>season 1 Finn
>"Since then, I vowed to help anyone in need! No matter how small their problem!"
>season 5 Finn
>"lmao fuck this lemon kid who's being abused and held prisoner by lemongrab, I gotta try to get into bubblegum's skirt"
Why did the writers fuck Finn so hard?
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Pen and old writers got push out by Sugar and her gang.
It’s character development.
Yes, and sometimes a Souffle develops into a deflated pile of garbage.
You're not wrong but that doesn't make it good writing.
>the toilet
why did I never notice that
jesus
He went from beeing a kid that has an innocent crush on the princess to a horny teenager that wants to fuck bubblegum. You could argue the show should have gone in a different direction but that atleast explains his behaviour.
Eh, being a hero is overrated.
Finn would have been happier if he had just given up on solving other people's problems and just focused on solving his own.
Sugar abandoned the show ages ago, what the heck are you talking about?
The only thing Sugar did wrong was letting her tumblrina goons take over after she left.
5 and 6 are the worst seasons this is low hanging fruit
Sugar was the only person trying to keep this inconsistent train wreck of a show from going completely off the rails.
Feminism
>Finn goes from shallow character to more deep flawed character
reee
Puberty's a bitch.
He saved the lemon kid tho
OP is full of shit. The screenshot is from an episode that didn't even feature Lemonhope. If you want to be butthurt, at least be butthurt about something relevant.
Sugar left the show before Penn did you dope
>Finn goes from character treated decently by staff to some burden not given a shit by everyone
You need to see a psychiatrist. Or stop projecting yourself onto a cartoon character. I see you making these threads with this exact same wording every week.
>Why did the writers fuck Finn so hard?
HE NEEDS TO SUFFER YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND!
or good development.
What is this?
Sometimes writers declare total war on MC
character development
and puberty
>multiple episodes teaching Finn that being a hero dosent necessarily mean being a pussy ass pacifist
>late seasons and finale turn Finn into a pussy ass pacifist
Muto needs to go headbutt a railroad spike for what he did
>I LOVE Jake!
What did PB mean by this?
it does not mean you should never try a peaceful solution either
Finn goes from being unreasonably violent to being chill and desiring peaceful solutions as the first option.
Aggressive male BAD
He goes from being a fighter to being to afraid to lift a damn sword, theres nothing reasonable about it.
Early on he may of been "good" but he was a chivalrous barbarian who gave no actual thought to anything he did and couldn't deal with any complicated situation, this is reasonable as he was 12.
He was "afraid to lift a damn sword" for a solid half episode between the end of three buckets and the wild hunt, don't horseshit me. This autism about Finn is gay and fake.
Are you kidding me? Sugar couldn't even keep her own show from becoming an absolute garbage fire
It's character derailment.
>"I really enjoyed hanging out with you."
I dunno. You tell me cuckshitposter.
>and couldn't deal with any complicated situation
t. didn't watch earlier seasons
Fuck outta here "deep and develobment"fags
user Sugar left before Penn, and it was the people that stayed behind that turned the show into a "shit on Finn subverted expectations" clusterfuck. Not everything is Sugar's fault.
>Palcomix
better?
Sauce?
"Good"
He WAS good and virtuous.
He cargo culted the idea of virtue and goodness while never actually caring about doing the right thing, getting over this was always his character arc.
>Spends most of his time trying to bang Candy Hitler only to be completely fucked in the end with his descendant being a measly rat creature
You’re goddamn right I’m mad.
>while never actually caring about doing the right thing
Again. Trying to be a "deeb and development"fag attempting to tear down the greatness of the earlier seasons. He absolutely did care about doing the right thing.
>cuckshitposter.
It's not cuckshit. She does actually say she loves Jake, although in context it's nothing romantic or sexual. I guess because she thinks of him as a dog, which he is, but he's also a grown ass man, with a wife and 5 kids.
Oh. Well then when you put it like that, yeah she does care for himI see what you did there.
The Waning of the Oedipus Complex
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
>Discusses the waning of the Oedipus complex during adolescence and the various forms in which this takes place. The decline of psychoanalytic interest in the oedipal phase and conflicts but increases in interest and research on preoedipal development, the infant–mother dyad, separation–individuation, and the self and narcissism are discussed. An attempt is made to show that increased understanding of preoedipal issues rather than the devaluating of oedipal ones may increase understanding of these phenomena.
What kind of ethics? Loewald on responsibility and atonement.
>Hans Loewald’s rereading of Freud, especially in his understanding of responsibility, mourning, and sublimation, developed a kind of ethical thinking that culminated in his “Waning of the Oedipus Complex.” Taking over responsibility for oneself as atonement for the harm caused to those who gave us life, and taking in (internalization) of their best values, meant a continual process of separation and loving reunion. This contribution also suggests that further ethical thinking beyond Loewald’s own possibilities may be needed.
The Atonement–Forgiveness Dyad: Identification With the Aggressed
>In an effort to assuage the dystonicities of guilt and anxiety, the atoner forms an identification with his victim. Such an identification is, for the most part, unconscious and, to follow Racker's categorization, is either a concordant or a complementary one, with each pattern generating a distinct atonement narrative. Atonement is synonymous with neither reparation nor guilt, although each of them contributes to its formation and vicissitudes.
>Prominent in relational scenarios within the work of atonement is the search for a punitive “bad-enough object,” an external, self-recruited gratifier of the internal need for punishment. Later atonement scenarios are often thematically linked to earlier fantasies of destruction of the maternal breast (in Kleinian theory) or to the unfolding of the classical Oedipal tragedy.
>Atonement and forgiveness are constructed between the people involved, rather than being granted by one or attained by the other. Atonement wishes shape a number of partial identificatory processes that, when activated, form the ambience of the atoner–forgiver dyad. These include elements of repair, reconciliation, and repentance.
>The plotlines of Crime and Punishment and The Brothers Karamazov reflect Dostoyevsky's emerging understanding of the atonement process, from an earlier focus on Raskolnikovian self-torment to an Alexian (Karamazov) vision of reparative benevolence. Revenge and atonement are closely linked, with atonement often representing revenge against the self, taken on behalf of a complementarily-identified-with victim. This article provides some clinical manifestations of atonement, representing a continuum of greater or lesser psychopathology.
What does all this have to do with Finn
I think you have Finn confused with Bubblegum. Every time she claimed she was “greater gooding”, she was just as bad as the no sense of right and wrong Wizards she despises but with science.
1. Puberty.
2. She's not wearing a skirt.
"Playing with fire" comic book
Might be one of the only good things to come out of this mess
Puberty. Puberty. Puberty.
Why must a lot of teenage male characters be tanked by this aspect
...and it doesn't matter because YOU'LL HAVE NONE!
I'm so mad that Danielle Corsetto raised my standards.
Not his wife, Rainicorn is his girlfriend.
They actually mention this.
Damn right. Finn arrested himself when he realized that he'd kidnapped Ice King when he hadn't actually done anything worth being arrested for. Dude was a paladin through and through.
Pisses me off when people try and shit on early Finn and want to justify all the shit he's gone through as "development" and "maturity"
Bum
The shit-writers that started sucking the cunts and chopped up ballsac-, I mean >""""""""""vaginas""""""""""""" of the literally whom demographic for brownie-points.
It wasn't clear?
Based and Redpilled.
>So, there is a decreased interest in the Oedipus complex, but what if we focused on PRE- adolescent effects of the Oedipus complex?
So, we're talking Freud now?
He still had the same amount of depth. It's just that all his positive traits were either replaced with negative ones or subverted in the most shallow, pseudo-intellectual way possible.
That episode with the crying mountain is entirely about Finn solving problems without beating anything up. The show is also called "Adventure Time" and was initially sold as being about exploring dungeons and fighting monsters/wizards/demons to rescue princesses. Finn being The Littlest Paladin fits much better than him being a mopey, passive navel gazer.
I cannot fathom why they think dragging Finn down so much is a good thing. Cartoon reviewers on YouTube sing its praises despite this. Why?
>Cartoon reviewers on YouTube sing its praises despite this.
They do? Because I pretty distinctly remember any and all enthusiasm for Adventure Time slowly withering away starting with season five, until only the most hardcore elements of its fandom gave any kind of a shit. But then, maybe those were just the people making the reviews.
Anyway, it's usually pointless to speculate on why this sort of thing happens, but it really does seem like all the talent just sort of left or became less involved, leaving behind nothing but pretentious hipsters. Pendleton Ward probably had the most enthusiasm for the whole "high fantasy, madcap D&D adventures" concept, and as much as people rag on Sugar, the episodes she wrote tended to treat Finn with way more dignity than the stuff you saw after she left. Shit, you've even got that one writer mentioned earlier in the thread who straight-up said Finn deserved to suffer, so I can only imagine that the remaining staff harbored some sort of resentment toward the whole "aggressive boy hero" archetype.
are you retarded?
we all love jake
Finn and Marceline.
The real Marceline, mind you. Not that glorified bipolar handbag that replaced her in Season 4 onward.
>nuAT defense force can’t remember episodes
Figures.
If you look for season reviews or retrospectives, then yeah there’s heaps of praise. People in there usually agree that AT slumped with seasons 5-6 but rose to “greatness” again with 7 onwards. Something I personally disagree with wholeheartedly.
It wasn’t S6 but in no means something to oogle and write home about.
>tfw genocidal dictator PB will never come back
Because weak people think they are clever for destroying what they cannot create.
>heroic Finn will never shag sweet Nazi PB mumbling German sweetnothings in a radical honeymoon
You’re making me more sad user. What the hell have these writers moved on to do? I’m pretty sure Hanna K only retweets Bubbline and Partridge is “trans” now
>What the hell have these writers moved on to do?
Pen is working on something for Netflix. Adam Muto is working on his own series at CN. Most of the writers went to work on Summer Camp Island. Steve Wolfhard went to work on Amphibia.
Honestly, Season 1-4 Finn had no flaws, besides being too enthusiastic sometimes. He was a simple character that was fun to watch because of all the cool stuff happening to and around him. In later seasons they tried to introduce more character by giving him the flaw of being kinda obsessive and occasionally self doubtful. Honestly both are fine if you think of them as completely different characters, but as a development of a character he just kind of grew a couple flaws that weren't present before.
>later Finn
>good
Early Finn all day
I don't think Season 1-4 Finn had no flaws. He was very much a child. He didn't understand everything, and he could be impulsive and non-self-aware
The same could be said for Pb before she went full bitch
>before she went full bitch
You mean full bi
I like both Finns but disagree early Finn had no flaws. He was a straight up idiot, impulsive, and was very morally intolerant.
He was certainly more idealized compared to later Finn who they tried to make more "realistic."
But I think with later series Finn the only flaws they pulled out of nowhere was him manipulating shit which is a pretty big deal since it tanked Flame Princess and made Finn be mopey for a season, that wasn't built on any previously laid ground.
I still love Finn even if the show stopped loving him after a certain point.
They just like making stuff up for their gossip channels.
Reminder that FP gets filled with cinnamon cream every night
>bi
You’re right! Both of them turned into bitches. Marcy into PB’s handbag and PB a cunt.
>boring, shitty character gets paired up with an ugly retard who's like 30 years old
a just fate
I don't think people who view things this way are necessarily right but the show does let that be a possible interpretation to be drawn, to the extent that some people who even liked the finale thought he became a full fledged pacifist even though I don't think that was meant to be what happened (but with AT I guess who ever really knows).
I saw the finale as him just recognizing that a war in which thousands of innocent people would be killed or worse is a very bad thing and trying to fight that with more violence wouldn't be a good idea and would lead to worse down the line. Looking from this view I do think it's neat enough but if the show was trying to tell me Finn learned to ALWAYS be peaceful and NEVER be violent then they are dumb.
The true mark of Finn's maturity should be understanding that both have their place and having the wisdom to know when to employ one or the other to do good.
I think the finale managed that decently enough but there should've been hinting that Finn would've used violence if he had to or that he was fine with fighting in other scenarios. Having one of the montage clips be him and Jake fighting in a dungeon in classic fashion would've been good for that think.
Cough it up user
this stupid bullshit is why I left psychology for engineering. Bunch of psuedoscientific fucks with heads up their asses
>hurr Finn is a pacifist now
Why do retards think this? He clearly isn't.
He did get pussified pretty hard
Even in the final fight he clearly isn't just resigned. He jumps into a chaos gods mouth to go after Betty and Simon.
the show got new writers. It became a different show after season 5.
ITT: people that stopped watching during the sugar era and just read outrage threads from then on
The InCase one where Marceline has a dick is superior.
>thicc college age PB
To be fair lemon Moses was a douchebag and deep down potentially villainous. The lemons needed Finn's help but that kid deserved no heroic intervention.
Wrong also gtfo bubblinefag
I agree with sloppily drawn Jake
>the show depicted PB creating the candy people to be retards on purpose so they couldn't overthrow her and the audience was supposed to feel sympathetic to her
Adventure Time I like you but you made it really hard a lot of the time
One thing that bothers me is that early on, it looked like Bubblegum was just one generation in a long line of candy rulers. And then they just threw it all out the window because?
Honestly, AT got boring after Season 2. Why should I care?
they pretty much made the CK a completely shallow location (moreso than it originally was) to add more depth to Bubblegum.
it kinda sucks since I think the other way would've been cooler and still allowed her to have plenty of depth without changing her character so much that you can barley call her the same person.
always liked to think she cared for the candy people because it was what the king and queen would've wanted her to do or something, she always did seem annoyed they were such idiots, but then it's shown that she made them all herself and continued making them for 8 centuries.
I can't believe people still parrot this, season 3 is the peak of the show.
>can't counter argument
REEEEE SEE THERAPIST STOP PROJECTING
Even if he makes these "same threads with same wording" he is still right in the end
How can a show go from funny wacky adventures to drama-tumblrshit-pandering for brownie points ruining half of the characters in the process
Oh and by the way, finn was actually for kids and teens to project in to
> I think the other way would've been cooler and still allowed her to have plenty of depth
Nope. Nope! Gotta make room for the immortal lesbians. No if's and's or but's.
> Being the same character for five seasons let alone the whole series.
Do you have any idea how boring that sounds?
Hundreds of episodes equating to nothing.
AT shitposted at me so hard that stuff like this can't elicit anymore reactions from me
it would've been funnier if you said "no if's and's or bi's" though, gettit. because they're dykes and people ignore they're bi. I mean who really gives a shit anyway in the end, it don't matter nothing.
Damn that's nice. I wish Blushmallet did something other than SU lesbians 99% of the time.
he lives in world full of monsters, demons, evil wizards, and in season 3 forwards, generic zombies that have no real place in a fantasy cartoon with sword fighting sharks, and evil warmongering candy families.
Literally never a reason to not just stab evil things immediately
AT: Marceline if when?
>> Being the same character for five seasons let alone the whole series.
>Do you have any idea how boring that sounds?
You realize that describes shows like Ed Edd n Eddy, Billy and Mandy, and Flapjack, right among a whole slew of other great shows and films?
Not even story requires, or justifies a shift of character
no it has to change
god damn preach. I dont know where this mentality of "have to develop and mature" instead of making good comedy came from with this fandom.
It's not just Adventure Time. I've seen other shows that the need to ruin perfectly good dynamics because "muh progression."
I cant even fucking believe this but HES RIGHT!
RS Got a better ending than AT!
fucking pussy ass bitch
>Righteous hero must go through bad puberty and lose what made him so entertaining and what made the audience root for him
It doesn't click. Why introduce teenage drama and daddy issues onto Finn?
Because it's "realistic". What, are you some pathetic, man-child, incel who needs to hide away from reality?
I guess more than three quarters of the entire world are incels because most prefer older spongebob to the newer episodes.
Spongebob attracts people who actually enjoy quality content, rather than the pretentious soys Adventure Time found itself stuck with.