Creator makes a character to mock another creator

Rorschach And Alan Moore

Wtf i like king now

Kirby regretted this later in life you know.

Kirby just didnt have some guts. There is a famous kirby interview where the host invited stan lee to join in. Before stan was called in kirby was trashtalking him but at the moment stan appeared kirby just remained silent

When Grant Morrison introduced himself as a character during his Animal Run, John Ostrander would later unceremoniously kill him off in one of his Suicide Squad issues.

I don't think that was malicious, Morrison was still with the company at the time

Ostrander probably called him up and they had a laugh about it

Link? Sounds uncomfy.

I don't think Ostrander's intent was malicious either. He probably just wanted to poke fun at Morrison.

youtu.be/A1yJZKDwIRE

That fact just makes that whole issue even more uncomfortable.

Yikes

?

The interviewer is a pest.

This one's great, and probably quite accurate.

I obviously can't comment on the salary thing but when did Stan ever take credit for any part of an issue that wasn't writing?

Everybody remembers Funky

Nobody remembers Houseroy, which is an even more scathing parody.

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Byrne is the pettiest motherfucker ever. I don't even like Shooter as a writer, and he I get the issues people like Englehart and Moench had with him as a boss (though somebody needed to fucking reign Englehart in) but Byrne's just a fucking asshole.

This whole archive:
cbr.com/meta-messages-archive/

>quite accurate
Imagine actually believing this

>Bob oksner
Literally who

>the jim starlin's satyre of the big two corporations
Kek

On color for the sake of it

Attached: Stan Lee.jpg (1280x1901, 1.29M)

Well, there's that thing of crediting himself as a writer and putting his own name in big bold letters before every single comic, even though he was mostly an editor.
The comic is an exaggeration, of course, since it's a cartoon. I don't think he walked around dressed as a superhero either.

Tangentially related but someone should post that Twitter thread from Jim Sterankko about the time he met Bob Kane at a con and slapped the fucker out of general god damned principle

>with Warren Reece

Oh SHIT! This will be good! That guy is a fucking LOONY!

This.

I think Kirby was pissed AT Stan but he really hated Roy

Moviecasual pls leave

The comic itself lays out the problem: Stan would write overbearing prose over a completed work and then call himself the writer, often in large print. The salary jokes were aimed more at both the industry in general and how artists would get screwed and sweet talked to no avail.

It's exaggerated, of course, but not inaccurate. The book was written by Nelson Bridwell, a MAD satirist, and it's very much in the magazine's vein of parody.

Recurring artist for DC's comedy books, and some hero stuff occasionally, mostly Superman. Dude was pretty damn good.

Take the red pill.

But he doesn't shove his name in all the comics, nor he does movie cameos so he sucks.

>book written by this guy
>bob oksner is the most famous person behind this pic
Oh the irony

>DC comedy books
Wow what a legendary artist

Unironically this
Tommy pls dont even start

>stanfags still butthurt

Not only that, on Destroyer Duck by Steve Gerber, Kirby drew Byrne as a spineless, castrated sycophant.

Attached: Cogburn John Byrne.jpg (2979x2250, 3.7M)

didn't he blow his own foot off

>He doesn't know about MAD magazine

The comic Pencil Head was pretty much nothing but 5 issues of this.

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Though this Frank Miller part stood out to me the most.

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>delusional Kirby kultist

damn, he was pulling no punches with this one

Yes? That was DC's bread and butter in the 50s. He wasn't the biggest name to ever exist, but he was doing damn well for himself.

Dont be so mad about it

user dont project your delusion and casualness on unknown people on internet.

Byrne nuked shooter's hometown in Starbrand

>eating grapes rn
Feels good.

Oh hi Laddersis, how did you enjoy Crapstain Marvel?

Tommy/Ladderbro doing full monologue here

They are Yea Forums‘s Taoist sigil, yin and yang, forever chasing each other.

Based casual retard

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so, who're the people here apart from Miller? I'm guessing Brian Azzarello, his wife(whose name I don't remember) and I'm not sure about the big guy - Kirkman?

Fuck off true casual

holy shit, I never made the connection
this was before Millar & Morrison spat

Honestly Kirby was being too kind here.

Not sure. I believe the story takes place in the artist's career during the 90s but I don't recall who everyone is a sound-like parody of.

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JEEPERS

>you have manga eyes
Weebs btfo forever.

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The fuck is this from?

Oni Color special, I think

Oni Press Color Special 2001.

One press color special, it had the two cops from powers investigating a comics murder mystery.

Fucking hell...

I think i know who girby, bitko and gromita are. But who is dil krane?

I assume it’s Bill Keane, the Family Circus guy

>People don't know about Gil Kane
Where the fuck am I?

Surrounded by normies in hell.

I just want an excuse to post this. I'll take it.
youtube.com/watch?v=RmLFGWAyajU

What the hell happened between Morrison and Millar?

Morrison hates edgyness, he never shuts up about it.

From what the rumors say Millar might have stolen ideas from Morrison without crediting him. The ending of Red Sun is one example people bring up.

Are there any actual facts to support this or is it Morrison fans thinking that he's the only one who can come up with time travel fuckery?

Wait, I thought Morrison gave that ending to Millar, after discarding it as a possible ending for All-Star Superman?

Morrison ghost wrote some of The Authority because Millar was sick. Grant mentioned it and Mark got pissy.

Just imagine waking up one morning and finding the guy who wrote and drew the comics you loved as a kid, calling you a spineless, dickless, gutless clone of him. Fucking brutal.

No rips at Bendis?

>Is the most powerful member of the Authority
>Refuses to cave under pressure and kill Jenny
It's not a very brutal parody.

I wonder about the Kirby parody though. What made Millar so mad at Jack?

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>the law

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>bendis
How?
How could he write this not knowing he would commit the same sins?

I remember years ago, someone said if marvel did Identity Crisis, it would need to have Sue Storm get raped by Mr.Fish

Millar is an edgelord who somehow made it big into comics.

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God damn I hate Kitty.

Goddamn, roasting fellas like that on television outta be illegal.

No he did not.

>Defending a faggot who shits on Bob Oksner

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Any examples of people working for DC roasting Bob Kane while he was still alive?

Is this Goodwin telling this story?!?

Stan Lee wasn't even in a position of power or an editor when Bob Oksner worked with him

They kvetched about proper credit but when Millar started making Hollywood money thats when Morrison REALLY began to hate him.

It’s all allegorical.

No they sucked his dick till the end, it's only in the last five years that the Kane estate has allowed "...with Bill Finger" to be included in the Batman credits.

Notice it's "with" and not "and", implying that Finger only helped. Which I guess is technically true. He helped create 99% of Batman.

Within the context of the Omega Sanction, which is meant to be a giant lie. He also shows that Kirby made the story and Funky/Stan just retells it.

You people are fucking retards who cant even understand a hack like King. Just kill yourselves.

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Petty sons of bitches.

Fuck off false cap marvel

Yea Forums doesnt read comics.

Who is he referring to?

Be quiet Tom. We know you are giant stan lee fag

Yet after kirby died freaking Byrne claimed to be a fan and even talked about Kirby in a docuseries about Kirby.

There's also this
>comicbookhistorians.com/the-comic-book-relationship-between-jack-kirby-and-john-byrne/

Byrne is the biggest hack and he's also pretty autistic. Reminder that he compared people reffering to "speech balloons" as "speech bubbles" to people calling black people niggers.

>There are lots of people who call black people “niggers.” Are both terms “right”? You seem to have missed the rather important point that my response indicated roughly the same percentage of fans and pros use the improper terms for various elements of what we do—but that percentage does not approach a balance. It is not that roughly half say “balloon” and half say “bubble.” It is that some say “bubble” and they are wrong.

He is a lot autistic but kirby was too

It's even better if the parody sticks around long enough to get character development and become something of their own.

>He is a lot autistic
lol

It's GIL KANE being referenced, you fucking dumbasses

Byrne's a company man to boot so obviously when he was still employed at Marvel he took it as his duty to shit on anybody criticizing the company.

I don't understand how anyone could hate Roy the Boy.

Kirby hated everybody

Holy fuck, I'm reading through this. I didn't realize that Mike Carlin was defending McKeever as being a good choice for the Lofficiers' Elseworlds German Impressionist trilogy, and that Roy Thomas wasn't happy with McKeever's inclusion.

Maybe it was jealousy because he could never hope to write as well as Roy did.

People forget Millar, Morrison and Ennis almost killed 2000AD in the 90s.

Morrison did give the ending of Red Son to Millar. That wasn't what he was upset about. His being upset was more to do that he was feeling that he was carrying Millar's workload, and other things. It came to a head when he was telling people at a Wildstorm party that he ghost-wrote an issue of The Authority, and Millar had to confirm that.

I have great admiration for Roy. He is responsible as EIC for 70's Marvel

>Byrne is the biggest hack
what makes him a hack, precisely?

Frank Miller should be obvious. The bald guy is Ted McKeever since this is his sort of autobiography. And the big guy is Bob Schreck.

It is. This was about McKeever's time at DC, and Goodwin was at DC by then.

Goodwin was EIC at Marvel from 1976 to 1977. That being said, Kane did do some covers for Marvel after that. But his Marvel output was vastly reduced for sure, I think it was only covers.

I think this explains what Chaykin was talking about in an interview where he said that Gil had ethical issues. Well that and his Hey Kids! Comics series.

>I wonder about the Kirby parody though. What made Millar so mad at Jack?

He isn't mad at him. He just thought it was hilarious to do, because The Authority was about going over-the-top and being shocking.

Holy fuck this book is amazing. If you thought that was harsh on Miller, wait till you see how he was pretty savage toward Carl Potts, Marcus McLaurin, Roy Thomas, Paul Levitz, and Dan Didio. Also technically Bob Schreck as well.

Looking at the comics.org listing for that issue,

Crank Filler = Frank Miller
Poodwaddle = Ted McKeever
Marconi = Ann Nocenti
big bearded guy is Bob Schreck

Convince me Millar doesn't.

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Bumpino

Fun fact: it was supposed to be "Mark Millar Flicks Goats", a reference to how old comics couldn't use the word flick, because the "li" in the middle could look like a "u" due to the low-quality printing. Marvel wouldn't allow it, so a compromise was reached.

Nice job, Clint.

I knew McKeever in the 90's he lived in south FL and used to come to the comic shop when he wanted an ego stroke and all he did was talk shit and rumors about EVERYBODY in the business, even the ones he was working with at the time. He outed Rachel Pollack as a transsexual and called her "a horse-voiced beast" and basically ranted on & on about how he and MAYBE Moebius were the only true geniuses in comics.

He stopped coming to our store when he got pissed that he showed up on new comic day and we were too busy for him.

Damnit this was funny. I can't believe Ennis of all people would shit the bed with 2000 A.D.

Fuck off mousecuck

How tho? They are like the best team you could have in the 90's.

It's like going to /fit/ and not knowing who Arnold is.

>*late 90's
Writing comes with some growing pains.

Hey I live near here, Toy Tokyo moved away from the Japanese restaurant. And the restaurant was burnt down to the ground.

You just gotta love- FLICK FALCON

>Hasn't read a DC silver age book in his life

>MCUdrone

You remind of that scene in the movie Life where Martin Lawrence reads the letter the other inmate got, and it's nothing but had news about his parents dying and his wife leaving him.

>ranted on & on about how he and MAYBE Moebius were the only true geniuses in comics.
Wew lad. I’m not sure if I hope this is real or not.

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youtube.com/watch?v=f63MZR3npsw

Oh Stan. You cheeky motherfucker.

>about how he and MAYBE Moebius were the only true geniuses in comics.
>>MAYBE Moebius
how the fuck could you stand to be around such a fucking tool, holy hell

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He hasnt missed anything

Fuck off Tommy
And nothing of value was lost. If people associate silver age with marvel there is a reason

>Rachel Pollack
Did she cast a spell on him?

You're probably more retarded than the person who drew that page.

Well two people did die in that explosion, bodies were never found either, Family and friends created a grave marker to honor them.
Soon after someone bought the plot of land and got rid of the grave markers, whenever someone puts it up it’s gets torn down.

There was a time Jim Sterranko met Kane at a con in the 70's and Kane was all buddy buddy with him despite never once meeting each other before that. Apparently Kane was sniffing his own farts before he put his hand on Sterranko's shoulder for a creepy long time, said something along the lines of "we're alike, you an I", and just left. Sterranko, being a rough and tumble New York kind of guy, took great offense to this. So the next day he hunted Kane down, and when he found him about the get on an elevator, he walked right up to the guy and slapped him across the face, then simply walked away. Pretty sure Sterranko was doing the Nick Fury comics at the time but it was nice to know someone in the industry wasn't putting up with Kane's bullshit

Wait the rooster is a gay bar.

Whatever helps you sleep, Ladderbro

Well, he was young, inexperienced(and smoked pot).
Apparently, he found working on Hellblazer a better learning experience, as the editors gave him more guidance.

Most of Yea Forums has never bothered to look for the better artists and writers of the Gold/Silver Age. If they've even read any comics from that period, they're almost always going to be mainstream superhero books anyway. They might vaguely recognize Curt Swan's name or Bob Kane, but they've never even heard of Sheldon Mayer or Ruth Atkinson, let alone strip artists like Al Capp or George Herriman. Getting upset at a lack of knowledge of a practically dead, unrespected medium's history is silly.

I thought Kane lightly slapped Sterranko in the first encounter, so Sterranko later came back and slapped him hard?

>I'd hadn't encountered Kane in my travels, but at one rockin' SDCC, an associate asked me if I wanted to meet him, and walked me into a hallway. There he was, in a small group of people, wearing patent-leather shoes-- and an ASCOT, like he was Vitamin f******g Flintheart in a Dick Tracy cartoon. For years, I'd heard how he'd taken credit for Bill Finger's contributions (in addition to half his pay) and other despicable tales from his associates. But nothing aces an in-person encounter. We were introduced and Kane began talking about my Batman chapter in the HISTORY OF COMICS, which treated him--and everyone else--very respectfully. He felt I credited Robinson & Finger (both of whom I knew intimately) too much. Kane (aka Kahn) was beyond an intolerable ass as pompous as they come. I bit my tongue while he regaled us with his many achievements. The group was waiting for an elevator, which they stepped into when the door opened. Our conversation ended, but not before he said: "See you later, Jim, baby," and cuffed me across the face--like some rat-pack street gesture he'd seen in some cheap flick. The doors closed... I was stunned by the sheer audacity of a stranger--like him--to lay a hand on me, and boiling with anger. That night, I couldn't sleep and the next morning began combing the halls for his Bat Majesty. Around noon, I found him in another group, which I walked into. "Good to see you, Bob, baby!" I said, then bitch-slapped him across the face. But this time, there was no elevator door closing between us. I stood there for about 15 seconds, waiting. He did nothing. I turned and left. But I regret it now. I regret that he didn't do anything about it, even though he was at least a head taller than me. I wouldn't have minded bleeding at all for one more opportunity to give Kane the kind of Bat Lesson that Finger, Robinson, Sprang and others only dreamed of.

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It is
The other guys I worked with fawned over him, I thought he was kind of cruel to be honest. He was drawing Doom Patrol and hated it, kept bragging about how he would subvert the scripts any chance he got and would pull his issues and point at the shit he changed for laughs.

But if you want to PISS him off? Call him Teddy...he hates that.

No...silly is not taking two seconds to Google a name and see context.

Contain your autism Tommy

Who even fuckin cares?

>I’m so smart I made doom patrol subversive
Über kék.

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A casual glance isn't going to show you why Bob was a spectacular comics artist, especially without any context for the times and genres. It's like how people look at Dan DeCarlo's art and think it's "bad" because it's simple. You need an understanding of how he composes pages, the cues he took from other artists, and a good, long look at how effortlessly he conveys emotion and action to really appreciate his work.

That's the biggest hurdle to discussing comics art: you have to really pore over an artist's output to really analyze it, and a lot of it is subtle design choices rather than the immediate "quality" of illustrations.

How about you both stop shitting up the thread with this.

Yeah it was one of those light taps on the cheek by Kane like he was the Godfather or something

>ywn slap a pompous ass like Kane across the face for all the shit he pulled during his lifetime
It hurts, lads

Kirby was just bitter because he wasn't getting the credit and money he deserved. Roy Thomas, as good a writer and editor as he might have been, was probably too much of a company man and refused to stand by Jack when he was going against Stan Lee.

>loved McKeever stories
>he's a terrible prick
I hate this world so much.

>Drumpf supporter bullshits
News at 11.

If I don't remember it wrong, Archie Goodwin was McKeever's guy, and by his influence, Carlin let him have the job of the German trilogy. Once Carlin got replaced by Didio, he kicked him off and made sure he was never going to work for DC again and hasn't even re-released those stories in any sort of collection. What a pity motherfucker.

>Interesting thread actually talking about comic books, creators and trivia
>Company war faggots still show up
Fuck off

Still, the least you could do is look up who he was. That is, if you're actually interested in gaining knowledge about the medium you're supposed to love, instead of propagating the company wars cancer that has kept it from growing for over 50 years.

So many comic book writers and artists end up being such pitiful assholes. I think it has to do with how the American comic book system treats them like shit, so they compensate by being complete cunts to each other instead of forming a union to fight back or whatever, because people who work in comics tend to be pushover introverts.

Mangaka have it worse.

I'm absolutely ignorant about the world of manga, but I've read as much, yes. Japanese workers in general are constantly shat over though, aren't they?

It’s exceptionally bad for artists. You give up your life to become a content machine on the off chance you’ll reach an audience. If you fail you have no backup, you just have to keep trying until you either make it or neck yourself.

I remember a really good documentary about how a bullet train derailed and killed a ton of people cause the conductor had worked his life to being a conductor and had been reprimanded for being a minute or so late before so he was going to fast around a curve and crashed into an apartment complex or something. The documentary focused on how the train industry there is kind of fucked because how important timing is and how they keep making faster trains instead of fixing schedule issues. They talked about how working yourself too hard and focusing on work more than anything was referred to as "the Japanese sickness".
so yeah, japanese work culture is pretty infamous cause of that kind of stuff

It's funny how Americans always bitch about unions. Sure they're not perfect, and there's lot of corruption and whatnot, but so there is in corporations and at the very least, two crooks trying to get a piece of the same pie are gonna keep each other in check.
Just look at the worker situation in any non-unionized line of work, such as comics. It's fucking terrible.

He is not wrong you know

Defending your own post won't help.

I have already all the knowledge i need. I salute you user

Shut up marvel fag. You are one of the people who love doomwank eh?

>I have already all the knowledge i need. I salute you user
I guess you don’t need proper grammar then?

Morrison was trying too hard, Ennis hadn't found his footing yet, and Millar was too afraid to take the piss out of Judge Dredd because he liked Dredd as a straight up badass.

>and Millar was too afraid to take the piss out of Judge Dredd because he liked Dredd as a straight up badass.

Huh? That I thought that was Ennis. I know Millar wrote Dredd stories, though.

I'm glad you didn't deny you were defending your own post.

STOP ENGAGING IT. ITS NOT A HUMAN AND YOU SHOULDNT TREAT IT LIKE ONE.

It's possible. McKeever probably wouldn't have known it though because Carlin was the one who called him up to say that his art would be suited for the Superman's Metropolis project.

>Once Carlin got replaced by Didio, he kicked him off and made sure he was never going to work for DC again and hasn't even re-released those stories in any sort of collection. What a pity motherfucker.

The worst part is that there's actually a fourth book that the Lofficers planned to do but never went through (presumably because of the friction between Didio and McKeever and Didio ending the Elseworlds line)

>Writer Jean-Marc Lofficier had a fourth and final book planned, entitled The Green Light, which would have introduced counterparts of Green Lantern, the Flash and the Martian Manhunter (based on Leni Riefenstahl's Das Blaue Licht (U.S. title: The Blue Light (1932)) and Arnold Fanck's Der Weiße Rausch - Der Neue Wunder des Schneeschuhs (U.S. title: The White Ecstasy (1931)) (which also starred Leni Riefenstahl)) and a female version of Aquaman (based on Georg Wilhelm Pabst's Die Herrin von Atlantis (U.S. title: The Mistress of Atlantis (1932)). The book would have dealt with the rediscovery of Earth, but it was never published and remains so to this day.[1]

Justifying and endulging in ignorace is never right.

Fuck off TommyLindo

It’s amazing how someone can come off like a cock in their own autobiography.

Well, at least it's an honest one I guess.

Hah, nice. As intended I didn't even read it as Licks, and just assumed it was Fucks with the F hidden behind the other guy.

That was a friendly jab more than anything. Warren Ellis was pretty cordial with Millar, and even hand-picked him to pick up from where he was leaving off his Authority run.

Well, yeah, it's an obvious reference to the joke about Scottish people being goat fuckers. Typical bong bantz.

Anyone's got that strip featuring Alan Moore being chased by fans and getting the shits, so he wipes his ass with an issue of Swamp Thing?

>Scottish people being goat fuckers
That's the Welsh, user.

It's a homage not a satire/attack, but here it is.

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And then the dudes want to sell it? Yeah, Alan Moore was being portrayed in a positive light there.

According to the English, everyone but them fuck goats because the pigs are theirs and theirs only.

I know it wasn't an attack. I thought this thread was for more playful stuff too, like that one about Millar and goats.

>punched the pimp right in the fucking face
Supposedly Miller ended his career at Marvel by socking Shooter in the jaw.

What issue? I don’t notice that I guess

Suicide Squad v1 #58 not #52 this time, sorry

Oh, thanks btw.

Imagine him being right.

REPRINT WHEN?

The funniest thing about it? Morrison's power in Suicide Squad is a writer who is able to warp reality through what he writes in a manuscript on his portable computer.

He's attacked by a monster and gets killed because he gets writers block and can't think of anything to defend himself.

You can also see how it probably fucked Roy up to be shittalked by Kirby, since as soon as the Kirby controversy calmed down he switched stances and became kind of an activist for creator's rights.

these videos are by far the best thing to come from the image era, Todd and Rob sound like such dweebs.

I think it's based o na true story, where Alan Moore went to a convention and fans followed him into the toilets.
Nothing more extreme than that happened though

the real deep lore is how Kurt Busiek is very autistic about this and calls Steranko a lier whenever he remembers the episode

Does Busiek say it never happened, or that it happened differently? Also, what are his sources?

bump

A whole book of spite.

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It makes me happy to know that a lot of creators, including Kirby himself, hate John Byrne as much as I do

Jack Kirby liked to cultivate an image.The infamous Nazi fight story where he claimed he went down to fight Nazis who threatened him
and Simon over captain America was really him being scared out of his wits and asking his editor to hire security for him.

I feel like it was more to prove a point--once you're in a comic, you're fair game to use. Basically out meta-ing Morrison's meta

His source is probably being there. I have no doubt Steranko is a bullshitter for the sake of a good story.

Reminder that the guy was basically kicked out of Marvel for insulting Quesada for being a lazy EiC and letting Kevin Smith delay his Daredevil run...because he was too preoccupied with arranging his mother's funeral to dedicate himself to his job.

Wow he's a semi-decent person who cared about his mum.
Doesn't stop me from thinking he's a wanker

Quesada has fucking dumb decisions, but that was one of those times where Byrne was in the wrong.

Are you serious? Taking care of your parents affairs and their funeral after their death should absolutely take precedence over your fucking job

Wasnt that literally the case with Deadpool?

Alan Moore wrote a friendly jab at Frank Miller's Daredevil run.

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>I love this shit.

This shows how petty Kirby was. A reminder, even after this Lee was more than happy to offer him another position at Marvel when he was in dire straights.

Lee was just the bigger guy.

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Dude, what that guy says is that it was Kevin Smith's mom who died and Byrne was bitching because Quesada was letting him delay his Daredevil so he could take care of the funeral arrangements.

>Before stan was called in kirby was trashtalking him but at the moment stan appeared kirby just remained silent

I don't see how you guys put that little weasel on a pedestal like you do. He sounds like a bitch.

No, Deadpool was a full on ripoff of Deathstroke by Liefeld.

Oh, I completely misread it. My bad.
Fuck Byrne even more then

For you

>Please come back so I can put my name on more of your comics! You're desperate right now, right? It's an offer you can't refuse!

Liefeld tried to backtrack and claim Deadpool was just a parody all along in an effort to get some credit for what Deadpool would later become.

This was Marvel in the seventies, while they were still in the middle of their creative and commercial peak, while most DC titles were struggling to catch up and stay relevant. Lee was under no obligation to offer Kirby anything, especially after he was openly shit-talking him in his own comics (that would later be cancelled due to low sales), but he did it anyway.

This is actually really funny. I thought Alan Moore was supposed not to have a sense of humor!

Should also note that the job he'd offered was the role of Art Director at Marvel, which was of roughly equal importance to Stan Lee's position and would've paid him the same amount too. Lee offered him this position twice, and he refused both times.

It's not as full on as you think. Visually, Deadpool was conceived to look more like a villainous and heavily armed Spider-Man than like Deathstroke, but the role in his debut story was as a mercenary villain fighting a team of teens. Liefeld and Nicieza noticed that they'd unintentionally made him like early Deathstroke, and they embraced the joke by giving him the name Wade Wilson, but the connection didn't go much further than the name and being a mercenary fighting a teen team.

Go to bed Rob

Does Red Lion count?

Moore's got a sense of humor, he's just lost it over time because he's too busy being a bitter old fuck.

He hasn't lost it, the problem is that people around here always put the same quotes talking about the same things.

>Visually, Deadpool was conceived to look more like a villainous and heavily armed Spider-Man than like Deathstroke

This. Deadpool was designed the way he was because Liefeld was joking around with McFarlane about how he'd lucked out getting to draw Spidey's mask every issue while he had to draw all these faces in New Mutants/X Force so he made his own simplistically masked character.

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No, that's a creator taking the piss on a character.

It's also more of a gentle ribbing than a direct mocking.

That's actually a dig at a real character concept DC had of their first POC superhero. It was literally gonna be a virulent racist white guy who'd Hulk out in to a huge afro'd black guy with super strength. It didn't work out for obvious reasons, so they approached Tony Isabella to salvage the concept, and he reworked it in to what would become Black Lightning.

The CPT joke was originally meant to be about something else, anybody remembers what was the original?

As I recall, the middle panel was gonna be him asking if he was allowed to use the n-word.

Who owns the rights of Destroyer Duck anyways? Wikipedia says Todd McFarlane owns Eclipse Comics licenses but I doubt he'll ever use them again after the Savage Dragon crossover from the 90s.

Might be a ROM situation where the rights are all tangled and no one really knows.

Ah, yeah, that was it. I guess they thought about the advertisers.

>Wikipedia says Todd McFarlane owns Eclipse Comics
Well, we know how that ended up in the Miracleman case.

That was due to it turning out that Warrior Comics (who Eclipse had bought the rights off of) bought the rights fraudulently off of Mic Anglo's realtor. Wasn't really their fault.

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who is this making fun of and source?

sounds like Yea Forums honestly

Aaron Diaz

Oh, that makes a lot of sense

I seem to recall an earlier version of this where he looked a lot more like Diaz

Destroyer Duck was creater-owned, so Eclipse wouldn't even have the rights to the character; he (and everybody associated) would be owned by Steve Gerber and Jack Kirby, so presumably their estates, or next of kin would have the rights.

tate's?

>the black power panel is even drawn in mark bagley style

So perfect.

The fuck does Diaz have to do with porn

Wait, this raises even more questions, if this is true, why did Kane steal the pages? Was he selling them to someone who sells original art? Or getting it back to the other artists? (but then again Ditko probably might not have taken it).

You ever seen his old art?

What does art have to do with porn? There's a world of difference between drawing something and exploiting real life women

>I didn't realize that Mike Carlin was defending McKeever as being a good choice for the Lofficiers' Elseworlds German Impressionist trilogy
it's such a shame the fourth story for that universe never got made, it would have been amazing

someone should try and convince Lofficer to release in more detail his plans for The Green Light

honestly the joke still works since CPT means "Colored People Time"* and thus Vixen's response in the last panel still makes sense

*which in case anyone here doesn't know is an old racist joke about black people taking longer to do anything compared to white people

Nothing directly, but the main character of DC was based on Ashly Burch, who he had an extremely unrequited crush on, and then he went on to explore his amputee fetish through that character.

Look, I know what a creepy mother fucker Diaz is. But the comic that started this conversation appears to be conflating the dumb shit Diaz draws to actual exploitation of real people.
Which is just not a position I can agree with.

It's less that and more his attitude regarding smut.

Smut he draws is A-okay, because it's empowering or whatever because he's just such a nice, feminist guy.

Smut other people draw? Horrible stuff that is purely sexist and misogynistic.

Watching Mary Cagle BTFO him some years ago was still too fucking funny.

Would he have been able to reach? Shooter is pretty tall, and Miller is not

>and probably quite accurate
If you'd actually read comics from that era, you would know that the superlatives for the credits were there, but the actual people were all credited for their work. I don't remember a single time Stan was credited for an art element, only story, writing or editor.

not exactly manga but i saw a NHK interview on an animator and what are his hopes and dreams and his reponse was he hopes to make an anime that people will remember for at least two years.

that's how bloated the anime market it.

If anything, Lee was a bit of an innovator and actively fought for artists to be credited for their contributions. The golden age and most of the early silver age was a borderline charnel house where writers and artists were fed through a meat grinder and not given any credit for their work at all.

So Kane slaps him lightly on the face and next day he slaps Kane back for real

This is what Aunt Petunia looks like according to Byrne

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Byrne had a weird thing for relatives who're actually really young. Reminder that he retconned Jimmy's mom to only be in her mid thirties and Jimmy was all on board with Superman fucking her and becoming his step-dad.

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>a weird thing

you can just say that he's obviously a pedophile

I mean you're not wrong, but what I'm really saying is that he's also really in to mommies.

>Byrne had a weird thing for relatives who're actually really young.
Because he's a fucking Pedophile who gets off on the idea of girls getting pregnant young. there's plenty of other evidence of that.

>Smut he draws is A-okay
That's really not the vibe the comic gives off

I'll admit I'd be fully behind this happening in another universe where the usual Clark/Lois relationship doesn't happen

This lead to Superman combing through south asia to find her MIA husband's corpse, right? I just don't see that setup going anywhere else.

>Porn is exploring people

You have to go back

Did I say that, asshole? The comic in question is very clearly making allusions to the porn producer guy filming teens

Ah well autocorrect fucked me.

he's a big fucking horny hypocrite
this was right after he drew nudes of his waifu and at the same time went on about how cool he was for empowering women with his comic. of course mr diaz deleted everything but he got a lot of shit for it. also he puts tits and asses in every page of his comic and his waifu is a creepy ashly burch lookalike

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>It's funny how Americans always bitch about unions
This probably sounds like a douchey thing to say, but they're brainwashed as fuck. The downsides to unions have been overstated over and over by corporations until massive swaths of the public believe they outweigh the benefits, even as workers.
Maybe I'm biased cause my union is what saved my job after a traffic accident fucked my spine and left me unable to work for several months, but it just blows my mind when middle and lower class people trash on unions.

[citation needed]

Hair is completely redone and he has facial hair now
He used to be balding and with no ponytail I think

I guess he got complaints?

>This lead to Superman combing through south asia to find her MIA husband's corpse
It turned out that her husband was a deep cover CIA operative who'd gotten stuck in a time warp for two decades, and there was a mini-arc within Superman consisting of Jimmy trying to find him. It was all so fucking stupid that Burn just cut his losses, revealed that he was just an alien masquerading as his father, and the whole thing was just dropped.

Actually I stand corrected: Byrne was the one who introduced the idea that Jimmy's father was still alive, then did nothing with it, left the book, and Jerry Ordway resolved it during his run years later. Later writers were also super not on board with Superman fucking Jimmy's mom, and thus had their artists draw her to look significantly older.

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Also, let's not forget that Moore uses a certain amount of irony when he's being interviewed, and that doesn't always translate to the written word.
Probably thought it was a little on the nose, and didn't want any internet drama

Dude took more potshots than just Diaz, I don't think shying away from drama would be the reason. Maybe he got threatened with legal action and decided it wasn't worth the risk

Didn’t Roy also get annoyed at Marvel editorial and left for DC as a result?

Roy WAS editorial.

And after that, Moore ragged on Sin City calling it misogynistic while creating Lost Girls, irony is fun!

Of all the things you might call Lost Girls, I wouldn't say misogynistic is one.

Tumblr told me otherwise.

This is Bruce Timm's actual art style before he decided to copy 1960s mens' magazine pinup artists.

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You can see bits of BTAS in there.

But his style now is more unique than this which just looks like one of the thousands of sub-Will Elders that populated Mad history.

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Don't forget the characters in Savage Dragon/Megaton Man that were based on characters Byrne worked on.

In fact, She-Dragon started out as a jab at Byrne's She-Hulk.

Not sure if I knew those at the time but it amused me because he was an obvious swipe at the blonde, wavy-haired self-depiction byrne used, even after he started to look more like pic related.

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What the fuck is happening here.

It has a retelling of Peter Pan where Wendy scares away Hook like a Sheela-na-gig, straight pussy power. Sounds to me like you've been listening to a bunch of prudes using misogyny like a buzzword. It was a long time since I read it but From Hell is probably way more misogynistic than Lost Girls, just due to what it's based on. Or the lovecraft comic where the girl jerks off the fishman. Anything but Lost Girls.

anime

he copied anime

1960's men's magazine pinup artists were much better

The Crosstime Caper. 'Nuff said.

>Byrne is the biggest hack
>implying
He is an asshole but no one can here judge him for it or his fetishes.

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Why go against Stan though? He didn't have word how much Kirby gets money.

You're right.
The fact that he was also a bad writer is completely unrelated.

So you don't like any of his work then?

>It was a long time since I read it but From Hell is probably way more misogynistic than Lost Girls, just due to what it's based on
It's been a long time since I read it, but I'm pretty certain there's nothing meaningfully misogynistic about From Hell

>REEEEE HE LIKES HIS WOMEN YOUNG
Normalfags out

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>he copied anime
I'm intrigued by your claim, do you have specific artists to point to here

>bad writer
She-Hulk and his FF are still great. And so is his Superman run.

>And so is his Superman run
if you ignore the last issue, yes

>Dan De Carlo is anime

>the characters in Savage Dragon/Megaton Man that were based on characters Byrne worked on
That was an awful read and I like Don Simpson.

If anything, From Hell is a denouncement of systematic misogyny in British culture.
Do you guys actually read the comics, or just read the plot online and make assumptions from there? Because regardless of how long ago you've read it, I can't see how anybody can read From Hell and be left with the impression of it being misogynistic in any shape or form. Same with Lost Girls.
The only Moore comic with an obvious (although more than likely, unintentional) misogynistic streak would be The Killing Joke, and Moore himself has pointed it out.

I was thinking that tumblr would be more likely to label it misogynistic than Lost Girls due to the killing prostitutes thing inherent in Ripper stories.

From Hell was actually one of the first comics I read when I got back into comics(not counting the stuff I read as a kid, like Donald Duck and Tintin), so that's gotta be close to a decade that's passed since I read it, and I don't have the best of memories when it comes to remembering stories. I fully admit that I probably don't remember it right at all, with how it handled the victims as characters.

>female friendship
;___;

Spoilers for anyone who hasn't read it:

The killing of prostitues is presented as part of a plan to keep women down so power remains in male hands.

I guess I REALLY need to reread it. Time to take it off the shelf and dust it off.

What? The main plotpoint was to find a pregnant whore to prevent a bastard prince to be born.

Did you somehow manage to skip all of Gull's inner monologues (which are about half of the book), and how he sees himself as an agent of some sort of prophecy that comes from the dawn of civilization, when men took the power away from women and how he's meant to keep things that way?
Of course, is not that Moore himself is saying that's what the killings were actually about and Gull is an unreliable narrator, but that's how his mind sees it. As a part of a conspiracy to keep women down.

>Jack Kirby's criticism of Stan Lee is that he's personable, popular, excited, and actually displays a positive outlook on life.

More like he was a liar and a thief, user.

>>Please come back so I can put my name on more of your comics! You're desperate right now, right? It's an offer you can't refuse!

It's called a job homey.

youtube.com/watch?v=77Y6CIyyBcI

>You have to beg people so you can do things they can't in exchange for an amount of money decided by them
Stay cucked, Americans

>And so is his Superman run.
Absolutely not. If anything it's hurt the franchise ever since. It's just as tone deaf and moronic as his ASM.

But none of those are true though. Stan will never be Bob Kane like even if you try to believe it.

Says the shill

Completely disagree but i agree that his ASM was not good.

Shill for what, exactly?

I thought the point of the book was that the Ripper murders and surrounding circus were a microcosm of the decade they happened in, which was in-turn a microcosm of the 20th century?
I'm pretty sure Moore even says that in the annotations at the end.
I really don't remember anything about something from the dawn of civilization taking power from women, and the whole hypothesis about it all being about keeping women down seems a bit dubious given that Gull's acting on Queen Victoria's orders

>and the whole hypothesis about it all being about keeping women down seems a bit dubious given that Gull's acting on Queen Victoria's orders
He's openly only serving under Victoria because it suits his own purposes, and once the ritual is complete, he stops obeying orders and straight-up refuses to acknowledge her or the Freemasons' authority.

Re-read it. It's not even an intepretation but Gull actually says it very explicitly and makes long rants about it.

Yeah, not too sure how this can be misinterpreted given there's literally an entire chapter of him outlining his plans while having a guided tour of London.

Get bent buddy

I haven't read all of his work, but what I have read was shit yes

When will vampire Dan Didio make a comeback?

Based

>because he's too busy being a bitter old fuck.
Or maybe children just get bootyblasted when he says mean things about their precious cartoon funnybooks

...

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see

BASED STAN

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There's a fan theory that the whole of Final Crisis was a critique on editorial mandates and the constant push for bigger and badder events instead of letting the writters write.

Mandrake was suppose to represent the worst kind of editor; the kind that subsides on draining the very life out of the worlds they're suppose to be in charge of, leaving a dried out husk of status quo.

Really? I thought he was supposed to represent the fans who drained the life from the writers by slavishly clinging to continuity.

The good thing about the video is that besides having a laugh at Todd and Liefeld, you can see Stan Lee drop his nice guy facade for a minute and see what kind of a fucking asshole he must've been to work with.

Jesus lad. He was just fucking with them.

>little bit of ribbing
>this guy is a fucking asshole it must have been hell to work with him
Lee haters are phenomenally retarded it seems

Yeah, 'cause there's a camera on. It was a video to showcase the new talent and he just went there to shit on them. It's a funny vid, but you can see how he's got it in him despite that nice guy persona he always cultivated.

The fuck. Oddly reminds me of that one bizarre detective from a Vietnam war veteran furry commune comic.

I seriously cannot comprehend how can you see harmless ribbing as this horrible crime. Not Stan's fault Rob and Todd are slow witted idiots who couldn't banter back

I don't see it as a crime, as I said, it's a funny vid. But you can see he had it in him being a total cunt towards other people and I wouldn't doubt he'd let that go when there weren't any cameras rolling.

>asks them basic character building questions
>gets brushed off time after time with "who cares lol this is what the kids like"
>cracks jokes at these simple minded idiots expense
I'm beginning to understand why you think you'd have a problem with Stan in a professional setting

its a metaphor for doing too much mushrooms

Todd and Rob grew up as poor kids and in roughish neighborhoods, they can take jokes

All the fucking time

Its DC that insists on devotion to continuity and constantly rebooting
They should just do what Rex Stout did with Nero Wolfe & Archie Goodwin: they're in a floating continuity where they don't age as the world around them moves on - they are the same characters in the first stories written in the early 1930s as they are in the mid 1960s
Even when in a later story they meet a character from an early story that is now middle aged and has an adult son whose death they have to investigate nobody treats the age difference or proceeding time span as unusual

>like he was Vitamin f******g Flintheart
>But nothing aces an in-person encounter.
He talks like a James Ellroy novel, I love it

>Even when in a later story they meet a character from an early story that is now middle aged and has an adult son whose death they have to investigate nobody treats the age difference or proceeding time span as unusual

I think they kinda do that with the Dick Tracy comic strip now.

What ethical issues?

>when did Stan ever take credit for any part of an issue that wasn't writing?
Literally everything that bares his name was him taking credit for someone else's work.

So what you're saying is that Stan was a good friend.

So why was Gil Kane stealing art?

that would have been hilarious

incel retard

>1960s mens magazines
The 'Sweats' as they were called looked nothing like that

They had a photo realistic sketch/larger than life quality - they were not cartoony

B:TAS art is inspired by the Flesicher Superman cartoons of the 1930s

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To make money, because comic book artists used to do jack shit from their actual work. Not that they do all that much nowadays.

Other industries paid illustrators better you know

Then you have shit taste. His She-Hulk run is kino.

I'm going to be honest with you mate.
Why the fuck would I have picked up and read his She-Hulk run if I despised his Avengers run? That just doesn't make any sense

>being this mad
Yea Forums isn't only place who likes young girls, normalfag.

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Expect that is not true. He always did gibe those people credits.

Because She-Hulk is great.

So is Thor, but I don't run around telling people to read Aaron's run

Not him but in my euro country union corruption is so political and one-sided that whenever a certain party is in power, transportation unions will perform last minute strikes to prevent people from gathering for protests. When an opposite political party is in power, the company unions (water, electricity and the like used to and still partially are owned by the state) cause friction and intentionally tarpit everything through bureaucracy to the point that the opposition can't make any reforms or updates. Things are so scummy that I've changed my mind about privatization completely.

Whats the context here?

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what other books have art like this

But difference between with that is Byrnes run of She-Hulk is the best run of that character and is actually good.

Reminder that this was done 100% mean spirited and Stan still welcomed Jack back with open arms when he burned his bridges at DC.

Isn't Byrne the one who made She-Hulk great?

Has Moore ever produced anything original or just good? All I've read from his stuff is the League of Extra Ordinary Gentlemen, Watchmen, the comic where Bilbo Baggins played Jack the Ripper in the movie adaption, a story set in the Cthulhu universe, and the saucy one with Dorothy from Wizard of Oz. All he did was take pre exististing and established characters and butcher them (not critique, satirize, deconstruct or explore; butcher) to present his nonsense views and vision.

I like Top 10

Halo Jones. V for Vendetta, and A Small Killing are all original. Brought to light & From Hell are arguably so, given that they're based on historical events.

Most of his output's good.
If you honestly think he hasn't critiqued or deconstructed anything, then you're probably pretty stupid

have a read of Brought to Light

>a horse-voiced beast

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Its why Japanese companies and Amazon's original warehouses are in the South. Southerns are so anti-union, they're almost to the point of thanking their bosses for 12/hr a day, 7 days a week work because its the kind of real man's work grandpappy died doing before the sissies insisted on things like breaks and health insurance.

He's probably one of the thousands of people who believe that drawing an atteactive woman with big eyes is automatically anime.

See, that's the thing; anything that gets too powerful eventually turns to shit, but nonone is willing to wrangle things back to something sensible. America desperately needs powerful unions RIGHT NOW because the rich are destroying the middle class and convincing every that only businessmen should run the country. But at the same time, once the unions have beat the piss out of the rich, you've got to figure out how to stop them from turning aeound and doing what you're talling about.

That's not true at all

I remember being really astounded by the comic C.O.W.L. published a few years ago having the needless TWEEST of the superhero union boss cutting deals with the mob to create to justify the unions contract with the Chicago city council
Its not so much that they're anti-union but that their governments are heavily co-opted by business interests and think tanks opposed to unions
The Kochs and all those billionaire lunatics
Which feed the population a constant diet of propaganda
>destroying the middle class
nigga pls you're all working class at this point but nobody likes to say that word its an even bigger dirty word than union
>But at the same time, once the unions have beat the piss out of the rich, you've got to figure out how to stop them from turning aeound and doing what you're talling about.
No you don't, it is simply a matter of workers not a bureaucracy having control over and running their union and implementing and performing safeguards to ensure that power cant accumulate

>to create crime
d'oh

...

The art is by Jim Mahfood. He drew some Tank Girl and a Miami Vice comic recently

If you guys were actually paying attention, Stan Bragg is holding a newspaper strip, not a comic book. Stan Lee was listed as author on every marvel weekly newspaper strip since they started being printed and well into his senility. It's an obvious lie everyone knew about.

That's literally every newspaper strip over 30 years old tho...

It's not just comic artists. Webcomic artists and animators tend to have a lot of weird individuals as well and while you could argue it's the strain of production that makes them break down I'd argue most (western) creative types have to be self absorbed assholes in order to make it since they'd have no issue with throwing people under the bus to get ahead. They really have to have an autistic level confidence to keep going even if they lack talent completely and not listening to people and criticism is arguably a benefit to them since they wouldn't be suseptible to breakdowns. There are probably a lot of nice introvert creators with talent out there but they either get chewed up and spat out by their coworkers, bosses, or even their own fans if they make it that far.

Context?

Jack Kirby was a bitter asshole

>Also, let's not forget that Moore uses a certain amount of irony when he's being interviewed, and that doesn't always translate to the written word.
Exactly this. If you want to know what Moore really thinks, read his books.

t. ghost of Stan Lee