Is there literally any way to write a minority characters without pissing off Yea Forums?

>women
>minority
Lol.
First of all Alien doesn't shill Ripley as the main woman character at the start.
Second, the sequel where she starts kicking ass she's already established in the previous movie and goes through a power arc in the movie from victim to hero.

If anything the complaint should be for Terminator 2 since Sarah Connor's transition from victim to powerwoman happened off-screen.
But the real, ultimate reason is casting. You get pic related to play Captain Marvel, Yea Forums would love it as would Yea Forums.

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Yea Forums is many many retarded things. But they see through the lies of marketing as well as anyone else.

Oh yeah, some of you might not know who that is.
Amanda Tapping from Stargate SG1. Her reproductive organs are on the inside.

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>Also women aren't minorities you retarded Disney shill
This, avoid going in to it with a victim narrative and just concentrate on writing entertaining fiction it's how Alien succeeded.

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>what did Alien do right?
Ripley is a pretty gruff, rednecky space trucker who has some very good scenes with the crew just socialising.
The characters have established traits that functionally all drive the plot and depict a bunch of very much not ready humans around the brave but ultimately vulnerable and frightened Ripley, as they get massacred by an alien murder machine made of eerily sexualised nightmares.
Oh, and Ripley is a woman.

The new SW and CM all start their thought process with how to push this woman character on the audience and pander with cheap references. And the TLJ was obsessed with subverting expectations for the sake of subversion rather than saying anything or going anywhere, which is terrible if you are the second part of a trilogy.

>Is there literally any way to write a minority characters without pissing off Yea Forums

No. You can't. Even spiderverse had people complaining about black people. You can't please these guys unless you only write about sexy women.

One of the strength of Ripley and Sarah Connor for that matter is that they're strong in a very female (specifically maternal) way, but aren't in your face (or their male co-stars' face) about how awesome what they're doing is because they're a woman.
Basically don't replace good writing with meta-pats on your back.

You'll definitely have people bitching regardless because you're on the internet.

TLJ would always subvert expectations if it wasn't just a shot for shot remake of The Empire Strikes Back since TFA was so close to A New Hope.

>Even spiderverse had people complaining about black people
Because it's a black person taking on the mantle of a white character. That's how it works, give them a new character and no one cares.

>What did Alien did "right"
Get made before the vast majority of /tvcopol/ was born.

Don't make them a Mary Sue?

>I'm legitimately asking, as I have a gay character (he's the 2nd male character and the only minority character) and honestly seeing how the majority here dislikes those two things, plus shows like She-Ra, SU, Black Panter, Spider-Verse, Adventure Time ect. ect.
there is a simple way of seeing how a character is well written.
Take your gay character for example. Is it important that he's gay? Does this improve or bring his character foreward in any way? Why is he gay? Just so you can tell you have a gay character? See if you write a story stick to fundamentals. Show and tell only whats important to the story.
He's gay so what? How does it show. Does he go around screaming it every ten seconds? Does he have a boyfriend who's constantly telling anyone that he's the love interest of your main character? And if so...why?
If you want a romance without anyone feeling offended about it. Build it up make it believable don't just tell:
>"Oh and he's gay btw"
thats just dumb.
Straight character have it easier. Because the majority of people is straight. It's just normal in a statistical sense. So for you you have to tell the story so it becomes natural to the reader/viewer

>as I have a gay character
why?

>pissing off Yea Forums
no
>pissing off general public
yeah don't write a 'minority' character. so you wrote a whole story about power lady from space. now imagine the whole story if it wasn't a lady. what if it was a man. what if they were another ethnicity? would it change? then you fucked up and created a double standard.

But no. 'Writers' want superstrong white lesbian womens who can make nasty white mans little penis shrivel off also blacks have huge penises and get all the ladies and maybe even the lesbians cause their dicks are chocolate fountains that would make Willy Wonka envious.

>What did Alien did "right" and nu-Star Wars and Capital Marvel is doing wrong?
Getting released before the alt-right was a thing.

Let me give you legit advice
If you were to write a straight white male character you'd want them to go through pain, suffering and humiliation. Superheroes are weak and pathetic before they become symbols of justice. Your gay/black/female characters have to be lonely, pathetic and generally disliked to truly become heroes one day. If Peter Parker was the dude that was always liked and successfull he wouldn't even change from becoming a superheroes. The real irredeemable bottom of the barrel losers are the ones people want to be forced to sympathise with. Personally I'd make this character a hateful bigot that overcomes their hatred when faced with opportunity to do good. That overcoming of flaws is what makes a character likable. Also make sure that life kicks your character into the dirt.

based advice posters

But then it did everything just to subvert every expectations you may have, down to foundational rules of screenwriting.
It contains pointless diversions, repeatedly denies payoff and confuses any possible message with contradictory information.
Not that characters failing is bad, but if everyone just keeps getting fucked up for two hours and every ambition is frustrated, the audience cannot but also be frustrated.
It ends up a directionless mess of bafflingly incompetent characters and laughable villains.

Peter wasn't really a loser before they decided on the whole "Parker luck" thing. Sure he wasn't the most popular kid for a handful of issues (but still had 3 girls fight over his dick) and he was kind of a dick to some people, but his only real failure of note before he's a hero is the Ben thing.

He was a smartass unlikable nigger that could easily prevented his uncle from dying but was too much of a bitch. Thats low.

I don’t think you need to justify them being gay.
Gay relationship dynamics are different from straight couples and the imagery is also not the same.
You'd want to know about the differences for writing them, obviously.
It is inherently a different thing, if you include it.
You are correct to say that you haven't earned doing anything with your character's sexuality if you only state it to no effect.
But applied correctly, a gay character changes the perspective on things within the story almost by default. And if you have a relationship, you should elicit some change of audience perception and expectations.
It's important to consider these things when writing, but you make it sound like there's a bar of entry: "You must be this relevantly gay to ride."

>
Unironically caring what Yea Forums thinks

This board is more fickle than a pampered house cat and the overwhelming majority of users dont have good taste. Just write a good story and don't be a coward.

fpbp

I wish I was the type of unlikable who gets invited to all the parties and gets all the bitches. This whole "Peter was a nerd just like me!" thing is overstated these days.

From what I see, I don't like the stance they seem to take that they're correcting some great deficit of women characters, when I've never been at a lack of women characters in what I read. That unearned chip on the shoulder attitude bothers me

Well this is what is considered borderline outcast in a comic book happy version of the world where society can accept even the biggest loser.

Nothing was done 'wrong' with new star wars or captain marvel. It's just a bunch of whiny people who swear the need to have a loud and obnoxious voice on the interenet. Alien (ripley) wasn't around in such an age where if you scream the loudest you get clicks and hits and retweets. People love to shout and get angry cause others shout and get angry. The see how many likes and views those people get and join in the fun. Literally all of this crap about "SJW", Mary Sue's is just a meme.

Your face is just a meme, retard.

You're a meme tranny boy

>Nothing was done 'wrong' with new star wars or captain marvel

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>:/
Fuck off with that

>What did Alien did "right" and nu-Star Wars and Capital Marvel is doing wrong?
It's something very basic, and in fact, something inherently important regardless of character or medium.

In a case like Alien or Terminator (1) or Blade or any number of works involving "marginalized" people that have good characters, these traits, these labels
>female
>gay
>black
>literally anything else
Are not the major things that define or inform the character. Blade being Black is almost more of a flavor thing, and helps inform the setting, but as a character, Blade is far more than just "black half-vampire". With Ripley in Alien, the fact that she's a woman doesn't matter outside of the themes of motherhood and her somewhat parallel with the Queen Alien ("Get away from her, you bitch") etc. These characters are characters outside of the traits and labels given them.

On the otherhand, whether in-story or in the meta (advertisements, news stories, word of mouth, creator comments, etc.) something like WW or Captain Marvel or SW play up these angles at the cost of actual characterization, personality, and development. These characters are flat and boring, and are only uplifted because of what they represent ("the first female superhero movie!", "the first black stormtrooper!", "muh diveristy!") and not because of who the character actually is.

Tl;dr
It's the difference between actual, fully realized characters who happen to have X label, and flat, underdeveloped characters who instead are representations of (and thus, only about being) X label.

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I'm pretty sure it's just make us laugh...I MEAN New Super-man and Gwenpool got good reviews on here.

Heck even Spiderverse's Peni Parker got love here, er for a different reason....

Because I'm gay myself lol

Yeah again, he's portrayed as a teen genius too, he's a far cry from being "the biggest loser".

>Fuck off with that
:/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/ :/

>White woman
>Minority
ENOUGH

Right:
Teen Titans Cyborg (Black, Disabled)
Toph from AltA (Disabled)
Static Shock (Black, Gay)
Xmen (Everything)
Blade (Black)
Samurai Jack (Asian, Disabled Scottish (So double disabled, am I right))

It's very easy to do 'minority characters' right user.
You take someone that happens to be a minority.
And then you write a story about them.

You don't start with 'Right this needs to happen to a black/woman/disabled who must then succeed through Negro magic/womyn powers/the strength found in a heart locked in a wheelchair', you make it character first, then all the other shit comes second.
People are interested in people, not propaganda.

She is Rey 2.0. They manufacture some character and scream at the audience that "SHE'S THE NEW FACE OF THE MCU/STARWARS/DOCTORWHO etc...!!!" and are already setting up the narrative (ala Ghostbusters 2016) that if you don't pay to see this movie you're a "FUCKING WHITE MALE SEXIST INCEL MANBABY BLAH-BLAH-BLAH!!!". Of course Marvel wants you to forget that the first female Captain Marvel was a black woman named Monica Rambeau, which makes the MCU rendition of the character a subtle case of white-washing.

>Second, the sequel where she starts kicking ass she's already established in the previous movie and goes through a power arc in the movie from victim to hero.
Pretty much this. I mean fuck the sequel is entirely focused on the theme of motherhood and that only works because she is wammen (hear her roar)
But by this point we know and like Ripley as a character and that she sure as shit hasn't had anything just handed to her. We appreciate her on a personal level so the whole 'And now here's a plot that works because she's female' fits perfectly.

Yea Forums tends to only like things where characters behave like heterosexual white men.

Don't aim to appeal to Yea Forums. Write what you want. You'll attract a better audience that way.

Don't make what they are more important than who they are unless it IS a part of who they are.

A black character shouldn't have the fact they're black brought up unless you're willing to tackle the issue of what that means in a meaningful and satisfying way. The same goes for gay, trans, etc. characters. It's not important unless you make it so, and if you do, be prepared to actually tackle that part of them.

The reason this tends to end shittily in comics, is because it's almost always transplanted onto an existing character with baggage and more interesting conflicts going on. The comic format doesn't really ALLOW you to tackle multiple complex issues at once unless you're an absolute genius, so either it feels like a character has left the rails to focus on a social issue, is underdeveloped in this new identity thrust on them, or is just poorly developed all around.

The ideal way to introduce diversity into comics would be to establish a new hero or villain who tackles issues like race or gender alongside simple conflicts on their own time, in their own stories, and then introduce them into other series after you've laid the groundwork and given them some characterization, but that's too much effort and too risky, so it will never happen.

>Yea Forums tends to only like things where characters behave like heterosexual white men.
You DENSE motherfucker.

>disabled
It's hardly a real disability when it literally makes you more capable. Even Darth Vader is more disabled than Toph.

You should not be conforming your work based on the opinions of Yea Forums

If you’re really concerned try to find an editor.

>Yea Forums tends to only like things where characters behave like heterosexual white men.

>If you don't act like a stereotype of your most basic traits, you're acting like a straight white male

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Fuck your bait thread, faggot

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I don't remember the marketing for Alien very well but Sigourney Weaver wasn't running around screaming "this movie is not for white men" every chance she had.

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>It's hardly a real disability when it literally makes you more capable.
We don't consider sickle cell anemia not a disease just because it stops you getting your back doors pounded in by malaria user.

Anyway, long story short - Tell a story, don't preach, don't wag your finger at your fans.
Mostly that last one, your fans are your buddies, they're your niggas and you gotta look out for the crew.

basically this and waifus

>Caring about what Yea Forums thinks
>caring about what any board thinks
That is your mistake right there

>She is Rey 2.0.

But Carol was made Captain Marvel in the comics long before Rey was introduced in the movies.

>What did Alien did "right" and Capital Marvel is doing wrong?
It was created in a less antagonistic/retarded time when the writers might have been SJW, but they were a hell of a lot better at hiding it.
>and nu-Star Wars
Incompetently written female leads combined with character assassination of the male ones.
>Captain Marvel
Yea Forums is sick of Marvel movies period.
>how the majority here dislikes those two things
The problem is there were a few too many "now they're gay" twists for brownie points ... for the rest Yea Forums are a bunch of degenerates who don't give a shit.

Personally I think you shouldn't portray homosexuality in children's media. Because homosexuality is not always innate, homosexual recruitment is real and homosexuality comes with a destructive lifestyle both for the kids and society. That's just /pol/ talking though, not Yea Forums.

That Carol was a different character

There's regular Yea Forums and Paul/tv/ infested Yea Forums. Learn the difference.
Just make a good fucking whatever the hell you're making. It will get you a fanbase somewhere. The rest doesn't matter.

Yeah because sickle cell anemia actually causes health issues even if it gives you an aids-proof poop chute.
A disability is literally the lack of an ability, and Toph is never hindered, quite the contrary. It's like thinking owning a rainbow flag makes you as gay as sucking cocks. It's flavor, not an actual character trait.

The movie looks like dogshit but Bitchface McFlatass never said that.

When you make a strong character who just happens to be a minority or woman then theres no issue. Theyre just a person. But in todays political/social climate strong characters are made to be minorities or women specifically. This just reinforces the mindset that theyre less than non-minoroties and need to be boosted up. Theyll never be equal or feel equal if you keep feeling the need to see them as victims and then save them by making them represent strong characters.

I think we have different standards of what a loser is

>What did Alien did "right" and nu-Star Wars and Capital Marvel is doing wrong?
It was made before the vast majority of Yea Forums was born. Why do you think characters like Storm and Rogue aren't shit on? Because they're what we grew up with.

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Obviously, my standard isn't "if you're a Chad polymath then you're a loser".

Not having the actress who plays the character and who plays maybe the biggest role in promoting the film be a completely insufferable cunt

Storm is kind of a shit character though. Design aside she doesn't have much going for her.

>With Ripley in Alien, the fact that she's a woman doesn't matter outside of the themes of motherhood
It's literally central to the movie and her actual character, retard. The fucking central computer is called mother.

Black Panther is sjw, Mile Morale isn’t.

Wonder Woman is sjw, Captain Marvel isn’t.

I think you're exaggerating his position. He was an awkward nerd.

wut. Weirdest comment I read today.

You got that second line backwards, buddy.

It’s simple: if you can’t turn a character into the opposite gender or a different race without heavily changing their story then they are sjw.

LOL, yes Yea Forums is fickle and no matter what you do Yea Forums will hate it.

What Alien did right with Ripley was a) be a GREAT movie, a classic and b) come out before most of us were even born.

If your creation is becomes such a classic that a generation later people are still talking about it then you'll have done it right next generation, but today no matter how good the work will be someone will be pissed off, even if they're pissed off just to be contrarian.

So, basically just write a really good story. And make certain all the girls have really big dicks, that'll make Yea Forums love it. or at least certain people from Yea Forums and isn't that what truly matters?

Awkward how? Do you get your knowledge from the Raimi movies or something?
And he was a nerd in the sense of good at science, he wasn't sitting in his corner organizing his MtG collection, he went to social events, was pretty smooth with the ladies, talked back and fought back his bully.

>Is there literally any way to write a minority characters without pissing off Yea Forums?
Sup

Also, people liked Spider-Verse well enough

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>Is there literally any way to write a minority characters without pissing off Yea Forums?
The very large majority of cartoons especially in the 90s and early 00s were full of racially diverse and important characters of both genders and nobody gave a shit.

Recess, Filmore, Kids next Door, hell this board fucking loves Kids next door

>What did Alien did "right" and nu-Star Wars and Capital Marvel is doing wrong?
Relatability. At least in terms of Alien. I haven't seen Captain Marvel yet. I'd like to note people have no problem with Scarlet Witch and really want her to get her own movie/mini-series

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I remember I had this neighbourhood in Sims 2 and later I remade it in Sims 3. Where I had a bunch of racially diverse characters. Hell, the mayor I made was black. And you know what the funny part is? I didn’t even think about having to make them racially diverse because it just happened. Heavy nostalgia right now. RIP my sims days and simpler days ;-;

>Here's the difference between when you write something and all of those films and shows. You're not going to make it their entire character. You're not going to have it as the main selling point on marketing. You're not going to forsake main character growth for last minute lesbian love stories. You're not going to replace a cishet white male with a minority with the same name to try and garner headlines.
I don't think any of that applies to Spider-Verse (I know Miles 'replaces' Peter but that's not the narrative behind the movie)

That's exactly what happens though. He's a minority character that couldn't support his own name so they gave him Spider-Man's.

I do wonder if, when Miles took over, they had never had Peter before him and he was the first Spider-Man of that universe whether people would have been so buttdevastated. I mean some people still would have been but I don't think anywhere near as many because it's a different universe, things change. Very few people care about Super-Obama in the DC multiverse for instance.

The Dragon Prince is airing right now. It is full of racially diverse characters and some (dead) lesbians showed up in the recent season. Now of course, there's going to be trolling and the like about these things but do you know why the majority of discussion of TDP is on lore, debates and fandom-jokes not just here but basically everywhere, compared to Steven Universe or Steven Universe which collapsed on itself?

It's because TDP focuses on being a story first and knows what it wants to do with it's characters as characters first and foremost and not pushing any kind of agenda. Now I'm not saying TDP is perfect or anything and I'm not saying outside sites don't like media playing that aspect of the show, I'm just saying what it does right

I'm sure I'll get drown out in the sea of voices.

Like a few other anons have suggested, make it a natural part of the character and show, don't tell. Additionally don't make a big show of it. Realistically it's not that big of a deal if a character is gay, or black, or whatever. Don't highlight or emphasize this in any way unless it's directly relevant to the plot, the characters, or an overarching theme.

When describing your gay character, make sure you can fully describe them without bringing up their sexuality or ethnicity at all. If you can do this, being gay is simply a part of their personality, rather than a core defining feature, and will serve to make them seem more nuanced and fleshed out as a whole, rather than a token character to fill some check boxes.

If there's not much beyond "She's a girl", or "He's gay and black", and these serve to facilitate their strengths, Yea Forums will pretty much hate it. Spiderman isn't a great hero because he fucks Mary Jane. He's a great hero because he represents an ideal selfless person, who puts the well being of others ahead of himself using extraordinary power. Not every character is a superhero, but try to find the two or three core personality traits that will make the character endearing.

>That's exactly what happens though. He's a minority character that couldn't support his own name so they gave him Spider-Man's.
Yes I know that's what happens in the original comic and I know that's what happens in the movie but you're not going to see articles spinning it's wheels about "FIRST BLACK SPIDER-MAN" (mainly because that happened already) for the movie, everything about this has been about how good it is for animation, how likable the characters are, how well the multi-verse concept works, how much people want to see the other Spider-gang more, etc.

I'm not saying that's the main takeaway from the film, I'm saying if people have a hang up about Miles being black that's why. I couldn't care less, every version of Spider-Man just gets on my nerves.

lol

Friendly reminder that nearly all the rage threads on Yea Forums are pure bait.

You're so close to the mark. Ripley is an example of using her gender to enhance the character/movie. You can do it; you just have to do it well.

Not him, and while that is true, in today's climate having the female character need to overcome any obstacles can easy be twisted by any random fuck into "oh but it's sexist though"

I don't remember Annihilation being considered sexist and that's basically the entire movie

I liked Annihilation too. But, it was pretty niche.
Anything that has a huge potential audience and large marketing campaign, you can bet that certain eyes will be going over it with a fine toothed comb to find anything sexist about it, context be damned. Same goes for the not-SJWs too with their usual bullshit

God, I wanted to tap that ting since season 1.
Too bad she's too old for the role now. Katee "Starbuck" Sackhoff though.

Stop worrying about about a loud fickle minority, nut up and write a good story. Because if they want to bitch they'll find any reason to do so no matter how hypocritical it makes them look. Gilbralter of Apex is a perfect example: you wouldnt know hes gay or bi just from observing him at all, you have to read his backstory for a throwaway line about his boyfriend, doesnt rant like an sjw or hit on any guys, but you have people still whining even though he fits the criteria at for what not to do.