Can anyone provide a rational argument why this wasn't the right decision in-universe...

>Slott at no point ever wrote anything about mephisto starting to put the twist in his deal is laughable

Wait, really?

Look mate I don't know what you think but this isn't a bait thread, I'm going to buy Spider-Verse on Blu-Ray and watch it with my mom but if the topic of Spider-man and marriage comes up then I'll have to explain why OMD is a bad thing. And I don't know if I can. She had to go to the hospital recently due to having an erratic heart, and I'm starting to wonder whether I should get married so that I can have a marriage to sell for her life in the coming years.
Keep in mind that not everyone is a Lutheran protestant or whatever. As an Orthodox I can sell anything I want to the devil as long as I say I'm sorry I'll be fine.

>My mom is 60 this year. She's not going to be asking me to let her go any time soon, I'd wager.
You're not Peter Parker, and your mother isn't Aunt May.

Just because your relatives were selfish boomers who thought they were immortal doesn't mean that everyone is.

What hole? Do people normally have elders that are fine with dying? Pretty sure most would milk the last bit of life out of their offspring before going on. As I said the fact Aunt May is this magical special holy mother that is willing to sacrifice herself is even more reason not to let her die.
Don't try to play this like a damn fight and provide something actually convincing.

Well obviously not but it seems disingenuous to say that wanting to live is selfish. It seems more selfish to want to cling to a marriage at the expense of someone's life.

>Don't try to play this like a damn fight and provide something actually convincing.
You first.

Please go play Marvel's Spider-Man for PS4 and get your answer there

What do you even mean? How is it not a truism that a mother's life is worth more than a marriage?

I don't own a PS4.

>Mephisto stopped Aunt May from dying
>Ever
>Aunt May is immortal but still ages
>Peter has to go back to Mephisto to get her freed from this torture of life and let her go.

If my eighty year-old, geriatric mother who is on her deathbed tells me to just let her go and live my life to the fullest, I'll respect her wishes, not make a bargain with Randall Flagg to bring her back for the self-satisfaction of having done so.

May didn't end up a geriatric though she seems to be in very good health as a result of the deal. It was literally no monkey's paw, he gave up a marriage and his mother got her life.
You're selfish if you don't provide that for your mother when the time comes, especially if she's the kind who won't try to parasite your life away.

Is everything ok with your mom user?
One more day was a bad story with a bad premise and a terrible ending, peter going to the devil rather than let his 80 year old mother pass on, for a second time mind you, just doesn't work for the character and was a major step backwards for the character. It only happened because an editor had a hate boner for love at the time thats it. Letting go hurts but sometimes its for the best, let her go home to be with her husband and trust her great nephew will carry on her legacy proudly. not let him wallow in a past that constantly haunts him

Aunt May was still a full on geriatric who was like 90 years old at OMD. She has had plenty of time to come to terms with her own mortality especially considering that the world she lived in had almost been very publicly destroyed on several occasions.

The citizens of the Marvel universe, especially the ones who live around Manhattan are probably well aware that their life could end at a moments notice because some twat in spandex opened a portal to an all consuming hell dimension by accident. May herself has been put in multiple situations where she was seconds from death. The woman is not a coward who would fear it.

It was a bad decision because Peter didn't make it for the benefit of anyone else but himself. He sold out the lives of his wife and unborn child and the future they've could've had together to ensure his elderly aunt, who did not and could provide consent or voice her own opinion to Peter, remained alive, denying her the chance to see her husband again. Instead of confronting and coming to terms with the inevitable prospect of his mother figure dying and continuing to forge a better life for himself and his family like she would've wanted him to do, he made the choice to instead sell it all out for the short-term prospect of not having to deal with a event that he'll still have to deal with sooner or later. Its a selfish, immoral decision that obliterates the wife, child, and by extension, entire universe he was accustomed to in order to live out his high school days again with his aunt.

Of course, you won't care or consider this because this is a bait thread and I took it like the dumb fish I am.

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Yes I know all the details of Joe Quesada and why it's a bad story. What I can't put into articulation is why it's the wrong decision or how I could convince anyone that it's the wrong decision. Mother's lives are worth more than marriage is a pretty significant axiom, in a way it supercedes all talk of devils and respecting wishes.
And as for if things are ok with my mom it seems to be fine for now but I'm afraid of the future.

Why would OMD come up? You have no idea how to make an intresting fake story.

A mother has served her purpose in procreating and seeing her child to adulthood to carry on the genetic line.

The marriage would have produced a child which would continue the genetic line.

>You're selfish if you don't provide that for your mother when the time comes
My mum would call me a grade-A retard if I did do that and she found out, but whatever makes you feel better about yourself, user.

Parents die, its neither a good nor bad thing it just is. Just love them while they're hear and live well when they're gone. its the best we can do. I understand peters, and your, desperation to save his mother but amazing 400 was one of my favorite issues and that was over 10 before OMD happened so I was fine with her finally dying

What? How the fuck is OMD going to come up unless -you- bring it up? You are so awful making believable narratives, do you work at Marvel?

It was just a really lazy way for Joe Quesada to reset the status quo to what he wanted it to be. Spider-Man had been going through a lot of interesting changes at this point. There had been a strong focus on his married life and relationship with MJ, his secret identity had been revealed to the public and his Aunt was going to die. There was a very different new chapter waiting for future Spider-Man stories. Something fresh and new. Instead we get a ridiculous and out of character deal with the devil just to press the reset button and regress Peter back to a young bachelor. For decades we had see Peter grow and change but until this point we had never really seen him regress so much. It was incredibly disappointing and frankly just bad writing.

Why place such a large emphasis on motive? A son is always obligated to provide for his parents, regardless of convenience or self-esteem or to get them to be proud of him. Those are all just trivial in the bigger picture. You shouldn't wait for consent to save your mother's life, it's a duty regardless.
The future isn't all that important anyway.

>the life of dried up ovaries is worth more than breeding stock
You're the reason white genocide is a thing

Because I'll bring it up to highlight why Spider-verse did it better than the comics, and then I'll have to explain what happened in the comics.

>If God doesn't save your mother but the Devil does it seems obvious that the Devil is the good guy.

Oh, I get it. OP was Mephisto all along.

You sound pretty fucked in the head, m8.

Peter is friend's with the world's smartest scientists, magic users, and gods. But no, you are right, making a literal deal with the devil is the clear smart move here.

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God you just want (You)s and it’s sad

Firstly, AUNT May isn't Peter's mother, stop referring to her as such.
Secondly, once again, he didn't make the deal to May's benefit, he made it for his own. He couldn't come to terms with the inevitable mortality that all humans must deal with, so instead he made a deal with the devil, dooming the life of two people to save one person who may not have wanted it. You absolutely should ask consent in regards to keeping a dying person alive. Keeping someone with a terminal illness when they explicitly wish to die is cruel, selfish and immoral. Peter did not, and could not, so he was in no place to make that decision, end of story.

Maybe so but all I've gotten from this thread is "the devil is bad", "wait for consent before you save someone" and "just don't bring it up while watching it you Marvel shill."
I guess I just won't bring it up because nothing you guys have put forward would convince me that it was the wrong thing to do, and definitely won't convince mom. She'll just start asking me why I haven't married anyone yet in the exact case of this scenario.

Why would you craft a fake story that makes you retarded user? I don’t think your mom would like you using her as an excuse to shitpost on Yea Forums

It's not fake.

You sound like bitter old man whose children left him and constantly gripes about young people being disrespectful.

It’s completely fake
Here’s that (You)

>I guess I just won't bring it up because nothing you guys have put forward would convince me that it was the wrong thing to do, and definitely won't convince mom.
Great.

You can delete the thread now.

>dr doom
>reed richards
>dr strange
>none of them can heal a bullet wound

Uhhhhh I'll take 'what is bullshit' for 500, Alex.

Like this faggot would stop sucking cocks for the attention

Peter had a pep talk with God few stories before that and he still did the damn pact. When you ignores the Almighty, you're obnoxiously a damn ass.

You're giving me mixed messages, are you trying to taunt me into bringing it up during the viewing? Because then the least you could do is explain to me how to explain it without putting on the expectation that my mom SHOULD want to die so that I can live my pointless life or whatever.

If you're not well versed enough in the comic's themes and intents to where you'd have to ask Yea Forums about it, why on earth do you think you'd be a good enough authority of it to explain it to someone else completely unprovoked?

>A son is always obligated to provide for his parents, regardless of convenience or self-esteem or to get them to be proud of him
???
>always
Only a sith... ect. ect.

Fuck, you just reminded me of how Slott completely and utterly pissed that plot thread away.

The fact that I'm not an authority is why I asked for a convincing argument in the first place. Obviously not everyone sees responsibility and personal growth as more important than material things such as being alive, which is why it's important to be able to present it in a convincing manner.

Most parents would be fine with dying when they are really old and wouldn't want their kids to give up on happiness just to prolong their life. If your Mom doesn't feel that way then she is incredibly selfish and not a good parent.

>Obviously not everyone sees responsibility and personal growth as more important than material things such as being alive
...Why are you watching Spider-Man, then?

>A mother's life is inherently worth more than marriage.
Is a mother's life inherently worth more than a daughter's?

He literally checked in with all his friends though
>Stark: Nah go fuck yourself lol
>Strange: Thats just how it is lol
>Jarvis: Ehhh I can loan you some money

I love Spider-man and its core themes but I'm not convinced anyone with a more materialistic and less pampered background would understand.
That's my mother you're talking about faggot!

>Friends with Fantastic 4
>Friends with X-Men
>Friends with Avengers
>Friends with Dr. Strange
Yeah, making a deal with the devil is absolutely the right decision in-universe instead of doing ANYTHING ELSE.

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I can't remember any specific mention of the deal outside of its "in universe" explanation, when they tried to pawn off the world forgetting his identity onto the Illuminati and even then I think that was an attempted retcon of the deal.

What pisses me off is slott pissed away the deal with loki who could've been very helpful in this situation, but slotts gotta slott I suppose

anyway I'm gonna try to story time 400 to show OP that its alright to let go when the time is right bear with me y'all its my first time. Be gentle

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The daughter's life belongs 100% to the mother of the child. And IIRC Mary Jane also consented to the deal.

There was One Moment in Time, but that was written by Quesada partly because nobody else wanted to touch it, and all it really was is an explanation of how exactly the deal voided the marriage.

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>The daughter's life belongs 100% to the mother of the child.
Legally but not morally
>And IIRC Mary Jane also consented to the deal.
Yes well Mary Jane is know for her looks not her brains or being a hero

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What do you mean not morally? Who else would it belong to, the father?

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That's literally adressed in the comic. They're all unable to help or turn him down

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Including the X-Men, who had a member who was capable of regrowing a person's heart from scratch, and the Fantastic Four, who literally went to heaven once to save Ben.

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Which is bad writing.

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>Fantastic 4
Would not help him due to him being a fugitive
>X-Men
Couldn't help because it'd violate their agreement with Stark to not interfere
Again, LITERALLY spelled out in the comic. Why argue about something you clearly haven't read?

weird question but shouldn't both kaine and bens memories have been erased? They did a solidly indiscriminate spell to erase the connection from anyones memories no matter how tied those memories were to events in there lives, as shown by Felica. Or is it just a clone thing?

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Shush you two no-one cares about pointless details like that, everyone just wants to read this storytime.

>Characters act useless when the writers want them to be useless

Get fucked

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Isn't the current Ben technically a clone of the original? Does that mean the spell would even work on him?

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I mean, yeah. Is this the first comic you ever read

I try to push clone conspiracy out of my head, so many mistake that could've been fixed and all we get is ned leeds back for like a second

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When the daughter is the main character of a one of the worst Marvel ongoings? YES!

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The hell, was she always 70?

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At the time, the X-Men had a guy on the roster who could heal literally anything.

Living in poverty ages you faster, she's always bee feisty though

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ITT: OP saves thousands of dollars working through some personal issues rather than seeing a therapist

Because at that point in history Elixir of the X-Men, that one team that Spider-Man's good buddy Wolverine is an important part of, was capable of regrowing another person's heart without the need to make a deal with the devil.

Also if you take into account Meph-boy's track record, it was downright foolish to assume he wouldn't try to screw them over.

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According to the recent Scarlet Spider series, it's Ben's soul in a new body. Whether that also applied to the others or Ben's a special snowflake is beyond me.

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How can Ben have a soul if he is a clone?

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Obviously Jackal cloned Peter's soul as well.

>There's no way to present OMD as a bad decision rationally, if it's all just "but she wanted to die" or "but the devil".
I can see why a dumb autistic nigger would think that.

Jackal seems more powerful than God then. Not bad for an old pervert.

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What is a God to a non-believer?

Do clones not have souls in the Marvel universe?

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Thank fuck that bitch is finally dead. She is literally Spider-mans worst enemy and having to protect his identity from her is the reason he didn't reveal Osborn as the Goblin which is why Gwen is dead!

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not now buddy

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That was a beautiful story thanks but I don't think it can convince anyone because it's still a bit of a romantic-mythical concept that an old woman would be okay with dying. Besides he didn't have the option to save her here.
FUCK OFF YOU FUCKING ASSHOLE AUNT MAY IS THE BEST YOU GWENFUCKERS ARE CANCER!

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Its true it is a different circumstance but this is a natural step in anyones life

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>if it's all just "but she wanted to die" or "but the devil".
Ah, but if the Devil exists, then there's no reason to assume that the rest of the Judeo-Christian cosmology doesn't, especially since Mephisto mentions God in all but name. Therefore we must also assume a contract with the Devil would jeopardize the "standings" of all associated with it, meaning Pete, MJ and May. And also Mephisto himself, but it's a drop in the ocean for him at this point.
Ipso facto, you're not just trading a marriage for a life, you're trading a chance for eternal bliss in Heaven for three people for a couple more years of life on this sinful Earth for one person and highly probable eternal torment for all three.
And also there's no certainty Mephisto wouldn't just conjure up a fucking bus to hit May the very next day, because he's done THAT shit before.

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But how to discern that given a supernatural ability to avoid it, it must be allowed?
That the natural order takes precedence over the material need to live? It's not like we live naturally anyway, because nature dictates we must die around 50 years old.

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Again, it may be Judeo Christian but it doesn't have to be Lutheran. A Russian Orthodox just say he's sorry and it's fine. Kind of like Catholicism except you don't even have to mean it.

Nature dictates what it dictates, with science we can keep people alive almost indefinitely, respirators to keep breathing, monitors to intervene when the heart stops beating, filters for our kidneys. But is that life? Is the hear after so terrifying that we must lose what makes us us in order to stave it off for another moment? Love whose here, remember who isn't, and walk straight into the unknown with your head held high, because it comes regardless

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Now if it isn't obvious the part of the story relevant to the thread ended about 3 pages ago but this next part is a story by stan lee I haven't read in almost thirty years, I think it's his lst direct contribution to Amazing spider-man ( I know he did a few comics in the 00's but those weren't in canon I think)

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>But is that life? Is the hear after so terrifying that we must lose what makes us us in order to stave it off for another moment?
I mean it kind of is. No-one's really convinced God or Heaven exists, especially with rules like . The devil shows up and gives you an out, while all God ever did for you was allow communism.
It's nice that Peter Parker and Spider-man inspires a diametrically opposite mindset for many people ITT but it still seems hopelessly romantic and even juvenile. In the real world mothers will want to avoid death at a price that's literally only marriage.

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But another user brought up if the devil exist to the point of bartering isn't it reasonable to assume god does? and is getting a few more years worth an eternity of torture?

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>And also there's no certainty Mephisto wouldn't just conjure up a fucking bus to hit May the very next day, because he's done THAT shit before.

I remember when I made a deal with Mephisto. My dad had cancer and I'd be damned before I let him die on me. Motherfucker kills him anyways and makes me his bitch.

Got a cool bike out of it at least.

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and thats the end folks, not to painful but a staunch reminder that even the sweetest moments aren't safe from stupid retcons

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>And the Penance Stare doesn't even fucking work right!

>A mother's life is inherently worth more than marriage.
That's a pretty 3 dimensional way to look at it. He had to choose between killing his aunt or killing his children, all his grandchildren, all his great grandchildren, etc.
>His chidren weren't born yet.
Irrelevant. Time is only linear to you because that's how you perceive it, and Marvel cannon confirms that it it's non-linear, a fact Peter himself is well aware of.
>We can't know for sure he would even have children, or at least he didn't know at the time
But we do know for sure that Aunt May is going to die someday. Likely in the next decade or so. And she's well past menopause, so it's not possible for her to have any more children of her own. Even if the odds that Peter and MJ might have children someday are 100 to 1 that's still wagering on a possibility while May's death is a certainty. If you have the choice between buying a $5 lotto ticket or having that $5 vanish into thin air, you choose the fucking lotto ticket.

>Mother
Aunt May is perpetually shown as being in her fucking late 80s or 90s and also very often shown being near death.

She's not some 55 year old who potentially has a lot of life left to live.

Then the real question is how much older was uncle ben to his brother? Richard looked like he was in his 40's at the latest but that would so what family has two children that far apart?

The twist was meant to be that the weird ghost kid was his and now the kid doesn't get to exist! Oh no!
But the story was so fucking shit that it was impossible to be invested enough to care.

Uncle Ben and Aunt May have never made a single lick of sense.
The only way to make sense of their age is to think it was a nickname.

As much as I hate Homecoming at least Aunt May seems like she could actually be his aunt.

You don't think the fact that they had a miscarriage(or a fake one anyway since that kid was supposedly alive with norman after that) 5(?) years before wouldn't make the idea of losing another one hurt even more?

they'd make more sense if there were more aunts and uncles, I have 6 uncles and the oldes was 70 while the youngest was 49 so an age disparity like that isn't unheard of

Wait, when was this? Aunt May died before? I'm so confused. How the FUCK did they justify the resurrection? You can pull all kinds of not-really-dead on gods and super-humans and such, but an old lady who dies of old age in her bed surrounded by her loved ones?

What the fuck happened?

Long story short, this whole issue was a fake out where the woman was just an actress and aunt may was alive because of norman or miles, I try not to think about it

Consider, however, that Peter was originally 15 in 1962, meaning that he must've been conceived in 1946, or very early '47.
He's a Baby Boomer, and the reason why they're called that is because after the Great Blueballing that was WWII, everybody went home and FUCKED LIKE CRAZY. But what's important to note is that people had to hold back with the reproduction until after the war, after they'd know what kinda world they'd be bringing their children into.
In other words, Peter's parents would've most likely been older than usual when he was born - even by the standards of those days. And since Ben Parker was Richard Parker's older brother, he - and therefore May - would've been even older than that. So it kinda makes sense, and if it didn't, people 50 years ago would've bitched about it more.

>Peter goes to Tony and freakin' Reed Richards
>They can't help her with super science
>Goes to local magic man,dr. Strange
>nope,can't help with magic either
The fuck was this about?

Okay so long story short, the Aunt May who died during the clone saga was actually an actress set up by Norman Osborn while he kept the real Aunt May hidden.

Dr Strange was 100% right to reject Peter and advise him to let things happen as they will

May was dead for a while in the comics leading into the Clone saga. She revealed on her deathbed that at some point she realized Peter was Spider-Man but told him how proud she was of him and she and Peter made peace with each other.

I don't know if this lasted through the entire Clone Saga but this was all part of the stupid rug yanker that Norman Osborne was still alive this whole time and Ben Reilly/the Clone saga/everything was all a ploy to fuck with Peter. Also he stole Peter's first kid or something and Marvel wishes you'd forget about that.

marvel wants everyone to forget the late 90's and the late 00's for spider-man. The robot parents thing though, that was Harry still right?

I just wanna say I almost put lil brudder here to really get the water works going but I realized it would be cheating

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Forcing May to continue living when she just wants to be with Ben is objectively evil. No part of the bargain was anything but stupid, selfish, and evil.

How... how does that make any fucking sense? Why would be go through the trouble of:
-Finding an actress skilled enough to fool a man who that woman raised as a boy. A boy who has legit super-senses.
-Altering her with super-surgery (I assume?) to not only make her look identical on a surface level, but to her dentist and physicians and so forth.
-Brainwash her into being willing to do this even up to her death (???) How is she so dedicated to this con?
-He must have had to implant memories in her or something too, or else she would have to REALLY push the senile angle to sell it.
-All this to... what? Make Peter sad his aunt died? Couldn't he just... kill the real one? What was the master plan here?

It reminds me off the asspull retcon where it turned out Peter's parents were robots sent to infiltrate Peter Parker's household to discover Spider-Man's secret identity. Yes, that's right, a villain made robot versions of Peter Parker's parents to find out Spider-Man's secret identity. And the robots were able to fool Peter and his Spider-Sense the whole time. ABSURD how hard editorial comes down when they want to return to some status-quo.

It’s kinda weird how Strange gives usually sound advice to others but his own decisions are very questionable

tbf I don't think they were there to find the identity they were just there to fuck with him. Thanks goblin, yeah the late 90's rushed there asses off to erase everything. The weirdest part is a lot of this shit happened after heros reborn so you'd think the editors would've just thought ahead enough to retcon everything through that rather than waste everyone's time with those terrible Norman arcs

Yes that was Harry's one last fuck you to Peter.

Your mind is jusy as fucked up as Quesada if you can't see how making a deal with devil, damning both you and your wive's souls and also taking away your temporal marriage on top of that against the wishes of your own aunt who is fully willing to accept her final reward and tried to raise you to be a good moral person. You're hopelessly lost. You just want to hold on to your own mother figure or get her back at any cost, Mother Complex.

I honestly don't know which resurrection I was more disappointed in Norman or Harry. Norman at least got books like thunderbolts and dark avengers but Harry didn't deal with the complete character rewrite though I don't remember why or how he came back

GOD HIMSELF CAME DOWN AND TOLD HIM TO FUCKING LET GO

Yeah, he had the technology to remap someone's DNA onto another person and turn an existing person into a clone of someone else, and the best way he could think of to use this technology was this nonsensical prank.

As for why the actress was supposedly so dedicated to the role, we never have any explanation. Did she think she was being filmed? Was it just pure art to her somehow? He claims she didn't know she would die (as if that somehow makes this more plausible) and yet Aunt May was clearly aware she was dying.

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Marriage can turn a woman into a new mother.
Also, move out of your parents' basement.

>Spidey asks Reed Richards for help, but can't get it
>Then Spidey asks Doctor Doom for help, who doesn't do it just to prove he can do something RICHARDS can't.

The entire thing was very very stupid.

I'm not sure which is worse, this or OMD. The drive these people have to restore the status quo, narrative be damned, is fucking astounding.

Wait a minute he literally had Loki in his debt who he used to bring someone back to life ten years later? Do you think when he got home after that he freaked out over what he should've done?

>Yeah, he had the technology to remap someone's DNA onto another person and turn an existing person into a clone of someone else, and the best way he could think of to use this technology was this nonsensical prank.
Seriously though, if this tech exists you'd think someone would want to use it to make themselves into Thor or something.

Man, retcons are so stupid. It would be better if cape stories were self-contained.

They are, usually. That’s how the retcons happen

>May didn't end up a geriatric though she seems to be in very good health as a result of the deal.
>very good health
You haven't been keeping up? She's got cancer again. She's had it for a while and has been hiding it from Peter.

No, I mean like, straight up just say "ok this writer's run is self-contained, the next writer's run will be self-contained, no need to bridge the two in any way".

Creates stagnation, especially when a character is as old as any of the big Marvel names. Makes character development seem worthless

I still don't know how marriage can stop a baby from being born.

Do writers really think that people only fuck when they are marry? This deal got so many holes to it.

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could you leave those two outta this, one of them prevents further character development for peter and the other trivializes one of the best moments of character development in not just peters growth but in comics history (while also introducing the most over used trope in comic book history sure)

She wasn't pregnant but the child was a representation of the connection they were giving up

I'd say OMD is worse, but Norman's return and everything that got undone as a result of it comes pretty damn close.

>clone
Is he the clone that Jackal made of him, the one he thought was dead? I dropped Spiderman around that time, so I'm not sure if it's even the same continuity.

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No.

Also, it is pretty much not a child. Just a big fat metaphor.

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Peter has always done retarded stuff with no real thought.

cbr.com/the-one-more-day-interview-with-joe-quesada-the-fans/

>The question sort of answers itself when you quoted my saying that "almost" everything happened. The funny thing about the pregnancy issue is that Marvel at the time scrambled to derail the story as quickly as possible. I don't know exactly how that story got as far as it did, but they ultimately realized it was a huge mistake. So, taking that into consideration, I personally feel that that's one that didn't happen, chiefly because Peter and MJ now not having been married, would have taken proper precaution to avoid getting in the family way in the first place.

Even though he's talking about their child from the 90s, this should tell you what you need to know about Quesada's view on marriage and pregnancy.

Yeah he's the clone from the small arc in the 70's he wasn't dead when he was thrown in the smoke stack but took the hint and went on a crazy road trip for however many years that was

Yeah that's what I said. seriously though are you a Miles fan? Cause I never understood this pairing being pushed so hard, is it a part of the desperation of making miles the "true" spider-man so they had to pair him with gwen to make it legit? Cause I imagine pairing a knock off of a character from an alternate universe with another direct knock off of a character from an alternate universe would just remind people how terrible comics can be

Imagine being so sad and deranged you actually believe this.

Spider-Man is still at the end of the day non serious and over the top Superhero Cape Fantasy that borders on unrealistic.

when I say fuck you say Quesada!

FUCK

I heard about that. So How did Slutt fuck this up.

I like the ulitmate and into spiderverse relationship for different reasons.

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During Lokis brief stint as sorcerer supreme slott wrote a one off issue of him tricking spider-man into using the debt to bring a rando back to life, which begs the question of why he didn't use that favor when aunt may needed it

It along with triple shipping killed the sales for the series. It still sold really well but it pretty much halved the sales of each issue. Stan Lee supported it and even did it for his newspaper strip but due to backlash undid it immediately and they remained married. It was so bad that One Moment in Time was done to slightly change what happened and was poorly received. Still sold well but was followed by another drop in sales. There was also the rumors that Quesada did it because of his divorce as well as Mephisto posing as Peter and MJ's daughter looked like Quesada's and during OMIT Peter was chubby and looked like Quesada. The retcon also ruined Peter's relationship with many characters and reverted him from being a respectable Avenger to being that annoying guy that nobody knew anything about. Even though Peter and Felicia became fuck buddies it made their relationship superficial as he had to keep the mask on while they had sex. Sins Past and OMD also created a squabble between JMS and Wacker due to editorial meddling he didn't like.

Things got so bad after a while that Slott had to "kill" Peter off and replace him with Doc Ock just to piss people off and make sales. And it worked. And that's how Slott cemented his place as the ASM writer for a decade when he should've been booted off the book.

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I'll give you two.
1.The One above All not only tells Peter to let go like Aunt May does, but that his decision will cause something terrible to happen in the future. Peter would never risk other lives for himself when written in character. That terrible thing hasn't happened yet but it seems like Marvel is gearing up for something Mephisto related.
2. Their future child no longer exists due to that choice, and Peter is taunted with that. Aunt May would not be down with sacrificing her granddaughter for herself.
Also I've often talked with older fans and Grandparents about OMD when they're asking about what's going on in Spiderman lately so they can buy for their kids since they just seen the movie, and every time I answer when they ask where's MJ, they get disgusted with it.

But do you not see how it belittle both of the characters completely? I hate miles already so the pairing just adds fuel to the fire, but if you actually like him why would you want the fact that he's simply a pale imitation of peter reflect in every aspect of his life?

Well, she is not gwen stacy. He doesn't have anything in common beside the name and close realtionship with Peter parker.

I usually treat her as a different character, same thing with ulitmate version.

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>Shes not gwen stacy except for the fact that she is gwen stacy

That's literally what you just said if you read her terrible comics the beginning credit will say created by Stan Lee and Steve Ditko. She just serves as a reminder that Miles (and her AU honestly) have added nothing to the franchise as a whole and only serve to trivialize the whole book line including wonderful moments like we just shared in the comic posted. (even though they did a fine time trivializing this moment all on there own) Miles 8 years in still has no original villains, no original love interest and no good stories, you got one good movie that he is the least interesting aspect of

I really want May to learn about this deal and tell Peter something like “You know I love you, I always have, and I always will, but you don’t need me anymore, you haven’t for a long time dear. It’s time to let me go, Ben has been waiting for long enough now, you have a responsibility to face this, it’ll be hard, but you have the power to keep moving forward. I love you Peter.” Or have her gently scold him for prolonging her life, sure she’s thankful for the extra years, but she was ready. It’s true that a lot of us fear death, myself and my aunt included, but there are a brave few who know that the end is inevitable and courageously face it with as much grace as they can, May strikes me as someone who would meet her fate with her head held high. It’s one of the reasons why I loved her in the PS4 game’s ending

QUESADA

And retconning everything doesn't?

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Close realtionship =//= romantic

Through we never know she like Peter in romantic way. She just feels bad for him for dying.

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>baby Itsy Bitsy
Holy fuck, this is so adorable

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Retconning is shit, but your alternative isn't great either
Honestly the best thing to do would just be to roll with the stories and eventually retire the characters. No retcons, no de-aging, no forced returns

she literally is there to do the same thing Miles is doing, invalidate peter and destroy his legacy for progress. and please leave clone conspiracy out of this slott is a piece of shit we know.

Gently scolding him would fucking hurt Peter and the reader more than being angry, but it'll be perfect.

>its not canon unless I like the writer.

You are not arguing anymore, you just screeching.

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Fucked up to think that Peter went from an only child, to having two clone "brothers", to having also Itsy Bitsy and goddamn Doc Ock in his genetic... "family"

I know, and that’s why I want it so much, when MJ and Peter agreed to the deal Peter convinced himself its for May, but really it’s for himself, he’s already lost so much and losing her was something that he couldn’t imagine, and in that moment of weakness he acted on his own selfish needs to keep May alive. It was out of love, sure, but it was more for himself than May, and having May tell him that that was wrong would just stick us all right in the heart. I also can’t really see May getting angry, if anything she would be fully understanding, but unable to agree with the choice.

>666
Yep, hi Mephisto

What were you trying to prove with the page though? That spider-gwen is gwen but from another universe?

The ever growing Web of the Spider-Family, Matrix might also be included having been built by Richard and Mary Parker

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Yeah, I can only remember May being legit angry only once, when Vulture apologized for killing the new man in her life and she told him that she hoped his death was long and full of suffering.(He had cancer at the time) Then she went apologized to him in prison and talked to him about everything.

Do people just forget that it was MJ that pushed Peter to do it? Even in the original OMD it was framed as Peter and MJ getting one over on Mephisto, and it's pretty obvious the decade of Peter and MJ being separated wasn't what JMS intended.

She was a firebrand back in the day, she started a protest group called the "Grey Panthers" and even got arrested for assaulting an officer, peter has a bunch of feisty women in his life

This entire thread is a stupid mess because it assumes people have equal values for their mother's life vs their own happiness.
And yes, it's not about Peter's marriage, it's about his happiness.

Honestly imo trying to sustain a life beyond it's natural course, like he did, is wrong and dumb. What is he going to do? Make a deal with Mephisto every time she gets close to dying? It's unsustainable, he gave up his future to delay the inevitable.

Just further proof that people are just speaking out of their asses and personal experiences.

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>Peter not doing anything, anything at all, to keep from having both his parents die because of him
It's like you don't even kind of understand Peter Parker.

Don't listen to the spazzes.
You have the right of it. It's a terrible fucking story, even without the fanfiction that Yea Forums likes to slide into it, but Peter's behavior is consistent with his character.

That she is barely a gwen, she almost is entirely diffrent character .

It's like Ben reily and Peter situation, or powergirl and super girl situation.

I had to google what you mean. This thing looks nice, depedable, and might be... Peter's legit brother? As technical child of Mary and Richard?

Forgot me pic. This what you mean?

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No I didn’t forget, that’s why I added MJ’s name up there why I said they both agreed to the deal, it was MJ that pushed, but it was Peter who eventually caved, but you are correct, both MJ and Peter has a hand in that deal
I remember this, kind of ironic now considering May’s condition, but this is an amazing quality that May has, she never wants things to end on a sour note

He, as a hero, should know better that he can't save everyone.
He, as a husband, should know that he was steal from MJ her own happiness with him, even though she gave her consent if he truly loved her she wouldn't even have to make that choice.
He, as a son, should know that May would want nothing more than seeing him happy with his own family
He, as a smart person, should recognize the inevitability of May's fate and the futility of the deal.

And what came of it? He and MJ are still not married again and May might have cancer.

Yep, that’s exactly what I mean, while I wasn’t too found of the LmD/Oldies arc of SM/DP, I really liked that it showed some of the history of The Parkers, and while Matrix starts out as a generic villain, he eventually makes a face turn, I’d like to think that that’s the goodness of the Parkers that he adopted

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If there was one thing Bendis did right, it was having Aunt May not be afraid of roasting Wolverine.

>that he was steal from MJ her own happiness with him
That he was stealing from MJ her own happiness with him*

Which alternate gwen is an entirely different character?

Why is it so wrong that I just want him to have his own love interest? Hell I realized that they never attempted to pair him with Mayday which could've been interesting but then I realized that Miles isn't there to work with peter and build both characters but whole sale replace him

You’re the fucking spazz if you actually agree that making a deal with the literal devil was a rational in-character decision

oh which issue did that happen in?

This is obviously a culturally divisive issue. A chink or a subhuman slav like you obviously has no problem with ignoring consent, aborting a marriage and making deals with the devil, but Anglos and Germanic tribes and American men will never reject God or deal with Satan to rape an old woman's corpse back to life!

The day Marvel reverses this decision and does it in comic Canon with Peter realizing he really fucked up is the day I become Marvel comic Stan again. I'll actually buy comics instead of just reading storytimes of it. I'm sure others feel the same way. I'll keep waiting

Spider-gwen.

The guy asks why they give miles sloppy seconds and I argue that she just another different character from the original. Through it would make more sense for spiderverse gwen stacy to be daughter of RIPeter.

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>There are stories all over history about people doing shit like that to disastrous results
Slott being on Spidey for 10 years IS a disastrous result.

>She's literally so pure and selfless she's fine with passing on for her Peter.
And you should respect her wishes.

You know what's funny? This guy says he's only been doing this song and dance for only a month but there's posts from since before the movie even released complaining about the romance, "original Peter" dying and being replaced, and this movie being a focus-test product that are clearly the same guy.

Keeping someone alive is more important than respecting them.

morning sleepy head how have you been?

I'm just saying if you're going to make a new spider-man why not give him a new love interest? Wally west didn't try to get with Barrys squeeze and that same goes for Barry to Jay, when Bruce was dead Dick didn't suddenly go for catwoman. I understand why he can't stand on his own two feet as a character but does literally everything have to be a hand me down for him?

>I'm just saying if you're going to make a new spider-man why not give him a new love interest?
That's not what you're saying, like, at all. What you're saying is Spider-Gwen is 616 Gwen Stacy. The whole argument falls apart for anyone who acknowledges that isn't the case.

What if they're in constant pain that can't be dealt with? What if they're comatose? What if they have a terminal illness? I understand the sanctity of life but if there is no way out there is no way out, would you really prefer to yourself or a loved one"live" as a vegetable for a decade than die with dignity?

I can see that you stopped getting responses in the current Spider-Verse thread so you had to move on over here to find people willing to engage your idiocy.

See? You still treating her as she is the same gwen. People know the differences between gwen stacy and spidergwen. A simple wiki search can explain it.

I love the fucking faces of legitimate surprise on that guy's face when Jackal is trying to pull "hehe, I am merely pretending to be retarded... isn't that what you enjoy?"

He's legitimately confused.

In this particular case none of those things are a concern.

Gwen stacy is gwen stacy she's only being pushed because there is no one left to pay royalties to. And one of the most interesting aspects of spider-man was how he balanced his life with his hero work, the fact that Miles literally has a super hero girl friend who is a just a replacement for a mainline universe character?

Nigger I'm the one who did the storytime, I was baited out this time? Now do you have anything else to contribute other than "it was a good movie so who cares if there is no creativity in the comics for this comic book character?"

its pretty great and a solid sign that someone should probably have a camera in there to make sure they can just throw him in actual prison

You're confused, I'm not Gwenshipper. He is. I'm just here to do my fellow board posters a solid and notify them NOTHING you say is gonna stick to this guy and he'll always respond in one of his 5 copy-pasta tier answers.

>Now do you have anything else to contribute other than "it was a good movie so who cares if there is no creativity in the comics for this comic book character?"
Yeah, how about taking a fucking break from the internet you 25/8 hour weirdo.

Its an alternate universe version of the same character. Just like how DKR Injustice and fucking pirate batman are all bruce wayne. Or how 616 peter Ultimate peter noir peter and even spider-gwens school shooter peter are all peter parker. Just because they hipified it for a new generation doesn't make it a new character

Dude I'm obsesses with a comic book treating its characters poorly here, you're obsessed with me. I'd say they're both equally sad but at least I'm bringing arguments. You just give up and insult me. All I want is a new fucking character, like Linda Douglas spunky school reporter whose suspicoius of why Miles is missing all the time. Or Debrah Ali, Miles dorky next door neighbor that used to play with him until she moved away in 4th grade moves back in high school to Miles surprise. Hell Bombshell would work as a relationship or even Fucking Mayday, give him a real connection to peter.

It's almost like this whole story was a poorly thought up mess that only exists just so that Marvel can keep Peter as a teenager.

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Marvel """""""""""""heroes""""""""""""""""""" everyone

> the ock tentacle on the table reflected in the window
gotta love the little details

You are right

>Freaking GOD comes personally to tell you to let go
>Welp better make a deal with the devil

Now get married and ask your mom "Hey Mom. If me divorcing my wife after I convince her to abort your grandchild were to somehow grant you another year or two on this planet, would you do it?"

You'll either find out that your mother is horrible, or that your mother is appalled by your dumb question.

I can't remember the number, but it was when Pete moves into Avengers tower because his home got wrecked and he just became an avenger, May is flirting with Jarvis when Wolverine comes in acting like an ass to Jarvis about breakfast. Then this happens.

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Reminder that Aunt May will be diyng for the third time this year, now because of a cancer.

This was a fun thread

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That's not bendis that JMS, I don't think aunt may appeared in an avengers book

Technically not abortion, more like pulling out.

But you're not bringing arguments. You're just regurgitating the same talking points that were refuted previously. For instance this whole "give him another girl" bit? That was already covered a few threads back when it was explicitly pointed out there's no indication that Spider-Gwen is his definitive last romance.
And it always boils down to "anyone but Gwen, she is Peter's dead girlfriend" which as an objectively verifiable falsehood.
It's perfectly valid to respond to your posts with insults because your arguments are disingenuous by design.

user you're going full retard now.

Yes but he doesn't even have a romance to begin with like he doesn't have a motivation or a villain or an origin or even a good story he has half of one movie. 8 years and that's it, I'd rather ditch him and try again with someone to write into the world but now the movie has stuck the fucker to him

And you're right back where you started, Movie Bad Because Miles Bad.

My bad, been a while since I read it.

We got two mini-storytimes out of it, makes me happy.

ain;t no thang at least you're not making fun of me

No I'm saying Miles bad because his only defining trait is black

Because people you love passing away is a natural aspect of life, one the we all will have to face one minute or another. And taking into consideration that Peter should be the "relatable hero", letting Aunt May pass away (for the second time) would not only be a turning point of chsracter growth, it would deeply connect with every reader who went through this, or will have to face this in the future. They denied making Peter indo a deeper, more fleshed out character out of spite for the ideia.

because it's a creatively bankrupt idea.

which is retarded in itself, because all my life I grew up with married Spider-Man

No, you are actually not saying that.
You're saying the movie is bad because it made a version of Miles that people liked and that means he won't go away. Of course in your typical smoke-screen fashion you do this by calling the movie "alright" or "good" but you've quite clearly demonstrated you can't simply get over the fact that Miles could be written well and there's no inherent core problem to the character good writers can't avoid. Because your autism can't handle any Peter Parker dying, or any Gwen Stacy ending up with anyone but Peter. And naturally anyone who disagrees with you doesn't care about the characters.
Get a fucking grip asshole.

Ok now I get it. You just made this thread because you're afraid to lose your mom and you think you would do the same in Peter's place. It's ok to be scared user, we're never really prepared to face those kind of things. But keep in mind that this is something natural, as sad as it is, that someday she will inevitably pass away. Our moms won't live forever, as sad as this may be. Keep your head up.

Movie set everything about Miles in contast to Peter up, better than Bendis ever did:
- upper middleclass, private school
- living parents
- previously very popular at his old school
- more into art than sciences
- personal villain: prowler (movie can't give him an entire rogues gallery out of the blue)

As for his character: In contrast of his heroism being driven by guilt, he's a second wave hero: looking up to the ones that came before him while also being motivated by his desire to do good. As for his negative character aspects: A bit more careful/cowardly and was more ready to give up once the other spiders told him to stand down. He rose up again to it though.

Aunt May told him it was her time and she was fine dying.

I'm saying the movie is creatively bankrupt and uses a franchise I love to subvert its main character. I'm sorry I didn't like the movie to your satisfaction. If it was just a Miles and peter story or didn't have gwen as the main love interest than maybe I could over looks its flaws but I can't

Bendis can't give him a single original rogue to begin with

> I'm sorry I didn't like the movie to your satisfaction.
Don't be sorry for that you fucking cretin.
Be sorry you spent the last 3 going on 4 months posting the same shit over and over again wasting people's time arguing with you when you have absolutely no intention of doing anything but assuming the initial point over and over again.

Bendis couldn't write any original spidey stories in the first place, once he was done remixing classic Spidey stories in Ultimate and Peter killed off he was water treading to stay afloat. Hence why Peter's cast kept coming back: Couldn't come up with anyone new.

Gwen was the reason he asked his uncle about girls, but ultimately they were friends first. Any potential romance might be explored in a sequel. Miller outright said that.

and you should be sorry you spent the last three months getting worked up over some sad fuck on the internet not liking the childrens movie you paid to see alone in theaters.

Now you're nitpicking one small part of the argument to try and make a comeback and ignoring the rest because it doesn't help your case. user... Let it go.

haha doc ock has a molecule dog

i like this

Underrated post.

That is fine, its organic that the new spider-man would go to his o;d friends for advice and help. What isn't organic is giving him web shooters by having a dimensional convergence make him meet a more popular version of the person he idolized

I'm just saying it stupid to take a character who had an important part of a story, "more important" by just giving her the qualities of her former love interest and almost flipping the script I'll say it again

Peter
>Gwen died because of my weakness and Hubris

Gwen
>Peter died because of his weakness and hubris

I hate these characters because of who they stepped on to become what they are and how they still define themselves by nothing other than the shadow they'll never leave

If I'd done something like that, my mother would kick my ass. IIRC Aunt May told him not to do it as well via the spirit world or some shit.

yeah, he's a pretty straightforward heroic shota

hopefully he will get his own rogues gallery next movie, they've left space for doc ock to continue being alive

JMS made peter being in the avengers work great, I wasn't a fan of it till then. Still not a big fan now but at least he's rebuilding his reputation

Sounds like you're making an argument that you would be ashamed to tell your mother, OP. Are you a shill on his first day at the job?

>I'm just saying it stupid to take a character who had an important part of a story, "more important" by just giving her the qualities of her former love interest and almost flipping the script I'll say it again
Right so we're back at Spider-Gwen Is Gwen Stacy.

You are conviniently ignoring the real arguments of "Old people die" "He can't keep her alive forever" "it's the circle of life" "It just happens" so I'll assume you're just baiting. Enjoy watching the movie with your pet cats or something, see ya.

Then your mom is crazier than you.

Those are all very western concepts and OP is obviously a slavfuck.

>the devil is bad
>not an argument
Ok Satan, you win.

Not him, but I wonder how things would have turned out if she wasn't an alternate universe Gwen and a original character.

Can't remember 616 Gwen being in a punk rock band to drum her aggressions out.

Face it, your mother is a terrible parent who raised a braindead son out of sheer incompetence.

He'd focus harder on RIPeter dying for Miles instead. The important thing is that this movie is a cash grab ruining Peter, not details like that.

You're doing this on purpose I swear to God.

I actually wouldn’t it’s a combination of things I have a problem with, Gwen just happens to be the biggest and if she wasn’t in it I wouldn’t be nearly as persistent

Like we're gonna take your word for it you consummate liar.

The movie was great for Peter because people loved middle-aged divorced Spider-Man which blows everything OMD stood for out of the water. You absolute swine.

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Meant for

and I can't remember 616 peter trying to shoot up his school

Well that's an easy one.

A mother's life (well, Aunt's, but you get the idea) is worth significantly less than the life of a grandchild.

Ditkopeter absolutely would have if he hadn't gotten bit, though.

No modern reader gives a fuck what Gwen Stacy dying origianlly stood for in the comic history. Let the broad websling in her symbiote suit, why the fuck not. Parker sold his marriage, Doc Ock is currently a Spider-Man himself. None of these characters is what they were or what they originally stood for.

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You're like a fucking villain, I was having a nice thread trying to make someone understand the inevitability of death than you Milesfag had to come in and ruin it. I'm finally breaking down to your level and labeling you, you petty freak.still love you though

That was my post, and I meant it for the guy I replied to. Whatever.

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Ditko peter would've been ditko but with science, where he would've just worked hard made some successful contributions to society than die alone in his apartment where no one would find him for 2 days

A person's life doesn't "belong" to anyone but themselves.

You'll always belong to the people around you, as they belong to you. We're all parts of each others lives. Love and hate entwines us all.

That's nonsense for anyone from a society that didn't repeal serfdom until the late 19th century. In fact ever since the Russians bought into this neolib "everyone belongs to themselves" concept, the country's social structure has been in rapid decay. Not unlike China.
Some people literally can't function as not belonging to others, like OP. I guess Spider-man is just a mysterious concept to them.

Two adult men dressed as spider-people in the middle of Queens.

>It was so bad that One Moment in Time was done to slightly change what happened and was poorly received.
I'd argue that OMIT was worse.

Then you didn't realize the second sentence was sarcastic.

Anthony Mackie was asked if he wanted falcon to take up the mantle of cap since chris evans was leaving and he said something to the affect of "Falcon is his own man and hero, why would you only take him seriously if he took up the mantle of another hero?" That's how I feel about it the death of gwen stacy started a trend that became a fucking joke by the 80's and 90's setting up a love interest just to kill them off for a cheap motivation to end whatever arc, and when she gets avenged that just reverts the status quo to do it again next year. When it happened to peter it was an actual fucking thing that changed him, changed his relationship to the job with his friends and life, they tried to write it into his character and it was fucking amazing. To just turn her into another generic spider-person is stupid enough but to do that and resign her to being a love interest again seems actually insulting, sure you can go on and on about how cool she is, about how much shes not like other girls and that's what makes her great. But it just seems demeaning to pretend like it means anything. but I suppose there isn't anything left to comics, its just IP farms for an endless sea of bland sequels and pointless arguements

Hey user, your mom is going to die one and and I'm sorry, my mom is going to die one day and I'm tearing up thinking about it Fuck we;re both going to die one day. Life means nothing without end, we bicker we fight we make bad decisions and come together to laugh about them. Just give her a hug watch some movies and show her you love her by finding someone else to love. You seem like a good guy that any woman would be lucky to have and nothing makes a parent happier than seeing their child happy. I love you user and I know its tough but its life and its what makes it all worth it

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Not just movie Gwen, the whole concept in general in the comics as well. Since most new characters are usually shit on or ignored.

You sound like a faggot.

Could be trying on costumes for Halloween or a party, you know.

I didn't. Sorry about that.

and you sound generic

> there isn't anything left to comics, its just IP farms for an endless sea of bland sequels and pointless arguements
You finally realized it! By god he finally realized it! You've finally realized that cape comics aren't some gold standard or that their stories are untouchable, or inherently meaningful!

>getting your hopes up
He is 100% guaranteed to return to talking about how important it is for Gwen to acknowledge Peter because of comics.
To borrow the words of a great man, he is too obsessed and he hasn't realized shit.

>user cannot accept the natural order of things
>will no doubt think a lusty REEE will scare off Death when his turn comes

Just like every single person here, just angry bland people looking to get into a fight in order to feel something. Not realizing when you define yourself by the negativity you create you're still desperately clinging to recognition

Just go eat a pile of dicks you sad waste of space

I mean just how pathetic do you have to be to not understand the only reason the old stories were any good was because some of the writers were better?
And a legitimately well written work involving Spider-man comes along, gets praised as a work of art, and you reject it because Only Peter Parker and Its A Cash Grab. You're absolutely part of the problem.

I've had a good time, reading the comics posted, reading the reactions to the dumb shit you've said. How am I coming across as angry? Of course you need to protect your ego by pretending you're better than us, that you are not an "angry bland person" trying to fight for his right to make a deal with the devil so his mom lives another few years and have it recognized by us as a good idea.

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>Murdock is dead
Kek

Lol, you hear that Gwenshipper? You're so insipid this guy actually thinks you're OP too.

It was. The whole thing was unnecessary and just opened a wound and poured salt and acid on it.

I didn't say I wasn't and don't bring up that shit our bullshit has nothing to do with that

>A legitimatly well written work involving Spider-men
plural. because we all can be spider-man so try your leap of faith off the tallest building and see what happens

I'm not so invested in this thread that I care to keep one idiot seperat from another. It's sunday, I'm doing some chores, toss myself a salad, just check in now and then.

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For the record, calling the film creatively bankrupt ad nauseam just because your entire position as a fan of ye olde days of comics relies on it doesn't make it a true claim or your position valid.

>pic
Hot. I especially like how her nose is sticking out, usually the mask doesn't allow for a silhouette.

1:Mephisto is not the devil. If you read comics, you would know that.
2: Peter Parker would pay any price not to lose someone again because of his own actions, especially not his other parent. If you read comics, you would know that.
3:next you're going to say some shit about souls and the daughter and and and... And none of that's real. He didn't sell his soul, explicitly. The daughter was a possibility, not a real future daughter- that's not how time works in Marvel. It was Mephisto in a disguise being a scenery chewing villain. If you read comics, you would know that.

Peter Parker, more than anything, is driven by guilt. The guilt of knowing that his actions led to the death of both Ben and May? He would pay any personal price to avoid that. That's who he is.

The story is fucking terrible- absolutely embarrassing shit recycled from a clone saga ending they didn't use because it was fucking stupid then. But in it, Peter behaves as Peter, and no amount of being pissy will change that.

A soul is learned, not genetic.

I find it cute with how they're emoting with their eyes. Homecoming showing how the lenses of a spider-suit could squint was pretty neat in that regard.

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Physician heal thyself and all that.

Reminder to all you cucks that your mothers only love you because of an obligation and would love any of the other millions of children they could've born with the same biologically pre-fabricated love.

Harry got a better death than his father and he was only brought back in tertiary proximity to a really dumb retcon, Norman was at the forefront of several really dumb retcons and he didn't get any decent material for close to a decade until Thunderbolts and Dark Reign.

Harry came back via clone conspiracy and is currently raising his son with Liz Allan and his estranged mother, right? I barely remember it but at least he's... good? That's as a pretty good fate right there.

he had that good arc in peter parker vol2 and I liked some of the stuff in MK spider-man like norman doing the sinister 12 but I did hate the retcon of him always being evil

Harry came back due to the retconned marriage

Tbqh no-one should give a fuck about Harry. At least Liz is happy.

I've always liked kinda Harry, sue me.
Hm. That is something.

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Why do people still defend this when even the comics are getting them back together, and when the game’s ending is basically an anti-OMD?

and he started dating the mayors daughter but the got cucked by norman than he decided to gt back with liz and start raising normie then got cucked by norman I like harry but slott did nothing of value with him

>1:Mephisto is not the devil. If you read comics, you would know that.

That's a semantics argument that doesn't really work. Even though he's not Satan, he still fills in for a role similar to it, or is a demon anyway. It's like saying "No, no, Peter didn't deal with the devil, he dealt with a demon!"

You know what I'm surprised about? Second Coming got all that negative attention from Christians even though it wasn't out yet, yet OMD didn't.

Isn't he like the official unofficial satan? Him dormamu surtur all kinda fit the role but supposedly there is a one below all whose probably stan lee

Slott has barely done anything of value for any character.

the fucker finally introduced harrys mom and I don't think we ever got an explanation on where she was

Civil War ruined everything, especially Spider-Man. That's your answer.

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1 young life> 1 old life
Easy maths bro
Also Slott is a hack

I guess if you'd press him for answers he'd say she off the grid to escape her abusive husband, who despite having crazy ressources, never managed to track her down.

OP here.
So I guess I should just lie and say that MJ was pregnant during the deal even though the story presents it only as potential?

If the sperm successfully penetrated the egg and nested in it, the thing counts as life by western christianity standards. Even if it could sef-terminate after a week or two.

Well I hate to break it to you but we're not western christians.

MJ wasn't pregnant it was a metaphor. why even tell your mom about one more day? Its tangential to the movie at best

I really think explaining why the divorce papers scene is why Peter B. is the best interpretation of the character in over a decade is a good conversation topic. I just think it's weird that I have to pitch OMD as "Peter sold his marriage and child to save his maternal guardian's life" rather than the truth, and if I bring up something like Aunt May wanting to die or being really old or God or the devil being bad it'll just come across as juvenile and self-centered excuses.

Then just don't bring it up, that's it, it ain't that hard user. Also Mephisto is literally an evil person who fucks over everyone who makes deals with him so I don't know what to tell you.

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Literally he's afraid to have children because his first love died when a super villain found out who he loved its not that hard

>and if I bring up something like Aunt May wanting to die or being really old or God or the devil being bad it'll just come across as juvenile and self-centered excuses.
What?

>Universe where God and the Devil exist
>Peter makes a deal with a demon/devil/etc
>I'm afraid of bringing it up because I might sound juvenile!

Are you really this shallow?

No it's just God and the Devil are juvenile concepts.
If selling your marriage to save a maternal figures life is wrong it should be wrong in principle and not because of other circumstances.

where are you from id you don't mind me asking?

Also just talk about the death of gwen stacy because that completely explains his hesitance and terror to the thought of have children to the point of seperating himself from his best friend and wife. Though don't talk during a movie its rude

Think I've made it abundantly clear that I'm Russian.
>Also just talk about the death of gwen stacy because that completely explains his hesitance and terror to the thought of have children to the point of seperating himself from his best friend and wife.
Peter wasn't scared of having children to the point of divorce. The reason he is divorced in the movie is directly related to the way OMD regressed him as an individual, and the divorce and the reunion lets Peter get back up again after that massive hit he took.

Yep, and the best part in all of this is that Aunt May returned from the death and fucking nobody cared. Literally nobody. Somewhere in a New York cemetery there is an Aunt May grave with the body of a dead Aunt May inside and nobody even cared to check why.
Not even Aunt May herself ever asked why has she been kidnapped and kept captive for months by Green Goblin.

>No it's just God and the Devil are juvenile concepts.

God and the Devil exist within the Marvel Universe. This isn't a fucking debate about whether they exist in real life. This is about fucking story consistency. Johnny Blaze made a deal with Mephisto to save his foster father's life, it goes wrong, and Blaze ended up becoming the Ghost Rider.

But his aunt may was already dead so its not like he was clinging to some lost adolescence. There is no explanation other than he was afraid, cause the future is scary. The Gwen argument of his personal history the OMD argument of his editorial history they're just place fillers since the movie didn't elaborate enough on its other characters

I'm sorry, I just don't care whether it's the devil or not and I doubt anyone who isn't familiar with the character would. I hate OMD because it was massive character regression but Mephisto is as far as I'm concerned just a story device.

You're not making any sense at all user. Placing this in the context of the overall Spider-mythos it makes sense what they were going for which is what I want to convey during the viewing since not everyone knows the context.

user you're thinking about this more than the writers did. Getting someone killed because of your inaction isn't something you just forget, yeah you let yourself move on but it stays with you. The from gwen you had the death of jean dewolf the framing of ned leeds kravens last hunt. His life is full of problems to justify a fear of more family. It's almost as if he has enough nuance and story to fill a movie like this all on his own.

>user you're thinking about this more than the writers did.
Look I don't know what your deal is and why you're having a drama over it with the other guy but I actually love this movie and what the writers did so if all you've got to say is don't like this movie then I think this conversation is over.

why are you trying to bring the worst story into this then?

But see, that's what the problem also some people who work at Marvel have. You don't think about characters, you're thinking of them as story devices. If it was Loki doing the deal (as it was originally planned), it takes on a different spin because it's the God of Mischief doing it. There's a world of difference between using an Asgardian character and a demon for the deal.

On top of that, it raises questions why Mephisto would even be involved. He's never really dealt with Spider-Man up until OMD. Loki at least was brought into a Spider-Man storyarc that JMS wrote prior.

As a contrast.

You're so fucking blind that it hurts.

Only time I can think pete would've been involved with Mephisto is that fight he and daredevil had with Blackhart, then maybe infinity gauntlet

>it takes on a different spin because it's the God of Mischief doing it.
So you're saying it would've been fine in principle to sell his marriage to Loki to save May's life? I don't get it.

>fine with erasing your future children so someone at the end of their life can have a few more years
You're the real monster here.

No it would change the nature of the back stab, besides he specifically had a favor owed to him by loki at the time so that could've worked into it somehow. Though giving your marriage to the god of mischief makes more sense than the embodiment of evil

Children being worth more than elders isn't as universal as you think.

but are you really saying if you could only save one person from a burning building a 1 year old or a 90 year old you'd have a hard time making that choice?

But that's just story details. It doesn't explain why selling a marriage to save a mother's life is wrong as a global principle. Fiction is supposed to convey truths that stand even with the narrative removed. OMD is terrible but the idea that a marriage is worth more than a mother figures life just because the mother figure is old doesn't make sense.

Yes, because in terms of story:

JMS set up an arc where Loki owes Spider-Man a favor. Story logic follows is that Spider-Man would call in on that favor, Loki does the favor but it has the catch of making Peter and Mary Jane not married, since he's the God of Mischief. He also has different goals compared to a demon's.

Not at all, if the 90 year old is my ancestor and the 1 year old is my child I save my elder. I can get a new kid later. Trading 1 year for someone's 90, it's just math.

I don't like your maths bro

>But that's just story details

No, it's about characterization. If you can swap out Loki with Mephisto and claim there's no change, there's a serious problem.

The 1 year old hasn't even accomplished anything to validate their existence.

That's not the true message the true message that the story tried to convey (through Queseda) is that marriage is bad because mine didn't work. Digging a little deeper the reason its an actual struggle is because its unnatural to give up your future for your past.

That's not what the question is even about though. No-one is arguing it's good characterization. Again characterization is an aspect of the narrative. What matters is how to disprove that the mother figure's life is more valuable than the marriage which is the core of the story.
And you know a pragmatist would just say that making a deal with the devil to save someone's life is the height of moral courage. You know, like that guy who said Judge Dredd was right for nuking people.

But the 90 year old has done everything they can do and outlived their life expectancy by 15 years, unless its some sort of scientist on the way to a break through for the betterment of humanity you save the baby

you want reason, here are a few I can think of the top of my head:
>the mother figure would have been against that deal
>not only are you trading a marriage, you are trading a possible life + all the happiness of that marriage
>you are selling it to a bad guy and probably helping him do evil shit with it
the old woman most likely did everything they could do in her life, and you are just cutting the chances of the baby to do anything with their life.

Only if you are playing the utilitarian game, I'm talking about material validation.
Nature isn't inherently right.

Then what are you, despite being a massive fucking weirdo. You want rational arguments why Peter selling his marriage and soft-resetting the entire earth is a good decision... which I wouldn't be ashamed to tell my (estranged) mother, because a mother's life is "inherently more worth than a marriage". Guess what, I'd throw my own waste of space of a mother to Mephisto if he'd promise me he'd give her a warm spot.

Wake up you goddamn mother's boy. Stop sucking her teat and accept that she's a flawed human, and when it's her time she better be ready to bow out to make room for the next generation. Sacrificing your life for her is the dumbest route. Honor thy elders but don't go to far, dog.

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>1:Mephisto is not the devil. If you read comics, you would know that.
Okay, why don't you explain why making a deal with a being of darkness, who rules over a portion of Hell, torments, tempts and corrupts the living and has little but malice towards humanity is BETTER than making a deal with Satan.

"Geez, guys, it's not like he made a deal with the real Devil! Just an incredibly powerful lord of Hell."

>2: Peter Parker would pay any price not to lose someone again because of his own actions, especially not his other parent. If you read comics, you would know that.

Right down to ignoring their expressed wishes all for his own happiness. After all, you read comics. You must have read the one-shot where Peter was able to speak with May in her comatose state and she told him that she was ready to see Ben again and her dearest wish was for him and MJ to live happily after she passed?
>The daughter was a possibility, not a real future daughter- that's not how time works in Marvel.
Yeah, a possibility that Mephisto wanted to avoid, since she would become a foe of his and thwart him.
Hmm... erasing the possibility of someone who can stymie Satan - sorry a very powerful lord of Hell. Yeah, that makes perfect sense for a hero.

Do YOU read comics? It seems like you need a refresher.

That's the thing about chance, once you actually take into account the gaussian distribution for the expected value you see that the chance of a child's life is a zero sum.
Whereas the elder, especially if it's a parent, has almost certainly contributed and therefore validated their existence.
As for the greentext points they are also essentially external circumstances and do not refute the core.

If you look at his posts, he thinks that it's an irrelevant argument because God and the Devil are juvenile concepts. Even though, you know, the point isn't whether they're real in real-life, the point is about story logic.

Your dead mother won't provide for you once you're old, your lovingly raised child could.

So lets split this up into four different scinerios all of them require you to make a decision between saving a 1 year old and a 90 year old but the relationships change

Grand Father vs Your Child
Grand Father vs random baby
Random old dude vs your child
Random old dude vs random baby

Two of them seem obvious to me but I'd like to hear your side, is this decided on connection to the individual involved or is it an actual cultural difference between us. If i was the old man I'd want you to save the kid, if I mad it to 90 i'd be impressed I was cool enough to die in a ire

I'm not the guy he was replying to, that guy is bananas.
But I also don't care about story logic. I know the story logic is shit. I want to know why the conclusion is wrong. If you've read logic you know that from a falsehood you can imply both true and false. In this case I don't see why the implication that marriage is worth less than a life is false.
I'm sorry you don't get along with your mother but the fact is if a mother would give up her life for your happiness that's just all the more reason to not let her die.

Aunt May is fucking old enough and dying enough to where even in the late 80s and early 90s they hinted at her fucking being deathly ill.
She would have coughing fits and have a thought bubble like OH PETER, I DON'T THINK I'LL BE AROUND MUCH LONGER

Speaking of late 80s and early 90s, that seems to be what her age is. She may have literally had One More Day left to fucking live naturally. She's old. Super fucking old. It makes no sense. It's the worst Spiderman story and if not for the story of Falcon secretly being a Hydra/Nazi sleeper agent (and an ex-pimp) I'd consider it the worst comic book story I've ever read period.

>Yeah, he's either a troll or a fedora-tipping 'rationalist'. Given I'm still not sure what side of 'intentionally stupid' we should come down on.

It's an actual cultural difference. If it's a random anybody I don't save them at all.
So row 1 Grandfather. Row 2 Grandfrather. Row 3 child. Row 4 noone.

> a mother would give up her life for your happiness that's just all the more reason to not let her die.
Mine wouldn't. Aunt May was. Either you're as dumb as Peter was written in that issue and try to find validation here or you're a fantastic troll.

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But the problem is with this is you lose someone regardless of action or inaction, mothers are great most of the time but what about the mother of your children? is she not worth the same consideration to you? Is it simply because shes your childrens mother and not your mother shes not worth as much to you?

Where the hell were you raised?

You'd let them both die? A baby weighs less than 30 pounds ad you wouldn't carry it out due to no blood relation? It really is cold in siberia eh vlad?

>Is it simply because shes your childrens mother and not your mother shes not worth as much to you?
Yes, she should know what she's getting into. By marrying me my mother would be her family too and she should be willing to give up her children for my mother because they're literally only children.

He's the guy who got Donald Trump elected that's how good he is

Russians would do stupid shit but even there you gotta be able to rely on each other. Even if communism did a number on them, orthodox christianity isnt' so so hot on abandoning random babies to deah, or being pro-devil dealings.

You can't let competitive tribes compete. It's cuckoldry. We like to dress it up in talks of solidarity and community but at the end of the day everyone knows its your own versus them.

Why is the life of the old lady more valuable to you? because she proved her worth to exist or something like that?
And if you don't want in-story reason why that was a retarded choice? fine
the old lady is one life, the marriage can't create more than 1 life.
so marriage>old lady.
Are you fucking amish or something like that? My grandpa would fucking kick my ass if I saved him before any baby

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I like how you didn't actually address any of my points. Here, let's try again:

1. Why is making a deal with a demon lord so different from that of Satan that is worth pointing out?
2. Why do you feel ignoring the specific and clearly-stated wishes of someone just for your own selfish sense of morality is justified?
3. Even if the daughter was a possibility, she was a possibility that Mephisto wanted to avoid because of her interference in his plans. Why is helping a being of utter evil for your short-term happiness acceptable?

>that's just all the more reason to not let her die.
Any mother, already dying, worthy of the name would give up her life if it meant their children would thrive and have a loving family and a BEING OF EVIL WOULDN'T GET WHAT HE WANTED. Keeping her around just for your personal happines is selfish, short-sighted and spits upon the very ideals that that mother stands for.

It is though. You can just say you're sorry. Literally any sin, you just need to say you're sorry. Russian Orthodox was designed by Russians, for Russians.

I'm assuming you're not in a relationship right now

Does anyone else here want to start a band called Pro-devil Dealings?

You absolute buffon. Humans only survived by helping each other out and maximizing ressources by sharing work.

that's why you are still unmarried you weird little man. No fucking sane person would agree with you

That's not very spider-man of you buddy

Ah, not from what I've seen of the russians and other slavs I've met. Fascinating guilt complex they can have there.

Please start the band. Let one good(?) thing come from this.

Were are you from, OP. Let's play 20 questions. Asia or Africa?

Pretty sure May herself would have put Pete's happiness above giving her a few extra years.

>I like how you didn't actually address any of my points. Here, let's try again:
I'm telling you I'm not that guy, I don't care if it's Satan or not.
As for specific wishes they don't change right from wrong. Right and wrong are not up to the mother to decide, they're universal tenets.
And again the possibility of her daughter being a Mephisto is another narrative circumstance that I don't care about because it's not central to the core of the issue, which is that a man choosing a mother over a wife.
>And if you don't want in-story reason why that was a retarded choice? fine
the old lady is one life, the marriage can't create more than 1 life.
>so marriage>old lady.
But all those potential lives amount to zero once you realize they're just as likely to turn out bad as good.
Whereas the living old woman is already a net positive.
And yes it is because she proved her worth to exist that she is more valuable.

First album
Sticky Prayers
Hit single
I sold my wife to the devil (and all I got was a lousy T-shirt)

I'm pretty sure it was the plot of one of the What if?

>She may have literally had One More Day left to fucking live

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Huh

Eurasia. But I've already answered that question.

She did. He was able to talk to her while she was in the coma. She told him she'd lived a long, full life with no regrets. She was ready to be with Ben again and her only wish was that he and Mary Jane would live happily and love each other.

Peter: LOL NO I WANT WHEATCAKES LET ME DO THE EXACT OPPOSITE OF WHAT YOU ASKED FOR

>not from America
>is retarded and batshit insane
wow fancy that

>But that just validates saving her even more. She's literally so pure and selfless she's fine with passing on for her Peter.
No. It's entirely natural for any parent to put their child first. That doesn't make them saintly.

We're at 422 posts, sorry that I missed it. However, if, IF you ever have grandchildren, be prepared that they'd leave you in the burning building to save a random baby. Your worldview is absolutely atrocius.

but the old lady doesn't have anything else to give, meanwhile the kid has endless possibilities and even if you keep calling those chances zero, that gamble is way better than outright zero(the old lady). But if you value the existence of somebody old over somebody young, I'm pretty sure what I'm saying will go to deaf ears.

Not for OP, apparently. Dude's having to reconcile the fact that his parents are just selfish pricks that expect him to sacrifice his happiness for them and no one here agrees with it.

No user you don't get it your mother is not an autonymous person with her own free-will and capability of making decisions, what you've really gotta do is just ignore the stupid bint and sell your marriage to satan so you can make her proud by undoing your whole life and becoming a mouthbreathing nerd living in her attic again.

I am prepared to make them read OMD so that they know the greatest hero on Earth 616 would save his mother first.
Just kidding I won't do that I'm not a monster.

>Pretty sure most would milk the last bit of life out of their offspring
WHAT?

It's not that the chance is zero user. It's that the expectation value is zero. For every good thing a child could potentially do it could do something bad, just as likely, across the entire spectrum of potential actions. So the sum total is zero.

Literal vampire parents.

I dig it.

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suppose loki did this, what would he gain out of it? a free spectral baby?

and we are saying that the old lady was so fucking perfect that all the the good shit she did weighted more than all the bad?

This thread is like reading a postmodern rendition of Kafka's Metamorphosis.

Yes. Absolutely. Especially if she managed to beat the odds and bring a child into the world that is a positive rather than a zero.

Spider-Baby raised by Loki could be a fun thing, not gonna lie.

Is there a superhero comics that is for someone who hates and wants to be away from everything that is Marvel (disney) and DC Comics?

so popping a kid makes her a positive, even if she is a cunt to the kid or ignores it or even abuses it? just going pop and she becomes a positive eh?, I'm fucking baffled mate.

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Obviously by being maternal she put in the effort to turn what is otherwise a zero into a hero, what's hard to grasp?

Lots of women only carry their children to term because it's to late to abort. The smart ones give theirs up in foster care until they have established themselves in life and get pregnant again.

Seems like an American/Western problem desu.

>Can anyone provide a rational argument why this wasn't the right decision in-universe? One that you wouldn't be ashamed to tell your mother, like
In what world is making a pact with satan, selling your child's soul and love, the right decision when faced with a parents death?
How could you justify to a grandmother the damnation of her grandchildren so she doesn't die due to a bullet wound (that cannot be cured by doctors, SCIENCE, magic, mutants, nanobots, or cosmic entities, all of which Peter has knowledge of)
What kind of witch-like grandmother would not be horrified knowing her grandkids were doomed to keep her alive?

i'd read this

why do you hate it

being a mother≠being maternal
but at this point I just don't fucking know what to say, I hope you never find yourself with your grandson in a burning building.

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It's not bad per se, better than being economally dependant on your husband and cranking out kids on the regular.

because marvel was allowed to buy by the slut disney and now marvel the disney bitch.

and DC, I think I just like the alternative to the traditional

The Spider-Spectre! Traveling the realms by hanging on her thread! Pendant for causing trouble and ending it! Jovial but has a lonely existence!

But if all those kids are willing to sell their marriages to keep you alive it's 100% worth it. I think you westerners don't realize how shitty it is to die. It really sucks. Pretty sure God and the afterlife isn't real or he wouldn't give a pass for every shitty thing people do just because they say they're sorry. Knowing what kind of people get into heaven anyway even if it is real it's probably not worth it.

how do you know death is shitty? I'm pretty sure you never died before. And if you make your kids give up their happiness for you, I have to tell you that you are a really shitty father.

I don't even know what you're talking about anymore. You're just afraid to die? That's it? Are you afraid that it'll be painful or that your time to influence anything on earth will be over? Perhaps this will help you:
youtube.com/watch?v=MBRqu0YOH14

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And his maybe sister

And apparently a robot brother as well

So that's
> Ben and Kaine
> Actual Sister
> ElliOtto
> Itsy Bitsy
> Master Matrix LMD
Can't wait for the family gathering.

That was entirely unhelpful.
And everyone is afraid to die. Which is why it makes even more sense to give up something like marriage, which doesn't require anyone to die, to keep someone from dying.
If death is natural then it doesn't make sense for people to be afraid of it to the point of inventing afterlives as a way to ignore it.

Assuming that Annie, Benji and Mayday are allowed to cross realities again they could show up too

2cute 4 me
loki would be an awful parental guide, i bet. or feed her hay and carrots since he gave birth to a horse that one time.

Astro City and Invincible.

And that's how this shit is going to get overridden if not straight-up retconned away. When somebody your age becomes EIC at Marvel and decides it's their turn to make Spidey more like what they grew up with.

It's the antithesis of what Spider-Man stands for. Death is a natural part of life and Aunt May was an old woman, she'd lived her life. Peter learning to accept and deal with that would've been an amazing story for his character. Making a literal deal with the devil to subvert the natural course of things is awful on so many levels.

Peter and Tony's fight was in part one, correct? At least that scene and the art work were pretty decent I guess.

And he missed the wedding because a "red hawk" let a fat criminal he busted escape from a cop car he was locked into, who just happened to want to rape a cop's girlfriend wife/while also killing said cop. Then has Peter get hit by a cinderblock thrown by said fat criminal and then has the fat fuck fall on him missing his wedding.

you mean besides the fact the woman he "saved" begged him to allow her to die, the natural order to continue, and to be reunited with the man she loved in death?

beyond that, making a deal with the devil is always going to go fucking sideways and the best way to avoid that is to not do it at all.

There's several Spider-Man vs. Iron Man fights, and that one was garbage because Quesada was the one drawing it and his composition looks like crap.

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What is going on with spidey's feet there?

the 90s

Because he could just go to Strange, Reed, or several thousand other supers that could've deus ex machina'd the problem away. Instead, we get a shitty excuse for a retcon because of a writer's agenda.

Well they had him do it and then came up with bullshit reasons why NOT to save her outside of Devil Power.

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Because a good mother would rather die and see their son live happily and make a life of their own with their own family than live because their son made a deal with a malevolent being to keep you alive just to see them live in perpetual mediocrity.

But the reality is that if Quesada wanted Peter and MJ gone he could have killed her, he could have made them amicably divorce or anything else but he chose the less heroic way to break them apart. Also Aunt May had already died and she had a good death but fuckers but not even she can rest from this BS.

Also the Spider-Man game did a better story with Peter having tho chose between Aunt May's life and the lives of others.

Yeah that is pretty bullshit and it's obvious Quesada was just putting his foot down in a "THERE'S NOTHING YOU CAN DO BUT SELL YOUR MARRIAGE" situation to Peter.

Worst I think it was MJ that made the final decision instead of Peter.

Also Stan's newpaper strip also tried to undo the marriage to go along with what OMD did but the newspaper strip readers (yes they exist) bitched about it and they brought back the marriage there.

I would rather have honest stagnation than having illusion of change that gets undone sooner or later

'Tis sweet and commendable in your nature, Hamlet,
To give these mourning duties to your father;
But you must know, your father lost a father;
That father lost, lost his, and the survivor bound
In filial obligation for some term
To do obsequious sorrow. But to persever
In obstinate condolement is a course
Of impious stubbornness. 'Tis unmanly grief;
It shows a will most incorrect to heaven,
A heart unfortified, a mind impatient,
An understanding simple and unschool'd;
For what we know must be, and is as common
As any the most vulgar thing to sense,
Why should we in our peevish opposition
Take it to heart? Fie! 'tis a fault to heaven,
A fault against the dead, a fault to nature,
To reason most absurd, whose common theme
Is death of fathers, and who still hath cried,
From the first corse till he that died to-day,
'This must be so.

God himself literally came down and told him to get over it, and then he said nope and made a literal deal with the literal devil literally.

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>A mother's life is inherently worth more than marriage.

Wrong. The blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb. When you get married, the family you make in that moment is more important than the family you came from. It doesn't mean the mother (or aunt, in this case) isn't important anymore- but to most people, they DO come second.

You've got some strange views, dude.

>Knowing what kind of people get into heaven anyway even if it is real it's probably not worth it.
What am I even reading now.

What would PS4 Peter think of OMD post game?

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Mayday is such a cool name. I just want to see her again.

Yup mothers just hope their kids can get a decent career so that their kid can look after them after the husband dies, kids are like latter life insurance,,,

Oh, that's getting really cute. You think Ashley would wand to come as well?

Because the Devil fucking popping up and asking for a street level hero’s marriage is fucking stupid.

What would aunt may want? ; she being almost a saint would come up with something like hey Yo' lived enough hommie, you live your life without me, Peace!

>pathetic

Did you not read brand new day? Losing the relationship he built also lost him other connections that were built up for decades longer than he was even married

>A mother's life is inherently worth more than marriage. Prove me wrong.
If I found out a family member made a literal deal with the devil and exchanged his child's soul to make it happen I would be mortified, even if it went towards saving my life. That's fucking evil and a bizarre direction to take Peter.

> bottom square Ock
The one guy who'd also be stupid enough to not let her go wouldn't help Peter? Sure.

OP doesn't seem like the kind of guy who considers consent and the devil relevant to questions of right and wrong.

She would get an invite, but decline because she’s a bitch

Then try non traditional DC, like Vertigo, Robinson's Starman, or Hitman, etc.

Or one of many other publishers like Dark Horse, or Image. They'll have stuff like Hellboy, and Black Hammer or Kick Ass

mary whore time has long passed

Nobody cares

>>Fantastic Four
>Would not help him due to him being a fugitive

That's just bad writing, Peter is essentially family to the FF so there's no way that's a good enough reason for him to be turned down. Also Sue and Johnny were on Cap's side too.

Not everyone is afraid to die. Death is natural, and afterlives are a comforting idea to make the loss of a loved one sting less, or give it all more meaning.

You should look up the traits of narcisstic parents, you might recognizr yours in them.

>Keeping someone alive is more important than respecting them.
Spoken like a true authoritarian. Now you've conceded the moral argument, you have no substance.

Surely with how popular Spiderverse movie got and how Spider-geddon had some set up for a sequel even though it wasn't that good, they must have some world out there where Mayday came to be?

Here's the thing, Quesada: One More Day is the absolute antithesis of the core of Spider-Man. Spider-Man is about accepting tragedy and learning to cope, and stories that go against that are always bad. One More Day is entirely about going against the natural order of life and even time, just because the main character refuses to allow nature to take its course. The ass pulls and the awful writing aside, Peter sacrificing his future, marriage, and child for Aunt May not to die from a consequence of events completely contradicts Spider-Man.

If Spock was a What If or an alternate universe version of Ock I'd be ok with him, but I hate that this is now 616 Ock.

Keep in mind, he once hijacked a plane and was going to hold the city hostage with a nuke.

What moral argument? This was always a value judgement, not a moral one.

>Mary = Mary Jane
>Richard = Dick = Peter
Oh my fucking god. How have I never seen this blatant shit before?

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Why are slavs so fucking idiots?

I absolutely agree. Can only hope for clone shenanigans to resurrect a version before Slott took over and keep the "Otto Octavius Duplicate" Elliot Tolliver seperate.