In Liu of Captain Marvel premiering in just a few days, let's have a thread on the best Marvel girl, Scarlet Witch Best run?Favorite appearance/incarnation, current whereabouts and why you like her?
Super Sunday: Marvel Edition
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now that Carol has a new editor, will they talk again?
>Best run?
There's more than one?
To this day I will never understand the A)Hateboner for Vison's and Wanda's relationship and B)The hate that Wanda gets in general from the Marvel staff/
robosexual relationships are a sin
That started with Byrne. And Bendis followed with what Byrne did cause he was a Byrne fanboy.
More delicious brown Wanda.
I know but it seems very strange as to why they single her out of all the supers to use as their editorial punching bag. It honestly would have made more sense if Jean did it, but then again she was dead, I think, maybe.
I'm annoyed that Wanda didn't get a push after her appearances in the movies.
CarolWanda bump.
Tumblr, go home and stop trying to turn Yea Forums's waifus brown, you absolute degenerate.
Byrne didn't see Vision as a person, so wrote the Avengers as if they didn't either. Nobody fixed them because most writers and editors who followed Byrne seemed to agree with him, and pushed Wanda with Wonder Man instead. No writer that wanted to reunuite Wanda and Vision lasted long enough to finish the job.
Adi Granov is working on this variant cover to an upcoming book, but it's probably just a cover with nothing to do with the story.
Bendis, Brevoort and Quesada seemed to believe no readers cared about Wanda, and talked about being shocked by the level of outrage they were seeing from Avengers fans for what they did to her. Brevoort had been editor on Avengers for over 7 years by the time of Disassembled and House of M, and he had no idea that Avengers fans love Wanda. Let that sink in. Then look at how the X-books turned her into a pariah after House of M. It all looks like everyone at Marvel actually believed that she was a character they could permanently destroy, and get away with it because fans wouldn't care.
Years later, when Remender killed Wanda and Rogue in one issue of Uncanny Avengers, he couldn't understand why fans lost it, or why there was no similar outrage for Wonderman dying in the same issue.
If Whedon hadn't wanted to use Wanda and Vision in the MCU, Marvel would probably never have brought them back.
gonna be so mad and sad when Vision dies in No Road Home after they get a final touching moment
It's honestly amazing how completely out of touch some writers and editors are
To think they actually thought Wonderman had more fans than Wanda
>I'm annoyed that Wanda didn't get a push after her appearances in the movies.
This book would never have existed if Robinson hadn't pitched for it. Literally all anyone else planned for her was to fight MCU synergy by pairing her up with Wonder Man and then Brother Voodoo, while giving Vision two new families.
>and then Brother Voodoo
God I'd forgotten about that. Is Zub still pushing for that shit?
she mentioned they were going slow in No Road Home. I'm constantly praying we get perfect Scarlet Vision back. The lack of Voodoo in No Road Home worries me on that front though
Byrne basically threw Wanda and Vision under a bus for Wonderman. The story of Vision having his mind erased, of Wanda losing her husband and children, it's not about what happens to him afterwards, it's not about how she copes, it's about Wonderman's unrequited love angst. A lot of people who've worked for Marvel since then seem to be stuck in the mentality that he's the more important and popular character of the three. He had his own solo book in the 1990s, so they probably think that justifies their belief.
More like they wished they could be the rich, handsome movie star with super powers so they focused more on him
Even though it had too much sleeping with Wonder Man and the fetish costume was ridiculous, the Busiek/Pérez run was where I fell in love with the character, which is not surprising considering the first two years are mostly about her, and both creators have a giant crush on her (Busiek just recently said his three favorite Avengers are Hawkeye, Vision and Wanda and I think you could guess).
She was less of a focus in the rest of the run but came roaring back in JLA/Avengers, where Pérez made her the focus of scenes that really aren't about her, and even drew her having the last word of any of the heroes. Basically you give George a plot and he'll send you back lots of Wanda drawings.
#1 of No Road Home has her talking to Hawkeye about her plans to start living with Jericho. We know that in #9, "On Euphoria, the Wishing World, the Avengers come face-to-face with their own desires", which could lead to a Wanda/Vision moment, or Waid, Zub and Ewing could continue to force the idea that she's moved on.
Duggan's taking Voodoo away from Zub, to be part of his Savage Avengers book, which starts after No Road Home ends. So far, Hulk is the only member of the NRH cast scheduled to appear anywhere after the series ends.
Never have I wished harder for Waid and Ewing's Marvel History Powers to save us
Also in spite of an artist (Michael Ryan) who had no idea how to draw her Pérez-created costume, her appearance in Jurgens' "Thor" is my favorite Wanda guest shot. Busiek kept her power levels pretty low except when she was hopped up on DC Universe magic, but Jurgens just went nuts and had her do mass teleportation, beat Asgardian sorcerers, and smugly call out Odin for his anti-mortal racism.
Wanda is one of those characters who almost never gets to be super-awesomely powerful unless she's about to be punished for it, so that was a fun change of pace where she was basically Zatanna to Thor's Superman.
Every iteration of the Wanda/Wonderman is written as 'Wanda needs to realize she's in love with a man she sees as a friend'. There's so much beta orbiter stuff, and so much of him complaining about Vision, that it feels more like they identify with him so much because they've been that guy who befriended a hot girl who wouldn't sleep with them, and this is why they write Vision to be unlikeable as well.
It's similar to how every married couple in comics gets broken up not just for drama, but because they just can't conceive idea of a happy, loving marriage that lasts, and thinking about it makes them feel bad about themselves.
Waid is unlikely to be the one to save them. He wrote an issue where Vision voluntarily deleted his emotions in front of Wanda, and the Secret Empire tie-in where they're sneaking away to have sex in the back of the Quinjet, but she's possessed by Chthon, and he's been reprogrammed by Hydra.
I will say this, I think Wonder Man has had a big enough presence in the last 20 years of Marvel that I think Brevoort must really like the guy. He hasn't been big, but especially given that the MCU hasn't bothered to use him yet except for a throwaway gag, he just keeps getting used. Bendis used him in two different Avengers books, the safari-jacket version in Mighty Avengers and then as the guy who (rightly) blames all the crappy events of the '00s on the Avengers.
Even though her sleeping with Simon in 1999-2000 was just a false lead to keep her away from Vision (Busiek personally likes Vision way better than Simon) I think maybe some people decided, à la Byrne, that they liked Simon better. Possibly Brevoort and/or Remender are among them.
My favorite example of Pérez's Wanda-fetish: in JLA/Avengers we see the JLA attacked by Terminus and the Avengers by Starro. Batman comes up with a plan for the JLA to pool their talents and beat Terminus. Vision comes up with a plan for Wanda to beat Starro all by herself.
Waid's treatment of Vision, and Viv for that matter, is infuriating.
Then in part 3 her magic becomes the MU equivalent to the Green Lantern ring.
That whole crossover is the end of an era for Marvel/DC in so many ways.
>Even though her sleeping with Simon in 1999-2000 was just a false lead to keep her away from Vision
Back in the 1970s and 1980s, even up to the mid 1990s, writers understood that they could write love triangles, but if the character in the middle of the triangle has sex with the 'wrong' one, this is permanent lasting damage you can't undo without retcons. Somehow writers forgot to stop themselves from going too far, and the scenes of Vision watching them from a distance go into cuckold fetish territory.
>(Busiek personally likes Vision way better than Simon)
This is oddly something he might say, but doesn't bear any relation to what he wrote, except a few pages of JLA/Avengers which show how well he could have written Vision and Wanda together if he'd wanted to.
> I think maybe some people decided, à la Byrne, that they liked Simon better. Possibly Brevoort and/or Remender are among them.
Contrast Remender's interview before Wonderman joined the team, with what he actually wrote, and with his later interviews. At first he talked about his feelings for Wanda being closer to an unhealthy obsession than to love, and his pacifism meaning that his role would be the team's publicist, he would refuse to leave his office and help the team. Instead of that, he became a man who uses his invulnerability to fight defensively and never throw a punch, while Remender pushed the idea that he and Wanda belonged together because he was 'the real Vision'. Did someone make him change his plans?
Some of this may also have to do with giving Pérez what he wants to draw (writers understandably fall over to keep him happy). Busiek originally wanted Vision and Wanda to have a smaller role in the first year but Pérez really wanted to draw both of them because they're his faves, and that's how we wound up with that weird thing where Vision was a hologram for most of the years.
>Waid's treatment of Vision, and Viv for that matter, is infuriating.
When Champions readers asked Waid on Twitter which members of the team would be gay, he couldn't say "none of them", could he?
When Waid had the High Evolutionary give Viv a human body, she couldn't be allowed to be White, could she?
Viv couldn't be a teenage hero in the current year and not be woke and talk about microaggressions, could she?
Wonder Man rules and I love the stuff in WCA and Scarlet Witch and Vision of him and Viz accepting each other as brothers.
They are unlikely to be in Endgame for long, so what are your hopes for their series?
>hopes for their series
ditch scarlet witch and do an adaptation of king's vision
Please no. Much as I like Viv, King's Vision was terrible
>him and Viz accepting each other as brothers.
Byrne killed that, and they can't go back. Busiek writing him as acting like he was still Vision's brother and friend made him look like an idiot or worse, like he had no concept of anyone else's feelings.
Why would you come into a Wanda Thread and speak this madness?
Wanda learning about/discovering magic.
A healthy adult cute relationship
faggot
After all they went through already, hoping for it to be more fun and domestic than dark and angsty. Flashbacks to cover the development their relationship from Age of Ultron up to Infinity War would be good.
Disney probably see this series as a way to introduce Wiccan or Viv, but it would be better for them to start a family as a season 2 or 3 storyline, just give them more focus to themselves to begin with.
>Pérez
My one regret about JLA/Avengers is we never got a Scarlet Witch vs. Zatanna faceoff, just a couple of panels that the writer didn't even bother to dialogue.
The unfinished '80s JLA/Avengers that Jim Shooter canceled because he thought the plot sucked, had a scene where Zatanna has Wanda on the ropes until Starfox uses his rapey powers on Zatanna, allowing Wanda to win.
OK fine, the plot did suck, but now we'll never see them face off officially.
Nobody can compare to Wanda, she's just undeniably the best
Wanda's costume looks fucking stupid. There, I said it. Only thing worth keeping is the crimson corset
Big Wanda is best Wanda
The only good thing to come from Civil War 2
Imagine if she was the one getting a movie and a massive push to prepare the world for her defeating Thanos
>in liu
>liu
Stopped reading right there
No more Carolshipping
People would still be screaming about muh SJWs, with the exception that she doesn't have a crazy fucking twitter history to point at and laugh
Also she has nice feets
>Best run?
Like most 1970s and 1980s comics, it's dated now, but Englehart's 1970s Avengers. It's where she took control of her life and her powers, learned magic and defied her brother to pursue a relationship with Vision, all culminating in her becoming a true witch, and getting married. His 1980s Vision & Scarlet Witch series strikes a balance between superhero action and comfy domestic fun, although it did do a lot of damage to Quicksilver and Crystal.
>Favorite appearance/incarnation
The worst irony is that for all the harm he did her, Byrne was the best at making Wanda look like the most beautiful woman that had ever been
The closest anyone can ever get to sleeping with Wanda
Her best stuff sadly has yet to be written, as writers have squandered her potential.
Best stories are Nights of Wundagore and Serpent Crown Affair. Childrens Crusade has some of the best Wanda art. I think No Road Home has the potential to be her best story in years.
The Vision & Scarlet Witch Disney Plus series, if the leaks are true, could be awesome, with Agatha, Chthon, Wundagore, Erik Williams, and Simon Williams (remember those Nathan Fillion GotG2 deleted Easter eggs?) showing up, it has the potential to be Daredevil tier.
It's curious because Wanda and Vision is an allegory of interracial relationships, so what does that say about the people who hate it so much?
Robinson only got the book greenlit by reminding them Wanda is in the MCU (yes, he had to point it out to them), and Whedon pushed to get Wanda and Vision into the MCU at a time when it was still hesitant about more "outlandish" characters.
That story managed to use Wanda, Vision, Thor, and Chthon in just about the most lazy and insulting way imaginable.
Has anyone even called Thor out on that shit yet? He knowingly went along with having two of his friends being mind controlled
Comic editors and writers when pairing characters together as a couple always go for superficial similarities. Powers, costumes, and so on. So since Scarlet Witch and Brother Voodoo are both magicians and deal with the occult, they think it's a perfect pairing. That's probably why they're so opposed to Scarlet Witch and Vision being together. How come a witch and a robot are getting it on?
It's been forgotten even though there's no way people would have let it pass.
No, more Carolshipping.
I think Endgame will be a tiny footnote between Infinity War and the D+ series.
I think Vision will be White and emotionless when Shuri reboots him. Vision will still have his memories, and he will remember being in love with Wanda, but be unable to feel it, causing PTSD and a desire to regain what he has lost.
As shown in Infinity War, Wanda and Vizh were wanting to make a life together, so they will likely do that in the D+ series.
If the leaks are to be believed, Wanda attempts to infuse Vision with life, and an "evil spirit" possesses him. Key Point: Vision, in order to be possessed, would need to have a soul, so he would thus regain his humanity. Chthon doing this via Wanda's attempt to restore Vision would make sense; it's him "helping" Wanda, "blessing" Vision.
The Russos said that Wanda is on a journey away from humanity, Vision toward it.
If the hostile neighbour becomes Grim Reaper, he is Erik Williams, brother of Simon Williams, whom appeared in scenes that were cut from GotG2.
I would think Simon would be the friend to Wanda and Vizh, the person who supports them, and instead of Wanda banging Simon, Chthon tricks Vision into thinking that when no such thing happens.
Erik is against Wanda and Vision, and manipulates the locals into turning against them, and Chthon makes Vision do creepy shit to stir shit up (all this pushes Wanda away from her humanity by making her feel isolated).
Agatha Harkness arrives, and she guides Wanda, and teaches her about her powers, and exposits about the Elder Gods. She injects humour alongside seriousness. She genuinely cares for Wanda and Vision and is determined to thwart Chthon.
Chthon making Erik into Grim Reaper would make Vision, in a sense, his brother.
The question is, will they interact at all in Endgame?
>more interaction in Endgame than in the past seven years of comics
Yes!
Has Marvel re-retconned Wanda and Pietro back into being Magneto's children yet?
No, and the Magneto retcon was dumb and it should be forgotten anyway.
>Magneto retcon
Which one? Were those two not his kids originally?
She's an introvert who doesn't quip, and isn't a cocky badass type; Marvel is full of those because they are easier to write. She's thus alot harder to write, which lazy writers resent, so her complexity and earnestness gets turned into crazy.
The way she's been handled in comics over the past 15 years has been mostly pretty awful, often used by writers as a plot device for other characters (look at how many people want her to be used as a mutant popping machine in the MCU).
Likewise Vision for much of the past two decades, talks like a second rate Shockwave, and is depicted as a flat generic android by most writers, erasing all his complexity.
The thing about Wanda and Vision is that they make sense as a couple, but not in an obvious way. The symmetry is more subtle.
It's beyond retarded that she's never got to truly fight Chthon, for example, that's like Cap never facing Red Skull, or Surfer never meeting Galactus.
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No, they weren't his kids originally. The timeline is:
- In the '60s they were just two random Eastern European orphans who didn't know who their parents were
- In the '70s Roy Thomas wrote an Avengers story that revealed their real parents were the Whizzer and Miss America (because Roy is fanatically obsessed with the Golden Age)
- At the end of the '70s Mark Gruenwald decided to do a story that would make sense of their crazy origins and reveal the Whizzer and Miss America weren't their parents; the artist on the story, John Byrne, suggested that their real father should be Magneto, pointing to a Neal Adams story where Mags took off his helmet and had hair similar to Quicksilver's. Byrne also drew/plotted an X-Men page around the same time showing that Magneto's late wife looked exactly like Wanda (well, all Byrne's women look exactly alike, but you get the idea).
- The first Vision & the Scarlet Witch miniseries in the early '80s finally had Wanda/Pietro/Magneto discover he was their dad.
Unfortunately this was also the time when Chris Claremont decided to make Magneto a Holocaust survivor, which fucks up the timeline of when they were born.
she's actually the only female in the current MCU that could stand against thanos with a reasonable motivation. too bad she got dusted
Meanwhile, Carol will come in and be the big hero out of nowhere because she is the bestest and strongest.
> White hair
Hang on...isn't there someone else with white hair?
Byrne is also responsible for the Magneto retcon? That man was a blight on the twins
It says a lot about comics writers and editors that they don't understand Vision as a concept, and it says a lot about the Tumblrs who consider the allegory offensive because they're stupid enough to think that the people writing it were saying minorities are exactly like robots.
wanda is lucky to have such a strong, protective girlfriend.
You have to go back.
shoo toaster-lovers
I've noticed that a few Huge Wanda Fans don't love the current Kevin Wada costume, but it's honestly my favorite new superhero costume I've seen in the past couple decades.
I know it toes the line of being hokey, and every other artist doesn't bother to draw it because there's too much detail, but I love the head jewelry take on the tiara. Maybe it's because I'm from a part of the world where most of the different traditional cultures have crazy-weird head jewelry, but I really like the attempt to ground her in her heritage with those accents.
On the other hand, some of the biggest Romani visual stereotypes are those headpieces with the coins on them, so I get why it might seem kitschy or bad.
But the rest of the costume just feels really sharp without being boring, and I love the cloak. I hope it sticks around for a while.
Only one ongoing, but there's the DnA miniseries and the two "Vision &" series, and I think you can obviously count Avengers runs here, too.
I'll check them out.
and I love Wada Wanda. Wonder how it would look with the Perez curls.
>People would still be screaming about muh SJWs,
She's an unusual character as far as SJW types don't like her as she is, they want to remake her into something they do like. They want her to be a Representation Character, so they put a lot of emphasis on how important it is that she was half-Roma, used to be a mutant, used to be half-Jewish, and her history's potential for poverty/oppression-fetishization. They're the people who want her to somehow become brown, and cried 'whitewashing' when the MCU cast a white actress for her. They're the people who want to ignore the specific context of her "love is for souls, not bodies" line, how it's about her not caring about Vision's condition, and instead use it as an excuse to make her bisexual.
The actual Wanda in comics has no time for identity politics, or wallowing in victimhood and oppression, so they can't understand her at all, she may as well be an alien to them. They literally can't accept that she chose to give up her career as an Avenger to retire and become a mother, and convince themselves that Vision somehow forced her into it.
Despite the changes to her origin and powers, the MCU version, as already established, is closer to Wanda in the comics than to what the SJWs want her to be.
>with the exception that she doesn't have a crazy fucking twitter history to point at and laugh
The marketing and promotion for a movie could still go overboard on the girl power, but having cast someone with the sense to not try and alienate half of her audience would help a lot. It's harder to get a resistance movement going against a likeable star that's not telling you this movie isn't for you. Done correctly, she's a power-fantasy for the female audience, and a romantic fantasy for the male audience.
> Also she has nice feets
It's all about that smile, though.
The fact that she is the last hero to say anything in JLA/Avengers is pretty poignant considering it was 2004 and she was just about to be nuked from orbit by Marvel (unlike Hal Jordan who was just about to be saved at DC).
I just noticed that she's petting Vision's head (he was nearly killed in the final battle and nobody on the Marvel side cared because they all knew he could be rebuilt like always). Awww.
>(he was nearly killed in the final battle and nobody on the Marvel side cared because they all knew he could be rebuilt like always).
This was probably why there was such a lack of reaction to his death during Disassembled, compared with all the other outrage that story caused. The Big 2 had been doing this to Vision and Red Tornado so much that nobody would have believed he wouldn't be back until 2011.
>but having cast someone with the sense to not try and alienate half of her audience
That's my point in more words yeah
>It's all about that smile, though
Her smile could stop wars
also dat laugh youtube.com
Like the Uncanny Avengers costume, it's a costume that looks like Marvel attempting to create a design for the MCU to use, but not as good as the ones the MCU actually did use. It just doesn't look as 'superheroine' as her classic costume, comics can go larger than life than costumes you can do in live action, some of us want them to embrace that. Red and pink just works better for Wanda than red and black. It makes her stand out, it's so definitively her and nobody else, while plenty of characters wear red and black.
It's one of the modern costumes that gets complained about on Yea Forums because people who are angry about modern Marvel see it as tied to Marvel's heroine breast-reductions and de-sexualization (a few artists like Brooks and Bachalo have tried to fight that without changing her costume), and to the efforts to change Wanda & Pietro's skin color to appease Tumblr, which has led some fans to think that retconning them into being half-Roma in the 1980s was a mistake.
>but not as good as the ones the MCU actually did use
Utter bullshit. Especially the Civil War suit. The one she had at the very end of Aou was decent.
23 is overrated bare minimum generic garbage.
24 & 25 are much better.
Take 24 and give it 10's black legs, more detailed boots and the skirt and I think we have a winner.
For the Witch/Vision tv show or the rumored all female team up movie they need to give Wanda one of these 2.
NOTE: Swap Carol for Hela's actual physical suit. Carol's outfit is too baggy.
Not a great picture of 25 (my favorite) but 24 is good too
Does anyone know what issues/series 18 comes from? I like that alot.
Insane, it's her only good costume. He made the headpiece work!!
also her and Viz are like super obviously a metaphor for various types of relationships and relationship struggles. They got their house burned down bc of bigotry
10, 14, 17, 18, 20, 24, 25 are my favorites not in any specific order.
She wore it from Avengers vol.3 #38 to #55.
Going to stay with the classics, 3, 6, 10, 13, 20.
Will this be a variant cover for No Road Home, or will it be for something that comes after?
Look closely at this cover, is Wanda going to be blinded for the whole story? A "Wanda loses her vision" story is surely too on the nose to just be a coincidence.
>Her smile could stop wars
What is 26, 27B, and 29 from? I've never really read any stories with Wanda.
I do like the pink and red BUT I think a black and red look works every once-in-a-while. I feel like the extremely bad and lazy 90s costume and Ultimates soured longtime fans on the color scheme, which is fair.
As for it being a pitch for an MCU costume, it feels more like an attempt to make the MCU costume work in an actual superhero comic. It reintroduces iconic elements like the tiara, the cape, and the M-motif, it makes the central costume sleeker and less busy. It uses real gloves instead of tacticool fingerless ones. Compared to poor Elektra, who got all her iconography shaved off in favor of what looks like a mook's get-up, I think she's a lot better off.
Also I don't even know what you're saying about tits, that Wada illustration has generous cleavage. Different artists will choose to do different amounts of cheesecake pandering, like always. Also Wanda is getting drawn more white than ever after the Olsen casting? She's much more pale now than she was when Acuna was drawing her during the launch of Uncanny Avengers.
18 is underrated
26 is from the Ultimate Universe and 27B is a variant cover for Ultimates 3 but Wanda never actually wears it. Idk about 29
She is a fucking goddess
Scarlet Witch really is the best female avenger. Just shitty she didn't get much screen time
Are Wanda and Conan in the Serpent Seas?
In Robinson's solo, Tula Lotay and Joelle Jones both seemed to be somewhat influenced by Olsen.
29 is from some recent Age of Apocalypse related book.
>I feel like the extremely bad and lazy 90s costume
Which one?
9? 10 is bordering on great, I just needed cleavage.
Combine 20, 23, and 24, and you have a potentially perfect costume.
I like the idea of Agatha taking her to New Salem and giving her a new costume.
It makes no sense at all to have one of the characters with the most to fight for get killed off by the Snap. It also makes no sense to do an MCU version of White Vision without her there.