Why do people like this Mary Sue? She actively ruined this show for me

Watch the episode "the chase"

>Wants to kill the moon so he'll be immortalized in history
>After he dies he's never mentioned again, and the recap episode shows he's been completely erased from the narrative of what happened at the north pole
I liked this detail.

>How is she a Mary Sue?
Because of all the plotbending and convenient writing in her takeover of Ba Sing Se.

>she arrives right after the man that controls the city has been imprisoned thanks to the avatar's meddling
>she avoids spending months not being allowed to meet the Earth King and getting spied on by Joo Dees
>Aang and Sokka give her full clearance to meet the Earth King even though he wasn't allowed to know shit about war plan until a few hours earlier
>Aang and Sokka conveniently leave right before they could blow her cover even though they would normally love to meet the Kyoshi Warriors
>The earth king immediately spills the beans to Azula about the secret invasion plans and about how the former head of the secret police had just tried to take control of the city from him
>Long Feng decides to trust a foreign leader from a nation that is at war with his and let her handle the coup that would put him in charge instead of just doing it himself or delegating it to one of the Dai Li loyal to him
>Long Feng doesn't imprison Azula from the start and keep her as hostage to use as leverage against the Fire Nation
>The Dai Li decide that they are no longer loyal to the guy whom they had pledged undying loyalty over their own king and decide to betray their nation and follow a teenage enemy just because "she is inspiring"

Actress Aang had a doll of Zhao when they were retelling the North Pole part.

is that before or after he stands idly by while some rando steals his girlfriend from him?

Mental issues. Nobody ever loved me, including my sisters. I honestly believe the only way a family member / woman could love me if they are crazy like Azula and dependent on me because of their issues. I know her relationship with Zuko is unhealthy but I don't believe it myself.

Also since I don't know any form of love I confuse sexual attraction with it.

Meritocracy is desirable in western culture which is why a protagonist being a Mary Sue is typically considered a bad thing. We don't like people who have everything handed to them or are naturally amazing. It's actually not terrible story telling when they're the bad guys, especially in Azula's case where her narcissistic upbringing becomes the driving factor behind her decent into madness

Until it finally clicks in Azula's mind her brother is her one true hope for happiness, and "things happen".

without her the series would have been really really boring.

They want her to rape them

>mary sue
How? She has very clear character flaws, like the fact that she's an absolute monster.

What does that phrase even mean anymore?

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>hunts the flying fur ball down with its fur in a train.
>out fooled when they used tactic on her
Note how it's basically a hunt and she just uses hunter tactics. Like she people as prey and nothing else.

>What does that phrase even mean anymore?
What it's always meant. Just because user is too dumb to use it properly doesn't mean the phrase has lost meaning.

Can villains be mary sues? Some villains like the joker have a ridiculous plot armors and nobody accuses them of being mary sues.

I wouldn't mind being in Zuko's shoes, lol.

She’s not the Mary Sue, she’s the dragon of the main antagonist. She’s supposed to be super competent and aggressive to raise the threat level

A lot of people don't know what Mary Sue means. Most people are mediocre and skill-less so when a character is good at one or two things they equate that with perfection despite the character repeatedly failing. It's like when people read Name of the Wind for the first time and think that Kvothe is a Mary Sue when the whole story is about him constantly fucking up at literally every thing and every chance he gets.

OP here. I haven't watched this show since it was airing back when I was like 16 and I dropped entirely it after blood bending because I thought that was too stupid and over the top. Metalbending was also dumb.

I waited like over a year between S2 and S3 and the show lost its focus and went off the rails, but I haven't binged or actually sat down and watched the show in over a decade.

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She’s hot

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after

>Metalbending was also dumb.
So OP really is a faggot.

>Mary Sue
I do not think that that term means what you think it means.

That's just shitty writing. Edgar Rice Burroughs would have been embarrassed to use that many convenient coincidences.

i did. and?

What are you babbling about? "Meritocracy" is horseshit.

i'd argue that they can, but it can lead to great writing
making the villain a mary sue means the heroes have to go up against someone who's basically perfect

>What it's always meant.
And what do you believe it means?

I'd argue Katara is the bigger Mary Sue
>goes from knowing basically nothing about waterbending to being a master in a few months
>learns bloodbending in literally no time, probably never practices with it, but can still use it masterfully next time she needs it
>is able to beat Azula without even taking a single hit
>can heal people, even though it's supposed to be a rare skill that no one trains her in til they get to the north pole

>a thread where no one knows what a Mary Sue is
lol

>someone appreciates my husbando
Zhao was great. I found him really interestinh because he demonstrated what kind of short sighted, low cunning, ambitious bag of dicks excelled in the Fire Nation military. He was also a great juxtaposition to Zuko.

Still love Azula. I think they have a lot in common. They were both obsessed with being perfect and it resulted in their downfall.
>Azula flips out when the pressure of being the perfect Fire Lord is on
>Zhao would literally rather die than accept Zuko's help and be on par with the banished Prince
Truly a good boy.

Also has anyone seen "Merry Christmas Mr. Lawrence"? Basically it's a movie about a Japanese internment camp. TLDR: White boy protagonist tries to explain to his Japanese guard why commiting sudoku is no good saying a true warrior wants to keep fighting. The guard is very confused why anyone would want to live after dishonneraber defeat. It's a raugh riot. Sort of reminds me of Zhao and Azula.

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It really affected me when Zhao was more willing to be dragged to his death than accept help from Zuko. I rarely see this fact brought up so I don't believe it affected other people the same way to affected me. Zhao got overshadowed by Zuko and, by the time Azula started to hunt Aang, Zhao was completely forgotten.

She's not a sociopath. Her symptoms are a closer fit to someone with Borderline Personality Disorder. She has a strong fear of abandonment, a need to control and manipulate others and she often displays black-and-white thinking about relationships ("if you aren't my friend, you're my enemy," etc.). Anakin Skywalker and Glenn Close's character from "Fatal Attraction" are other examples of antagonists who had symptoms of BPD.

>is able to beat Azula without even taking a single hit
To be fair, that applies to nearly all the fights involving female characters in ATLA. There used to be an old "unwritten" rule in action series that girls could never be physically harmed.

>whomst is Ty Lee

>character does thing through their own abilities
>"Mary Sue!"
>character does thing through luck
>"Mary Sue!"
>character does thing through combination of skill and luck
>"Mary Sue!"

The real Mary Sue was Toph.

>tfw no Zhao doll

It means "a female character is doing something".

Metalbending was definitely OP. Bloodbending though?
>perfectly logical extension of waterbending
>has internal limitations that prevents overuse
>stupid
Get fucked.

>Aang learns three elements in the same amount of time
>that's cool though
Katara was confirmed to work her ass off, too, unlike Aang who Pakku literally dismisses as just talented. What part of "because you're so naturally gifted" did you not get?

Agreed. It made me sad too. RIP, Moon slayer, you magnificent fucking retard.
youtube.com/watch?v=oZ8-ETHE9AI

press f for respects

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>Mary Sue
Nah, i don't think so.
I wonder how there are people who think that Kazuma Kiryu is Mary Sue when we know that he has a lot of tragedy and sorrow.
youtube.com/watch?v=ACk6VLs2oMg

This nigga know what up,

>girls can never be physically harmed
Except for that time Suki got her ass kicked, Azula got her ass kicked, when Katara got her ass kicked, when Kuruk's gf got BTFO, when Sokka and Katara's mom got roasted and toasted, when Yue's opacity levels got fucked, when Ursa got banned from the Fire Nation server, etc.
It's a kid's show. Mai should have stabbed Aang and Sokka to death, but she didn't. Aang and Zuko survived getting struck by lightning. June got paralyzed. Sokka, an untrained retard, floored Suki, a master, after one demonstration. Zuko survived his agni kai with a middle ahed man famous for the explosivity and unrestrained power of his bending, etc. You didn't complain there.

I like determined characters.

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I could tell you.

But then I'd get banned.

Literally or metaphorically?

Literally.

Merry Christmas Mr Lawrence is good. Has some nice homoerotic undertones too.

Those are the best undertones. Or overtones, if you're a top.

I know that some fans of the series really push the idea that the Fire Nation =/ Japan, but there definitely are some strong overlaps with China's invasion of Tibet and WW2-era Japan IMO.

That Water Tribe comic was dope

This doesn't sound like a Mary Sue so much as a episode-by-episode case of Plot Device
See pic related, you can have some moments of bullshit but still lose everything in the end

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Literally.

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>The philosophy of prioritizing skill, effort, and achievement, over things like sexuality, race, gender, age, or wealth.
>horseshit

Yeah, I doubt you actually believe that user. Merit based achievement is a common standard used to evaluate a person's perceived ethical character or worth. This traditional value being ignored is why so many people get pissed about Mary Sues in modern stories. Sure, meritocracy in practice has plenty of criticism because of our current hurdles (cost of education, intellectual elitism, fake merit, diversity bonus points) but there are few other systems that can give the most number of people in society an opportunity for social mobility.

If you aren't trolling can you tell me more about why you think meritocracy is horseshit?

>mfw anons only like Azula for autistic fetish fuel or for because they misunderstand the character
>I am the only one who likes her for who she is.

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>I don't think her tragic bs mommy didn't love me enough story redeems her either.
Most people here would agree with you. A big reason why Firecest got so big is because it adds another dimension to her character. It gives her amthe redeeming quality of being able to care for and cherish something or someone while also keeping in line with her social maladaptedness, and it provides any future interacions with Zuko a bit of color instead of just having her be the “all according to keikaku” evil Villian.
>I really liked Zhao.
Zhao was crazy, slightly hammy and fun. Maybe not endgame material, but a great 1 season villain.

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>Firecest adds to her character because blah blah blah
Oh fucking please give me a break. They want jerk off material. Ty Lee is obviously someone Azula cares about - she is the only person Azula sincerely apologizes to.

Firecest is interesting, but not for any of the reasons you said or for the reasons the majority of people talk about it. That is, Firecest being a thing adds another level to the circular nature of intergenerational abuse that permeates the Fire Nation Royal family.

You're spot on about my boy Zhao, though, except for
>slightly hammy
>moonslayer
>slightly
>hammy
>slightly

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>ywn never see the ultimate battle between Zuko vs. Azula for real.
For god's sake, even Kazuma Kiryu vs Akira Nishikiyama in the original Yakuza & the remaster version called Yakuza Kiwami has more emotion & sadness.
Fuck writers putting Katara as a plot device.

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Forgot the background song.
youtube.com/watch?v=_Hl6KNY10ZA

>Oh fucking please give me a break. They want jerk off material. Ty Lee is obviously someone Azula cares about - she is the only person Azula sincerely apologizes to.
>He actually ships Tyzula.
>While deriding Firecest as being based in nothing but wank material
No please, go on, do tell me how Tyzula is totally a valid ship and how Azula totaly isn’t just using crumbs of kindness to mainpulate people.

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She's a character you love to hate.
Also masochistic waifufags.

And... a fucking reimagination.
Using the same final scene (at 60 fps), there is additional dialogue:
>"This can not go on like that. Azula, you're sick and you need to be defeat."
>"I know, but I will never surrender to my ideals and principles, brother. It's here when family ties end."
>"So be it."
>"I will take your life and finally get revenge on our father when the day comes. Now come here, Zuzu! It's time to grow up IN DEATH"

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I don't ship Ty Zula.

My point was that it's absurd to say Firecest is popular because people want Azula's character to have the depth caring for someone else necessitates when
>people literally post images of Azula raping Zuko
>people post pornographic / lewd images of her pregnant
>etc.
It's obvious this ship is somewhere between 5-8 inches in depth.

What makes it more absurd is saying that the drive comes from a lack of Azula's sympathy for other people when it's clear Azula did care more for Ty Lee than she ever did for Zuko. Azula tried to kill Zuko, she apologised to Ty Lee and had a meltdown when she and Mai walked out. That isn't me being a shipper, that's me citing the show we're discussing.

It's also absurd because incest is, by definition, fucked up and abusive. There's nothing kind or sweet or humane or redemptive about molesting your brother.

If people want to jerk off to Firecest, go ahead, Azula's hot. My point of contention was you passing off an obvious slash ship as this deep and poignant thing when that isn't canon and had zero bearing on it's popularity.

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This. Azula was shit.

>>My point was that it's absurd to say Firecest is popular because people want Azula's character to have the depth caring for someone else necessitates when
>>people literally post images of Azula raping Zuko
>>people post pornographic / lewd images of her pregnant
>>etc.
>All of Yea Forums is one person
>All instances of pictures that contradict my view don’t exist
Starting extremely weak here, but let’s continue

>What makes it more absurd is saying that the drive comes from a lack of Azula's sympathy for other people when it's clear Azula did care more for Ty Lee than she ever did for Zuko.
The fact that you think Azula cared for anybody shows how little you actually understand her character
> Azula tried to kill Zuko, she apologised to Ty Lee and had a meltdown when she and Mai walked out.
Because she saw Zuko as a threat and Ty Lee and Mai as useful dependable allies. Using them as points of stabilty didn’t mean she was any more capable of actually caring about them, especially since she extended similar hidden threats to make them join her.
>that's me citing the show we're discussing.
You are very poor at citation

>It's also absurd because incest is, by definition, fucked up and abusive.
Actually it quite literally isn’t. And this is one of the few times where literally actually means something because there is not a single dictionary in any part of the world that requires incest to be abusive or non-consensual
>There's nothing kind or sweet or humane or redemptive about molesting your brother.
Again, your entire argument hinges on the idea that it must be rape, which is based on what cherrypicking what people most on Mongolian doodle websites.

>My point of contention was ...
Your point of contention is seeing something that contradicted your shallow interpretation. You can posture as arguing for the truth all you want, but all you have done is throw a shit fit becuase something disagrees with your poorly constructed head canon.

I'm not saying people don't do this, but this is like bitching that Thanos or any other villain is a Mary Sue. Bad guys have to take on all the good guys (most of the cast), usually with a smaller number of allied characters on their side, and win at least sometimes to keep the plot going and to avoid villain decay. This usually means they're either super strong, there's some plot device shit for them to win, or both.
Most of the time, though villains are fucked up in some way or they wouldn't be evil. The closest I see to bad guys being Mary Sues is when either there's an argument that they're in the right sometimes, like Light Yagami (who had at least as many unlikely ridiculous contrivances as Azula), or when it's just that ridiculous that they'd keep getting away with shit, like the Joker somestimes becomes (normal guy can take on the whole damn multiverse, still not dead). Even then, Mary Sue isn't really the right term. More like Overpowered.
Azula's never presented as being right and loses it and falls apart by the end. If she lost every time like Team Rocket, though, there would be no suspense. People would complain that she's a worthless character. She's really only good at a very narrow range of things, most of them outside of firebending (like being a lying backstabbing bitch) horrible, and gets to be that way only by being literally fucking crazy and throwing everything else away for them.

U sad

>"all of Yea Forums is one person"
So basically "Just because I said 'most people' () doesn't mean you can cite things most people do now that it proves me wrong!"

>Azula didn't care for anyone
>having a meltdown where you cry over a lack of mommy's love
>panicking when Daddy doesn't want you
>becoming depressed when your friends leave
The whole reason she hated Zuko was because he was "inferior" yet still was loved more than her. She wouldn't have been mad if she didn'f crave love. Sounds like you missed the point.

>because Azula is a bad person who threatens people means she doesn't care
So I guess abusers don't love anyone? Please. Azula threatens them, but she also apologises to Ty Lee and admits to being jealous of her in the Beach. Watch the show before posting.

>you are poor at citation
[Citation needed]

>it must be rape
Even incest that is "consensual" is sick, idiot. I never said it had to be rape, but yeah, the fact that many users post rape definitely pokes a whole in your "most people like it because it gives Azula depth" argument.

>head canon
>the guy who jerks off to incest and can't even cite a single moment in the show is accusing me of head canon

Astounding, your first post was wrong, but you seemed halfway intelligent. I'm thoroughly disappointed.

This. Azula's framing is what matters here. And how can someone say that she's a Mary Sue when everyone abandons her? Sues are beloved by everyone.

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Agreed. She's overrated and a heartless bitch.

Why didn't Aang ever take her firebending away? She was just as bad as her father, if not more.

plot convenience isn't the same as a mary sue you dipshit, at least learn what the term means if you're going to just throw it around like a special needs child. A mary sue is generally someone who:
>is almost always the protagonist and the hero
>is effortlessly good at everything and never fails or makes mistakes
>is never portrayed as wrong, bad, or stupid
>never faces any sort of struggle or adversity
>is loved by every likable character and hated/envied by every unlikable character
>always gets what they want with little to no trouble
>is almost entirely depended on by the rest of the cast to solve every problem

Now it's not always going to be 1:1 and there are always exceptions to every rule, but the whole point of a Mary Sue and the reason the term even exists is to define a character that is perceived by the writer as flawless in every way to try and basically coax the audience to like them. The logic of a bad writer is that if the character has no flaws or negative traits, the audience has no reason not to love them. Given that Azula is a villain in a kids show, wants to kill all the heroes, is portrayed as a heartless sociopath, and becomes insane at the end of the series, it's pretty fucking safe to assume that audiences weren't expected to see her as a flawless perfect character. If you want to criticize the character or the writing of the show, feel free, but at least use terms you actually understand you complete fucking simpleton. It's low-functioning shit-spewing fuckstains like you that give false validation to oversensitive faggots who try to defend actual Mary Sues in media with the defense that "Mary Sue" is just a buzzword. Do this world a favor and cancel your life so it can finally be free of the burden you've cursed it with.

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