What went oh so wrong?

>Fans
There's your problem

So does that mean the SU fans who told Zamii to kill herself and R&M fans who rioted over fucking sauce and who both harassed their respective show's writers were totally in the right?

Kickstarter is a great example of why this is a very stupid attitude to have. Most of the time, the customer doesn't actually know want outside of just wanting more of what they already have.

No, it means people who go on Yea Forums and get offended by colors

Not enough money in the merch for white men to get serious about and stay in the hobby.

Who gives a fuck, moralfag.

Cartoons don't have enough nudity and fanservice.

Just the internet like everything else. Back then it was impossible to talk to creators without doing it in person. With shit like twitter fans can speak to them directly and influence their opinions. Animation fans aren't the only ones, video game enthusiast are worse. Kaczynski was right in that technology is degrading society more than it's helping it

Anyone who calls a medium a "hobby" is automatically on my shitlist, because it means they care more about the culture surrounding art than the art itself

Art is a hobby.

Can Yea Forums at least admit that letting women into the industry forever ruined animation?

That's just a symptom not the disease.

No. There's been women in the industry since the 30s, and I shudder to think of a world without mary blair

Their definition of "styles of animation" begins and ends with character design and always has fuckall to do with the actual animation

This is a thread about the culture surrounding the art.

Isn't this more of a modern film thing?

An animated show or movie does badly and it comes and goes. A movie does badly, we have to hear about how it was indiscriminately attacked by some cabal of evil racist misogynists until ticket sales faltered.

True, she would be disgusted at the state of modern women.

Yes, Without a doubt.

"Enjoying cartoons" is an activity that doesn't require a lot of intelligence. Most cartoons are meant for small children, and so appeal to people with minds like small children - idiots or defectives, people who can't fit in with normal adult society. This isn't to say there aren't healthy, well-adjusted animation fans, but that there is a large contingent of maladjusted fans too.

Unfortunately, idiots have more time to dedicate to discussing animation, because they don't have jobs or families or other interests to distract them, and this means spaces meant to discuss animation get flooded by low-quality posts made by low-quality posters.

Basically this. All of the animation critics on YouTube and all of the fans on places like Yea Forums are basically just really big babies who use a lot of words to say what can ultimately be boiled down to "WAAAAH MOMMY!"

Creators get the audience they deserve.

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Creators are making shows for children user. What the fuck are you talking about

That's not been true for years. They are filling their shows with specific themes that attract a specific attention.

I want a /comics/ and /cartoons/ split already

Putting in references for nerds isn't a new thing. Dexter's lab and billy and mandy were fucking loaded with Hanna Barbara references

I'm trying to imagine it and I don't know what that would even fix.

Creators are getting worse too because there's a feedback loop - their stuff appeals to shitty people, who want to go into the industry, who make even worse stuff, which appeals to even worse people, and so on.

The only way to stop it is to make the product more complex so idiots stop watching it (unlikely given more viewers = more cash) or to make it more expensive to watch cartoons or participate in the culture, so you'd need at least a measure of animal guile to access the content, or significant amounts of disposable income to dedicate to it.

Oh no, not references for nerds.

its conception

This post is so full of stupid it actually hurts

I don't see a problem.

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Let's cut the bullshit, I know who you are from your filename, and I'm not going to give you the satisfaction of baiting me into asking you who you're taking about because I already know what you're going to say anyway

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When we let people use CalArts Style as a legitimate argument was a pretty recent failing

What's wrong about it?

He's right though.

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user, you might be unironically schizophrenic. Who should I be according to your delusion?

No he's not. Most of the people in the industry now are there because their parents are rich and they paid them through collage. The 90s and 2000s were as good as they were because there were more outsiders, thus more worldviews, thus more variety. Mike judge was a fucking engineer for gods sake. Adding more gatekeeping would just make the industry even more of a circlejerk

Also, judging something's quality based on its complexity is what gets you bloated, convoluted messes like homestuck and adventure time

>Animation community treating contnunity as a godsend and the status quo as the spawn of Satan
>Too many cartoons labeling themselves as dramedy
>"But cartoons in the 80s is about money and toys and that's evil! Fuck you for saying the modern artstyle looks like shit!"

Imaging rubbing shit all over yourself so you can mock the dude drinking puke

This is just the excuse they fall back on when they make a huge change that pisses off the actual fans.

It's possible for a culture to be too open as well as too closed. The cultures of animation production and animation fandom are different. The first is too closed, and the other is too open. They require different, but invevitably related, interventions to get better.

The "actual fans" are going to get pissed off at everything no matter what thanks to actual autism. It's pretty telling that all of Yea Forums's favorite shows ended early

Judging by how high tuition for your typical animation school is and how many grads they pump out, I can already tell you your plan won't work.

Trust me, the cathartic cancer is growing through the mucus

You sound insanely autistic

Homestuck and Adventure Time were unique projects that were the first of their kind. Obviously they had predecessors but nothing on their scale had been attempted before, and inevitably problems would crop up. That means trying better next time, not giving up.

Homestuck was predated by both problem sleuth and rubyquest

Yours is no different either

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But it was far bigger and more complicated.

And I'm saying that complexity =/= quality. I'd rather a simple story if it means it's focused

Pretty much this.

Quality is a nebulous, subjective term, and for some people a more complex story is a better one. Think of food - a perfectly made grilled cheese sandwich might be really fulfilling, but a fussy Michelin-starred meal might also be fulfilling. There is room for both perspectives, but the problem with cartoons is not overcomplexity but the opposite, simple stories that offer little for people with more complex interests.

I think you're starting to see the underlying issue. It's not a lack of this thing or that thing; it's a lack of overall variety.

What do you mean by that?

Just a burger problem.

I don't even know what this is really someone tell me

In an ideal world, everyone would have something for them. Nobody would complain about cartoons all the time because they'd simply stop watching shows they don't like and start watching shows they do

a lot of countries primarily produce cartoons for children

at least on Yea Forums, most them are constantly horny

Euro animation is just as if not more kiddy than American. The only exception is france (russia doesn't count)

France hasn't had an adult animated show technically until Lastman came out. You're mixing it up with comics.

French movies are less kiddy, too.