What's the point of making a Heroes vs Heroes event if one side is completely indefensible? I literally cannot think of one action Captain Marvel took in this event that anyone would agree with, and Bendis doesn't even attempt making both sides see justified in their actions.
What's the point of making a Heroes vs Heroes event if one side is completely indefensible...
Liam Cooper
Austin Nguyen
So pretty much just like the first Civil War event?
Juan Reyes
In the first Civil War book, both sides have an understandable point of view. Cap's side have no coherent or reasonable plan for achieving their goals, and Tony's side keep doing things that make them look like villains, but you can at least see what both sides are fighting for and why they want it.
In Civil War 2, Tony's side don't have much of a plan, but Carol's team's goal is getting people arrested or killed for things they haven't done, it's impossible to take their side.
Adrian Richardson
MCU did Civil War better. Come at me comicfags
Ayden Lee
You mean Civil Skirmish?
Landon Price
That skirmish>>>>>>>>>>>>>The entire run of Civil war
Connor Wood
Honestly I felt so cheated by the final issue of the comics. One page of cap fighting for his life, to the next page he's surrendering, and afterwards it feels like there's no real consequences. Best thing to come out of Civil War was Back in Black, but that was immediately followed by OMD the worst thing to come out of Civil War.
Jeremiah Kelly
Marvel zombies brought this on themselves.
They are the ones justifying all those heroes vs heroes storied with shitty reasons like "a hero killing another hero makes them more flawed, and thus more relatable". All Marvel does is catter to relatablefags, and if heroes killing each other is the best way to go, so be it.
Ryder Gutierrez
Carol did nothing wrong and Tony was a moron.
Matthew Walker
Carol does everything wrong and Tony is a moron.
Jeremiah Walker
Civil War is just an example of The Avengers catalog not having very many well developed or interesting villains. So they had to fight each other. Then they had to fight the x-men lmao.
Thats why X-Men will always be better then avengers. The X-Men catalog can carry itself. It's villains are enjoyable in the low and high tiers. Plus good story arcs.
Ryan White
First Civil War made Marvel a lot of money and Quesada said they would do them yearly. And it turns out that hero vs hero was the most popular aspect of Civil War and that's why it kept happening.
Mason Morgan
Is there a Hero vs Hero event where everybody doesn't act deliberately extreme and retarded in any continuity?
Matthew Price
Bendis is Bendis regardless. It's why the tie-ins tend to be much better than the actuall event. Hell, most of the writers for the tie-ins all hated it
Asher Torres
Then Civil War II proceeded to bomb
Blake Green
The reason they made Civil War 2 was because of the movie and because the first one made so much money. As far as I know it still sold well. The only comparatively bad selling Marvel events were Axis and Secret Empire. Events always make a lot of money and top the sales charts but Axis and SE were the worst selling of the most recent ones.
Bentley Parker
>Civil War II pros:
>The art, especially Marquez' Extremely Cute Tony
>The Tie-ins
>Civil War II cons:
>literally everything else
Eli Lee
Like many have said before, Civil War's idea is great, IF executed properly. Its premise of pitting heroes against each other, the superhuman registration had a ground to be debated about. It is kind of stupid but it's a much better reason than the one we had for Civil War 2.
But it just plain sucked. But what's really bad about Civil War is the comics that came after.
Logan Adams
While the X-Men may have a bigger and better rogues gallery than the Avengers, the comics have been screwing that rogues gallery for almost 20 years. First Morrison makes millions of mutants, 'more like a real minority', so the world had moved on and left Magneto and his followers behind, then Decimation happens, writers protected their own casts, so a large number of villains got depowered, and since then the lines between the X-Men and their mutant villains were blurred because most of them were living and working together. When they're not fighting Sentinels, human villains, or Mojo, the X-Men have spent a lot of the last 10 years fighting other heroes because of this.
Luke Stewart
Then it brought upon Secret Empire lmao with that last minute ending change. I still can't believe they made an event pushing Falcon as new Cap just to change him back immediately after, Holy shit rofl
Hunter Campbell
What the first half of this Carol was completely in the right and Tony had no legs to stand on. They weren't even pre-criming people they were prepping for the eventual crimes. Carol didn't go in the red until Tony actually got evidence that the visions would lose accuracy over time and she still went along full speed. Even then Tony was way worse and instigated a bunch of hero vs hero just because he was salty.
Andrew Mitchell
The fundamental problem of Civil War 2 was that the "debate" wasn't all that interesting or even a game changer for their world. They've encountered clairvoyants in the past before, so the Inhuman whogivesafuck was really just a forced plot device in a forced excuse to have two factions comprised of heroes who shouldnt even be there. The first Civil War had a interesting debate that was merely mishandled. Spider-Man outing himself on television, Stark recruiting villains, and the incident that kicked off the entire thing were all dumb decisions
You're right, but it still has it's share of issues. For example, the limited roster and focus on Bucky really took away from the premise. Didn't help that Zemo was not only a weak villain, but a 3rd party that had nothing to do with the central conflict of registration.
Asher Mitchell
Hero vs. Hero is to appease to the schoolyard arguments of "who would win in a fight between X and Y?". The problem is that most heroes don't have a reason to fight each other outside of friendly sparring, which doesn't count for many: it's not with full force or dramatic enough. Some heroes wouldn't fight another hero at all since there's to much of a power gap between them anyway.
So the characters have to act out of character for these kinds of fights to happen in the first place, add in a dash of milking whatever controversy /could/ sell or be hot for the moment, and you've got the basic hot mess of a writing premise of an event. It sells though, I guess. So it'll continue to happen.
I don't mind these Hero vs. Hero thing per se, but I wish they'd be more creative for it - make it a company event where readers can vote for their hero in vs. matches, then churn out issues alongside of "here's hypothetical fights going down".
Easton Flores
Hero vs Hero is always stupid because the outcomes of these fights are always disappointing, and we all know any "victor" is ultimately decided by the writer and not what makes sense in canon. That's one of the reasons why BvS failed, because the entire movie was centered around a dumbass fucking sparring match instead of doing World's Finest
Logan Sanders
>So the characters have to act out of character for these kinds of fights to happen in the first place,
Not really, Marvel was built on heroes fighting each other out of confusion and misunderstandings before they team up to fight the real villain. Misunderstandings that could easily be resolved by just talking to each other like rational adults. Things like Civil War, World War Hulk and AvX just took it to the next level by giving them real disagreements to resolve by hitting each other, and no external villain to team up against.
Nathaniel Taylor
Winning wouldn't even matter if the the loser put up a good enough fight beforehand, or there was enough weight behind it. Pyrrhic victories are also good. But that's all outside of the ability of most big two writers.
Grayson Campbell
Just because it started out like that doesn't mean it ought to continue like this. Anyway, I hope some Villain vs Villain thing comes along next.
Liam Wright
>Anyway, I hope some Villain vs Villain thing comes along next.
A villain vs villain event with the heroes caught in the middle of their war, or another Acts of Vengeance style villain team up would make for an event with some variety to the usual formula. But Marvel heroes are never going to stop fighting each other for stupid, avoidable reasons.