Who was in the wrong here?

Juveniles are better for dark magic since they got more life force. That candle starts burning the second they're born. So it's a special case.

Deer are assholes.

>imaginary rules
It's literally illegal to kill fawns and yearlings. Your hunting license will be revoked if you're caught.

>Fantasy Magicstan has the same laws regarding game as modern America.

You can talk to some animals in real life user. Don't confuse a soul with intelligence or even consciousness.

Animals dont have souls.

>murder a dragon
Who had probably murdered bucketload of innocent people after attacking the village instead of flying away.
I wonder if they'll ever bring that up.

>its only okay to kill baby calves for meat

Claudia for using the essence of a deer.

Dragons are hypocrites, niggas kill humans for crossing the border but fly over it as if it doesn't apply to them, nigga was just daring humans to attack him by flying so low

The baby deer shot first.

>niggas kill humans for crossing the border but fly over it as if it doesn't apply to them
That's because the Xadia border is a racist institution specifically in-canon designed to keep all humans out of the East, maintained by the dragons, that was set up after their ethnic cleansing campaign drove the humans out. Seriously, how can anyone think Xadia and the humans are on morally equal terms is beyond me.

>using a living thing as fuel
we do this literally every day en masse and huge amounts of it go completely to waste with food processing. At least dark magic can control where the energy goes.

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Rayla. Fuck her and her autistic hatred of dark magic that's so extreme she was being snooty over Callums dying comatose body. Anyone who eats meat shouldn't disagree with what Claudia did.

You should be asking if humans cant so magic then how the fuck can Ezran talk to animals. Dark magic doesnt use the soul, they took a spike off that dragon and are going to use it for a spell but the dragon is alive and out there.

Literally every country in the world has those, though. Those laws were around for centuries you dimwit

I want to see what Claudia would do if her father ordered her to fuck one of the kings of the human kingdom in order to get them to agree to go to war.

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You wouldn't gut a hundred baby deers to save your sibling from being paralyzed for the rest of their life?

I've probably already eaten a hundred pigs by now and I'm not even 30 yet, so yeah I would.

She would come up with some dark magic spell to make them think they fucked her when all they did was have a seizure and cum in their pants.

Thanks this gives me something to fantasize on. I would imagine her feeling bad about it originally then her autism takes over.
>Your Grace, I wear the dress you sent to my room and if you allow me I have a few potent spells to do something about those fantasies your concubines whispering about...

Some illusion spell where she is getting ruthlessly sodomized by the King while in reality she is just sitting on the edge of the bed, moaning and screaming when it is appropriate with a bored face.

King of the Forest is gonna fuck her up at some point.

Dunno will her brother turn into some kinda freaky dark magic mutant?

Deer for being so young, agile and alive.

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YOU

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Animals have souls, they don't have IMMORTAL souls, at least in typical Christian teaching.
Think about that; God gave animals souls that dissolve into nothing when they die, and then gave them the ability to feel dread, specifically so they knew when Man can around that could be curtains of Man was hungry or wanted some clothing.
Brutal.
Veal is farmed, it's illegal to kill baby wild game. Fucks up the population.

Young creatures are still weak though. I'd say the wick's still being made up until they're an adult, then it's all downhill from there

If anything it made her look badass and Claudia had every right to do it. Fuck if killing a doe is all it takes to cure a broken spine then she'd be DUMB not to do it. People kill deers for food anyway. This is even more noble.

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Anyone else feel this season was a bit boring?

Counterpoint, white hair on hot young fart queens gets my pee-pee hard.

Dark magic is intended to be grey. The fact they have sympathetic characters not only use it but defend it's use should make this evident. It can achieve great good through questionable yet somewhat excusable means.

The issue is that it's a materialistic way of interacting with the world, emphasized by it's consumption of material components, and follows an ends justify the means philosophy, ignoring the damage it does both to the caster and the creatures it consumes. It is ultimately the wrong choice not because of some inherent evil in what it does or in those who use it, but because it is power wielded recklessly and without understanding or care for how it affects the world around it. It is purposefully meant to parallel primal magic, who's users do not consume anything to cast and require an intimate understanding of the element they manipulate to be able to achieve anything at all.

TL;DR: It's just the magic version of fossil fuels vs renewable energy

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No. You have to spend years studying dark magic, you cant use it lightly or you end up like Callum. Primal magic is the easy shit, where you're just born with it and it just works. People understand that it uses fuel, it's just no one fucking cares, everything uses fuel. People use fuel for fucks sake.

>Dark magic is intended to be grey.
Then why was there a three episode long tripping balls sequence about "DARK MAGIC = BAD"

It was all in his head. He used it without studying for years and so he took some backlash that claudia didnt face when she cast the exact same spell. The visions were entirely him while he was knocked out.

Except that the visions where about how him, an established good person with a sound moral compass, rejectes dark magic because of how bad it is in favor of trying harder and eventually learning the secret of sky majic.

And you can't use it intensively or you end up like Viren. You just can't use it without consequence, that's the point. It will always fuck you somehow.

Primal magic you have go on some bullshit spirit quest and have a near death experience to figure out. Yeah I get the show made it look easy, but that is not a normal life occurrence. You're meant to interpret Callum's experiences as extremely atypical and life threatening.

Elves are just dicks and always cheat at everything. They probably cheat at dark magic too.

Because Callum thought it was bad, and it was his fever dream.

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Separating dark magic from the other primal sources is retarded. It gets a face on the cube just like the other five.

>Because Callum thought it was bad
When a moralfag MC has an opinion of something it's usually meant to be the objectively right choice and the side the audience is meant to take.

Souls aren't real, dingus

And the show also showed how claudia, who is also established as a good person with a sound moral compass, thought it wasn't so bad, and had her use it to heal her crippled brother with only minor consequences.

It's almost like the show is presenting you with multiple viewpoints to give a broad perspective on hte matter.

There is no "except". That happened, and it was in his head. Rayla tells him how bad she thinks dark magic is, so it's in his coma dreams. Yknow, like a normal person.

Callums experiences were atypical and life threatening, I didnt say they weren't, I just told you why they were so. Claudia warned him, he cast a spell without understanding it fully. Also the things that happen to Viren seem to only happen to him and no one else, and don't happen all the time even to him. Quit reaching.

No, it doesn't. It only got a face in the cube in the dream

>a 7 sided cube
Bruh

Dark magic isn't a source. What creatures contain dark magic? When would it glow? It wouldn't make sense for it to have a face on the cube

>after a long time Soren loses it
>Claudia has to put her brother down
I want this and hate this idea at the same time.

Part of the deal was getting raped by the soul of the deer all the way there.

Oh my bad, I thought it did have a face on the cube.

>Also the things that happen to Viren seem to only happen to him and no one else, and don't happen all the time even to him. Quit reaching.
Yeah they only happen to the only guy we've seen that's used dark magic his entire life, and that white streak on Claudia certainly isn't ominous foreshadowing that she's headed down the same road

Dark magic is like the underlying core of all magic, the "primal sources" are just surface level flavor. Dark magic is the practice of taking one magic, striping it of its limitations and flavor/type, and using that energy to make any spell you want. Nothing wrong with it, its magic in its purest form.

Even if you believe in souls, animals don't have them.

Aaravos also has been using dark magic for a long ass time, no effect on him. And again, it doesnt happen to Viren every time. You cant base a theory on inconsistency.

But you can't use any component for any spell. Component you consume has to be the same element as the spell you want to cast. It's not pure at all, you're actually going through an intermediary rather than tapping into the source directly

Literally perfect

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There's no sign that the spell and component must be of the same source. It's true that a specific component must be used for a specific spell, but the source association isnt established.

She didn't do anything wrong. I mean, that doe was asking for it. If a doe just walks up to you and presents itself like that, who in their right mind wouldn't force it to orgasm repeatedly for several hours on end to extract it's essence? The doe will be fine, it just won't be able to walk until it gets it's head out of the orgasmcoma.

She truly is best girl. The best case scenario is she parallels Callum breaking norms and expectations by being a human using primal magic, and breaks norms and expectations by proving how good dark magic can be and leading the way towards its acceptance.

Bruh, we just met Aaravos and he's locked away in some interdimensional prison with every mention of his existence magically erased. Whatever the fuck is going on with him, he's clearly an exceptional case. hell we haven't even interacted with him enough to know if he's all fucked up or not. Took like three episodes to even find out Viren eats butterflies

I don't know how much more blunt they have to make it

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Aaravos is truly ancient, hundreds of years old even. If dark magic took a toll over time, he would definitely feel it. And his existence isnt magically erased, the King knew him and was Callum was able to read his name in the letter. That was a spell he specifically cast to trick Viren. Every thing that breaks your headcanon cant be an exception, you've got to base it on the facts. The only exceptions that are allowed are the ones the characters say are exceptions on screen.

They could put it in the show, for one. For two, you could show me something actually relevant to this conversation at all.

Fuck the deer, you’re right. She looks like Michael Jackson in his very late stages.

Literally just an animal. Go away.

We don't know anything about him. We don't know how long he's been wherever he is, we don't know if he isn't or isn't affected by dark magic use, we don't even know if he's been doing any dark magic while in mirror world. We saw only one dark magic spell to make a phone then a bunch of primal spells. Viren doesn't immediately go all creepy zombie from casting a single spell, even though we know he does eventually and has to do a (still not detailed) thing to fix it. We haven't seen Aaravos enough to tell if he really is an exception, and his circumstances are so peculiar it wouldn't even be reaching if he were. We just don't have enough data on him to include him in any theory.

>tfw had a white streak like that in my hair since I was that age
>never got to use any cool magic to cause it

It's not fair.

>I can ignore when me theory fails on the grounds that I dont know that he ISN'T an exception yet
Holy shit you are seriously reaching here. And we do know a some about him, he's in human history books which have been cut off from new additions about elves for hundreds of years. We dont know exactly how old he is, but we know he's old as fuck.

>tfw just turning 24
>tfw hair is already 1/3rd gray
>still another 6 years until my powers unlock

It hurts, bro. But we'll make it. Once we're wizards everything will be all right.

I WANT MOOORE!!!!

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Why not the one queen?

>We dont know exactly how old he is, but we know he's old as fuck.
And we don't know how long he's been in prison, what he's been doing in prison, etc etc

You form theories based on what you've seen. We only have Viren as a base for long term Dark magic use. we know he goes lich after casting like six spells, sneaks away to his private chamber to eat a butterfly, then goes about life like nothing's wrong at all.

We have not seen Aaravos cast more than a single spell, and there is no evidence to say that he would need any sort of butterfly treatment if he has not been doing anything for however long he's been where he is. We don't even know the extent of the realm he's in, and we know he can go off to someplace we/Viren can't observe whenever he feels like it.

You argue Aaravos as disproving the theory but he hasn't actually done anything that goes against what we've been shown. He's purposefully vague and mysterious in everything we know about him.

Game management has been a concept in most of the world since prehistory. Humans hunted most large land mammals to extinction and experienced starvation before they figured out how to agriculture and poaching on lands declared for reservation has frequently carried a death penalty for most of human history.

Your counterpoint is only sound if it disproves you as well. The "you cant say because you dont know yet" doesnt work alongside "I can say because the things we dont know havent said no yet".

I'm saying I don't know how Aaravos works and thus not considering him in any theory. You were the first to bring him up as proof of anything.

No I brought up a huge list of times your theory didnt work out and Aaravos was one of them. You are the one claiming Aaravos is an exception while knowing nothing about him. You must assume that someone isnt an exception until they are proven to be one. The default is that they are not an exception. That's why they call it a fucking exception.

I don't think he's turning lich after a certain number of spells, I think he's doing it after especially intensive spells.

>I brought up a huge list of times your theory didnt work out and Aaravos was one of them.
>Also the things that happen to Viren seem to only happen to him and no one else, and don't happen all the time even to him. Quit reaching.
Okay, so our basis is three dark magic users for this "huge list." We already have Claudia suffer some effects similar to Viren, so she doesn't disprove anything.
>Aaravos also has been using dark magic for a long ass time, no effect on him. And again, it doesnt happen to Viren every time. You cant base a theory on inconsistency.
Well first we don't know that, but it's fairly safe to assume it's true. Under that assumption, we have seen Aaravos use dark magic once since his appearance. What happens when you cast dark magic once? Using Viren (and even Claudia) as an example, nothing. We know Viren eventually suffers some effects after repeated use, but we also know he can reverse them easily enough. Let's continue assuming and say Aaravos has in the past in some instances we haven't seen used dark magic repeatedly and to the same degree as Viren. What would stop him from using Viren's method to reverse it?

>our basis is three dark magic users
The basis is all the separate instances of dark magic use, not all the users. Every single instance has to consistently follow the rules, which is obviously why I included Viren not always being affected.
>Well first we don't know that
Fucking correct, this is literally my entire point you retard. You dont know he's an exception but you're just insisting that he is. This proof doesnt go both ways. You seriously need to realize what "exception" means. Us not knowing much about Aaravos disproves you but does not disprove me, that's just how it fucking works.
>We know Viren eventually suffers some effects
Sometimes, which is important because if you were right it would be every time.
>after repeated use
Nope, stop that. You dont know that that's the cause, you're basing a theory off another theory, neither of which you have strong evidence for outside of other theories.

She didn't steal the soul, she stole the nervous system and vitality of the deer. Where is it said Black magic need souls?
We see they use dragon snot and flowers to make spells, does the snot of a dragon has soul?
If anything it was her own soul she used to cure her brother, after how fucked up she ended after the healing spell.

Not only this, but they have a part of a dragon right now, that spike, and are planning to use it in a spell while the dragon escaped and lives. Dark magic objectively doesn't use souls.

Dark magic needs magic creatures. Claudia says it in like ep2 of season 2. "Take the magic in other things and squeeze it outta them" or something like that

Yes, and?

the one who jacked of the deer

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I'm fairly certain magic doesn't mean "nervous system and vitality"

>deer are magic creatures
wat
Yknow what guys, I'm starting to think the answer to all this shit is just that this show has pretty fucking terrible writing. There probably isnt answers, just plot holes and shit writing.

Doesn't mean "soul" either.

all leaving things have magic, magic is just a force of nature in their world, differencei is some a connection to an Arcana, thats the difference between a magic creature and and regular animal

Fuck it, it's what they said. I'm starting to suspect everything in their world has magic and humans just haven't figured out how to use their own

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Bullshit, then why the fuck do humans not have magic? Are you saying you could use a human as a component in dark magic? Or what primal source are you saying deer are attuned to?

read the post again

>Or what primal source are you saying deer are attuned to?
It seems all animals would count as earth magic unless otherwise stated

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Yeah, but I'm not that guy who said it was. I'm just saying you're idea's wrong too

none, magic is inside them the same way air is inside the same way air is inside theuir lungs, but to have a connection to a primal source you need to have a deep undertanding of it, or be born with that connection

>all "leaving" things have magic
I assume living, but since you're being shitty and pedantic, I'm being thorough.
>differencei is some connection to an Arcana
Doesn't answer any of my questions so far.
>that's the difference between a magic creature and a regular animal
Still no answers. What is a "regular animal" if everything has magic? And if regular animals can be components, then again can humans be components? They're living so according to you they have magic, just no arcana. If humans cant be used, then regular animals cant be, so the deer must be magical somehow and this attuned to an arcana, which one? Your post doesnt answer shit you smug asshole.

Nothing wrong with this, problem is wizards are walking slippery slopes that lead to disaster
Dark magic could work if they framed it as a religion rather than academic magic
Dark wizards that know the price they must pay, they judge when and what it’s worthy to sacrifice and willing to become martyrs once they get too corrupted

>In Xadia all living things are connected to a primal source.

Some magical creatures live in the human kingdoms like that river serpent, made the cube glow. I doubt that horse the vet was taking care of had any magic,

The serpent showed as ocean magic though, not earth. Just a minor point of order.

Not him but Season 2 explicitly states that every living thing but humans is born with a natural connection to a primal source. The crazy old moon elf says that. So a Thunder Dragon is connected to the sky primal source but so is a regular pidgeon. How strong the connection likely has to do with how much dark magic you can wring out of it.

I dont recall that line, but assuming for now that it's true
>deer are magic creatures
>every time you eat, even if its plants, you're killing a magic being
>all that shit about "does it think? Does it feel? Does it have a family?" from the Queen is bullshit since she's killed probably thousands of magical creatures throughout her life
So my main point stands, shit writing. Figuring this stuff out is only going to pull up more plotholes.

That scene made it very clear that Callum is frightened of sweet, lovable Claudia's penchant for ripping the magic out of things.

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2slow

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The bad part is taking their magic. It's "a shortcut" as they like to repeat to us

This is completely unrelated to that conversation.

Except its significantly more laborious and costly than the automatic "born with it" magic of the elves. Shit writing.

>You dont know he's an exception but you're just insisting that he is.
I'm insisting he is an invalid source of data since we haven't seen enough of him to compare to others
>The basis is all the separate instances of dark magic use, not all the users. Every single instance has to consistently follow the rules, which is obviously why I included Viren not always being affected.
Oh, so you're arguing for each instance separately. Well then fuck everything I've said, yeah Aavaros and half the show invalidate the idea that dark magic is bad in every single instance.

dont need to get salty, and is not that to understand, I gonna try this again, Callum said the "whole world is a primal stone, because their world is is surrounded by magic, mages can drain magic from natural events because thpse natural events are a concentration of magic, the air itself is magic, so leaving in that world means constatly taking it in your body, not to mention drinking the water or being under the sun or moon, because those thing are a magin you are constantly absorbing it. Now for the arcana, is the same thing as a primal stone, is a connection to that element, if you understand that arcana you are connected to it and can use its power, you are assuming creatures have to be connected to a specific arcana, but they are connected to all of them all the time, but magic creatures have a deeper connection to specific arcana. Callum for example connected to the sky arcana but doesnt mean he cant connecte with the other ones, Aaravos undestood and connected with all six. and for your last question, by logic should be possible to use humans ass sacrifice. if something still confusing feel free to ask, thou most of this are just drawing conclusions from pieces the show threw at us

Don't worry, the turtle lion will clear everything up with a forehead poke when he tells Callum that humans willingly gave up their instinctive connection to magic knowing that it would allow them to form connections with all the Primal Sources through study and practice instead.

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>black magic bad
Yeah well Rah Tilt never fucking works, so you can fuck off with your Shaministic Bullshit.

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Shortcuts do not necessarily imply a cheaper cost, just quicker results, which may or may not be the case. I suppose the born with it casters and their one trick can do it quicker than a dark magic user, but they don't seem like they can do nearly as much as the dark magic guy.

Show does have pretty shaky writing, I'll agree wit that

>Not him but Season 2 explicitly states that every living thing

Lujanne said every living thing in Xadia has an arcanum.

>you have to give up your innate connection to gain more than one
But then what was Aaravos doing?

>I'm insisting he is an invalid source of data
You're still not grasping the core concept of what an exception is you fuck idiot. I'm not presenting an opposing theory here, I'm not using him as evidence, only you are doing that. You have to prove that he's an exception for you to be right. You cant claim hes an exception without proving it, and you cant just conveniently ignore every time your theory doesnt work or make sense.
>half the show invalidate the idea that dark magic is bad in every single instance
No. Fucking. Shit. How fucking stupid are you that it took you this long? Of course I'm using all of dark magic to try to determine what dark magic is. Are you seriously telling me that you aren't? How fucking stupid are you?
>oh, you're using EVIDENCE and FACTS? Well I just cant compete with that, so I GUESS you're right in your own little way. If you want to be OBJECTIVE about it and not just IGNORE OVER HALF THE SHOW like I do then fine.

pretty sure would be able to use sky magic too if she understood it like Callum,

I thought Dark magic only steals magic, not souls

dude, you too irritated about this fictional system in a cartoon

You're a fucking idiot and not a single word of this wall actually addresses any of your claims. You just repeat yourself in more words and you think that makes you right.

who knows what you can steal with dark magic, Viren was able to change souls between bodies, and he did stole Callums voice

I'm irritated that elementary concepts are completely lost on this person. The show is secondary.

Aaravos knows all the forms of magic, idiot. Its stated outright by the characters, and hes shown using it on screen. He even uses dark magic. You clearly dont have to give up anything to be attuned to multiple arcana.

>Aaravos
>she
I know he looks it but that voice firmly established it's a he

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And apparently he can ignite and snuff flames with no components or magic words, too. Who the fuck knows how that works. Shit writing.

I skipped Raylas name by accident

They clearly do in this fantasy setting.

said the guy without an argument

>what's his superpower
>pffft, ALL of them
He's best boy, I ain't gotta explain shit.

"Eating souls" is a joke about what Viren is doing to the butterflies. The show never uses language like that.

Most likely, it'll turn out that Viren's style of dark magic comes from a place of greedy deprivation in the user's mind and Claudia and Callum discover it's possible to use dark magic safely by simply tapping into another creature's Arcanum and "borrowing" a little bit of magic, but only if you can feel empathy for whatever you're tapping into.

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Yeah... but it gets kinda fuzzy with larger mammals.

I cant make a counterargument if you never make any supportive claims for me to counter.

you cant an argument because you have nothing to say

Ah, but would it have done anything if it wasn't provoked?

What the actual fuck. So you're countering your own claim now?

Correct. That is what I just said.

I mean it is entirely possible for him to have Dr.Girlfriends problem, but magic related

If Callum can figure out the sky arcanum as a normal, magicless human, it stand's to reason a magical being like Aaravos can work out the logistics of the other primal sources given time. It might be a case that Aaravos simply was the first elf to even try learning the other arcanums, much less mastering them

Yeah, but apparently humans CAN use primal magic if they meditate on the primal aspects. So dark magic is essentially a wasteful shortcut.

What would make the most sense is that dark magic draws power from your unconscious, and that the animals/sacrifices/spells are in fact not a part of it but a consequence.

And that abusing primal magic affects the user just as badly as using dark magic except in different ways, like for example the sun elves becoming bloodthirsty fighters after abusing to much power.

It crossed the border, which is apparently enough to warrant murder on sight according to elves when they find humans on their side. It was baiting a fight, obviously, but it was still in the wrong. Like Liam Neeson.

>Speak....so that i may hear you.....
>WHOA! That's a voice. Do you smoke cigarettes, or do you eat them?

no, what I was trying ro say is, I think Rayla would be able to use sky magic too if she understood the sky arcanum like Callum does, I just forgot to type Rayla on the other post

I would, but I wouldn't be surprised if people found that morally wrong.

Best character.

Wasteful, I'm not sure. Dark magic certainly does a lot, Aaravos has access to all magic and still uses fake magic to communicate with Viren. And I'm pretty sure the implication is that only dark magic could heal Soren. And again, it's not a short or easy path to learn dark magic either, they just thought it was the only possibility.

>Animals have souls, they don't have IMMORTAL souls, at least in typical Christian teaching.
>Think about that; God gave animals souls that dissolve into nothing when they die
Better than being slow-roasted for eternity and then dissolving into nothing for picking the wrong god.

I smiled every time Viren walked by him.

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I liked it better, the characters acted more intelligently than I thought they would.

So did you join the conversation late and take someone's place, or are you just kinda stupid? Because the discussion here was whether or not humans had to give up their connection to magic in order to have the opportunity to learn all kinds of magic, and if you think Rayla could do it then you're either arguing against yourself or you're someone else who didnt understand the conversation.

>for eternity
>and then
Dumbass.

Everyone in Hell just dissapears after Armageddon, user. God is supposed to take his faithful to a "new Heaven and Earth" and everyone else just gets fucked

Emma Frost did this to some politician in X-men First Class.

>Primal magic you have go on some bullshit spirit quest and have a near death experience to figure out.
either that or you live with it and around it for years, like the sailor.

This. Humans found a way to do magic and just ran with it without ever considering an alternative. Callum is probably to first human to even think he can do primal magic, much less actually pulling it off

So how much of this do you guys agree with?
AO3.org/17867006/chapters/42211268

I know. That's not what I'm pointing out here.

>set her up to be Magneto's #2 in First Class
>lol nevermind she's dead in Days of Future Past
Such a god damn waste of a good character

I was respondid to a guy talking about Aaravos, cant you even track back a thread before asking a stupid question?

If you think I'm going anywhere near that hellsite you can just go back to tumblr and repost it there.

It's funny. Claudia is the anti-Azula. Azula was so in tune with natural magic she could bend lightning. But she was batshit insane.

Claudia uses Evil Black Magic, but she cares about her family.

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Look, I said dark magic has consequence, be it the consumption of the materials or damage to the user or both. You said the personal damage only happened to Viren and I brought up it happening to Claudia too. You then brought up Aaravos, and I called him an exception because we know too little about his life to tell what effects it's had on him. I guess I was retarded and used the term exception wrong. I operated under the assumption dark magic is inherently deleterious, and that it takes repeated use for it to physically show on the user, which would be in line with a long term user such as Viren having more severe effects than Claudia, which I guess was another instance of retardation on my part. You were arguing that each instance must have the exact same effect on the user, which I don't think is a valid argument, and was not the same assumption I was working under besides. Somewhere along the line I lost my point of dark magic being portrayed as unsustainable as opposed to more sustainable primal magic, and started arguing a point I did not comprehend and was wrong about.

I admit I'm retarded and bad at debating so I cede to you.

Oh wow, I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, but you're actually both. Congratulations on being such a fucking idiot.

There's probably a way to practice it that doesn't destroy magical creatures.

I know hunting Does is bad. But if we could use Does to cure, say, crippling paralysis, we'd probably do it.

>you were arguing that each instance must have the exact same effect on the user
It has to either be the same effect, or a consistently increasingly intense effect. If the consequences grow over time, then it doesn't make any sense to cast a spell and have nothing happen after you've cast a spell and gone all gray.

You can already use it by taking just parts of magical creatures. You could probably just farm creatures for parts, like raising sheep for wool. The bigger issue is eventually turning into a lich

Yeah, we'd just ranch them like we do for veal.

Probably because humans are nomadic, haven't been anywhere long enough to figure it out.

>or a consistently increasingly intense effect.
We see that though. Viren goes zombie, Claudia goes gray. Viren eats butterflies to go back to normal, but then goes zombie again after casting a bunch more spells. I would conclude that the whatever the butterfly eating does resets his meter to low until he sends it back up and needs to eat another butterfly. I don't see how that conclusion is inconsistent with what we see.

>then it doesn't make any sense to cast a spell and have nothing happen after you've cast a spell and gone all gray.
Why wouldn't it work by thresholds?

>Bullshit, then why the fuck do humans not have magic?
They clearly do, they just have to manually connect to it.

We don't trade lives, Captain.

Humans absolutely would brutally rape and ingest a baby animal ripped from its mother's teat in a satanic ritual if it would heal even the most dire of illnesses or conditions in a loved one, but since it doesn't work that way, we can pretend to be morally superior to the idea of doing it.

If you think about it, tho, humans already do this, just in a much slower fashion, by testing and experimenting on animals and their genetic material to figure out how they can be more useful to us. Calling it a "necesary evil" is just moral grandstanding, it's simply human nature to exploit that which can be exploited for our own benefit.

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Soren for being the Goofus who started the whole situation anyways. It was dumb to provoke a fight with a fire breathing Dragon that was just flying around.

Then again maybe Claudia for not brining up she had a heat seeking missile attachment before the Goofus Soren would fire the first shot and miss.

>Except its significantly more laborious and costly than the automatic "born with it" magic of the elves. Shit writing.
Easier than getting struck by lightning.

I wonder if the illusionist elf does stuff like this, with the victim fucking a bowl of worms in reality.

Here you go then.
nautiscarader.tumblr.com/post/182978342285/callum-claudia-f-u-c-k

nautiscarader.tumblr.com/post/182978099785/headcannon-caldia-or-whatever-callum-claudia-is

Traditionally, black magic use sacrifice as part of the rituals inspired by the ancient pagan rituals. As usual, murricans are making a big deal of nothing. That's why it's called black/dark magic and not friendly magic or something.

That's the nature of life period

There's a reason she has three exes

This guy gets it.

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He's like, the Primal master...

if animals dont have souls, how do they get to heaven then? checkmate

Soren acted even dumber than I thought he would though, and I expect Callum to understand Lujanne's analogies better than he did

Dude what? Veal is a baby ripped from then teet of its mother, shackled so it cant learn to walk, eyes sown shut so it cant look for its ma, and the murdered.
Not for some kind cure or nothing, but baby meat is tender.
We lost that moral highground for something tasty, user.

No, it's actually a decent summary.

These two theories you're presenting cannot both be true. If long term use has an effect on you, it doesnt make sense for it to only effect Viren sometimes and not others, or for it to effect Callum on his first time.

Well if you're looking at life as a whole, is it really exploitation? It's just life using itself to better itself. It's more like recycling

Of course it's a summary, I literally said he repeated himself in different words. Are you brain damaged? A summary of a claim isnt supportive evidence.

>Claudia and Callum discover it's possible to use dark magic safely by simply tapping into another creature's Arcanum and "borrowing" a little bit of magic, but only if you can feel empathy for whatever you're tapping into.
Totally want this, it would make sense too. Why draw on the Primal source alone when you can network with all the nearby creatures. Calling it now, Ezran is going to ask his animal friends to help power Callum at some point.

Cows were asking for it when they went out dressed in such delicious flesh.

It always affects him, it just doesn't become visually apparent until a certain threshold of use. It's like not noticing your cartilage wearing away for 20 years until you start felling pain in your knees. You didn't suddenly lose it all at once, it was slow and unnoticeable for a time.

I guarantee when it full gets revealed that Aaravos gave the humans dark magic for some evil scheme and dark magic is seriously something bad, you will see people legitimately pissed about it, even though this is really obvious and the texts that Viren pulled out LITERALLY SAY THIS.

Fair enough, I'm guessing there's a less evil way to practice it.

AO3? It's literally just an archive for storing fan content beyond the reach of the nanny brigade(and safe storage if some other prominent website decides to up and scrub their servers of nsfw content). It's specifically set up so it's basically impossible to organize harassment campaigns on there if the busybodies decide something someone wrote is ~problematic~, what's the problem with it?

Once someone is arthritic their hands always hurt. They cant play piano just sometimes and then get arthritic pain when its dramatically convenient. Your theory still isnt consistent.

There are dozens of people struck with lightning every year, even without deliberatly trying to hold on to a lightning rod. If you consider that you´d need prior experience with a primal stone, you´d have a point since those are supposedly super rare and nobody knows how to make them anymore.

Take it up with the G man, I didn't write his book.

Still not getting the problem, are you?

It's a decent platform.

>Implying Claudia isn't going to become batshit insane

He doesn't just unzombify on his own. He eats butterflies which somehow fixes it, at least for a while

Did they? I'm a burger, I can't read any of the languages they were in.

I prefer the idea that humans originally just borrowed Arcana from other creatures and Aaravos taught them they could squeeze more power out of it by taking instead.

Fun fact most renewable energies have a bad drawback. The safest one I’m aware of is hydro electric. Solar power can cook birds flying by and will also put a hole in the ozone layer, wind kills birds and bats.

I'm strongly of the opinion that there is absolutely nothing at all wrong with dark magic as it's been presented, but if we do get new information that it's bad for some reason I'm not against changing my opinion. However if the plot twist was just that aaravos thinks it's bad and so gave humans a bad thing, that wont change shit. They need to reveal something to about dark magic or append something previously understood about it in season 3, or people will be completely sick of this vegan shit by then.

Best girl's gotta go worst before you can have a redemption arc blaming everything on daddy.

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The translations we got suggest he was sympathetic and helpful towards humans, but iirc it doesn't explicitly say he gave them dark magic. Strong likelihood though

Still doesnt explain why subsequent uses dont continue on the path of intensifying effect or even repeat the precious effect. It only happens sometimes.

>according to elves
So it didn't actually do anything wrong, then.

>We lost that moral highground for something tasty, user.
lol, yeah. Pretty much.

Ok, but what parts do you disagree with?

Solar doesnr cook birds, that's a myth. And wind kills birds the same way that buildings do, just by birds being dumbasses and flying into shit. The real cost of clean energy is the production of batteries, which currently is very carbon intensive. Still less intensive than coal, but its there.

The entire premise, which was pulled directly from your asshole. You made a claim and supported it with literally nothing. When asked a handful of questions about your claim, you answered none and just repeated your claim in different words. Do you know what the burden of proof is?

There's also the chance that very few magic users are stupid enough to try to do it Callum's way. But yeah, the Primal stone theory makes more sense.

He did say "How may I serve you?" when viren finally picked up the grub phone.

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No soul is involved in Dark Magic so far.

I'm not sure you're following me
>The dark magic does damage to him
It's not immediately apparent until a certain threshold, then he goes zombie
>He eats a butterfly, and through whatever magic all or at least enough of that damage is reversed
>Now he must continue doing dark magic for an unspecified amount of time to get back to the threshold of damage he was at when he first zombified

He would not be suffering increased intensity of harm to himself each time, because he's reversing the accumulated harm whenever he does his butterfly trick

Then why not set himself back to zero with a dozen butterflies instead of one? And why do only some spells effect him and not others? And why does it effect Callum on the first time? And why can Claudia go an entire lifetime and never get effects like Viren? And what about Aaravos still being unaffected without butterflies? And what about the first dark magic user in the intro who is in old age? Your theory just flat out doesnt hold up when you try to apply it across the board. It doesnt work. Or rather, it might be true despite not making any sense at all and is just another example of the shows shitty inconsistent writing.

>And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
But then like, he destroys all the old infrastructure and builds a new heaven. With blackjack and hookers. So presumably the lake of fire gets destroyed as well. So it's eternity, because it's literally existing up until the very end of the old world.

I feel like everyone bringing in their own assumptions as to how dark/black/blood/evil magic normally works complicates talk about how it actually works in this show

Not that user, faggot. Summarise.

Just like Asami

Animals have souls,

Admittedly it's also one of the worst-explained parts of the show. The writers have overall done a pretty good job of answering the questions they've been setting up, but dark magic is a definite weak spot. They really need to get around to filling in some of these holes around it. Seems possible they're waiting for a big reveal?

So I guess you dont know what the burden of proof is then, huh. I'm glad I asked.

Checkmate, animal atheists.

I'mma be honest with you user, I'm mildly curious about the argument you're having here but it's branched off and turned into such a back and forth of shittalking that I can't remotely parse what you're even arguing about any more.

A lot of times stuff can be cleared up just by clearly defining the points you disagree on and making sure everyone's using the same definitions for the terms involved.

>Then why not set himself back to zero with a dozen butterflies instead of one?
Because he has a limited supply of butterflies? These are supposed to be rare magical components and shit aren't they?

>And why do only some spells effect him and not others?
Accumulated harm. Every spell harms him a little, maybe some more than others because of how much magic it has to use or whatever bullshit, but he won't actually see noticeable effects until he gets to some predetermined threshold. Again with the arthritis example - by the time you actually start feeling it you've already been wearing away your joints for years. It didn't all happen at once.

>And why does it effect Callum on the first time?
I don't know. Maybe it's like needing to stretch before a hard workout. I'll admit that's a hole in my theory.

>And why can Claudia go an entire lifetime and never get effects like Viren?
Claudia isn't as old as her father. We don't know how long either have been using magic, but it's not unreasonalbe to say Viren has been using it longer given his age. And even considering that, as of season 2 we see it's beginning to show on her too with the gray streak.

>And what about Aaravos still being unaffected without butterflies?
We know from Viren that if he did use the butterfly trick to reset himself, he'd need several uses until it shows on him again. We've only seen Aaravos use one dark magic spell. There is no inconsistency in his case given what little we've seen.

>And what about the first dark magic user in the intro who is in old age?
Him we know absolutely nothing about so I can't say either way.

Okay then, keep your argument.

I literally already did this. He made a claim, I asked him to back it up, he didnt and just smugly repeated himself instead. It's really simple and if you're not him which I dont believe you have no reason to be invested in this. You argue the exact same way as him, insisting that I have to prove him wrong instead of proving himself right.

The argument ended hours ago with the dumbass refusing to back up his claims and me not responding to him anymore. You're the one who tried to dig it back up and make it a thing, dumbass.

>And even considering that, as of season 2 we see it's beginning to show on her too with the gray streak.
I think it might be a matter of how the user views the transaction involved. Claudia found the idea of taking the youth and vitality of another creature disturbing but knew it was the only way to save her brother and Viren's magic starts affecting him more heavily when he's using it to directly harm other humans.

>And why does it effect Callum on the first time?
>I don't know. Maybe it's like needing to stretch before a hard workout. I'll admit that's a hole in my theory.
I kind of think the thing that happened to Callum might be distinct from the whole "dark magic accumulation" thing that we see happening to Viren and now Claudia. Might even be something that happens to all dark magic users, just like "oh hey by the way you're gonna have a weird fever dream the first time, just roll with it and it'll be fine." Callum's life only really became in danger because he rejected dark magic and was struggling with the sky arcanum, after all. Also his face went back to normal on its own afterwards.

Also it's entirely possible that it's not the amount of dark magic but the specific power of the spell that causes the negative effects. If that's the case then the butterfly trick is even more effective; it only needs to be used whenever you do the intense stuff and you can do minor magic to your heart's content

Claudia seemed so gleeful about squeezing the magic out of magical creatures earlier on in the season, I kind of wonder if her conversation with Ezran about how he can talk to animals, how banthers feel about compliments, etc might have made her a tiny bit more sympathetic to her magic batteries. Or maybe just guilt about manipulating Ez into showing her where the deer were.

Its just because it was cute. It's like how most people dont want to see "how the sausage is made" but they all know its pigs and they all eat it even though pigs are cute.

>humans have just been tricked into picking the wrong choice in their magic fever dream initiations for centuries
That'd be a curious twist

Makes sense, I guess we've never really seen her using dark magic with a source other than a bug or a random body part, and it's hard to really feel empathy for an egg even if it's a very pretty egg.

Ok.

I'd take adult deer souls. Probably bigger and more potent.

Ohhh, wait a tic. What if humans have to kill something to even get in the door? Like, Callum was only able to interact with the arcanum in the first place because he used dark magic.

I mean, if you have no reason to believe there's another choice and you got there in the first place by practicing dark magic, odds seem high that when your mirror self asks if you want to embrace dark magic you'd be like "hell yeah."

And then in the odd rare case where someone has second thoughts and tries to back out of it, seems unlikely that they'd ALSO have been spending time talking to elves about primal magic, contemplating an arcanum etc, so they probably just have no way out and eventually stop breathing.

I am kind of wondering if humans have always been able to connect with arcana and it's just been erased from history Aaravos can do that or if they specifically need to dabble with dark magic to jumpstart the connection. I'm betting the former, but the latter could be interesting.

You gotta hit that sweet spot of prime maturity though or you'll end up with sub quality souls.

>I am kind of wondering if humans have always been able to connect with arcana and it's just been erased from history
That's really the only way any of this can be explained without turning Callum into a mary sue and completely breaking the world's established lore

He could have done it before his dream if he wasnt a dumbass and just remembered what his mom told him in the first place.

>or if they specifically need to dabble with dark magic to jumpstart the connection.
That's what I hope it is, that would legitimise dark magic as a necessary method for attaining understanding of the world.

>who was in the wrong here?
The animators.

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Well the former would imply humans are a natural part of the world and just forgot how to magic, while the latter implies they're somehow outsiders and need to piggyback on someone else's keycard just to get a chance to do it right. I think the former is a lot more likely but the latter does support that one user's theory that humans are aliens

Its legitimate on its own.

She was using residual magical energy in specimens of body parts and insects to perform dark magic before. She crossed a line when she needed a healthy young deer because she needed the health itself for the spell.

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Because they want to have a "humanity fuck yeah" boner

we need and edit of that deer holding a knife

>He could have done it before his dream if he wasnt a dumbass and just remembered what his mom told him in the first place.
Probably not? My theory is that dark magic is a necessary step in this process, the dream was just how he was making sense of his aftermarket connection to the sky magic.

I figured it was pretty obvious that Callum will be like "Hey everybody can do magic" by the end of the series and spread the word and that will be a real thorn in Viren and Aaravos' side

"You have to do and then reject dark magic to get the connection to kick in" would also not make Callum a super special chosen one, but I'm not sure if they could make that work thematically.

Also mary sue is a specific trope that's not really applicable here. Someone being special or even a "chosen one" doesn't inherently make them a sue, it's more about the narrative warping itself to ensure that a character is always in the right, never makes mistakes, and always has the most relevant skills for every situation, even when it makes no sense. Stories are usually going to be about characters that are interesting and special and good at things, because that's what people find interesting to read or watch.

Your theory is baseless. When will you people understand the difference between a theory and a headcanon?

>you just have to dip into warlock

>Your theory is baseless
I'm just following the exact process he uses in the show.

>leaving things

We have only one data point currently about "how humans can learn to do primal magic" and their theory fits with it, what makes it a headcanon?

>difference between a theory and a headcanon?
Hard to say, the show isn't over yet.

There is a possibility of a twist that Aaravos isn't actually evil, but rather selflessly appointed himself as a custodian of sorts to allow humans to explore their dark magic without taking it too far and was imprisoned for doing so when humans were exiled from Xadia. He readily abandoned Viren when he refused to hold back as they were arresting him.

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I do like the idea of Aaravos just being so alien and thinking in such a bigger picture than any of the characters that he gets set up as the villain for a while only for it to turn out that he means well, he's just operating on a timescale that's outside of everyone else's grasp. Could even wind up being an interesting take on the whole "do the ends justify the means" theming. Aaravos trying to stop the heat death of the universe at the cost of a measly couple billion souls or something.

>connection is drawn between two franchises
>first instinct is to post a poor attempt at humor via crossover

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Headcanons are things that you want to be true, but they either arent true or arent proven. A theory can be backed up by evidence. You only have one data point, you're making a wild assumption, and jumping to a conclusion, you have a headcanon. This shit isnt a theory and this isnt how you prove anything. It's not wrong to have headcanons, I said earlier ITT how I wanted Claudia and Callum to have parallels in their magic plotlines, but that's not a fucking theory. A theory is like when people talk about Aaravos giving humans dark magic based on the EVIDENCE that's in the arabic texts. Evidence is really key here. A headcanon is a shot in the dark answer to a question that technically could be true but has no support for it at all.

>We don't trade lives, Captain.
>Sacrifices Wakdandans to save Vision

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>but has no support for it at all
It has a little support

No, it doesn't. It just doesn't have anything proving it wrong yet. That's a headcanon. Theories have things proving them right, not just the absence of counter evidence.

I can already hear him making a speech about elven hypocrisy using the animals are food analogy.
>What is life but the process of determining where death needs to be?

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I wonder why people stop talking to you

Anime teaches us we should punch things and scream humanity fuck yeah when we're presented with such a choice

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I stopped talking to him. His post was the last word of the original argument. Nice try though.

Theories have supporting evidence, or at least align with observable data. If it has genuine proof then it's not a theory, it's fact.

Just like the theory of gravity, right? You call it a theory out of courtesy because you cant definitively prove that gravity always works across the entire universe in exactly the same way all the time without trillions of years of testing, but it has evidence and we've tested it enough to know it works. Importantly, it has evidence. The word you're thinking of is hypothesis.

Don't forget friendship

>Just like the theory of gravity, right?
No, dumbass. A scientific theory isn't the same thing as a hypothesis. Our terms are out of order to begin with because nobody says hypothesis in casual conversation.

the deer

>A scientific theory isn't the same thing as a hypothesis
Correct. I told you what YOU were thinking of was a hypothesis, not me. I'm still right about what a theory is. You tried to incorrectly define a theory to me, and you instead defined a hypothesis. That does not make them the same thing, that just makes you wrong. A hypothesis that has been tested beyond a reasonable doubt is a theory, and some theories just by the nature of the universe can never be tested to the point of becoming a law, but we still understand them as laws regardless. They doesnt make the theory a hypothesis.

user's theory does have evidence though. It's literally the only way we're shown a human learn to use primal magic

You're talking to at least two different anons

We're using theory colloquially, get over it.

The theory is that it happens to every human every time, which there is not evidence for. Claudia says to- actually fuck that, I'm not going to bother to counterpoint this, its not a fucking theory alright? A lack of evidence to the contrary is not evidence of support.

That bambi looking cunt was asking for it.

You're no fun.

Judging by the half dozen people insisting that there is evidence for it (while not stating any of that evidence) I would say no, you are not. You're trying to pass off a headcanon as a theory, and when you're called on it you're pretending you weren't.

You're really bad at talking to people user. It must be very frustrating.

You know what's fun? Headcanons. You know what you have?

If you think some retards on Yea Forums being wrong at me has any bearing on my mood at all you're mistaken.

>Elves are just dicks and always cheat at everything.
Everything that exists has a specific nature. Each entity exists as something in particular and has characteristics that are part of what it is. A is A, and no matter what reality they call home, elves are assholes.

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>oi m8, ifn ye wanna laearn proper moon magic ye gotta get real intimate with a user
>and the oonly wae tae do this is tae eat elf poossy

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Dude, we're speculating. What's your damage?

Said it twice but heres a third time for the extra retarded. Theres nothing wrong with headcanons/speculating, but passing it off as objective fact and pretending you have evidence is stupid and wrong.

Oh please, headcanons are always things that will never get addressed in universe. Like "harry potter is gay" or "I bet there's still a time turner out there." I'm willing to bet that just how Callum cheated the system will be addressed. So it's reasonable speculation to say that dark magic is a necessary step.

>but passing it off as objective fact
No one did. They called it a theory and you got pissy about the definition of theory despite everyone agreeing that they weren't treating it as fact

I can't wait to see Callum copy the pose when he connects with the Moon Arcanum.

This thread turned into an argument about arguing for some anons. Just slowly back away when you see people attacking semantics and word choice in a speculah thread.

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well mages are very skilled with their tongue, how else would they speak all those backwards spells

I wonder how long it'll be until we get a Four Elements Trainer for TDP.

Pretty sure it's just one genuinely autistic user

Chill out
This Let people have fun

>Theres nothing wrong with headcanons/speculating, but passing it off as objective fact and pretending you have evidence is stupid and wrong.
Saying "I have a theory about this cartoon" isn't a claim that needs supporting beyond superficial evidence. You're severely autistic.

It'd need at least one more waifu, then I'd give it maybe two years

why are they such a cute couple

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I rather have a rogue-like, I feel like you have less control in 4elements

I would have done the same

we have at leat 4, Rayla, Claudia, Amaya and wolf girl

Rogue-like is so shallow though, you don't actually do anything in it

because girl assassin and magic man are the best formation

She better act fast, I have a feeling other elves will find a legitimate human mage incredibly interesting. Especially one who helped return the dragon prince.

Wolfgirl isn't a wmajor aifu, she's a June equivalent at best. If loliqueen gets some spotlight she may qualify

Multiple people have, actually. Heres one as an example so dont tell me nobody tried to pass it off as truth and not just speculation. Dont cry like your oppressed because someone called you know your bullshit.

You dont even have superficial evidence. It's a total shot in the dark. It's a headcanon. But thank you for being a other person claiming that you've got some kind of evidence to support without saying any of the evidence so the other user here can look even more stupid for saying nobody is doing this.

Using animals to fuel spells is no worse than eating one for sustenance.

yeah doesnt really have a story, but you have more choice in how you interact with the characters

>say something stupid
>get called stupid
>wow I'm so sensitive and hurt please coddle me and support my every fart of a thought that I post impulsively
Fuck you, you need to go back.

>when Yea Forumsmblr powertrip and starts to say garbage about things it never understood in its life
pathetic.

>You dont even have superficial evidence
I have two examples of mages that can connect to magic they shouldn't be able to connect to. Both of these mages have used dark magic. That counts as superficial evidence.

You seem to severely misinterpret people's intentions in their posts. That's not trying to pass anything off as truth, that's citing the superficial evidence for a theory, wait sorry HYPOTHESIS, that has yet to be proven

You're a faggot, and you need to kys yourself.

wat

>kys yourself
Oh man, I'm getting flashbacks to the rip in peace in peace meme

maybe a Somenting Unlimited like game with us playing as Aaravos

It's not citing any evidence idiot, it's just claiming he has evidence. How are you people this dense?

You have ONE mage, you dont know the order Aaravos learned it in. And even for that one mage, the understanding came from a memory and not from dark magic. That's not a theory and is hardly a hypothesis. It's a headcanon, you smug cunt.

I mean, braindead get their organs harvested to save others...

Something Unlimited makes me feel...dirty though.

If Claudia didn't get to Bambi then Frank would have.

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He is claiming he has superficial evidence, you disagree
So, only for you is baseless

I'm hoping the officially licensed game will be satisfying to play. The Korra game by Platinum's B Team had combat that was fun but cycling through the elements was handled poorly. I remember it being tied to the L1 Button when it should've been tied to the D-Pad.. Considering how we're supposed to play as different characters including Viren, I'm interested in how it will be handled.

If it was an animal that mattered I might feel bad but I don't. I mean it's a deer there good for food but otherwise, they're dicks. This animal is known for over grazing and starving there children.

No, I dont "disagree", I dismantled his evidence. This is why it isnt a theory you retards, it's not supported by anything. Are you the same guy who said that someone who just said they had evidence without stating that evidence was "citing evidence"? You have the same logic pattern. Fucks sake you people are so fucking stupid, its shocking.

That's not really how evidence works.

>the understanding came from a memory
No it didn't, the show literally spells it out. It was a series of revelations that stacked until it clicked. The memory was simply the last in a series of important milestones.

Deer are basically vermin that are delicious

>I dismantled his evidence
Fucking when?

She was. She is a woman.

They even run into you, not hunting them is basically impossible. Might as well get some sausages out of it.

I'm told death by car ruins a lot of the meat

cant argue with that

>hey kid, it's your dream
Yeah it does spell it out, and it says it's all in Callums head. The only revelation that mattered was his mom telling him he had to I understand it with all of him, the rest was just a setup for him to explain it in a silly way Rayla wouldn't get. It's not the first time this show has used that gag. After the gag, he just repeats what his mom said quietly to himself, because that's the only part that mattered.

You still have no evidence to support your claim, just the claim. Even without this counterpoint I just gave you, your entire post is just reasserting your claim and completely lacks supporting evidence. This is why it's not a theory.

th best way to kill a deer is with a suplex

You cannot be this stupid. Ok, I'll start you off, he said there were two mages as examples, and I explained exactly why he did not have two mages. It's so simple I dont understand how you dont get it, do you have a GED or something?

humans don't have souls either

elf butt

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>a robot with an Infinity Stone in his forehead that can fly, shoot lasers, and phase through walls
>a bunch of African warriors with shields and spears

Tough choice there.

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I feel like dragons are mind-controlling the elves or something like that, think about it, we know Moonshadow assassins were sent by dragon queen, her and dragon king are the only two royalties and rulers we know of in Xadia, and Rayla feeling wrong with her whole being about abandoning the dragon to his, deserved, death, I bet the wheel thing wasn't the reason, it was dragon mind control magic

Unrelated, but why does everyone keep pretending Rayla has any ass at all?

>we dont trade lifes, but if they happen to die heping us, thats on them

To be fair, those were laser spears...but yeah, it was a worthy, if in the end of the day worthless, sacrifice

but muh wakanda

Two questions; what is this show and where is porn of this girl?

there was a scrennshot of Rayla fon the ground having a nice ass, Ithink it was from her fight with Soren

>because that's the only part that mattered
You've got no evidence for that. I think his rejection of dark magic was the catalyst. Something he couldn't do until he had used it once.

The value of Sorens life, to her and objectively, is higher than a newborn fawn. The only thing holding you back is your literally human only morals.

Ome shot across two seasons. People post screencaps of the flatest ass on the planet most threads and drool over it like it's that fanart.

I see what you're trying to do here, but I literally already gave some evidence. Being smug and trying to talk like me doesnt make you right.

I like flat Rayla, butt I dont mind drawing of her with more ass. Even Callum drew her with more ass and tits

>The only revelation that mattered was his mom telling him he had to I understand it with all of him
Doesn't he say something along the lines of "all the idea were there floating around in my head, I just needed to put them together"? that doesn't imply the rest of it was insignificant

wat

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a fantasy story about a elf girl trying to get laid with a human boy, and something about magic and preventing a war. and there is always paheal

>I see what you're trying to do here
Have an argument that lets us open discussion about the show instead of quibbling about epistemology?

>but I literally already gave some evidence.
So did the other user...

I could argue this, but to get back to the main point here, even if you were right and all the ideas were in his head and just needed to be thought over, that's still evidence against dark magic being necessary to unlock primal magic because it just goes to show he figured it out himself.

maybe when Rayla get older she will get more curves

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The deer for walking up to what is probably a major predator in the setting

You must be a woman and/or some sort of brown person, in which you would be correct. You don't have a soul.

No, ignore my detailed counter evidence for two posts in a row while being passive aggressive for those two posts thinking that makes you right. You think I dont see that shit right away? I've been here for nine years, I know your brand of bullshit by now.

I was thinking about it and I dont think I've ever seen anyone eat meat on screen. They might actually be a vegan society, which would explain why they think dark magic is bad. It does raise the question of what did that tracker guy train to be a tracker for if not to hunt, though.

Sounding kinda "what did you say to me you little shit?!" there

>because it just goes to show he figured it out himself.
But what triggered that journey? Would he be able to slip into that dream-state on his own?

Being here nine years doesn't make you less stupid.

Three posts of smugly avoiding responding to the counterpoints now, hope that snappy one liner was worth it. If you make it four I'll just not reply and take that as you admitting you dont have anything to say.

I'm the one being passive aggressive?

dark magic overload I guess

You still believe you're talking to a single user?

Two sissies.

Around elves, watch yourselves.

she could have stolen the soul of an Ant, a rat or a plant. Why did she have to mess around with an innocent deer!?

Who says he needed the dream state? He just needed to think about it more. Maybe thinking about something else for a little while gave him a clear head, maybe he just needed more time, maybe he needed less pressure. Theres no evidence saying the dark magic did it for him. Its HIS dream, as the show blatantly says. Hes not tapping into some kind of ether of knowledge.

They use glow toads as fish bait, though. They at least fish, and sacrifice other animals in order to catch fish.

Oh, and we had that guy in season one describing his breakfast of sausage and eggs. The sausage is presumably meat, and there’s multiple instances of people talking about eating eggs. Claudia uses eggs in her pancakes too.

Although I’m now very interested to learn how someone would go about making a vegan jelly tart from scratch using only medieval tech and ingredients. Sounds challenging.

Considering the Elves’ horns it seems that they’re kin to the dragons, so likely more of a kobold serving dragon masters sort of deal. Heck, given Rayla’s behavior with that one captured dick their servitude might be genetical instead of just cultural.

ctrl+f smug
maybe is just one guy

Its just sweet bread and jam, its vegan as is. I dont even know what I would do to make it not vegan. The eggs are a fair point, and they also eat grubs as I'm remembering now. I guess people hating dark magic is as stupid and nonsensical as I originally thought it was.

If they did then it better include a romance option and choose your waifu

People hate dark magic for the same reason they hate vaccinations: they don't understand it and want to blame their problems on something

Exactly, we must kill the dragons and free the elves from their...draconian rule!!! so we can kill them later

Wouldn’t a jelly tart need to have butter in it?

I knew a guy with a white patch on the back of his head. He also had a meme phone in 5th grade that had a glowing track ball when everyone else was getting iPhonessome I’d the first. I guess that’s the price of dark magic

Couldnt have said it better myself.

I dont think so, but I'm not really a baker. They seem more like rolls than cakes, just with a jelly center.

Wait, if the Elves are kobolds...
Ascended Dragon Rayla when?

>5th grade
>iphones

>Hes not tapping into some kind of ether of knowledge.
My headcanon (yes, we are in that territory now) is that dark magic kind of damages whatever part of you is used while channelling spells, so it makes you more sensitive to magical energy for a little while. Since Callum refused to accept the standard human option (dark magic, which uses physical energy from the caster to repair their mind or soul or whatever) he was kind of in limbo until he was able to figure out how to connect to the sky arcanum.

After a weeks long elven orgy, if the DnD lore holds up.

>they also eat grubs as I'm remembering now

Lu Jane even shaped some of the grubs into a roast turkey, so that’s at least a concept.

Although, I do kinda wonder about that whole illusion feast that was spread out. I don’t think the writers and animators were perfectly in sync with it, considering Wolf Girl says verbally she’s eating a pie, but visually there’s a slice of cake in front of her instead.

The animation is just bad in this season. The moon bitch pulls two separate plates of worms out of her ass and offers them to Callum, and I know they were separate because the chucks the first one away and you hear it land, and she confirms Callum is right when he says they're worms and not just empty illusions. The fuck did those two worm platters come from?

They’re illusions. For all we know, each one could’ve been made from just a single worm, and the rest was empty air. Or maybe she was carrying an invisible sack to keep them in. You never know with illusionists.

>The fuck did those two worm platters come from?
>her ass
You answered your own question.

The jelly in the middle could easily be vegan, but a lot of pastries use some kind of dairy or eggs. And if you’re a hardcore vegan, then yeast might be in a funny category. And then honey can throw you a curveball, too, if that comes up.

If elves really thought dark magic was evil a d a perversion of nature, why did they give humans a safe haven to perform it in? Why not exterminate it? They just gave humans half a continent to develop and practice dark magic in, with no incentive to stop.

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Probably the same reason they locked Aaravos in the mirror, dark magic is strong as fuck and they're scared of it. That "dark magic is evil" excuse is just a cover for their deed and a deterrent from other elves learning it. One dark mage stood up against all of elves and dragons combined, they probably sent humans away out of fear and not out of disgust.

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Oh shit, I know that pose

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Ass.
No ass.

I'm pretty sure this was an Easter egg of early concept art and Netflix had them sticc her up when they were designing the 3D models.

She was clearly never exactly thicc due to the creators following the "svelte, slender elf" trope, but she's definitely curvier in Callum's picture than her 3D model is.

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soul swapping snake did involve souls.

granted, no consuming souls or anything.

Rayla looks curvier because Callum is a horny teenage boy

Sketching girls with more tits and ass than they actually have is a good way to get your shit slapped if they ever see it.

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>mfw they made Rayla's model skinnier just so they could have this one scene where Callum draws her curvier to show he's hot for her
cute

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good pint my dude
hunting rules are so much more important then saving your brother from being a cripple for the rest of his life.

Sort of. You see what was going to happen was the kangz soul would have been transferred to the bird and the kangz body would have just been empty husk for slaughter. But the process failed because animals don't have souls and the process just ends up killing one or the other animals.

when does she do this face?

It was a highly coordinated situation that meant to spark conversations about animal rights. It was morally questionable but arguably justified because there's magic in the setting and she wasn't simply slaying an animal, she was doing something portrayed in the series as sinister that permanently altered her appearance as a reminder of how far she's willing to go for a loved one.

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when she watches Callum fap

>And again, it's not a short or easy path to learn dark magic either, they just thought it was the only possibility.
Because it was the easiest.

Oh, you're no fun

I think since it was a divination type spell that he used star magic as the base for his ritual, and that it uniquely required a degree of dark magic to bind the two individuals together. I think dark magic may have even evolved out of star magic as a way to channel or connect other beings to a magic source. That would also explain Aaravos figuring out how to channel other sources beyond his own.

And you need to pull the stick out of your ass

>interested in dark magic because of its ability to unite that which was not meant to be united
Does he ever stop getting better the more you think about him?

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I liked him as soon as I realised he shared a voice with Koh the face stealer.

Thinking about it, it does use a rune. We've never seen dark magic that needs a rune to work.

Because as far as anyone knew, dark magic was the ONLY magic humans could EVER do. It wasn't because it was easy, and considering the consequences Viren and Claudia went through, it's never easy.

It might be that elves exiled humans for practicing dark magic because it's the only form of magic they can't use themselves and Aavaros required Viren's participation in the ritual to provide the dark magic part of the equation.

That might also explain why Aavaros abandoned Viren when he went full sicko mode, he was frightened.

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Some of the energy of the sacrifice remains for a while if it isn't all used up on the spell IIRC

Honest answer, after getting fired at it should have ran away. It was clearly looking for a fight though and instead attacked them. The Dragon King clearly wanted to kill people who crossed the border instead of just scaring them away as it attacked them as they were trying to get to the border.

He didn´t abandon him, he told to chill out because despite all his power he wasn´t invulnerable and a stray arrow could take him out, and aavaros didn´t want to lose his only way out in what are probably centuries that quickly.

>That might also explain why Aavaros abandoned Viren when he went full sicko mode, he was frightened.
I'm willing to bet Aaravos is planning to use Viren to escape his mirror prison somehow, and he told Viren to give up because he was useless to the elf as a corpse.

The writer who stole it from buffy the vampire slayer

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No one. Deers didn't know any better and humans killing animals for survival is basically how we've... Well, SURVIVED this long as a species. There's no "right" or "wrong" specifically in play in this situation, it's just survival of the fittest.

Elves probably worship dragons like gods

Look at that saucy doe. Bitch was asking for it.

It's just a dumb animal.

dark magic being "easy" is just elvish propaganda

I mean they are literally born with knowing how to do magic, it ain't getting easier than that

There’s nothing wrong with dark magic.

>hating on those who dare to challenge dragons

Away with thee, cur!

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I would strangle every single dear on the face of the earth to death with my bare hands if it meant i could cure my brother from being paralyzed. anyone who wouldn't do the same for their loved ones don't know what its like.

also what the fuck do you mean sinister? what's established is that creatures besides humans have a innate connection to the elemental powers and that connection is what is being used up. like a spiritual organ that it doesn't need because its dead. the spiritual connection is never implied to be a soul. or what do humans not have souls, can you acquire a soul like callum? you se how that doesn't make sense right.

by the information presented claudia did nothing wrong no matter the black eyes, silver hair streaks or foreboding music.

>Killing the mother
>So the children can die naturally without a protector
How kind.

The show would be more interesting if Dark Magic was the equivalent of Nuclear Power.
Uncountable benefits, uncountable cost.

I don't think it's literal mind control, but that she was indoctrinated from birth to see dragons as superior and revered creatures. She sounded like a fucking idiot in that scene: "we must stop the cycle of violence! And I'll stop it by rescuing my fellow compatriot who trespassed into enemy territory and set fire to a town full of civilians!". Rayla, that's normal war. That's what Katolis and Xadia have been doing to each other for the past thousand years.

The doctors who watched a patient with an incurable spinal cord injury get zapped with magic, stand up, and walk out of the clinic, and instead of marvelling at the obvious advance of medicine they fled in terror because dark eyes look soooo scary.
No wonder elves have been kicking their asses for centuries, these people have no curiosity or initiative whatsoever.

if a goth girl, same girl who freaked out maybe an hour ago, walked into your workplace with glowing eyes and shooting what you can only assuming is lightining from her hands you would run too
>holly shit, is emo Carrie. run!

>by the information presented claudia did nothing wrong no matter the black eyes, silver hair streaks or foreboding music.
You're right, Anonymous, what was I thinking. Autistic overanalysis always wins against how the creators actually chose to portray the situation.

You also don't kill does with fawns. Very small brained.

>Dragon and Elf Rulers probogate the idea that humans can't use primal magic to keep them in their place
>Humans invent Dark Magic and presume there's no alternate solution
>Dragons and Elves go "Oh Shit!", kick them out and imprison the one elf who could tell anyone about it
They bought it on themselves

How old is she now? Have they ever given a firm age? I haven't watched the first season since it aired so I'm probably just forgetting.

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Deer are giant rats with hooves.

what that 5/6 on Callums age mean?

Help me fill this up, Yea Forumsmrades. Suggest text or ammend what's already there, plus some short greentexts for the bottom panels. I may change the flagwaver to carry Viren's staff.

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>Soren is legal
where is my po-

Callum's exact age is fourteen and five-sixths, as stated in an episode.

He'll turn 15 in a few weeks. It's a nod to a joke in the first episode.

Listen, I respect the initiative and drive to create something, but I can't go back to 2009, I just can't do it.

but if you must, add something about dark magic being the same as eating meat

Nice, she has time to fill out then.

She's an elf. There's only flatness in her future.

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That's more than she has now at least. Besides, if Callum can connect with a primal arcana maybe Rayla will be the first elf to connect to the thicc arcana.

rest in peace hor elf babe.
unless they somehow sill alive inside Viren coins

Chinrub guy should be saying something about Claudia killing the baby deer really makes him think about bioethics and the moral questionability of stealing an animal's soul to restore her brother's health, especially given his culpability for blame throughout the unfolding events.

Angry double chin should be yelling IT IS AN ANIMAL. ANIMALS DO NOT HAVE SOULS.

you have to keep up with the latest in elf memes

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>unless they somehow sill alive inside Viren coins
user, I...

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Huh, I had been assuming that Claudia and Soren were fraternal twins.

The dopey big brother and clever little sister who both have each other's back is still a super cute dynamic.

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I liked it more than season 1, but the tonal whiplash gets grating at times.

>Stealing the soul of another living creature to free your brother of the consequences of failing to murder a dragon isn't a justified action

Yes it is. You know why? BECAUSE IT'S A FUCKING DEER. Deer are garbage animals, barely even worth eating. You're only asspained because it's cute. You wouldn't give half a fat shit if she were stealing the soul of a bucket full of cockroaches or sea urchins.

noooooooooooooooooo, eh, Im over it. at least we still have Rayla, and there are many elfs to come

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I doesn't take brain cells in the double digits to pick up on the problem this show constantly has with delivering its message of dark magic being supposedly bad. all the stated and demonstrated facts of its function and consequence informs the audience that it can perform miracles at minimal costs and despite this the show insists on having every supposed enlightened character condemn the practice without explaining or showing us how or why its so bad.
show and tell both portray dark magic as being ok, when the show then proceeds to assume that we think the opposite its confusing. its bad storytelling. like they had a message but no idea how to portray it

Is there any chance that she'll end up with the main character or is it just bait?

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I wonder what he's saving Runaan for.

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if he is alive, I want to know if he still lost his arm

I'm kind of betting there's some weird time dilation situation happening, because I doubt Viren has to feed his pennies or anything.

10 months

It's not bait, it's a love triangle. Callum feels betrayed by Claudia's recent actions and has been growing closer to Rayla.

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Fuck, where did this meme come from? Every argument has some fuckwit autist assumes that stealing the magic is tantamount to stealing the soul.

No where in the show, the wiki, or stated by the creators is it said that Magic = Soul.

And then you have anons who point out the obvious like and Which usually has the autist argue that using Dark Magic is corrupting the user. However the only signs we have of this is changing skin pigmentation, eye coloration, hair coloration, and maybe being exhausted just slightly for pulling a fucking Christianic Jesus Miracle out of your ass. Nothing about shortened lifespans, or decaying bodies, or removing your own soul. It's fucking baffling really. And they always conveniently forget the fact that Xadians (creatures and elves) are fucking assholes. If we were mucking about near a dragon nest doing nothing, no one would bitch if the dragon attacked us.
>It's what they dooo it's territoriaaal, user
Fuck you. We're territorial fuckers too. A fire breathing, built-like-a-tank, flying lizard with a history of massacring humans is sticking around my easily-burnable-human village filled with families, women, children, and eldery? That dragon's fucking dead.

There's only been ONE user that argued against Dark Magic that made a good point. If Dark Magic's usage was the equivalent of pollution. By taking the magic and using it like that, it'd possibly corrupt it as it returned to the environment. THAT'D be a neat little concern. But that's just headcanon still so all arguments against Dark Magic, until the show clears it up further, is literal Autistic Screeching.

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Love triangles have a history of fucking up any and every good media, however.

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I wanna know how much taller is Aaravos is

I'd kill a dozen deer to un-paralyze my brother.

>A manga about THICC fantasy/monster girls
>The dark elf chocolate beauty's THICCness is in her ass

Good god, these are truly remarkable times.

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It's not a goddamn contest to see who would kill more baby deer to unparalyze their brother.

That's what losers say.

Release the deers!

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Hear, Hear, user. Hear, hear.

>TL;DR: It's just the magic version of fossil fuels vs renewable energy
Or ranching vs. agriculture.

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it can work if they settle it quickly, Kim Possible kinda did. but th same this destroyed star vs the forces of evil. But what I think gonna happen here is Callum will tap the elf and that togheter with wathever musfotune falls upon Soren and Viren broght upon himself will push Claudia over the edge

Those are both pretty terrible resource wise though

I really don't think Claudia cares about Callum to that extent

enpugh to throw off her judment, butt only after evrythin else is fucked up. line like last line of hope not thicker than a spiders thread. is just how I think a love triangle could work in this show

It seems to be a situation where a girl was fine letting a boy crush on her hard without doing anything to develop a serious relationship, but gets jealous when she notices the crush being threatened by another girl.

It's a bad look for women that a lot of people find hard to sit through, but it also makes perfect sense in the course of Claudia picking up her father's mantle as hater of elves after Callum chooses Rayla.

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Damn, he's tall.
Somehow, the idea of Aaravos having a birthday feels wrong. I kinda expected him to have crawled out of a black hole fully formed, skimpy outfit and all.

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She never got jealous though, she was just curious

Yeah, I generally agree.

I think Claudia likes Callum, but mostly in a "close friend and near-brother" sort of way. The type of setup that could develop into a relationship with the right push, but is mostly one-sided right now.

What I want to know is how Aanya can exist if she has two mothers

He clearly used dark magic to wring the birthday essence out of a mortal creature.

The light skinned mother had a penis. Alternatively, Viren provided the genetic material.

adoption? daught from a previous engagement? on of the mom got bi-curious and cheated? shit writting for the sake of inclusivite?
could be any of this

>be Aavaros
>see child about to eat a delicious birthday cake
>steal birthday essence
>shove corpse out of chair and sit down
>"Happy birthday to me..."
>Aavaros, Taker of Birthdays

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context?

>And. Many. Many. More.

dark magic

That's my headcanon.

Here I thought it was sapience.

Not anymore

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So would it be wrong to for a human to breed an elf princess?

All for the greater good.

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Smart bois

No, but an elf and a human step-prince would be wrong.

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The mother for letting them walk off like that. Baby deer usually lie and wait in tall grass or follow their mother when they're strong enough to walk.
The deer for not being cautious and running at the first sight of them. Cautious deer tend to live longer than curious ones.
Damn thing wasn't going to survive out in the wild anyways with the mindset it had.

Corvids like cephalopods, cetaceans, apes and grey parrots may actually be sapient.

Cervids like deer though are dumb as fuck

So if the show does go the Callum/Rayla route what are the odds that it happens early enough for interspecies relation controversy to become a plot point?

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as soon as it happens Claudia will jump in to protect Callums virginity from the elf devil. jokes aside, it will depent on who they come across, is not like the new fly in this world

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Very. Gotta meet the folks though.

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He already met Runaan

he wasnt tongue fighting the elf at the time

Rayla claimed she was an orphan, granted the way she said it implied she might have been lying.
>is not like the new fly in this world
What does that mean?

I meant to say newa, the only people who would know they were togheter are the people they meet along the away.

She was. She said she was ashamed of her parents

I just realized, Thunder's death was something like 4 months before the show starts, right? (The show so far takes place in mid-late May and Thunder was killed "on the eve of last winter's turn") So Rayla's parents running away during the attack and being branded cowards etc is still super recent, that's kind of a fresher wound for her than I'd realized.

we need an Aaravos salt bae

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Alright so a human boy and a elf girl can be good!
Personally I'm still looking forward to Callum meeting Rayla's ma and pa.

Yeah it took me a while to realize that too. Damn I want their reunion. And how awkward for Callum to be there.

I would subscribe to Aaravos' cooking channel.

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>I meant to say newa,
Either you're really bad at speaking english or I am.
>She was. She said she was ashamed of her parents
I wonder if we will find out why they went AWOL? Maybe they're human sympathizers?

*news, and no I just realy fucking suck at typing. I got into the habit of typing with my midle fingers and never got out of it

Man did this season felt slow as fuck. But weirdly enough, Claudia's fuckability went way up for me.

I have very little problem with dark magic unless it's being used for something blatantly stupid.

It apparently has troubling physical effects if you overdose on it, but the idea that it's inherently evil and shouldn't be used to save tens of thousands of lives because it's a shortcut or because an animal has to die for it feels pretty silly.

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tuxedo mask Callum when?

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Well I'd kill at least three dozen. More if I was closer to my brother.

When you commission the artists.

there is a absolute lack of lewds, come one lads, here is some:

i.imgur.com/C4TwQuF.png
discord.gg/S7Ecxtb

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I'm actually still pretty disappointed that we aren't getting more dark magic Callum.

The whole idea of being forced to accept his cemented limitations and weighing his morality and the cost of life against his desire to help people and be a mage is more interesting to me than him just easily proving that humans can use nature magic to if they meditate on it for a few days.

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I get where you're coming from. I'm hoping that even after he learns all the variations of primal magic the need for even more power to help the world/his friends will still drive him forward into contemplating dark magic.

So what you're saying is that you want Viren to be the MC?

>I got into the habit of typing with my midle fingers
Why the hell would anyone ever do that?

because Im a idiot who started typing like that as a kid and and just got used to it because I cant break habits

>introduce an awesome, heavy concept
>avert it 5 minutes later

dragon prince keeps doing it

Not that user, but I'd gladly watch The Adventures of Viren.