Omnipotence thread

What of The Endless? They’re not so much “Gods” but facts of existence personified

Time to pull a recreators and let the fictional being come to the real world, and get revenge and kill their creators. I would love for my creations to break free and try to kill me. It would be like Shin Megami Tensei. If I will, the cycle will start again, but if they win, this universe is theirs to do as they please.

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Has anyone but Starlin (and Gruenwald) ever used Eternity's sister Infinity?

Yeah, Ewing.

Also, continuing trailer discussion:

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I view reality warping as the absolute highest form of telekinesis. Thus, the power of the reality warper directly depends on their willpower. If two reality warpers try to warp an object into something it's initially not, the warper with the higher willpower will be the one transforming it at the end. Especially if they're battling, the one with a weaker willpower will not be able to bend reality to their will as effectively as the one with a higher willpower.

I would probably just bend my will to infinite, imprint myself in fiction, and cast a void spell to banish their power from all life. Depending on how omnipotent I felt after that, I could see myself creating the infinity stones to see if the other was actually willing to use six fragments of my own free will to try to continue their battle with me. The ensuing chaos would be highly entertaining, since any use of the infinity stones is really just me extending the reach of my own free will by defending my own ability to protect the free will of others. Can't beat a reality bender that wages its wars in public, because it's never more than one bend from restoring normality.

Goddammit, Tommy, are you looking for more characters to irrationally hate?

Are ther Yea Forums works similar to Re:creators? I've read stuff like Marvel 1985 And Animal Man and was wondering if there's more.

I always assumed the Living Tribunal was an extension of the One Above All.

Which series? Issues?

Yeah, what really changed my perspective was when I thought about the actual scale of omnipotence. There is no upper limit. You have to do everything manually. Quite literally, the "thing" you're doing is "every thing." It's not even quantifiable. The numbers of ways to fuck up is truly infinite. It's literally easier to create a tool to balance the mystical properties of free will. It's literally just a tool from that perspective because the omnipotence remains omnipotent and can continue to "grow" beyond it. At least up to the Nemesis point I guess.

I can't remember exactly, sorry.

Is that still Adam Warlock?

No, he was killed by Chaos and Order in Ultimates2, replaced by Logos, then reassembled as a new Living Tribunal by the end of it. Adam Warlock was reborn from the Soul Stone.

Rereading some '90s cosmic stuff and digging into older cosmic stuff, I realized that Eternity has better depth and development than I think anyone's ever given him credit for. He changes pretty dramatically after Infinity Gauntlet and goes from being very calm and confident to anxious and paranoid after the rug is pulled out from under him during the event. I just assumed he was always that way until I read some older stuff involving him.

Also, I've never seen this story come up before in a cosmic thread, but it was really interesting.

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Who has done this?

>LT is really the top of the pyramid but believes that there must be someone above him as his belief in order demands an absolute authority.

Is Shulkie lust?

You should take a gander at At Swim Two Birds (and Flann O'brien's output as a whole)

Getting your ass beat by a purple man will do that to you.

Post-Secret Wars (2015) Living Tribunal was never 616 Adam. Also, Alternate Adam/Living Tribunal came back at the end of that run because one of Adam's powers is resurrection.

I always hated these kind of characters
They're simply bad and writers always have to come up with reasons why they don't solve all problems
And sooner or later, some ass muncher, some fucking incompetent retard, will run out of ideas and will create a villain that one shots said character, to raise the stakes. And by then nothing makes sense, the in-universe logic gets completely raped for a cheap shock moment
I only wish bad things on these people

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I could've swore Ewing confirmed it was him, since around the time Ultimates2 came out, Infinity Finale was a thing.

The alternate Adam becomes the Living Tribunal in Infinity Revelation, it's also the story where 616 Adam gets resurrected from his most recent death.

That's kind of why I made this thread; if we can better understand omnipotence as a concept, we can better understand the limits of power creep and never have another DBZ incident.

>to be lazy about creation
If you're gonna run a reality, you NEED to set up parameters for it to run itself. The more you try to do everything by hand the more chances you have to overlook something or get something a little off, and that destroys countless lives.

That's what happened in Freakzoid.

Exactly.

If an omniscient entity were to read this thread, they would inevitably experience it as a formal proof that omniscience isn't required for moral creation of life.

If it didn't read this thread then it wasn't omniscient.

Tribunal’s puppet,aster is confirmed as non omnipotent rather recently.

Get shit on powerlevelfags.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Maker
astro.sunysb.edu/fwalter/AST389/TEXTS/StarMaker.pdf

Here’s some fast notes on this entity and what it thinks about.
forums.spacebattles.com/threads/weakest-thing-that-can-beat-god-from-star-maker.619897/
There you go for a hypothesized omnipotent’s Psychology. Extra great since the story itself delves into what might as well be two of them. The group consciousness of all life in our universe attaining immeasurable intellect and unity and the omnipotent entity born from nothing that experiments with stuff which they end up connecting back to.

Also, see: Entity POV chapters from Worm for a less objectively omnipotent (since they’re not omnipotent) but still and eldritch and plain nauseatingly all powerful POV that might as well be.

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Well, omniscience and omnipotence aren't synonymous.

>Nipples the size of galaxies.
Just imagine...

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I much prefer Ewing's interpretation of TOAA as the Gestalt of the writers and editors, who have a power beyond everything in the story to change or push things towards what they want, well ahead of the characters. Starlin's Infinity Conflict is, eh, problematic in some ways by implying TOAA is a character in itself prone to manipulation.

What episode?

Have you actually read an ongoing for the character you posted? Be honest.

What did the art look like?

Character goes on mad quest to gain cosmic awareness, rampaging across the Marvel universe in a huge crossover event.

The heroes strive to stop him, fearful of what he might do with such incredible power.

Turns out he just want cosmic awareness so he can fully perceive and comprehend Infinity's infinite, cosmic boobies.

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The one with Cosgrove's girlfriend. She was just a normal woman before Freakazoid got involved and the show had to adjust reality to be more exciting.

>Turns out he just want cosmic awareness so he can fully perceive and comprehend Infinity's infinite, cosmic boobies.
It truly caught Wendell by surprise when he got cosmic awareness with the exact same result.

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Our character runs afoul of Thanos on his quest for cosmic awareness.
After a brief tussle and a brief dialogue Thanos lets him go.
When asked why, the Mad Titan simply says, "I can appreciate his motives."

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The only interesting comic I've read with an omnipotent character was the original Ion story (where Kyle Rayner absorbs all of the lantern power and basically becomes god). He would continue superheroing for a while, preventing everything bad that happened anywhere in the galaxy/universe/whatever, down to the smallest mishaps. And then he quit, because he realized that by eliminating all negative consequences of peoples' actions he made their actions and whole lives irrelevant: he was no longer protecting people, but keeping them as pets.

MFW I realize the Fourth is where all the Kirby Space-God stuff is.

>The Fourth World
>The Pilgrim
>Gone to DC
>yfw when he comes back when the Eternals come back with an ongoing on Marvel

I'd just assume full tactical reset of the entire playing field. Make it so nobody falls into a mystical trap set eons ago by some other mystic faggot. (This includes summary deletion of all prophecies anyone believes in.)

Either that or envy, since Hulk mentioned her transformation was what she wanted the world to see her ass.

Ironically, this doesn't work anymore since TOAA has an opposite.

Pure terror

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Kek.

>eldritch and plain nauseatingly all powerful
Thanks for the links. And yes, that qualifies. Eldritch stuff is half the problem.

Like COIE, if you stick around for a few hours I'll post a snap of the comic cover

Bumps for anons.

They're good in their own ongoings, if they have them. They're just awful outside of them.
Any time there's an event, or something, the smart writers keep these characters aside because they're fucking stupid to write for, but the stupid writers make them come out and get slapped around by the new bad guy
Here, read this

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Here's an even more egregious example
>Hey Mark, let's write shit about an alien race
>Skrull? Kree? Shi'ar???
>Nah let's create our own species
>Fine, but how do we make them threatening?
>Let's make them kill THE FUCKING LIVING TRIBUNAL

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Fuck Ewing for flooding the universe with more bullshit.

Hussie inserted himself as a creator-god but was already recognized beforehand.

I wonder what Batman would think about giving up that power to prevent bad stuff?

Wonder if anyone will write a story wich makes the characters notice how omnipotence has no meaning in this world where the mortals play around with cosmic beings like chess pieces. This is not even limited to Adam and Thanos, practically everyone once had the power to make Infinity and Eternity their bitch

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>"cosmology confuses me!!"
The Multiverses already existed, they just lacked names and definition. Plenty of previous stories in Marvel about the Multiverses collapsing on themselves before being reborn into the next, per each era.
And the last time it happened? Secret Wars. Infinity lapsed into Eternity, forging the Eighth Multiverse.

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what issue is this from? an old dr strange?

also i like eternity and galactus broship like in ultimates2 and like in Silver Surfer issue 18 where Galactus shows his true energy self to Eternity.

Also the JLA/Avengers crossover because in that page you posed it references the Two Brothers represent the DC Universe and the Marvel Universe. The Brothers were created during the Sixth Infinity by the two hooded characters (the Living Tribunal and the Spectre) When they merged they formed the Amalgam Universe.

All this stuff we're talking about here in this thread is why I don't understand how the Abrahamic religions are a thing in the Marvel and DC universes.
This and then everything else that happens.

At some point the world the heroes are involved in is far beyond anything the people on Earth would be ready to believe. I imagine most of the cosmic story arcs never really get communicated back to the people of Earth. Even if you wanted to tell people, who would be ready to listen? A lot of these plots by their nature involve lone protagonists trying to deal with the literal weight of the world on their own. In a world where people were actually aware enough to create competent governments to handle these threats we just end up with superheroes being hired and acting as security, military, etc.

For whatever reason, nobody wants to write a story where government is effective and meaningful.

is omniscience a necessity to omnipotence?

also the meta about psychology of omnipotent characters

when we try to understand the psychology of omnipotent characters, there seems to be a knee jerk reaction for two things.
dehumanizing the being into something more akin to a robot, or a physical law of the universe, becuase we cant really understand the motives of a being like that . So we assume that any action taken by the omniscient being MUST be taken, becuase we assume an all powerful being wouldn't have acted otherwise. so an action from an all powerful being seems more like a reaction to something, a disturbance in the status quo.

the second option is when considering actions from an omnipotent being, is that we may dehumanize ourselves.
this lends to us thinking the gods are insane, eldritch entities with no empathy at all. we often assume a certain narcissism about gods needing to eat and feed themselves, or even a solipsism where everything is littery a dream of said god. i think its becuase when we imagine having infinite power or all the power we assume that we no longer are considered human or meek, we have the power to do anything so decision like what to eat what to dress where to live all these things tied to survival.
but omnipotence is beyond survival, and it would be a matter of time till wish fullfillment would either end all of existance or get boring.
then you have all the other people, constantly challenging you, or asking you for help.
so you either put up with this bullshit or you go into hiding.
or maybe you just give up your powers by creating a pantheon of your own, or tossing the one ring into a volcano so no one can have this power ever again.
but hey now we are back to placing a human linear timelocked qualities on something that can literally transcend beyond time and space and possibly go through alternate realities.
its interesting that omnipotent being always seem subject to the laws of heirarchies.

also
do we assume that being omnipotent doesnt really require much effort.
like you're all powerful man,
fuck going to the gym.
i dont think we understand that being all powerful takes alot of effort.
maybe its a fuction of potential energy.
like its not about the amount of power you have
but rather how much power you can generate and store.
you still need to work to generate that power.
is omnipotence an inherent character trait, or is it more like an honorary title, becuase at some point in your trials you made it.
how do you delineate between ALL powerful and the MOST powerful?

hussie is also a complete joke in-universe

That's kind of when I was getting at with the OP. When I imagine trying to take responsibility for the cosmos, the living tribunal drops out to become a tool. No matter what structure you add to the system, the omnipotence remains the same. It's like we're missing something about the concept that becomes central to understanding the notion and it's just absent from our thoughts.

It actually reminds me of the idea that gods only have power so long as you believe in them. If that is true then doesn't that also imply that the belief that they rely on our belief the thing that limits them most? If we were to believe otherwise, wouldn't that more or less free them from the notion?

Something about omnipotence seems trickier to me than any trickster god we've ever imagined.
I tend to trace it all back to emotion. The concept of having to generate power is more or less just a form of motivation. When you take omniscience out of the equation, you really free up the entity to have their own distinct thoughts and feelings. From there, the concept of exploring limitation seems obvious, but at some point you'd also run out of reasons to limit yourself. The only thing more toxic to an omnipotent than their own doubt would be the concept of a creation loop. In the Marvel universe this is trivially divided out by the concept of Nemesis, leaving the one above all unrestricted from causality. By the time you're willing to take away all your free will while pursuing limitation, all you've really done is create something that isn't you, has a different personality and will. At that point it almost seems easier to give them their own perceptions as well. This makes for a really interesting cosmology when you think about Nemesis, because you can argue that she destroys herself for lack of feedback from TOAA as easily as you can argue that she did it because TOAA wanted her to. It's basically just cosmic writer's block.

Same questions apply to the other cosmics.

The voice/The Hand/The source/The Presence AKA Lucifer Dad from DC comics

maybe the thing about becoming all powerful is than you control unlimited reserves of power and energy.
maybe becoming
all
powerful
means you become
all
the power and energy.
so the concept of sqauring off against an omnipotent being is paradoxical in that you are litterally facing off something that is larger than yourself,
like to attack it would mean attacking you and so much more.
turns into a through the looking glass ,
you have to run faster than you can to move at all.

your post about belief also reminded me of a quote from robert anton wilson:
that a resource is anything that we can use.
and the unbound human imagination would think a world of finite resources ridiculous, becuase anything can be a resource if we put our mind to it.
maybe even the absence of everything.

more so maybe belief is tapping into energy instead of an exoenditure of it,

>Captain Atom: The Quantum Quest
Sorry for the ant sized image, but this the comic I actually have.

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>>Captain Atom: The Quantum Quest
Thank you.

No problem user

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It was quite enjoyable. But who is that Rasputin guy?

The power of trips compel me to tell you I have no idea, that's the only CA comic I have and I never cared to investigate further until you prompted me.

I actually really appreciate that perspective, thank you.

Bump.

Good posts

>what issue is this from? an old dr strange?

Defenders #92

>like in Silver Surfer issue 18 where Galactus shows his true energy self to Eternity.

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I cannot even BEGIN to get a hint of an understanding of this whole cosmic business.

So I won't even bother trying!

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this
style of
"writing"
is

fucking

annoy-

ing

Alright this thread's officially gone stale. Better fuckin question, where the fuck is my 10/10 bratty omnipotent goddess gf?

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She wasn't really omnipotent, she was just robustly honest to the point that she created an information singularity. Basically what happens when the character can completely control their own story. It's a special type of Mary Sue paradox.

I always found some of the stories with those characters interesting but fuck I can understand why they are so few of them. Most writers can't make a good stories using those characters and when they use them it's just to have them job to their OC or for pet character wanking purposes.

Living Tribunal getting killed every time he appeared for example.

What's the name of this artist? They draw the cutest Wendell.

That's Greg Capullo! He did most of the last arcs of this volume.
He also clearly enjoyed drawing Sersi and Moondragon...

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For the purposes of most of the story it's honestly a semantics difference. Imo "basically omnipotent" and "literally omnipotent" are effectively the same thing, and only really come into play when there are higher actually omnipotent beings interacting with the setting. Whenever that's not happening, the "effectively omnipotent" is omnipotent. Although that's just me using "reality warper with sufficient range" as an easy synonym.

>Greg Capullo
Fuuuuuuuuuck how did I not realize this before? And it's pretty obvious now that I see the faces.

His Wendell is probably my favorite version of the character.

im
glad

Q
for
Y O U
O
U

Why are Marvelfags so obsessed with both "grounded characters" and "omnipotent characters"?

Thanks i will

Because their respective settings allow for both, instead of having to constantly handwave it for the sake of plot. Rarely you'll see the In-Betweener involved in some mafia gang or Punisher bartering with The Living Tribunal to get his soul straightened out.

Right, like how every artist is omnipotent over the world they create. (Which is really just a subset of the fact that everyone has perfect domain over their own mind to think or imagine anything they care to think about.) In-canon I agree. From the reference frame of the real world the difference being semantic still means that the author is omnipotent over what it meant for the character to be omnipotent. In which case I still agree with you.

I'm pretty sure we had a mini about the Punisher serving defeating nigh-omnipotent cosmic beings a few months ago.

Also, are you sure about that? The same Black Panther that was getting his shit pushed by random terrorists in his own book was defeating Galactus at the same time in another. The Dr. Doom that got defeated by Luke Cage is the one that humiliated a bunch of Beyonders.

>I'm pretty sure we had a mini about the Punisher serving defeating nigh-omnipotent cosmic beings a few months ago.
I hope you're not talking about the dumb bullshit known as Cosmic Ghost Rider.
>Also, are you sure about that? The same Black Panther that was getting his shit pushed by random terrorists in his own book was defeating Galactus at the same time in another
That's different though, not Black Panther himself but the Ultimates, a team that was explicitly Multiversal in scope.
>The Dr. Doom that got defeated by Luke Cage is the one that humiliated a bunch of Beyonders.
And this isn't really the same thing either, Doom is demonstrably capable of mastering both magic and tech, silver age stuff doesn't compare with modern shenanigans.

>I hope you're not talking about the dumb bullshit known as Cosmic Ghost Rider.
Why not? You said that those Marvel settings don't ever interact, not that the readers should ignore it.

>That's different though, not Black Panther himself but the Ultimates, a team that was explicitly Multiversal in scope.
A team that was led by Black Panther.

And after defeating Galactus, Black Panther defeated Bast AND Logus. At the same time that he was getting his ass kicked by terrorists.

>And this isn't really the same thing either, Doom is demonstrably capable of mastering both magic and tech, silver age stuff doesn't compare with modern shenanigans.
Again, this is just you pretending that those things haven't happened. They have happened regardless, no matter how much you want to ignore it.

>instead of having to constantly handwave it for the sake of plot
If it's a good plot, I don't need an army of autists justifying every page.

>Why not?
Because that's only "Frank Castle" because Cates is a hack who didn't want people to think he was writing Deadpool instead.
>A team that was led by Black Panther
No, it was actually lead by Carol. The second installment was led by Ms. America.
>And after defeating Galactus, Black Panther defeated Bast AND Logus
Did you skim through it? Galactus was never "defeated", he was turned into Lifebringer, and Bast was never part of the deal, it was the White Tiger, the Primal Fear, who he didn't defeat, he became an Avatar of it in conceptual fight.
>Again, this is just you pretending that those things haven't happened.
No, simply saying that those things happened in a completely different context. You can't pretend current Doom is anywhere close to how he was originally conceived.

ITT: nobody has posted an actual Omnipotent character

Merged/synergistic characters or original ones?
Because if it's the latter, then Franklin Richards. If it's the former, then pic related.

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If a cosmic has to be used as a plot device, it should be because there's a legit metaphysical question to ask. Otherwise the meta falls flat and it just feels forced. Probably because at that point it really is forced.

Black hammer