl's origins too.
She became the atlantean grandaughter of Lord Arion. Those Atlanteans were pre-flood. She spent some time in the pages of Warlord because of it.

I’d go so far as to say that the Aquaman movie wouldn’t’ve been nearly as popular if it wasn’t for Mera. Without that relationship, the audiences wouldn’t care about Arthur’s success as much as they would with her.

I'm going to agree mainly because I see Maggie as part as Superman's supporting cast and she had perfectly good lover/partner/wife already pre-flashpoint.

it comes from them all wanting to do Batman on the edge stories. Batman more than most characters is kind of stuck in this mode of
-NO HELP
-Will he kill?
-Gotham in shambles
-WHO DID IT? WHO BETRAYED HIM?
-The Joker killed so many people
-SOMEONE CLOSE TO HIM DIED
-THIS IS A WAR!

While No Man's Land had good moments, to act like Gotham was beyond help stretched many people's suspension of disbelief. Yet most creators want Batman to be like that all the time so that there stories matter.

Even if it started as Byrne's idea, DC stuck to it until the early 2000s when Loeb reintroduced Supergirl. It wouldn't be the last time Byrne had a stupid idea that wrecked characters but everyone else blindly obeyed it for years afterwards. Just look at Sandman being a villain again, or at everything he did to Scarlet Witch & Vision. Nobody wants to fix these things, despite readers wanting it.

She wasn't kryptonian.

Where the he'll have you been in the last 15/20 years? Quesada explicitly banned smoking on Marvel because he quit smoking IRL and wants the company to be safe for kids. He even made TPBS and omnis with characters smoking on the cover to have cigarettes and pipes removed.

I agree, but I feel like that’s a mistake that should’ve played out in the comics. With Maggie being as uneasy with Kate as Batwoman as she was, there’s no way they would’ve lasted, and I think that’s where the narrative was headed with them inevitably divorcing. Seeing their doomed relationship unravel would’ve been compelling as fuck. But instead we got nothing.

He's right to carry a large grudge. There was the Batwoman situation, but apparently they also fucked around with part of a contract he signed. Allegedly, he agreed to draw Sandman Overture if Promethea got an gigantic Artist's Edition.
Then DC ran the numbers, realized what it would cost versus who would buy it, and it's never come out.
Then he got angry at them for letting steve orlando use Promethea in one-and-a-half issues of his Justice League America even though Promethea was work-for-hire for ABC and he has no creative rights to stop them if they had asked.

oh god Vision and the Scarlet Witch just need to get back together at this point. I know one of the reasons Kurt Busiek tried to avoid it was that he didn't want it be an easy fix and Wanda to stand on her own, but there was a time when Vision was the real lead character of the Avengers and I think most fans just want him back.

What do you mean, where have I been? I'm complaining about a retarded editorial mandate in the appropriate thread.

Damn, bro. I forgot. That was pretty weird now that I think about it. They no reason to not make her a Kryptonian

Throw in how every writer has to do their own Batman talking about what the death of his parents meant to him moment. I think too many writers want to do 6 to 12 issue epics instead of concise stories

This whole period was just bizarre.

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Why do the big publishers continue to fuck over the talent like this? Especially the heavy hitters like JH III? It never plays out well and alienates the creators that fans buy.

cope

Seeing them all compiled makes me think that was the second Legacy era but most of those aren't canon or don't apply

>oh god Vision and the Scarlet Witch just need to get back together at this point.

Sadly, Marvel are fighting it, and fighting hard. Vision got two new families, Wanda got pointless, lifeless relationships with Wonderman and then Brother Voodoo, and almost kissed Conan the Barbarian because Marvel can't even have characters do a completely platonic team-up.

>I know one of the reasons Kurt Busiek tried to avoid it was that he didn't want it be an easy fix and Wanda to stand on her own,

She'd already been standing on her own for years at that point. He could have taken his time and slowly reunited them, instead he paired her up with someone else for years, and inspired later writers like Remender to copy what he did.

> but there was a time when Vision was the real lead character of the Avengers and I think most fans just want him back.

If Marvel did for Wanda and Vision what they've done for Gambit and Rogue, they'd probably be shocked by how much of an audience there'd be for it. If the Disney+ series doesn't force Marvel to reunite them, nothing ever will.

Batman is one of those characters who MOST people know it's a big honor. One problem is that they think the Killing Joke is the bar when they should look at stories like Five way revenge or The Englheart/ Rogers run for what Batman stories you can do.

Batman is the Aristocrats of characters where everyone is trying to outshock each other. The best Batman story Tom King wrote was the Elmar Fudd crossover and I doubt he thinks that way.

I unironically agree with this. Smoking should be phased entirely out of culture.

What did they do to Alfred?

Alfred's still Alfred. That's his daughter

>Do y'all remember when they didn't allow extra Kryptonians after Crisis on Infinite Earth. They had to make Zod a Russian super soldier and made Matrix Supergirl. That was weird.

i kind of liked that. also powergirl being from atlantis lol. so random

I support a ban on selling tobacco to anyone born in 2020 or later but I'm not pretend that an immortal killing machine can't smoke a cigar because it's bad for him.

Fucking /pol/ will shit their diapers over anything I swear to Christ

WHEN DID ALFRED GET A DAUGHTER?
ALFRED HAS FUCKED SOMEONE?

>Alfred isn’t one of the most desirable men in the DCU

Everything involving X-Men

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your not wrong. Joe Q thought the X-men were not Minority enough so he said there could only about like about 200 of them.

The intent was to cull a bunch of characters but really all it did was ham string the writers into making weird version of character who had there powers but where not mutants or finding a way to give them back.

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I was fine with the "no more mutants" stuff. In my opinion, the X-writers handled it well and we got some good stories out of it

You don't remember the new Warrior of that time do you?

Guess tangerines weren't the only thing he was looking for in the jungle.

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>cherry picked image with no context for anything
>crossing out the X-Men as if they stopped existing like the F4 when that's demonstrably false

This is so fucking pathetic holy shit

Alfred is canon Chad

Okay in the X-men case they where downplayed. Hell even a writer at the time commented on how little money Marvel gave the X-office.

Yeah, the X-men image should flow into Inhumans image

There were still a ton of big X-men books and events happening during this time. Regardless the whole image is disengenuous as fuck.

>smoking isn't cool, but stabbing people in X-Force is A-OK.

to say Jeff Lemire on team book was big is being disingenuous. There were popular books like Old Man Logan, but they way Marvel treated them was pretty bad. Hell the Inhumans vs X-men drama still sours the whole thing.

It happened because in the early 2000s, Marvel allowed the number of mutants in the world to increase from a few thousand, to millions, completely changing the X-books, and making it something the rest of Marvel couldn't really ignore. They decided this was a mistake they needed to back out of, but instead of just losing most of the new mutants, they instead de-powered a lot of other characters so they could do years of 'endangered species' stories.

During the silver age and height of Superman’s popularity when even Lois and Jimmy had books NO ONE complained about there being more Kryptonians.

You want to know why Batman is th most popular superhero?

He gets to keep his little family intact while Superman and Spidey keep getting fucked over.

Reminds me of this variant that they released when people complained that the other one was too bloody

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>2011-2016
>when Uncanny Avengers was a thing from 2012-2016 and had the X-Men fighting alongside the Avengers as a cohesive unit
>b-but Ike tried to make me like the Inhumans

>"b-but Lemire"
>When there were runs from Remender and Gillem during this time

X-fags really are the worst

Sometimes? Like I get the point but at this point there have been so many stories just about breaking the batfamily. Look at what happen to Batman inc.

sorry meant to reply to in

>to say Jeff Lemire on team book was big is being disingenuous.

To say that Lemire, Hopeless, Bunn, and Taylor weren't big enough names for the X-books misses the bigger picture that after Secret Wars, Marvel had driven away all of their bigger names except Bendis, and Waid, if he still counts as 'big' 20 years after his prime. Nothing else at Marvel had anyone 'big' on it.

You sound like someone who started reading comics in 2015.

Look I get that Uncanny Avengers was a book, but it was an Avengers book, Wolverine was dead, and most of the Inhumans shilling didn't start till 2015, like I get that your tired of the X-fags complaining but Marvel admitted to this. HICKMAN COMMENTED ON IT! There was a lot of bad stories out there that only sold because they where X-men and really the stories where stalling.

Tomasi has said that he had a lot of ideas for arcs on his Nightwing run before DC decided to make Dick take up the cowl.

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>many creators don't
You sure? Feel like all I see is focus on the batfamily.

>There was a lot of bad stories out there that only sold because they where X-men and really the stories where stalling.

The bad news is they weren't selling that well, and hadn't been for some time. With or without the Inhumans push, Marvel were justified in cutting down the number of X-books they published.

Then Guggenheim's X-Men Gold sold well, sadly proving that fans will turn out in numbers for a horribly mediocre book if it has the right cast of characters.

The argument from is that the X-men were downplayed and the seething cherrypicking X-fag that made is that the X-men weren't even around if they were they were treated as lesser than. There were an ass ton of big stories involving the mutants (did people just forget stuff like Axis) and a ton of heavily promoted series and spin-offs for characters during this time. Just because the Avengers replaced the X-Men as Marvel's most heavily promoted franchise doesn't mean they were just being tossed scraps. Anyone who actually read comics during 2011-2016 would know this. What I do remember is X-fags complaining about only having 10 ongoing series and minis rather than 20 and people telling them to fuck off.

You're absolutely right, but you're setting yourself up for a reply of "But muh cartoons! Muh merchandise! Muh Marvel vs Capcom!"

Right, but we're talking about comics aren't we? That's what the word editorial implies anyway.

It's kind of complex. But it does boil down on the fact that I think the big problem is that it seemed like Marvel was just trying to tank them but they still sold well. There wasn't really a classic feeling X-men story for a while and not really a cool big project that didn't involve them MCU shilling in some way. Keep in mind I don't think people expected a book like X-men Grand Design to be made a couple years ago for X-men.

Like I know people are like what about the 10 ongoings but for most people those 10 ongoings where shit and really made to only shit on the x-men. If Marvel was downplaying them they were giving them shitty books.

I’m sure he did and does, but Tomasi is basically an idea machine, and Dickbats was a positive move across the board.

>Like I know people are like what about the 10 ongoings but for most people those 10 ongoings where shit and really made to only shit on the x-men. If Marvel was downplaying them they were giving them shitty books.

user, do you really think many other Marvel characters were getting GOOD books? You're living through the worst decade of comics in Marvel's history. It was bad because everything was bad.

>There wasn't really a classic feeling X-men story for a while and not really a cool big project that didn't involve them MCU shilling in some way.

M8 we're still talking about a time period from 2011-2016. You're saying there were no good X-Series at that time? Because that's bullshit. I don't know what you mean by ""classic"" but Uncanny X-Force, Uncanny X-Men by Gillem, Magneto by Bunn, Legion by Spurrier and Age of X happened during this time. All were good to great stories. If things weren't to your taste that's whatever but don't come in here and try to claim that Marvel was trying to hamstring the line for 5 fucking years when they put out some great and risky series. This whole narrative that Marvel was actively trying to torpedo the franchise is just bullshit. Sorry the X-Men weren't the golden child franchise of Marvel for once in over several decades worth of comics.

>Tomasi is an idea machine
An idea machine who never came up with any good idea?

Says you

Marvel didn't try to kill the X-men until they started pushing the Inhumans. The only book you mentioned that was published after the Inhumans push is Magneto. 2014 is when things started going shitty so that's

>2014
>2015
>2016
Inhumans push fizzles out here but Marvel leaves the X-men as a shambling corpse for awhile because they had no contingency for Inhumans being garbage
>2017
>2018
>the first half of 2019

Hickman is the first sign of Marvel giving a shit about the X-men since the post-AvX status quo and guess what, he didn't get announced until after the buyout of Fox was complete.

Cool, so the argument I had was that original cherry picked image made by someone that was angry to see minorities, women, anyone that is remotely similar to an original character introduced was bullshit and the decision to cross out the X-Men and imply they were as dead as the FF from 2011 to 2016 was also bullshit. So Marvel tried to make fetch happen with the Inhumans for three years and it blew up in their face. And then they immediately went back and resurrected Wolverine and Cyclops. They got rid of the time traveling kids. So what's really the problem then? X-books weren't given priority for three years? I thought the inhumans push was as dumb as anyone else but can you not see how entitled it comes off to still be seething about it?

I dunno user, the idea that there were a handful of other kryptonians and one conveniently was his cousin always bothered me, even as a kid.

>whoa man, marvel failed at killing the X-men that means they weren't trying to eliminate them. Let me do damage control now that Disney owns them

I wonder what her relation was going to be in the DCEU? From the looks of it, her escape pod’s been empty for a real long time.

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That image was made for bait and nothing else. Most of that either wasn't an issue because they weren't replacements or just flat out didn't happen at the same time.

By time Cho Hulk even started I'm 90% sure black Power Girl wasn't even in comics anymore.

>Zod is an unusual case, he was a pretty minor villain in the comics

I wonder if the reason Zod wasn't used a lot was because Silver Age writers came up with a new "enemy from Krypton" every few years, without referencing the previous characters based on the same premise. Didn't Jax-Ur debut mere months before Zod did? And even before him, there was another story about Superman taking on criminals from Krypton's past. None of the stories seemed to acknowledge each other.

Logic dictates that sooner or later Superman will meet an human alien as strong as him so by going off that I don't only fail to see the problem with other kryptonians surviving but feel as it's necessary.

>"Marvel slowed up on jerking off the X-men for 3 whole years REEEEEEE this is sacrilege!!!"

cope harder x-fag

>"[Wolverine] is a role model for some kids and he shouldn't be smoking,"

But murder is ok

I’m the best at what I do and what I do is inspire the youth for a better tomorrow bub.

Interesting that you guys keep focusing on the murder when most kids are obviously not going to be driven to stab people with metal claws rather than the regular consumption of alcohol which arguably causes more deaths than cigarette smoke and metal claw stabbings combined.

I think Wiccan is more likely to get banged by Death's Head than Wanda and Vision getting back together.

Wanda is only appearing in comics because of Jim Zub, no other writers seem interested in her, and I would bet good money that the Disney Plus series will be ignored by the comics division.

I didn't smoke because I thought Wolverine doing it was cool; I smoked cos erry goddamn member of my family smoked, and all the friends of th family smoked. Everyone's house/apartment/trailer was outfitted wit ashtray errywhere, and a great big fucking huge one on the motherfucking coffee table.

You ever see someone smoke at the beach...tits-deep in water? I have.

Wot.

There are too many Kryptonians. It makes Superman seem less special, power-wise.

To be honest, asian hulk was not that bad.

Artists barely matter these days. We live in a writers world.

Which is weird because comics are a visual medium. Well, they were till Bendis came along...

Nothing, that's her daughter.

Alfred had a daughter in the 80's, Julia Remarque.

Alfred is the biggest Chad of DC
I ship him with Hippolyta.

But there are already a ton of aliens or even magic beings that are on his level or stronger.

Martians alone have all his powers and more.

This image is dumb as fuck given there has been "new" versions of characters going back for decades now and the Silver Age literally started with a new Flash. And fuck so many of these are alternate universe versions and the majority has gone back to the classic characters.

>pretending anyone having a costume change means anything
>pretending legacy characters aren't classic comics
>pretending characters like Faiza didn't exist for decades or Captain Falcon and Amadeus Hulk didn't feel like organic moves
lol

Guy getting shapeshifting powers in his days as Warrior was a push from editorial to make him more like the Mighty Morphin Power Rangers.

>I just wanted to leave Guy at being the greatest warrior in the DCU… but the powers that be wanted more powers. Ugh…
>At the same time all this power talk was goin’ on, on TV the kid’s show The Mighty Morphing Power Rangers was huge. DC said they wanted Guy to be able to morph weapons. That’s like bein’ a manly blues singer and havin’ your agent say ya gotta sign like Justin Timberlake.

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Dick and Tim haven't died yet.

That image is clearly bait.

Tim literally just "died" after Rebirth, so it counts, right?