Steven Unicerse and STVFE tried to depict racism, fascism, genocide and race wars. Who did it better? And in what ways?

How about we have a show that doesn't try depicting the same societal topics over and over again, for once?

Star. The issues are treated as complex and take time to resolve with ups, downs, and frustration. On the other hand, Steven Universe lowers everyone to the mentality of a ten-year-old and handwaves away sophisticated problems with lots of crying and half-assed speeches.

>implying social issues don't bleed into all types of cartoons

This. The literal race (Species?) traitor would have doomed her people.

Attached: The Freeman.jpg (640x478, 50K)

They both suck but Star probably sucked less. SU is a case of wanting to have your cake and eat it, too. The story writers wanted a comfy goofy adventure with space lesbians but heavy issues like genocide and fascism require more bite than what SU tried to go for.

Seems more like the writers tried to tip toe around fucked up issues and threw conveniences so that the characters could walk around those issues.
>"Oh, humans are just OK with weird alien stuff! No need for an angry mob of pro-humans to tell our space rocks to fuck off when shit always hits the fan, but when they do it's FUCKING RONALDO!"
>"The corrupted are A-OK with being buddy buddies with the Diamonds and CGs now because THEY'RE buddy buddies!"
>"The space fascists just needed some fwends to stop their space genocide. They already love organics now because Steven!"
>"Everybody forgave each other because everyone talked to Steven. Thousands of years of war was just a misunderstanding."
>"Everybody makes mistakes, so it's ok if half our characters attempted murder."
>"but FUCK KEVIN!"

Attached: tumblr_pc4vpd57yt1s15wx0o4_250.png (236x291, 59K)

I honestly can't believe that there are people who think Steven Universe is doing a better job at tackling heavy issues when nobody seems to be angry at eachother for more than a few minutes. The only exceptions so far are Lapis and big muscled lesbian with a helmet for a weapon.

A good twist on the show is that mewmans and monsters are all just aliens from another dimesion that evolved differently, that or ancient humans discovered magic and went to Mewni.

That's true, it's ok for shows to try and do that specially because the people who make this show are well people and most want to Express themselves

>What the fuck is this autistic crossover shipping shit?
It's called a double cuck fetish

>ask a “girl” to dance a couple times
>be regarded as worse than space hitlers who conquered the galaxy
Kevin is the series final boss.

Attached: DA965B1C-821B-42B2-8FE3-46D3ABDB0AA3.jpg (1024x576, 45K)

Star Vs. at least makes a lot of these issues as complex as they would appear to be and make it so that just talking and hugging things out won’t rectify the issue. I like both shows but SU pisses me off in trying to make the issues with the Diamonds something that can be fixed with a song, and showing how gay you are. Some people will hate you and be your enemy, regardless of how nice you are. Some people cannot be fixed. Star literally nuked the guy who would stop at nothing to watch her country burn. Steven would spend three episodes introducing that guy to Lars.

Attached: AB09948B-80A8-4651-8546-5AC3E22FC601.jpg (1024x576, 33K)

this.

but i'd rather watch steven universe on average

Neither. But if I had to choose, I would go with Star vs.

That's another thing Star vs. like Strcen Universe makes the correct assumption that most people are capable of good and redemption, whilenst the same time being lazy, ignorant and spiteful as it has been shown. Star vs goes beyond that and admits that some people are truly irredeemable and incapable of reasoning, something that everyone on the creniverse says they will never depict because they want to send a good message to the kids, which I found admirable. Unfortunately that makes it a bad example to depict all of the bad stuff that happens on the show in a realistic way.

Fuck I'm dead RIP grammar

>Oh, humans are just OK with weird alien stuff! No need for an angry mob of pro-humans to tell our space rocks to fuck off when shit always hits the fan, but when they do it's FUCKING RONALDO!"
There really isn't a 'need'. The reasons are arbitrary and unnecessary to the plot and they would defeat the purpose of Ronaldo as a character... Obviously Beach City's perspective is purposely kept separate from the gems and all the other shit happening in Steven's life, and Ronaldo is the only character 'woke' to it. It's very intentional writing and it would be hilariously inefficient writing to suddenly make everyone believe Ronaldo and force every episode to include Beach City's opinion on everything the gems do, when the story is supposed to be setting up an ongoing conflict with Homeworld and the Diamonds.

Honestly this is a part of the status quo that makes sense and services the plot. Can season 6 change this now that the Diamonds are effectively usurped? Sure.

>"The corrupted are A-OK with being buddy buddies with the Diamonds and CGs now because THEY'RE buddy buddies!
You just made that up.

>but FUCK KEVIN!
Enough of this meme. Steven already got over Kevin.

Steven had the advantage of being a member of the Diamond family, thus having them actually listen to him

Kevin was a literal dick though, he also stole gas.

Steven Universe,it show well why Diamonds would see themselves as superior to humans both cultureally and racially, humans lifestyle was not produtctive, they were emotional, the gems were practical and by this point of view their culture had several advantages plus there was arguments why they would think they are racially superior like never chanding and dying.

It also give Homeworld several reasons for their actions while showing them as the villains, they wanted earth resources so their economy could continue strong, is udnerstable that they would put the needs of their people above ours.

Another thing the show gives is different lvls of racism, Blue Diamond saw herself as benevolent by turning humans into slaves so they could live without considering their feelings about freedom.

It also give The Diamond Authority several reasons to hate people against their supremacy, homeworld is suffering an econimical crisis because they couldn't get mankind resources for themselves, the war took lives even though the goals were noble and it caused chaos.

Star vs in the other hand didn't show any of those things, Moon simply never thought well about the issue of racism before to the point her views were hilarious when explained what feels really out of character for her. Giving the Kingdom to Eclipsa had no real consequence to them besidess having to deal with monsters in a more personal lvl making the whole conflict and opressive system completelly without reasons what is just silly.

>Star vs in the other hand didn't show any of those things, Moon simply never thought well about the issue of racism before to the point her views were hilarious when explained what feels really out of character for her. Giving the Kingdom to Eclipsa had no real consequence to them besidess having to deal with monsters in a more personal lvl making the whole conflict and opressive system completelly without reasons what is just silly.

Moon was prejudiced against monsters for a perfectly believable reason: her mother went out of her way to make peace with the monsters and was murdered by a monster for her trouble.

And the consequence of handing the throne to Eclipsa has been that rather than solving anhy of the problems it's just reversed everything. Now monsters are in the dominant position and mewmans are the ones being discriminated against.

Yeah imagine that, your mom killed

The problem with Steven Universe is Gemlife is objectively superior to organic life.

All Gems are immortal, don't need to eat, sleep or breathe and can survive anywhere from the bottom of the ocean to outer space, they can regenerate from from any damage to their body and even shattered gems can be glued back together to create super fusions like the cluster. And depending on the type of gem they can shapeshift, have elemental control, can build robots and rockets out of a pile of junk, see the future, and probably a few I'm forgetting.

What do humans have by comparison? The only real advantage is that it's easier to make a human than a gem but that doesn't really compare to the huge number of disadvantages, humans need to be able to create other humans quickly because every human is born to die. You can drop a gem on Mars and they'll survive for longer than human history. You drop a human on mars and they'll die in minutes, you drop a human with a spacesuit on mars and they die in hours, you give a human a farm on mars and they die in years. You set up a colony and maybe it can prosper for generations or maybe one of the life support systems fail and it dies out. Gems were designed to colonize space, humans weren't. The simple fact is at anytime an extinction event can hit earth at anytime and wipe out all humans, and the only humans left alive would be the ones at the Zoo. So why should the Gems leave so many resources in the hands of apes destined to die anyways? The moral choice is take the resources so they can make better use of them than the humans ever could and put some of the humans in a nature preserve.

tl;dr humans can never compete with gems because they have to expend massive resources to bring their environment with them while gems can make do almost anywhere.

the diamonds have no interest on wiping out humans, they just wanted a colony, then to wipe out the planet where their sister died
there was no racial/species conflict there
in fact one of the main issues inSU aside from pacing is how separate the human and gem sides of the story and how they don't interact at all
also, something most people forget is that gems are not human, they are made with a purpose and most of them seem fine accomplishing it
the diamonds aren't slavers in the human sense, nor tirants. they are just doing their job and i'm glad the series aknowledged that instead of going le evil hitler diamonds

not only that, but they have shown that they are able to change, and aren't tied to their original purposes
gems are literally better humans, but with a culture that doesn't tell them that
it would have been better if they were more robotic, unable to understand freedom or not being born without a clear purpose
sort of like what rose implied in her episode with greg, but actually developping it

Attached: 7B40C3AC-DB4D-49A4-9A21-4061CBB3BF2B.jpg (1280x872, 119K)

>it would have been better if they were more robotic, unable to understand freedom or not being born without a clear purpose
was that not Peridot's entire arc? being unable to cope with freedom and purposelessness at first then learning to embrace it through art and growth

that's the problem
the fact she is eventually able to embrace it breaks the whole barrier between humans and gems, and leaves them as just overpowered immortal humans
at least that's how i see it

Gems take a fucktoon of resources to produce, their reproduction means lead their society to downfall.

Humans can easily reproduce with far less and increase their population without massive production projectos, also humans can adapt to any job while gems find extremely hard to learn other jobs.

That's why the gem Empire is dying, they cant expand their population or adapt to new situations.

All Crystal Gems began similar to her, that’s the whole point. You’d rather she and no one ever switch?

gems have space faring tech, and 10s of colonies
and while they find it hard to adapt, they can make specialized gems able to surpass anyone

They wanted to destroy earth to get its resources, that's how racial conflicts start, one group want territory and resources so they take from others.

my problem is that humans become useless in the story if gems can easily change and adopt their values
if you are going to take that path, at least don't make town episodes and focus on actually exploring gem society

>Gems take a fucktoon of resources to produce
Not as much as you seem to thing considering a single valley could create hundreds.
>their reproduction means lead their society to downfall.
There are billions of planets in the Milky Way and billions of galaxies in the universe. The Gems aren't hurting for resources.
>Humans can easily reproduce with far less and increase their population without massive production projectos,
Humans need a massive amount of resources and specialized environments to even survive. Everything from diet to atmosphere to temperature to gravity to microorganisms need to be taken into account for humans to be able to survive. That's why colonizing other planets is such a pipe dream and why astronauts can only spend a few months in the space station. Meanwhile all Gems need to colonize most of the Solar System is a rocket.
>also humans can adapt to any job while gems find extremely hard to learn other jobs.
Show me a human who can build a rocket and a robot out of junk in a barn. Do you think Pearl was programed with the knowledge? Do you even watch the show? Gems are perfectly capable of learning new skills. And even the Gems that don't learn any new skills are born with magic powers far beyond humans.

What can humans do that Gems can't do better?

>That's why the gem Empire is dying
[citation needed]
>they cant expand their population
Obviously they can because there are new Gems being born.
>adapt to new situations.
They've advanced technologically since the rebellion, Lapis said as much when she visited Homeworld. Also during the war they experimented with fusion to create The Cluster. And when Peridot talked about it she mentioned "Geo-weapons" which implies The Cluster isn't the only thing of it's kind. Peridot mentions "Era 1 light kites" while Era 2 ships use FTL gravity engines. When some Gems came out smaller than they should Homeworld created Limb Enhancers so they could still be just as useful. So I don't really know where you got the idea they can't adapt.

The resources thing is more unable to give Gems certain powers, like how Peridot can’t shapeshift. But HW’s technology easily covers that On the average, we’re probably weaker than Neanderthals, but most would agree we’re better off not as them with their level of technology

Star vs > SU

Attached: tumblr_nm2vowsu411rk9ekdo1_r1_1280.jpg (1280x750, 111K)

>Not as much as you seem to thing considering a single valley could create hundreds.
An area that could produce millions of humans though the years, over 100 billion humans lived in this planet and way more is coming, gems only produced very small groups with a ridiculously massive ammount of resources.
>There are billions of planets in the Milky Way and billions of galaxies in the universe. The Gems aren't hurting for resources.
For some reason only very specific planets can be used to produce resources, the Gem empyre is facing a resources crisis
>Humans need a massive amount of resources and specialized environments to even survive. Everything from diet to atmosphere to temperature to gravity to microorganisms need to be taken into account for humans to be able to survive. That's why colonizing other planets is such a pipe dream and why astronauts can only spend a few months in the space station. Meanwhile all Gems need to colonize most of the Solar System is a rocket.
Yet they can't increase their population to expand their territory.
>Show me a human who can build a rocket and a robot out of junk in a barn. Do you think Pearl was programed with the knowledge? Do you even watch the show? Gems are perfectly capable of learning new skills. And even the Gems that don't learn any new skills are born with magic powers far beyond humans. What can humans do that Gems can't do better?
Pearl had acess to gem technology and had thousands of years to study, Peridot and Lapis even after researching human culture for months can't even understand the concept of art well, the Crystal gems consistently face problems by changing their lifestyle after THOUSANDS of years, even Rose herself said that the concept of change still felt alien to her, did YOU even watched the show?

I never said that Gems can't adapt or change their life and job, they can but it take a ridiculous ammount of time while humans do it naturally.

They are creating cheaper and cheaper gems now, Peridot said that new gems can't shapeshift,they are facing a resource crisis.

They never explained what resource they are lacking. Could it be Pink Diamond's gem juice?

Which to me it always was a bunch of balognie that deserved to be mocked, the universe is filled with resources and I doubt a single planet could had changed stuff.

Well, let’s see. What’s the difference between Era 1 and 2

Not really Ludo’s family was put in the royal family line by the MHC as monster they could puppeter, they’re extremely stupid and have really bad decisions, they also shown that not all monster are innocent Toffe is part of faction that seek monster superiority over mewmans instead of peace, Eclipsa and Globgor truly tried to bring peace between mewmans and monster, but the MHC ruined everything

They didn't show any of Toffe beliefs at all. If they don't bring him back or give him a backstory then we can assume he was nothing but a power hungry maniac who lied to literally everyone to gain personal power.

tpbp. Wander over Yonder did it a hundred times better than either of these shows did.

>big muscled lesbian with a helmet for a weapon.
Jasper user, remember her name and forget Shitpiss Lazuli

Attached: 1553529537725.png (2880x2173, 1.06M)

Well, SU is not really about any of those things.
It's all about immediate familial relations at its core.
But Star Vs just bungled every chance for clarity in its message, making it seem cobbled together and unfocused.

Peridot and Pearl never really broke out of their original purpose. They were still compelled to do the job they were made for, but found new outlets for it. Pearl continued wanting to serve her master, but focused it on doing things like housework and taking care of Steven. Peridot similarly just found new outlets for her kindergarten maintenance instincts. She was still building shit, creating life, and evaluating the quality of lifeforms. She was just doing it with art, gardening, and television.

Meanwhile, Lapis just mopes around being depressed because she isn't doing anything terraform-related.

Its interedting trat the gems are such literal crystal robots that they can't emotionally change almost at all

just gonna drop this here, just in case

Attached: Marconnie (3).png (1280x1371, 408K)

>Like everything else in life, pumping is just a primitive form of bending

Star has the more realistic, often uncomfortable racism that comes with the changing of generations and cultural divides. There isn't really a winner and that's a good thing to show kids. Steven on the other hand I still think is just brainwashing others into his point of view subconsciously. The pink gem seems to control and pinkify those who wrong think.

Work on your grammar. Your entire post was hard to read.

That's an interesting point of view, that could legit be an inniciator but any long lasting effects are all thanks to Steven's talknojutsu

gems in general never grow or change,their basically completely incapable of change.

I'm saying that they should keep picking from the same 2 or 3 social issues. It's always sexism, racism, and general bullying.
What happened to things like underage drinking, prescription drug abuse, teen pregnancy, exploitation of tragedies by the media.
It's almost like the industry isn't liberal enough to bite the bullet and show the rest of what it sees as the "ugly" parts of society

You know what that's a wonderful point, that reminds the braceface had the balls to do that and more back in the early 00s so kudos to them. I guess they also are more able to do so given the type of show it was so there's that.

peridot didn't break out, i'll give you that
but even WD aknowledged that pearl was deffective in her obsession
lapis mopes around because of trauma with jasper and feeling betrayed by everyone, she shows no interest in terraforming, hell we barely even see her play with water out of fun
you could argue amethyst is somewhat rash as a programmed soldier would, but i would counter with her being just retarded
meanwhile sapphire and ruby left their programming aside to form garnet constantly

>Steven Universe
>It's basically a bunch of women being catty bitches in an all-female company, gets solved by Steven crying and talking about his fee fees, literally everything doesn't even matter because the show is built on the facade of being a mature, complex show without having any of the depth to it
I haven't watched the other one but it probably did it better than SU tries to fake it

>themes of racism, fascism, genocide and race wars
>except none of the actual arguments in favor or against those things are presented
>and the day is saved without conflict beyond some words

At this point I'd rather hand my kid a fucking Tolstoy novel.

Attached: 1552810962621.png (720x1280, 269K)

>ctrl+f secret saturdays
>no results
I get the feeling nobody on here ever mentions this one because they either never actually watched it or because they only care about their gay lala faggot fanshippings that shows like those two constantly promote, and said fanshipping is the only reason why OP is even starting a discussion on this.

Attached: 1zLUjeq.jpg (605x759, 67K)

>Diamonds
>denouncing another race for being emotional
Yeah I stopped right there, not gonna bother with the rest of your redditspacing.

This
>want to present heavy themes to children
>dont study those themes at all
>dont read any relevant literature or study relevant history
>do more damage than intended because you cant adequate portray any of these themes

Attached: he-gets-it.jpg (393x342, 93K)

Since this is partially an SU thread, I will give Sucrose ONE prop to her because unlike She-everyone-is-gay-Ra, she actually made her own characters and did NOT grab onto some old animated piece of media and tainted it with her nonbinary transgender pansexual hands

I mean yes but that's not that special like at all.

I'm honestly not sure what angle Star Vs is going for because the message is so mixed up. Things under Elipsa seem to be going to shit and it looks like Moon is going to create another kingdom, which looks like it will be successful. You'd almost be forgiven for thinking that Nefcy is dogwhistling to the ethno-nationalists. Is Nefcy a low key white nationalist?

How the fuck is secret saturdays a good example? It wasn't about racism or fascism. It was more nature vs mankind. And the show only worked because the main character had god-like power over nature.

Could've fooled me.

>It's basically a bunch of women being catty bitches in an all-female company, gets solved by Steven crying and talking about his fee fees, literally everything doesn't even matter because the show is built on the facade of being a mature, complex show without having any of the depth to it
Sounds like you watched Totally Spies and pretended it was Steven Universe.

They also have a lot more time to spare

With all these reboots, man. I'd consider that one pro thing out of the triple digit number on the list of all things wrong with SU.

Gem racism is based on their innate traits so completely logical. Rubies are retarded, Pearls are not people,and Jaspers are violent.

>Steven Unicerse and STVFE tried to depict racism, fascism, genocide and race wars. Who did it better? And in what ways?
SVTFOE did it worse, which is actually a good thing because SJW propaganda is garbage to begin with.

The Gempire is fine the diamonds are just using fake news to control the masses.

Just like a meat ape cant stop reproducing.

SU > Star shipping shit

Attached: 1546386268876.png (1280x1707, 1.08M)