It seems Scott Snyder has joined Grant Morrison in his hatred for the status quo

of course jimmy 'freakin' olsen is there for talia al tit's

This ending actually kind of pissed me off, since 99% of Morrison's run was "Batman is awesome and cool and the best" and then the final issue was "Batman is actually lame and childish and the worst" and my brain could not process the tonal whiplash.

She got better during Robin: Son of Batman

No rest or happiness for this man.

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You've got two opposing views on Batman: Batman is a product of Bruce Wayne's strengths vs Batman is a product of Bruce Wayne's weakness. Morrison is very much a fan of the first which is what you get for 99% of the run but the second view is the popular modern view and the end of his run is a meta commentary on that.

That status quo has just gone on too long. It's not fun anymore. There are no new stories for the character. Writers are exasperated by the fact that they simply cannot do anything interesting with him.

This is a cool page desu.
Snyder gets too much hate. He's a poor man's Morrison, but he has his moments.

I thought the most common view was that Bruce Wayne doesn't even exist as a being.

This is the take that began all this bullshit.

Not the Dark Knight Returns?

>He's a poor man's Morrison
He's a BROKE man's Morrison.

>Not the Dark Knight Returns
No. He found a higher purpose and a reason to live at the end of DKR.

Much like inexplicably blaming Watchmen and TDKR for the shitty grimdarkification writing of later comics, even though readers and writers who took to the most surface level elements of those comics in the first place did so because they were already intent on only seeking, absorbing and regurgitating those things to no greater purpose and anyone who actually reads the comics will recognize at no point do either glorify or encourage such a telling and are in fact a purposeful commentary against the failings found inherent to such a scenario that must be overcome, the fucking very idea that Beyond can be held accountable is absolute nonsense.

I'm not going to suggest Bruce and only Bruce is some sort of pillar like Waller and some Batman fans become deluded into thinking to imagine more than is there, but Beyond at least makes a point of showing how the world is worse off at least without people like Batman, Mr.McGinnis, Terry, etc. It doesn't belittle their contributions or efforts, it just illustrates they are up against powers and people too large or long lived to be easily overcome in one adventure, but that the attempt is still better than the resignation given what happens to even just those three mentioned when they reject responsibility in some fashion.
More to the point it showed us the world does move on, for better or worse, which many comics writers, whether making a plea for or against staples, are incapable in some way of doing.

This predisposition for blaming the predecessors or fans or characters for the failings of the present person holding the pen is asinine.
It's like a child blaming their parents for being a bad influence or allowing them to make their room a mess rather than accepting responsibility for being the constant source of their actions. And you'd best believe for all their chiding Snyder and King are the type who'd sooner just burn the house down than be made and seen to clean up after themselves.

Be fair here, people misread DKR a lot, so I wouldn't be surprised if there were people who actually thought it was bad end considering how many people missed the nuances of the Superman/Batman conflict in there.

Yeah. Bruce in DKR had retired after Jason's death and only comes back as Batman because society had gone to shit. In doing so he finds a higher purpose in teaching the lost and violent younger generation into becoming crime-fighting heroes as well as together with his new tropp planning the dethroning of the government.

Meanwhile Bruce in BB remains the eternal Batman in a never-changing Gotham after having pissed away all his chances of a happier and more fulfilling life, and because he can't be Batman anymore due to his ever-increasing debilitating health he begrudgingly takes in a helper in the guise of Terry, who becomes the new Batman with his support. Everything in his life is sad and he he himself is a miserable, bitter man.

Too bad Miller shat the bad hard with all the sequels, prequels, and side-quels, or whatever it is called.

I seriously hate how much fans worship these two for being snide deconstructionist fuckers who make people feel clever for "getting" pages like this

he had to work around dc editors and there love of status quo
>its not ok for morrison to do more then 1.5 years of dickbats but tom king has been ruining batman for over 3 years

That's because Tom King's just more of the usual misery porn for Batman and the usual BatCat shenanigans that the DC editors love to push.

midquel

this highlights one of many reasons why I decided the best way to handle the majority of the New 52 era was to pretend almost everything between the publication of Flashpoint and DC Rebirth just doesn't exist, it works out fairly well overall too, any references to things published between those points can be written off as being due to reality getting altered due to Dr Manhattan's meddling with reality at the end of Flashpoint(and very little from the New 52 era actually had any relevance once Rebirth happened anyways)

>and very little from the New 52 era actually had any relevance once Rebirth happened anyways
Oh, you sweet fool. Current DC is very much the New 52. Pretty much every other character aside from Superman are still their New 52 selves. The New 52 stories are still the ones mostly mattering and being references. Just a few pre-Flashpoint stories have been referenced and most of the times are empty references that don't really affect the larger continuity.

Well yeah he had DC editorial fucking him over

>I thought the most common view was that Bruce Wayne doesn't even exist as a being
That's 'Batman as a product of Bruce Wayne's weakness.' The idea that Bruce Wayne is broken by his childhood trauma and the only way for him to survive is by adopting a persona that comits slow suicide by enacting vengeance fist fighting an opponent that can't ever be beaten (crime.) Tom King gets a lot of shit (deservedly) for his characterization of Batman as a PTSD junkie but it's just the inevitable result of Frank's TDKR deconstruction.
And normies are eating that shit up

>Oh, you sweet fool. Current DC is very much the New 52. Pretty much every other character aside from Superman are still their New 52 selves. The New 52 stories are still the ones mostly mattering and being references. Just a few pre-Flashpoint stories have been referenced and most of the times are empty references that don't really affect the larger continuity.
what I mean is that continuity barely matters at all in present DC, so not reading the New 52 era stuff doesn't really matter, especially since they'll usually recap anything that comes up from that time if it's of any importance

>so not reading the New 52 era stuff doesn't really matter
I must preface this by saying I'm not a John'sfag
Didio is pushing his 52 canon hard and he's doing it by just soft rebooting anything he doesn't like in these little recaps that only seem to reference nu52 events. You really don't need to have read anything nu52 because you're getting it again, just mixed in with new stories.

>Batman and Robin will never die!
>Robin dies miserably

Well with a fundamental level of reading comprehension you would be able to understand that his run that seeded nearly a decade's worth of Batman stories was unceremoniously taken out back and shot instead of being allowed to end on its own terms because DC is run by the Gentry and needed to boost their profit margins.

>I must preface this by saying I'm not a John'sfag
You said that, but it's obvious you suck that hack's dick.

God, does anyone have that image comparing Snyder's endless villain monologues with Morrison summing up Batman and Talia's relationship with like two sentences?

>Morrison summing up Batman and Talia's relationship with like two sentences?
There is literally not a single person in this world less qualified to talk about Bruce and Talia's relationship than Grant Morrison

I just consider Grant's run over with Batman and Robin/Return of Bruce Wayne.

Well you know how it goes. If you dislike anything Morrison has ever written it's just because you don't get it.

Same desu. Batman Inc was kind of a failed experiment IMO.

You don't get it.

Batman Inc. volume one is the culmination of everything he was building for seven years and is probably the high water mark for the run outside of Batman and Robin.

Scott Snyder is what happens when you allow an overgrown Batfag to make the entire line his own fanfiction plots.

Hence all the "Batmen are teh greatest threat hur hur hur durr" we've had since Metal.

At least Doomsday Clock feels like it's trying to capture the DC universe.

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>Scott Snyder is what happens when you allow an overgrown Batfag to make the entire line his own fanfiction plots
The problem isn't that Snyder is a batfag, the problem is and has always been that Synder is an idiot who thinks he's a genius.

just looks like Snyder aping Morrison again because he's an unoriginal hack

>Didio is pushing his 52 canon hard and he's doing it by just soft rebooting anything he doesn't like in these little recaps that only seem to reference nu52 events. You really don't need to have read anything nu52 because you're getting it again, just mixed in with new stories.
as crappy as current DC is mostly, it's still overall better than most of what little I read that had come out during the New 52 era

personally though I think DC needs an metaphorical enema, fire 99% of their writers(and like 60% of their artists), replace them with new guys without egos, get a new editorial staff who will do their fucking jobs(we need some Starlins), and do a hard reboot with a new continuity where every book has to be kept in line with every other one, with strict and hard continuity

if it's not obvious I have an extremely low opinion of most writers and artists currently working at either of the Big 2 both on a personal level and professional one

>I just consider Grant's run over with Batman and Robin/Return of Bruce Wayne.
agreed, same with any other book that continued after Flashpoint without getting fully reset(seriously not full rebooting the Batfamily and Green Lantern books was probably the single biggest mistake they made with New 52, it resulted in continuity being a mess from the very beginning)

He's an idiot who cares more about nerd cred than actually knowing anything about what he's writing.

>"It never ends."
>"And I don't think it ever will..."
Pretty much the perfect ending for Batman

>we need some Starlins
mean to say Shooter here

The thing that pisses me off about that is that James Bondesque Spy stuff really isn't any less juvenile than superheroes, like... at all. Those stories are STILL about preserving the status quo, the only thing that makes it seem more mature is that the costumes are more restrained and they shoot people.

Wonder Woman has been rebooted at least twice since Nu52

Yes, one time time during Rebirth where she was rebooted by Greg Rucka to her pre-Flashpoint version, and then again following his departure back to the New 52 version by James Robinson (Dan Didio pretty much dictated the book direction).