Holy shit Wallyfags. I'm sorry...

I'm really digging Identity Crisis.
I don't get the hate? What's so terrible about this comic? Great art, great mystery...
Is the seriousness the thing that's making you all mad? It's hard for me to believe you people only want sunshine and roses stories. You can't be that simple. Why can't heroes go through very troubling things? What's wrong with exploring mental health issues?
Or is it the deaths of characters part? We don't know yet if any characters actually died. And if so, characters come back every ten issues. What's the worry?

>great mystery
No it's a terrible mystery where the red herring of Doctor Light being sue's rapist being the only thing people remember about it.

I mean, to so fully assassinate a character who is COMPLETELY IN THE RIGHT...AFTER having engineered the world against him...its so disrespectful
>replace him
>bring him back, (instead of retelling his story with new character) but deny him any legacy at all
>literally cripple him to cap his power and make sure Barry is MUHfastistmanalyve
>come up with a dumbass idea simply to turn him into a reverse flash except the entire audience loves him and agrees with him
what the fuck

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Can someone briefly explain this Heroes in Crisis shit to me as a Marvelfag? Here's all I can tell from trying to occasionally read a thread or a few books...

>New52 was pointless because of immediate Multiversity shit
>Which was pointless in the face of Rebirth
>Which was supposed to be the point of Doomsday Clock
>Which is pointless because of this event and maybe Bendis?

I thought the point of these things were supposed to make it easier for new readers, instead I'm more able to coherently digest a multi-universe academy award winning movie about spider-people.

Jean loring's motive was contradictory as fuck and her murder plan was equally convoluted.

You don't sound like someone who read comics, let alone a Marvel fanboy. Next time you want to roleplay try to remember that comic book readers are used to messed up continuity.

This how dare they have standards and not eat shit!

>Can someone briefly explain this Heroes in Crisis shit to me as a Marvelfag?
What's there to actually explain? It's a murder mystery centering around a hidden retreat for superheroes.

>implying Wallyfags have standards
Wallyfags are pissed because DC didn't crown him the one true flash while Barry sobs in a corner about how no one likes him. They want to be pandered too, they don't care about the quality or anything like that. They just want fanservice.

New 52 was the most stupid reboot i've ever seen. They kept most of Grant Morrison work on Batman and Geoff Johns work on Green Lantern canon despite known the clusterfuck it'd create on any new fans that might want to get into these franchises. It was so confusing that even long-time readers and fucking writers didn't know what was canon and what wasn't canon in regards to both franchise. Then they slowly started to retcon stuffs here and there, making it worse. Then there are other things that are just dumb. Like turning Beast Boy red. I mean, if the idea is to make it easy for new readers, why not try to keep consistency with the popular cartoon? Everyone that likes the character knows he's green, but they had him as red for a stupid as fuck reason.

The truth is that Dan Didio and Jim Lee wanted DC to be like Marvel during the 90's, and the stupid WB execs only knowing that Marvel sold a lot back then gave them a blanket check to do whatever they wanted. So every little change was arbitrarily just to make DC feel like 90's Marvel. And it was awful and dumb as fuck.

That’s funny because Williamson said in his book that Wally is the best flash ever and far better than Barry yet the fans aren’t happy. You are a retarded cancerous faggot. People want Wally because they want the flash to actually be good again.

Didn't Marvel go bankrupt in the 90s? I honestly doubt Didio and Lee was trying to follow in 90s Marvel business model.

If they didn’t have standards then they would be Barryfags

>yet the fans aren’t happy.
Because they never are and that's why I have zero sympathy for them.

because their parent company took on a ton of debt and bought trading cards company, the comics division was still profitable

Thanks for the insight.

>Hurr durr it's not supposed to make sense ever

I'm not really reading it. Shit like Wally coming out of the Speedforce and kind of fixing Flashpoint at least made a little sense. Killing him so quickly with all of this shit up in the air means I don't even know where I'd get into DC now outside of self-contained Elseworlds shit.

They were. They hired people like Rob Liefeld, Tom DeFalco, Fabian Nicieza, and so on. Specially Liefeld who was given books and more books despite tanking them. The editors micro-managed everything constantly forcing writers and artists to change things 10 times over. Meanwhile the continuity itself is a clusterfuck. Every book was propped by tons of variant covers and gimmick months. The stories were filled with in-fighting, relationship drama, cheap sexual stuffs, and gore. Every issue someone new died in a book. Cross-overs out of the wazoo. Justice League became the Avengers in dynamic, they created a SHIELD for the JL in the form of ARGUS. Teen Titans was like the X-Men with teens being hunted by a shadowy organization. Actually, every teen book had the characters hated and feared and hunted by the same shadowy organization. There were 20 shadowy organizations. Every book had a shadowy organization. Lots of time-travel shit to make everything convoluted.

They would be happy if he got a book you retard. You really think they should be happy that Wally is in Heroes in Crisis? Don’t you have a gaming article to write about how entitled gamers are or something while taking your hormone pills?

Nothing in 90s Marvel inspires confidence, especially to 90s DC output.
What would attract anyone to follow 90s Marvel?

Wally was originally going to do just that but Tom King just had to have Wally in his shitfest.

Didio have always been outspoken about wanting DC to be more like Marvel. I guess Lee wanted to relive his glory days or something. I don't know.

This, Wally is being character assassinated in a shit book and they somehow still aren’t happy. Gosh, so entitled.

>I'm not really reading it.
So you want people to spoonfeed you information.

Character assassination to a wallyfag just mean no one is openly praising him while also shitting on Barry.

You don't know but you're gonna treat it like gospel truth?

>Didio have always been outspoken about wanting DC to be more like Marvel.
When?

Nice straw man retard. Wally diddle you are something or are you King defending your shit work.

It' all there. Meta-humans being hated and feared, young meta-humans being hunted by shadowy organization to be experimented and controlled, every hero being dysfunctional and edgy, every team having tons of in-fighting and relationship drama, cross-overs filled with convoluted shit like time-travel, every comic being filled with gimmicks, all the 90's Marvel writers and artists being hired en-masse, fucking Bob Harras being promoted to editor in chief, and so on.

What does this look like?

Based Wally sure does trigger cancerous newfags.

You know it's not the 1960s anymore, Marvel is no longer the cutting edge and a lot of what you mentioned has been common conventions of comics books for 50 years by now.

Not it hasn't. Not in DC. When a comic opens up about fucking Starfire of all people being afraid to show her face because she will get hate for being an alien you know that something is wrong.

>super secret therapy for heroes in crisis
>hosted by AI
>one day all of the heroes in therapy turn up dead, SHOT DEAD, even Wally West Flash
they dont examine the bodies
>the only survivors are harley and Booster gold, each saying the other must've done with no memory or evidence
they dont examine the bodies
>WOW BIG WHODUNNIT HUH
>throw in some really pointless stupid shit
they dont examine the bodies
>throw in some shit about how HARMFUL and FUCKING STUPID their idea of therapy is (designed by several of the "smartest characters" in the world)
they dont examine the bodies
>they see Poison Ivy drew a crooked mark in the floor with her blood WHAT COULD IT MEAN
>they FINALLY decide to examine the Flash's body, and discover that its "5 minutes too old to be Wally"
Wally West killed everyone, presumably to FORCE the Flash to go back in time and - hey while youre there maybe save my family that you erased

>every hero being dysfunctional and edgy, every team having tons of in-fighting and relationship drama
Have you been in a time capsule since the 1960s are something? The bronze age happened and this all stopped being unique to marvel.

>briefly explain

Yes, this is what I asked. Concisely tell me what the fuck is going on. Teaspoonfeed me.

You're focusing on one thing and ignoring all the other shit i mentioned. Fuck off.

Yeah scott lobdell is a mediocre writer but dysfunctional super heroes and team in fighting team haven't been unique to Marvel for like 50 years.

>Meta-humans being hated and feared, young meta-humans being hunted by shadowy organization to be experimented and controlled
Wait, you said it due to Young Justice Outsiders? Bob Harras has no power in that, and it's vaguely based on some details of Final Crisis, a comic written before Harras became an editor. If you wanted an example of DC wanting to be 90s Marvel just use N52, Teen Titans and Superman in particular.

A third of your what you're saying is flatout wrong.

>If you wanted an example of DC wanting to be 90s Marvel just use N52, Teen Titans and Superman in particular.
That's what he's doing.

Also thanks for this. Sounds shitty, but at least like it has a rough reason... I bought Rebirth and knee Linda didn't remember him, so I guess it's something.

I know the framework of a lot of this stuff, but not always all of the players.

the REASON Wally is in therapy is that when he came out of the speedforce (rebirth) he knows his family once existed, and Barry Erased them trying to save his own family (flashpoint)
Barry refuses to let him go back and save his wife and children, and expects him to learn do deal with it (Rebirth Flash, Titans)

It was unique to some DC titles. Like the Justice League acting like teenagers that all hate each other and being mocked in the media as terrible heroes, while common people voice their fear of them.
We're precisely talking about the New 52 here. The time when Bob Harras was promoted to editor-in-chief. Catch up.

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Everything i said was right.

see
this knowledge and his friends steadfast refusal to even help him find an alternate solution, made them send him to therapy bc guess what he couldnt fucking deal with Barry you piece of shit, Williamson - King - Didio what the fuck were you thinking?

Generalizing is never good. It doesn't take a genius to say people hate and fear things that are different or that unscrupulous people would do their dirty work in the dark. Marvel did help change the narrative in superhero comics but DC wasn't stagnant either.

Did you even read the comic you are criticizing? Batman was examining Protector's body in issue #2. Although this is Yea Forums so I shouldn't be surprised nobody read the comic they are criticizing.

Now that Diane Nelson has been fired and Goeff Johns has moved on to DC’s TV and film division, Dan Didio is back in control of DC’s Publishing division. And from the looks of things he wants to get back to business as usual. The business of destroying DC Comics.
Didio wants to turn the clock back to 2011 and his New 52 DC Universe and return to dark angry era of DC Superheroes he ushered in. Where heroes had to suffer endless tragedy in between multi issue crossovers that went on for a year. And there was nothing but death, mutilations, and you guessed it more death. Yeah, let’s go back to that era.
The era of DC that was THE POOREST SELLING in the 80-year history of the brand. The era where DC Comics ROTTED on the shelves and comic shops couldn’t GIVE them away. The era that cost DC and Warner millions in merchandising and licensing LOSSES as DC merchandise ROTTED on shelves as ALIENATED FANS WALKED AWAY FROM DC CHARACTERS AND THE DC UNIVERSE.
The definition of insanity is doing the exact same thing and expecting a different result. You would think after seeing The New 52 fail at comic shops, the DCAMU animated movies selling badly as DVDs, the New 52 inspired Snyderverse movies like Batman V. Superman and Justice League FLOP at the box office, and Diane Nelson get fired for pushing New 52 style ideas in the Snyderverse that Didio would realize that New 52 is a FAILURE, put a period at the end of it and move on.
If Didio keep pushing this, he’s gonna piss off a lot of fans. Most people were buying Rebirth in the hopes of getting their classic DC Universe back at the end of the Crisis. They invested in that Geoff John’s two going on three year storyline in the hopes of it paying off with a return to the characters they knew and loved. They saw hints of that with the Button cross-over, Doomsday Clock, and the Flash War. If Didio yanks the rug out from under fans it could not only put the nail in the coffin for DC Comics, but the comic book industry as a whole.

Two wrongs don't make a right. Barry isn't just being a dick just to be a dick, he's trying to stop Wally from making his mistakes.

In DC comics the population adored their heroes. They had no issue with aliens or meta-humans living among them. There were tons of businesses provided by meta-humans that just wanted to live a comfy life. DC wasn't like Marvel. This whole hated and feared thing didn't really exist at DC. Even the Doom Patrol with the characters being giant messes with super-powers were treated mostly as handicapped meta-humans that got together in a therapy book. Doom Patrol did what Heroes in Crisis tries to do much better.

This whole hated and feared thing was DC trying to copy the Marvel style with the New 52 reboot.

Well the page you posted is about a supervillain manipulating the league and media.
>Like the Justice League acting like teenagers that all hate each other
Like Justice league international or Justice league detroit.

I don't want to defend this comic but the entire reason why Barry doesn't let Wally fix his mistake is because he will probably just do things worse, because that's exactly what happened when he tried to save his mother.

The villain wasn't manipulating anyone. Wonder Woman was acting like a retarded bitch and picked up a fight with Green Lantern in a suburban area. The villain simple sent the footage of the fight to TV stations.

JLI and JLD worked better as a group than the New 52 JL, and that is just sad.

What did I just say about generalizing? There are instances in DC comics where characters will mention how they don't like Metahumans or superheroes. Like Harvey Bullock or D.E.O. Agent chase. Neil Gaiman portrayed superheroes as an exclusively american phenomenon or Alan Moore would have the swamp thing dismiss them as gaudy and violent.

Still, those were small cases. The minority. During the New 52 that shit became the norm. How hard it is for you to understand how hard that was pushed and how weird it felt?

Because you're still generalizing and making blanket statements.

Based Wally getting demoted and then killed offscreen

No, i'm not.

>and not helping to come up witha single alternative solution
wally just happened to have been in the speedforce and can coexist in this timeline with his alternate self; they should at least scour the speedforce for an instance where Wally's kids are in there and pull them out - that might even be a good arc to bring back Jay, or Max, or Impulse
>nah better just make him crazy than a villain

my bad - you're totally right; how could I have forgotten with all the vital info they uncovered from that. It had such a profound impact on the story as a whole - shed light on so many things and yaknow of all the heroes killed, I think Protector's death was the most perplexing...I mean HOW could anyone have POSSIBLY killed a hero shown to be as invulnerable, dynamic, and gifted with such abilities as him. Truly his and the other heroes whom we havent seen in years are far more important than any mere god of the speedforce, hardly a footnote, let alone the most significant body to have found on the scene. My bad