I recently finished reading Clean Room, and while I did like most of it, the whole series ended on a whimper. I think I finally figured out why a lot of western comics leave me wanting.
A lot of these comics, especially under Image, are written by people who are either current or former tv writers, and the pacing shows. The story is often episodic, with little downtime between arcs and an emphasis on monster-of-the-week plots. I think a lot of the writing staff on these comics want to write their stories ad infinitum, or at least keep going until they get cancelled, which is pretty much the same thing that happens in american tv.
So you're saying sequels kneecap a self-contained story?
Dominic Scott
Japanese manga, especially shonen jump, does the same shit.
Henry Morgan
I know where you're coming from. I've described it as a holding pattern around a concept as opposed to a narrative propelled by characters. A lot of the "big names" from the last decade are very guilty of this. Hickman doesn't tell stories. He establishes a concept, represents different facets of that concept within the philosophies of his "characters" and then just walks away. His endings have always left a sour taste in my mouth because they inevitably make the preceding issues seem like a stalling tactic.
Ian Campbell
Probably because they hope they turn into a tv series.
Shonen has a specific demography that like this kind of things since the majority are about fighting. It doesn't mean all manga like that while American indies are pretty limited.
Julian Martin
>I've described it as a holding pattern around a concept as opposed to a narrative propelled by characters
I'm gonna steal this. I remember listening to a panel interview at ATX Festival where they asked the Teen Wolf panel why they won't just conclude their relationship triangles, and they replied that the show would have to end if they did. It's in all these writers' self interests to never resolve anything in their stories
Evan Baker
Because writers across all media have mostly relized that the classic three act structure is killing the goose that lays the golden egg, so fuck endings. So if you are one of those crazy people who like self-contained stories instead of premises that keep churning episodes/books/issues/whatever until it's not longer profitable, sucks to be you.
Joshua Jones
>I think I finally figured out why a lot of western comics leave me wanting. >A lot of these comics, especially under Image, are written by people who are either current or former tv writers, and the pacing shows
There's like, seven dudes that came from tv.
>The story is often episodic
Bitch, that's called ... COMICS.
>downtime between arcs and an emphasis on monster-of-the-week plots.
What comics are you even talking about here? Just Clean Room?
>I think a lot of the writing staff on these comics
You think there's a writing staff for comics? AH AHA HA HA HA!
>want to write their stories ad infinitum, or at least keep going until they get cancelled, which is pretty much the same thing that happens in american tv.
Golly gee, you mean writers would prefer a steady income from a long-term project rather than hustling constantly for work? What a brilliant insight.
>Any thoughts?
Yes. The best part of you dried up on your Momma's thigh.
Ethan Jackson
>triggered
Sebastian Ortiz
>hippie spacing >excessive edge I'm sorry you got banned from /r/comicbooks but you should lurk a little longer before attempting another grand entrance like that.
Aaron Martin
Yeah, okay. But let's see you try to refute my points.
Nolan Cooper
More than that, the people who come from the Big 2 and then leave to writer their own stories, they still write the way they did at those companies. The rules and guidelines are too hardwired in and they've just stuck telling the same type of stories, just now they don't have pre-established IP's a crutch
Gillen, Remender, Hickman, etc didn't magically get better once the left. They just don't write Hawkeye, X-Force, Avengers anymore. That's all that's changed for them
Adrian Ramirez
What points? All I see is a lot of NO NO NOOOOO
Elijah Parker
>Triggered by spacing
Adam Ortiz
You should work harder on your reading comprehension then. Then maybe they'll move you into normal kid classes.
Logan Rogers
>triggered again No wonder you read Imagay.
Benjamin Campbell
Clean Room died because it was selling around 4000 copies an issue
Nicholas Hall
Vertigo has been waiting for someone to take it out back behind the shed for years at this point. Even if the creative team owns the comic WB gets first dibs at controlling adaptations, a deal so bad even someone like Scott Snyder was taking his ideas to Image
Was it just rumor or confirmed that DC's new exclusive contracts say writers have to take creator owned ideas to Vertigo from now on?
Lucas Turner
That's because people writing these comics do it thinking they are going to be pitched as an script for a TV show.
Robert Turner
>especially shonen jump How is that related? that;s basically the capeshit of Japan and OP wanted to talk about non capeshit.
Eli Ramirez
The fact that your entire point comes down to "but think of the live action adaptation" is why comics need to die.
Jackson Morales
I read like 15 issues of East of West and the story never tried to make me interested in the characters.
Ryan Miller
>I remember listening to a panel interview at ATX Festival where they asked the Teen Wolf panel why they won't just conclude their relationship triangles, and they replied that the show would have to end if they did. It's in all these writers' self interests to never resolve anything in their stories What a copout. Even Garfield had Jon get lucky with Liz, and it's still running just fine. It's more a matter of writers who can't think of what comes next who are unable to make their stories progress. They come up with a concept, but never figure out where that concept can go, so it remains perpetually stuck in the holding pattern.
I don't mind pulp, when that's the point. Problem is a lot of modern writers are pulp hacks and don't realize it.
Nathan Brown
Except they can do whatever they want. They're not limited by what others writers do in the extended universe.
Nathan Taylor
As compared to what, a single limited genre like capeshit? You need to read more comics since Clean Room isn't even a particularly good non-capeshit comic. Hell, just avoid most things Vertigo other than the cream of the crop because the underrated ones tend to be underrated for a reason.
Gabriel Roberts
Man, you could not reveal that you're a newfag trying to fit in harder than this.
100% agree. It's only when Hickman is given a definitive deadline that it feels like he's working towards something. I enjoyed Secret Warriors because it was mostly self-contained and didn't drag on for too long. He didn't quite stick the landing with the ending but in terms of it being a fun set of stories that mix super spys, illuminati groups that shape the world, and super-powers that would make gods quiver, this shit was legit. Also probably the last solid portrayal of White Fury before he got demoted in Original Sin.
