Looking back now, how did Marvel EVER let this get published in the state it did?
Were they really too afraid to say "no" to Loeb?
Same goes for Ultimates 3. As soon as the first script was submitted, why didn't anybody step in? Was it not obvious what a significant step-down it was going to be from Ultimates2?
How bad was Ultimates 3?
>Loeb wants to write X-Men
>Marvel asks him to write Ultimate X-Men
>Bendis and Millar ask him to expand his arc into a wideline event
>Bendis and Millar tell him to make it edgier, to have consequences
>Loeb reluctantly agrees, makes a heartbreaking story full of real tragedies
>Bendis and Millar fans blame you for messing up an already edgy and played out universe
>based MC2 stays safe and sound
Shockingly, appallingly bad.
>makes a heartbreaking story full of real tragedies
No, it was edgy, tasteless and for some reason comedic
I thought he wrote this because his son died of cancer and he was just really fucking pissed about it so he channeled that into his writing
Was this the one were Thor is confined to a bedlam and Loki and a bunch of frost giants attacks New York?
Cap realizes that Pietro and Wanda are fucking, and Janet giggles and says how they are in love.
>How bad was Ultimates 3?
Pietro and Wanda had an incestuous relationship, Tony had a sex tape get leaked, Blob wanted to EAT WASP, and Magneto killed Wanda when he was aiming at Pietro.
Oh, brother-sister incest. How cute.
You forgot Blob threatening to EAT JANET! THEN DOING SO IN ULTIMATUM!
I hated Ultimatum at first but then after reading Ultimate X-men all the way through I hated it significantly less.
Or how Pyro who was a good guy was suddenly bad and tried to rape Valkyrie?
Ultimate Pietro and Wanda were so shit. God damn I hate Millar and Loeb
>Pyro tried to rape an Asgardian
Why did anyone like the Ultimate series again?
>tfw you love everything about Ultimatum.
Feelsgoodboys.jpg
Save your (You)'s btw. Could give less of a shit what you think.
No continuity baggage.
Oh hey its the retard from the confession thread
>Bendis and Millar tell him to make it edgier, to have consequences
Are you trying to say Bendis and Millar pranked the fuck out of Loeb?
Because that would be funny.
But it created its own baggage
>It's not the 1940s, Cap! Brothers and sisters fuck all the time NOW!
Not me, but that would make two of us.
Hope they weren't being ironic.
Whoever you are, wherever you are, know that you will always be my brother!
people forget how much of a hack Jeph Loeb is. It's spilling over into his TV stuff too.
Didn't he write House of M and/or Age of Ultron?
Are those poorly received?
Don't really read Marvel.
>remember seeing Doctor Strange get killed off unceremoniously
>turns out it was actually Doctor Strange's son, who took up the role
Jesus. Why is it everytime a new alternate universe is opened up, all the writers flood in and tear it down for shock value?
It seemed to create baggage at a super fast rate. Only title I liked in the whole line was Ultimate Spiderman, and nothing else really made sense with it. Like Spiderman was a pretty normal book, but everything else was edgy as fuck.
Heroes got so hilariously bad.
>>Dad villain
>>"You're grounded!"
The first one was fucking great. Marvel wanted to take the Avengers and reboot them for the 2000s. So Millar, in trademark form, basically made a movie pitch. And whether intentional or not, it comes off as an entertaining, tongue-in-cheek jingoistic parody of superheroes and cinema. And it works. I thought so then, and I think so now. If you imagine the Avengers as a 9/11-era superpowered Michael Bay propaganda film I can't imagine you would be too far off from Ultimates.
I can't remember anything about the second one.
not his fault the death of his son drove him crazy
the colors books are great
that's bendis and only retards like them
Marvel forgot what made the Ulimate line so appealing in the first place. It reimagined iconic characters in a modern setting that new readers could easily get into without getting bogged down by decades of continuity.
But Ultimatum fucked it all up. It killed a bunch of iconic characters and changed the landscape of the universe for the worse. It was no longer a world casual readers could get into, Ultimate was now bogged down by its own continuity and suddenly the iconic characters were gone and most didn't come back. Ultimate became something only hardcore fans who were probably already buying 616 comics as well were reading. It eventually became the "hey, let's do all the things we can't do in 616 because status quo, anything goes here!" universe.
They both felt like 2000's films, and I liked them for it. The second one had those other country superpowered people invade the US and the leader had a Darth Maul saber. It was so 2000's.
they basically got bored with the Ultimate setting and asked him to shake it up
ooops
>jingoistic parody
>If you imagine the Avengers as a 9/11-era super powered Michael Bay propaganda film
Your a idiot. Ultimates 2 ends with them leaving Shield because their work for the government was causing more harm then good and before that Cap questions Nick plenty especially during Ultimate Six.
he's the best modern Batman writer and the best modern Superman writer
>No, it was edgy, tasteless
Only Blob eating Wasp & Hank killing Blob was, the rest was fine.
>and Loki and a bunch of frost giants attacks New York?
That was New Ultimates, not great but much better then 3 or Ultimatum and worth getting for the Frank Cho art alone.
>Tony had a sex tape get leaked
I really don't understand why this is a big deal.
>>tfw you love everything about Ultimatum.
>Feelsgoodboys.jpg
>Save your (You)'s btw
I was also in the confession thread, I wasn't the one who stated his love for it but I did respond saying I find it harmless and fine ignoring the Blob/Wasp thing and that I liked the shakeup to the Universe.
>I really don't understand why this is a big deal.
People cared about sex tapes back then. Now, everyone has one.
>but everything else was edgy as fuck.
Except for Hank trying to kill Wasp, nothing was notably edgy about Ultimates V1 or 2.
>I really don't understand why this is a big deal.
Because the whole team stood around watching it for no particular reason
Are you retarded? Did you just gloss over the part where I said I don't even remember the second one?
>Pietro and Wanda had an incestuous relationship
Always been the case, picture related.
>Tony had a sex tape get leaked
Sorta always been the case.
>Blob wanted to EAT WASP
He didn't want to eat her, he DID eat her. And yeah, that one was really unnecessary.
>Magneto killed Wanda when he was aiming at Pietro.
To be honest, that made more sense than Colossus overpowering Magneto's control over the metal that makes up his body, and punching his lights out, because he got enraged when he saw Wolverine getting tortured (in that continuity, Piotr was hard gay and had the hots for Logan - oh also, he regularly uses drugs to become strong, because otherwise he can't lift up the weight of his own body).
Because a lot of it was genuinely fun. It was Ultimates 3 and Ultimatum where it dropped the ball really, really hard.
but the Netflix shows proved he literally does not understand any character beyond already popular ones (ie, Batman, Superman, Daredevil). Even Punisher was trash.
Do you think he wrote the Netflix shows or something?
no but he had a strong influence on all of them seeing that he was executive producer - meaning he has clear final say
he wasn't the showrunner for any of those but he's responsible for Daredevil, Luke Cage season 2, Agents of KINO, Legion, Runaways and Clock&Dagger
Punisher is always trash in every medium and adaption
Netflix Luke Cage is trash. They took a hard-edged badass and turned him into a boring sensitive pussy.
The Scarlet Witch just wasn't allowed to be in _anything_ in this period. Banned from 616 after "No More Mutants," killed off in Ultimates. Joss Whedon's last good act was to save the character.
In the early '00s it looked like the Ultimate line might become more popular than 616, but the editors of 616 got it together and managed to fix the popularity of most of the comics without rebooting them.
But now most of the Ultimate line didn't really have a reason for existing (except USM, which was Bendis's personal sandbox). It wasn't cooler than the mainstream line, and it had been around long enough that it wasn't any easier to follow than the mainstream comics.
So they tried to do for the Ultimate line what Avengers Disassembled had done for the Avengers - nuke the whole thing and start over. Loeb just somehow managed to turn out an event that was even worse than Disassembled, probably because the editor of the Ultimate line, Ralph Macchio, was a well-liked veteran who had absolutely no sense of quality control.
(Macchio edited Daredevil under Frank Miller and D.G. Chichester; Simonson's Thor and "Avengers: the Crossing." He will let the talent do whatever they want and sometimes the result is good and sometimes it's utterly terrible, rarely in between.)
Ultimate Spider-Man had a consistent quality to it...up until Bombshell joins.
>I really don't understand why this is a big deal.
It did lead to that bit where everyone was sitting around casually watching it.
>Always been the case, picture related
Fuck off
Everything tell apart after the Brits got through their initial ideas for Ultimate. Then they blamed the train wreck on a dead child and mutants. Look at Ultimate Doom, you can't tell me that made any sense. Something happened that changed where that was suppose to go and it came from Editorial. What happened in 616 Marvel one year after Ultimatum?