In what way were they friends and not two guys who got along ok?

It happens off panel. The beggining of Ultron is a hint at that.

Steve is Tony's friend because Tony has problems connecting with people and that doesn't allow many people to get close to him. Plus Steve is the walking embodiment of one of his dad's greatest achievements and he has some deep baggage with that.

Tony is not Steve's friend though, he's just a guy he works with. Bucky, BW, Falcon are his friends.

Cap strikes me as too much of a good guy to not consider all of the Avengers his friends by this point

TBF there's a lot of stuff immediately following after Civil War that is pretty damn gay even if Steve was suppose to be "dead" at the time. But modern day writers have certainly tuned down on the intensity and frequency of it.

how many people have you literally saved the world with?

I'd say you have to be more than just 'get along okay' with them for that to be a thing.

This was very well put. Thank you, user.

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>Because they said
Bullshit.

Steve barely found Tony tolerable on the carrier in the first cross-over/team-up movie and only made the STRATEGIC decision to tell him to 'put on the suit' because it was NECESSARY at the time to defend ALL of them. While Tony took actions to be a team player in the actual NY invasion and, afterwards, we did get the team up moment - and also got it in AoU, there's nothing to indicates that they were more than, at best, friendly work acquaintances.

IF they had developed the relationship more. as say they have with Barry and Oliver, or Barry and Kara in the DCW, and presumably they did on Netflix with the Defender team (no clue, personally, never watched any of it), or as they did in the animated Avengers, you might have a point. As it stands, no.

>If anything
This whole third paragraph nails their relationship from Tony's perspective, which is as much other's characterizations as it is Whedon's.

This does nothing to hint at deeper anything. Two opposing athletes could have the same conversation about the Super Bowl or World Cup.

I'm not that user, but I'm a Mike that is happy James Gunn will get to finish his trilogy.

MCU Stark is better friends with MCU Banner. And honestly, I never got why Iron Man was supposed to be friends with Cap in the 616 either. They have no common ground that is necessary if someone is to become your Bestie. I always felt as if writers were injecting their fujoshit headcanons into it, because all their "brotherly" moments read like softcore gayporn. Cap has a best friend in Bucky, a new Bestie in Falcon, plus his relationship with Fury and the whole old guard. Banner works better with Richards, Banner, Pym and the rest of the scientists. His relationship with Cap was always a hinderance and just a poor attempt to copy the Superman/Batman dynamic.

Seriously, it's damn near criminal that we have no scenes of Douglas Pym and RDJ Stark with Banner caught in the middle. That would've been interesting and relationships worth exploring. As it stands, in the MCU, they're "friends", but not more than that. Banner is Stark's BFF outside of Rhodes. Hell, I'd say he's closer with Widow than with Cap. His relationship with Thor is probably non-existent too, and Post-AoU the only connection with Hawkeye would be sending his kids expensive presents during their birthdays. Which is a shame really, since as Hawkeye debuted in Iron Man's stories, and they had that love triangle with Widow, I always wanted to see him being the "hot, young, loose canon" to Stark's more restrained "cop near retirement". But Barton just went to Cap. And then Widow went to Cap too because Brubaker self-inserted as Bucky. It's honestly a real shame how Iron Man's whole world has been getting picked apart piece by piece and never getting anything added.

1 and 2 are things co-workers do, it doesn't make them anything OTHER than co-workers.

Your third point is a decision not a measure of what is the basis of a friendship. As is your Loki aside. The entire thing about the Stark's is, again, no different than how one co-worker might act with another co-worker when both are out for the same promotion, or work on the same project.

The Best Defender comment really felt tacked on in Infinity War, and again, is no sign of friendship.

I would agree with you that there is respect and I would agree with you that they are not close friends. I do not believe you've proven that they were even friendly co-workers, they were polite to one another, courteous, respectful and considerate but Tony wasn't going to help Steve look for Bucky even prior to the Stark's death reveal, as one example, which Wilson was willing to do, as well as taking in Natasha just on Steve's say so.

Any second now he'll be spewing how unfair this all is to Roseanne.

>1 and 2 are things co-workers do, it doesn't make them anything OTHER than co-workers.
Not all coworkers make any effort to connect with each other outside of work, ones that are friends with each other do. Not sure how their positive words about each other outside each other's presence aren't proof either, because sticking up for another person you have a relationship with is another sign of friendship. The whole Bucky thing can easily be explained by Steve's hesitance to involve Stark in something that may lead back to his parents' death. People can sometimes have different friends groups that aren't directly involved with each other, which is what was going on with Cap and his other Avengers, vs Cap and Sam, and sometimes that can lead to intersection later, like when Sam joined the Avengers. I don't think you understand that there are different levels of closeness and friendship, and different kinds. Bucky is Steve's oldest, and possibly closest friend. Rhodey is Tony's best friend, or Pepper is. It doesn't mean they didn't form a friendship with each other as well.

Also, try to tell me these two people don't care about each other on a personal level beyond professional courtesy, and see each other as friends.
youtube.com/watch?v=k_3O5q4cEV4

>scenes women will never understand

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>It's honestly a real shame how Iron Man's whole world has been getting picked apart piece by piece and never getting anything added.
Don't forget that with Carol joining the MCU so late we won't ever get anything like their friendship in 616 and his ties to Scott are also non-existent in the MCU when in the comics he was basically Casey's adopted uncle. MCU Tony's been shafted pretty damn hard when it comes to his relationships outside of Pepper, Rhodey, and Happy.

All true. But what gets me more is how they're also picking apart his world in the comics. Even before Fury dissappeared, he had little to do with Stark, when in the olden years they'd team-up pretty often. Not to mention how SHIELD came to be before all the retcons. Widow never shows up in his books anymore. Hawkeye became Hawkeye simply to stick it to him, but you'd never know there is ANY relationship between the two. At best you get a cameo by Banner, and in recent years a scene of him crying like a baby next to Carl Manvers. Most people probably don't even know Wendell used to work for Stark Industries. In general his world's getting shorter and shorter. Meanwhile Cap has absorbed EVERYTHING Espionage/War related. Pym has absorbed all the AI Stuff, but because he has no book, they're nowhere to be found. I guess Slott did bring back Jocasta, but it's a small step.

>They have no common ground that is necessary if someone is to become your Bestie.
>because all their "brotherly" moments read like softcore gayporn

Imagine being this full of onions.

>muh teevee memes
What's next user? "Master & Commander is totes muh favorite moobie because womyn can't understand it, and I'm totes a brotherly Chad"? Take your head out of your ass and realize that most of their interactions around the 90s or so started to be very homoerotic. There are ways to write male bonding and friendship without go all faggotry. MCU's Cap and Bucky friendship is well written. Something like Ragnar and Floki over at Vikings is good too. But all the interactions between IM/CA were always one step from one of them getting fucked in the ass., or completely professional and without any hint of anything deeper.

As for my other point, it's true. In order for someone to become your Best Bud, you need similarities or a shared history. Cap and Stark didn't know each other from childhood. They don't have similar views. They're not in the same profession. They have no shared hobbies or worlds. They only meet up to punch shit. There was 0 reason to push them as a "BroMance" back in the day, other than wanting their own World's Finest. Stark works better with people like Banner, Richards, and Pym. He had better interactions with Fury than with Rogers. He's a billionaire CEO supergenius. There's no way for him to become besties with a soldier from the 40s whose life is spent on missions and sometimes drawing.

I'm thoroughly convinced Marvel doesn't actually care the character at this point. They just want to put their big name writers on their (currently) biggest character instead of getting someone who actually understands the mythos. I'm sure it's the same for team books like X-Men and Avengers too.

Thor and Tony are supposed to be very good friends who hang out alot, but that's literally just director/supplementary stuff. Also supposed to be the reason why Thor starts trying to be more jokey/casual.

Whedon should have just been responsible for a short streaming series about the Avengers hanging out and doing small scale avenging instead of AoU, it'd have made all the moping about hurting eachother feel more realistic.

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That's respect not friendship.
You can respect somebody without being friends.

>it would come across "too gay" for a Hollywood movie,
Bullshit A huge chunk of MCU fans are tumblr yaoi shippers, and the writers as well as the actors know that. That Loki series is going to have a shit ton of fanservice.

In the only way that matters, Bad Writing

this doesn't hint at anything at all

What they’re doing right now is trying to make it not seem completely overtly gay. Which is why Cap has to awkwardly pause to make out with Sharon for a bit in Civil War. There’s some 616 stuff that straight up just sounds romantic., especially with how super awkwardly intense just Tony giving Cap fucking CPR got in Red Zone.

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>actors: Steve grew a depression beard because he doesn’t have Tony around anymore, they’re both very hurt and pining after what happened etc
>directors etc: they complete each other, best pals, so emotional
>movies: we work together sometimes but never hang out

I've never really gotten the vibe that Steve and Tony are anything more than good work friends in the comics or movies. They get along and respect each other but it's very easy for them to bicker and fight because they're very different people and their respective qualities make one another insecure. I don't have a problem with the way the movies have handled their relationship, like I don't feel like they want me to think they're friendly on a level that they aren't.

they seem like guys who get along not friends

they didn't really say it, sort of implied? its a problem with these movies. show don't tell. they don't seem like they are friends because we, the audience never got to see that.

>guys who get along
>not friends
Wrong on both counts, actually. In many cases they don't get along, and yet they still have a deep concern and for and bond with the other.

Not to jump to the defense, but it's much easier to build relationships over several seasons of a TV show than in a few blockbuster movies.

There was no issues with doing it for Sam and Steve and Banner and Thor. Whedon is just a retard and the Russos have to work with the pieces they have.

Damn you for making me defend Whedon

Not saying Whedon isn't bad, I quite prefer the Russos, however, Winter Soldier and Ragnarok were both "smaller" movies than Avengers. As someone mentioned, if they put Steve in Iron Man 3 or something, they could have done a lot (and probably made a better movie too, Tony and Steve with Shane Black dialogue could have been amazing)

The Russo's plans for Cap3 had CACW not made it through was to do Serpent Society or such with Tony being a supporting character, so it was definitely a concept in their minds.

Not much time to develop a friendly relationship between the two, but with the party scene seems to me quite clear that they are slowly becoming something more than just co-workers.

In true, Civil War, through the voice of Cap, explains the situation quite well. Tony considers the Avengers his friends and a family way more than Steve, who is too determined, and "focused" for letting himself go.

Tony tries to protect the group, the Avngers, because he cares about them, but his ego, ends up contributing to their division.

They not friends? Probably not and this is fine Their relationship is more interesting like this.

>"Don't touch my wood"

Honestly, their bro moments were arguably more prominent in both cartoons than they even were in the comics.

youtube.com/watch?v=y1Lj7cYkNok

I absolutely lost it when Cap ripped that log in half with his hands. Laughed for 4 minutes straight and pissed off my girlfriend because she had to pause the movie and wait for me to stop. She told me it 'wasn't even funny'

>They not friends? Probably not and this is fine Their relationship is more interesting like this.
I agree but it still feels like a wasted chance to see how RDJ and Evans would play off each other if the MCU allowed their characters that on-screen development to be friends. You can see they have some great chemistry when they're together in things like press interviews.

I think Evans nailed it when he said they were family (in a sense the Avengers being their family) in the respect that you don't get along with certain family members and aren't exactly friends with them but you still have to deal with them and make nice and if they aren't huge assholes you can also have good moments with them.

Also RDJ said Tony WANTS to be close to Steve and in his interpretation of the character he was jealous of Steve and Falcon being tight. There's also the fact that Steve's loyalty was with Bucky and in Bucky's best interest and Tony got annoyed that Steve would not sign the Accords and trust him. He also went to say that Tony was feeling petty all throughout Civil War until the revelation that Winter Soldier killed his parents then it was just pure anger.

Tony and Steve aren't besties in the comics either, they don't understand each other sometimes but there's a lot of respect between them and Tony helped Steve in a very crucial point of his life and Steve taught Tony how to fight and they spent a lot of time with each other being Avengers so a bond is formed.

I like people in my family as well as co-workers and respect them, even spend some of my free time with them by choice. We don't have much in common and sometimes are different ages but we still close, especially with family. I think Tony and Steve just like each other in the comics and respect each other since they have helped each other in the past. But when it comes to BFFs it's Rhodey and Sam.

Also their relationship has been built up since the 60's and I doubt Stan Lee and all the writers back then had Fujo intentions, that's just you seeing weird shit you want to see.

AA is pretty great if you watch it just for the Steve and Tony interactions and nothing else but I'll always prefer 616.
>Tony telling Steve that there's a place out there for him that he can call home, he just needs to go out and search for it
>Decades later, Steve's "You gave me a purpose. You gave me a home." about Tony during Civil War

That sort of ties in to the idea that it's easier to do this kind of thing in a cartoon/TV series than in a series of movies with usually different characters and focuses in them.