So, I've been reading Frank Miller's Daredevil for a bit, and then this happened. What the fuck is even going on anymore?
What do you guys think about Frank Miller's Daredevil?
Frank Miller's Daredevil - Demon Archers oh my
Jordan Hill
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Luis Baker
Pretty much set up the modern interpretation of the character, and still holds up in a lot of ways. The only run that comes close is Bendis'.
And yeah, admittedly the run starts to falter a bit at the tail end when Miller gets a bit too invested in the shit with The Hand and the mysticism surrounding it. He seems to have been aware of it too since he stopped his run not long after and gave it a more 'grounded' finale between Daredevil and Bullseye.
Hudson Torres
overrated mediocrity
Jeremiah Cox
The Hand and Elektra were never good, but Miller desperately wanted to push his own OC’s. Which was a damn shame because he truly excelled when writing street level stuff. As he began to focus more and more on his own invented lore he completed derailed the train he built himself.
Unfortunately he also started a meme where later DD writers would try desperately to make their runs ‘dark’ and ‘gritty’ to mimic Born Again, leaving you with schlock like Echo and Milla Donovitch’s non-death.
Christopher Butler
I honestly quite like it. It's a great battle in the mind section even if it's a little off-kilter from the "gritty" stuff. People complain whether stuff's too gritty or too campy, but I like the Hand stuff for what it was. Campy, but well-written imo.
I'm a huge fan of the run as a whole, and I think this kind of stuff helped the introspective moments be entertaining.
Luke Lopez
It's Miller adding Japanese shit to Dardevil. It's fucking everywhere now, but you have to remember that in the 80s, adding ninjas and manga shit to your comics was new cutting edge never before seen shit.
Also yeah things get a little crazy there. Same goes for Nocenti, the Typhoid Mary-Inferno shit transitions so seamlessly and reads like Matt tripping balls more than anything else. It's good shit when Daredevil gets batshit crazy back then.
Tyler Hernandez
Agreed. I posted this. The street-level stuff was good, but adding some variety's nice. The OP pic was a dream sequence type thing. A similar thing was done in one of the McKenzie/Miller issues, but this escalated it
Wyatt Powell
I'll take "Shit that I really did not expect" for $400.
Eli Moore
Elektra is the best foil to Matt that ever existed in the franchise and the work Miller did with her in DD and in her GNs are some of the best female-centered stories in superhero comics at large.
Robert Jenkins
She only works as a representation of Matt’s vice, like a human temptation. As a person she’s as bland as 1% milk.
Ethan Bennett
Well, it's a shame that I've been spoiled about what's happening next since I was a little kid, but here we go anyway.
Jose Ward
Millers' run is fun solely to see the weird blend of late-bronze age bizarreness mixed in with the grim and gritty vibes that'd become vogue in the late eighties.
Bentley Sanchez
It's almost like Golden Age Spirit on crack.
Luke Hernandez
I got spoiled on that in 2003, and didn't read the run till, 2015/16. Still enjoyed it.
Yep. It wasn't late enough that everything had to ditch being weird and fun. There was a tone, but using the bizarre still lead to interesting stuff that didn't pull you out of it
Easton Price
Good lord, I haven't enjoyed fanservice this much since the Batman/Alien crossover.
Dylan Harris
>fanservice
Are you reading this as you come back to the thread? If so, I think you're gonna enjoy the upcoming stuff. Unspoiler with caution
Liam Fisher
I am.
I'll keep updating as I find stuff I enjoy or find worth noting.
However, I'm not going to post spoilers.
Btw, I like to imagine that Frank Castle meeting Bullseye is at the same time when Castle is incarcerated during Punisher MAX.
Mason Harris
This shit is so good.
William Cruz
>adding ninjas and manga shit to your comics was new cutting edge never before seen shit.
lmao, everyone was adding ninjas to their comics back then.
Adam Clark
Well, this ain't good for Matty.
Nicholas Moore
>MAX Bullseye
Eh, I prefer to take things in their current era or continuity. I like the idea of the 616 versions meeting more, but that's cos I'm a 616fag
David Robinson
I don't know if it's due to the fact that I only started seriously reading comics last year, and before that focused completely on manga, but It's really hard for me to get used to the whole mulitiple timelines thing.
I just read one run of a series, and that becomes the entire character for me.
For The Punisher, it's MAX, for Daredevil it's becoming Frank Miller, for She Hulk, it's the John Bryne stuff, and for Spider-Man it's the original 1960s run, and a little bit of the Todd McFarlane stuff.
Jace Allen
AW YEAH FRANK
FUCK 'EM UP!
Jace Miller
That's fair. I can't exactly fault you if you're new to it. Stuff like Slott and Byrne She-Hulk aren't so much alternate timelines as same universe but with sliding time. Stuff like regular Spider-Man and Ultimate Spider-Man are your alternate timelines.
For me, Silver Age FF is the definitive one tho, and for DD, so far I agree with Miller. It's a case of what you're into in that sense. I got into capes through cartoons so I always had a loose sense of what the original material was till I got into it
Joseph Price
Speaking of runs, what X-Men run should I check out to experience as much Cheesecake Rogue as I can?
I grew up with the 90s cartoon as a kid and ADORED it.
Wyatt Butler
>kid has a bad trip
>jumps out of window and dies
How the hell did this get approved by the Comics Code, or were they much more lenient than I thought they were?
Anthony Walker
The usual ones people mention for that are Claremont and Jim Lee's tenures iirc
They were more lenient by this point. This was about 10 years after Amazing Spider-Man #96-98 (the three issues published without the CCA stamp in protest of being told to put out anti-drug comics without being able to depict drug use)
Also, that Green Lantern/Green Arrow issue where Speedy's hooked on drugs came out the same year as those ASM issues. Shit loosened a bit
Landon Ramirez
Honestly, that's a fairly sensible way to read a lot of characters, in Marvel anyway. Wouldn't reccomend it for characters like Superman or Batman. Even with Wonder Woman you'd miss out on some neat stuff.
Liam Sullivan
>I just read one run of a series, and that becomes the entire character for me.
Jacob Evans
Ah, I've heard about that Claremont guy multiple times! I'll be sure to check him out once i've dealt with college stuff.
Concerning the Code, I had the Impression from reading "Maximortal" that it was this horrible censorship of even the slightest stuff.
I'm not that big of a DC fan outside of Vertigo.
I absolutely adored Preacher.
Concerning Batman, all I've really read of his are Year One, Death in the Family, The Alien crossover, The Killing Joke and The Ultimate Evil.
Speaking of DC, what would you recommend I read of "The Spirit". I read the WWII era comics by Will Eisner as a kid, and I was wondering where I start with the modern stuff.
I gotta start somewhere.
Jaxon Stewart
>Concerning the Code, I had the Impression from reading "Maximortal" that it was this horrible censorship of even the slightest stuff.
This is correct, but certain parts got more lax over time. OTOH, there was some dumb shit cbr.com
Read "The Spirit Returns" by Matt Wagner, published by Dynamite. I've heard good things about the follow-up, The Spirit: The Corpse Makers, but I'm yet to read it.
Nolan Martinez
>unhooked phone was too sexy
...
How?
Thanks for the Spirit tip!
Christopher Long
No idea, also no prob. The CCA were fucking weird. Ok, I gotta go. Got stuff on tomorrow, but have a good one, user
William Diaz
I need to be going to bed as well.
It's 3.30 AM in Euroland.
Have a great night, user, and thanks for the help!
Julian Anderson
People forget that the CCA weren't an official ratings board or anything. At best, it was self-regulation in the industry by a third party: you could release a comic that wasn't stamped by the CCA, it just meant that most places wouldn't stock it out of fear that it'd have 'deviant' material in it since they hadn't approved it. The CCA basically ceased being relevant in the industry the minute Marvel realized that their comics were popular enough and selling well enough that they could basically ignore the CCA when they didn't approve of what they were publishing.
Jackson Howard
Only if you haven't read Elektra: Assassin and Elektra Lives Again, and only if you're making the most uncharitable, lazy reading of the Elektra saga in DD.
She's not (strictly) a representation of Matt's vice, she's a foil who saw the death of her father and went down the opposite path that Matt took.
Yes, she has the whole stoic loner thing going, but it's a little questionable that she should more flack for it than all the other gruff comic dudes that do.
Nathaniel Nelson
Jim Lee X-Men, also after Claremont leaves, pretty much any 90s issue that focuses on her, like her road trip with Bobby.
Jacob Thomas
The off-the-hook phone means. in context, that they didn't want any disturbances while fucking.
Nicholas Ward
Yeah I was like 12 reading this and I thought it was a bit odd that there was a bizarro kingpin living in the sewers who happened to have kidnapped the real Kingpin's waifu
Oliver Myers
Is it really that weird when the Morlocks are a thing
Julian Thomas
>How the hell did this get approved by the Comics Code, or were they much more lenient than I thought they were?
youtube.com
Kids on drugs jumping out of windows was PSA material
Oliver Wright
The weird part is not the tribe of CHUDs so much as the mirror image bad guy, like a video game sprite recolor, even as a kid it took me out a bit. Like what's this guy's story, why's he here, why does he look like Kingpin. Of course the comic never answers that, he's just a miniboss.