Who is spidermans arch nemesis?

A regular job?

Its the Green Goblin
Then maybe dans Slott

The real answer is Green Goblin.

Green Gobbo

Correct

Stilt-Man

The status quo

Always and forever, Norman Osborn

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> I lived to see someone summarize cape comics' problems in one line.
ftfy

Green Goblin but Doc Ock has had periods where he took the spot.

Jobbed to Otto in his book.

Poverty

The only good goblin are the ones who never come out of their stinking holes

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JJJ.

Skip Westcott

Bug spray. But unironically

Peter Parker

CARNAGE

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Joe Quesada, Brian M. Bendis, Dan Slott.

Doc Ock back in the day. Then Gwen Stacy and the thing with Parker's parents happened, and Osborn has had a stranglehold on that position ever since.

Hi Zack

>carnage
>anything more than a crying wimp

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Spider-man doesn't have one. He's not Batman, obsessed with and engaging in a toxic relationship with his villains.

What motivates Spider-man isn't revenge or a desire to put his villains away, it's just "welp, I've got this crippling guilt, better go and help people to alieve the pain".

>implying that's not true

Parker Luck. Any other answer just doesn't know.

Lel, he's not even venom's anymore

My best friend for 20 years was over at my place playing the new Spider-Man game when we got into an argument about who Spidey’s nemesis is, I say Green Goblin, he says Doc Ock, we had a great long argument about it.

Definitely Goblin.

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I love it when a rival hates the protag so much he knows when a faker tries to take his place

His nudist girlfriend

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Came here to post this
Noman is one of the biggest POS in 616

You can have an arch enemy or a nemesis. Arch nemesis doesn't make sense.

Arch enemy is the enemy above all other enemies, an enemy behind it all, who conducts lesser enemies to ruin your life.

Nemesis is your shadow self, a nega spider man, someone so similar, in another life they could have been you, or you they.

So either fisk or Goblin would be his arch enemy, and either venom or doc ock would be his nemesis.

Goblin and Fisk create master plans to destroy spidey.

Venom and doc ock both stumbled onto thier powers by accident, but used that power in very different ways.

Quesada

Peter Parker's arch nemesis is Green Goblin, Spider-Man's arch nemesis is Doc Ock

Goblin is to often Marvel's Joker and Norman was forced into the Lex Luthor role, which weren't really updated takes on the character. I'll vote anyone but him as arch enemy or nemesis.

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> Superior Spider-Man but both villains hijack the body
> Norman is in charge of being Peter Parker while Otto has to Spider-Man

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>the enemy above all other enemies, an enemy behind it all, who conducts lesser enemies to ruin your life.
>your shadow self, a nega spider man, someone so similar, in another life they could have been you, or you they.

Doc Ock is all these things

Yeah, there's a deep down good feeling when there's that kind of hatred. Horseshoes right into closest confident somehow.

I'm not in the habit of reading comics, but isn't it Norman? I remember Ock became his ally or something and Venom doesn't have a hateboner for Peter anymore, or so I remember from the Red Goblin arc.

Responsibility

Ock had (b.S., before Slott) occasional bouts of heroism when he wanted Spider-Man to stop moping or getting unhinged because he saw him as better reflection of himself/someone he could've been. That's also why he wanted to beat Spider-Man - not Peter Parker - so he could prove to himself that he could become better.

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1) Green Goblin
2) Dr. Octopus
3) Venom
4) Hobgoblin
5) Green Goblin II
6) Kingpin
7) Jackal
8) Carnage
9) Kraven
10) Electro

Green Goblin
Venom is a close-second.

Electro's awfully high there, Pete never gave two shits about him outside of "subduing" him.

Fucking casual. Stilt-Man is Daredevil's archnemesis.

Underrated

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Sodomy!

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Irv the Spider Molester needs his own movie

God, I hope we get this Goblin in the next SM game and not Evil Shrek

Came here to post this.

Electro’s so high for the amount of times he’s had Peter at his mercy. Electro’s honestly one Spidey’s greatest challenges, and has displayed sheer power on levels beyond Peter’s usual paygrade.

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How long was Norman dead for? And who counted as the archnemesis while he was gone?

Another thing about Electro is how the same trick never works twice with him. Water? Now he turns it into steam. Rubber? Can get around, and even melt it. Metal conductors? He learned how to control metal.

Peter was always on his toes with Max, because more than any other enemy he had to figure out a new way to win. Hell, he even begged once, which was the only way to stop Max from destroying New York.

Peter Parker

Morlun is the arch nemesis of every spiderman

Only because of a shitty retcon in the 90s, and then a shitty retcon in the 2000s

One More Day

The sheer power aspect is interesting to consider, I'm mostly remembering Spidey stopping giving two shits about Electro once he's defeated (or presumed dead after blowing himself up, since writers forget about the steam deal). Guess I'm to used to Slott's treatment of the character, especially once his powers went haywire.

it's norman. it'll always be norman, it'll never not be norman.

slott and ockfags forever BTFO. even if otto killed may, MJ, and johnny fucking storm in front of peter, it'll still be norman

>everyone saying Norman
>he was "dead" for over 20 years and absent during Spidey's most iconic eras in the 80s and early 90s.
Casuals, all of you

Wizard considered Norman, simply for the legacy he left behind, Spider-Man's greatest enemy as early as 1994, two years before he was brought back. In the Hobgoblin's debut, Peter also says Norman was 'probably' his greatest enemy.

>Norman was forced into the Lex Luthor role
It was Lex Luthor who copied the evil businessman schtick

Aye, and when they needed an antagonist big enough to finally shut down the Clone Saga, they bought in Norman because he was the only Spidey villain with a big enough impact to do it.

Killing Gwen and changing the comic landscape cemented him as Spidey's biggest villain, just from the meta-impact.
Any one of the other villains could murder every single of Peter's loved ones and it still wouldn't matter because we're used to it.

Thread should be closed

An anal fisting from sandman

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Your nemesis isn't your opposite, they're the means of your destiny. Usually the person who kills you.

Feel like Jackal should be higher. He put Peter through was worse than most villains.

Why? He's basically just a fancy divorce lawyer

Aunt May

Around 23 years, Harry then Venom

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It's Norman. Anyone who says otherwise is either an idiot or an Ottofag.

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To be fair, all of Spider-Man’s enemies have become inconsistent with writers, especially due to recent writers like Millar and Slott.

Honestly if the Scorpion hadn’t been written so inconsistently, and we just went with the writers who used him as a threat, he would have a shot at the top ten. But because of writers completely ignoring that he’s stronger, faster, and more vicious than Peter, and serves almost a bully role other villains don’t, he doesn’t get the credit he should.

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I'm pretty sure that in the early years it was supposed to be Doc Ock. As years went by Green Goblin started to steal the spotlight and when he killed Gwen he basically cemented himself as the arch enemy forever.

Honestly all the shittiness connected with the set up and end of Superior was worth it for this page alone. This was the best way the characterize both of them and it was so satisfying.

steady employment and the stigma attached to living with roommates in your 30's.

On paper his primary arch is Otto Octavius aka Doctor Octopus; however most would agree that Norman Osborn the original Green Goblin has been Spider-Man's foremost nemesis for years now. But if it came down to it, end of the day - the Guild would recognize Octopus' original arching claim. And really what's Goblin going to do, toss a pumpkin?

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The correct answer is Spider-Man has a trifecta of archenemies, serving as different types of foil.

>Doctor Octopus
Brilliant yet bullied genius scientist with huge aspirations given powers by an experiment gone wrong, Otto represents anti-Peter, what Pete would likely have grown up to become without Ben and May as a nurturing influence. This is why Superior worked so well (despite Slott), because they really are two sides of the same coin, and Otto has had flashes of self-awareness and heroism recognizing Peter is everything he never could be. Classic, borderline tragic villain.

>Venom (classic Venom, not Agent Venom or Klyntar Space Knight or whatever new direction they decide to give him)
Obvious answer, as Otto is Peter's foil, Venom is Spider-Man's. He has all his powers BUT MORE, with none of his moral drive, empathy and sense of justice and duty. He's one of the few villains who truly frightened Spider-Man because he's his dark reflection (with an unhealthy obsession).

>Green Goblin
Conceptually he shouldn't work. He's a businessman who dresses like a goblin and flies on a mechanical glider and throws pumpkin bombs and the whole thing is a mess. There's nothing inherently tying him to Spidey, if you described this character to someone who never heard of him somehow, they'd probably think he was an Iron Man villain or like one of those throwaway assholes Cap used to fight and Scourge massacred to clean house. But he works because of his sheer hatred.

He's Spidey arch enemy (or one of them) because he positioned himself that way. He has a personal hatred for the hero and his secret identity rarely seen in Marvel, and has gone above and beyond to torture Peter and destroy his life. He's a foil to Spidey not in the classic literary sense, but in the more basic, "I choose to oppose you at every turn". His obsession with Peter and Spider-Man is pathological, and the extreme lengths he goes to oppose him are frightening.

They tease the goblin armour in the first game so it's pretty much confirmed

the green gobbler

this

Gobby was always treated as a big problem, even before the Gwen thing. Ock was just around more.

made me lol hard at 2:30 AM
thank you

Based Mac

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Bendis
Slutt
Quesadilla

>Implying Goblin wouldn’t somehow burn them to the ground

Norman’s not knew to infiltrating organizations and systematically destroying them.

Responsibility

i really wouldnt even call venom a villian nowadays. He is kinda lizard.

I've had the impression for a while now that most of Spider-Man's villains came from working class backgrounds - am I right?
Who're the exceptions? Venom I think, cos his Dad was loaded/super-successful.
I'm not sure about Norman, i don't know much about his early-life, but I always had the impression he was sort of self-made.

From what I know:
- Otto's father was a construction worker, mother stayed at home, he doubled down in studying to become a nuclear physicist
- Electro's a lineman, depending on the origin his father walked out on him and his mother dissuaded him from going to university
- Vulture was an engineer who was screwed out of his business by his partner once they developed the flight tech
- Shocker was either already a career criminal safe cracker or also an engineer turned criminal
- Mysterio was a stuntman for TV and special effects artists who turned to crime for drama
- Kraven was the son of a russian noble who became a big game hunter
- Chameleon the bastard son from the same noble and a maid who turned to mimicry to escape Kraven and was picked up by the KGB because of it

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Yeah, a lot of Spider-Man's rogues are usually low end thugs like Sandman and Rhino, regular joe losers like Electro and Scorpion, or self made men caught in tragedy like Ock and Goblin.

Harry in that instance is unique, because he is more of a tragic legacy. He had everything he wanted, and yet he didn't.

Norman was second generation wealth from his father before him. Harry was 3rd gen.

Scorpion was a private eye who was hired by JJJ to investigate Peter/Spider-Man, then talked/forced into some science procedure by JJJ to give him enhanced strength/reflexed and an unstable mind so he could kill Spider-Man for him.

Happy healthy long lasting marriage.

Right, but they made it clear that as a PI he was a schlub. He agreed in part so he could be someone.

Norman has been alive since the mid 90s. At this point he's been alive way longer than he was dead, you supreme casual

>Beat down Spider-Man, then threw his chained up unconscious body in front of all of the criminal underworld
>Caused the first gang war Peter had to get involved with
>Humiliated Spider-Man in front of the public, which led to Peter having a crisis and having to face off against the Sandman and the Enforcers
>Figured out Spider-Man's identity through meticulous planning
>Ambushed Peter, knocked him unconscious, then dragged him across the night sky
>Pos-amnesia, any time the Goblin returned Peter would borderline shit his pants
>Had paid Kraven the Hunter to go after Spider-Man
>Killed Gwen Stacey
>Created a legacy so toxic and troublesome for Peter that it tainted Harry Osborn and created the Hobgoblin, two of Peter's greatest enemies

Norman was always an "Oh shit" villain, you turd.

Doesn't take away his early years.

Nice musical

>I read that in Sheila's voice

this

Then I should direct you to this post, as it contains the person that actually molested Peter.

oh you

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The Octogoblin

>Who is spidermans arch nemesis?
Great power

historically? Green goblin (norman, and harry trying to take his place, plus hobgoblin)

Recently? doc oc

Green Goblin and/or Doc Ock

Disagree, it's the Great Responsibility that bites him in the ass.

Recently? Otto has been chilling in San Francisco, my dude. Not gaf about Peter.

The Green Goblin

The natural predator of the Spider-Man (working class background) seems to be a businessman in Halloween get-up on a glider. Capitalists truly ruin everything.

Urband decay. Can't fling too well, when webs rip off half of building's facade.

Rather, what he thinks he's responsible for given his super-human powers and how he goes at it.

Yep, it's all about his sense of responsibility. He thinks he is literally responsible for all crime if he is able to stop it and does not.

>Ctrl-F J. Jonah Jameson
>No results

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How do we feel about Ultimate Norman/Goblin?

Bad.

Boring. At least 1610 Spider-Verse improved on the design.

Slott.

They are like best friends now

Yeah, they went to dinner together like 2-3 issues ago or something.

I like how Sandman was so strong that at times he had to be a FF villain

Yeah and a big chunk of that time was JMS, where he wasn't present, or Slott, which was terrible.

Marriage counseling.

>Conceptually he shouldn't work. He's a businessman who dresses like a goblin and flies on a mechanical glider and throws pumpkin bombs and the whole thing is a mess.
I forget what writer said this, but while Ock is Spidey's nemesis, Norman is Peter's. He works because of how many personal connections he has to Peter's life. He's his best friend's dad, killed his first real girlfriend, drove Harry to insanity/death, and that's all before coming back to life.

Is there any way that'd allow for the Goblin to not look to dated or silly? There's just so often you can look at a green-purple dude in a jester get up being a krazy killer.

He also made deals with Miles and Ben Reilly.

Spider-People collectively share own braincell it seems, and it flees whenever Mephisto is around.

Norman.

And it's not even close.

This page is so good that just for a moment I can forget how fucking terrible SSM was.

Easy there, Max.

For as often as Electro has pushed Spidey, there is at least an equal number of times he's gone down like a chump.

Let's not forget that Norman also screwed with Otto on more than one occasion, supreme example him infecting Otto's ex-fiancee Mary Alice with HIV. Otto's hateboner is often carried through various Spider-Man adaptions but he never ever can cut Norman the same way.

This comes from Ditko's then developing worldview.
Fundamentally, most of Spidey's early villains are thieves or vandals. Something has gone wrong, they blame the system, and turn to stealing or just lashing out. This is my biggest beef with Slott turning Otto into a Richards tier inventor- Otto invented one kinda cool thing and then an accident made it into super-tech. He needed to marry may to get a nuclear reactor. He had to steal Iso-36.

Because he's not a Creator. He's a thief
This probably colors why he really, really didn't want Goblin to be Norman- because to him, a captain of industry was a hero, not a villain.

originally Otto and J.J.Jameson, then Norman, THEN Venom, then Norman again

>This probably colors why he really, really didn't want Goblin to be Norman- because to him, a captain of industry was a hero, not a villain.
Wrong, check your facts. Norman represented the corporatist thieves and was a villain before Ditko even left as scriptor. Stan Lee's fable about Ditko not wanting Goblin to be Norman is slander.

I mean, Ditko's artistic vision non-withstanding, I don't think he ever interacted with inventors or scientists.

Slott's worse, but he also had to play catch-up with fairytale-science power creep that has since happened in Marvel to justify his little pet project.

the real problem with spidy's enemies is their mob mentality, outside of otto, norman, kingpin and venom* its enemies tend to only aim for bank robbings or similar shit, but goddam, I dare to say that they would be among the most powerful marvel villains if theybhad more vision, Misterio can fuck with Wolverine's senses, rhino was able to stop the Juggernaut once with his bare hands, feat that very few can claim, electro as many already pointed is a force to reckon, shocker is on a similar note, sandman has prove that hes a real treat even for the avanger as a group, hell let him move to Nevada or literally any desert and watch him be unstoppable**
I hate how writers tend to either forget them or use them as foolish minions
*-depends on its host
**-outside reality warpers or magic

Huh. That's neat.

>that time Peter begged for his life

You mustn't think in powerlevels but character motivation, and most of the time they're more akin to mercenaries.
Mysterio has ever done things for drama/fame or to test his dodads.
Shocker just WANTS to be a career criminal
Rhino has a shit life if he's stuck in a suit he can't get out of
Electro wants respect and was willing to undergo some experimental procedures to go toe-to-toe with Thor, even if it meant killing himself in the process, if he only won for once.
Sandman wants most of the time a clean enough record to get some visiting time with his kid.

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Switch GG II with Kraven and electro with Morlun the list would be perfect

That's exactly why Norman is the greatest
in those 20 years no one managed to fuck over Peter in the same way Norman did

Mephist says hi

Look I like JMS Morlun a lot but let's not kid ourselves here. And the goddamn events featuring him and the awful additions by Slott aren't even worth reading.

Quesada exists, user.

ITS YOU WHO'S INSANE GOBBO
INSANE IN THE MEMBRANE!

Amazing how as awful as Slott’s entire stint was, and how dogshit Superior was, he manage to make one of the best single pages of Spider-Man in decades.

>Morlun

Morlun isn’t a character, he’s a shitty plot device that represents the stink of the early 00s.

Also GG2 is definitely higher than Kraven, my man.

>Blew up Peter’s apartment
>Kidnapped Peter’s friends and family and almost executed all of them
>Made robot parents that fucked with Peter for years
>Kidnapped his own family, which forced Peter to beat down Normie’s father in front of him, leading to Normie despising Spider-Man
>Would literally follow Peter around on his glider just to fuck with him
>Actually managed to beat Peter and “killed” him, but went back to save his life last second

Kraven has last Hunt, but Harry Goblin has decades of him fucking with Pete.

In one decade. The decade he was writing in.

ASM has been shit for literal decades.

No, JMS’ run was not good.

early 60s: Doc Ock
mid 60s to early 70s: Green Goblin I/Kingpin
mid 70s to late 70s: Green Goblin II/Doc Ock again
early 80s to mid 80s: Hobgoblin
Late 80s to early 90s: Venom
Mid 90s-current: Green Goblin I again

an currently?

JJJ

currently-your reading comprehension

I'm not saying he's a good villain, he was alright to begin with and then went to hot garbage, but ranking the villains in how much they fuck up Peters life Morlun is definitely a top ten as he's not only killed Peter he's killed multiple alternate Peter's but Kaine as well.

True but they didn't show up in the 20 years that Osborn was dead

Alternate Peters are meaningless, but full-on Other Kaine, I'll give you that. Hell, Morlun was even sorta polite towards MJ when he stalked out Peter.

Ock wishes

So is that white thing Chameleon's actual face or is it yet another mask he wears under his masks? If real, why is it like that?

LITERALLY EVERYTHING
youtube.com/watch?v=oD-nUusfmb8

He's usually wearing white masks with varying amounts of holes, but that might not read well visually in that more kid-oriented book or the artist's style.
His camouflaging is best explained via "don't think to hard about it" and "talent and early childhood practice and whatever the KGB in Marvel could outfit him with for spy work" before he went mercenary.

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>his arch nemesis is Marvel's greatest jobber
Sad

Honestly if Marvel didn't have extreme ADHD, it'd probably be that wasp society that I don't even think has come up since Spider-Island and was never well explained in the first place.

>ancestral cult of wasp monsters that don't view themselves as evil but are for whatever reason opposed to the spiders and are hiding in plain sight among the general population
How is this not a more developed thing?

Because it's retro-silver age nonsense?

His face is like that when the artist wants it to be. He gets more human looks for more heartfelt stories though.

By all means, it's not Marvel is not really lacking in secret societies, add one for the wasps as well! And then we'll have recon stories why they never tried to recuit the Wasp! Then we'll have a Bug War event down the line!

Think before you post, user.

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>when you just want science to advance far enough that you can femclone yourself a shared-mind female body so you can have sex with yourself feeling both orgasms
Chameleon gets me.

Chameleon's self-loathing is to strong for that, that's why he's copying a movie couple to allow himself some emotions.

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>And then we'll have recon stories why they never tried to recuit the Wasp!
But I want them to try to recruit the Wasp. And also throw in Shathra's kids for good measure.

Honestly, Spider-man's problem isn't all the mystical bullshit. It's that the mystical bullshit was so poorly explained in the first fucking place that writers have used it as an excuse to do whatever the fuck they want. It's become like time travel for the X-men. At this point the cancer can only be confined, not killed. Lay down some fucking ground rules and it won't be nearly as much of a problem.

Who is Venom's archnemesis now?

People who says Ock is not even close tobeing his Nemesis should read more comics.
And just because Slott really likes him doesn't mean you should hate on him.

That incredible a-lister villain, Jack o Lantern!

Eddie's dad

Thematically? Vulture.

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Look I don't mind if Pete has to try to deal with small time magic stuff in New York - Strange's often to caught up in major magic bullshit anyway - but the trick is that while "science" in comics ought to try for a logical reasoning, or call on some rules of nature to have some weight to it, fantasy elements need motifs and themes to work with a hero. Spidey got them with his guilt/responsibility, hiding his true identity and what not, but it'd take better writers to make it work beyond "yum tasty spider".

>hiding his true identity
Civil War was a decade ago user

Pumpkin bombs and bat-shaped devices that allow for sonic attacks plus the glider would give old Jackie a good leg up. And slime monster vs. pumpkin man would look good on page.

Spidey had strange magic his identity hidden again.

Apologies if I didn't word it right, but while currently MJ's in the know, he still gotta hide what he's doing from employers and regular friends.

>Then we'll have a Bug War event down the line!
They already did a bug war event. That was literally the Spider-Girl book during Spider Island.

If it doesn't resurrect Abe Jenkins as original Beetle and pits him against the current holder of the identity, Janice Lincoln, I'm not interested.

Rent

Doc Ock for banging Aunt May in every alternate reality.

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>bring back
Abner's off heroing with the Thunderbolts although he's currently "dead" (maximum air quotes implied here).

Honestly if they bring back any Beetle to fight Janice it should be fucking Leila. They already brought her husband back.

I don't get this mentality.
A guy running round in a goblin costume murdering, torturing and throwing bombs is way creepier than a generic hulking green monster.
Check out that Raimi original goblin mask.

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>Noman is one of the biggest POS in 616

Truest shit I've ever read.

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This.
It's what makes Spidey's rouges galleries one of the best. There's a diverse sets of not just abilities but also attitudes and personalities; you've got your monsters, your worthy opponents, your tragic villains, your mobsters, your career criminals, your career criminals who you'd team up with occasionally, your career criminals who are just dicks, your complete jokes, your whatever Mysterio is etc.

If everyone was an unrepentant threat, or if everyone was a sympathetic tragedy, every Spider-man story would be the same.

It’s just biasness, but I just can’t count Morlun as a Spidey rogue. His affects on Peter’s life come down to soulless events that nobody likes. At least the Jackal has had the odd good story, and started off more of a straightforward nemesis that developed into a mad scientist. Morlun is just “Hurr I eat Spiders”

>blonde
>victory
>death
He died and emptied his bowels in that costume and then Harry put it on didn't he?

>but Harry Goblin has decades of him fucking with Pete
There where two stories (three I guess if you count the post-mortem stuff) and there was literally over a decade between the first two storylines where Harry was just an ordinary family man who kept getting bothered by other knock offs

I do kind of er on whether to count him as an arch-villain. When he was active absoloutely, but those time where relatively short lived.
As they should be, Harry was a tragic threat and using his Goblin too many times would undermine that.

>Harry having to disinfect and take the costume to the dry cleaners before setting out on any vengeance plot
Don't tell Norman

>A guy running round in a goblin costume murdering, torturing and throwing bombs
It's not realistic though. I can't take this seriously.

Powerlevels are the cancer that's killing superhero comics. It's easy to give a character vast cosmic powers; it's near-impossible to give him an appropriately alien mind and still keep him relatable. Part of what makes Spidey's rogues gallery good is that it's probably the least affected by power creep.

Innovation.

>Two stories

>ASM 136-137
>ASM 176-180
>SSM 180-183
>SSM 189-190
>SSM 199-200

By the way, there’s a reason each of those are multiple issues, unlike most one offs with Kraven. Harry always went further than Peter’s other enemies, and almost every bout had repricussions.

Deadpool blew his brains out.

Then again, he later showed up in the same prison as Steve Rogers.

Could be another one, though.

>if superior was good

It's Uncle Ben shitty advice locking Peter into a lifetime of emotional guilt. Ever noticed how he's always better off when he abandons it?

>Oldfag answer
Otto
>Modern answer
Norman
>90s manchild answer
Venom
>Shitty banter answer
Slott, Quaseda, 'life', and other bad jokes.
>Wrong answers
Anything else

The impending doom of Spencer eventually fucking up his run

ASM 176-180 was Hamilton Goblin.

I always considered the SSM #180-200 to be three parts of one larger story. Like you said, they're not one offs and lead into each other.
For those issues, Harry!GG was certainly Peter's arch-enemy, but I don't know if that means he should be on the big list. If anything he's kind of different from the rest of Spidey's rouge's gallery.
And that's the way it should be.

>rhino was able to stop the Juggernaut once with his bare hands
I'm going to need a source for that one buddy.

176-180 was both of them.

Being different doesn’t alter his impact. He literally started off his career by bombing Peter’s apartment.

Then leave this board.

Macendale was the original jack. Several people used the uniform.