When does it become okay (or not okay) to portray rape in a story?

>Don't play it for fanservice
I have to remember that every sexual scene, sexual abuse and chaining that I wrote in a novel I did with the purpose of highlighting the protagonist in his evolution.

I don't necessarily agree with it, but you can murder someone pretty swiftly in a work of fiction. Shoot them in the head, crush them, explode them, yank out their soul, whatever else. It can be done so fast that the result could be seen as inconsequential or, with the right context, even humorous. "Just a casualty" is pretty easy to justify to the audience and other members of the story's cast, even if you personally dislike the idea of killing something.

Meanwhile you can't rape somebody quickly. The act of rape is an expression of passionate lust for power, and that sort of thing just isn't fleeting. Similarly an extensive murder scene (in which the murderer clearly relishes whatever sense of sociopathic advantage they have over the victim) is often seen as repulsive or gratuitous. Rape demands it be drawn out, grotesque and desperate whereas murder can be quick, clean and done purely out of necessity.

Where is the source for that Electrode?

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I mean fairy-tale-esque fantasy.

I don't get what the need to portray rape, specifically would be
unless you're just portraying rape
Like, is there someone that a criminal is trying to catch that rapes people? Is it important for the rape to be detailed within the comic by drawing it?

I feel like there's no good, specific reason, to portray rape unless it directly leads to something else and is happening to the main character

Like the only rape scene that actually made sense to me was in Invincible, there was a reason for the character to do that (Same with Batman in the case of Damian when it's non consensual)

The only time it makes sense to actually portray rape outside of stuff like that is if the MC is the one doing it, but they don't understand consent or maybe they stop halfway through because it took them a while to realize that the girl didn't actually want it, as like an unfortunate teaching moment for the MC

I'm not trying to imply it's only okay when guys get raped or that it's okay for characters to rape as long as they stop and realize it, but it really doesn't make sense to portray it outright

There's no specific need for it, so the only time it happens is when the writer/artist wants to see it

Until Gail Simone got her hands on it Red Sonja's origin was literally rape and pillaging

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>There's no specific need for it, so the only time it happens is when the writer/artist wants to see it
By that logic we should stop depicting violence too

allowing people like this to exist is why the human race is categorically doomed and our children will all be dead at best and slaves at worst

>I don't get what the need to portray rape, specifically would be
Cause psychological stress on the characters and reader. Furthering a point if your theme is suffering.

Your point of view isn't very free. You are pretty much using an strawman as an example of why we should limit creativity to only stuff your desire to see.

>When does it become okay to portray rape in a story?
clowns

When they're the perpetrator, or the victim?

Either way, it's still funny.

It's fucking funny, if you ask me~

>The rapist tries to finger the clown. He finds a never ending chaing of multicolored handkerchiefs coming out of her vagina.

I think it depends on what genre your writing for. The first part of what said doesn't really apply if your writing an edgy comedy where a lot of the humor revolves around people suffering, for example.
What doesn't apply if your writing erotica or porn where the sexual assault is supposed to be arousing.(this is the only time that I think it doesn't apply though)
If you want your story to have emotional weight however, it's best to treat the rape realistically try not to reduce it,or the victim's whole character to a plot point.

there is no such thing as "not ok" it can be trait if its just a rush job so MC can have a hate on for someone or the girl can be all "you will love me even if I was raped, how generous "

>If you want your story to have emotional weight however, it's best to treat the rape realistically try not to reduce it,or the victim's whole character to a plot point.
This.

>offscreen
you need it on screen if characters are going to be affected by it, so you can judge if their reaction is warranted.

You don't because rape is just a cheap trick to make weak character development strong.

rape can be a lot more intimate, and you have to watch someone lose their dignity and live with the consequences, which can often look a lot more brutal than death.

> murder and gore are common, so why not write a story about rape?
> yeah, let's get Kevin Smith to write it

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It's easy. Just have it happen to a male and play it for laughs.

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its always okay to have rape in comics.

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Only time I'll be against it is when it is used incorrectly for educational purposes(Teaching people incorrect laws about rape, how to react and what is and isn't rape).

>being sexually forced by something: rape
>having a clear consent about having sex but feeling guilty afterwards: not rape (despite what SJW thinks)
Just separate between those two and it'll be fine.

I want to rape that pokeball

Because it's part of the human experience? People get raped and their experience deserves to be acknowledged at least as much as any other. Actually fitting it into a story is something not a lot of authors know how to do well though, I'll admit, and often says more about cultural perceptions of rape than it does the experience of any actual parties involved. But that's only a reason to better understand those perspectives and portray it better to me.

>comic by drawing it?
yes? there is a non hot way of doing it and you need it to get people to actually care, just saying it will lead to people thinking the antagonist aint that bad. you have to make the reader/viewer feel and its not limited to rape, same goes for all plots or evilness

no one actually likes seeing graphic violence

don't play up the suffering of your characters for shock value

Electrodes aren't people. They're not even real.

To me rape is disgusting because while Murder is death of an individual. rape is the utter destruction on making love, the one of the most beautiful and enjoyable experiences a human being can have. Rape just violates it, demeans it, and beaks everything about it.

I'll beak you

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Since Moore was brought up, you can use him to illustrate the difference between exploitative and responsible use of rape in a comic.

Killing Joke is exploitative, used simply as a plot point for other characters to react, and even engaging in visual objectification of the rape victim (I know it was changed to her "just" being shot in the final comic, but the way it's portrayed, it's still pretty much the same).

Watchmen is a responsible portrayal of rape, where you can see the actual effects it has on the characters, and it's a vital part of the many layers of storytelling the comic has, and not simply there as motivation for other characters.

Just portray it as an awful and disgusting thing right? or am I dumb and misunderstanding the question

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>Isnt sexualized
>Contributes to the character development of the victim
>Isnt used to fridge a character
>Cant be replaced with something else (such as, being forcefully kissed, groped, etc)

I think when Moore reflects negatively on the Killing Joke, he's kind of responding to that, to a degree. I mean, he doesn't explicitly say it's about the treatment of sexual assault, he says "It was too nasty, it was too physically violent," but it's probably more about the role violence plays in the story. You don't get enough time to actually contextualize and deal with that violence before moving on to the next thing, except for Joker's trauma that maybe existed, and how it affected him. The fallout of Gordon and Barbara's trauma is barely touched on, and if the point is that they're not really the focus of the story, then it seems unnecessary to do such consequential actions as critically wounding an established character and then not pay much attention to that.

Portray whatever you want in whatever context. As long as you can make it serve the story in some way. If it's well done, anything is good. Don't worry about the various flavors of prudes that yell at you. They don't care about art, and they just don't like it in the same way that a young kid doesn't like vegetables or getting their shots. It's a purely emotional reaction, not a logical one, whatever they claim.

Good example is my own mother. I love her, and she's a great person, but she cannot handle any amount of negative emotions in media. If it doesn't have a happy ending, or if something too sad happens in the story of a movie/book, she can't enjoy it. Violence beyond the PG level is also totally unacceptable. My favorite movie when I was a kid was the Iron Giant, but my mom hated it because the robot died at the end. Like I said, I love my mom, but I pity her in this regard. Imagine being so prudish and sensitive that you can't enjoy the kind of movie that a 5 year old can appreciate.

people don't mind if it's female on male rape

You must gain the trust of those who generally accuse authors who use rape in their stories.

just because rape is a popular tool of hack writers doesn't mean every writer should inherently avoid it.

Just don't write it like how hacks write it.

>Contributes to the character development of the victim
This is a big one. A story where a rape is integral to the plot is still potentially a bad story if it's just using that rape to motivate another character to action, without any reference to how the rape affects the actual victim's development.

>Just don't write it like how hacks write it.
Pretty much.

This. I Spit On Your Grave is a notorious rape/revenge movie. Popular and successful, there are dozens upon dozens of direct to VHS garbage that essentially uses the same plot, but with markedly worse writing/directing/acting. Anyone can ape a plot or use an element without understanding why it works, that doesn't mean the element itself is intrinsically bad. It just means that bad writers are bad at writing.

Yeah, it's not like there hasn't been ANY controversies over excessive gore, amirite?

If you've never been raped or otherwise sexually violated, you really can't understand that it IS completely different from threats of injury or death. It really is personal on a level deeper than any gore or murder can ever possibly be.

Comedy

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this unironically happens all the time

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Yeah, I think that's why he's one of the main detractors of his own work on TKJ, while keeping Bolland out of it.

Someone show this to the fighting circuit guys. Knew that World Martial Arts Tournament dude was a creep. Time his ass gets #metoo'd.

I'm making a thing where there is some explicit rape (on male) and a pretty bad scene with violent sex that is integral to character development and not there for gratuitous edge. I feel the same about violence in general, I don't like "cool" violence. So I'm doing my best to do it tactfully. I just don't know where to host a thing this dark (How bad is stuff like Crossed? is the rape explicit? Can you even do this stuff?) and if people will lynch me for it.

Kinda like ntr, yet people don't complain about it.

>having a clear consent about having sex but feeling guilty afterwards: not rape (despite what SJW thinks)
You know I always see this meme, but I've never actually seen a real, verified-human being with any semblance of influence or intellectual merit say this. I'm as progressive as they come and I've literally never seen any person on the left contend that post-sex regret is rape. It sounds to me like you might disagree with our definition of "clear consent" and you're using a strawman to avoid engaging with that.

>I accepted sexual advances by [person] to get the role in [movie] therefore he raped me

people get injured and killed by accident all the time. so we are accustomed to death and blood and don't shy away from it even when it's done by a person

you can't get raped on accident, its the willful act of an evil mind and is a reminder of something that is uniquely horrible to sentient thought

which is why we put it on a much higher level than murder

Retarded post

Right, so we disagree on what "clear consent" is - if a person with power over you (like, say, the ability to blackball you from all future work in your given profession, thus leaving you with no income) says "fuck me or Bad Shit will happen", that's pretty obviously rape. Coercion can be mental or social as well as physical.

It's the same reason blackmail is illegal. Yeah, you could just not comply with the blackmailer's demands, but then they hurt you for it. Yes, technically you could refuse the sex, but then you're hurt for it.

This is considered coercion, it was illegal far before SJWs even became a thing. Only difference is that people are getting caught now.

Rape is when you physically force yourself onto someone.

Of course it's illegal to do that, but it's not rape if you are free to just say "no" and walk away. Whatever it is you can't call it rape, that's retarded.

>its the willful act of an evil mind and is a reminder of something that is uniquely horrible to sentient thought
Actually it's nature
Most animal intercourse is rape
Consent is just a social construct

Based Abdul telling it how it is

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Orangepeel?

That seems like an odd distinction to make, no? I mean yeah legally it's probably technically something else - maybe sexual assault or something - but ethically and practically I would consider it the same act. Either way, it's not "having consensual sex, then regretting it later and calling it rape," since the consent was coerced. Like I said, I haven't seen anyone in real life actually claim that post-sex regret is rape and be taken seriously.

>but ethically and practically I would consider it the same act.
user I have been sexually assaulted. There's a gigantic difference when you are not given the choice to say no. If you sleep with some old fat dude to advance your career you're willingly prostituting yourself. You are given the choice to say no and report the person for whatever misconduct.

He is safe in Japan

Coercion is the use of force to persuade someone to do something that they are unwilling to do. Weinstein was a piece of shit, but what he did was completely legal. He didn't use force nor persuaded anyone for sex. Women were willingly been with him to get involved in the business and they could easily refuse that offer.

If consent is just a social construct, so is rape. Therefore, animal intercourse is not rape because there isn't such a construct in the animal kingdom.
We're not wild animals though, so rape is very much real in our society, just like any other social construct.

Well, there are degrees to that too. In the case of Weinstein, for instance, he threatened to destroy careers (which he did) and sometimes even made death threats to those who didn't accept his advances. Forcing someone to have sex with you under threats, is pretty much rape.
There should probably be different degrees of it, as in murder, but it's still rape.

I don't deny there are women who did it willingly, and some that even made the offer themselves.

>but what he did was completely legal
He threatened women's livelihood and even lives, as in the cases of Ashley Judd and Salma Hayek. That's not legal.

Were not animals you idiot. Were different mentally and we have boundaries. Don't try to add your "animal" logic to rap when it doesn't apply. I could easily say "why not murder weaker humans? Animals kill their prey to protect their boundaries, so that neighbor with the loud music will have to go"

>not having a rape fetish

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A rape fetish is pretty normal.

I'd honestly say never. Not out of any sensitivity but simply because I can't think of any instance in fiction I've ever seen where rape adds genuine drama, pathos or any other emotion the author's trying to use it for. I'm not even an SJW type, it just always comes off as hacky. Up there with "the villain is an asshole because he was beat by his dad as a kid" deal that seemed to be especially popular in the '90s.

If I see it crop up I can instantly and pretty safely dismiss the author as lazy.

You just gave me the idea to make a series about "quick rape"
Guy just pops it in super quick and fucking books it. It's such an absurd idea

>having literally the most common fetish ever
>a sign of being not a normie

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Dont put it in your story for any reason unless it relates to a very specific plot, setting, or character point.

Means dont stick it in for shock value, fetishistic reasons, social or political commentary that has nothing to do with the plots or themes of the story.

And to be on point, unless your setting your world to be ultra violent (so gratuitous murder gore etc) it should be treated just as equally as you would handle murder and violence. So if you're using shorthand for murder, youd do the same for rape. If murder scenes are highly detailed, rape would follow suit. Keep consistency with the overall look and feel.

Haven't you read Watchmen?
That rape not only is completely in character with The Comedian, but also adds layers to both him, Laurie's mom and Laurie herself, and shows a much more complex relationship and power dynamic between the characters. And the whole sequence even adds a layer of characterization for Hooded Justice. And there are plenty of fiction works where rape is a major theme.
If you come across too many lazy writers, it might be because you're a lazy reader.

I think most writers who skirt around rape or try to make it edgy, a lot of them have no experience even talking to rape victims. First off, the most common type of rape is incestuous, a lot of women get raped by their dad or an uncle. It's fucked up, but I've met women who've gone through that who fucking joke about it. There's also violent criminal rape, but that's been noted as being traumatic because of, you know, the violence. On the flipside a lot of women have violent rape fantasies. Not all, but more than you'd expect. About the only time you see catatonic husks quivering from trauma are porn stars, oddly enough. A lot of them are alright, but there's a good percentage that use it to fuel their drug addiction and get into some really fucked bdsm shit and end up pretty warped. There's women who get raped and end up being massively sultry after that to cope, or they end up totally normal.

I think men get more melodramatic about rape than women because rape is inherently an extreme, either you're getting your dick wet or you have something invade your anus, it's either direct pleasure or pain for anyone who isn't homosexual. Even then the two cross over a lot.

Rape shouldn't HAVE to be specifically handled in a story. Rape can be anything, in real life it can be everything from tragic to sort of awkward and comedic in a fucked up way, erotic, repulsive, it can be a lot of things, why can't it be a lot of things in a story just like violence? As long as it isn't tonally dissonant and the artist sticks to what they're trying to communicate.

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You do know that rape fantasies =/= actually wanting to get raped, right?

The best way to portray is comedically. Prove me wrong.

I think the victim's reaction to being raped should change depending on who the victim is and what their reaction should reasonably be should supersede what people stereotypically expect it to be.

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>He threatened women's livelihood and even lives, as in the cases of Ashley Judd and Salma Hayek
If that's the case, then that makes it rape, my bad.

orange-peel

Well, in those cases it was attempted because they still refused but who knows how many he got that way. He certainly wasn't below that, and I wouldn't rule out physical violence either since he was a big guy.

Now, other cases like that Aziz guy are complete bullshit and just shitty experiences and maybe it was even him being a shitty guy, but that's not against the law. Women who try to steal the spotlight with such bullshit claims like that, or Brie Larson complaining a guy asked her phone number piss me off because they're shitting all over actual victims that need help and awareness. Sometimes, the best way to do something for a cause is to shut the fuck up.

The Deliverance one is still the worst one

Deliverance is a good one to understand how women feel when they watch a rape scene.
It's a brilliant example of a proper use of rape in a movie (the book is great too).