Why Did The New Age Of Heroes Fail?
>Artists! It's about ARTISTS!
>Artists? We never said it was about artists?
>Lack of advertising and uninteresting stories
>Almost all were tied to the Metal Event which it's ramifications have since taken a back seat to make way for Heroes in Crisis
People don't like new things, just what's old and familiar. Also a lot of normies saw the Marvel-inspired characters as poor form.
This but unironically, No one was buying these for the artist. Everyone was focused on it being a marvel pastiche.
>Lack of advertising
Well that's not true at all. I distinctly remembered dozens of in house ads for these series in several comics.
Dark universe shit
Masterclass artists for one and a half issues
Marvel ripoffs that had to be amazing for people to not keep bringing it up
>Marvel ripoffs
It's called a pastiche you fucking moron.
Well, I don't believe it's a total loss right now. Silencer got some play outside of comics in CW, and reaction to Sideways seems pretty positive at the moment. The team books are flops though, and Damage and Brimstone will probably be z-listers in a few years.
Why when marvel does a ripoff of a dc character it gets success while when dc does it is a complete failure. Is it the famous marvel magic?
Because they've done it before 2000
I feel like there's no cause and you have to look at it as case by case situation. Can you even say The Silencer or The Terrifics failed? What about Damage or Sideways? Even the obscure Curse of Brimstone made it to twelfth issue. They all managed to build up an adequate world.
What does that mean?
Didn't you hear? Comics are propaganda now.
Mostly this, every book had big shot artists at the beginning that eventually left. The only upside for Damage was Tony S. Daniel and he only did the first issues.
KenRoc is was the only one who sticked to his book.
I really think that's not the case at all and that no one was buying these books for the artists.
Wherever readers gonna like hero or not is lottery. Sometimes you can have perfect art and good story yet readers won't hook in. And other time character with shitty art and retarded plot becomes all-time favourite.
You can't simply shove two dozens of no-names with interconnected stories and expect all of them become celebs at once.
Shit advertising. The only one surviving is Silencer, and she's appearing on ARROW. I really hope they return to Sideways at some point, because I did enjoy his book. Brimstone and Terrifics were fine too. Not sure what their future holds, or where they'll pop up. I think another factor is that new characters need to appear in cartoons, shows, and movies to gain a following anymore.
I was enjoying it so Im hoping it suceeded
>not liking damage
The Terrifics was an amazingly well done nod to classic FF. But wow damage was a refreshing return to 70's/80's Hulk books. I even like his design.
user, I...
did it really die? I was hoping terrifics and damage would atleast make it. Plus sideways seemed to garner some popularity, so keeping them around would be nice fuck.
How the fuck could you stomach Damage? I dropped it issue 3 because every installment boiled down to "Damage vs ____, OH MY GOD HOW COULD HE POSSIBLY BEAT THAT CHARACTER?!?!?" rinse repeat
As far as I know the terrifics and the silencer the only ones not cancelled.
Practically all of them are ending on #13, save Silencer I believe.
I was expecting these to be a success but it was fun to see an attempt. This was when DC was riding high on the Rebirth train and Marvel was pushing everyone away. Then Alonso gets booted out and is replaced by Cebulski and Johns goes to Hollywood and Didio takes his place. So Marvel got better and DC got worse.
They really needed to have more issues done by the artists they got at the launch.
I also think this line would've been more effective if it were released in 2016 or early 2017, back when Marvel didn't have a regular Fantastic Four book. By the time the line launched Marvel was already announcing plans to bring the full Fantastic Four back.
Because that's literally what 70's hulk comics used to be user. That shit can be fun, and it's better than what marvel has to offer, which is literally fucking nothing.
well shit , this really sucks ass. I guess people werent into pastiche stuff, which is a shame because I live for classic marvel/silver age pastiche stuff. 1963 is still my favorite comic.
Bendis stole all the artists to do Man of Steel to test which he wanted to keep for the Superman and AC.
One problem I think is that the designs are kind of a little bland in that promo pic. Color-scheme wise, Metamorpho is the one that stands out because of his unusual color scheme, and also the guy glowing green in the front that I forget the name of.
I'm actually surprised at people took offense to them being Marvel pastiche, labeling them as knockoffs and questioning why they even need to exist.
Those are either shills or people too young to remember even JMS' take on Squadron Supreme, much less Gruenwald's and Roy Thomas'.
Bendis ? The writer ?
I feel like normalfags cant understand the point of pastiche because they havent enjoyed the medium enough to understand the purpose of pastiche. A reference to silver age marvel doesnt make sense to someone who hasnt read silver age marvel essentially. Also yeah, I can agree with how generic the promo looks, I think they used too much purple. The terrifics and sideways are the only characters that really stand out. It's odd that damage is purple too because he's grey in the books. That being said, I couldnt get into immortal men or brimstone. Challengers was kind've underwhelming as well.
>also the guy glowing green in the front that I forget the name of.
His name was Ghost fist.
People don't want new characters. Proof being that The Terrifics was the best seller
>Why when marvel does a ripoff of a dc character it gets success
Because you're a blind faggot? Aquaman has eclipsed Namor entirely like X-Men did to the Doom Patrol.
>I feel like normalfags cant understand the point of pastiche because they havent enjoyed the medium enough to understand the purpose of pastiche
I still think it takes a real no-fun mentality where you have to balk at the idea.
Yeah I know what you mean, especially when you can really tell how much love went into the end result.
Poor Kenneth Roccafort, he actually went out of his way to create a brand new Spider-man.
>People don't like new things, just what's old and familiar.
true this
>Also a lot of normies saw the Marvel-inspired characters as poor form.
Normies don't care about console wars. They want to know when Clark and Bruce are going to team up with the Avengers, so that Tony and Steve can join them on a Sunday Brunch date together.
>>Almost all were tied to the Metal Event
Mostly this
aka Stupid Garbage Event is Trash Tier
I think the most endearing aspect of a good pastiche is filling the same character roles with a different character, who not only has different abilites, a different back story, but entirely new abilities or stand out appearances. That's why sideways works as a spidey pastiche for me. He's visually different, he can stand on his own, and he's got his own legs to stand on next to his abilities. The Fury is a similar story, probably why him and N-man are my two favorites from the 63 line up.
>>Almost all were tied to the Metal Event which it's ramifications have since taken a back seat to make way for Heroes in Crisis
>>>Almost all were tied to the Metal Event
>Mostly this
>aka Stupid Garbage Event is Trash Tier
That doesn't matter at all. Ennis' Hitman was created as a result of Bloodlines and nobody gave a shit that his origin was tied to a bad crossover.
That's because Bloodlines didn't linger, Dark Knights:Metal did with The Batman who laughs making appearances in two separate titles. I don't think it was mere coincidence that the immortal men and the unexpected were the titles that got cancelled first.
THEY LOOK GENERIC as fuck. Every single one of them. Didn't help that the new heroes looked nothing like a DC character... they look like they belong in Wildstorm or Image in the 90's.
>launch a line of comics
>don't even a put a single decent writer on it
>it's better than what marvel has to offer
>he says while Marvel is publishing the best Hulk run since PAD
>THEY LOOK GENERIC as fuck.
I disagree, they all look very distinctive.
Immortal Men was a bait and switch. In Metal is was the illuminati with immortal characters, that's the story i wanted to read, not the weird OC brigade that they tried to bamboozle me with.
I remember not being a fan of Brimstone's art.
Damage is okay, but it's basically "Who is Damage going to punch this week?" Kind of tiresome.
Silencer seems to be thriving. Leviathan is apparently a thing now since Bendis is putting it in Action Comics.
The Terrifics is good.
Completely forgot that the Challengers of the unknown got cancelled and I never noticed.
Sideways was pretty cute. They'll probably toss him onto Young Justice whenever Bendis realizes that nobody wanted Teen Lantern and that it shouldn't be a thing.
Pretty sure I'm forgetting one more. There was one about a woman whose heart was some werid energy engine but I forgot the name of it.
>Best Hulk comic since PAD
>Is a poor man's Bruce Jones run.
It was the unexpected and it also was a bait and switch, by the end of the first issue half of the team was dead and the other spent the rest of the series fighting a Hawkman villain.
>That's because Bloodlines didn't linger,
Completely untrue. You weren't even following DC when Bloodlines was published, were you? Right after it ended they did try to push the new heroes like Anima (who got her own series), Argus showed up in Flash and got a miniseries in 1995, hell there was even a comic called Blood Pack in 1995 which was basically a team of the new characters introduced in Bloodlines.
Hitman was really the only true success of Bloodlines up to now, unless one of those other characters gets used for a DC TV show or movie first.
So I don't buy the idea that a shitty event would harm a title that much, unless the event is extremely hated. I may dislike Metal but I've never noticed extreme hate for it outside of here in a large enough quantity that would affect sales.
Did it get cancelled too? Don't remember the last time I saw an issue in the wild.
Yeah I completely disagree man
Im sorry man, zombie hulk adventures arent cutting it for me. Nor is cho hulk or steroid jen.
70s comics were longer and had more text, and the writing flow was different too. Damage is basically Flip-O-Rama stretched over 21 pages. It's all punching basically. I can definitely see why people wouldn't like it.
I think it's a decent read. I wouldn't go out of my way to recommend it but I've still been following it. It's short and easily digestible.
No faggot I meant Bloodlines didn't make up half of the book.
>I meant Bloodlines didn't make up half of the book.
Half of what book?
I'LL say! Who's the wolf dude, and why haven't I heard bout him?
Hitman.
>It's short and easily digestible.
Yeah, Im pretty fond of damage for that reason. Just showdown shit every week, the congorilla cameo was pretty bad ass too.
>70s comics were longer and had more text, and the writing flow was different too.
I know where you're coming from, but in 2018/19 it's the closest you'll get. Not that far off really, just watered down in terms of dialog.
They failed because all of cape comics is failing. Marvel, despite their testimony and false numbers, are also failing.
Wolf girl and you probably haven't heard of her because Immortal men was canceled in 6 issues.
I just hope Derek survives and gets a solo book again. There's a lot to work with. I'd hate to see him on Young Justice given that he's a bit older than most there, and I dread to think what Bendis would do to him
>what if we do Marvel but extremely badly and uninspired?
Gee i wonder.
The most we could hope for is that they toss him, damage silencer, and the terrifics into one huge oversized 80 to 120 paged magazine that releases every few couple of months. That's best case scenario though so rip.
I honestly think Bendis getting his hand on Derek would be the best possible outcomes.
Aside from the usual difficulty of introducing new teams/characters, these were isolated from all other titles, new and old. The most any got were a forgettable cameo or two. If they got a boost from being introduced in a popular story arc like Jon Kent was before Supersons, they may have gotten more traction. The fact that there were so many popping out at once certainly did not help. Still, they can be salvaged pretty easily. Sideways has excellent utility as a teleporter in any of the team books. Silencer is easily fit into street level stories like Green Arrow and Batman stories. Brimstone and Immortal Men could have been dumped into Wonder Woman stories. Lord knows she needs them. Damage fits in Superman stories perfectly. The Terrifics could have benefited from inclusion in Green Lantern since it could have easily included space adventures. DC cosmic definitely could use space adventures outside of the rainbow corps.
HOW!? No really, the fuck are you smoking? If you're referring to his work on Miles, that was a decade ago. For years he was spinning his wheels on the character, doing jack shit, and like always, had another writer salvage his work.
I guess? I mean at least Didio, Rocafort, and Justin Jordan fleshed him out enough within 13 issues that Bendis dragging things out wouldn't affect things too much.
>how!?!
How about you pull your head out of your ass m8? Bendis does a great spider-man.
God user, you're a genius, if only DC had people like you at the helm. Every single thing you just spitballed sounds great. That being said, I actually liked how secluded the characters were for a while, it was nice.
Because DC made the line in a shameless bid to scoop up Marvel readers who were disenfranchised by Marvel's then-recent creative blunders. Since Marvel corrected their ship in the eyes of most of their readers the following year, the bid failed.
Fuck off, Bendis
I think sort of has a point. Bendis did a good Peter Parker Spider-Man on Ultimate partly because he had decades of storylines to look at and take what could work. But when he had to do a new Spider-Man from scratch with Miles, Miles didn't seem like a fully developed character. The Spider-Verse movie did a better job with that. Sideways at least has enough to him that Bendis could work with and new enough that he could add his thing to it. On the other hand if Bendis fucks up and doesn't know what happened in those comics then it wouldn't matter.
Ok, you're right on that one.
I don't know why you're so cynical about this, this isn't about stealing readers but playing around the idea of Marvel like characters in DC.
I only read Sideways out of these, and it was boring as fuck the whole time. Every issue there was a new villain so none of them had any depth at all, there were no consequences because we has to rush to the next villain, and none ever returned either. They werent even creative, one was just a fucking internet troll that got stronger for feeding him attention.
Lol yeah sure thing bud.
>Every issue there was a new villain so none of them had any depth at all, there were no consequences because we has to rush to the next villain, and none ever returned either.
To be fair, that's pretty much Ditko's Spider-Man run in a nutshell, so in that respect they were being faithful to their inspiration, even if it kinda sucked.
>No consequences
His stepmom died, user
Which I'm against.
Not him, but my other issue with the series was the pacing. We went from his mom's death, instantly to Seven Soldiers dark dimension antics (that arc sucked too), then back home to enemy porter antics, then the overarching big bads of the series die in a single issue and the finale is dedicated to Derek meeting his biological mom (which was a fucking total non-event), and the grand revelation that his mom's murderer is literally just some person.
Her death had nothing to do with him tho.
That lady who was only in maybe 11 total panels until then? The one who nobody fucking cared about, who died just because Ben died for Spidey and literally no other reason? Who's death did literally nothing to service the plot or the character at all? Yeah fuck Sideways.
He's partially right about it though; the problem in that promo is that a lot of characters are primarily wearing black and/or blue. You can have characters wearing black and/or blue, but not all of them. Sideways would stand out if he was set next to Superman, Wonder Woman, Green lantern, and Flash, but against other characters who are in black and/or blue he's not really that noticable. Like I said above, Metamorpho stands out the most, and that's because his color scheme is atypical to the more "realistic" color schemes.
Yeah that was weird. Grant Morrison wrote those issues, and it really didn't flow with everything else happening. Granted it was cool to see a lot of weird shit like Ant Superman again, but it didn't mesh well. It's also implied that the secretary was rifted into god knows where, and probably would have gotten powers as a result. Like take a look at that Venom lookalike in pic related, I think that's what they were leading towards
>The one who nobody fucking cared about, who died just because Ben died for Spidey and literally no other reason? Who's death did literally nothing to service the plot or the character at all?
Hey fuck you, buddy. I was invested. Final issue even teased they had shit planned with the mom until ultimately cut short.
It's not the fault of the character design then, it's the fault of the coloring of the ad honestly.
>The one who nobody fucking cared about,
Buddy you don't know Yea Forums at all. Motherly and wide hips is all it takes.
How'd you know she was motherly? She never got to fucking show it because he was always running to the next thing they had to rush to. You were told it in passing, never shown it. Who the fuck cares about that nobody of a character.
She was motherly though, sounds like you're just talking shit.
Literally every single time she showed up Sideways sat quietly for inner monologue or ran away immediately and didnt let her speak. It was literally a plot point that she died and he felt bad he never interacted with her. Shut the fuck up you revisionist retard.
The fuck are you talking about? She treated Derek like he was her own. And no, the plot point wasn't "They never hung out", it was him blowing her off because he was currently mad at her and felt guilt that was the last thing he said/did to her. You're the one revisioning shit.
>that new characters need to appear in cartoons, shows, and movies to gain a following anymore.
Are you suggesting comics are dead? Because needing another media for a character to stick means comics are dead.
Venom lookalike just turned out to be some random dimension lord.
Comics aren't dead they're just niche and that cartoons just reach a larger audience.
>Sideways was pretty cute. They'll probably toss him onto Young Justice whenever Bendis realizes that nobody wanted Teen Lantern and that it shouldn't be a thing.
Which is supporting characters will barely appear.
Name literally one single loving gesture from her.
>and I dread to think what Bendis would do to him
He will die and his stepbrother who is from a black father will take the mantle of Sideways!
>Shitty marketing
>Only pushing, like 4 of the books
>Headlining the big talent that only do a few issues, if even that
You have a new line of comics with artists front and center, and the big artists you advertise barely do shit in the books. It sucks too, Sideways, The Terrifics, and Silencer were all fanstastic.
>words
Oh great so exactly what I said, you're told it and not shown it at all. What you're shown is she let him run off alone and he got fucked up.
>In house
Therein lies the problem, DC (and every comicbook company, really) doesn't even try to advertise their comics. You have all these movies, shows, cartoons, social media accounts, etc. And you can't push a new line of comics with them? Really? Make fucking toys or some shit, so something to put word out.
Terrific's hasn't been cancelled yet, and is still popular, plus It's getting Gene Luen Yang on it soon, so it might get a new breath of life
With how DC's been pushing Mr. Terrific as the black guy that's not just Cyborg or the other (insert hero brand here), I can see them doing more with Terrific's soon
The Unexpected was true to its name because it turned out to be a Final Crisis: Superman Beyond continuation.
Aquaman is a joke character idiot
user are you retarded
>demanding show dont tell is retarded
>Normies don't care about console wars. They want to know when Clark and Bruce are going to team up with the Avengers, so that Tony and Steve can join them on a Sunday Brunch date together.
Normies sound fucking based.
And nothing changed after this at all. It might as well not have happened.
YOU ASKED FOR A GESTURE
SHE'S PUTTING HER HAND ON HIS DEAD AND IS CRYING
THAT'S SHOWING SOMETHING SMOOTHBRAIN
Just watch HISHE and enjoy having no taste.
All the artists left after 2 issues.
The problem is it all is in a bubble. I agree with you that they should somehow capetilize on all the medias they have in their hands.
It seems to me that everyone just sees the movie and thinks every merch is for the movie.
No, you are told how she feels and this is the best you can do because she never actually shows it. Shes an empty non character and if this is literally the only empty handwave of a "oh shit we forgot to give them a relationship, better cram in an dry fart of an attempt" you can pull up that's a whole other problem.
Normalfags tend to have a no fun allowed mentality too.
>easily angered
>thinks caps lock makes him right, so retarded
>thinks this is a loving motherly relationship
Were you abused as a kid? The signs are piling up.
Who hurt you, user?
Sideways isn't Spider-Man you dumb faggot. He has a completely different attitude and characterization than Peter, you obviously didn't read the book.
Only to retarded casuals and that's changed ever since his movie
Morrison did not write those issues, that was a meme.
Sideways is already a POC. C'mon user if you're gonna make fun of bendis at least use some logic.
Nah he's still technically correct. Bendis wants OC creations HE created. It's like when he created Riri williams when Rhodey had a niece already established
>and it's better than what marvel has to offer, which is literally fucking nothing.
It's not even better than Weapon H which features a similar premise to it.
How is it not a loving, motherly gesture?
What a waste of high quality MILF. Still, the phone messages right after Derek finds out she died were a gutpunch and a half. But hey there’s her dark multiverse version that gave him his powers.
That book was drowning in MILFs.
Hottie Checklist
>Stepmom
>Real Mom
>Best Friend
>Best Friend's Twin Sister
>Evil CEO Businesswoman
>Thiccsilver Who Has One Arm And Cancer
>Dark Universe Stepmom
Am I missing anyone?
I did and he's meant to be DC's spidey, you know what I meant user.
I know that he is latino, but we know that mostly they dont give a shit about latino, because they were slavers too.
And only black skin is visible as a minority.
Dearlois.
The secretary who killed his mom was pretty cute.
GIRL, eh? Well...gonna go dl me some issues!! But I tell ya, between this, Rahne, and Good Buy, all the interesting girls in comics keep getting cancelled or shuffled off to world peace conferences.
I think you're wrong. They were marketed as artist showcases so much that the pencillers are listed before the writers. But Rocafort is just about the only one that stuck with the schedule. They didn't actually deliver what they promised the customers so the customers abandoned them.
And that's not even counting the inertia of any new property in an already flooded market.
Honestly user I hate to disappoint but it's not worth it.
>They were marketed as artist showcases so much that the pencillers are listed before the writers.
I must have missed that.
Bendis doesn't do a great anything.
the characters considered DC rip-offs are old enough to meet the threshold of what is considered a "classic/old school" character
That makes zero zense.
Ya Seethe ladderbro ? EAT THE blu Ray
They're still Pastiche of DC heroes, which is ok. DC has Marvel Pastiches before NAoH and Marvel has DC pastiches after the 2000s.
So you're telling me Namor was obliterated by a joke? What a fucking loser!
>you must call it what I call it
It's called a rip off you insufferable fucking faggot.
>pastiche
>pastiche
>pastiche
>pastiche
>pastiche
Yeesh, sheesh, hashish, we get it faggot you learned a new word. now fuck off.
Because it was just a rehash of the New Bloods.
Did any of the books actually keep the name artists that were a major selling point at launch? I know Rocafort stuck around Sideways barring a few fills ins
Godammit Tommy
It is good to have stories uninterrupted by events and crossovers but it is damn near impossible for a new comic to succeed without some kind of introduction in either an established title or in some other media like a cartoon or movie. Introducing them in established stories also facilitates the use of the shared universe through the use of known background characters/settings. The less OCs that need to be fleshed out, the more effort can be put into making the new hero shine.
The Terrifics were boring 90% of the time.
Sideways was good, but didn't appear in any other books to help him survive.
Silencer was alright, but it never felt like it was going anywhere.
Damage was mediocre Hulk at best, but couldn't compete with Weapon H.
And I've never seen Yea Forums talk about the others aside from a few threads about Brimstone.
Bump
They said it was about the artists, to the extent that they put the artists' names first on the covers.
Then most of the artists left after a few issues.
Rotating artists for most titles every 3-4 issues until cancellation.
Wow it really was like Marvel then.
>Jeff Lemire is boring 90% of the time.
FTFY
And he's still better than 90% of other writers!
>And I've never seen Yea Forums talk about the others aside from a few threads about Brimstone.
That's because most of Yea Forums doesn't read comics, and those titles are low priority for Wednesday story time threads. Given how much of a pain in the ass it is to story time, I don't blame our kind story anons for not getting around to guys like Brimstone
I mean that's what they are, DC isn't trying to say they're brand new OCs.
>Damage and Brimstone will probably be z-listers in a few years.
They're Z listers now
That's exactly what they did. And challs already existed.
He is a walking meme. Stop this, Tommy.