How long until they ruin her?
how many gosh darned movies have dc got at the moment.
When they inevitably cast a mutt as her.
I dunno, I can picture Latina or Asian Zatanna being alright as long as they don't break from the magician look.
Zatanna is Italian, she should look like one. Stop raceswapping everyone and just fucking respect the material for once.
In this day and age white source material is only something to be disrespected.
What happens if they make her black ?
White people aren't allowed to have an identity anymore. Anything they've created is just fodder for 'minorities' to deface.
Yeah, but being Italian isn't really a big part of her character. It's not like Constantine where he's a total Brit and it's part of his image.
Where does it ever say this? Her name SOUNDS Italian but I'm pretty sure she's more of that magical extra dimensional race she's mixed race of anyway
What even is her character besides “show-woman”
Why are you people so obsessed with defending the replacement of white people in literally everything?
White people never had an identity aside from hot dogs and being lame as hell and locking their car doors in "rough" neighborhoods. Go watch wheel of fortune you pasty cunt
>White people never had an identity
old eurotrash doesn't count
White people walked on the moon. What has your worthless race ever contributed to humanity?
cont.
I'm talking north america, aka the only place where white people think race matters . Europe is varied enough you can just go a few miles and the culture actually does change.
>implying Mutts are white
dont forget eating mayo
We started Canada's only civil war, look up Red River Rebellion
Mixed master race bitch! Death to stinky inbred puebloods!
As if that stopped movie execs. All you're doing is solidifying the need to stick closer to the source material, instead of this incessant need Hollywood has of reimagining shit.
Do you have any concept of reality beyond shitty memes?
She's a fun upbeat character. Kinda sassy. Gets around. Most people just like her for her design though, and Paul Dini's waifu memes. Once every hundred Zatanna threads people actually talk about her comics.
>Mixed
>Yeah, but being Italian isn't really a big part of her character.
Not for you to decide.
Every trait of a character is what makes them who they are you racist dipshit.
Didn't know she was Italian
TLDR
We annoyed the first prime minister, got Manitoba to be created as a consolation prize, and made some damn good fiddle music
Also Louis Riel was totally the aeathetic inspiration of Jebediah Springfield, but the whole Springfield is Winnipeg thing is a different matter. Look that up too
Apperently he doesnt Sad.
>/pol/ using Zatanna to bait Yea Forums
You are all better than this.
>the racist is the one who thinks that a character's race is not a very important part of her character
So how did you react to Wolverine being played by a fucking koala?
Trying to take away European identity is indeed racist. Pick another character to push your Orwellian diversity agenda.
It took 20 years for people to finally like him and it was because it was his last movie where he died.
You know /pol/ consider Italians black right?
No, i legit have a feeling they believe everything they're saying and gradually getting more and more pissed. I can tell when trolls start panicking. The replies have died down butbthats because they're getting a multi reply, three paragraph manifesto going and it's going to be hilarious
user pls, Zatanna is well known for her love of spaghetti. If she gets a movie we need the world to see that so that they can understand her character.
Old-manverse is an elseworld though
No they don't.
>Italian
>white
Try again Giuseppe.
Yes they do, even Italian consider terroni sub humans
Because you're a filthy fucking casual.
I did once argue with a /pol/smoker who thought sicillians werent white. That was funny. They flipped when I made an ultimatum and said "okay you're green"
Because they are, but that doesn't make all Italians non-white. Real Italians still are.
You ever seen her dad? His name is Giovanni.
What's a real italian?
Cool, what else do you know about him.
Christopher Columbus.
Zatanna is half-turkish/half-Italian but her aesthetic is gothy showwoman so she's is pale skinned.
Everything bitch, I read comics.
He's a direct ancestor of Leonardo da Vinci. He's fucking Italian. Get over it.
She's also part magic extra dimensional people. Like homo alakazamus or something. Her whole family is.
Glad the /pol/ kiddies know how to use google.
>anyone who doesn't like the replacement of white people in adaptations is from /pol/
Hey bitch I learned this from reading Matt Wagner's Xanadu WHICH BY THE WAY IS GREAT.
Italians are not white.
Just because your name is Giovanni doesn't make you a wop. Italy doesn't even exist in Pokemon
Yeah, you didn't know that?
This your first time out of /pol/?
>snowniggers
Crawl back to your cuckshed, Sven.
How does this change the fact that Zatanna's italian ancestry is part of the character?
You cannot have Zatanna without Zatara and Zatara is a straight up dago. Way to shit on the proud tradition of italian american stage magicians you racist.
Just like i said here FUCK off greeny
Considering she wasn't raceswapped and the amount of bitching about it while complaining about mutts, yeah, pretty /pol/
I'm english which is the only way you can be white.
Anything else is a lie.
How nice to know niggers discovered and invented civilization and how we live
It isn't remotely part of her character. Post some pages with examples or fuck off
Crying while typing will not win your argument, this is an IMAGE board
You mean sumarians? You missed the sand part before niggers
Hey, call me beast boy and get me drunk on st.paddy's day. White is a nebulous category that europeans have used against the coloreds in america for too long.
>the eternal Anglo
That's not an improvement, Ismail.
>How does this change the fact that Zatanna's italian ancestry is part of the character?
because it plays zero relevance in her stories if you've ever actually read any. You could raceswap her dad too and nothing would be different. You don't have any actual examples of her race coming into play in her personality or anything. No one has ever cared that she was Italian.
Why are you trying to whitewash Zatanna?
what, are we making her into a polar bear now?
All the more reason to keep her Italian, because italy is a country with proud traditions and heritage.
You're trying to erase her italian identity. That's racist on so many levels.
>italy is a country with proud traditions and heritage
ain't no one gonna be fooled by that
Zatanna is Zatara's daughter and Zatara is explicitly italian. You lumping italians with white people and trying to erase Zatanna's italian identity is double racist.
Because /pol/smokers having sperg attacks amuses me.
You saying italy isn't real or something? I guess the fucking renaissance isn't real either then.
Indios hate Italians
That's not posting pages you lazy pussy tap loving retard
Pics or you're a fucking fagmosexual
user I know you're not gonna believe me but I'm legit. I really do think we should acknowledging the identity of italians and italian americans by celebrating what makes the differences that make them italian.
There were several renaissance throughout history.
But no the Itallian one doesn't real. Its wop propaganda to make us think theyhave done more than invent organized crime and bad horror movies.
And I Lego think, while that may be a noble goal, there are better ways to go about it by shoving it into a character who's only vaguely Italian, and pretty much only implied by name.
If you need an Italian superhero, Huntress is getting Birds of Prey and she's more Italian than Mario shoving lasagna up his ass.
She's not vaguely italian, she is italian. You have been the real fucking racist on this thread; in fact I've been keeping count.
>reinforcing the white hegemony
>demanding characters act in stereotypical manners
>setting a cap for the number of italians in comics
Just drop US comics. It's being taken over by the pleb. Actually avoid anything "cultural" from the US.
Go euro or read manga.
JUST SHUT THE FUCK UP EVERYONE
POST SOMETHING ELSE
No, you're just gaslighting me in a terrible attempt at shitposting. Making up things I said doesn't work when there's a text trail right here. Also WHERE ARE THEM PAGES WITH PROOF OF ANYONE EVERY SAYING ANYTHING ABOUT HER ITALIAN HERITAGE YOU AUTISTIC GOOF?
If being a fucking wop was so important you would be okay with Huntress being in Birds of prey.
Stop posting the shitty nu superhero girls version of her, see has black hair, she looks awful I this. Even w/o than her stupid blue costume in New JLDark
I don't need to post pages to prove I'm right. The inescapable fact is that:
>Zatanna is Zatara's daughter
>Zatara is italian
>which means Zatanna is half italian
Which is why there's no more white actors. They were all useless. You only see minorities in movie. This is known.
It's weird, her dad is totally Italian to me but she isn't in he slightest
Because writers continually fail to capitalize on it. They usually regulate Zatanna into a supporting role, keeping her out of the one thing that makes this character pop:
>The spotlight
Fishnets and white skin are way too problematic in current year. She will be played by a Native American tranny in overalls, for maximum inclusion and diversity.
Hey man, as long as she's hot and can act I'm down for whatever.
Everyone shut the fuck up, she's Italian, stop trying to race-swap characters, people of colour don't even like it, it's embarrassing.
I SERIOUSLY love this character, I love her more than Harley Quinn and Catwoman, that's how serious it is. I can't imagine what would happen if WB greenlight her live-action movie and give her a shitty script and casting choice.
That's why I'm personally writing my own draft script for a Zatanna movie, because I'm not trusting WB or DC to make a faithful movie that pleases both fans and the popcorn eating fat fucks.
Careful, DC can't take unsolicited scripts.
Hollywood will never racebend someone into being Asian or Hispanic user. Diversity means black. Or preferably some sort of mulatto mystery meat with a British accent.
>as long as she's hot and can act
No.
You wouldn’t even stand a chance user. They only accept “woke” scripts.
>They
Was it one or two, finally?
They is gender neutral.
Only if you live in England during the 16th century. The rest of us learned this in school.
Singular
I am
You are
He/she/it is
Plural
We are
You are
They are
As you'll notice, "they" only appears once and not in the singular column.
What with american girls having huge thighs?
I love her too I'm glad she's finally getting recognition
I like this version of her. I like that faust use a sort of revamped version of her hero outfit
Americans are known for being dumb as shit, so of course they all bought into the Squatz N Oatz meme, despite it making you look like you have tremendously fat legs and ass.
So, who'd be a better villain for the movie Zor or Brother Night
Bendis is already working on it.
KFC does that to you.
Fuck you.
Oh, and the classic magician outfit is a must
Well you got a shit education then m8 because they can be used in the singular.
because it's an extremely small thing to get upset over.
get it? white, small? har har har
Challenge for /pol/tard: Name ONE Zatanna story that only works if she's italian
Don't worry, she's in EXCELLENT hands
Name me one story that only works if Miles is black
Zatanna is such an italian name.
focusing on her nationality shows how fucking little you care about her character. not that she had one beyond magician with fishnets.
Why should we change her race though? Just asking lol.
/thread
The story of her and her dad, who is italian. That's the most important Zatanna story in all time because it defines so much of her character.
>"Zgnak zuw ew!"
>your bike is gone
She's also friendly, a spellaholic and a militant vegan
the source material is stupid and needs to be streamlined to work in the structure of a movie.
If Zatanna is a black girl from 60's brooklyn who learns magic from an elderly italian magician and fights crime, then the movie can happen and it gives more layers to the DC movie universe and everybody knows it needs that, bad.
Nah, her father should be a magician and she should chant her spells backwards. Race can be anything tbqh. Oh and maybe give her puple eyes
Miles's thing is being a black spiderman though, hardly comparable to Zatanna
Why not? If there happens to be one incredibly talented black/hindu/arab/whatever actress that fits the character WB shouldn't hire her just because of her skin colour?
WOW user you clearly know what your're talking about, you're giving so much details and all
That doesn't sound streamlined at all. A father/daughter duo of stage magicians being actual magicians is a high concept that makes Hollywood executives cream their pants.
But you said "a /pol/smoker", singular, and then suddenly you said "they".
They can be used in a singular use.
But what for this time?
>himbo harem
>gay manager
>black boyfriend
>transgender friend
>surpassed her father
Zatanna is a pretty woke character
>Why not?
Because she is explicitly italian.
Only if you live in 16th century England or believes in all the nonsense spewed on tumblr. Which kind of ridicule do you prefer subjecting yourself to?
>Hardly comparable
Meaning you can’t think of an argument
That's because his name is a localization for USA. And the "Gio" in Giovanni equals to "Geo" as he's a ground-type gym leader.
Language is ever changing. If you don't know the gender of whoever then you use they, it just makes sense.
the moment they make her wear long pants the character wil be ruined.
Well you're right, a name alone doesn't make you italian.
Being born and raised in italy does, having a family lineage that dates back to Leonardo Da vinci does.
Can there ever be a movie about a female character without retards here whining about the actress not looking like a Benes drawing.
"it" is already there for cases where you don't know.
Or you could just do what we've been doing for centuries and either use "(dear) X or Y" for formal adressing or make an educated guess based on name and accept/apologize if you guessed wrong.
There isn't that many gender neutral names and the unfortunate schmucks that have them should be used to people guessing wrong half the time.
Then name one story that can only be told if she's italian. Or name one thing being italian adds to her character
.Why make white Miles when you have Peter and other white spier-men and symbiots?
It is rude to refer to humans as it
Which is why you'd make an educated guess or use "X or Y". This shouldn't be hard to understand.
Brother Night, duhr.
Plz stop posting that awful version of her. Blue hair is fucking terrible on Zatanna
Or you can just use they.
Black boyfriend?
She's perpetually single because everyone she dates gets hurt, or was Constantine. Maybe for a bit but not now.
She had one in the 90s series. She also got cucked by Vixen
>Being this autistic that you don't know when somebody is talking nonsense to get you razzed
You misspelled Timm
I think it's purple. Hair aside I think it's probably one of the best Zatannas
What's wrong with her being italian? Why are trying to argue that we should change her ethnicity? This isn't the same case like in that black canary thread I'm pretty sure you were in, her being italian is mentioned as part of her character.
>name one thing being italian adds to her character
Name me one thing her not being italian adds to the character.
I'm just saying her ethnicity doesn't matter, she could be asian, she could be black, she could be pure aryan and that would neither take nor add anything to Zatanna's mythos, origin or any story ever told because her ethnicity is completely, utterly incosequential to her character.
You know that for a guy trying to prove that being italian is absolutely essential for Zattana's character to work the only point you seem to make is "hurr why change anything".
>her being italian is mentioned as part of her character
Name one istance of that.
inb4 it's
>tracing her lineage back to Da Vinci
She could be tracing it back to genghis khan and it would change nothing whatsoever
I just woke up and it seems you've been at it literally since I went to sleep. Do you smoke meth?
>She also got cucked by Vixen
Hawkgirl got cucked by her too in JLU. That woman's a homewrecker.
The design of a drawn character matters
Zatanna is not Zatanna if her she's not fair skinned, dark, straight hair, dressed as a stage magician.
This whole thread is deeply, deeply disappointing. This stealth Yea Forumsmblr thread is full of idiots going through leaps and bounds to try and justify a wholly unnecessary change.
Back and fourth between
>her race doesnt matter so why not change it
>her race doesnt matter so why change it
Changing some fundamental about her design just to virtue signal or appease a group of people who can only relate to a character based on superficial traits is as disrespectful to the creator is depicting a real person as a different race or gender would be to that person or anyone related to them
I bet you lot would be fine with this Zatanna
>dark, straight hair
She had a perm in the 80s and the glittery purple works for her
Looks more like Nico from the runaways. She doesn't really give off a stage magician vibe there, but she didn't at the beginning of the new 52 either so whatever.
Upbeat and funny, but also has a lot of self-doubt steaming from feeling like she doesnt live up to her father and is often addicted to using magic.
The New 52 Zatanna was shit though, and the design was only one part of that.
Does /pol/ acknowledge Earth 23
>The New 52 Zatanna was shit though
I thought it was kinda hot desu, especially combined with her toxic relationship with Constantine at the time. Kinda gave her this rebellious biker daughter vibe.
Purple/pink is the best color for her
>just to virtue signal
Nobody wants to change anything, anons are just saying they won't mind if WB decides to raceswap her. I'm with them because as long as the character is a female dressed as stage magician it's as much zatanna as any of her comic incarnations ever were
And does the backwards talk too
>why change anything?
It's a valid question.
>Name one istance of that.
so they should find a gypsy to play her?
Romanis are not italians.
She literally says it doesn't matter right there
I don't know, ask the people who are going to be in charge of her movie. I'm just saying I won't mind any changes because no matter how drastic they could be, they will hardly if at all affect Zatanna as a character
racist
I'm reading plenty of good American comics. I'm not adopting the Yea Forums mind set that the only two options are superheroes or jacking off to muh superior Japanese/euro.
>Gypsy will never be in live action
At least she won't get the Birds of Prey treatment
Zatanna comes from a direct line of being inspired by Leon Mandrake. I see her as an italian-turkish American and I want that to be apparent to people.
Wow, a Yea Forumsmrade with a reasonable opinion
If you change a character's race, and nothing else changes as a result, then that's lazy writing. Take Peter Parker for instance, do you think a orphaned white kid raised by their poor Aunt is gonna have the same experience if he was black? The answer is no.
Hope they dont try to give her a love interest. Wouldn't be the end of the world but I feel like Zatanna has never really had a relationship that worked.
Zatanna:
>funny
>easygoing
>female
>magican
>says things backwards
>has inferiority complex towards her dad
She can be whatever race/nationality or even live in any country in the world and still retain those traits.
Enjoy your lazing writing then
Let's talk about something else please. What will the sfx for her magic look like? Starbursts like in comics/cartoon or something else, what color would it be? I'm partial to the sparkly blue of JLU
>lazy writting
>because character is universal
O-ok
So if a character was established as a jew and then got raceswapped for brownie points, you wouldn't consider it lazy writing if said character was shown eating lobster?
>take character
>put them into entirely different cultural and geographic setting
>stays the same as though they were in the original setting
>not lazy writing
>personality traits are the same as religious commandments
You wot mate?
So how would Zatanna be different if she were german, finnish or australian?
>Australian Zatanna
stop putting these ideas in my head
I fucking mind
Theres no reason to racebend her. The only reason to do it is to appease people who dont care about the character.
If you were an artist would you want people making massive changes to your characters?
I don’t know enough about European cultures to write an essay about it, but the European cultures vary wildly from American cultures, and thus she would be different. I don’t see your point.
In comics? Unless they consulted those changes with me first, of course.
In adaptations? I wouldn't give a single fuck
Then let's say she's part of a culture you know anything about. In what ways would she be different?
Can you be anymore disingenuous? Or are you so retarded that you need someone to explain that people vary between cultures?
No, please explain to me why can zatanna only have personality traits listed here if she's italian?
Because being italian is part of her characterization.
Make a new character instead of shitting all over the source material for browniepoints. That way you don't piss off the existing fans and when it turns out that tumblr still doesn't buy comics you won't have lost the fanbase you already had. It's win/win.
>Because being italian is part of her characterization.
But it's not, being italian has no bearing on her adventures, personality, backstory or the way she acts
>funny
Sense of humor varies between cultures
>easgoing
What constitutes as easygoing varies between cultures
>female
How women are viewed, their social expectations, and treatment vary between cultures
>says things backwards
Powersets are irrelevent to personality without a cultural lens, which changes between cultures
>inferiority complex towards her dad
How inferiorty to others is viewed vary between cultures
If you change Zatanna’s race and nationality, and have her act like her old white self, that’s lazy writing.
Not even Dale Colton?
Is that her with the Blue hair? Actually, is this show any good?
It's not out yet but it looks good
PORCO DIO AVETE ROTTO I MARONI BURGERS DEL CAZZO
BASTA CHE NON SIA NEGRA È ANDRA BENE
You could say her being italian lends a certain elegance as a performer.
Vai, vai a bere l'acqua del fiume coglione, che magari questa è la volta buona che ci resti.
I'm not into comics much so take this as you will but I actually really like Zatanna she's super unique and interesting and seems like a lot of fun. It would be a shame if they took away the stuff that makes her cool.
Like if they make a movie with her it'll be all dark and edgy and they'll change her costume prolly and it'll just be bad. But maybe not, I can stick with wishful thinking.
This is fine.
This is good.
Oh God.
You're absolutely right, user. I will only feel validated and satisfied as a fan of this one-dimensional comicbook pinup as long as it's made perfectly clear that she's 1/8th Italian and spends at least a third of the film talking about linguini and scallopini and MAMA MIA PIZZA DE PASTA.
Pastaniggers get out
It’s a cute show, there’s only been shorts released so not much exploration of the characters beyond their surface level quirks. Hopefully it avoids the fate of horse shit.
oh yeah it's by the same creator. Here's hoping, we don't need a second wave of that.
>dcshg splits Yea Forums again
Brother Night does some dark creepy shit in the Zatanna comics, but if that was going to work in a movie, it'd have to be balanced out with the fun and feisty humor from Zatanna's side.
pmub
As long as her hair is black and she's in a tux and a tophat, IM fine.
>1/8
Her dad was born and raised in italy.
I wonder if any of the people itt bitching about Zee being Italian give a shit about Kyle Rayner being half-Mexican.
I swear, if I ever write Zee, I'm going to give her a way better rogues gallery.
nah
She's got acwicked rogues gallery, they're just under used, except for Klarion
I never understood the need to dramatically change her costume up for a redesign. If you think the fish nets are too over the top, just give her a nice pair of dress pants. Why change up her whole aesthetic for such an easy fix.
Eh, the one Dini introduced in his Zee run was alright but I feel like aside from MAHJICK, they're not really thematically fitting for her. Even Brother Night was pretty boring.
>allura
only used on pre-crisis
>brother night
pretty cool
>ember
cool too, could use a demon dragon form though
>teddy, shaper, nimue
a bit weak tbqh
>Stringleshanks and fuseli
pretty alright
>zor
better as a sort of final boss
It would be great if Rebirth brought them back
Am I the only one who likes the purple hair.
I agree with everything but Teddy, if he can summon any bug out of his box, that's actually kinda freaky.
Yes. Fuck off. Pleb.
why? it's pretty neat like the sort of thing a teenage sorceress would do
As long as she's white I'll watch it, otherwise into the trash it goes.
It's going to be trash. Just make a live action All-Star Superman movie
was this a good issue?
It was. Probably the go-to issue if you want to get a feel for Zatanna.
yes
Hmm, I wonder what most people would call me if I claimed that all people of certain race only did stereotypical things?
why does the front cover look actually good whereas the actual issue is blocky and lazy as fuck?
I just hope this means that we'll get more fat Zatanna art and she'll be revelant for once.
Asians dont look good in tights unless you count middle eastern ones (I dont know how to make that sound less fucked up)
So she can be all those as definded by germans/russians/spaniards which is... pretty much the same? It really shows that you don't know anything about other cultures
I’m pretty sure Italians are simply Italians, and they just happen to look white.
It’s not like they’re jews or anything.
>I wonder if any of the people itt bitching about Zee being Italian give a shit about Kyle Rayner being half-Mexican.
One of those things was canon from day one, one of those things was a retcon by a later writer. Kyle found out he was half-Mexican when he was a grown man, but now people do their research on Wikipedia so it's one of the only things they know about him.
>thicc Italian girl
UNF
They won't
Thing is, both matter about as much. I have never seen Zatanna's heritage really come up in any plotline, even if it's kinda implied. I'm not saying that she should be racebent by any means, I would rather she stay white and with raven dark hair. However it doesn't matter as much to the character as that user was acting like it was.
Hot but still yikes
Nobody said anything about race-swapping, stupid /pol/tard.
>still no Dr Fate movie
Bait
There is still a lot of a, b and c-listers for WB to make movies about.
Isn’t fate a B lister or at least an A
>dr fate
>relevant in any way, shape or form
That's why it's been almost five years since he had his own series
A Fate and Zatanna movie could be fun
Is that fanart? Because otherwise that dialogue is cringe as fuck.
>not knowing sejic
fuck off newfag
Friendly reminder that Bernie is best girl.
tfw v2 fucking never ;_;
Don't remind me, I have all 8 in floppies and the last issue has some awful quality, like it was scanned from DA miniatures and have been waiting for vol 2 since 2014 or so
Also Sejic's dialogues are cringy as fuck
I keep almost buying this on amazon, but I know nothing about the character. I just like nice thick paperbacks with a whole self contained run. Should I pull the trigger?
It was a fun series, and you don't need to know anything about her to enjoy it, but there were a lot of filler issues, and the book ends without the main villain storyline being resolved.