How does Yea Forums feel about Kingdom Come and Mark Waid in general?

How does Yea Forums feel about Kingdom Come and Mark Waid in general?

Attached: Kingdom_Come_2.jpg (452x700, 103K)

Mark Waid is an awful writer who had a few great comics, Kingdom Come being one of them.

Attached: what Kingdom Come is actually about.png (1584x1054, 174K)

Kingdom come was a good commentary on the directions comics were heading at the time but got a bit too preachy. Mark waid is more or less hit and miss.

If I knew absolutely nothing about Mark Waid and you gave me with Superman: Birthright, Kingdom Come, and Irredeemable I would assume Mark Waid is an edgelord who hated Superman. I've never seen someone with so much love of a character get him so fucking wrong

Because Mark Waid had a problem with 90s anti-heroes and the direction the comic industry was going, he decided to make a comic about Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman becoming fascists, and Green Lantern, Captain Marvel, and Flash becoming set dressing who barely get to talk, if at all.

Then he got Alex Ross to slap his Norman Rockwell knockoff paintings into something vaguely resembling a comic book. This caused retarded nerds who had only ever read modern cape comics to suck its dick.

Mark Waid's larger body of work ranges from "fine" to "crap," and he has never written a truly great comic in his life.

I thought it was a good story without looking too much into it. I liked the art and it also had good milf versions of heroes

Attached: Shazamageddonedit.jpg (1054x1600, 1.44M)

His Daredevil run is vastly over rated and having him undeniably releasing Matt's Identity to the whole world was poorly executed in one of the absolutely worst arcs in the whole of the DD series, and I am including the goofy 60s-70s shit.

Personally, I really liked the comic, especially enjoyed the way Captain Marvel was used and the provided commentary on the comic book industry, all in all it was a good read. Mark Waid as a writer is mostly good at what he does, however, he does have some pretty bad comics and runs holding down his credibility

>Captain Marvel was used
as a mindless drone who barely speaks used to smack Superman around for a bit?

I get that Mark Waid was having a problem with the direction that comics were going in the nineties where all the superheroes became these people that didn't really make sense in context with the world created in the 30s-60s because the industry was being run by people that basically ran films. So we just had characters popping up willy-nilly that didn't really make sense with all these big guns and pouches who were fighting just to fight. As much as I don't think Superman would ever retire, it makes sense why the old guard left after all the villains died. They actually had motivation for their characters to fight this evil and with the evil gone there was nothing left to fight. Meanwhile you have these nineties characters who were just fighting just a fight so when there's no villains they started fighting each other. Waid very much was venting his frustration out on the nineties style of comics and I think some of that was valid.
Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman become fascists to the point where they are literally locking super villains up in a place literally called the Gulag and no one is batting an eye to that. Not even Batman because it turns out he was undercover the whole time and just sweeps the Legion of Doom out in like three pages despite all of this build up. Meanwhile Green Lantern and Flash as well as pretty much everyone else became set pieces that barely got to do anything in the story let alone talk. To me it felt like the message of the story became more important than the actual story itself as well as the characters. We get little information on why the world is like this now other than "the new heroes fucking sucked and the old were much better". I also don't buy Superman's motivation for quitting nor that him quitting would have caused this kind of world to exist. So Waid basically forced to this world into creation just to have his commentary and the story really suffered for that.

Then there's the massive elephant in the room, a character more mishandled than Superman, Captain Marvel. The one character that even more than Superman just doesn't fit with the nineties Xtreme edge and nihilism. Waid basically lobotomize the one character that is supposed to be this embodiment of not only childhood wonderment, but pure superheroism. Then Shazam is just like "well the other cosmic beings won't let me help so your on your own kid" so Billy stands around for three issues before straight up becoming the villain and the dues ex machina in the same scene. I was just absolutely baffled by Waid's choices with this series. I get that it's and Elseworlds so these aren't the characters I know, but the Elseworlds I've read have really good world building that justify the changes made to the characters. This just felt like Waid sat down with a message he wanted to convey and that was what was pushing the story forward rather than allowing it to come organically.

Never read it
His Flash run was great

Waid's idea for the ending was "Superman snaps Captain Marvel out of it, they both stop the bomb and the metahuman fight." Ross disagreed, because his plan for the ending was, "everyone dies except for Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman." The printed comic was a compromise that neither were happy with.

because as we all know, great comics are born out of compromises none of the creators are happy with

There shouldn't have ever been a Captain Marvel to snap out of, that whole fucking plot was retarded.

First comic I ever read. Great end of days to wrap up everything but followed only by its montage of Alex Ross endings.

Should be animated with Alex Ross art style (painting/coloring/penciling) etc...

Embodied best in the switching of moralities of Batman and Wonder Woman.

The paranoid and violent crusader shifted from Batman to the once gentle and diplomatic Wonder Woman.

except Batman is still paranoid and violent, only now he's overtly fascist instead of just having an undercurrent.

I've seen user dog the book for it's characterizations but nothing rang so inconsistent with me that it ruptured my enjoyment. It's paced really well, it built some indelible moments. Ross rendered some memorable depictions. His work was superlative.

It shows that dc heroes are a bunch of fascist assholes

Not much of an argument

Waid at his prime wasn't awful. Like others in his age and older (save for Neal Adams) he should retire and figure out some way to get Marvel, DC, Boom, etc. to pay some retirement credits and just enjoy their life instead of trying to write something about teenagers like Champions or Archie.

Always found Kingdom Come to be overrated boring shit that's only worthwhile for the artwork.
Think it would honestly be better with no words and just the art, the story and character terms suck.

He is right tho

Attached: Armageddon_has_arrived.jpg (276x161, 20K)

>He is right tho

There's that talking in the third person again

Kingdom Come was a slow-acting poison to the DCU. I fucking hate this comic.

It like usual, the goodness a comicbook artist can achieve depends on the team
Mark Waid and Alex Ross worked well together.
Mark Waid tried a sequel of Kingdom Come and it kinda fell flat.
Ross did his superpowers and the end drippled out.

He was literally under control. It seems like you cant read. He also sacrificed himself.

He's under the control of worms that are a nod to mr mind. I'm an actual captain marvel fan, you're just some retard online. I'm telling you you're wrong.

You're like superman fans who think frank miller shit on superman when in fact you simply cannot read

Is pretty good, I'm personally not a fan of this art style but I aknowledge how much work the artist put on it.

DC should have gone with Moore's Twilight of the Superheroes and not this pussified version.

Also, Alex Ross is not a comic book artist. Only plebs like him.

>Alex Ross is not a comic book artist. Only plebs like him
3.50 has been deposited in your contrarian account.

>Wonder Woman

Who ended up being just a kryptonian breeding machine like Frank Miller’s version.

Kingdom Come is a good Superman book but the other JL characters Waid depicts are absolute garbage

Meh writer, shit person.

Waid's best work was Flash, and that was GREAT no matter who drew it.

>"Photo" realism
>Good comic book art

Comic books are about telling a story through images. Superhero ones are about dynamic poses and exaggerated anatomy, not stiff guys posing in realistic-looking clothing. People fell for Ross' portrait style because we have been conditioned to associate that style with fine art, but it is completely irrelevant to the comic book medium. Kirby's characters were not too realistic, but his narrative style is amazing. It's like saying a waitress is good at her job because she has great tits. She might be nice to look at, but that does not mean she will be good at her job. Ross' books are nice to look at, but not that great.